Jordan Pierce disciplined
 

David Jablonski@DavidPJablonski
2m2 minutes ago

Jordan Pierce didn't make the trip to Richmond with the Flyers. He was held back for disciplinary reasons.

hmm. Interesting

Not surprising. Saw him acting up in HS.

He's the enigma. No one seems know to or if he is any good or expected to be. He played in two games logging virtually no time, apparently using up a year of eligibility.

I remember that crazy HS incident that appeared to be incited by him last year. Who knows what he did or if anybody would have realized it had Jablonski not reported it.

Still don't understand why he played 4 minutes instead of red shirting.

Seriously, are you being facetious ? It's pretty clear to me that AG has assessed his skills and has purposely limited this experiment to 3 years or less, and at the same time ended all the distraction about red shirting.

So you're saying AG burned a whole year a kid could play just so he wouldn't use one of UD's scholarships for an extra year. That's a crappy thing to do to a kid if that's the reason.

Also how is redshirting a player a distraction? Just say he's redshirting and then if you have a rash of injuries and need him to play you take the red shirt off.

If he's not good enough AG should be up front with him and tell him he should transfer so he could find a school where he could have the chance to play eventually. That way the scholarship is available much sooner.

But 4 minutes of playing time halfway through the season is the definition of a kid who should have been red shirted.

Who? :angryfire:

Check back around June. Every coach has his own way of doing things.

I'm fine if AG sends him(or anybody else) packing in June if he doesn't want him around. I just don't think he should have burned a whole year of the kids eligibility by having him play 4 minutes in 2 games

He will have lost a year anyway if he would have red shirted and then transferred. There are no guarantees you will play when you sign on the dotted line.

You saw him play in high school against the best schools in NJ?

You were there for his fight with the Pat's school mac all American?

Or is it that you saw the same 8 second video of "the fight" with absolutely no other video or published info to make your conclusion?

Either way. This seems to validate it.
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I agree with John. What difference does it make? If he redshirts and then transfers, he still loses a year of eligibility.

Are you proposing that AG should have had him reclassify to the class of 2018 and enroll elsewhere next year, in order to avoid burning a year of eligibility? I do not think you can do that after you have enrolled, can you?

I suppose that he could have transferred after the first semester, that way he only loses a half year of eligibility(the first semester of this year).

Regardless, I hope that he stays here, and that things work out in the end.

It takes two sides to redshirt a player. If you forcibly redshirt a player who isn't interested in redshirting, he's going to be worthless to you. I'm guessing a conversation took place and AG probably asked if he'd be interested in redshirting. Pierce asks AG, what happens if I'm not? AG says "well, as of now I don't plan on using you for a whole lot of minutes but if you're not interested in redshirting, I'll use you when I feel it's warranted."

Heck, AG might have told him that he sees no significant minutes during the first part of season and that could change based on his progress and needs later on. Then asked would he prefer to redshirt. Pierce says he'd rather play when ever possible.

So I'm guessing the decision was up to Pierce. Once he says he doesn't want to redshirt, you really can't redshirt him anyhow or he'd be ****ed.

I get the impression we don't know the full story of what's going on here.
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There are many reasons as to why we are seeing what we are seeing. But one thing is crystal clear, he obviously isn't good enough to get minutes on a short roster with two bigs. That is all I need to know. The rest of the stuff will work itself out. I would imagine a player that doesn't see floor, and won't see the floor next season, will likely explore other options unless they drastically improve in the off season.

Big men are slower to develop and many if not most of the guys we get are gonna projects. Not unheard of for it to take a couple seasons for a big man to get going

It's possible there's something there talent wise but off the court stuff is holding him back.

Situation is a little different but Trey Landers was an afterthought last year & turned into something.
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Pierce not redshirting is a math problem. We are already down three scholarship players and had two injuries early on in the year (X and Trey). People on this board sometimes let their desire to be "right" get in the way of basic abilities like counting.

Trey Landers ..... most felt he was a bust .... now an indispensable leader ???

We fans are really fickled

It matters not how many players on the roster, if they want to redshirt him, all they have to do is not play him all year. They don't have to declare it ahead of time.

Despite the limited roster, especially the lack of size in the post, he's seen zero minutes at any key point of any game. They could have simply not played him those worthless 4(?) minutes he's had this season and he's still be able to redshirt if that is what they wanted. It would be one thing if CAG decided that he could play a little bit, but the best thing for all parties involved would be to redshirt and develop him for a year, but since he's seen action, its quite clear that CAG doesn't believe he can help at all this season. Perhaps he still believes in his future, perhaps Jordan didn't want to redshirt, and perhaps he makes huge strides over the offseason and provides solid minutes next year and even more down the road.

There is nothing to suggest Pierce is worth redshirting but hypothetically, if he came down with a phantom injury couldn't he still be redshirted since he is under the threshold for games played?

Maybe he could go to the College of Southern Idaho?

Actually I don't believe "most felt....". More like a very negative and very loud few. Many of the same fans who thought, and maybe still think, Landers is too short for the position. Just like Kyle was too short. His performance against a very pedestrian Spider team isn't the end-all, but it sure bids well for the future.

But we digress. OSU Flyer is most surely correct about Jordan's situation. There is plenty going on here beneath the surface. And there would be little to gain by revealing it to the public.

Just to soothe some fan's feelings, I also suspect the saga will be punctuated with, "..and we will help you get placed in a program more suited to your development".

rhetorical question...
 

I'd be more concerned about My Flyers if Joey Gruden were the one left behind. But it's Jordan Pierce...so why is it an issue?

Fans, who still think there are set positions, especially in Grant's offense are living back in the day. It is now about a point guard and some mix of bigs and non-bigs, but most players are interchangeable drill bits.

I didn’t understand TL getting hardly any minutes last year at all because literally everytime he saw the floor he hustled- and it made zero sense to me ( at the time). Now, looking back at the bigger picture of what our former coach was trying to accomplish ( his own resume) the development or lack-there-of (TL) makes perfect sense since obviously he can ball. Trey looks like not only the “glue” to this team but more like the “Super Glue” of this team.
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Trey didn't play last year because of his results on defense. It wasn't for a lack of athletic ability or effort. I said it during last season and this off season. He learned from last year and is making up for it tenfold this year.

And with us in the second half of the season, I believe he could medically redshirt, if there were an injury, in the second half of the season just as long as no minutes are played in the 2nd half. He also didn't hit any minute thresholds in the first half of the season.

Lot of truth there but if you look at last year's roster, Trey just didn't fit in as an off the bench backup to anyone. We had 3 big men(played the big positions) in Pollard, Miller and Cunningham. We had 2 big/medium tweeners in Mikesell and Williams, we had Baby D and Cooke to play the 2 and 3 positions and we had Kyle in the 2 position and Scooch and Crosby at PG. That's 10 moving parts already which pretty much relegated Trey to the first walk-on off the bench position. Trey pretty much became Wehrli's replacement from the season before. Wehrli however got more minutes the prior year due to injury of Pollard and suspension of Pierre and freshman not being ready to handle big responsibilities early in the season.

Hopefully AM made it clear to Trey that he was going to have a very small role for the team his freshman season when he recruited him.

We easily could have played the final three minutes of the first half against Miss State without Pierce if we wanted to redshirt him. Right or wrong, the situation is odd. That wasn't the first or last game where we could have used a couple minutes because of injuries/foul trouble.

Everything is always Archie's fault. WIDBA. When in doubt, blame Archie.

Different coaches effect players in different ways. Grant is making Landers into a stud, while Williams is struggling. DD is a better player. It will be interesting to see Mikesell next year.

AM would've had to know he was leaving after the season to have that as his motivation not to let players develop. I doubt that very much while I believe he did know he'd be leaving within 2 years. I, who you know has been an AM supporter thick and thin, do believe he decided that his favorite class of seniors was going to determine their own fate and the others were there for injuries and breathers.

I personally feel that this dedication to his senior class was wrong, especially where Baby D is concerned. Since seeing his high school highlights and the day he stepped foot on the college court, I always believed he could be the player he is today. Actually better because if AM would've been fair to him, he might be even further along. I too thought Trey was getting the shaft a little also but not as much when you look that he was an only freshman tweener 11th on the depth chart. Heck, if the tragedy to Big Steve didn' thappen, he would've been 12th on the depth chart. Trey is now showing that if his development was hampered by so little playing time, it wasn't hampered by much.

I think the opposite happened with Crosby. Crosby was the one who needed to see less playing time in the grand scheme of things and could have been brought up at a slower pace had Khari Price stayed at UD, been senior during Crosby's freshman season, and did most of the playing during Scoochie's breathers. That just wasn't in the cards. Crosby was just not advanced or mature enough to be developed the way Scoochie was and probably needed to be 2nd PG off the bench rather than first his freshman season.

Maybe I just don't remember but I don't think I saw Trey in enough, (any), non garbage time last year to form an opinion about his defense. He certainly plays good D now. I guess I could buy that his defense was bad in practice and that is why he didn't play but given his mix of attitude and God given gifts, I just can't imagine something lacking from that kid's defensive effort. Maybe just no room for him in the rotation last year.

Trey was also dealing with a sports hernia last year, so that may have inhibited some of his growth.

I go to sleep and work and this thread goes wild. LOL

I hadn't thought of it the way John stated(my bad) but that is correct if he transfers it really doesn't matter if he redshirted this year because he will still have 3 years to play at that school after sitting 1.

I guess the only way that it would truly matter is if he doesn't transfer and then ends up being a productive player for UD. (Doesn't everybody on here tell me to be more patient with coaches & players and allow them time to develop ;) ) Then everybody might be looking back and asking why did he play 4 minutes his freshman year that prevented us from having him for another season.

Couldn’t be happier with baby d this year and agree his high school highlights were crazy good—Izzo felt the same when we nabbed him. However his turnovers last year in crucial situations eg wichita state are still in memory. Scoochie was a safer bet and Kyle was a beast. Heck grant felt more comfortable with even Crosby last night after Crutcher had those late TOs...kids grow up...DD looks stronger and decisive this year. Couldn’t be happier with our future guard situation-JD, Crutcher, and this Cleveland kid coming. Hopefully with the freshman minutes had A 10 tourney will be interesting this year and our ticket in!
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There are a lot of assumptions Most extremely negative regarding the disciplining of Pierce and the expected aftermath or even the prelude to the disciplining. Unless someone knows the actual violation of the team rules which led to the disciplining I am not sure where this speculation leads.

That is AG might have a lower opinion of Pierce than AM's opinion when he recruited him, Or he and AM might have the same opinion that he is a project who could be a big asset to the team two or three years down the road. I remember on this message board that there were a large number of posters who were writing off big Steve as he sat through his first year. Dayton is not going to get the polished seven footer and if there is one position where luck in development (no guarantees) it is in the big center position, The potential benefits to the team if the recruit becomes a good player out weighs the a lot more negatives that might make a coach back away from a guard or short forward.

Further the reason for the disciplining would presumably be a violation of an AG rule. This would have nothing to do with AG's opinion of Pierce but we could if we are so inclined to think negatively of AG believe he disciplined Pierce much more harshly than he would TL for violation of that rule.

And yet you blame everything on AG, imply that he is too strict, and that he had that same problem at Alabama. Most would praise a coach for disciplining a player when needed, realizing we don't know why he was disciplined.

Ralph Hill 2.0

Or, at Pierce’s size, 2.7.
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Big men take time to develop. Let’s wait and see. Too early to speculate.

He got some spurts at the beginning of the season and was a step slow on D. Slow on the rotations and slow on ball D. After those chances (primarily the Nebraska game), there wasn't really a place in the lineup for him and I think that his only shot at increasing minutes, albeit not by many, hinged on his D. Obviously he is a new player this season and there are many reasons for that.

Trey at least got opportunity in garbage time and showed flashes of what he can do. Pierce isn't even getting garbage time (although there hasn't been much of it). That is the concerning part.

While these stats aren't saying much, they do say something for comparison sake. Trey had 5.8 mpg and had 3 ppg and 1.5 rpg in those limited garbage minutes. Probably the most "garbage time" production you will see. You could still see that he was going to turn into a good player. Pierce at this point in time, hasn't even sniffed at the floor but in 2 games for a total of 4 minutes. I just find it really hard to believe that there hasn't been a point where a serviceable 6'11'' dude hasn't had an opportunity for some minutes when we literally have two bigs that are still undersized for their position. I guess time will tell.

I think we are going to need 5 more big man fouls on Friday vs VCU.

Yes. To give you an example (one I've used often), Sean Finn was atrocious as a freshman. Just terrible. If you threw him the ball, he'd turn it over immediately. Usually a traveling violation. But by his junior year, Sean Finn was a darn good center. It's really difficult to tell what you have with a young, raw big. It just takes time for them to figure out what to do with that big frame.

transfer guaranteed!!!!!

If I remember correctly, Finn agreed to come to UD only after he received assurances from Purnell that he would not be reshirted.

Wonder if Pierce was still under discipline. This had to be a hard one for him knowing this would've been a game he could've seen 5 minutes or more.

Plus it was his Birthday... eesh lol

Ouch, that sucks for him. Sucks for me too because I have yet to see him play and was hoping I would.

FWIW, Larry and Bucky just shared a tidbit of information regarding Jordan that is an eye opener. It appears the coaches are asking him to work harder at practice, and when asked, he literally is walking off the court! So if anyone asks why he's not playing, it's not because UD gave up on him...he's giving up on UD and himself.

See ya!

My Flyers deserve better. :whiteflag:

If true, another scholarship will be open. Lord knows we need the help

Well that settles that. You know it has to be bad if Larry and Bucky shared that on air.

I think we can stop worrying about Pierce. On the postgame show Larry just revealed that several times in practice when Grant has asked him to step up he’s walked off the court. Bucky further clarified that Devin Davis has asked him “a hundred times” to do things but he’s walked off the court back to the locker room on several occasions. Barring an unbelievable turnaround in attitude and in the classroom I think it’s safe to say we have 2 scholarships open fir next year instead of just Miller’s.
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I just really hope this year is a combination youth/chemistry/new system issue.

I hope Anthony is successful in finding a quality player to fill Pierce's scholly.

Beaten by a delayed feed and typing on my iPhone. Hee hee
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So down another big. Anyone seen or heard of how O Toppin is doing at practice?

Reading the tea leaves from recruiting, they must be happy with him & Miksell because it doesn't seem like Posts/Big Fowards are getting any interest from us
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I'm super excited to see what he's got next year... Crazy talented but raw

Must be going around. Our bigs have suffered this season by delayed feeds.

But really, it's tough on everyone when a kid gives up on himself. The coaches and squad spend so much time together throughout a season, and then have to deal with a middle school distraction like this. How does Jordan think this is going to help land him in a better situation going forward.

Also I know it's stupid but he is always pumped on the bench, into everything... being excited, etc.

I fully expect him to work hard, play with energy, etc... Yes please

Okay, I will say the obvious, I hope Toppin can rebound and play D.

Poster child for the snowflakes.

He's not thinking. Because if he's gone next year, he'll have to sit out unless he goes Div II or Div III. Two years removed from basketball and not wanting to work hard just puts you in an impossible spot.

Deuces bruh.

When a work ethic thing rears it's ugly head it exposes quite a bit. Given the fact his effort sucks in practice, he obviously doesn't care about his future. He shouldn't have ****ed the season away and walked at Christmas...he could have at least separated himself from the program if he didn't care.

The exact quote from Larry and Bucky as posted by John Bedell(Flyer Feedback host) on Twitter

https://twitter.com/JBedellWHIO/stat...34093916729344

This program doesn’t need that. This program is better than that. This program deserves better than that. If you’re not willing to step up and put forth an effort, then I don’t want you representing my team. Good bye. :angryfire:
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That's the strongest rebuke I've ever heard of someone on the team. I'd guess that he's only still around for APR purposes
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Good bye Mr. Pierce. No one owes you anything. Sounds like the coaches are doing all they can. Desire comes from within.

Yep. That’s a ‘ship that should be available by mid-March. Sorry to hear that he doesn’t give a rat’s arse. Reminds me of a quote I heard years ago, attributed to Kenyon Martin, the former UC All-American. The reporter was asking him about his great work ethic, and Martin said something like, “If you don’t work hard, you wind up like that”, and he gestured in the direction of his teammate, Donald Little. Who? Exactly!
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Bucky and Larry put that horse to bed today. At least we all know what's up now. Sad.

I'm surprised that they would report such a thing. They not only threw him under the bus, they backed up. I'm even more surprised that he's even on the team.

They didn't throw him under the bus. He walked in front of it. If you don't want to play for Dayton, then leave.

Good-bye Felicia!

If nothing else I hope it puts to rest the chatter on this board about how Coach Grant must be poor coach to play the kid 2 minutes in the season and throw away a redshirt oppty. This explains a lot.

I hope the next time a poster is tempted to throw out some equally silly criticism out here (like "CAG can't even draw up a simple offensive play") we pause a minute and think it through first.

Actually, at this point, I give the coaches credit for trying to continue working with the kid, in the hope that the light bulb will finally come on with him. But I support Coach Grant fully in keeping him on the bench. Playing time is a privilege that’s earned, not a right that’s bestowed. Work to earn it, or pick up your bus ticket and leave. Those are your choices.
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Some kids have a really hard time acclimating to college life and being away from home for the first time. JP may have expected to be coddled a little bit more than he was and probably didn't find much sympathy among his teammates or coaches. Just because a kid is large in stature, doesn't mean he's a tough kid or can't get separation anxiety. IMHO, it's probably a good sign the kid hasn't walked off the court and gone back home or that AG hasn't tossed him from the team. So, maybe there is still some hope of his coming around, getting comfortable with his surroundings and contributing. A kid in turmoil is sad to see...let's hope he gets over whatever is bothering him.

If he doesn't finish the semester Dayton gets an APR hit
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No worries as Huggy Bear’s jet has been spotted at Dayton-Wright Brothers Airport. Please join me in wishing all involved well in their future endeavors, unless you don’t 🤗
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Found this little nugget on the Next College Student Athlete website:

(emphasis added)

http://www.ncsasports.org/mens-baske...jordan-pierce6

Now, it could all just be a bunch of BS someone put together for him, or there could be more to this story. Either way, sad that he and Anthony are at this point now.

Heard at the game today, from someone who I believe is in the know, that OT is the best player on the court in practice. God, I hope that's true, and I hope someone out there can back that observation up.

Also, towards the end of the game today, did anyone else catch the exchange between Crosby and Cunningham. Is was at the time out right after Cunningham got up slowly. They were getting a bit heated all the way into the time out huddle. Looked like Crosby finally put out his hand and Cunningham didn't respond. Hope it's nothing more than frustration in the heat of battle.

Looks like they took the quote down. I went to Bedell's Twitter page and no mention of it there either.

Bucky put it out there for all to see. Could be people were bugging him about Pierce so he had enough or by putting it out there Pierce can no longer hide. I watch him a fair amount in warm-ups and there is very little energy put forth. Also he shoots almost a straight ball with very little arch along with shooting off of the palm of his hand. Might of worked in high school when he was taller and bigger than everyone else but he is in college now.

As far as transferring and playing for someone else it is my guess it will be a division 3 program. What was said on the radio will follow him everywhere-
The gauntlet has been thrown down and he has to have a mind set change. I really don't understand the walking off the court thing.

He really needs some counseling along with a kick in the butt. Hope he gets his life turned around.

I think of Big Steve who I saw out running several times in the summer, past Ester Price I may add, without stopping. I loved that big kid who made everyone a friend. God Bless him

I had a feeling (at first) that his non appearances were possibly due to grades/academic problems and AG wasn't taking a chance on him being declared ineligible in the first semester - thereby having to forfeit games. Sad to hear it's this. But it's not too late JP. Start working hard, understand you have the opportunity of a lifetime, do your best and you'll get the opportunity. I sure wish I was 7' and could break backboards...

There are enough garbage D1 and D2 schools that need a big and don't care what baggage comes with it.

"...garbage D1 and D2 schools..." Care to name any names in your opinion who fit the description?

Maybe Larry & Bucky were leaking something that could not be done directly by others, such as the head coach and the athletic department. Did Joey Gruden get in before JP yesterday?

JP may not realize it but AG could be doing him a favor by keeping him on the team and at least playing him once in a while. If AG were to dismiss him from the team, I am sure that coaches ever at "garbage D1 and D2 schools" have enough headaches without bringing in another one even if he has basketball talent. Put forth your best effort here so that other coaches and schools will want you.

It's a shame that some young men don't realize what opportunities they have been given or when they do have others trying to direct them in the right direction, they blow the advice and assistance off.

There are plenty. Take a look at a conference such as the Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference. Made up of DII schools. You have teams that offer scholarships and are typically filled with DIII type players that have a bit more size. I just pulled a roster from one of the worst teams in that conference....two tallest guys are 6'6''. That is DIII size. The worst of the worst in DI still need bodies. There are really bad schools across the country that scrap the bottom of the talent pool to fill rosters...rosters that rotate frequently due to frustrations to being glorified HS teams. Schools that have a basketball program just to have a basketball program. 98% of college basketball fans haven't seen these schools or even paid attention to them. Having seen some of these DII schools in person...yes...they exist.

I agree that players don't know how good they have it until it is gone. The issue here is that he isn't even playing "once in a while". He isn't even being rewarded with garbage minutes to reward hard work by the scout team. You have Svoboda getting "real" minutes and he is playing with the scout team at the end of games....not the guy that has 4 minutes of PT this year.

If that doesn't paint a picture, I don't know what will. With the comments made and what we have seen....lost cause. If he has the will or desire to play, he can find a school in need of a big that is willing to take the risk associated with it.

If Scott and Robinson can transfer...and Sam Miller...anyone from UD can transfer.

Here is what I don't understand, Larry said JP is blatantly disrespecting AG in practice and walking off why he is talking, yet AG is letting him dress for home games, that don't add up, no coach is going to allow a player to basically say F U and then let him dress, anyone ??
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If you kick him off the team or don't let him dress he probably quits school & Dayton takes the APR hit
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Disagree, no way AG just lets him disrespect and do what he wants do we can keep up our APR, if that's true would u want that in a head coach?
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I have a feeling the UD Admin may be driving the “You have to keep him on the team, as long as he isn’t violating the student handbook” bus here. I believe the APR is a big issue with the University brass, and they don’t want to see that damaged by anything that’s not a violation of University policy. If that’s true, then Grant’s backed into a corner where his best answer is “I’ll dress him, but I won’t play him.”

All supposition, but entirely plausible.
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Wonder why they took it down. They've removed the cork and allowed the genie to escape. I'm more surprised they discussed it and posted it at all. Once it was up, it no longer mattered.

Yeah, look at any D-I Conference where the conference champion averages an RPI of 80 or worse, and then look at the schools that regularly finish in the middle (or below) of that conference’s standings. The cost/benefit of extending a ‘ship to damaged goods like Pierce (or Miller, or Scott, or Robinson) points in the direction of “What do we have to lose?” And some of those programs will answer “Not much”, and offer the kid a second chance.
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I bet UD asked Bedell to take it down. I didn't think it was that controversial so I didn't screen shot it. I guess I should have.

Edit: Okay I found the audio since Bedell took down his tweet. It starts at the 2:58:50 mark of the broadcast. And I downloaded it in case UD tells WHIO to edit out the part about Pierce.

http://www.whio.com/sports/dayton-fl...yyHQTZFm63ntK/

$$$$$

If Grant's salary is similar to Archie's, a lot of his initial salary is tied to the APR and is paid as a "bonus" to him.

Obidiah seems to have the tools to be good. But really when is the last time we red-shirted a new recruit and someone "in the know" says the guy doesn't have game? There is a lot of self-feeding folklore about how good guys are going to be. And I still remember the report that Thiago Cordiero averaged 6 blocks a game at Whistle Stop U and was going to be our next Perryman. Look no further than how many posters were thinking Kostas was going to suit up and play like Giannis his Freshman year. I'd be happy if OT was good enough to push someone for a starting position giving AG some bench options.

D1 is a lot tougher than some players may anticipate.

Well, handbook aside, you cannot let this kid have a scholarship next year. Strip it from him and he can go back to NJ and think about the tremendous life opportunity he is missing.