Saint Louis Game Thread

[lhsgolf19]

Arch Baron Cup Part 2... Show them that the first OT "Close" Game was a fluke and take it to them this weekend. Billikens are reeling after losing by 14 at Chaifetz to Dambrot's Dukes.

Game is on Saturday Afternoon at 2 PM and will be shown on the CBS Sports Network.

Starting Lineup:
G 1 Yuri Collins 6’0” 175 FR St. Louis, MO
G 15 Demarius Jacobs 6’2” 175 SO Chicago, IL
G 0 Jordan Goodwin 6’3” 200 JR Centreville, IL
F 11 Hasahn French 6’7” 245 JR Middletown, NY
C 32 Jimmy Bell Jr. 6’10” 270 FR Saginaw, MI

Goodwin (15.0 PPG 10.5 RPG 2.9 APG) and French (12.2 PPG 11.0 RPG 2.7 BPG) lead the way... Javonte Perkins who comes off the bench is like a 6th starter, averages 13.5 a night.

Reminder they are awful from the Free Throw line, 58.3%.

Be strong on the glass and take care of the ball.

Get the job done! Go UD!

[maddog07]

I think Goodwin is the key. Shut him down and it’s all over quickly.
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[Radar]

From STL Post Dispatch:

“We told the guys what we have to do the next couple of games,” forward Hasahn French said. “The next game is against the sixth-ranked team, and we have to prove ourselves. You can’t just show up in this league.”

[Swampy Meadows]

A thread on Billikens.com:

“Crutcher Broke Our Season”:

https://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29228-crutcher-broke-our-season/
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[jack72]

A thread on Billikens.com:

“Crutcher Broke Our Season”:

https://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29228-crutcher-broke-our-season/
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Waaah!

[DGO67]

Don't you remember the days wishing for a break here and there, or a favorable draw, or hoping someone steps up with the best game of his life...to squeeze out a win?
Now all we ask is for no let-down!

[Swampy Meadows]

RushtheCourt.com on the SLU/UD matchup:

Will there be any lingering effects of the last match-up between Saint Louis and Dayton? (Saint Louis @ Dayton, Saturday, 2 PM EST, CBS Sports Network) First, Saint Louis led by 13 with 7:40 to go, then Dayton found itself up five with 1:59 left. Saint Louis tied it at the buzzer in regulation, but came up on the short end of the stick because of Jalen Crutcher’s overtime winner at the buzzer. The Billikens’ duo of Jordan Goodwin and Hasahn French combined to grab 12 offensive boards in the first match-up.

[Medford]

Torvik and Sagrain agree, UD by approx 15. I'll assume KenPom is similar, though I don't have access so if I'm wrong, please update. Not sure what the vegas line is, but probably in that range as well.


So how does Dayton turn a "by the hair of their chin" victory in St Louis into a beat down in Dayton and retain the ABC?



1st, we know SLU is going to win the rebounding battle, UD needs to win the TO battle again. Force SLU into 16+ turnovers while limiting the mistakes on their own end.


2nd, we know SLU is going to take far too many shots from the land of the lost (mid range jumpers), let them settle for those and pack the paint, SLU dominated in the paint the first time, they take far too many mid range shots, and like most teams, they aren't very good at them.


3rd, shot better than 10% from the land of plenty (3 pointers) in the first half. @ SLU is the only game this year where the Flyers failed to remain "in contact" with the other teams score. Down 13 with 7 and change to go is going to lead to a loss 98% of the time (WAG), typically if the flyers aren't out big early, they are within a few points either way before they tear off a big run and the other team can't keep up. See Duquesne (yeah I know the comeback) and VCU. hit 40% of those 3 pointers in the first half and a lead will be established.


4th, no dumb fouls early on. Need the team around 6 or 7 at the under 4 so they can take advantage of the "hack a french" defense and turn a 1-1 into a flyers position when he air balls the first one.

[Medford]

I think Goodwin is the key. Shut him down and it’s all over quickly.
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Tell Trey that Goodwin is from Centerville, OH, not Centreville IL; that should get his juices flowing :)

[Swampy Meadows]

SLU fans on Billikens.com are not exactly oozing with confidence about the UD game:

https://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29232-day-over-the-bills-by-15/

[Hobopotamus1]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why UD is a 15 point favorite and has a 90% chance of winning on KenPom? Obviously, I realize that this one's at home and that SLU is the worst FT shooting team in the country, but they did beat the snot out of us for 32 minutes. And it wasn't like our comeback was due to fantastic running of our offense: I think we hit 6 threes in a row.

I think we should be favored, but by this much?

In addition, this is SLU's last chance to salvage their season.

I just think if Collins can handle the pressure and noise in the Arena, we could have trouble. Just saying. I really hope I am completely wrong and we win by 167.

[Medford]

UD doesn't match up with well with SLU, that much I think any flyer fan will give you. SLU's strength is crashing the board and attacking the rim from the wing. UD's weakness is protecting the glass and keeping good physical guards out of the lane.


However, kenpom and others like it only care about the overall stats, no system is sophisticated enough to look at the details like a human can. They see UD as one of, if not the most efficient offenses in the country. They also see UD as a solid, if not great defense. SLU is also solid, if not great defensively, but horribly inefficient on offense. They get bogged down taking way too many mid-range shots and are not effective from 3.

[CE80]

SLU fans on Billikens.com are not exactly oozing with confidence about the UD game:

https://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29232-day-over-the-bills-by-15/

I’m really not too worried about the Billikens fans. It’s the team that is more of a concern.
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[frisco flyer]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/preview?gameId=401170281

[T-Bone 84]

I think SLU can gum-up our offense just enough to keep it close, but they don’t have the firepower to beat us on our home court. I predicted a 7 point win by our Flyers, and if the final margin is in double digits, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
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[Jeff]

I think we should be favored, but by this much?.

Turnovers and rebounds. We improve those two, and yes we can win by a dozen or so. Our guys have a week off, fresher legs. SLU’s coming off a disappointing loss at home to Duquesne. One of their players was quoted as saying “the locker room wasn’t good right now”.

I also think the team has something to prove to SLU today. They. Should be motivated.

[cj]

https://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29234-gdt-obi-floppin-and-the-boyz/
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[DGO67]

Hope blooms eternal! All the talk about who's motivated to do what flies out the window at tip-off. Pregame hype hasn't changed since the days of the gladiator.
Want to know who'll win?...ok, the better team for 40 minutes.
Go Flyers!

[CT Flyer]

As I said before the first ABC matchup they need to hold us to mid 60's to win, which they did last time. I have a hard time believing they can do it again and if we get any type of decent lead it will be over because then we will be able to dictate tempo at that point.

[BeckysTXA]

I’ve got Dish TV. I see they have Crutcher listed in the preview info in their guide.

“St Louis at Dayton from University of Dayton Arena. Junior Jalen Crutcher’s buzzer-beating three-pointer sent the Flyers past St Louis...”

Probably the first time a player from UD got their name in a TV guide???? I can’t remember seeing any player listed before for any team, but maybe. I wasn’t exactly looking for it. The fact that Crutch was listed caught my eye.

[BeckysTXA]

Less than 2 mins in we have more first half 3s than last time. And an Obi dunk for good measure.

[lhsgolf19]

8-6 UD with 15:35 left in the half

[jack72]

Good start, other than the brain farts by Chatman and Landers. Hope they let us run the whole game. It will be lights out.

[BeckysTXA]

At first tv timeout, I wonder how much running St Louis has done. We are pushing the pace.

[BeckysTXA]

Mikesell already has 6rebounds.

[Jeff]

Nice sequence for Jordy

[BeckysTXA]

Jordys playing great. It’s giving AG an option to sit Landers and Chatman with one foul early. Nice.

[lhsgolf19]

16-14 UD with 11:45 left

[Jeff]

Going to need a total game from Jordy. Ref's letting them play, so we need his physical presence.

[jack72]

Mikesell with more rebounds than the entire St L team.

[Jeff]

Good to see the pounding on the inside. Making SLU D play really hard

[Jeff]

Jordy being Mr. stud muffin

[lhsgolf19]

25-18 UD with 7:35 left

[frisco flyer]

Chimichanga is killing it. So good to see!

[jack72]

We are playing our second unit and still beating them.

[DGO67]

Went to a basketball and a dog fight broke out.

[lhsgolf19]

28-18 with 6:35 left

[frisco flyer]

Slowly but surely Chatman is emerging from his offensive slump.

[udx2]

10 point lead. Great seeing Jordy being a presence against SLU. We are going to wear SLU out. I hope.

[BeckysTXA]

5 mins left...push it to 15.

[lhsgolf19]

33-24 with 3:45 left

[Jeff]

3 fouls on their point guard

[Jeff]

3 fouls on their point guard

2 on French

[BeckysTXA]

Anyone remember the years we weren’t a good free throw shooting team? I’m starting to forget those years.

[Jeff]

Crap, our D takes a nap for the final 5 minutes

[BeckysTXA]

GREAT half by our 7-9 guys.

[lhsgolf19]

39-31 at the half

[udx2]

Wanted to build on that 10 point lead but will take it.

[Flyer1995]

Up 8...I’ll take itt!
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[jack72]

Only 5 assists. Jordy outplaying Landers.

[Jeff]

First half overreactions:

Took a 3 minute scoring break
Trey not very active

[CT Flyer]

I think SLU is going to be a handful next year...probably pre season favorites.

[Falcon7]

BS call!

[Jeff]

Mikesell putting a little more air under the 3 ball?

[CT Flyer]

Was just going to say the same about Mikesell.

[Jeff]

Yeeeesh FT's

[lhsgolf19]

44-40 with 15:30 left

[Jeff]

Need someone to pick it up for Crutcher....stryggling

[Falcon7]

Anyone remember the years we weren’t a good free throw shooting team? I’m starting to forget those years.

Is your memory coming back...

[Jeff]

French pulls one out of his...

[Falcon7]

Playing like crap...

[lhsgolf19]

48-47 UD with 11:05 left

[Jeff]

Just need to play some D.

[T-Bone 84]

WTH was that foul call on Jordy? From Section 215, it looked like he’s the one who got tackled.
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[Jeff]

Just need to play some D.

SLU shooting 60% this half

[Jeff]

WTH was that foul call on Jordy? From Section 215, it looked like he’s the one who got tackled.
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Could have gone either way. Arms wrapped up

[Jeff]

Getting manhandled on the boards in the 2nd half

[Jeff]

Terrible call. TV showed Bell clearly going over Jordy

[T-Bone 84]

Terrible call. TV showed Bell clearly going over Jordy

That’s what we at the Arena saw, too.
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[Falcon7]

Wow, got the call there

[redbengal]

How did Mikesell react in time? Impressive!
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[Jeff]

Go up 4 and start firing poor look 3's

[lhsgolf19]

53-51 UD with 6:50 left... Flyers ball

[frisco flyer]

Winning time.
Go Flyers!

[Jeff]

Another 3:30 scoring gap

[udx2]

Obi finally on the board this half.

[lhsgolf19]

57-52 with 5:55 left

[Jeff]

The "Our home is a powerhouse" ad is....


AWFUL

[udx2]

Don’t let them hang around. Yuri needs to foul out.

[Jeff]

Later Frenchy

[lhsgolf19]

61-56 with 3:12 left

[T-Bone 84]

WTH was that last sequence? Collins charges headfirst into 2 of our defenders, there’s a scrum on floor for the loose ball, and somehow Ibi gets whistled?
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[steve snyder]

Later Frenchy

Frenchy is toast!

[lhsgolf19]

65-58 with 1:40 left... SLU Ball

[Jeff]

Need to clamp down on Goodwin. No other option for SLU

[longtimefan67]

Crutcher...like Scooch before him is a magician
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[lhsgolf19]

65-60 with 1:32 left... UD Ball

[Jeff]

Need to clamp down on Goodwin. No other option for SLU

Goodwin has scored 6 straight.....how about a quick double team?

[Jeff]

Goodwin has scored 6 straight.....how about a quick double team?

9 straight

[Flyer1995]

Thank goodness we are in double bonus this time
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[redbengal]

Here we go again with Rodney...
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[Flyer1995]

GUSTY WIN! I don’t want to see these guys again
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[Jeff]

Exhale.....

[udx2]

Another W. SLU played tough.

Ready for the Toppin Family Feud on Tuesday.

[redbengal]

Bring on Rhody!
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[lhsgolf19]

71-65 Final

[Smitty10]

GUSTY WIN! I don’t want to see these guys again
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I hate playing SLU and have a hard time figuring out their issues. They play us and all of sudden they turn into shooting juggernauts. Yet they can't beat Davidson, lose to Duquesne twice, barely beat LaSalle, St. Joes and GW. Stomp on Richmond and gives us all we can handle twice.

[udx2]

I hate playing SLU and have a hard time figuring out their issues. They play us and all of sudden they turn into shooting juggernauts. Yet they can't beat Davidson, lose to Duquesne twice, barely beat LaSalle, St. Joes and GW. Stomp on Richmond and gives us all we can handle twice.

That target on our back is getting bigger and more important particularly for a team that would love a statement win to aid their post season aspiration.

[CT Flyer]

Not sure how SLU does it but they can get us to play at a snail's pace. Need to play a lot better to beat URI Tuesday.

[Smitty10]

Not sure how SLU does it but they can get us to play at a snail's pace. Need to play a lot better to beat URI Tuesday.

I'm beginning to think that Obi's first half dunks are loosening up the rim for the visiting team's 2nd half. Kidding.

Yep, and the main thing in this game more than any other is to not let off the gas. URI has been a great 2nd half team this season so if go into the 2nd half with any kind of lead, it's far from over.

[steverino015]

Not sure how SLU does it but they can get us to play at a snail's pace. Need to play a lot better to beat URI Tuesday.

we have matchup problems with
St Louis.. next year they will be
even tougher...

we held serve, that is the goal
just win...

Go Flyers!

[cj]

I thought Flyer fans complained about the refs, good Lord, SLU thinks there is a conspiracy out there.

SLU fans are the Xavier fans of years gone by. Easy to hate them after reading their message board game day thread.


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[jpk4ud]

Here we go again with Rodney...
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It's a D*mn good thing we had Rodney today. He and Crutcher won this game today for us. Between them they had 1TO...that is 1TO. Were 14-16 from the FT line. 26(17-9) points and Chatman only took 2 shots. In the last three mins or so they were 5-6 from the line.

[Smitty10]

I thought Flyer fans complained about the refs, good Lord, SLU thinks there is a conspiracy out there.

SLU fans are the Xavier fans of years gone by. Easy to hate them after reading their message board game day thread.


Posted via Mobile Device

The hypocrisy of our opposing fans. When we were getting clobbered along with no calls in St. Louis, while we were getting called on the other side of the court, well, yeah, that's the advantage of home cooking. When they perceive(I say perceive because I thought it overall wasn't a terribly called game and that they got the calls more than we did) the same thing happening at the Arena, it's a conspiracy.

[John C.]

Fans see what they want to see but they make us look like we never complain. 75% of their game thread was complaining about every play. Amazing. Sometimes you just have to admit that the refs are right.

[The Fly]

They're in meltdown mode over there:

-- They had to play us 8 (refs) on 5.

-- The refs were "protecting" Dayton because of our ranking.

-- The A-10 has mandated the refs ensure we keep our 2 seed.

-- Obi is soft and will be a failure into the NBA.

-- Obi gets away with moving screens on every half-court set.

-- They only lost because of the free throw disparity 10 of 16 to 20 of 27.

They seem to forget they MADE more free throws (20 of 37) then we even attempted in St. Louis. Were the refs protecting them?

What a bunch of whiners.

[Swampy Meadows]

IYRC, Rodney missed the front end of two 1 and 1s earlier in the season vs Colorado that denied us a potential 4 points and the game. At the time I said in the game thread that Chatman will learn from that experience and next time he’ll make em.

Today was the first of hopefully many games that he will come thru in the clutch
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[Swampy Meadows]

To illustrate my point, dude from UNC missed 3/4 FTs allowing Duke to tie the game and send it to OT.

Well done Rodney!
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[66flyer]

I didn't get to check the Billiken Whiners board till a few minutes ago due to watching my grandson play in 2 games (Kettering Y and Kettering Rec-won both) right after the UD game.
It amazes me that SLU fans are so clueless. Our guys got mugged time after time and no call on SLU, but BS calls on us. The worst one was when Jordy went up for a rebound, had the ball in his hands and 2 SLU players absolutely crushed him to the floor on his back and he got called for a foul.
I've had it with them and really hope we don't have to play them again.

[Chris R]

I guess they dont remember the officiating abomination from a couple weeks ago where Cohill was thrown to the ground, Mikesell was horse-collared, and the Bills were escorted to the charity stripe like a conga line while the Flyers couldnt buy a shooting foul despite driving to the basket at-will.

We've had to deal with atrocious refs for about the last 3 weeks of A10 basketball. The 3-mice circus in Pittsburgh was a true joy. They let Carry palm the ball about 8 times with impunity and called a walk on an Obi dunk that was textbook catch/stop/dribble. Remember the Trey Landers' foul on the screen at Richmond? Nobody has had more to complain about zebra wise of late than the Flyers.

It is what it is. Some teams find ways to get results in spite of the bad refs, others don't.

[T-Bone 84]

...Remember the Trey Landers' foul on the screen at Richmond?...

I will never forget the Trey Landers foul on the screen at Richmond. As bad a call as I can remember in my nearly 58 years on this planet.
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[Jeff]

Jordy's 5th foul would have been a 15 yd horse collar in the NFL. I've never seen it called on the guy that was tackled.

Until now.

[Go-UD-Go]

They're in meltdown mode over there:

-- They had to play us 8 (refs) on 5.

-- The refs were "protecting" Dayton because of our ranking.

-- The A-10 has mandated the refs ensure we keep our 2 seed.

-- Obi is soft and will be a failure into the NBA.

-- Obi gets away with moving screens on every half-court set.

-- They only lost because of the free throw disparity 10 of 16 to 20 of 27.

They seem to forget they MADE more free throws (20 of 37) then we even attempted in St. Louis. Were the refs protecting them?

What a bunch of whiners.

Everybody thinks the refs are stacked against them. It is true on every A10 board I read. (even ours).

What was good from their board was a true fear of playing the Flyers. Most thought they were doomed before the game began. Many thought once they were down by 10 that the ass-whipping was about to begin. After being in this game and nearly winning the last one, they now think that they match up will with us and would like to see us in the A10 tourney. (But not Duquesne!)

[Smitty10]

Everybody thinks the refs are stacked against them. It is true on every A10 board I read. (even ours).

What was good from their board was a true fear of playing the Flyers. Most thought they were doomed before the game began. Many thought once they were down by 10 that the ass-whipping was about to begin. After being in this game and nearly winning the last one, they now think that they match up will with us and would like to see us in the A10 tourney. (But not Duquesne!)

Until we're up by 30, I'm pretty certain it's going to be a close game. They obviously haven't watched us much this season. Our pattern has been get up by 20 and then let them make us sweat for awhile. The biggest anomaly, and probably the most important game of the season when all is said and done, was when we played at SLU and couldn't do anything right until the final 7 minutes.

[maddog07]

To illustrate my point, dude from UNC missed 3/4 FTs allowing Duke to tie the game and send it to OT.

Well done Rodney!
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Would be nice if he’d throw in an occasional assist!
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[steverino015]

Would be nice if he’d throw in an occasional assist!
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would be nicer if you threw in
an occasional "good job Rodney,
keep it up"...

he could get 4 assists next game,
and you would find something...

but then you aren't so much a mad dog,
as you are a whining puppy...

Go Flyers!

[Medford]

Torvik and Sagrain agree, UD by approx 15. I'll assume KenPom is similar, though I don't have access so if I'm wrong, please update. Not sure what the vegas line is, but probably in that range as well.


So how does Dayton turn a "by the hair of their chin" victory in St Louis into a beat down in Dayton and retain the ABC?



1st, we know SLU is going to win the rebounding battle, UD needs to win the TO battle again. Force SLU into 16+ turnovers while limiting the mistakes on their own end.


2nd, we know SLU is going to take far too many shots from the land of the lost (mid range jumpers), let them settle for those and pack the paint, SLU dominated in the paint the first time, they take far too many mid range shots, and like most teams, they aren't very good at them.


3rd, shot better than 10% from the land of plenty (3 pointers) in the first half. @ SLU is the only game this year where the Flyers failed to remain "in contact" with the other teams score. Down 13 with 7 and change to go is going to lead to a loss 98% of the time (WAG), typically if the flyers aren't out big early, they are within a few points either way before they tear off a big run and the other team can't keep up. See Duquesne (yeah I know the comeback) and VCU. hit 40% of those 3 pointers in the first half and a lead will be established.


4th, no dumb fouls early on. Need the team around 6 or 7 at the under 4 so they can take advantage of the "hack a french" defense and turn a 1-1 into a flyers position when he air balls the first one.


1) SLU won the rebounding battle, as expected, but not as badly as I think many of us feared. however, UD only forced them into 13 TO rather than the 16+ I was looking for


2) As expected, SLU took far too many mid range jumpers as they are prone to do....however they hit those mid range jumpers at a great rate. Credit to them, seems like UD did a fairly good job of protecting the paint and SLU took what was given to them.


3) UD hit better than 10% from 3 point land in the first half, established a decent lead, but overall shot poorly from long range (just under 30%) which prevented them from extending that lead in the 2nd half to a comfortable margin.


4) Never felt like there were any dumb fouls, certainly not a bunch, however SLU hit their free throws at an excellent rate; UD's free throw defense wasn't very good :)


Overall, great game to watch, UD could have played better, I'm not sure SLU could have played much better other than limiting the fouls a bit. Great to see Chatman bouncing back, seems like he's on the upswing hopefully he'll be in Mauii form by the postseason. Jordy had a couple of solid stretches, as noted he's going to be needed for an NCAA run. I still don't get how he's pulled backwards over the SLU players and picks up his 5th foul. I wonder how many of the SLU fans complaining that UD shot 11 more free throws (including 8 of them in the last 1:05) than SLU were complaining when SLU shot 18 more than the Flyers in the prior game. I'll safely assume NONE.