I agree with this

I kept hearing Alabama is a football school and you can't win there. His predecessor Mark Gottfried made the tourney five years in a row and made the Elite 8.

Avery Johnson has the #2 Point Guard in the country coming and another top 50 coming in this year. They lost a McDonalds AA this year Terrance Ferguson who played pro in Australia rather than go to Bama.

Bama is a football school and they have modest expectations in basketball and Anthony couldn't meet them.

This program has waited a long to get the momentum that Archie built up for it. My fear is we are stuck with Chris Mooney without the sweet 16 for the next 10 years.

I'd love to be wrong but if you look his coaching record objectively the guy is Dennis Felton with a degree from Dayton.

you recruit really well on paper, don't live up to modest expectations of a football school like Alabama and that doesn't concern you?

I know it sounds incredibly harsh, but yea, AM was the head coach and WAS responsible for his recruiting regardless of unforeseen circumstances.
(Being ineligible academically should also kinda be a warning flag you should look at).

Anyway, thank you- We do know for sure he did a hell of a job with the teams we had without any big men, and i'm sure he will have no issue getting great big men at IU.

...but he MIGHT be cursed... and something bad might happen to ALL of them over the next few years and he gets canned....

Point being, I was correcting your mess up.

Grant is from Florida. So those girls are probably just really happy for him.

Do you care to elaborate?

Alex was a late signee (no different than the PG from Louisiana), iirc, due to circumstances BEYOND Archie's control as in "needing BIGS". Robinson had a heck of a freshman year here and if he did not have other alternatives such as getting high and robbing people then who knows. Scott was not good his first 2 years but started to become a pretty good big man until the issues hit. And no more needs to be said about Big Steve.

We can question Archie on some of character evaluations but the guy did nothing to dispel his ability to coach and recruit BIGS from a basketball standpoint.

Go look at Gottfried's record after Nick Saban was hired in 2007. It went down hill fast. So you can keep touting what Gottfried did before AG got there, but there was definitely a change in athletic department resources after Saban was hired, and it was AWAY from basketball.

Fill in the blank tOSU. So you are saying Matta is a concern for how many years now? :worried:

No offense OSU Flyer but I judge this hire from a much different perspective. I think with respect to Alabama, there was much more going on there, just my opinion. So until I see Anthony Grant go sub-.500 for 3 straight years, he gets the same chance I've given every other coach since 1967. Not every year is an up year. AM struggled his first 2 years due to BG leaving abruptly and the hiccup in recruiting that it impacted resonated.

Things I like about AG go further than the win/loss, such as:

-He played here, has a vested interest in the culture. Understands the expectations and the history.
-Has NBA experience with top players
-Has had success at another school BESIDES Alabama (highly successful at VCU)
-I don't think he's looking to jump for the next bigger opportunity; he could have easily just stayed in the NBA
-Coaching pedigree, enough said.
-Can speak to success in the NCAA, has a ring.
-Personal character; I've yet to hear ONE controversial thing about him - he brings integrity, he has integrity.
-His on-court demeanor looks calm and collected

Why don't you judge him in 3 years?

As mentioned earlier in the thread Anthony has coached two of the top 20 players on the planet, maybe two of the top 10. He can watch a player in practice at the forward and point guard position especially and say "here is where you are weak in nba skills and this is how to fix it" Even Archie cant' do that

this should help with recruiting and it should help someone like Kostas realize he can reach his nba goals at UD.

I have to believe that anthony has added some tricks after leaving Alabama.

He is one of the safest hires. And who wanted to hear about how UD had traded coaches with INdiana? And who wanted to hear that 10 times every game which was televised?

I am just saying that I think the fact that he's pulled in really, really highly regarded recruits is a plus. That is where Dayton has historically struggled. We've seen guys blow up and then it's all over. Won't even consider us. Of course, how you actually evaluate talent is the most important thing without a doubt. Five diamonds in the rough is better than five busts. But we've been pretty good at finding diamonds in the rough. And Grant's found his share as well. Consider Larry Sanders, whose composite recruit ranking was #384. The 384th ranked player in the class of 2007! Dude went on to be the 15th overall pick in the NBA draft three years later! So yeah, he can find guys. Even bigs. And he can develop them.

I remember Anthony Grant as a freshman recruited basketball player. He was a big burly 6'5" football player looking guy who was very athletic but seemed to be out of sync with the team on the floor. He was exactly like our Trey Landers at 6'4", today. Neither of them got much playing time as freshmen.
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UD2 and OSU Flyer

You guys keep going on and on about how this is such a bad hire but have not given any names for who is the candidate that is so great that make you hate this hire? I would really like to see names. Every coach that has been talked about has flaws. There was not 1 big time coach out there. Don't get me wrong AG was not my first choice, but I am still happy, I think he fits the culture well. Let's see these perfect candidates that have no flaws at all.

Anthony Grant's bio now up on the Dayton Flyers website...

http://daytonflyers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=647&path=mbball

All the assistants are still there as well. Looks like they are all staying! :D;):banana:

Agreed. Although, it would be good if Mac Wright still comes. More than likely UD will lose some recruits, hopefully with AG, more will stay than leave.

All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele

Okay, that's quite a leap. They are officially assistants until they decide on alternative positions. They aren't going to remove names until it's official.

However, I noticed none of our new recruits are listed on the roster so if you're correct in what it means for assistant coaches, that's bad news as far as recruits are concerned.

Even if they are signed, they cannot be added the to the official roster until they are enrolled.

Joe Brannen, formerly of the Iowa Barnstormers of the Indoor Football League, is an unconventional choice. But he was fired and totally available.

http://www.goifl.com/sports/fball/20...20160711m5dbus

Pretty amazing that Brannen would've been better because he won the Horizon League tournament by beating none of the top teams. Not to mention the fact that he was the understudy of the guy you're saying is a bad hire. The bottom line is that NOBODY really knows how any of these guys would've done. You're just throwing darts and hoping to hit the right Coach. I, personally, think they made the right decision from the candidates they were choosing from. With that being said, Grant could turn this program in to the next Gonzaga, he could go 60-60 over the next 4 years and get hired, he could decide after one year that he wants to go be an assistant in the NBA. Nobody really knows. Just have to let it play out and hope for the best.

You just failed Debate Team 101. No facts to back 'em up. Just bullet point items.

But you may lose track of your facts if you get interrupted so I wait for your fact based retort.

So unproven assistants, a guy at UNC-Asheville that doesn't even have a .600 winning percentage and made the CBI this year, and a guy at NKU that got extremely lucky facing the 5, 9, and 10 seeds to win the HL league tournament. I am not saying that none of these guys wouldn't have been good hires at Dayton. But none of them are these great slam dunk hires that you can definitely say are better than AG.

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 16m16 minutes ago

Asked Neil Sullivan if they were hoping to hire a coach who would stick around. He said both he and Grant look at UD as a "destination job."

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 13m13 minutes ago

Sullivan said he and Grant have both reached out to recruits today.

No, No, No!!! That's John Brannen. Joe Brannen coached the Iowa Barnstormers. There's a huge difference. Bringing in a fired arena football league coach takes serious balls. Could be brilliant.

Heck yeah, I don't know how big of part it played, but if I'm an AD at a university and have many sports programs to worry about, all things being equal, I want the guy who's not going to have me interrupting my plans after 3 to 6 years to go looking again. That would be my selfish reason for hiring AG :p

To be fair, John Brannen did a bit more than getting lucky and facing lower seeds in the HL tourney. Coming in their first year of eligibility for post season, and how young the roster is, he did a pretty **** good job.

That said, it's one year. After one year everyone would have anointed Jim O'Brien for the national collegiate hall of fame and had him the head coach at Kentucky or Kansas in a couple years.

Not one bit. Stick with OSU :whiteflag:

Those of you talking about how Avery Johnson has done so much more than Grant did or will do, seem to conveniently overlook that Avery has a NBA background. Do you think that helped him land the #5 recruiting class? Do you think it might help AG land some recruits when he can talk about Durant and Russell?

Very true. Just joking... and a little wishful thinking! :)

Gottfried was at Alabama for 11 years. In years 4 through 8 he made the NCAA, making the Elite 8 once, losing in the first round twice and the second round twice.

In his last 3 years the Tide made one NIT, and two years had no post season.

When Grant's team made the NCAA in his third season, that was the first time in 6 years the Tide had made the NCAA. His team was riddled with injuries in the nonconference part of the fourth season, or may have made the NCAA again. Fifth year was very weak.

Alabama has had success in the past, mostly under Sanderson. But since Saban, for the most part they have not. AJ may succeed if they turn the resources back on, but hasn't to date.

Anthony couldn't shoot

John Bedell‏Verified account @JBedellWHIO 44m44 minutes ago

The newest head coach of @DaytonMBB is on the other end of the phone with @MHartsockWHIO. Anthony Grant calls it a "dream job." 5 @whiotv

John Bedell‏Verified account @JBedellWHIO 42m42 minutes ago
Replying to @JBedellWHIO @DaytonMBB and

Anthony Grant just told @MHartsockWHIO on the phone every time the @DaytonMBB job opened he "hoped" he'd "have a chance to lead it."

Lance McAlister‏Verified account @LanceMcAlister 41m41 minutes ago

Let's add new @DaytonMBB coach Anthony Grant to the guest list tonight, 7:05 @700wlw

Welcome Home Anthony Grant
 

We look forward to your leadership of the program. Go Flyers!

Avery played in the NBA. That's like totally different. Honestly, I think people are overblowing this NBA stuff. Anthony's background is a selling point. But kids aren't going to worship the ground Anthony Grant walks on because he was an NBA assistant coach.

And most recently he also coached in the NBA. Other than he was so short, I doubt any of today's recruits remember anything about him. It's still the connections to that gig that will get recruits excited. Avery is very good at leveraging that, even tho he has been removed from it for awhile. AG's pedigree is he is a very good recruiter. That was before he went to OKC 2 years ago. So now he also has the NBA connections all of today's recruits know the guys he's coached. I expect him to do very well in bringing recruits to UD.

He was so short that no one remembers him? Oh man. I wonder if will even know who Archie Miller is tomorrow!

This is a potentially disastrous hire in terms of failing to maintain our momentum.

I would give AG a very short leash.

There is no reason that he should not have UD back in the NCAAT by year 3 or year 4.

If UD is not back in the NCAAT by year 4, then I think UD should pull the plug and replace him and move on.

I am not in favor of giving him 6 or 7 or 8 years. We did that with BG, and things never got better.

And I think Neil should maybe be fired, or reassigned elsewhere, if this does not work out.

We just had our best coach in 30 years, and we went with an external guy, with a very sketchy track record, to replace him.

I am just stunned.

Next year we're probably not going to the tournament even if Archie Miller sticks around. It's a rebuilding year after 4 straight NCAA tourney appearances. But it's 100% reasonable to expect NCAA appearances within the next 4 years. In fact, the expectation should be to be back in two seasons.

Honestly, he should probably be fired now if he was seriously considering some of the names that got out there.

I probably didn't type that very clear. I was saying people remember him because he was so short. Other than that, I doubt any of the kids today have any point of reference on his playing days.

With all due respect, what is not to like about him? A few positives at a high level...

- A UD alum.
- Co-Captain and solid college hoops player while at UD.
- Head Coach of 2 D1 programs. One being a Power 5 school.
- NBA assistant coaching experience.
- Played and coached with some of the all-time greats... Don Donoher and Billy Donovan.
- A 1st-Class individual with the utmost integrity and character.

You can argue about the track record all you want. What "internal guy" has a track record to even consider? All will be good...

Go Flyers!

Seriously? He has made the NCAAT every year at OSU except for the last 2 and one other year, and he won the NIT in the other year. And he has 2 Final 4's and an Elite 8 there.

And he may get fired next year if he misses the NCAAT again.

The AD at OSU already had to issue a statement of support this year.

UD2, you are continuing to throw all this out without giving any real fact or substance to your argument and without offering any better choices. You just keep repeating the same things over and over again. If I tell my boss I hate his idea, I better have good reasons and good alternatives. Who was a better choice? Why do you continue to only look at his time at Bama and not what he did at VCU? What is so "sketchy" about his past? Has he already said he is against the 15/15 H&A schedule?

What? We just hired a guy who has gobs of big time experience and has recruited at the highest level. I think you need to settle down a bit.

Avery Johnson landing Collin Sexton might be an indication that the NBA relationship holds some real value with recruits. But it's hard to tell the impact. Avery Johnson had his number retired by the Spurs, was named Sportsman of the Year and was named Coach of the Year in the NBA. Plus the name recognition of being on ESPN for a few years. That's a pretty good resume to take into a kid's living room and present to the family.

AG doesn't have that type of resume. I think the NBA portion of his resume is a selling point especially because OKC is high caliber/high visabiltiy team. Hopefully, he can sell it. And quickly. If his first few classes are good and we continue to get to tournament, it will become part of the narrative and something he can always build on.

I think it loses the value it has pretty quickly if he cannot leverage it in the first few recruiting classes (including transfers).

Totally agree with m21eagle45 and would like to see facts from UD2 and OSU Flyer. Here are some facts:

(1) Anthony Grant's average kenpom rating is almost the same as Archie Miller's whereas Brian Gregory's was materially lower. BG's average kenpom rating was 87 in 8 years at Dayton with a range of 26 to 131; Archie Miller's average kenpom rating in 6 years was 53 with a range of 39 to 59; Anthony Grant's average knepom rating at VCU/Bama was 58 with a range of 26 to 86.

(2) Anthony Grant took VCU to a much higher level than Jeff Capel whereas Shaka Smart moved it up nicely, but not close to the jump made by Grant. Capel averaged #107 in kenpom and #4 in conference play. Grant took that up +48 spots to #59 average in kenpom and #1 in conference play. Shaka kept the momentum going, but it slowed down increasing +21 spots to #38 average but decreasing - 2 spots in conference to an average of #3.

(3) Grant is a great recruiter and now his OKC experience will . Grant has had great classes at both VCU and Alabama. Just one example, he had the #6 class in the nation in 2013. http://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/...ecruiting.html

(4) I do think Archie is a better Xs and Os guys as he has won more close games and the feedback from players, assistants, and neutral observers is that Archie is a masterful strategist and tactician.

(5) Archie's record in the NCAA is better than Grant's, but Anthony had 3 of 4 games versus top 15 teams where he was 1-2; whereas Archie was 0-3 versus top 15 teams. Draw matters and Archie has had better overall draws. Archie was 5-4 in NCAA Tourney games whereas Anthony Grant is 1-3 in NCAA games, but two big caveats:
(a) Anthony played #10 Duke, #11, Pitt, #12 UCLA, and #28 Creighton -- Archie played #19 Ohio State, #18 Syracuse, #34 Stanford, #3 FL, #47 Boise State, #27 Providence, #11 Ok. St., #27 Syracuse, and #8 Wichita State. ARCHIE HAS NEVER BEATEN A TOP 15 TEAM IN THE NCAA TOURNEY, HE WAS 0-3. Anthony Grant was 1-2 versus top 15 teams in the NCAA Tourney and lost the other 2 games in OT and by 1. Archie honestly got killed by FL and OK, but Wichita St was close. Archie was 2-0 versus teams 16-25, Grant was 0-0, Archie was 3-1 versus teams 26-50 whereas Grant was 0-1.
(b) I would chalk it up to a combination of luck and skill, but Archie beat Ohio State by 1, Syracuse by 2, and Boise State by 1. Grant lost to Pitt in OT, UCLA by 1, and Creighton by 1. I truly believe Archie a better X and O coach, but he was lucky in these games and Grant was unlucky. A couple different bounces of the ball and Grant would be considered a much better coach.

I agree with other posters, let's get the facts on the table, not wild speculation.

Listening to Anthony on WLW he says he wants use experiences he picked up in OKC in the college game

Oh geez, here we go again, over and over and over again. I'd rather talk about the 15/15 schedule.

I posted a break down of Dennis Felton vs. Anthony Grant here
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=321

I look at bringing in the #6 recruiting class in the country and then getting fired speaks to something going wrong there.

As far as the Ken Pom. That's one data point. I look at his record and what happened at Alabama. The SEC was the weakest power 5 conference when has there. Mark Gottfried did better at Alabama than Anthony did his tenure by a wide margin. Alabama isn't an Auburn that's been a complete black hole. To explain away his time there as "it's a football school doesn't hold water"

In a weak SEC he had a losing record in conference play his last two years. Years 5 & 6 with his guys.

I've post various break downs of the coaches I like in various threads around here. I wrote a novel about John Brannen

Just a question regarding this point. Couldn't we say the same thing as regards to Oliver Purnell compared to Archie Miller. That he made a much higher jump than AM? That has as much to do with circumstances of the program at the time as great coaching and recruiting doesn't it?

This reminds me A LOT of the Sidney Lowe hire at NC State...gobbs of NBA experience as a player and coach...somewhat of a disaster at NC State though.

Lowe was a star player at NC State too I think...I think he was on their NCAA 1983 Champion team.

He took over for Sendek, who had gone to the tourney 5 years in a row, and Lowe goes 0 for 5.

Gottfried then comes in to replace Lowe and immediately goes to the NCAAT 4 years in a row.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidn...oaching_record



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NC_S...2.80.932014.29

Thank you!

While this is not an indication that Grant will be successful, it is absolutely an indication that calling the hire disastrous is utter foolishness. There was absolutely no candidate including Grant that was a lock, this cannot objectively be viewed as a bad hire. It's been a highly emotional week and there is plenty of room for differences of opinions. But most of our opinions are just gut feelings based on very limited insight... often based on the very limited insight of other people on this board. But the histrionics of a couple knuckleheads with no basis in fact really sucks especially when it targets one of our own.

Two quick side notes:

I lived down the hall from AG my Soph year. He was a nice polite kid (unlike me who chose my screen name for a reason).

Having lived and worked in Alabama for 4 years, I can say with complete confidence... it shouldn't be held against anyone!

Sweet!

Although your primary point is correct, I don't think the trajectory of VCU under Capel and UD under the guy before Purnell is the example to site in order to prove it.

Winning %

Capel .658
guy b4 Purnell .412

Uhhhh i was quoting others and have no idea what that has to do with the concept/argument we are having...

Pointless bickering... I'm being petty but we both need to get over it... lets actually look at AG AND how to grade him.... isn't that the point of the thread?

I listened to the entire interview while mowing the palatial lawn and it was worth it. Grant came across as excited, prepared and genuine. He must have used the word 'blessed' a dozen times. His words weren't coach speak, but actually came across as knowledgeable and honest. I can't imagine any recruit not being impressed with this man. I loved the hire when it was announced. I royally loved it after hearing the interview.

Go Flyers!

King Rollo the Blessed....OUT!

I think you wasted your time gathering and presenting facts to those two.

Facts get in the way of their posting opinion (if that really is what it is).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis...oaching_record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthon...oaching_record

It was a good interview you could tell he really wanted to be here

Any link to the interview?
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But who's to say that if AG stayed at VCU that he wouldn't have continued the upward trend as well, because after all the first few years of Shaka's were many of AG's guys.

We got killed by Florida and Oklahoma??? I must have watched different games than you that year because the Florida game was within striking distance until the last two minutes or so and if I recall we were ahead of Oklahoma by 9 with about ten minutes left to play. Please correct me if I am wrong.

OK John you can give it up. The HC vacancy is closed now.

By the way here is some of his resume:

2009–2013 Alabama (asst.)
2013–2015 Alabama (assoc. HC)
2015 Alabama (interim)

Do we see any tie in here Hmmmmmmmmm?

Gee if AG was so bad how come JB didn't help the situation improve. Oh! I know got to the HL which has been double digit in RPI conference where things just might be easier. Or, I call his luck factor recently as well lucky ...

But Sidney Lowe had never coached in college before he got the NC State job whereas AG already has ample experience, much of it that was successful, in the college game.

He took a team transitioning from D2 that had a RPI of around 300 & by year two with is guys had them to an RPI 87 (Around Richmond's level). He improved their RPI over 200 points in 2 years with his own guys at a school that came from over the Atlantic Sun.

The proof is in the pudding. That's a good coaching job connection to Grant or not

This is the priority I was hoping for, and the one I will forever believe Arch stumbled on out of the gate.

First, I think it's a great day to be a Flyer. In my opinion this is a FANtastic hire with emphasis on FAN. That's my opinion and I realize there is a small percentage that disagrees with it.

All that said, I'd like to make a suggestion. We've had today to put our 2-cents worth into a post. Only time will tell how this all plays out. My opinions are subjective as are yours. But what makes Flyer fans so unique and special is they have supported this program through the highs and lows. So my suggestion is starting on Friday, how about we table all the speculative pluses and minuses of our new head coach, and move to supporting this hire and program like fans have done for decades. Let's table the good hire-bad hire discussion and move forward to discussing the pros and cons of what he actually DOES as he gets to work to get this program to the next level. And you can disagree with his actions and moves. But the hire is done. Anthony Grant is now leading the Flyer Nation's men's basketball program. The only thing I'm going to focus on is what he DOES starting tomorrow and the day after.

Go Flyers!

Whoa Nelly! Facts are starting to show. So what about the others on this prestigious list you presented. Since all those listed would have been better than the hire we have.

I completely disagree with this. We were up 9 on OK in the second half! Darrell had 5 threes! We lost that game, OK did not win it, IMO. Also Florida was a pretty close game. Not sure how you can say we "got killed" by either of those teams.

So the only good hire would have been Ostrum, Kuwik or Griffin?

Because any head coach was coming from lower ranks if they had not been previously fired. The least sketchy would have been Crean and there is little indication he had any interest in the job.

I don't disagree with promoting assistants. But all the assistants would have question marks. None have been on lists for head jobs. Why not?

Personally I think you read way too much into Alabama. If it means that much please explain guys like McDermott, Alford.
Posted via Mobile Device

That's one year. Tell me what you thought of Jim O'Brien in June of 1990.

Nobody knows how any hire turns out. They all have risks. Schools are different, resources different, cultures different.

If Alabama has moderate expectations, has no issues winning, etc then explain Gottfriesa last 3 years. From 5 straight NCAA to nada.
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Florida really wasn't that close. They got a decent lead early, Dayton had a run and I think took the lead but Florida closed the half on a run and had about a 10 point lead at half. Then Florida opened a big lead in second half - sixteen to twenty points. Dayton had a run to get to around 8 and had some chances to get closer but never hit the big shot. Ended about 12. It was close like Georgetown was close in 1984. The game really was in little doubt.

Now Oklahoma was close.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sheesh....you guys act like a bunch of 7 grade little girls arguing over a little boy! For God sake, AG is our coach now, if you're a UD fan, get behind the guy and stop the what if's. Stuff is getting hard to read.....

Link to WHIO's special the aired tonight on the Anthony Grant's hire:

https://www.facebook.com/whionews/vi...1328599898699/

I'm OK with the hire even though I think Crean is twice the coach AG is. I'd have gone after Crean. Whether they approached Crean we won't know until AG moves on. If he does. I seriously hope we get the VCU coach and not the Alabama coach. All the chatter about not being able to win after Saban was hired is laughable. He had a top-5 class. You can't have both sides of the argument. I'm not as convinced as UD2 or OSUFLYER but I feel there was at least one superior candidate.
Edit: I mean concerning established coaches. I originally wanted two of the three top assistants, though an unconventional hire. I've changed my mind.

Let's at least honor the dead.

Yeah, that was a very class-less quote. At the very least insensitive..

Link to the WLW interview:

http://700wlw.iheart.com/onair/lance...yers-15697206/

I just got done watching this. It was good to see some of the old footage from my days back at the U. Good times!

I actually enjoyed the segments when they were off the TV air and commented on FB posts. They were more honest and didn't sugar coat their comments nearly as much.

Another interesting point I took away from watching the show was that a year of coaching in the NBA is equivalent to about five years in college. It's simple math but I had never thought about it this way.

I'm really glad AG is back home. He is one awesome human being and will be embraced and supported by the fans and community. Depending on what happens with the recruits, it might take him a while to get going, but I think there's a strong likelihood he will be successful at UD.