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-   Mens Basketball (http://www.udpride.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Dayton hires Anthony Grant (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30808)

priceg75 03-30-2017 10:45 PM

Feel like this is a high floor, medium ceiling hire. Probably one of the best we could do. Feel like Crean would've been similar, but I don't think he was ever in the running. Do I think Grant is going to get us to the Final 4? No I don't. Am I going to support the crap out of him? Yes I am.

Feel like many of the other names are pretty much low floor, higher ceiling potentials​. But the problem is you run the same risk as Archie... Probably worse. How many of you thought Archie would stay THREE MORE YEARS after the Elite 8 run? If you did, you're naive. But you are also running the risk of a spectacular JOB style flame out. And that could set the program back literally decades.

I am good running the risk of a guy who has a great recruiting track record, has ties to the university, and previous NCAA success vs some of the fliers we were thinking about taking. It's probably the safe move, but I don't know that there was a home run out there waiting to be hit.

Feel like the other candidates were all a much lower floor possibility than AG.

The thing I like most about this is, I am not stressed about keeping the recruits. We may lose a couple... But I think we will replace them with equally good or better players. Say what you want about Archie, but his ability was in player development not acquisition. In order to get to an elite level, you have to start getting better players. I think AG can do that, and that's a start.

As much as VCU thinks they're God's gift to basketball, at least they recognize that AG got most of the players that got them to that final 4.

Looking forward to AG and a successful tenure, even if we do struggle a bit next year. It was always going to be that way with losing the class we just lost.

ruechalgrin 03-30-2017 10:55 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 501189)
But who's to say that if AG stayed at VCU that he wouldn't have continued the upward trend as well, because after all the first few years of Shaka's were many of AG's guys.

We got killed by Florida and Oklahoma??? I must have watched different games than you that year because the Florida game was within striking distance until the last two minutes or so and if I recall we were ahead of Oklahoma by 9 with about ten minutes left to play. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I retract the Oklahoma point, but quadruple down on FL. Fair point about Oklahoma and had 25-30% chance to win with 5 minutes to go. Versus FL, Dayton had a 2-3% chance to win at halftime and never exceeded a 5% chance the 2nd half. In fact, the last 10 minutes of the game, Dayton bumped around among 1-2-3% chance to win.

Added the win probability charts below.

Jeff 03-30-2017 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Goode (Post 500863)
Now the first thing he should do is get Donovan and Russell Westbrook to call these new guys and get them excited to play for him. We desparately need to retain as many recruits as possible.

I'm on it.

ruechalgrin 03-30-2017 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 501174)
Just a question regarding this point. Couldn't we say the same thing as regards to Oliver Purnell compared to Archie Miller. That he made a much higher jump than AM? That has as much to do with circumstances of the program at the time as great coaching and recruiting doesn't it?

Legitimate point Smitty. Kenpom stats only go back to 2002 so could not do the compare with OP. But I think AG is equal to or better when comparing program improvement between Grant at VCU and Archie at UD.

Archie Miller was +34 going from an average kenpom ranking of #87 under Brian Gregory to #53 during Archie's reign at UD.

Anthony Grant was +48 going from an average kenpom ranking of #107 under Jeff Capel to #59 during AG's reign at VCU.

You could cut the data so many ways, but I think this is a very apples to apples compare.

Jeff 03-30-2017 11:12 PM

I cant get too excited about this one. Does anyone have any info / data on how AG teams stacked up on O & D? Did they improve? Archie & staff seemed to really develop the talent they recruited. Really like to know if AG has demonstrated that ability in his previous stints.

longtimefan 03-30-2017 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA (Post 501197)
First, I think it's a great day to be a Flyer. In my opinion this is a FANtastic hire with emphasis on FAN. That's my opinion and I realize there is a small percentage that disagrees with it.

All that said, I'd like to make a suggestion. We've had today to put our 2-cents worth into a post. Only time will tell how this all plays out. My opinions are subjective as are yours. But what makes Flyer fans so unique and special is they have supported this program through the highs and lows. So my suggestion is starting on Friday, how about we table all the speculative pluses and minuses of our new head coach, and move to supporting this hire and program like fans have done for decades. Let's table the good hire-bad hire discussion and move forward to discussing the pros and cons of what he actually DOES as he gets to work to get this program to the next level. And you can disagree with his actions and moves. But the hire is done. Anthony Grant is now leading the Flyer Nation's men's basketball program. The only thing I'm going to focus on is what he DOES starting tomorrow and the day after.

Go Flyers!

I nominate this for post of the year! And I hope a couple of posters have read it very carefully.

FlyingArrow 03-30-2017 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 501086)
I think Flying Arrow's point is that when you make a statement like that, for it to be relevant would mean that it's Archie's fault that the big men didn't work out. You can argue that Scott and Robinson were never high character guys and AM should've never brought them to Dayton. You can argue that Gavrilovik was not a skilled big man. But, and I know you know this, you can't argue that there was anything AM could've done to have Big Steve be here for 4 seasons and on this earth beyond.

In actuality, AM had 3 seasons without a legitimate big player and all of them were due to unforeseen circumstances. One being the expulsion of Kavs, another the expusions of Scott and Robinson. And the other being the tragic death of Big Steve.

You're correct that they didn't work out, but in no way do I think that means for a second that AM will always have trouble getting needed big men on his teams.

And in fact, for one season, Big Steve did work out. We went to the NCAA tournament and he holds the UD record for blocked shots in a season.

ruechalgrin 03-30-2017 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 501173)
I posted a break down of Dennis Felton vs. Anthony Grant here
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=321

I look at bringing in the #6 recruiting class in the country and then getting fired speaks to something going wrong there.

As far as the Ken Pom. That's one data point. I look at his record and what happened at Alabama. The SEC was the weakest power 5 conference when has there. Mark Gottfried did better at Alabama than Anthony did his tenure by a wide margin. Alabama isn't an Auburn that's been a complete black hole. To explain away his time there as "it's a football school doesn't hold water"

In a weak SEC he had a losing record in conference play his last two years. Years 5 & 6 with his guys.

I've post various break downs of the coaches I like in various threads around here. I wrote a novel about John Brannen

Kenpom, Sagarin, KPI, etc. are all good advanced metric tools that normalize for competition, location of games, etc. Very good predictive value of how good a team is and whether that team will win going forward.

Felton and Grant are not coaching in the same universe.

From 2002 to 2009 (kenpom only starts in 2002), Felton had an average kenpom ranking of #104 with a range of #44 to #205 finishing his 6th and final year at Georgia with a kenpom ranking of #198! Felton at Georgia had kenpom rankings of 76, 205, 107, 55, 91, and 198.

Grant's average rating at VCU/Bama was #58 with a range of #26 to #86 finishing his 6th and final year at Alabama with a kenpom ranking of #55. Grant at Alabama had kenpom rankings of 63, 51, 26, 63, 86, and 55.

OSU Flyer, with all due respect, Grant is a materially better coach than Felton. I would argue Felton statistically is about as close to Anthony Grant as Anthony Grant is to Roy Williams.

OSU Flyer 03-31-2017 12:31 AM

Ken Pom is one data point

A good comparison for Anthony is Dennis Felton who was just hired at Cleveland St. Felton is 53 and Grant is 50 and they both had a similar career trajectory.

Anthony got his start at VCU and had three good seasons there. Felton took over a similar program at Western Kentucky and rebuilt it vs inheriting an NBA player in Eric Maynor and a good situation like Grant. Felton took Western the NCAA's three years in a row and accepted the Georgia after the 02-03 season.

Both Anthony Grant and Felton spent six seasons in the SEC and each had a NCAA tourney appearance. Felton had 2 NIT trips and Grant 2 & was let go before his 3rd.

Felton took over Georgia got wiped out by Jim Harrick so his computers are gonna be low at the beginning of his career there. Felton was also in the far more competitive SEC East

OSU Flyer 03-31-2017 12:48 AM

It's just agree to disagree situation. I hope I'm completely wrong about Anthony and I eat crow

ruechalgrin 03-31-2017 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 501245)
Ken Pom is one data point

A good comparison for Anthony is Dennis Felton who was just hired at Cleveland St. Felton is 53 and Grant is 50 and they both had a similar career trajectory.

Anthony got his start at VCU and had three good seasons there. Felton took over a similar program at Western Kentucky and rebuilt it vs inheriting an NBA player in Eric Maynor and a good situation like Grant. Felton took Western the NCAA's three years in a row and accepted the Georgia after the 02-03 season.

Both Anthony Grant and Felton spent six seasons in the SEC and each had a NCAA tourney appearance. Felton had 2 NIT trips and Grant 2 & was let go before his 3rd.

Felton took over Georgia got wiped out by Jim Harrick so his computers are gonna be low at the beginning of his career there. Felton was also in the far more competitive SEC East

But that is the point of kenpom, it normalizes for competition, being in the SEC East for example. Normalizes for out-of-conference games. Felton's 5th and 6th years he ranked 91 and 198 which is terrible. Grant has never had a year below 86 and Felton had 4 of his 6 years below 86.

Basically all college coaches and ADs use kenpom as the college bible now of how good teams really are. It is hard to dismiss as one data point.

Grant had 2 #1 seeds in the NIT (remember Archie had 2 #11s seeds), an extra win each year and he is probably has 2 more NCAA appearances at Alabama (and an extra loss each year and Archie probably has 2 less NCAA appearances).

And Grant recruited the entire roster except for some bit players that Shaka took to the Final 4 so I don't know how you can dismiss his development of Maynor.

I do not know how Grant will turn out as a coach at UD. But he is materially better than Dennis Felton. He is not a disaster hire. And in fact the advanced analytics point to a coach just about as successful as Archie Miller, but AG has been a little unlucky and AM has been a little lucky.

OSU Flyer 03-31-2017 12:59 AM

I guess I go by the old Bill Parcels quote "you are what your record says you are"

OSU Flyer 03-31-2017 01:14 AM

Rule you said Archie & Grant have the same Kenpom average do you interpret that as them relatively equal coaches?

I look at AG's last two years at Alabama and seeing a losing record in SEC each year & near .500 career record in SEC play.

I want to get behind this hire because this feels right with him coming back to Dayton. I don't think it's irrational to look at that & have some pause. Why should that not concern me?

ud2 03-31-2017 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UDDoug (Post 501205)
So the only good hire would have been Ostrum, Kuwik or Griffin?

Because any head coach was coming from lower ranks if they had not been previously fired. The least sketchy would have been Crean and there is little indication he had any interest in the job.

I don't disagree with promoting assistants. But all the assistants would have question marks. None have been on lists for head jobs. Why not?

Personally I think you read way too much into Alabama. If it means that much please explain guys like McDermott, Alford.
Posted via Mobile Device

I apologize for all the complaining, but I am really upset by this hire.

Archie was not mentioned for any jobs either before he took over.

From what I have seen of him at Alabama, I think this was a poor hiring decision, I feel like he was only hired because he is an alumnus, his resume is not that strong IMO.

I feel like we have taken a definite step backwards.

We worked so hard to get to this point, and I feel like it has all been pi**ed away.

At least some of the other candidates that had no hc experience had an unknown ceiling.

I would have given the job to one of Archie's assistants. I also feel that a case could be made for John Brannen.

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.

podcast411 03-31-2017 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)
I apologize for all the complaining, but I am really upset by this hire.

Archie was not mentioned for any jobs either before he took over.

From what I have seen of him at Alabama, I think this was a poor hiring decision, I feel like he was only hired because he is an alumnus, his resume is not that strong IMO.

I feel like we have taken a definite step backwards.

We worked so hard to get to this point, and I feel like it has all been pi**ed away.

At least some of the other candidates that had no hc experience had an unknown ceiling.

I would have given the job to one of Archie's assistants. I also feel that a case could be made for John Brannen.

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.


Good lord - what the frack do you want - them to hire someone who retroactively brings us a national championship last year. You clearly have completely lost touch with reality. If you can't see the value long term and short term - your head is firmly stuck somewhere.

Lets put up the pro's.

1. NCAA championship ring as assistant and lead recruiter for a team that then went on to do what is almost considered unthinkable in Mens hoops - and won back to back championships

2. Experience coaching at the NBA level so he can talk about the NBA to recruits as he shines the light off his NCAA championship ring in their eyes.

3. A coach who can tell the recruits what it is like to run out the tunnel at UD arena and feel the roar of the crowd in your chest.

4. A Coach that does not look at UD as a stepping stone - but rather a destination.

5. A Former head coach in a Power 5 conference.

6. A Coach that has a proven track record of being a good decent human being - someone that cares about his players and coaches and people in general. Someone that does the right thing. Think opposite of Huggie bear.

7. Someone that is an alumni and loves his University.


If this is not something you can get excited about - good lord - throw your computer away - and buy a new one next year when conference season starts.

I am just shocked that VCU's board is more excited and happy for us then some "UD fans" are. This is a GREAT HIRE. All around no matter how you look at it - this is the Hire that takes us to the next level of Gonzaga and Wichita state where our coach sticks around and we are no longer anyone's stepping stone.

Really folks if you don't like this hire - burn your UD gear and buy some X clothing.

Smitty10 03-31-2017 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by podcast411 (Post 501252)
Good lord - what the frack do you want - them to hire someone who retroactively brings us a national championship last year. You clearly have completely lost touch with reality. If you can't see the value long term and short term - your head is firmly stuck somewhere.

Lets put up the pro's.

1. NCAA championship ring as assistant and lead recruiter for a team that then went on to do what is almost considered unthinkable in Mens hoops - and won back to back championships

2. Experience coaching at the NBA level so he can talk about the NBA to recruits as he shines the light off his NCAA championship ring in their eyes.

3. A coach who can tell the recruits what it is like to run out the tunnel at UD arena and feel the roar of the crowd in your chest.

4. An Coach that does not look at UD as a stepping stone - but rather a destination.

5. A Former head coach in a Power 5 conference.

6. A Coach that has a proven track record of being a good decent human being - someone that cares about his players and coaches and people in general. Someone that does the right thing. Think opposite of Huggie bear.

7. Someone that is an alumni and loves his University.


If this is not something you can get excited about - good lord - throw your computer away - and buy a new one next year when conference season starts.

I am just shocked that VCU's board is more excited and happy for us then some "UD fans" are. This is a GREAT HIRE. All around no matter how you look at it - this is the Hire that takes us to the next level of Gonzaga and Wichita state where our coach sticks around and we are no longer anyone's stepping stone.

Really folks if you don't like this hire - burn your UD gear and buy some X clothing.

He certainly wasn't my first choice but I'm behind him 100 percent now and am starting to get excited. Just looking at the VCU board makes me think we might start getting the type of high level recruits we've never seen the likes of. I didn't realize that most of the VCU squad that went to the final four were his recruits.

He has yet to be the main man when all his recruits and also his teams as an assistant reached their pinnicles, but I'm starting to think those were saved for when he became the head coach of his Alma Mater.

FLYER5 03-31-2017 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin (Post 501248)
But that is the point of kenpom, it normalizes for competition, being in the SEC East for example. Normalizes for out-of-conference games. Felton's 5th and 6th years he ranked 91 and 198 which is terrible. Grant has never had a year below 86 and Felton had 4 of his 6 years below 86.

Basically all college coaches and ADs use kenpom as the college bible now of how good teams really are. It is hard to dismiss as one data point.

Grant had 2 #1 seeds in the NIT (remember Archie had 2 #11s seeds), an extra win each year and he is probably has 2 more NCAA appearances at Alabama (and an extra loss each year and Archie probably has 2 less NCAA appearances).

And Grant recruited the entire roster except for some bit players that Shaka took to the Final 4 so I don't know how you can dismiss his development of Maynor.

I do not know how Grant will turn out as a coach at UD. But he is materially better than Dennis Felton. He is not a disaster hire. And in fact the advanced analytics point to a coach just about as successful as Archie Miller, but AG has been a little unlucky and AM has been a little lucky.

Dude!?! Thanks for giving me some comic gold to bump for my pleasure down the road. In essence your mesage says Archie was proven lucky by advanced analytics..Insufferable apologist much?

FLYER5 03-31-2017 05:54 AM

I appreciate the presentation of statistics brought to light by a less than overzealous source, like Figgie123. Sorry but bending the truth to fit your argument discredits your statement.

I do appreciate your leg work, Rue. You bring some good information to the board on a regular basis. I'm not going after you but the statements I see here that all the sudden point to flaws in the previous coach. And it ticks me off. If we'd have hired a proven winner the sleight on Archie would be less offensive. I'll always follow Archie for what he did here. I understand the bias from some but I don't have ill will. No one has a good reason to show ill will for AM imho.

If you're going to say Archie was lucky in those close games then I can counter that with the coaching went south in crunch-time at Alabama. Because bad coaches lose in crunch-time.

CT Flyer 03-31-2017 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frisco flyer (Post 501235)
Another interesting point I took away from watching the show was that a year of coaching in the NBA is equivalent to about five years in college. It's simple math but I had never thought about it this way.

They actually said two years coaching in the NBA is equivalent to five years of college coaching. 164 games over two years is similar to 30+ games per year for five years in college.

CT Flyer 03-31-2017 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin (Post 501237)
I retract the Oklahoma point, but quadruple down on FL. Fair point about Oklahoma and had 25-30% chance to win with 5 minutes to go. Versus FL, Dayton had a 2-3% chance to win at halftime and never exceeded a 5% chance the 2nd half. In fact, the last 10 minutes of the game, Dayton bumped around among 1-2-3% chance to win.

Added the win probability charts below.

Well I consider being down eight with about 2 minutes left still being in striking distance and not getting killed. But we can agree to disagree. Maybe we should just let computers determine winners of games instead of playing them on the floor. There would be a lot less injuries for players to have to deal with. :rolleyes:

Radar 03-31-2017 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 501180)
I listened to the entire interview while mowing the palatial lawn and it was worth it. Grant came across as excited, prepared and genuine. He must have used the word 'blessed' a dozen times. His words weren't coach speak, but actually came across as knowledgeable and honest. I can't imagine any recruit not being impressed with this man. I loved the hire when it was announced. I royally loved it after hearing the interview.

Go Flyers!

King Rollo the Blessed....OUT!

Dang, I'm impressed you mow your own lawn!

Radar 03-31-2017 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by podcast411 (Post 501252)
Good lord - what the frack do you want - them to hire someone who retroactively brings us a national championship last year. You clearly have completely lost touch with reality. If you can't see the value long term and short term - your head is firmly stuck somewhere.

Lets put up the pro's.

1. NCAA championship ring as assistant and lead recruiter for a team that then went on to do what is almost considered unthinkable in Mens hoops - and won back to back championships

2. Experience coaching at the NBA level so he can talk about the NBA to recruits as he shines the light off his NCAA championship ring in their eyes.

3. A coach who can tell the recruits what it is like to run out the tunnel at UD arena and feel the roar of the crowd in your chest.

4. A Coach that does not look at UD as a stepping stone - but rather a destination.

5. A Former head coach in a Power 5 conference.

6. A Coach that has a proven track record of being a good decent human being - someone that cares about his players and coaches and people in general. Someone that does the right thing. Think opposite of Huggie bear.

7. Someone that is an alumni and loves his University.


If this is not something you can get excited about - good lord - throw your computer away - and buy a new one next year when conference season starts.

I am just shocked that VCU's board is more excited and happy for us then some "UD fans" are. This is a GREAT HIRE. All around no matter how you look at it - this is the Hire that takes us to the next level of Gonzaga and Wichita state where our coach sticks around and we are no longer anyone's stepping stone.

Really folks if you don't like this hire - burn your UD gear and buy some X clothing.

2nd best post of the year.

FLYER5 03-31-2017 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar (Post 501262)
Dang, I'm impressed you mow your own lawn!

Programmable yard-bot does the landscaping on the royal grounds. He was sipping cocktails from the poolside bar while 'mowing' ;)

rollo 03-31-2017 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar (Post 501262)
Dang, I'm impressed you mow your own lawn!

I don't trust anyone else to do it perfectly....but I'm thinking about hiring her.

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com...f283e0dd08.gif

MD Flyer Pride 03-31-2017 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)
I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.

OK, I couldn't stay silent after I read this one. :) Sorry, I am just trying to follow the logic.

Groce... really? And you would be OK with him, because....? You do know he was 34-30 in the MAC conference, right? Yes, the MAC conference!

He was 37-53 in the Big 10 at Illinois. Only one NCAA appearance (his 1st year with someone else's players). Never back to the NCAA tourney in the following 4 seasons. He was fired after that.

Sendek tree? What about the Donoher/Donovan tree?

I didn't have time to research the other names. :whiteflag:

Oh well, I really do hope you come around. I know results are all that matter. Because he is an alum and our coach, I will support AG even more than the previous outsiders. I hope and believe he will do a great job on so many fronts. Time will tell, of course.

Go Flyers!

m21eagle45 03-31-2017 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 501265)
I don't trust anyone else to do it perfectly....but I'm thinking about hiring her.

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com...f283e0dd08.gif

Good luck, she is making 20 mil a year doing Big Bang Theory. You might have to double your royal taxes!

Radar 03-31-2017 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 501265)
I don't trust anyone else to do it perfectly....but I'm thinking about hiring her.

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com...f283e0dd08.gif

I thought Ivanka took a Govt job?

UDBrian 03-31-2017 07:55 AM

I agree with Beckystxa that additional complaining and dissecting of Anthony serves no purpose.

I loved the comment about a year of coaching in the nba was equivalent to five years of college coaching, I also had never thought of it that way.

anthony has spent two years coaching one of the best players in the game and he has also been coaching against some of the best coaches in the game. He has learned a lot from this experience and it can be applied to his coaching at UD. I'm sure he is a better coach now than he was at vcu or ALabama. I'm sure he has also learned a lot about player development in those two years.

so none of us know what he is capable of right now, the ceiling might be higher than any of us know. Let's hope that is the case

Flyer68 03-31-2017 08:26 AM

Was away for a few days and glad to see that AG hired. I definitely did not want to go the "hot assistant" (BG, AM) route again and watch another "hot assistant" dump us.

Not ways found of hiring the past star (Chris Mullins at St. Johns) but I am satisfied with AG and think that the alma mater factor will work well here. We don't eat our young. I wanted someone with head coaching experience even if it was on a lower level (Purnell) and I am happy. Hope he can keep the incoming recruits.

Medford 03-31-2017 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.

If you would have been OK w/ Groce, why in the good Lord's name are you not OK with Grant? Grant has accomplished significantly more than Groce. If you read the OSU boards, may were hoping that Matta dumps Paulus this offseason, I'm not sure why you would be OK with him either.

I'll give you Whitford, he could be a good one down the road, but probably a harder sell to the big donors at this point in time, and if you don't think that matters, I can't help you.

UDDoug 03-31-2017 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)
I apologize for all the complaining, but I am really upset by this hire.

Archie was not mentioned for any jobs either before he took over.

From what I have seen of him at Alabama, I think this was a poor hiring decision, I feel like he was only hired because he is an alumnus, his resume is not that strong IMO.

I feel like we have taken a definite step backwards.

We worked so hard to get to this point, and I feel like it has all been pi**ed away.

At least some of the other candidates that had no hc experience had an unknown ceiling.

I would have given the job to one of Archie's assistants. I also feel that a case could be made for John Brannen.

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.

Archie was mentioned for lower level jobs at both OSU and UA. It was also well known he wasn't taking SoCon or OVC jobs.

I don't understand how anyone can prefer Groce. He never had the success in the MAC that AG had in the CAA and his time at Illinois was much worse. I know you haven't but those talking Felton look at coaching record, which is also inconsistent and spotty, and ignore the cloud of ethics that have followed Felton IIRC.

As perplexing is the disregard for the success people like Alford, McDermott et al have had after getting canned at a P5 job.

And of course many mention Brannen, who I think will be a successful coach. But they are projecting off of one year. What would they have projected for JOB.

An internal hire was an option. But Ostrom has been an assistant for about 20 years. Maybe he is just happy with that. I don't think Griffin is ready but Kuwik might be.

Six years ago people would have killed for AG. I don't think his time at Bama sheds a lot of light just like Iowa and Iowa State did not for Alford and McDermott.
Posted via Mobile Device

GoFlyer 03-31-2017 08:56 AM

Frightening
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 501180)
I listened to the entire interview while mowing the palatial lawn and it was worth it. Grant came across as excited, prepared and genuine. He must have used the word 'blessed' a dozen times. His words weren't coach speak, but actually came across as knowledgeable and honest. I can't imagine any recruit not being impressed with this man. I loved the hire when it was announced. I royally loved it after hearing the interview.

Go Flyers!

King Rollo the Blessed....OUT!

This is scary . . . I agree completely with Rollo's comments. . . . .

Figgie123 03-31-2017 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)
I apologize for all the complaining, but I am really upset by this hire.

Archie was not mentioned for any jobs either before he took over.

From what I have seen of him at Alabama, I think this was a poor hiring decision, I feel like he was only hired because he is an alumnus, his resume is not that strong IMO.

I feel like we have taken a definite step backwards.

We worked so hard to get to this point, and I feel like it has all been pi**ed away.

At least some of the other candidates that had no hc experience had an unknown ceiling.

I would have given the job to one of Archie's assistants. I also feel that a case could be made for John Brannen.

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.

Noone else has said this, but I wanted to thank you for writing down what your thoughts are for your reasons against this hire. It's okay to go against what everyone else says, and this shows us why your opinion is as it is. Others will dissect it and argue with you, but I thank you for putting it down on (virtual) paper.

Figgie123 03-31-2017 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 501245)
Ken Pom is one data point

A good comparison for Anthony is Dennis Felton who was just hired at Cleveland St. Felton is 53 and Grant is 50 and they both had a similar career trajectory.

Anthony got his start at VCU and had three good seasons there. Felton took over a similar program at Western Kentucky and rebuilt it vs inheriting an NBA player in Eric Maynor and a good situation like Grant. Felton took Western the NCAA's three years in a row and accepted the Georgia after the 02-03 season.

Both Anthony Grant and Felton spent six seasons in the SEC and each had a NCAA tourney appearance. Felton had 2 NIT trips and Grant 2 & was let go before his 3rd.

Felton took over Georgia got wiped out by Jim Harrick so his computers are gonna be low at the beginning of his career there. Felton was also in the far more competitive SEC East

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 501247)
It's just agree to disagree situation. I hope I'm completely wrong about Anthony and I eat crow

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 501249)
I guess I go by the old Bill Parcels quote "you are what your record says you are"

Also for you, too, OSU Flyer, thanks for putting down the reasons for your negative opinion of the hire.

big jordan 03-31-2017 09:26 AM

I don't have an issue with opposing arguments, but finding another coach with a similar track record and claiming that this is the reason why Anthony Grant could fail is silly. He could fail because he isn't a great in-game coach or doesn't have great strategies for player development. I don't know if either are true, but those would be actual reasons. But not because Felton had a similar career.

It's just a classic false equivalence. It'd been like someone saying "Bill Belichick wasn't great with the Browns, but he was awesome at New England. Anthony Grant wasn't great at Alabama, but he will be awesome at Dayton. We're getting him at the perfect time"

Regardless, there were going to be people that were going to complain about anyone we hired. Fact is, there was a no chance that we were going to hire someone who is a better coach than Archie is right now, and there's a chance that recruits would leave even if we promoted an assistant. Grant feels like a relatively safe move, which makes sense for the program right now.

Medford 03-31-2017 09:26 AM

good point Figgie.

CT Flyer 03-31-2017 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UDBrian (Post 501274)
I loved the comment about a year of coaching in the nba was equivalent to five years of college coaching, I also had never thought of it that way.

Can we get this right, they said TWO years of coaching in the NBA is like five college seasons.

I'll show you the math:
1 NBA season = 82 games
82 x 2 = 164 games for two NBA seasons

1 college season = 30(+) games
30(+) x 5 = 150(+) games for five college seasons

2 NBA seasons of 164 games approximately = 5 college seasons of 150(+) games.

rollo 03-31-2017 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 (Post 501269)
Good luck, she is making 20 mil a year doing Big Bang Theory. You might have to double your royal taxes!

$20M won't keep you warm at night or make your heart skip a couple beats. I will.
Especially after she trims the....ohhhh, let's not go there.:eek:

tlangs98 03-31-2017 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthedog (Post 501187)
Any link to the interview?
Posted via Mobile Device

http://espn1530.iheart.com/onair/lan...yers-15697206/

ruechalgrin 03-31-2017 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYER5 (Post 501254)
Dude!?! Thanks for giving me some comic gold to bump for my pleasure down the road. In essence your mesage says Archie was proven lucky by advanced analytics..Insufferable apologist much?

Responding to the posts that Anthony Grant is a disaster coach which he is not, he is closer to Archie Miller than Brian Gregory.

I think Archie is clearly an overall better coach, but not as big of a gap as I would have thought before looking at the statistics.

Two glaring weaknesses from Anthony Grant. (1) Success in A games (top 50 games adjusted for location) has been much weaker than Archie. Part attributable to playing more top 20 teams versus Archie played more 30-50 teams. Part Archie is a better coach. (2) Anthony Grant has a terrible "luck" factor in kenpom and Archie was neutral; but AG was unlucky in NCAA games and Archie was lucky. Again, part attributable to true luck (Archie winning 3 NCAA games decided by 4 points and AG losing 3 games in OT or by 1 point) and part probably attributable to AG being a poor end of game coach, too much of a 9 year pattern to say all unlucky.

Again arguments refuting that AG was a terrible hire.

I have no idea how AG will turn out at Dayton, but statistics would indicate closer to AM than BG. But also would indicate not as good of a coach as AM.

steve 03-31-2017 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 501323)
$20M won't keep you warm at night or make your heart skip a couple beats. I will.
Especially after she trims the....ohhhh, let's not go there.:eek:

And the real "Big Bang" Theory won't be considered a theory anymore, huh?

ruechalgrin 03-31-2017 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 501260)
Well I consider being down eight with about 2 minutes left still being in striking distance and not getting killed. But we can agree to disagree. Maybe we should just let computers determine winners of games instead of playing them on the floor. There would be a lot less injuries for players to have to deal with. :rolleyes:

Having less than a 1% chance to win with 2 minutes to go (after being less than a 5% chance to win the entire second half) is the definition of getting killed.

They play the games as 1/100 times Dayton comes back and wins and the Flyer Faithful would have gone crazy and possibly burnt Memphis to the ground.

But as you say, we can agree to disagree.

I agree with your good observation about 2 years in the NBA being 5 years worth of experience in college.

rollo 03-31-2017 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve (Post 501337)
And the real "Big Bang" Theory won't be considered a theory anymore, huh?

Check Netflix for the 'Royal Bang Theory' in the Fall...

or should I say Netflixxx? :eek:

ud2 03-31-2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer (Post 501154)
Next year we're probably not going to the tournament even if Archie Miller sticks around. It's a rebuilding year after 4 straight NCAA tourney appearances. But it's 100% reasonable to expect NCAA appearances within the next 4 years. In fact, the expectation should be to be back in two seasons.

I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

I have already seen a couple of posts writing off next year.

If we had Archie or one of his assistants as hc, then I would feel confident that we would make the 2017-2018 NCAAT.

With Grant, I am much less confident.

And I agree that making 2018-2019 NCAAT, in AG's 2nd year, is a very reasonable expectation.

DallasFlyer 03-31-2017 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501360)
I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

I have already seen a couple posts writing off next year.

If we had Archie or one of his assistants as hc, then I would feel confident that we would make the 2017-2018 NCAA.

With Grant, I am much less confident.

And I agree that making 2018-2019 NCAAT is a very reasonable expectation.

I'm not 100% writing off 2017-18, but trying to be reasonable in assessing our chances. I think that in order to make an NCAA tourney next year, it will require some huge contributions from guys not presently on the roster. Those could come from the incoming class who were Archie recruits, other AG recruits, or grad transfer(s).

If Anthony Grant can come in cold, and add enough firepower to make NCAA tourney next year, that would be as impressive as anything Archie Miller did at Dayton in my opinion.

FlyingArrow 03-31-2017 01:39 PM

AG in the NCAAT in year one would be impressive, but it's a bit of an exaggeration to say it's better than anything Archie did. Archie got to an Elite 8 and 4 NCAA tournaments in a row. Getting to one tournament isn't going to be better than that, even if it does require exceeding expectations.

longtimefan 03-31-2017 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501251)
I apologize for all the complaining, but I am really upset by this hire.

Archie was not mentioned for any jobs either before he took over.

From what I have seen of him at Alabama, I think this was a poor hiring decision, I feel like he was only hired because he is an alumnus, his resume is not that strong IMO.

I feel like we have taken a definite step backwards.

We worked so hard to get to this point, and I feel like it has all been pi**ed away.

At least some of the other candidates that had no hc experience had an unknown ceiling.

I would have given the job to one of Archie's assistants. I also feel that a case could be made for John Brannen.

I would have also been ok with Whitford, Paulus, or Groce, since they are part of the Sendek tree.


Hopefully his time at VCU is more indicative of what we will get.

....and again.

Medford 03-31-2017 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501360)
I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

I have already seen a couple of posts writing off next year.

If we had Archie or one of his assistants as hc, then I would feel confident that we would make the 2017-2018 NCAAT.

With Grant, I am much less confident.

And I agree that making 2018-2019 NCAAT, in AG's 2nd year, is a very reasonable expectation.

I don't care if its Archie coaching, John Wooden or Anthony Grant, its only reasonable to assume there are going to be "growing" pains next season. At the moment, at its best, UD has an inconsistent Darryl Davis and a wildly erratic PG, and a bunch of unproven freshman who have never seen a single minute in a UD uniform. On the wing, UD has nothing but unproven talent, and in the post, we hope to a full return of form Robinson to complement a hopefully stronger Williams and more unproven or unreliable depth.

Can they make the tournament? Sure, there is a lot of potential talent there, but the key is that most of it is potential, not realized. And for the record, making the tournament would not be as impressive as making the 2nd round the year archie was down to 6 scholarship players. It will likely be a long time before I see someone at UD top that accomplishment as a coach.

TXFlyerFan 03-31-2017 01:50 PM

I wouldn't write off next year, especially if we keep most of our recruits. yes, freshmen, I get it. But these guys appear to be more ready to contribute than some freshmen we've had in the past. The questions are:

1. New system...how much buy in will the existing guys put into it
2. Assistants...are they X/O guys who can really help
3. How much time will everyone take to get up to speed
4. How many of the recruits/current players stay with the team. What quality of available transfers who are immediately eligible would come to UD
5. Even if 2017 is a down year, what about 2018? That's more tricky, because you are starting from ground zero on recruits, guys that the previous coaches have been recruiting for years, and now we have a coach that hasn't been in college recruiting for several years

momszer 03-31-2017 01:51 PM

Cunningham maybe? But Admiral Robinson would have been nice

DallasFlyer 03-31-2017 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow (Post 501366)
AG in the NCAAT in year one would be impressive, but it's a bit of an exaggeration to say it's better than anything Archie did. Archie got to an Elite 8 and 4 NCAA tournaments in a row. Getting to one tournament isn't going to be better than that, even if it does require exceeding expectations.

I did not say getting to one tournament would be more impressive than those things. I said Anthony Grant getting Dayton into the tournament next year would be as impressive.

Getting to the tournament itself does not equal a deep run or getting there four times consecutively, but go look at the roster Archie inherited in 2011-12 and compare it to what Dayton has now. We went to the NIT that year. As it turned out adding Alex Gavrilovic (Archie's first and only recruit in that class) wasn't quite enough to put us into the NCAA.

Anthony Grant has his work cut out for him in terms of recruiting and re-recruiting plus implementing a new system. Making the NCAA tourney his first year would be ridiculously impressive.

So I stand by that statement.

longtimefan 03-31-2017 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501360)
I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

I have already seen a couple of posts writing off next year.

If we had Archie or one of his assistants as hc, then I would feel confident that we would make the 2017-2018 NCAAT.

With Grant, I am much less confident.

And I agree that making 2018-2019 NCAAT, in AG's 2nd year, is a very reasonable expectation.

People were saying we wouldn't make the NCAA next season long before Grant was hired. It was because we lost four seniors and they weren't too high on some of the underclassmen. It has nothing to do with Grant.

MikeF 03-31-2017 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501360)
I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

In fairness, though, there's an entire thread speculating on the 2017-2018 where many people were saying it was going to be at best tough to make the tournament even with Miller and his entire recruiting class being here. Speculating Dayton's unlikely to make the NCAA tournament next season didn't start yesterday; it basically started the day after we lost to Wichita State.

cj 03-31-2017 02:31 PM

Coach Grant will be on the @GottliebShow today at 3:40 p.m. ET. Check your local listings & tune in! pic.twitter.com/Hph6Mmvpaw

From ESPN

ruechalgrin 03-31-2017 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYER5 (Post 501255)
I appreciate the presentation of statistics brought to light by a less than overzealous source, like Figgie123. Sorry but bending the truth to fit your argument discredits your statement.

I do appreciate your leg work, Rue. You bring some good information to the board on a regular basis. I'm not going after you but the statements I see here that all the sudden point to flaws in the previous coach. And it ticks me off. If we'd have hired a proven winner the sleight on Archie would be less offensive. I'll always follow Archie for what he did here. I understand the bias from some but I don't have ill will. No one has a good reason to show ill will for AM imho.

If you're going to say Archie was lucky in those close games then I can counter that with the coaching went south in crunch-time at Alabama. Because bad coaches lose in crunch-time.

And if you look at my posts throughout the thread I would agree with that. Archie has had more success than Anthony due to a combination of luck and better coaching. I have consistently argued AM is a better coach than AG, but to-date it is not as big of a difference as at first blush. I would consider VCU, Bama, and Dayton all in the 40-60 best program range so I think coaches performance at those schools a fair compare. The gap will be huge with Archie at Indiana.

In basketball and in life, people underestimate the luck factor using trite phrases like you make your luck. I do think Archie has been a tad lucky in NCAA games and Grant a tad unlucky, also a very small sample size. But Archie is a better coach than Grant.

steve 03-31-2017 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 501360)
I disagree...there is no reason that 2017-2018 has to be a non-NCAAT year...I feel like people are already making excuses for AG to miss the NCAAT next year.

I have already seen a couple of posts writing off next year.

If we had Archie or one of his assistants as hc, then I would feel confident that we would make the 2017-2018 NCAAT.

With Grant, I am much less confident.

And I agree that making 2018-2019 NCAAT, in AG's 2nd year, is a very reasonable expectation.

As we sit here today discussing this, next year will be a non NCAA team and that is very reasonable to assume.. Naturally, we will address this once again when we know if all the recruits are staying and how realistically and to the degree the sophomore class improves and how healthy this team can stay

longtimefan 03-31-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin (Post 501386)
In basketball and in life, people underestimate the luck factor using trite phrases like you make your luck. I do think Archie has been a tad lucky in NCAA games and Grant a tad unlucky, also a very small sample size. But Archie is a better coach than Grant.

Agree. Archie was great, but Ohio State had a last second shot to beat us and Syracuse had a last second shot to beat us. If Craft's shot goes in, we're probably not talking about any of this. I said at the time we were lucky, but that it just made up for all the bad luck we had in previous NCAA Tournaments.

FLYER5 03-31-2017 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longtimefan (Post 501374)
People were saying we wouldn't make the NCAA next season long before Grant was hired. It was because we lost four seniors and they weren't too high on some of the underclassmen. It has nothing to do with Grant.

Very similar comments on this board were made after Archie suspended our front court players before the team was morphed to play small-ball, and before the elite-8 run. Statistics don't show intangibles most often. In all honesty I think Archie, from past performance, has intangibles in spades over AG, based on past performance. I want a coach that doesn't wilt in crunch-time. Not saying it happened to AG, but losing close games more often than not is not bad luck. It's often because the players couldn't keep the pace or they didn't make the right adjustments. Sounds pretty unconvincing until you factor in the team included a top five recruiting class. What would Archie....oh, nevermind.

N2663R 03-31-2017 07:33 PM

"Anthony Grant and Neil Slullivan agree that Dayton is a destination job." Two down, the rest of the college basketball world to go . . . . .

pmcmullen 03-31-2017 07:57 PM

I thought we had great fans until reading this. Seriously.

Grant has been coach for what, 30-some hours and some of you are already calling for his head? Welcome our guy back home and wish him well.

In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief!

UDSpud 03-31-2017 08:00 PM

AG - first blush projection
 
Better than BG. Not as good as AM.

CE80 03-31-2017 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 501443)
I thought we had great fans until reading this. Seriously.

Grant has been coach for what, 30-some hours and some of you are already calling for his head? Welcome our guy back home and wish him well.

In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief!

In the words of Charlie Chaplin:
Posted via Mobile Device

frisco flyer 03-31-2017 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 501319)
Can we get this right, they said TWO years of coaching in the NBA is like five college seasons.

I'll show you the math:
1 NBA season = 82 games
82 x 2 = 164 games for two NBA seasons

1 college season = 30(+) games
30(+) x 5 = 150(+) games for five college seasons

2 NBA seasons of 164 games approximately = 5 college seasons of 150(+) games.

For a good team like OKC, the NBA playoffs are a season all to themselves.

John C. 03-31-2017 09:44 PM

There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?

TXFlyerFan 03-31-2017 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C. (Post 501458)
There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?

1. I didn't have a guy. Just wanted the best guy we could get. Maybe that's Grant, maybe it isn't. But I keep hearing Dayton is a "destination" job, so maybe expectations are not in line with reality?
2. Concerns about Grant really boil down to having great recruiting classes but not performing to expectations. It's not unreasonable to discuss this.
3. Why would we pick at Indiana? We aren't Indiana fans.

DallasFlyer 03-31-2017 11:36 PM

Hope Anthony makes it back to Dayton in time for the press conference!

Thunder Beat Reporter just tweeted:

Thunder assistant Anthony Grant wasn't on the bench tonight, but watched the game in a back room. Getting intro'd at Dayton Saturday.

WarriorPride 04-01-2017 12:38 AM

My 2 cents: Seems like Neil, et al. went with stability over the prospect of hitting on the next big time P5 coach (Dayton is a destination job mantra). My question is whether Neil thinks the constant Arch rumors undermined recruiting and scheduling over the past 3 years? Would love for Jablo to ask him. IMO if I'm a 3/4-star type that was recruited by Arch, I'd always have in the back of my mind whether he was going to stick. Frankly, that would have been a major deterrent to go to UD. In the same vein, if I'm a UC or a mid-level P5, am I reluctant to sign to play UD b/c who knows what happens if/when Arch leaves?
As far as the search, I didn't see any name being discussed that overwhelmed me. Most were lottery tickets, at best. Was hoping that Kuwik would get the nod to start an X/Butler/VCU type continuity. Obviously, that presented a risk with the lack of HC experience. Instead, seems like UD will be heading down the path of St. Joe’s or Davidson, while utilizing the advantages of UD (fan base, arena, coach w/ NBA ties) to be at the top of the league more consistently. Looking forward to next season!

Flyer'95 04-01-2017 01:05 AM

What is killing me is the question of Ostrum. I wish someone in the media would get an answer from him or Grant on whether there's a chance he stays. They are old friends. Is that enough? Does he want to be Associate Head Coach at UD? Will he have that position offered to him at IU? Or does Ostrum want to try to be a head coach somewhere? Inquiring minds want to know. Keeping him would take this from a great hire to an amazing hire.

Regarding the search, I read that they were only interested in people who saw UD as a destination job. And i'm sorry, but there are very few people outside of those who have gone to dayton or played for dayton who would ever view that as the last stop. Any decent younger coach will want to come here, make a mark and then test the waters in a bigger pond. That's just the way college hoops is now.

It's great that AG has the resume and is a the point in his life where he may be happy to make this his last stop on the coaching train if he's successful.

But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.

Chris R 04-01-2017 01:18 AM

Archie is a Vee Sanford floater and Jordan Sibert SAM missile from still being the Dayton coach right now and fans wondering if he has the exact same NCAA yips as Gregory and Purnell. The margins in this game are razor thin. I dont think even our own recent success calls for drinking anyone's bath water. The way fans talk, we just lost Mike Krzyzewski to Army and replaced him with Bruiser Flint. Archie got us back to where we should have been to begin with. And many thanks for it. But lets pump the brakes a bit and not forget ourselves either.

priceg75 04-01-2017 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 (Post 501485)
But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.

Wasn't that the real challenge of this search though? Finding someone who really wants to be here, not with an eye towards resume-building?

We have gone that route four straight times with mixed results... Let's see what someone who really does want to be here can do. I'm very optimistic.

Six years ago we would've fallen all over ourselves for this hire. I think there are too many questions around what happened at Alabama to mark that as a Grant failure. He was a runaway success at VCU... which is exactly the sort of program we are, only better. Looking forward to it.

THirt 04-01-2017 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer (Post 501476)
Hope Anthony makes it back to Dayton in time for the press conference!

Thunder Beat Reporter just tweeted:

Thunder assistant Anthony Grant wasn't on the bench tonight, but watched the game in a back room. Getting intro'd at Dayton Saturday.

Tom Archdeacon's article today said the family was back in town mostly so his son could attend his prom last night. That's pretty cool.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...cQU3Yp5iciRUM/
Posted via Mobile Device

N2663R 04-01-2017 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 (Post 501485)
What is killing me is the question of Ostrum. I wish someone in the media would get an answer from him or Grant on whether there's a chance he stays. They are old friends. Is that enough? Does he want to be Associate Head Coach at UD? Will he have that position offered to him at IU? Or does Ostrum want to try to be a head coach somewhere? Inquiring minds want to know. Keeping him would take this from a great hire to an amazing hire.

Regarding the search, I read that they were only interested in people who saw UD as a destination job. And i'm sorry, but there are very few people outside of those who have gone to dayton or played for dayton who would ever view that as the last stop. Any decent younger coach will want to come here, make a mark and then test the waters in a bigger pond. That's just the way college hoops is now.

It's great that AG has the resume and is a the point in his life where he may be happy to make this his last stop on the coaching train if he's successful.

But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.

I think Ostrum is the key. If he stays and can convince our current recruits to stay, we have a fighting chance next year and can more easily build the program without much interruption. Who knows, maybe Ostrum is promoted to Associate Head Coach and is told he will no.1 on the list when AG moves on - which could be a long way off, though.

BTW - thanks for validating my destination job comment. My comment was not a slam on AG, but a realistic observation.

BeckysTXA 04-01-2017 10:47 AM

I haven't seen a link that UD is streaming live the AG press conference. That kind of surprises me. I would have thought they would stream it since it's not open to the public. I know they will have a clip afterwords online. Wonder if Chris R is going?

cj 04-01-2017 10:51 AM

The press conference begins at 1:00 p.m. and will be streamed live on WDTN.com

Flyer'95 04-01-2017 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceg75 (Post 501488)
Wasn't that the real challenge of this search though? Finding someone who really wants to be here, not with an eye towards resume-building?

We have gone that route four straight times with mixed results... Let's see what someone who really does want to be here can do. I'm very optimistic.

Six years ago we would've fallen all over ourselves for this hire. I think there are too many questions around what happened at Alabama to mark that as a Grant failure. He was a runaway success at VCU... which is exactly the sort of program we are, only better. Looking forward to it.

I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.

BRob2Perryman3 04-01-2017 11:07 AM

What kind of timeline should we expect with assistants being named and anything official going on with the recruits?

priceg75 04-01-2017 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 (Post 501526)
I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.

That's wrong. Grant himself could end up leaving after a few successful years, nothing is certain. But I do think there is a profile of coach that would view this as a "destination". Likely older and with either a P5 failure or a long low to mid major track record.

You know, like Ray Harper.

jack72 04-01-2017 11:11 AM

If successful, not only do we have to worry about Grant leaving for another college job, but there may be an NBA team after him.

FLYER5 04-01-2017 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C. (Post 501458)
There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?

Bump material. Ignore all you want..

longtimefan67 04-01-2017 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 (Post 501526)
I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.

I don't really care what you call it. A "search" or a "single phone call" (or a single text for that matter). All I care about is that we got a quality coach with fantastic background and ties to the university, not here to impress and build a resume only to bolt. A coach that sees this job as potentially a final destination/legacy. I'll take that kind of coach and commitment any day; especially if his name is Anthony Grant.


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