Every time Butler gets another 4-star player, I think "that's a player we'd have got if we were in the BE."

The timing of their run with Stevens and the NBE forming is so surreal. From battling Wright State and Green Bay to a perennial Top 25 team, almost overnight.

I'm admittedly jealous.

On a positive note Jordan Davis visits Butler, shortly after visits Dayton and decides Butlers not worthy--the young man chose wisely.
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Creighton is pretty lucky too. If Doug McDermott does't turn out to be a star they could have been looking at a 6 year NCAA tourney drought, Dad on the hot seat and possibly Big East chances in jeopardy

Creighton is a weird animal. They've made the tourney fairly consistently of late, but they've never had much success.

Worst quarter ever, q1 2017, for pay-tv providers.

Q1 2017 was 5x worse than q1 2016.



https://news.fastcompany.com/cord-cu...r-ever-4036578:


05.03.17 | 2:21 PM

Cord-cutting spikes fivefold in cable TV’s worst quarter ever

Cable's day of reckoning has come. With all the major cable and satellite companies having reported their quarterly numbers, analyst firm MoffettNathanson put together a new cord-cutting report, and things are bad. Pay-TV providers lost an estimated 762,000 pay-TV subscribers over the first three months of this year—five times more than they lost during the same period last year. To make matters worse, Q1 has historically been a strong season for pay TV.

"For the better part of 15 years, pundits have predicted that cord-cutting was the future," an apocalyptic Craig Moffett wrote. "Well, the future has arrived."

As I wrote last week, Comcast was the only major provider to buck the trend, but judging by the way things look, that winning streak won't last.

Butler's transformation goes back before Stevens. I'm also jealous. From Matta to Lichliter, to Sevens to Holtzman. They've made great coaching decisions often keeping it within the Butler program. There is not doubt the small college in Indy has made a name for itself. This year Holztman is noted to have gotten the best recruiting class ever at Butler. There is no doubt in my mind the Big East has helped. Their 2017 class is ranked as high at 11th.

Bumping this thread. With the talk of 20 game conference seasons, UD needs to move to the best conference possible.

Didn't know that UD was invited

Aren't, weren't, and likely never will be.

This dead horse has been beat so much it looks like an unrecognizable pile of blood.

Is there any thought that the Big East expands... so they can move to a 20 game conference schedule (like the P5 conferences)?

I disagree. I think we should try in get into the worst possible conference. Best chance to make the NCAA every year.

In the words of Mr. Wonderful (not you Rollo, a different Mr. Wonderful), this thread is also "dead to me."

I have not heard anything specifically but I would not be surprised. It would be a great opening and I hope that we get in front of this in the case that it happens.

What more is there to say, UD has recently been valued as the most valuable program vs. BE teams by WSJ & Forbes, UD R&D $$ #3 amongst Catholic Univ (after ND & Georgetown), our geographic blue print is dead on. The below is just some benchmarks of how we compare vs BE and our "competition". Perhaps CAG can get us over the top in time for the next expansion. I think SLU is the competition.

School…………..Students…….US News Rank..…….Affiliation…Endow..NCAAT
last 10 yrs
Butler………………4,800…………..2 Regl………….N/A……………..190M………24
Creighton………..8,400…………..1 Regl.………Catholic…………450M……….7
Georgetown…… 19,000…………20…….……..Catholic…………1.5B…………14
DePaul…………….23,000…….……124…………..Catholic…………440M…… ….0
St John's…………. 21,000…………164..…………Catholic…………686M……….2
Seton Hall………..10,000…………118…………..Catholic…………264M….…….1
Providence…….. 4,700…………..1 Regl.………Catholic…………209M……….4
Villanova………… 11,000…………50…….………Catholic………….564M………23
Marquette……… 11,000…………86………………Catholic………….550M……16
Xavier…………….. 6,300…………..4 Regl..…….Catholic…………156M………22

St Louis…………..13,000……..……96…………….Catholic………….1.1B…… …..6
Dayton…………… 11,000………..111…………..Catholic………….500M……..10
Gonzaga…………. 7,500…………..4 Regl...…..Catholic…………217M………22
St Mary's………… 4,000……………9 Regl....….Catholic………..170M……..7
VCU………………..31,000…………..164………………N/A……………….650M….17
Davidson………… 1,800…………….9 LibArts….Presbyterian…681M.…...8
St Bonaventure..2,000…………..22 Regl..….Catholic…………63M…....…1
Wichita St………..15,000…………..Not Ranked..N/A……………235M…....14

Going to a 20 game round robin schedule would be 11 teams. That is difficult because 1 team is not playing every T/W and S/S. It becomes even more difficult with the power 5 conferences playing 20 conference games because these teams won't have open dates during conference play like they may have had in previous seasons. I think he only workable solution is 12 teams but that takes the BE away from a true round robin which, from what I hear, is very desirable for the teams in the BE.

I'll bet the grass is GREENER on the other side of the fence!

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

We should only go to the Big East if Wright State comes also. That way we would play them home and home and there would be no more dispute.

UD needs to focus on what it can control right now and worry about possibly switching conferences when the opportunity happens. I am one that would love for us to get into the BE, but that won't be something that we control.

Of course your right- but this is the most intriguing of off-season discussions. I find the A10 an awesome contingency plan as I think we can remain relevant there, with regular NCAAT appearances. But schools want to be affiliated with their peers, and that is not the A10 its the BE (as my chart above indicates). I think we can flourish there, get the athletes we'd need and elevate our brand beyond our current expectations. Our OOC opponents would line up to play us, our team value would remain strong, and we'd not again worry about our conference's future.

But I get that this today is a moot point, and fear not that I'll be harping on this. But you'd have to admit it would be fun to kick X's arse more than occasionally.

There is no interest from Big East member schools nor leadership for expansion. Pretty sure its going to take UConn moving their football back to FCS to change the current configuration

Thanks for the info. Don't know where we would be without your insightful comments.
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As other conferences expand to a 20 game schedule, the big East will only have a few options. Play low conference schools for noncon, play conferences like the A10 in the London for better RPI, or go to a 20 game conference schedule too. If they go to 20 games, they will need to expand by 1 team. So with the push for 20 games, I believe this thread may be relevant.

Correct, this was the point I was trying to make.
The BE may not need (a team like) UD now, but maybe soon.
UD may not need the Big East as the A10 is decent, but would welcome it.

BU that is never going to happen. UConn has drawn a line in the sand and they are committed to FBS football. This is nothing but a wet dream of BE fans. And have you watched UConn basketball lately? Jim Calhoun is not walking back through that door.

As Lee Corso used to say "not so fast my friend".... Apparently Division-III St. Joseph in West Hartford, Conn. has offered and he is considering a return...

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...n-coach-return

But I get your point!

UConn has sunk too much money into football to ever downgrade and the chance of another realignment leaves with the chance of getting into the ACC

The other thing to consider is the Big East tourney at MSG. The ACC/B10 want to get into MSG every couple of years. Big East tourney ticket sales aren't what they were. Dayton travels and the fact Flyer fans would probably buy more than some of the current members could help

Dayton right now isn't on their radar. If Dayton keeps it's NCAA tourney streak going and ends with 9 to 10 straight years in the tourney with some a run or two it's possible things look different as Fox TV deal gets closer to expiring

From a national championship to the unemployment line, I guess that could happen to Kevin Ollie...if he misses the NCAAT this year, that will be missing the NCAAT 3 out of the last 4 years.



2013–14 Connecticut 32–8 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Champions
2014–15 Connecticut 20–15 10–8 T–5th NIT First Round
2015–16 Connecticut 25–11 11–7 6th NCAA Second Round
2016–17 Connecticut 16–17 9–9 T–5th
2017–18 Connecticut 0–0 0–0

Back to my previous post, how do you schedule with one team (rotating) getting a night off twice per week during conference play? This would make the conference season 11 weeks long. With the week off during Christmas, the conference schedule would have to start December 10th (this season). Three games over Thanksgiving for a holiday tournament. That means 7 or 8 games in three weeks on either side of Thanksgiving and start of conference play. I suppose 1 could be played between Christmas and New Years.

Other conferences that have an even number of teams can fit 20 games in 10 weeks.

I'd love for the BE to go to 11 teams and include UD as the final team but what I'm outlining above is a real problem from a scheduling perspective.

I'd love for UD to get in the BE just to **** off those fans that are arrogant a-holes.
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This has and always be a painful thread until UD is part of the BE.

I wish someone (other than UD Fans) were reading this website...but suspect that is wishful thinking.

We have a Butler fan who monitors this board so any time we talk about getting into the Big East he can tell us the Big East has no plans to expand.

UD is a perfect institutional fit for the Big East, and in fact, is academically and athletically superior to most Big East schools. If, all other things being equal, a conference of large, national Catholic universities were to be built from scratch in the midwest/eastern part of the United States, Dayton would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, the New Big East was formed with backroom political deals, mediocre institutions being grandfathered-in, and short-term basketball success clouding the judgement of those who put the league together. If this five year run for the Flyers had happened simply a half-decade earlier, we'd be part of the league. Instead we're stuck in a league with, at best, one or two pseudo-rivals and many institutions that have almost nothing in common with us.

If in the long-term we truly believe that a Big East invite is not coming, we need to find an alternative to the A-10. From what I can tell, these would be the best options:

1) Lobby for an invite as an all-sports (except football) member of the AAC. This may be a somewhat lateral move for basketball, but I think that it is an overall institutional upgrade and worth exploring.

2) Take the lead on forming a new conference with the best/most similar institutions from the A-10.

They can't go to 20 conference games with ten teams. So, however they expand, they will need to IF they want to go to 20.

Wouldnt it be great to:
Play in a non-con tourney and not worry that this is our opportunity to get a big W?
Be in a conference where every third or fourth game is vs a ranked opponent?
Have a built in SOS?
Have our games more often shown on ESPN (and others) highlights?

I still rather be in the Big 10.
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And while we are still in a state of what could'a been.....

Andy Katz‏Verified account
@TheAndyKatz
58m58 minutes ago
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McKinley Wright with the game-winner!!!! At the buzzer. @CUBuffsMBB beat Quinnipiac @paradisejam. Tad Boyle said Wright could be best PG ever at CU. Believe him. Wright is special. Speed, grit, pass, shoot and leadership. @Pac12Hoops

I for one, could not give a _ _ _ _ less about being in the BE. I am not at all convinced that it improves our standing with respect to the Big Dance year in and year out. Just ask DePaul and St. John’s.

Like so many, I once hoped desperately for an invite to the BE, but have not spent 5 minutes thinking about it in the last couple of years. When I see this thread still meriting attention from some of the Flyer Faithful, I find it rather pathetic. Makes us look like X wannabes. Let’s just become The Big Dog in the A10, and everything else, and I mean everything, will take care of itself.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

We need to kick a$$, control what we can control, and let Sullivan and Spina control the rest.

And support the he!! out of this team, as we always do.

GO FLYERS!! :yay::clap::yay:
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McKinley who? No one cares.
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Agree and I wish that this thread was deleted. It is psychologically damaging. Let’s achieve success in the conference that we are in and not obsess with another conference. As an announcer of tonight’s game said, an A10 team could win it all. Let’s just aim to win the A10.

Sounds like you have given 5 minutes. If not, then why comment.

Your opinion. I am not in your house, but I am guessing (hoping) that you were not forced to view or comment on this thread. Please let us know if you are in danger in any way. We are here for you.

And ... we need to be in the Big East.

Then don't comment. We need to be in the best conference possible. That is the Big East.

OK, I will ask again. Please comment on the questions above.

If we just played the 15/15 schedule we wouldn't need any of that stuff. (But, yes, those things would be nice.)

Coffeecan, would one and done in the NCAA Tournament give you a better feeling if UD was a member of another conference, versus one and done as an member of the A10?

I ask because I cannot remember the last time an NCAA TOURNAMENT GAME was decided by either schools conference afiliation. If they were decided by conference afiliation, there would be no madness in March. As Duke beating Kansas wouldn't really be that maddening.

I am sorry folks, but many in this fan base are suffering from Holy Big East Psychosis. Try not to despie your own conference. The A10 has aided UD in getting four NCAA tournament bids in a row. That's good news, and there is zero bad news associated with that. At some point, and we have long since past that point, it gets super degrading to keep mocking the A10...as that's exactly what it amounts to.

Umm, you don't think that being in the Big East would bring better recruits? Being in the Big East would mean better talent which means better chance at get at large bids and NCAA tournament wins.

Ummm, in a comparritive sense, absolutely not. Call it the history of Dayton at Xavier theory.

I would strongly argue that UD has a much greater comparative advantage, in virtually all areas of college basketball, to its current conference foes, than it would to a the member schools of the current Big East. And, no, Dayton's chances of winning an NCAA TOURNAMENT GAME, do not increase specifically by entering the Big East.

I am glad that you are starting to come around. :D

Ok, let me rephrase, since you have misinterpreted my comment. I have spent 5 minutes thinking about it, but not 5 minutes worrying about it. And I comment because I find the incessant whining about it, as I said before, pathetic, and as a UD fan, embarrassing.

And since we are taking things so literally, should we not shoot for the ACC, or the Big 10 if you prefer, as certainly those are better choices if we need to truly be in the best conference possible.

Maybe not the year they enter, but as they get to recruit as a Big East member, I don't see how it doesn't.

Better players go to better conferences with better exposure and better competition. Better conferences get preferential treatment by the NCAA committee. Better conferences don't get 7 seeds while paired up with a 10 seeds from a comparable conference who rates out to a 3 or 4 seed. Better conferences will be the benefactor more and more as less and less at large teams are chosen from lesser conferences.

Here's one for you. Every time that Xavier moved up in conference it has benefited them. Every time that UD moved into that same conference it has benefited us. It's obvious that once again Xavier benefited by moving up once again. Why would the same not be true for us this time?

Wait what? Doesn't give us a better chance to make the tourney and now we're being compared to DePaul? Get outta here

Not to say that this wouldn't occur...but it is far from a guarantee.

What we are guaranteed with now....

If we do well in A10 play we get in the tournament. Once you get in the tourney...all bets are off and the best/luckiest teams win.

If UD does what UD should and can do on a consistent basis under AG...the NCAA appearances aren't the issue. The only issue will be satisfying the ego of some fans that want certain brand names coming into UD Arena and certain rivalries coming back.

Don't get me wrong...that would be fun and exciting. But there is absolutely NO guarantee that inclusion to the BE gets the UD program any more success or advancement towards Final Fours, etc...

I don't discount that some of what you say can happen. But to say it as fact...we may just sink back and be a middling BE team too...that is a real possibility as well.

Ok, DePaul is an exaggeration, but which BE schools are you confident we would finish ahead of in most seasons? X, Butler, Villanova, Creighton, Georgetown, Providence? How about Marquette or Seton Hall? Just being in and finishing 6th or 7th is not going to be a boost in most respects. Would facing a more rigorous schedule help come tourney time? I suppose it would. But, you have to get in the Dance for it to matter.

I am of the thought that I want to be in on a regular basis, and be in a position to make the occasional run, and I think the A10 serves us better in that regard. We just made the tourney 4 consecutive years for the first time in school history. Were we in a better spot before X and Butler departed the A10 and our conference had a better profile? I know it’s a small sample to evaluate, but, I don’t think so.

My feeling is that all things considered, if we were in the BE, there is a much greater chance we resemble St. John’s as opposed to X. I think we should be careful what we wish for.

I think we’d do well in the BE. They are our peer universities in every sense. Our recruiting would improve. Period. The A-10 has been good for us and is a great back-up plan. We need not disrespect them or take them for granted. But they are not our peers generally in terms of MBB tradition, facilities, $$, recruiting, and academics (with the odd exception).

I guess Katz doesn't remember Chauncey Billups.

Who is McKenzie White III anyway?

Heres one for you. Every time UD and LaSalle are in the same conference it has benefited us. If LaSalle moves to the MAAC and UD paired up there as well, would not the same be true?

Xavier has nothing to do with anything. XU thrives in the BE because they recruited at a BE level for several years in the A10 before even joining the BE. UD has never done that. They recruit in a completely different pond than we do.

Im with CoffeeCan on this one.

If we ever join the Big East this board will have record traffic and the server will implode. It's ok to root for Dayton in the A-10 and be content, at the same time wishing for The Big East. Imagine the opponents on your current season tickets, now imagine them in The Big East.

I rest my case.

Good post CoffeeCan

Dayton Can Battle DePaul
 

for last place?

St. John's, from the NBE, made the NCAAT and NIT with hc Steve Lavin, so SJU has not been a cellar dweller in the NBE.

Since the NBE was formed, every NBE team has made the NCAAT except DePaul.

I am not wanting out of the A10. We are in a good spot, the A10 is the seventh or eighth best conference. It really is a good conference. But that does not mean that we should not set our sites higher.

We would have gotten into the tourney the last four years if we were in the BE as well.

However, there is no way you can convince me that we would have been seeded so horribly last year if we were in the BE. The Power Conferences are seldom treated like that.

For me, it is all about the NCAA tournament. The BE would give us more exposure, better recruits, better scheduling, more respect.

Imagine you had a good job that you excelled at and enjoyed. And at the same time there was a company in your line of work that would be able to offer you an even better job. More money, better commute, better chance for advancement. Some of you would stay at your job, and that is fine. I am not saying that I would quit my job, in hopes of landing that new job. And I am not saying that I hate my current job. But I would not be delusional in the fact that the other company was better all around. I would look to make contacts and wait for an opening, while still excelling at my current company.

Time for my annual post.

Doesn't matter what any of us think or want. If asked to join the Big East, UD would accept in a nano second. Unless that happens, it is the A10.

That's my point, CE80. What we think or want doesn't matter, unless any of us are in a position to convince the NBE conference bigwigs that they should expand. Unless/until they see the value in expansion, nothing is going to happen on this front, so there's no sense in holding our breath.

Would I rather see 1 road trip to Chicago instead of 2 to Philadelphia? Sure. Would I rather see Marquette at the Arena instead of Fordham? Sure! But would I also rather have a Dodge Challenger than a blue station wagon? Yes. Or a 2,500 square foot house with a 3-car garage? Sure. Doesn't mean I'm going to get any of it, though.
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Yeah, that makes sense since LaSalle and Xavier have enjoyed the same kind of rise in success. :rolleyes:

Let me ask you this. If someday the Big East invites the Flyers and we accept, are you going to post what a huge mistake it is? Because I really believe most people are using that excuse of UD being better off in the A10 as a way of making themselves feel better about where we are. As said, if invited, they will join in a heartbeat and you either know that and don't trust our powers that be to make the right decision or believe they will turn it down because the A10 is a better situation for us. Which is it?

I think this is where Title_BU steps in and tells us the Big East has no plans to expand.

Can we kill this thread? Pretty please.

Here are the facts.

Dayton wants to be in the Big East badly. If an invite came, Dayton would accept immediately.

There is no interest from the Big East. Who knows in 3 or 5 or 10 years, but right now zero interest from the Big East. They likely would expand if Uconn and possibly Gonzaga were open to joining. But the Big East is simply not interested in Dayton at this time (and perhaps never interested).

Yep. It's February 2nd.

Agreed. The A-10 is an adequate enough place for the Flyers if the goal is to be in an annual position to qualify for the Mens NCAA Basketball Tournament and win a game or two. However I think it's important to take a broader view of the situation. The A-10 is a mediocre fit for the University of Dayton's athletic department and as an overall institution. The schools in the A-10 are not our peers (besides St. Louis and maybe Duquesne), the Flyers have no true athletic rivals in the A-10, the A-10 is far too geographically dispersed, the A-10's media contract is not lucrative nor does it offer wide exposure, the quality of the Olympic sports competition isn't generally great...the list of issues with the A-10 goes on and on. The University and fans need to aspire to find a better affiliation and not accept the status quo.

Precisely my point: marriage to a team based on conference has nothing to do with anything. Too many other marriages suggest the exact opposite.

https://theathletic.com/190309/2017/...caa-expansion/

Big East isn't looking to expand now but the Power 5 moving to 20 games conference schedules could force its hand in the near future.

UConn's football situation takes it off the table
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Looks like the article is behind a paywall. Any excerpts available (for cheapskates like me)?
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The Big 10 & ACC are officially moving to the 20 game league schedule. That's 58 fewer OOC games between those leagues & the conventional wisdom says that with 20 games in conference play that'll cause the teams in the those leagues to add buy games & soften the OOC slate.

CBS reports the SEC & PAC 12 are looking at going to 20 & the 20 game league schedule helps with more inventory of league games for the conference networks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...n-2018-19/amp/

If the SEC & PAC 12 go to 20 conference games that's 52 fewer OOC games for those two leagues.


What does this mean in practical terms? Louisville would likely drop a series like their current one with Seton Hall & down the line across the Big East will lose opportunities
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Our bigger concern should be that the BE does expand.

SLU, Richmond, maybe even Duquesne or Davidson (Pittsburgh/Charlotte markets respectively) might be more attractive targets than UD. The blue bloods down south don't want us anywhere near their party, they've made it abundantly clear.

Do not disagree. St Louis and Pittsburgh are attractive media markets to the BE, though living here I can tell you Duquesne is a weak step child to Pitt in the media. Not sure exactly how X feels about us but would not be surprised if they see us as a real threat to them being so geographically close with academic credentials they don’t have and facilities and financial assets that are at least equal if not better.

I just have to think we will find our sweet spot due to our standing as a great basketball culture with an awesome fan base.

It certainly is troublesome and will limit OOC opportunities. Lunardi showed a chart last night that mid-tier P5 conference teams in the NCAA tournament win at a very low percentage with higher seeds, and high-tier mid major teams win at a significantly higher % despite much lower seeding. The NCAA could fix this if they wanted too, forcing teams to have to have say having a sliding scale between OOC and conference games. Play higher SOS for OOC + higher win%, accept lower win% in conference. Play low OOC SOS or lower win% OOC, require higher win% in conference. Don't accept top 25/50/100 wins against conference opponents where conference teams are ranked high early season because of low OOC SOS. Force P5 schools to schedule OOC conference games against top tier mid majors H/A, not just H.

They won't do it of course, but the NCAA tournament is the goose that laid the golden egg. Everyone watches for the upset plus their team. Take away more upset possibilities, lower viewership means lower ratings means less ad $$$.