Agree with this completely. That is why individuals like Alex G in 2014 get a talk that they will not play much if at all in 2015 but welcome to stay, therefore Alex's call to stay or go.

Crosby likely will be in this category for next year. John, you are welcome to stay as you are positive and a great person, but transparently your playing time in 2018-2019 is likely to be reflective of the last 5-10 games of the 2017-2018 season.

I don't think this happens nearly as much as you seem to think. The more common scenario is a heart-to-heart between player and coach about playing time which leads to a mutual parting. I can't think of a single instance where UD (or another school) told a player with zero off court issues that he wasn't welcome back next year despite the player wanting to stay. I'm not saying it's never happened - just saying I can't think of a situation and it seems pretty rare.

As for your comment about not recalling us ever losing a recruit because of it - I have 2 responses.

1.) Because I don't think we have actually done it
2.) I don't think we ever know why a recruit ultimately chose another school

Pretty consistent. We'll need his boards (and passing)more than his scoring next year. Of cousre we'll take points and close to the basket work.

Hoping he can commit to playing DE - FENSE. Spelling Josh/Kostas. And not losing much when he's on the floor

Nobody is getting pushed out. The rotation for next year is pretty set with the top 8-10 guys (Cunningham, Landers, Mikesell, Matos, Crutcher, Davis, Antetekumnpo, Svoboda Toppin, Cohill). In order of class, not playing time. Svoboda is likely #10 on that depth chart, and while unsure of how much Toppin and Cohill play, I expect them to get a shot as "Grant's recruits"). Anyone else we bring in will have an uphill battle for PT. If Pierce is gone, I hope we bring in a raw athletic big man to try to mold. You can't teach size.

You asked every player who chose another school over UD and that's what they told you?

Did you even ask 1?

I'm being a bit harsh, but this is the sort of internet-based definitive statement that is utterly indefensible. It might be 100% true but you would never say "I can tell you with 100% certainty this doesn't happen."

Now tell me "all I said was I can't recall" which is 100% true. It's just not a worthwhile statement. I can't recall a single player from the 1994 national championship team but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Did you not read the definitive statement that I was responding to? It's not my burden of proof and that was only a small part of my post. If you disagree with my opinion, fine, but spare me the BS.

Playing around with running a player off scholarship or how you handle a kid can definitely have repercussions in recruiting. High school or AAU coach encourage kids not too consider your school. It's the not the kids that care but the advisors

It's a message board. People are going to use "pull a scholarship" instead of a "highly suggestive conversation between a player and coach about playing time which leads to a mutual parting" because it is easier. That's how coaches "pull" scholarships in most cases. Call a spade, a spade.

Do we know Crosby isn't in the doghouse? Not to the level of Pierce/X obviously.

After a couple of the games where Westerfield played and Crosby didn't during A10 play the DDN asked about it AG mentioned hard work in practice as why. That's kind of a veiled shot at Crosby, no? Or has AG just had total a loss in confidence in his ability?

Agreed, we need to be aggressive on the grad transfer market. I'd really like someone who's a good defender. I think we've got enough guys to score to next year.

I'd take a 2/3 or any position if we can get a high level guy

Except that those are two different things.

I wouldn't be surprised if we pulled the scholarship from X or Pierce because, from what we have heard, AG can support that decision with off-court behavior that was detrimental to the team.

The other guys? I wouldn't call that "pulling their scholarship". If you need help finding a shorter way to say what it really is - I can probably help you out.

Archie had a talk with each player as to where they were and what they had to do moving forward. Both sides talking. I Remember Staten came in and wanted to stay and Archie said no way Jose. It may take a few weeks before we hear who is leaving.

The coach is still pushing the guy out the door. That conversation is only ending with one result. It's like the guy that resigns after coming to "mutual" decision instead of getting fired. Or that break-up that was "mutual" when you really got dumped.

People love to say things are "mutual" as a way to spin or rationalize them. They're only kidding themselves.

The difference is that those players still have the option to stay if they are happy with the playing time being offered. Maybe the coach is trying to get them to leave by saying the playing time isn't going to be there, but ultimately it is the players choice in those instances.

So someone said something stupid, and to prove your point you said something just as stupid?

Suffice to say, I will not spare you when you say no one ever doesn't accept a scholarship for that reason when you have 0% knowledge to back up that statement.

Grant Gelon

This is our former coach. Kid decides to return after the "We don't see you fitting into our plans here" talk. AAU coach is contacted and then is on the phone talking to him about transferring and telling him Indiana may push him off the team. Was his scholarship pulled? Technically, no. Did he have a choice? No. Shines a little more light on when Ralph Hill tweeted about the choice not being his own when he transferred.

These are the same college coaches who are the subject to an FBI investigation. The same coaches and universities that have swept some horrific crimes under the rug over the years. They'll keep incidents involving athletes out of the news or do their best to silence the story. It's PR management to them. Controlling the narrative that it was a "mutual" decision is just another example.

What's really your issue? So, we both made statements that we have "0% knowledge" on or something. Why do you care? This is such an odd thing to trigger this lecture.

Without accounting for potential transfers, UD would return 84% of minutes played. Surprisingly, this is only 3rd in the A-10: George Mason returns ~100% and Richmond returns 94%. As Radar mentioned, the top teams lose significant experience: Rhode Island returns 40%, St. Bona 54%, Davidson 52%, and St. Joe 66%.

Yes, and it’s not only minutes, but the production those teams lose. RI and Bona lose a ton of points and will struggle mightily.

I looked at the rosters of the bottom 3, and found it interesting that Davidson’s graduation losses will be mostly in the frontcourt, but Bona’s graduation losses will be almost entirely in the backcourt. Put the two together, and you might have a heckuva squad for next year.

Also, for all those graduation losses, Rhody will still have a decent core to build around. Russell in the backcourt and Langevine up front are pretty good. But yeah, they’ll definitely have some holes to plug.

And I’d imagine that St. Joe’s 66% returning isn’t too far from the norm, when you consider 4 academic classes per team (not including grad transfers), and that seniors generally play more minutes than freshmen (unless you’re UK, where you regularly have tons of freshmen and hardly any seniors).
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Remember too that St. Joes gets Charlie Brown and Lamarr Kimble back from injury

The Hawks could be the favorite to finish 1st in the conference next year. Mason should be up there, too, with a 5th place finish this year and all that experience returning. If our guys develop as hoped/expected, we could at least be top 4 again next year (but anything below @ 6/7 won’t be “progress” as far as I’m concerned).
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It seems like to me that Rhode Island (assuming they hold onto their core if Hurley goes and hire a competent coach who brings some help in), VCU, Mason, St. Joes, Davidson and St. Louis are the top teams in the league with us next year.

Everyone save Mason loses some pieces. I'd agree that with no one in my opinion looking like a clear front runner, I think if St Joes is healthy with no front runner I'd give the nod to them. Charlie Brown who missed this year had a really good freshman year for them and Taylor Funk seems like he's on his way to being an all conference player.

St. Louis loses Roby but I think they'll have a really good frontline with French, Foreman & Jalen Johnson.

They bring in Carte'Are Gordon, a 6-foot-9, 255-pound power forward who's the highest ranked recruit in the A10. He had a legit offer from Kansas so I would think this guys pretty legit. He's the highest ranked recruit anyone in the A10 has brought in since Shaka signed Terry Larrier I believe.

I'm excited for George Mason next year. They've struggled since their addition and have received hell for it. Would be nice to see them pull their weight with a good season. This year's finish was a solid first step.

Casey Cathrall, the strength & conditioning, might be the most important guy on the staff right now. This guy was a fantastic hire by Grant compared to what the S&C guy was doing under Archie. We moved from doing machines to Olympic/compound movements which is what basically the conventional wisdom now from your local gym to the Patriots.

Kostas- He really needs 20lbs of muscle added to his frame. If he gets some strength and combines that with his height & athleticism then he will be bar none the most physically talented big man to ever play at Dayton. Really hope he's on campus working this offseason and not globe trotting

Crutcher- He needs to add strength desperately. Someone had a thread talking about getting to the basket. Crutch is going to be so much better at being able to absorb/handle contact around the basket when he adds strength. Being able to absorb contact is gonna get him to the free throw line more too.

Look at the VCU game. If you watch closely there were many instances of Williams just overpowering him on the offensive and defensive end. Williams is a physical senior point guard and that was bothering Crutch at times

Jordan Davis- He's not scrawny but like Trey Landers as a freshman he could lose some body fat and gain some muscle.

On the other hand, please don't say "book it" or "lock". That is equally as presumptuous.

That would be true, if it wasn't false. The article clearly stated the school has a rule specifically saying that he has the right to return if he wants to. Sure, this is an extreme case, but what I'm trying to say (and this will be the last time I try) is that there is a difference in this scenario and a scholarship being pulled. Putting this kid in the same group as guys who get kicked out for disciplinary issues is unfair to this kid.

And if I was in a recruiting battle for a kid against Archie, you better believe I would make sure his parents knew about this. If you honestly think a parent wouldn't care about this when thinking about their son's future, then I don't know what to tell you. How a program treats players is part of that decision.

EDIT: You also said that "every team does it." My point was that it's actually pretty rare. You found one example. Proud of you!

He can return to school, but not as a basketball player. That is pretty clear in the article. Type "pulled scholarship" or something similar in your google machine if you want more examples. This isn't rare and gives a better glimpse into these "mutual" parting of the ways. It's obvious that the PR spin the university puts out there works on some and that's why they do it.

It will be interesting with the much deeper bench next year to see if we crank up the pressure and start implementing a pesky full court press. I expect and hope we will.

It is a “one year” scholarship not a four year. I remember Bobby Knight telling a kid that his scholarship was not being renewed. Both sides talk and when a kid wants to transfer to a school that the coach doesn’t like then the BS starts.

I lost my swami hat years ago so like everyone else have a 50/50 chance of being right. I do believe the kids have a right to some privacy and we have no right to know about injuries or academic. We will find out if the school decides to release it.

John Crosby didn’t see the court Saturday for the Dayton Flyers.

That wasn’t as surprising as the fact that walk-on guard Jack Westerfield moved ahead of them in the rotation, at least in this game.

“He busts his butt in practice,” Dayton guard Jalen Crutcher said. “He plays good defense. He does whatever coach says. I guess that’s why.”

“He shows up day in and day out to practice, always on time,” Dayton guard Trey Landers said. “He’s just bought into what coach (Anthony) Grant wants. When Jack gets in the game, he does what he does and plays to his strengths, and that’s getting him some time on the floor.”

“I really hadn’t looked at it as a statement,” Grant said. “Other than I felt like he would help us, so he got the opportunity.”

“My thing is in order to sub or play, somebody’s got to come out,” Grant said. “As a coach, you have to make a decision. Who puts you in the best position to have success? That’s all we’re trying to do. It’s never about an individual. I love all of our guys. I think they’re great people. But at the end of the day, my job is to accomplish the mission, and that’s to put the best team out there that gives us the best chance to have success a a team. That’s what we try to do. The guys we played today we thought gave us the best chance.”

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/sp...VNeneNyZjMDxM/

You read that, look at Crosby's PT in non blow out situations and it's tough for me to think that Crosby isn't in the doghouse to some degree.

Read the article bcross posted. It actually is a 4 year scholarship. They have a rule preventing the school from taking the scholarship away for on court performance. The only way they can force the kid out is for off-court issues.

It used to be a "year-to-year" thing. That changed in 2011. Schools can offer multiple year scholarships now. And schools (like it mentioned in the article) can put in their own rules preventing coaches from doing what Archie wanted to do.

bcross - most of the "scholarship pulling" out there are coaches pulling scholarships prior to a player signing. That's a different thing, but still uncool.

Pulling or at least attempting to pull scholarships is not new and not restricted to big schools. My brother in law was on a football scholarship to Bucknell in the early seventies and injured his knee. The coach tried to pull his scholarship and it took his future father in law, a labor union president, to make it clear to the coach that that was not a plan that would be allowed to happen.

They can still pull the athletic scholarship for on court performance, it's just that the kid would go on an academic scholarship instead and not be permitted to be part of the basketball program. That frees up a scholarship for the athletic program, while the now former athlete still receives the financial benefit of the scholarship.

I must have missed something with Xeyrius and Pierce. You guys seem (generally) to be furious with them, and I guess they aren't coming back based on the general expectation here. What exactly did they allegedly do? What confirmation is there? I know they weren't even at some games. Any indication why?

Pierce does not care and walks away from individual position coaching. Just attitude.
With X it’s a bad back or not caring anymore. Lots of speculation but we will have to wait and see what comes out. Really miss our student spy’s like we’ve had in the past.
Expected a lot more than what we got out of either of them.

And you forgot their best returner, Dowtin.

And supposedly the recruiting class is loaded

If Hurley leaves, that class more than likely would get decimated like us when we lost McKinley and Naz

Yes, I did. Thanks, CT Flyer.
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I know nothing of the true situation, but Crosby impresses me as a kid whose feelings are easily hurt. Possibly not the thickest of skins. And not really a vocal leader, either. Perhaps Grant is looking for a “take-charge” attitude out of his PG (pretty understandable), and Crosby just doesn’t have that mindset.

Just a few random thoughts.
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1st bracketology. P5/BE & American only multibids. Davidson A10 champ, St Joes next 4 out

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...l/bracketology

Don't know how much stock we can put in a prediction 7 months before the season starts. Interesting that he has Loyola as an 11-Seed after a Final Four appearance (Really? Not even on the 8/9 Line?) and that he has our "friends" from Norwood dropping all the way from a #1 Seed down to the 8/9 line. I know they lost a coach and some players, but still - quite a drop.

No Arizona, Miller is guilty then I guess. Louisville is in? What about the upcoming sanctions?

it'll take years for those to hit, the NCAA just now got them for the stripper incident years ago

They had 4 players graduate and 3 declare early for the draft leaving 6 players on the roster for 2018-19. Of the six, four were freshman this past season and the other 2 will be RS Jrs, one of which sat out this previous season due to transferring in. So far, Sean also only has 1 assistant for next season. I am sure Arizona will eventually get some new recruits so they could appear in future brackets depending on how that plays out.

We were a 7 a year ago and didn't get in this year...quite a worse drop.

"A-10: This is a tricky one. Will there be a team in the Power 36? Maybe not to start, but there are plenty of teams vying for spots. The consensus seems to be to lean toward Saint Joseph’s with Charlie Brown and Lamar Kimble back or Saint Louis with Jordan Goodwin, Jalen Johnson, Hasahn French and Javon Bess. But, don’t for a second dismiss Davidson. The Wildcats have a star in Kellan Grady. Yes, Peyton Aldridge is gone, but Davidson will be in the mix to win the league. Book it. Rhode Island is still a toss-up based on who returns and the unknowns seem to be VCU and Dayton. Regardless, the league should be deeper."

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...019-contenders

3 A-10 teams in the The Athletic's "Way Too Early" Mid-Major top 25. RI was #9, Davidson #14 and SLU #18.

Who are the other 22 teams? We are not even in the mid-major top 25?

The article is blocked by a paywall.


https://theathletic.com/300259/2018/...-major-top-25/:


Any team that is not in the top seven conferences (ACC, American, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12, SEC) or Gonzaga (which as I've explained many times does not operate under the same constraints as the teams on this list) will be considered a mid-major. As Loyola-Chicago proved this season, that's far from an insult. With that in mind, here's a way-too-early mid-major top 25:

1. Nevada

They don't think highly of Dayton's chances for next year

Sure, based on this year and the massive turnover, it's easy to see why. We'll have a better idea once we see what, if any, new recruits we have available for next year.

Given the amount of transfer and still unclaimed incoming Freshmen available, these prognostications aren't worth the paper they are written on. I guess that is an old school comment given this digital age.

Call me crazy but I'm excited for next year. The way I see it we lost a guard who improved immensely but really didn't fit AG's dribble drive scheme and a 6'10 kid who had a lot of potential but really didn't produce much. That's it.

SO FAR, we gain a top 100 recruit (who does fit AG's system), two juniors--one who has multiple NCAA game experience (admittedly, the other we don't know much about), and a freshman 6'8 kid who I've read "could be special". Add in two soon to be sophomores and a soon to be jr who were OJT'ing all year--all three should be improved.

That right there is a better team than this year's team.

Now, add in atleast one grad transfer, a top JUCO player, and another freshman recruit. The other two scholarships can be transfers that need to sit a year or hold the scholly. I think this team will compete for a championship in a much improved A10.

the author did say the list was 'way too early'

national writers are going to be big on what a team has coming back especially for a mid major list. Very few known high impact freshmen for the teams on the list.

Interesting to see what people are saying

I look at that April 4th bracketology less from the seeding stand point and more on the perception of the leagues and the scheduling implications.

The ACC has 11 teams in that projection. If I'm an ACC coach like Brad Brownell at Clemson and I've got 10 other potential tourney caliber teams in my conference and I'm going to play 20 games in league (I realize ACC isn't going to 20 till 19/20) there's no way I'm going to take many risks out of conference. ACC/B10 challenge which I have to play and South Carolina who I play every year. That's 22 games against high caliber competition.

The Dukes, UNCs and Michigan States will always set up a few high profile, made for TV OOC games. If I'm an Iowa, Clemson, Nebraska type mid level program in those leagues I'm playing a soft OOC and taking my chances getting victories in conference. .500 (10-10) in league play is going to be even more viable for an at large bid than 9-9. 2-3 quality opponents in OOC with 7-9 cupcakes thrown in.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018...a-state-loyola

another mid major top 25

7. Davidson
18. Saint Louis
24. Rhode Island

Davidson getting a lot of love right now. Great backcourt but I think there's some major question marks in their front court

That's a really good point about scheduling from the perspective of an average/below average power five school.

Davidson may be getting a lot of love right now and their backcourt of Kellan Grady and Jon Axel Gudmundsson is a great one but ours isn't too shabby either! We defeated them 65-64 back in January. Granted it was at home but Jalen Crutcher hit a crucial 3 pointer with 56 seconds remaining and Jordan Davis will only get better! Add Dwayne Cohill to the mix and AG maybe getting agood PG Grad transfer and we are in business!

Now that Aldridge and McGarrity are gone, I think their front court will be pretty green. They seem to always be a good offensive team so I'm sure they'll find away to replace Aldridge's scoring but the two guys it looks like they're counting on in the front court, Ekwu and Kovacevic are really injury prone. In Kovacevic's case he's played less than 250 minutes over the first two years of his career

North Carolina went 11-7 in ACC play this year and got a 2 seed.

Some of that is brand name......but an excellent point all the same. Does Wake Forest get a #2 with the exact resume, exact wins, exact computer #'s, and exact margins of victory?

I'm not sure but I feel like they got a pretty generous seed.

I think the issue for Dayton going forward with this is going to be exempt tourneys. North Carolina with some good wins in conference and a pedestrian ACC record got a 2 seed. Syracuse's best OOC win was Buffalo and they finished 2 games under .500 in ACC play and made it in the tourney.

They go to 20 games the season after next, what incentive is there for an ACC to team to do anything but play it safe with the Big 10/ACC challenge & maybe 1-2 more tough OOC games.

I hope I'm wrong but I think we're gonna see more Big 10/ACC schools do what Indiana did this year and play an exempt tourney at home against cupcakes. Starting to see this now with teams moving to this tourney's like preseason NIT where it's 4 good teams and each team gets two buy games before playing 2 games against the good teams in the field.

3-4 years down the line I could see the tourney's Dayton is playing in having fields more like the Charleston Classic this year

Ask Nebraska how a soft OOC worked out for them this year, 13-5 in conference and NIT bound!

The NCAA as a whole is probably undergoing massive changes in the next 5 years. Paying players/P5 breaking away/one and done etc.. The gap between the P5/be/everyone else is growing not shrinking. I just hope the game and team we all love is still playing in the same realm as the blue-bloods, and we aren't dropped in to some second rate division altogether. P5 have to be tiring of the NCAA.

Somebody thought unveiling the field alphabetically on TBS was a good idea. So there is the presence of complete imbeciles in power.

Back to hoops playing, shouldn't we have some real info/signings coming down here soon? Im not up on the periods, but didn't a big recruiting and signing period just open?

I fear that we'll look back on this anomaly 5 years down the road

Should start hearing about visits for transfers, jucos and high schoolers any day now I'd guess

Recruiting is now open. Signing period will not be for a few more days, April 11.

Visits yes. Signings won't start until the 11th and continue on for quite some time and then transfers can come in whenever. I'd suspect though, that whoever will be on the team will be enrolled in 2nd summer session, which starts June 22nd.

Cooke and Cunningham didn't commit till to June. I'd suspect any JUCOs or high schoolers would be sooner

All eyes have to be on this Tre Mann kid, 4 star guard out of Florida(I believe) Most services agree Dayton is in his top three but looking at Twitter we are in his top 2. This cat is priority number one for me, Wendell Mitchell would be number two, then i put the staff in a room and give them each a phone and tell them not to come out until they have an immediately eligible 6'10"/250lb. freshman, transfer or otherwise in the fold. Then, a 6'10"/250lb. sit one play one(or two). Then they can get all the 6'3" 185lb. guys that would be a "good get" they want.

Mann is 2019, would be a senior in HS next year

I am continuously confused by classes/reclassifying etc...it all runs together. I just want us to get all the best players all the time. :D

It wasn't a banner year for the BIG. A few really good teams at the top but was not as deep.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...LTyEh5UBwe89K/

Early A10 preview from Jablo and the Dayton Daily

St. Louis is 1st. I can buy them being favorite but they have no shooting on that team. Big front court and I'm sure they'll crush people on the glass. Neither Bess or Goodwin seemed liked effective shooters. Seems like teams that could make it a half court game and effectively zone them could give them trouble.

I think the league will be better top to bottom but I don't see a dominate team. I could buy any one of George Mason, Davidson, Richmond, St. Joe's, URI, STL, VCU or Dayton being contenders

We have 5 schollies to fill, i dont think we can be slotted anywhere until we know what is happening with them. We could be anywhere between runaway heavy favorite to as low as 7 or so. Funny on Twitter, Jablo has sent VCU fans into a tizzy

VCU has a big whole at point guard and I think an upcoming freshman is the only true PG on the team. Mobley I thought looked promising but Tillman is a big hole up front

Mr. Jablonski I Beg to Differ
 

2019 Atlantic 10 Dayton Men's Basketball Final Standings
1. Saint Louis
2. St Joseph's
3. George Mason
4. Davidson
5. VCU
6. St Bonaventure
7. Rhode Island
8. UMASS
9. Duquesne
10. Richmond
11. Dayton
12. Fordham
13. GW
14. LaSalle

The reality for UD is that they have a way to go to become competitive in the conference
and their roster is in complete disrepair. Patience will be necessary while Anthony Grant and staff correct the problem. His performance can be judged after 3 years on the job. Fasten your seat belts Flyer fans as you prepare for next year. A quick turn around does not appear to be forthcoming. God bless David Jablonski for his view of the Flyers through his Red and Blue glasses.

I believe this is what the kids refer to as "woke" or "hot take". The teams ahead of us were crushed by departures/graduations. We lost one meaningful guy and he was our 4th best player at best behind Crutch,Josh and Trey

I will accept any wager you want that the Flyers will not finish 11th or worse. jeff Ruby's,Car keys, paycheck........you name the stakes.