Golden Our Bench Sucks Award...at UMass
 

Our starters need help. Anyone out there??

So who really, really sucked today...couple of obvious choices but let's have fun voting!

UGH!

King Rollo the Frustrated...OUT!

The A10 is a joke. We lost because there's only one camera angle at that game.

Anyone who blames this on AG is just a hater

Voted "bench", If we had a bench, then maybe DD isn't out there long enough to miss 3/4 of his shots.

Not subbing for the entire 2nd half and two overtimes is a tad ridiculous

Who are you going to put into the game? John Crosby for Darrell Davis?

Any one of our five scholarship players on the bench. Just need to steal minutes to keep the starters fresh.

Shocked we are getting NOTHING out of Kostas and Svoboda this late in the season. They were wild cards for sure - but we got much more out of Bobby Wehrli
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Not shocked. Just very limited talent

I’d say I am more surprised by what little X has given us. I had no expectations for Matej, and I am close to concluding that the hype surrounding Kostas seems to have bordered on the absurd.

X was given 4 minutes off the bench and Kostas 3 and the one who's contributed almost nothing gets the rest of the bench minutes. I'm not going to blame the starters for losing this game in the 2nd overtime, they shouldn't have had to play that many minutes. And I'm not going to blame the 2 guys who gave us a total of 7 minutes in the first half only. And I can't blame the guy who has given us no reason for any expectations and got the bulk of the bench minutes. Does that leave anyone to blame? I wont' go any further, not feeling like getting attacked today.

Not attacking you, but, what has either X or Kostas done for any period up to this point that leads you to believe they could have helped our situation today? Neither scores with any regularity, both are awful in defending drives to the basket, and if you put ether on Hines, he pins them low and drops that baby hook over their heads.

How about the 13-22 from the FT line...Can't shoot 59% in a close game and win

No doubt.

You have to go with what you got to get the starters some rest. I can't say with 100 percent certainty but I believe the starters would've had more quality play for the end if they had some more reasonable breathers. There are reasons that starters spend some time on the bench besides foul trouble and that's because you get their maximum game when they aren't tired. I'll use baseball as a comparable example. You are stuck with a relief pitcher with 9.00 era on your roster. You still have to use him because in baseball you have to use everyone on your roster. In college basketball you don't have to use 100 percent of your roster in one game, but you certainly have to use about 80 percent your non-walkons whether they've contributed much in the recent past or not.

You might come back with "but we were down too many points to chance it." I say to that "but it was the starters who put us in that position and they were given a chance to redeem themselves, so should your bench, from game to game to game. You have to use your roster. If they cause you to lose, you have a losing roster but you play it out.

Crosby, Kostas, and X/Svoboda were out there in the first half with J Davis and Landers. If you have no faith in the bench, why are you putting them out there at the same time with our 3 leading scorers in conference play on the bench? It's not setting anyone up for success.

Smitty, for once I agree with you; and based on what I've seen from what should be a solid bench, Westerfield should have been on the court today because A) He can hit foul shots, B) He has a polished 3 point shot C) He plays defense at least as well as the "bench" and D) He actually wants to play...

Step up
 

You find out who is going to step up. There is no reason to defer to anyone.
It's a setup to find out who is going to attack the boards rather than standing around watching Cunningham work.
It's a setup to find out who is going to be a leader. Trey and Jordan are young. Can a junior, besides Cunningham, please show some leadership? Can someone besides Crutcher or BabyD get the offense into motion?
In my opinion, AG is setting up many opportunities to be successful with that line up. Unfortunately, individuals seem to lack the talent or mental toughness to seize the opportunity.
My opinion.

I have a theory for the game today. That theory is both teams were gassed in OT. I think sending X in might have been the way to go because he is now a fresh player who might turn out to be the best player on the court due to everyone else being gassed. While I'm not going to argue he's not the same X as last season, I will argue that in this situation he might have been more energetic than anyone else on the court including UMass players and would've resulted in more rebounds and maybe even a better 3 point shot. Not saying we should've waited for OT to get him more minutes in the first place but since we didn't give any worthwhile minutes, why not?

Williams has to be hurt. That's the only reason I can think of that he didn't play.

This has to be like Landers or Mikesell where they announce the injury after the season

X
 

This is a failed season for X. We'll all have to stay tuned to find out why.

I voted for DD because you expect more from your senior than poor shooting, poor defense, and turnovers. But the bench would be a close second. Have we ever had a game where the bench played so little and contributed nothing?

Guys, XW has to be hurting. Somethings up clearly up. J Davis has hit the freshman wall. Crosby just cant get out of his own way. I suspect the staff keeps throwing him out there to see if "the light will go off", and there's no power to it. There has to be a way to build Kostas minutes. He's playing like a freshman. But they need to manage his time up while not letting him fall into bad habits.

Add it up, you've got six guys, three of which are freshman.

How about a golden too many missed free thtows award. Ugh.

I just find it funny that anybody is voting on the bench. How can you blame the group that got only 8 percent of the minutes and that got us our only two blocked shots, 10 percent of our rebounds, and only one turnover? Is it that they didn't shoot enough(only two FGA)?

If they didn't stink, they would get more minutes.

We don't need the bench guys to step up and be the guy. Landers scored a career high and none of those were with that lineup on the court. He's not ready to be the guy, but with the right lineup he can have big impact. X had huge impact on last years team and was the 5th option on the floor most times. It's ok to let them be role players.

Maybe, but I look at this as an in game voting. We're not voting because of effects leftover from previous game and practice. So if they don't get a chance within game, it seems pointless to blame them for a loss. If we had a poll for the overall season, the bench makes sense to vote for, or a game where they were called upon but failed. But a game they don't get a chance? Seems to go against what Rolllo's poll is all about.

but if they are not remotely good enough to get "in the game", that counts big time... my goodness, what did Kostas do during his redshirt year, he was not injured the entire time...other than Trey and Josh, the other starters were 5 for 22 fg's, and the starters were 5 for 26 from 3 pt...Crutch had 9 assists and 1 turnover, Sir Trey and Josh over 20 pts apiece - great effort by those 3... that's it

I guess with that logic the bench should be voted on for every game we lose the rest of the season because if they're not good enough to get in the game now, why the next game or the next or the next? Heck, why were 3 players good enough to get 3 minutes or more the first 20 minutes but not the next 30? Again, if you can't blame a starter, and I can't blame the bench, there's only only entity left but again, I'll stop now.

you are correct sir - yes yes and yes, each and every game the bench has some blame absolutely! now then - was it Coach Grant who was 5 for 22 fgs? was it Coach Grant who was 5 for 26 from 3 pt range? i am surprised it was even as close as it was.. but Coach Grant is not blameless, this is an away game, and I am so tired of our under performing away, how we can be so different away than at home.. I think I am going to do some research and get some figures for the team and each player, home and away.. it is not just one entity, several issues here, some on the Coach but plenty to spread around...

Everything I witnessed today reinforced my opinion that those seeing very little playing time deserved very little playing time.

Exception is Xeyrius. I think the boy is hurtin' physically. Hasnt been right all season.

Not every game is going to be double OT, but realistically, can these guys continue to log these minutes without risking injury?

That question also popped into my head. It seems that it has come time for us to accept that we have a team that's not good enough to win consistently and that putting all focus on the game at hand and not on the season and future as a whole should be scrapped. Fatigue can cause many negative carryovers and injury is tops on the list. Things like burnout and bad lazy habits and loss of confidence follow on that list.

Yes Trey/Josh/Darrell/Jordan/Jalen, I realize that you're spent, hurting, can't muster up enough strength to shoot a free throw let alone a three pointer, and gasping for air, but those other guys just don't deserve to play. Sorry.

I think the bench is getting the minutes they deserve unfortunately. X is a mystery because before the season began, I felt that not only would he be key with Josh, he might be the man. I can't ever remember a player seemingly regress like this from one year to the next.
I suspect AG is playing the 5 he feels gives the best chance for winning AND I also think that same 4/5 is the core of next year and that's also part of the plan. MJ playing over Crosby at the end speaks volumes to me. Someone earlier mentioned that "Grant is doing what his college coach did (DD) - play the best 5-7 players". Yep, seems like another UD coach recently did that and was successful for one year full of bad luck. That seemed to work out ok...

I think are right, because he was really emerging as a very good player last year. Go back and watch the tournament games from last year. I was truly expecting 15 points/8 rebounds per game from him this year. What do you have now...essentially nothing. Add in a seasonal loss to Mikesell and a never-improving John Crosby (who I had higher expectations for this year) and you get where the Flyers are today. There is a reason Anthony Grant played his starters for virtually the entire game - his bench players are not capable of competing at the D-1 level.

I assume you're talking about 2014-2015. But that coach had to make adjustments in cutting down on practice, focusing on not fouling, and resorting to making our freshman who had other qualities coming out as a 3 to 4 star recruit shooting guard, a 3 point specialist and backup PG.

If AG is making similar adjustments, okay, but I seriously doubt it. The college game is so much different now than it was with Donoher, with the biggest change to the pace of the game being the shot clock that playing just 5-7 players(when you don't have to like AM did in 2014-2015), it makes no sense to try IMO.

Steverino: I think you will find that Darrell's game is very good at home and very poor on the road...same for Jordan Davis.

Let me be clear, I'm not blaming AG for the way the players that did play, played(at least until they were gassed). I'm blaming him for not giving the bench enough minutes or to be more direct, not giving the starters enough breathers.

I don't like the direction it seems like Kostas is moving in. Not playing in the 2nd half & OTs isn't a good sign.
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I do not think I have ever seen something like this in all of my years of watching college basketball. This is extremely rare.

A thanks to all who commented on various threads on today's game. Between listening to it on radio and reading your collective comments I've had my eyes opened. We just don't have the team to get over the hump- not even close, and it's not because of a crazy half court heave that was lucky to win the game for UMASS.

All the optimism I had has largely vanished today- not that I'm disappointed in the players- I love their hustle & will continue to root them on (including being at that inevitable A-10T Wednesday game in D.C.). Virtually none of the pieces that I had honestly hoped would gel have not. The notable exception being Baby D who has been fantastic this year rising to the occasion as a leader- though not perfect. I never saw this happening and am so happy for him.

Coach Grant knew before any of us the monumental challenge he had, which explains his experimenting with match-ups, substitution pattern and even offensive and defensive schemes. I think he's exactly what our program needs today - someone who has the potential to quickly bring in top flight talent. I agree as an in-game bench coach and player development coach he has yet to prove himself. But we need to give him that chance and tone down the BS emotional criticism that we've all seen. Especially now when it has become clear to even novices like me the challenges he's been facing all year.

I'm excited to think we may have some open 'ships next year and look forward to see how this coaching staff does in the next 1-2 years.

I know the feeling well. Lol.

I think I figured it out. When we give our bench some meaningful minutes, AG doesn't feel the need to use any timeouts because the players don't need rested. We jump on him for not using timeouts so he takes that to mean not using his bench and using timeouts. Apparently, for AG, timeouts are only used to give needed breathers.

We really don't have a roster Smitty. Outside of Crutcher, these are all AM recruits. Love AM, built the program back up, but gosh, low talent.
Give AG a chance to recruit.

Your response to my post must have been a mistake and meant for another post because nowhere did I say I'm not giving him a chance. What I'm saying is play who you have. He has players, quite a few of them. Running 5 of them out there for 90 percent of a 50 minute game is unnecessary. What did it gain? A double OT loss. He has a losing roster, play with what you have. Not using your 4 bench players for more than 8 percent of the game is ridiculous. Yes, they might not be good enough to win the game, but hey, we didn't win anyway and we're going nowhere regardless.

I'm starting to think that he's trying to drive these players to transfer to ensure he can fill it next season with more of his recruits. If he succeeds, I really hope that Kostas goes to Indiana. I'd love to see what his recruiting coach could do for him if he leaves.

And if AG put the bench players in and we fell behind by 20 points this forum would go crazy! AG sucks, AG should never have put in Kostas, Crosby etc
This board is becoming tiresome..

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? AG's job is not to coach to prevent criticism. It's not to cover his butt from criticism. Part of his job is to coach a team sensibly not desperately. Not using your bench in what is basically a fairly meaningless game at this point in a 50 minute game reeks of desperation. As far as I'm concerned especially this year, once you give up on your whole bench, you've given up on the season so what's the point?

actually, I can see an area where I can agree with you on, but not for the same reasoning...not giving up on the bench - if we are going to even consider doing something in the A10 tournament - if we want to be something more than a 1 and done, then we simply MUST have a bench.. yes, there will be a learning curve and some games will look dreadful, but haven't we already had games like that? we may lose by 20, but we have to get some minutes for Kostas and Svoboda, I agree... and X too - if he has some injury than that is different..

so, i think I see myself reluctantly agreeing.. Holy sxxt, I can't even begin to fathom the results but yes - we have to give our bench more minutes and I don't care how bad they are/inexperienced they are/slow to responding they are... peeps, I agree with Smitty - we gotta put em in.... if they are not injured, we gotta put them in... can't believe I just typed that and not deleting....

get in kostas and svoboda's faces and say "I believe in you. I need the players I saw on tape"... put them in, design some plays for them... coach them and don't just have them ride the bench... wow...

I actually don't see where our reasoning is different. Yes, this started with my looking at just this game in particular but it evolved to the whole season. And yes, kind of funny, if you give up on your bench, you give up on the season, so why not play the bench? If you don't give up on your bench, well you play them anyway.

So yes, we're on the same page here, you just expanded it to the A10 tournament which at this point is the only really meaningful games we have left. So if you feel your bench isn't good enough to play today against one of the bottom teams in the conference, what would you hope to accomplish come March? They certainly aren't going to improve by then while getting 3 minutes a game.

Perhaps the coaching mistake was playing the bench at all b/c they were the ones giving up. When players come off the bench and in the first 30 seconds on the court repeatedly get torched for driving layups at the top of the key or cough the ball up -- they've lost all editorial license to make a case for themselves for more PT.

At what point does the inexcusable become intolerable? I think AG is giving us a hint. Whether that's a good coaching tactic moving forward in building a program or a short-sighted one -- I have no idea. Over the next 3-4 seasons I will find out.

There is no such thing as punishing a player with more playing time. Both teams were gassed. Both benches were useless. The guys we rolled with were rewarded by staying out on the court. As tired as they were it was also the ultimate coaching compliment. Any athlete worth his/her salt wouldnt digest it any other way or have it any other way.

Oh boy. So now we have 4 problem players. Maybe five if Svoboda is part of it. I'm going to be attacked on this one for sure, but when half your team isn't listening, hustling, etc... to the point you are cementing them all to the bench, I think it's time to look in the mirror. One or two problems creep into a program occasionally but this is ridiculous. Either he's causing this dissension or he's not handling it properly. I don't care if they're his recruits or not. He talked to them in the offseason and from the results, all of them bought in so he should be thankful for that and can't say they resent him because he's not AM. Yes there was a hiccup with Crosby but that was supposedly settled. If now they're all turning their backs on the coach by not playing for or listening to him, there was a huge disconnect between what presented to them and what he actually did with them.

I don't remember this ever happening with the Flyers previously and cannot accept that this is one of those flukes where our very successful former coach who never found himself down to so few of active players because they were all loafing happened to leave 3 recruits and 2 juniors that happen to have that kind of character flaw.

You're getting real close to the point of saying "They're all a bunch of loafers that won't listen to the coach and it's not the coaches fault." Try explaining to your boss that's why you can't meet goals, because half your staff won't listen to you. Yeah, that would go over real well for you.

Josh Cunningham
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You are right Smitty its not the coaches job to coach to avoid criticism, its his job to put the best possible players on the court to win the game. Is that so hard for you to understand.

Why are you even following the flyers this year, it was known well before the season started we didn't have a true pt guard or decent backcourt. I believe the backcourt is developing but Kostas Pierce and Williams are a detriment to the team. Kostas hasn't developed from his redshirt year. Pierce has no real interest to be on the team. Williams from what the docs have said is okay. Svoboda was expected to be the deep threat.

Bady D is playing hard but not always smart. Not the go to man we need down the road.

Unfortunately we are what we are and AG has what he has to work with and it ain't much.

Results from the bench speak for themselves.

Does Matt McCall have a better roster than AG?
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Starters should've been well rested, it took like an hour to play two overtimes with all the video reviews in this game.

Reiterating the best post in this thread.

Blame the guys who did not play enough, blame the guys cause they are not good enough to play more, blame the coach for not enough timeouts, blame the coach for substitutions, blame the coach for not enough substitutions, blame the offense, blame the defense.

Sounds like a sub .500 team with a boat load of frustration by all of us who are used to winning. Probably all of those above and several more, like talent, inexperience and bad luck. No silver bullets here.

His job is to win the game. Is playing your best players without subbing for 30+ minutes of gametime the best method to win the game? I think we would see a lot more coaches sticking with their starting five for 40 minutes if it was. Your best players don't play at their best when they are fatigued.

Playing the same guys 30 minutes straight seems penny wise and pound foolish.

LeBron and Curry don't play every minute of any game, including the playoffs, despite the logic that says it gives their team the best chance to win since they're the best players on the planet. Because even sending in players significantly worse is better than trying to play every minute.

No matter how bad Crosby is, he has to play a couple minutes here and there. That's not punishing them with playing time it's reducing the playing time to the absolute minimum and saying "minutes won't go up unless you earn them." Or play the walk-ons. Whatever.

But the relevant question is, at what fatigue point do your best players become less than your bench players at full strength? Granted, the coach needs to balance fatigue vs. performance over the course of an entire season, but how often have you heard someone say “Our star player at 50% is better than his replacement at 100%”? Yesterday, Grant decided that a fatigued Crutcher was > a rested Crosby, and that a fatigued Cunningham > a rested Antetokounmpo.

Was it the right decision? Well, we lost, but we took them into double overtime, and if we had more than 3 guys contributing, we’d have won in regulation. And Cunningham and Crutcher were 2 of the 3 who played well enough to win.

You may now resume your regularly scheduled second guessing.
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Definitely second guessing all the way, but what else are we here for??

I think the question is: are our recruits really so bad that they can't compete with .... UMass?! For 2 or 3 minutes? Good golly I hope not.

So would that have allowed Crutcher to be at 80% instead of 50% and we win easily?

I don’t like to be that kind of fan, but he frustrates me so badly, I’ll say it:

50% of Crutcher > 100% of Crosby.

I try not to criticize individual players too much, but I think I can dribble better than Crosby (and Bucky’s brother, who was my junior high PE teacher, made me the first player cut from the 7th & 8th grade BBall teams - deservedly so). That “I’m going to dribble so the ball reaches my armpit”’cr@p has really worn thin on me.
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I would give a few assistant coaches whiffle ball bats and follow him around in practice. Every time the ball comes above his waist I would whack the shizznit out of him with the bats. I don't get it, what is he doing?!

Why does X get a pass in the criticism. The excuse is that he must be hurting since we know he is really really good. The basis for this opinion is that he was good last year therefore it must be he is hurt. Also it does not hurt that he is a hometown product.

I for one was unimpressed with X's performance last year. He was good at times but for as many of those times that he was good he was bad twice as much. His entry in the game last year meant the defense went sour and the other team usually outscored the Flyers despite X ability to hit the three point shot.

We could chalk this off to X being a sophomore and with another year under his belt the flaws in his game would begin to disappear and only the good would remain. But the flaws have not disappeared. He is either unwilling or unable to rebound the basketball and he is either unwilling or unable to put the ball on the floor and take it inside for the easy two and he is either unwilling or unable to concentrate on defense to prevent his man from scoring at will and having his way with him under the boards.

He still has a decent three point shot especially for a big man. And at Six foot Eight and his speed he is a big man not a guard. But a big man is expected to bring big man skills with him aka Cunningham and the three point shot is gravy not the meat of what a big man is expected to bring to the game.

X is an open floor guy. He has never been a back to basket/stud rebounder. I watched a bit of MSU / IU the other day. Their 6-8/6-9 guys have signficantly more muscle than X does, even more than Josh. So when they put a body on someone, it stays on someone. X just doesn't have the strength to play inside. I wouldn't have a problem with him being on the wing if we had someone else down low. Maybe Toppin can be that guy next year but I don't know what his weight/strength is at this point.

If it's "winning time" at the end of regulation/overtime, absolutely I would agree with that line of thinking. It's the other stretches of the game where the bench can steal some minutes to keep the starters fresh for that final stretch. The gap between Scoochie and Crosby was even greater last year, but Crosby was able to steal enough minutes to keep Scoochie fresh at the end. I don't believe Scoochie would have been as clutch if he played the entire game.

I agree. Without getting into any problems with our guards, our big guys sort of sum up the problems of this roster. We have an undersized center, and undersized power forward, and X, who is cannot play either, nor is he an adequate small forward or wing. At least Cunningham and Landers have worked their tales off to be the best they can be. X has stayed stagnant in the weight room and on the court. Unless this speculated injury is real and severe, and has handicapped him for the last 18 months, he has not put in the work.

Had a lead at Duquesne, SLU and when he had to go to the bench it quickly went south. Put Crosby in a he shot an airball on the break and made a turnover. Notice Svoboda was isolated and UMass went one-on-one with their ex walk on and made a layup.

Had one of the starting 5 fouled out, would Grant have replaced them or just finished OT playing 5-on-4...which - talent wise - may have been a better option. :eek:

Crosby only spelled Scoochie for a few minutes in the 1st half of games, unless Scooch got into foul trouble in 2nd half. Scoochie almost always stayed in the entire 2nd half of games. There have been multiple times this year at the Arena people around me have been saying "you just can't put Crosby into games." Hard to disagree with that assessment in my opinion...

Is there a way to objectively measure weather XW gave up more points while he was on the floor last year than he accounted for? Something like a . . . + for the points scored while he's on the court and a - for the points given up?

I feel like there's a lot of revisionist history going on around here.

I came into this thread not expecting a decent debate on playing time/bench. Pretty good discussion with limited name calling or crazy reactions.

I think I am leaning toward Smitty's view that we have to get some play for the bench. Not because of the individual game, but for the A10 Tournament, the future, and limiting the risk of injury.

If I were AG, I would look at my bench and consider who I need next year (Maybe Kostas and X (depending on his injury status)) and I would be very clear with them before the next game. "You are coming in for 4 minutes at the 12 minute mark of the first half. I need you to play D (nothing easy in your area), rebound hard (2 rebounds, in the fight for several), and not turn the ball over. If you do that, you will get 8 minutes in the 2nd half"

Who knows, maybe he does exactly this, but I would set a specific expectation and path for more playing time. Then, it is up to the player. So much of this is about desire.

I said this in an earlier post and don't think it's that far out there that it's beyond the realm of what's happening: I'm starting to think that he's trying to drive these players to transfer to ensure he can fill it next season with more of his recruits.

So Pierce/J. Davis/Svoboda/Kostas (3), Landers/Mikesell(2), Cunningham/Williams/Crosby(1) That's a total of 19 seasons of AM's players for AG's 2nd season-4th seasons. I'm realizing that just might be a bit too much to ask of a new coach that wants to install his system. AM's classes of 1(Trey and Baby D) and classes of 4 (Cunningham, Mikesell,Crosby, Williams) and (Pierce/J. Davis/Svoboda/Kostas) worked for AM but might just be too much for a new coach to want to play out the string with.

As was discussed in another thread, UD will not pull scholarships for performance and certainly not for a change in coaches so maybe this is AG's way of reinforcing the point that some of these players need to choose to move on. It's cold yes, he needed them to fill a roster this season, but he no longer needs them after this.

I'm starting to think there's no other way unless the University, the coaches and the fans want a 4 year gradual rebuild and after the success we just experienced, I doubt any do.

So let's say he's evaluated and the only players he wants of AMs is Cunningham J. Davis, Landers and Mikesell(has to give him chance right?). And with Toppin and Cohill coming in plus Crutcher, that's 7 players plus a few more of his own recruits next year. Maybe one more of AM's players stay (Kostas Williams or Svoboda). He's got a team next season and sped up the process of turning over the roster.

Makes sense to me.

Smitty, spot on post.The coaches (all of them) have been out on the trail every week. More so than some in the program have ever seen during the season. We have made a lot of offers and they are far and wide. There is NO rebuild in Anthonys mind. With roster change they feel they can compete and win the ATEN as soon as next year. His style of play is pressure and playing his bench. So what we are seeing is no accident or poor coaching, he will take this group as far as it wants to go but the player evaluation clearly is done. A couple will get a chance with a great summer to get back in the mix, but I bet we see 3 id not 4 new players next year. Pierce once gain did not make the trip.

I have to think that both Archie and Anthony have done everything short of "go Bob Knight" on the kid, and he still doesn't get it. I thought he had fixed that flaw when I saw him play before the new year began, but then at the last home game, I saw him do it again. The ball was so high, he could practically have licked the d@mned thing! Makes me wonder what Archie and his staff saw in him, that he doesn't possess such a basic PG skill as how to control your dribble like a D-I player.

And it goes back to an opinion I've voiced more recently: it seems Archie was more focused from 2015-17 on "winning games now" than "developing players for the long haul". Crosby's lack of development, DD's finally coming out of the shadows this year, and Landers's limited playing time last year (and I know Landers was hurt for part of that time, but...) only reinforces my belief in that statement.

Figgie? Player-by-player +/- for the 2016-17 season?

Landers did foul out in the second OT, and Grant put in Svoboda. Interesting he put in Svoboda, and not Kostas, but then he was not a good matchup with UMass.

Wouldn't it be nice if Kostas put in the time in the weight room and made a commitment to himself to improve his game enough that Grant wouldn't even have to think twice about matchup problems and feel free to sub him in whenever necessary!

With Svoboda, I hope he stays because even with all the adjustments he has had to make being thousands of miles away from home I have seen where he at least follows AG's instructions (not taking so many 3 pointers lately like earlier in the season) and becoming a better passer and facilitator. The same cannot be said of some of the other bench players!

Look at the X at the end of the St. Mary's game where he couldn't figure out what he wanted to do with the ball to the Rhode Island game there was some real development.

Look at the numbers in A10 play last year especially towards the end. He was a much better player at the beginning of the year and look at his rebounding stats. He average nearly 5 boards a game last year and I suspect his A10 stats for rebounding are higher

In today's basketball a big guy who can stretch the floor is advantage

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...yrius-williams

Toppin looks to me from having seen him on the bench still looks pretty thin to me

Possible but he could also just have a conversation with those guys after the season. Ralph Hill and Stephen Thomas got it, I'm sure AG could do the same. Players for the most part don't want to sit the bench and I'm sure someone between a conversation and say having a Soph. PG getting major minutes and offers going out to a newcomer being brought in at PG see the writing on the wall for their playing time

It's more likely that Crosby couldn't be developed. It's not realistic that Archie would just ignore a guy in practice and not want more bench help. Landers very well could have developed in practice last year

Winning games now and development aren't mutually exclusive. Pollard didn't get much playing time as a frosh but somehow played well as a Soph.

Benson...Dillard...Scott...Robinson...

They created a ton of problems. Internal cancers that created division on the team and off court antics weren't desirable. Two upperclassmen that took two idiots under their wing.

Was the behavior of these 4 Archie's doing? Or was it their own.

Just because there are problem players, or players not meeting expectations, doesn't mean a coach needs to change his tune. If you see this happen over a period of time, then yes...but not this early in a tenure. No way, no how.

Regarding scholarships...yes...they will be renewed for any kid that isn't a behavior problem. But athletes aren't going to stick around on scholly, just to stick around. If they aren't getting PT, they will move along.

I think we had another internal cancer as well, but the last time I mentioned who I got Cooke(d) on this board.

I see all your points, OSU. Maybe Archie recruited Crosby thinking he could develop him, and once Crosby got here he simply didn’t allow himself to be coached-up. That would explain all the minutes Scoochie logged down the stretch last year (possibly Archie’s way of telling Crosby “Fine. You don’t want to listen to your coaches? Then I’ll only play you as much as I have to, to keep Scoochie fresh.”).
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Crosby might have been a desperation signing. AM planned on having Khari Price up through Crosby's freshman season. He must have had a hard time finding the PG he wanted and settled on what turned out to be major project.

I am not stating this is the case with any one player, but this is the way it goes.

Players that haven't bought in to what AG is selling...their roles change.

Players that conflict, maybe with attitude or effort....their roles change.

AG has had this entire season to get an idea of what to expect out of players and this was their initial tryout. Now he is telling them what their future is via priority on the floor.

He is playing the young guys and the old guys that give effort. Svoboda gets minutes, because from reports, he is doing what is asked and it isn't translating to the real games. Obi is apparently getting it done as well as Mikesell. Pierce appears to be good as gone. Crosby is a known quantity as it appears and will have the same role he has this year next...probably even further reduced. XW doesn't appear to be an issue on the floor, I would suspect injuries are nagging him more than known. Kostas? Who knows. Is it performance or something else. I think you can say that out of all of them, Crosby and Pierce are the two that the writing on the wall is regarding their involvement moving forward.

So where do you go from here? Cunningham, Trey, XW, Obi, Mikesell, J Davis, Crutcher, Kostas, Svoboda...Cohill. Pierce...there's another probable opening. Who knows what Crosby will do...stick around with a VERY limited role or bounce. We don't know exactly what is going on with X. You hope it is something that is out of his control, such as an ailment that can be rehabilitated.

In the end, I think one spot will open up for sure, maybe a second. In that case, the freshman improve in the off season and things start an upward trend.

Crosby wasn't desperation. Guy had a good pedigree out of high school. Maryland offered him and wanted him to go to prep school for a year

North Carolina brought him for a visit

https://keepingitheel.com/2012/05/09...tion-in-focus/

http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/threa...-verbal-dayton

Ever since 2014 point guard Joel Berry revealed that he is a UNC fan at heart. Tar Heel Nation has been chomping at the bit for Roy Williams to offer him.

The offer hasn’t come yet to Berry because UNC is busy doing it’s due diligence, looking at other PGs in the class. Interest in John Crosby has been confirmed recently. Another five star top of the line prospect that fits Carolinas system.

Now that we know the Tar Heels are looking at both Joel Berry and John Crosby for the 2014 class. Holding off on offering Berry, a UNC fan, makes sense. Roy Williams is doing his due diligence

Shocka43, I think you’ve given as level-headed and honest of an assessment of this team as it stands now, and is likely to be next season. If it comes to pass as you presented it, the question becomes how many additional guys Coach Grant will bring in next year, and how many scholarships he’ll not use on the basis of not finding the right player(s) to mesh with the returning cast.

My current over/under on that is 2, as in he’s trying very hard to find someone to fill the void created when Sam decided to transfer to Charleston, and that he wants to be ready to fill the roster spot of Pierce, who seems to have decided that he doesn’t want to play here. Beyond that, I think he’ll still be on the lookout to fill slots that might open, but he won’t force a current player out this offseason unless he’s a cancer in the locker room and/or insubordinate to the point of walking off the court in practice.
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Not sure of your source for that info, OSU, but Rivals had Crosby as a 3-Star, and at least one other service had him at 2.5. Not total horse meat, but not 5-Star either.

Edit: OK, I now see the source. Probably wishful thinking on UNC’s part. Either that, or the guy saw 2-1/2 Stars and was suffering from double vision.
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I don't think he was five star either at any point in his career. Guys rise and fall in the ratings but it's fact North Carolina brought him in for an unofficial

Then Maryland came calling in August, offering Crosby a scholarship to be part of the 2014 class.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/h...922-story.html

The point here is that Crosby was a good get at the time. He wasn't a desperation get or some guy that we stole away from Wittenberg at the last minute

He just hasn't gone through the maturation process as expected...

With 97 replies to date, this Golden Poll has generated more comments than any other Golden Poll, which - out of frustration - I began in 2013-14. The previous record, for Figgie's sake, was 54.

Typically we get views and replies after wins...to have this many views (>2300) and replies after a loss - to me - is a good thing as is shows that My Team has fans that are frustrated, but passionate, faithful and full of high expectations.

We'll get thru this season and this time next year will have forgotten about the lack of a bench as we should be 8-9 deep.

Go Flyers! My Team!!

King Rollo the Deputy Assistant of FigStats...OUT!

Pure speculation on my part but he's a good athlete, 6'3, good frame. He's got the physical tools and athletic ability to get it done.

His size and athletic ability probably put him a lot of big program's radar like North Carolina on the hope he'd put it all together. For whatever reason it's never happened

What no pizza?
 

I went on the world wide web to order an on-line pizza but all I saw were these lousy choices and they weren't even pizza, so I think almost everyone posting on here came here by mistake .....

So Rollo don't get too full of yourself! Unless you are eating a Cassano's or Milanos all meat pizza! :)

Ugh, I miss Cassanos. None available in TX and I haven't been back to OH for 14 years. Once or twice a year, someone goes up and brings me back a small half-baked deluxe which after I finish cooking, is still better than any pizza available in TX.