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-   -   VCU thoughts (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33793)

CoffeeCan 01-14-2020 10:11 PM

VCU thoughts
 
1. That felt good
2. I mean, really good.
3. Took it to them in the 2nd half - I think we hit 11 of 12 at one point
4. And this is the preseason conference champ
5. With 4 seniors. I think Santos-Silva has been there since 2009.
6. Crutcher showing his toughness
7. Kind of alarming that we have two PGs, but only one can bring up the ball
8. Landers again a workhorse
9. I hate VCU
10. Mostly bourbon today, feelin fine gents!

Jack D 01-14-2020 10:25 PM

We kicked their ass tonight

steverino015 01-14-2020 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan (Post 609119)
1. That felt good
2. I mean, really good.
3. Took it to them in the 2nd half - I think we hit 11 of 12 at one point
4. And this is the preseason conference champ
5. With 4 seniors. I think Santos-Silva has been there since 2009.
6. Crutcher showing his toughness
7. Kind of alarming that we have two PGs, but only one can bring up the ball
8. Landers again a workhorse
9. I hate VCU
10. Mostly bourbon today, feelin fine gents!

we had it up to a 22 point lead, and during that run
we were fantastic...

if we could stop the lazy passes, the turnovers,
IMO this could become a top 5 team...
the best part is there is room to smooth out
the team... room to improve...

stay focused for an entire game, and there is
no team in the nation we cannot beat...truth

Canonball 01-14-2020 10:27 PM

The good
- Crutcher is cold blooded when the pressure is on
- Obi has a calming presence
- Few people can handle Obi on the block
- Ibi is a nice pressure relief valve
- When the guys communicate they can turn the half court D up a notch and blow people out
- Mikesell on a bad night still finds ways to contribute

The bad
- 6 man rotation at this point
- Mikesell had a very quiet night shooting
- Jordy is still lost
- Cohill is still lost
- The guys seem to forget that their best offense is to get the ball to Obi on the block and let the man work.
- Often careless with the ball

The Ugly
- 20 TO's
- 0 assists and 6 TO's out of Chatman and he still played the lions share of the minutes
- Flyers are one twisted ankle from not being able to set up the offense and function
- VCU is allowed to play football and their coach is a whiny *******

ChampCar 01-14-2020 11:21 PM

>> VCU is allowed to play football and their coach is a whiny ******* <<

More good news that the Flyers can handle a bunch of thugs.
Posted via Mobile Device

T-Bone 84 01-14-2020 11:23 PM

One other “The Ugly”: the officials let things get out of hand early, then spent much of the night trying to “get the horses back in the barn”. I’d still like to see the replay of the foul by Santos-Silva in the first half, that happened right in front of The Red Scare. From my angle (halfway up Section 215), it looked like a borderline Flagrant 1, with S-S clocking Obi across the face with his forearm. At least, that’s how it looked to me from 75 feet away.
Posted via Mobile Device

jpk4ud 01-14-2020 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonball (Post 609132)
The good
- Crutcher is cold blooded when the pressure is on
- Obi has a calming presence
- Few people can handle Obi on the block
- Ibi is a nice pressure relief valve
- When the guys communicate they can turn the half court D up a notch and blow people out
- Mikesell on a bad night still finds ways to contribute

The bad
- 6 man rotation at this point
- Mikesell had a very quiet night shooting
- Jordy is still lost
- Cohill is still lost
- The guys seem to forget that their best offense is to get the ball to Obi on the block and let the man work.
- Often careless with the ball

The Ugly
- 20 TO's
- 0 assists and 6 TO's out of Chatman and he still played the lions share of the minutes
- Flyers are one twisted ankle from not being able to set up the offense and function
- VCU is allowed to play football and their coach is a whiny *******

Chatman and Mikesell played their rears off on defense. It was amazing how the VCU guards just rode Chatman and Mikesell will be a sore puppy tomorrow.

Sea Bass 01-14-2020 11:27 PM

wasnt pretty but it was fun

T-Bone 84 01-14-2020 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonball (Post 609132)
...VCU is allowed to play football and their coach is a whiny *******

Stripes should have flagged VCU for “Clipping” on the play when Trey got rolled under the hoop in front of our bench. VCU takes the term “reckless abandon” to a whole, new level with the way they throw their bodies around the court.
Posted via Mobile Device

jpk4ud 01-14-2020 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan (Post 609119)
1. That felt good
2. I mean, really good.
3. Took it to them in the 2nd half - I think we hit 11 of 12 at one point
4. And this is the preseason conference champ
5. With 4 seniors. I think Santos-Silva has been there since 2009.
6. Crutcher showing his toughness
7. Kind of alarming that we have two PGs, but only one can bring up the ball
8. Landers again a workhorse
9. I hate VCU
10. Mostly bourbon today, feelin fine gents!

In the second half my friend said he counted 6 different player that brought the ball up court tonight against the press. I know UD turned it over too much tonight, but I really don't think pressing Dayton is going much to slow the avalanche down when it gets running.

TommyGola 01-14-2020 11:36 PM

I was at the game this evening and the Arena was rocking. There were a lot of positives, but unfortunately some negatives:

1. Trey: Poor first half but gangbusters in the second half - hit two big threes at critical times.
2. Obi: Obi was Obi, though he did have five turnovers...mostly poor passes.
3. Crutcher: Huge game...all-conference type of performance. He kept sliding on the floor every time he tried to stop or do a spin move. The third time he did it, he rolled an ankle. I told my buddy that he needed to take off those stupid red shoes. Crutcher came back from the locker room and had changed shoes!
4. Mikesell: Never got into the swing of the game. He had two points; I believe they were the first two points of the game. After that, he missed some layups and several threes. He did have a decent game on the boards.
5. Rodney Chatman: If you Priders recall, I was singing the praises of Crutcher after seeing him early in the season. Tonight, his game was dismal...and that is being kind about it. He did have a nice floater and two critical free throws. But, as has plagued him and this team for the entire season, he had six turnovers. Some of them were just absolutely careless passes.
6. Ibi Watson: Overall, Ibi had a very solid game. However, there was one time at a critical point in the game, when he tried to bring the ball up the court against a press. He has no business trying to do that, as he is not a great ball-handler. He turned the ball over with an errant pass and gave VCU an easy bucket.
7. Jordy: OK game, but he needs to develop his hands.
8. Cohill: I felt sorry for Cohill; he plays hard but his few minutes in the game were plagued by fouls and turnovers. He is playing with zero confidence at this time. Coach Grant yanked him after his second turnover. I know you need a backup at the point, but poor Cohill is not the guy.
9. 20 turnovers! Oh my, this team is a good passing team in the way they work the ball for the extra pass, but in general their errant passing is going to cost them some wins this year if they don't clean this up. Most of their turnovers were just totally lackadaisical passing. They must improve their passing and reduce the turnovers.
10. This was not the Flyers' best defensive game, as they often gave up the dribble penetration and the baseline with no help side protection.

Smitty10 01-14-2020 11:47 PM

The only negatives I take from this game are the lazy passes, the stupid fouls in the final minute and a half and the Flyers did a poor job of setting up screens this game. But I think that 3rd point has more to do with how tough VCU's defense is.

Not a real pretty game but the Flyers did what they had to do and that was play defense well enough to keep VCU from making too many easy shots(that's the only way they are going to beat Dayton).

VCU is not a good offensive team and the Flyers made sure they looked like it.

Columbia Blue 01-14-2020 11:56 PM

I was thoroughly unimpressed with VCU, other than the expected defensive tenacity.

For the good of the conference, I'm mildly concerned about the direction of both VCU & Davidson's programs. DC is 7-9. Wonder if McKillop's seat is warming at all. They have injuries, but Grady & JAG are neutralized. VCU is bad offensively. Rhoades ain't Shaka or Will Wade.

sheg 01-14-2020 11:57 PM

That's an awful lot of negatives for a game against a top 50 opponent that our team won by 14.

TommyGola 01-15-2020 12:01 AM

Most of the negatives are centered on passing turnovers. Coach Grant talked about that as well. There are few games the Flyers will win against good teams with that many turnovers.

Smitty10 01-15-2020 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheg (Post 609151)
That's an awful lot of negatives for a game against a top 50 opponent that our team won by 14.

The Flyers are a power house that can get away with those against most of their opponents. But you do want to see those cleaned up by March.

frisco flyer 01-15-2020 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampCar (Post 609138)
>> VCU is allowed to play football and their coach is a whiny ******* <<

More good news that the Flyers can handle a bunch of thugs.
Posted via Mobile Device

VCU plays a physical brand of basketball but they are not thugs. I wish we could play defense like they do.

SeasonTicketFan 01-15-2020 12:20 AM

Thugs is not the right word. They play very hard defense. The 20 turnovers forced preventing this game from being a monster blowout.

I think they got away with a lot of holding and hand checking though especially in the first half.

Rick Scaia 01-15-2020 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGola (Post 609152)
Most of the negatives are centered on passing turnovers. Coach Grant talked about that as well. There are few games the Flyers will win against good teams with that many turnovers.

In fairness, the Flyers won't be playing too many more games against good teams whose best talent if forcing turnovers. Because that's what VCU is, and the fact that they did to us what they've done to pretty much everybody isn't too shameful.

We're far enough into the season to trust the numbers that say VCU is a not-very-good offensive team (bolstered to mediocrity by some lights-out 3-pt performances). And while they profile as a top-40 defensive squad, almost all of that comes from their elite turnover/steal rates (before tonight's game, 2nd best in the nation, and will likely get better after what they did to us).

They're just OK on possessions where they allow you to get off a shot, and tonight was their 2nd worst performance all season when it comes to eFG% Allowed. Which was US doing to THEM what WE have done all year to everybody.

I think tonight was both teams playing more or less to the back of their baseball card, and the fact that the outcome was a 14 point win for us bodes well going forward. I'm more concerned about how clear it's becoming that an injury to one of six guys will torpedo our season than I am about the turnovers we committed against one of, if not the best, turnover causing team in the country.

[All harebrained "analysis" by your truly based on data readily available at barttorvick.com.]

Glen Clark 01-15-2020 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpk4ud (Post 609140)
Chatman and Mikesell played their rears off on defense. . .


This ^ ^ ^

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink
:beermug:

Tony T 71 01-15-2020 12:47 AM

Wow, we beat a good VCU team by 14 and some of you just can't enjoy it.
Let's point out all the negatives.:confused::confused::confused: Coach Grant will deal with those in practice
In 30 plus games nobody plays well every night. Just win baby:beermug::beermug::beermug:

Smitty10 01-15-2020 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony T 71 (Post 609160)
Wow, we beat a good VCU team by 14 and some of you just can't enjoy it.
Let's point out all the negatives.:confused::confused::confused: Coach Grant will deal with those in practice
In 30 plus games nobody plays well every night. Just win baby:beermug::beermug::beermug:

You see, when we watch 40 minutes of basketball and discuss it on a message board, it's natural to discuss the positives and negatives. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it.

BTW, quote of the day on VCU message board: Call me crazy, but without the 20-0 run I think we win this one

ChampCar 01-15-2020 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frisco flyer (Post 609154)
VCU plays a physical brand of basketball but they are not thugs. I wish we could play defense like they do.

The body slam of Chatman sure looked like a thug play to me.
Posted via Mobile Device

shocka43 01-15-2020 05:47 AM

Officials were garbage. The taller white dude didn't control what he needed to control early on and they had to make up for it. When they made up for it the momentum that UD had went out the door.

Apparently they didn't understand how to deal with a rivalry game.

Fudd 01-15-2020 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampCar (Post 609165)
The body slam of Chatman sure looked like a thug play to me.
Posted via Mobile Device

That qualified as "thug" in my book. Glad that we whooped some ass. It wasn't a complete ass whooping by our 30 point ass whooping golden standard this year, but it was enough ass whooping to deeply satisfy.

T-Bone 84 01-15-2020 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka43 (Post 609171)
Officials were garbage. The taller white dude didn't control what he needed to control early on and they had to make up for it. When they made up for it the momentum that UD had went out the door.

Apparently they didn't understand how to deal with a rivalry game.

The sad part is, 2 of the 3 officiated in last year’s Final Four. James Breeding (the taller white dude) was part of the team that handled the UVA/Auburn semifinal. Jeffrey Anderson (the black dude) has actually worked the last 3 Final Fours. For guys with those kind of credentials, they were certainly unprepared for this particular game. They let too much go on early, and by the time the WWE came to town at the 9:00 mark of the first half, the tone had been set, and they had to spend the rest of the game restoring order.
Posted via Mobile Device

rollo 01-15-2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampCar (Post 609165)
The body slam of Chatman sure looked like a thug play to me.
Posted via Mobile Device

It might have been a thug play, but there’s nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about fighting for a loose ball. I had the exact situation in a Centerville v Lakota game a couple years back...ball being bobbled and loose...huge Lakota kid dives for it at the same time a small Centerville kid dives for it. All 4 hands are in the ball and the Lakota kids pulls the ball across his body for control...Centerville kid doesn’t let go and gets lifted off the floor and thrown to the other side of the Lakota kid. Whistles blew...Centerville fans cheer the foul...except we (refs) all came in signaling ‘jump ball’. Centerville coach goes nuts on me...I tell him point blank that I’m not calling a foul on the Lakota kid ‘for being stronger than yours’.

It might have looked rough, but it was a live ball.

Just a few seconds prior to that incident, the refs had 2 chances to call slapping/contact fouls on VCU and didn’t. Their mistake!

There’s a term we use in reffing called ‘preventative officiating’. It’s a tool used to control play BEFORE things get out of control. This would have been a good time to call a slap on VCU because you could see in the previous minute that it was getting physical on both sides. But instead of being ‘preventative’ before it got ugly, the refs decided to wait until after it got ugly...and called a foul + a double Technical after reviewing the replay and deciding its time to take control...which they did by calling a couple ticky-tac fouls on the next couple of possessions.

King Rollo the Enforcer...OUT!
Posted via Mobile Device

steve 01-15-2020 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Scaia (Post 609156)
In fairness, the Flyers won't be playing too many more games against good teams whose best talent if forcing turnovers. Because that's what VCU is, and the fact that they did to us what they've done to pretty much everybody isn't too shameful.

We're far enough into the season to trust the numbers that say VCU is a not-very-good offensive team (bolstered to mediocrity by some lights-out 3-pt performances). And while they profile as a top-40 defensive squad, almost all of that comes from their elite turnover/steal rates (before tonight's game, 2nd best in the nation, and will likely get better after what they did to us).

They're just OK on possessions where they allow you to get off a shot, and tonight was their 2nd worst performance all season when it comes to eFG% Allowed. Which was US doing to THEM what WE have done all year to everybody.

I think tonight was both teams playing more or less to the back of their baseball card, and the fact that the outcome was a 14 point win for us bodes well going forward. I'm more concerned about how clear it's becoming that an injury to one of six guys will torpedo our season than I am about the turnovers we committed against one of, if not the best, turnover causing team in the country.

[All harebrained "analysis" by your truly based on data readily available at barttorvick.com.]

Agree 100%..UD is not very good protecting the ball as it is as both guards are not very strong nor great ball handlers....Add in that VCU can maul you with their size as almost all their players look like linebackers and that is their MO and this is what can happen.Pretty sure they're in the top 5 every year in steals...

Interestingly, I would almost bet you that close to half of VCU's points were off TO's. UD had 9 TO's at the half and VCU converted those into 16 points...And I know of at at least another 4-5 TO's in the 2nd half that led to buckets...UD played a tremendous overall defensive game as well.

I also worry about the extreme drop-off in talent and production on the bench......You're never as good as you think or as bad so I'll give VCU credit for excellent defensive pressure on their press and filling the passing lanes very nicely overall and I'll say that UD probably won't face that type of defensive pressure/ press style again....

Canonball 01-15-2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve (Post 609180)
I also worry about the extreme drop-off in talent and production on the bench......You're never as good as you think or as bad so I'll give VCU credit for excellent defensive pressure on their press and filling the passing lanes very nicely overall and I'll say that UD probably won't face that type of defensive pressure/ press style again....

This is what's got me worried. Not for league play, but for March. To advance you have to have folks step up. If the Flyers end up in a situation with Crutcher or Obi in foul trouble I'm not sure how they score. Watson would be it but he's best working off the other players.

steve 01-15-2020 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frisco flyer (Post 609154)
VCU plays a physical brand of basketball but they are not thugs. I wish we could play defense like they do.

UD players are not built to play that style of D nor do they have the depth to do that..VCU had 9 players play 10 minutes or more so you have to be equipped. UD also is far better at getting out on the break and running and releasing their guards...

I thought UD played a hell of a defensive game and outside 3-4 of breakdowns they kept themselves between the VCU players and the hoop and switched off nicely. The D during the 20-0 run was epic and UD looked like what a top 10 team can do,when needed, and the VCU players were clueless and looked like they had not picked up a ball in months....

DaytonDecibelDungeon 01-15-2020 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609163)
BTW, quote of the day on VCU message board: Call me crazy, but without the 20-0 run I think we win this one

Memo to VCU:

Call me crazy, but if Dayton didn't have 20 turnovers that led to 31 of VCU's 65pts I think Dayton could have won this one by over 30pts.

Sorry to ruin your glass half-full thought of the day, VCU fans.

shwag33 01-15-2020 08:28 AM

Really don't want to pile on the negativity as it was a great win. I would have taken a 1 point victory.

However, this game highlights the loss of Chase. We basically have a 6 man rotation against good teams. Could hurt us come March. Hopefully, someone steps up.

-Matos can't even get in the game.
-Tshimanga......
-Cohill, I feel like he's been unlucky when he's in the game, but also thought he'd be much better right now

Piqua Flyer '66 01-15-2020 08:44 AM

Great game
Obi usual great performance but IMHO not 100$
Why I say that? On the break away slam dunk in first half he used his left hand for first time on a breakaway......because he did not want to push off his left foot. Smart guy!!

GO FLYERS!

cj 01-15-2020 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 (Post 609186)
Great game
Obi usual great performance but IMHO not 100$
Why I say that? On the break away slam dunk in first half he used his left hand for first time on a breakaway......because he did not want to push off his left foot. Smart guy!!

GO FLYERS!

Obi probably heard from a scout that he isn't good with his left hand, hence the left-handed dunk!:D

MrFlyerFanatic 01-15-2020 08:58 AM

VCU's pressure baits teams into rushing and making bad decisions. That pretty much sums up Chatman's entire offensive game last night. Rushed into traps, jumped, and tried to throw passes that VCU was waiting for him to throw. 5 turnovers.
Contrast that with Crutcher (3 TO) and Mikesell (0 TO) against the press who methodically probed and generally made good passes. I would swap Obi and Ryan against the press. Put Obi at mid-court and let Ryan handle the ball. He did play point in high school. However, I can see the benefit of getting the ball to Ryan at mid-court in the center of the press and being a decision maker.
Mikesell only scored 2, but I'll take 6 rebs, 4 ast, 0 TO, and 2 stl against that team.
Trey's 16 pts and 9 rebs was workman-like. Only 2 TO, and I think one of those might have been the 30ft airball shot clock violation. Similar to what Rollo described in his referee experience, Trey was called for a foul on a loose ball simply because the other guy bounced off of him when both jumped for the ball. Penalized for being a physical beast.

When this team is patient and makes good decisions, they cannot be pressed full court without suffering consequences and being featured on "dunk-cam" replays.

Fudd 01-15-2020 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 (Post 609186)
Great game
Obi usual great performance but IMHO not 100$
Why I say that? On the break away slam dunk in first half he used his left hand for first time on a breakaway......because he did not want to push off his left foot. Smart guy!!

GO FLYERS!

I wondered about that. I was left wondering if I had always just missed that he was a left-hander. I don't think I could windmill dunk with my left hand on my kids 6 foot play basketball hoop.

I don't like losing the depth of Chase Johnson, but I am not stressing about depth because Jordy and a few others were not scorers in this game. VCU poses a different set of match-up issues that I think made Grant strategically limit the playing time certain players due to strengths and weaknesses. You don't just throw anyone into the VCU press, and we are fortunate to have certain guys who are good press breakers.

For instance, this was a case where having Obi in the line-up as much as possible gave us a pressure release against the press because of the way he handles the ball and passes.

Thank heavens that Crutcher recovered quickly from the turned ankle!

CT Flyer 01-15-2020 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonball (Post 609181)
If the Flyers end up in a situation with Crutcher or Obi in foul trouble I'm not sure how they score. Watson would be it but he's best working off the other players.

Not that I want to ever see the scenario you detail, but can't Mikesell and Landers score?

Also I keep seeing a 20-0 run, wasn't it actually a 22-0 run?

As for the refs I was surprised that it got a little out of control because Breeding is usually a ref that officiates angry and usually controls (maybe over controls) the game at times and Anderson is always high on the list of officials that call the most fouls per game (many of them seemingly imagined by him).

ClaytonFlyerFan 01-15-2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwag33 (Post 609185)
-Cohill, I feel like he's been unlucky when he's in the game, but also thought he'd be much better right now

Agree. Last night was the same as several other games this year. Within the first minute he is on the floor Cohill picks up a foul, and seems to always be a very questionable ticky tack type foul on him, especially with all the physical abuse they let go last night. His second foul was same way, minimal contact. Every time the guy tries to build a bit of confidence, the stripes seem to get in his head. Happened multiple games this year. I have not given up on him yet

cj 01-15-2020 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 609193)
Also I keep seeing a 20-0 run, wasn't it actually a 22-0 run?

From the 17:06 mark to the 11:08 mark, Dayton outscored VCU 22-0, turning a tie game into a rout. (DDN)

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 09:34 AM

My generalized thoughts are:
1) I really dislike VCU. It's ironic that we wind up with another thug team to fill the mucky shoes of the "team from the south" that left. A good, much needed rival in the A-10, and I'm so glad we cleaned their clock.

2) I absolutely despised the way we took our foot off the gas after that big 2nd half run. With something like 7 minutes to go. we looked like the same tam that sucked the first 15 minutes of the first half. We were flat out murdering them. Why stop, all for the sake of what was clearly milking the clock.

3) This team is not as deep as we initially thought - especially with Chase gone. I still feel a pucker factor every time Cohill is on the floor. I see excuses for him in this thread, but the fact of the matter is that he's a D1 player on a very good team, and he was a 4-star recruit. I put a lot of the impetus on him - not the refs or any stroke of "bad luck." Matos can hardly find the floor, and Jordy is also still essentially a non-contributor in all but an occasional game.

3b) The guys we have that can play, are stellar! The starters + Ibi are a legitimate problem for anyone they face. I'd like to see one more of the previously mentioned non-contributors step up big time before tourney time. Preferably Jordy, if I had my pick. We could use his massive frame against some of the power teams (see Kansas game).

All in all, that was a big game, a big win, and the arena was rocking. The sky is the limit for this team!

San Diego Flyer 01-15-2020 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampCar (Post 609165)
The body slam of Chatman sure looked like a thug play to me.
Posted via Mobile Device

Played it back in slo mo and it looked to me like the thug got the worst of the slam. Sometimes Chatman is a puzzle on offense and defense, but he is one tough SOB, both mentally and physically.

CE80 01-15-2020 09:38 AM

Our bench is not as good as we had expected it would be but our starters are better than we had expected them to be. I'm okay with that.

Buckleyma 01-15-2020 09:41 AM

Marcus Evans stats were not too bad but he seemed to be having a very bad night. I expect that the next time we play VCU, he will play more in control. Also, it looks to me like he has lost weight from the last time they played us. Has he been sick? Maybe not fully recovered.
Posted via Mobile Device

San Diego Flyer 01-15-2020 09:48 AM

There were many fouls where the refs seemed to take the attitude "oh well, I guess that's just how they play". Well, they may not have been fouls, but they were borderline felonies.

NJFlyr71 01-15-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 609179)
It might have been a thug play, but there’s nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about fighting for a loose ball. I had the exact situation in a Centerville v Lakota game a couple years back...ball being bobbled and loose...huge Lakota kid dives for it at the same time a small Centerville kid dives for it. .......
Posted via Mobile Device

Yada! Yada! Yada!

Yea we know you're a ref .... enough already! :D

Flyers win, everything else ... doesn't matter right now.

Go UD! :yay:

steve 01-15-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609202)
My generalized thoughts are:
1) I really dislike VCU. It's ironic that we wind up with another thug team to fill the mucky shoes of the "team from the south" that left. A good, much needed rival in the A-10, and I'm so glad we cleaned their clock.

2) I absolutely despised the way we took our foot off the gas after that big 2nd half run. With something like 7 minutes to go. we looked like the same tam that sucked the first 15 minutes of the first half. We were flat out murdering them. Why stop, all for the sake of what was clearly milking the clock.

3) This team is not as deep as we initially thought - especially with Chase gone. I still feel a pucker factor every time Cohill is on the floor. I see excuses for him in this thread, but the fact of the matter is that he's a D1 player on a very good team, and he was a 4-star recruit. I put a lot of the impetus on him - not the refs or any stroke of "bad luck." Matos can hardly find the floor, and Jordy is also still essentially a non-contributor in all but an occasional game.

3b) The guys we have that can play, are stellar! The starters + Ibi are a legitimate problem for anyone they face. I'd like to see one more of the previously mentioned non-contributors step up big time before tourney time. Preferably Jordy, if I had my pick. We could use his massive frame against some of the power teams (see Kansas game).

All in all, that was a big game, a big win, and the arena was rocking. The sky is the limit for this team!

You don't always get to pick and choose your spurts. You think UD should have just decided to go on a 35-0 run? That easy? UD played out of their minds in that spurt and there's no way they're THAT good just as there's no way VCU is THAT bad.

As in all other sports, there are ebbs and flows of games and momentum shifts alot. VCU is **** good and there's a reason they were picked to win the A10. These guys know how to win and have a ton of pride..VCU could go on a 15-0 spurt at home against UD and who knows if UD can recover playing on the road..

Gazoo 01-15-2020 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGola (Post 609145)
5. Rodney Chatman: If you Priders recall, I was singing the praises of Crutcher after seeing him early in the season. Tonight, his game was dismal...and that is being kind about it. He did have a nice floater and two critical free throws. But, as has plagued him and this team for the entire season, he had six turnovers. Some of them were just absolutely careless passes.


One pass was so bad that he threw it toward Trey, and Trey just stopped, put his hands at his sides, and stared at Chatman as the guy cut 10 yards in front and stole the pass. Trey had this "WTF are you doing" body language.



Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic (Post 609188)
Contrast that with Crutcher (3 TO) and Mikesell (0 TO) against the press who methodically probed and generally made good passes. I would swap Obi and Ryan against the press. Put Obi at mid-court and let Ryan handle the ball. He did play point in high school. However, I can see the benefit of getting the ball to Ryan at mid-court in the center of the press and being a decision maker.
Mikesell only scored 2, but I'll take 6 rebs, 4 ast, 0 TO, and 2 stl against that team.


I think Obi in the middle coming at you with a head of steam scares teams a lot more than Mikesell finishing on the break. So I agree, put Mikesell in the back to break the press, then Obi in the middle to finish it off.

What I took away from the game is that Cohill, Jordy, et al look great against the bottom feeders, but the true players need to step up against a real team. Our "solid backups" don't seem ready for that action, they are shrinking from the pressure. This team is Obi + Crutcher with great upperclass composure from Trey and Mikesell. There was a short stretch where Obi and Crutcher were both on the bench and we were totally lost on offense.

I still think Crutcher's defense is just as good as Chatman's. He gets beat off the dribble no more often than Chatman. Chatman expends more energy being flashy with gambling on defense, but Crutcher is just smooth and under control, and has committed HALF the fouls Chatman has. Chatman has 23 steals, Crutcher 17.

NJFlyr71 01-15-2020 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609163)
You see, when we watch 40 minutes of basketball and discuss it on a message board, it's natural to discuss the positives and negatives. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it.

BTW, quote of the day on VCU message board: Call me crazy, but without the 20-0 run I think we win this one

Here's another factoid for their message board:

"If they had Obi they win this one".

Well you don't and you didn't!

NJFlyr71 01-15-2020 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwag33 (Post 609185)
Really don't want to pile on the negativity as it was a great win. I would have taken a 1 point victory.

However, this game highlights the loss of Chase. We basically have a 6 man rotation against good teams. Could hurt us come March. Hopefully, someone steps up.

-Matos can't even get in the game.
-Tshimanga......
-Cohill, I feel like he's been unlucky when he's in the game, but also thought he'd be much better right now


I agree. So far at this time in the season it is becoming clear that the bench (not counting Ibi) seems to be average serviceable but no spark. No offensive ability, not sure why it seems to be headed downward rather than improvement.

A concern.

rollo 01-15-2020 10:18 AM

*is the #35 cursed?? Time for a new number!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan (Post 609194)
Agree. Last night was the same as several other games this year. Within the first minute he is on the floor Cohill picks up a foul, and seems to always be a very questionable ticky tack type foul on him, especially with all the physical abuse they let go last night. His second foul was same way, minimal contact. Every time the guy tries to build a bit of confidence, the stripes seem to get in his head. Happened multiple games this year. I have not given up on him yet

And then Cohill FINALLY makes a great shot fake for a 3 from the corner, the defender bites and #35* drives to the hoop for an open dunk...until the ref calls him for stepping out of bounds. The kid can't catch a break...:(

UDGutter2 01-15-2020 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 (Post 609139)
One other “The Ugly”: the officials let things get out of hand early, then spent much of the night trying to “get the horses back in the barn”. I’d still like to see the replay of the foul by Santos-Silva in the first half, that happened right in front of The Red Scare. From my angle (halfway up Section 215), it looked like a borderline Flagrant 1, with S-S clocking Obi across the face with his forearm. At least, that’s how it looked to me from 75 feet away.
Posted via Mobile Device

I thought the same thing watching on TV.

Canonball 01-15-2020 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 609193)
Not that I want to ever see the scenario you detail, but can't Mikesell and Landers score?

Also I keep seeing a 20-0 run, wasn't it actually a 22-0 run?

As for the refs I was surprised that it got a little out of control because Breeding is usually a ref that officiates angry and usually controls (maybe over controls) the game at times and Anderson is always high on the list of officials that call the most fouls per game (many of them seemingly imagined by him).

They can but the rotation is Mikesell/Landers/Watson. Obi/Jordy. Crutcher/Chatman/Cohill/Matos. It's the last group that concerns me. If you can disrupt our guards and force them into bad passes, which the last three seem prone to doing, then the offense grinds to a halt. Crutcher is critical!

San Diego Flyer 01-15-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 (Post 609217)
Here's another factoid for their message board:

"If they had Obi they win this one".

Well you don't and you didn't!

And you aren't going to !

jack72 01-15-2020 10:31 AM

And what the heck was that technical on Jordy. I saw the replay three times and all he did was stand around. It was like the refs said, we know VCU started this and now we need to call a tech on both teams, so the tallest guy on UD gets one, we hope he was out there.

Smitty10 01-15-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CE80 (Post 609206)
Our bench is not as good as we had expected it would be but our starters are better than we had expected them to be. I'm okay with that.

I'd like to see us get a 40 point lead against Fordham(or GW or someone) as early as possible and then let Cohill run the offense for the rest of the game. I think MAYBE some harmless long stretch of playing time might increase his confidence and make him much more productive when called upon.

San Diego Flyer 01-15-2020 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609225)
I'd like to see us get a 40 point lead against Fordham(or GW or someone) as early as possible and then let Cohill run the offense for the rest of the game. I think MAYBE some harmless long stretch of playing time might increase his confidence and make him much more productive when called upon.

I predict the Flyers would win by 5.

rollo 01-15-2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer (Post 609229)
I predict the Flyers would win by 5.

In triple OT
Posted via Mobile Device

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve (Post 609215)
You don't always get to pick and choose your spurts. You think UD should have just decided to go on a 35-0 run? That easy? UD played out of their minds in that spurt and there's no way they're THAT good just as there's no way VCU is THAT bad.

As in all other sports, there are ebbs and flows of games and momentum shifts alot. VCU is **** good and there's a reason they were picked to win the A10. These guys know how to win and have a ton of pride..VCU could go on a 15-0 spurt at home against UD and who knows if UD can recover playing on the road..

Yes, I know how sprees work in sports. I have (and still do) spent more than my share of time on about every kind of sports floor/field you can imagine. But, are you going to try to tell me we didn't intentionally change the game plan to slow the tempo, which resulted in our run ending? Please, go watch a replay of the game then report back.

My point is this - I would have kept my foot on their throats until THEY found a way to shut it down. they didn't. We lightened up.

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 609216)
What I took away from the game is that Cohill, Jordy, et al look great against the bottom feeders...

I think "great" is a gross overstatement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 609219)
And then Cohill FINALLY makes a great shot fake for a 3 from the corner, the defender bites and #35* drives to the hoop for an open dunk...until the ref calls him for stepping out of bounds. The kid can't catch a break...:(

They called it because he did it. It's not the ref's fault for calling what actually happens.

Smitty10 01-15-2020 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609235)
Yes, I know how sprees work in sports. I have (and still do) spent more than my share of time on about every kind of sports floor/field you can imagine. But, are you going to try to tell me we didn't intentionally change the game plan to slow the tempo, which resulted in our run ending? Please, go watch a replay of the game then report back.

My point is this - I would have kept my foot on their throats until THEY found a way to shut it down. they didn't. We lightened up.

The starters needed a breather which dictates the bench play and a change of strategy. I believe the 22-0 stretch stopped at the 11+minute mark and the starters plus IBI had been in their from the start of the 2nd half.

CE80 01-15-2020 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer (Post 609229)
I predict the Flyers would win by 5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 609230)
In triple OT
Posted via Mobile Device

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609235)
Yes, I know how sprees work in sports. I have (and still do) spent more than my share of time on about every kind of sports floor/field you can imagine. But, are you going to try to tell me we didn't intentionally change the game plan to slow the tempo, which resulted in our run ending? Please, go watch a replay of the game then report back.

My point is this - I would have kept my foot on their throats until THEY found a way to shut it down. they didn't. We lightened up.

I'm not sure I disagree with you but the contrary to that is we have a fair amount of turnovers. To some degree I think that is the price to pay for a team that makes many of the plays we do. A couple of turnovers and points off those turnovers gives VCU a chance to get back in the game quicker. run a little more clock and they have no chance of getting back in it.

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609237)
The starters needed a breather which dictates the bench play and a change of strategy. I believe the 22-0 stretch stopped at the 11+minute mark and the starters plus IBI had been in their from the start of the 2nd half.

We were playing 6 guys? That explains the run! ;)

Smitty10 01-15-2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609240)
We were playing 6 guys? That explains the run! ;)

I thought about how I worded that after I posted, but figured you knew what I meant, and I still think you did. But yeah, that was a long stretch of transition basketball that probably took a lot out of SIX guys. And I believe Crutch, Ryan and Obi played the whole 8-9 minutes during that stretch.

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609242)
I thought about how I worded that after I posted, but figured you knew what I meant, and I still think you did. But yeah, that was a long stretch of transition basketball that probably took a lot out of SIX guys. And I believe Crutch, Ryan and Obi played the whole 8-9 minutes during that stretch.

I regularly forget jokes aren't acceptable to UDPriders.

:whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag:

T-Bone 84 01-15-2020 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 (Post 609221)
I thought the same thing watching on TV.

And you had a view from a different angle (perhaps several). One more instance of the stripes “letting them play” a bit too much, and then having to send in the National Guard after the WWE smack down started.
Posted via Mobile Device

hawkoooo 01-15-2020 11:49 AM

Careful with the word "thug," according to the media this is now a bad word. Coach Beilein in hot water for using it in a private meeting with his own players. Who are apparently very sensitive young millionaires.

I thought the scuffle with Chatman was ridiculous. The announcers kept saying he threw a forearm/elbow. No he didn't. He was hand checking the defender as he brought the ball up which virtually every ball handler does on virtually every play. If you want to call it a foul, fine, but there was nothing dirty about it and it didn't justify the VCU defender SUPLEXING him.

I thought the absence of Matos was interesting. I think he will be a big piece of the puzzle next year and potentially a starter. Was a little bummed he didn't get any PT in such a big game. Was he sick? In the dog house?

m21eagle45 01-15-2020 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve (Post 609215)
You don't always get to pick and choose your spurts. You think UD should have just decided to go on a 35-0 run? That easy? UD played out of their minds in that spurt and there's no way they're THAT good just as there's no way VCU is THAT bad.

As in all other sports, there are ebbs and flows of games and momentum shifts alot. VCU is **** good and there's a reason they were picked to win the A10. These guys know how to win and have a ton of pride..VCU could go on a 15-0 spurt at home against UD and who knows if UD can recover playing on the road..

I agree you don't pick your spurts, but we went conservative. The team eased up and you could see all the aggressiveness was gone. You try and build as big as lead as possible until the 4 min TO, then milk the clock. This has been a problem since the BG days when we ease up too early. We started milking the clock with about 9 minutes left. A couple missed wide open 3's when they had already cut it to 10-12 and it's a game again.

Radar 01-15-2020 12:02 PM

Whew! I’m glad I decided to attend a very intense, very physical, questionably officiated game between two teams who are likely the cream of the A10 conference and not the game many of you saw! It’s conference play folks! Enjoy this friggin ride Obi, Ibi and the boys are taking us on!

15-2
4-0
Posted via Mobile Device

OSU Flyer 01-15-2020 12:04 PM

That run in the 2nd half to blow the game open was the basketball equivalent of the invasion of Grenada

sheg 01-15-2020 01:05 PM

A 22-0 run in 6:27 equates to 136-0 over 40 minutes! Why did UD take their foot off the gas??? If they just would play like that all the time they'd win every game by 100+!!!!1!1!!11!

sheg 01-15-2020 01:07 PM

On a serious note, the 13-3 run at the end of the first half was equally valuable. The Flyers took their best shot in the first half and were still able to take a lead into the locker room.

m21eagle45 01-15-2020 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheg (Post 609256)
A 22-0 run in 6:27 equates to 136-0 over 40 minutes! Why did UD take their foot off the gas??? If they just would play like that all the time they'd win every game by 100+!!!!1!1!!11!

That is not what anyone who is saying we took our foot off the gas is saying. Obviously, we are not going to keep making shots at 11/12 clip. But we took the air out of the ball. After beating the press with a chance for an easy bucket Obi pulled the ball to milk the clock with about 8 minutes left. He had a chance for a wide open 3 or drive to the hoop. Instead they played conservative and didn't score that possession. Who knows, maybe we don't score with him being aggressive, but when you beat the press with a chance to score, take it! Ibi had a similar situation later in the game as well.

We also starting beating the press, standing dribbling at the top of the key for 20 seconds and then forced shots in the last 5 seconds of the shot clock. That is not what we were doing when we where building our lead. This leads to Trey's airball 30 footer with 6 seconds left on the shot clock because guys are scrambling to get a shot up.

We did the same against St. Mary's and the 20 point lead got too close for comfort in that one. Again, it was a lot of just standing around and dribbling at the top of the key and forcing a shot at the end of the shot clock.

podcast411 01-15-2020 01:31 PM

When Trey flipped over the VCU player and came down hard on the floor - did anyone else feel sorry for the floor? I turned to my son and said they better get someone out there to make sure the floor is not broken.

Gazoo 01-15-2020 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty10 (Post 609225)
I'd like to see us get a 40 point lead against Fordham(or GW or someone) as early as possible and then let Cohill run the offense for the rest of the game. I think MAYBE some harmless long stretch of playing time might increase his confidence and make him much more productive when called upon.

I've brought this up before: if Obi or Crutcher gets hurt we're screwed. So when we get a big lead, put in Cohill and Matos and Jordy. Run them ragged. Either the other team makes a comeback to make it closer, or . . . are you ready for this . . . guys who were recruited for their basketball ability develop. :eek: It's been known to happen.

Really, what's the worst that can happen? I know you're going to say we could blow a huge lead. But we can sparingly sub in Obi and Crutcher to get things back under control. And if we lose 1 game because of it, so be it. The totality of the season and the next season are more important than 1 game.

And if Crutcher or Obi ever gets injured we *might* benefit from a couple guys who aren't figuring it out for the first time when a real game is on the line.

CoffeeCan 01-15-2020 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 609272)
I've brought this up before: if Obi or Crutcher gets hurt we're screwed.

While I do not disagree, I think you can say this about every other team - even the ones ranked higher than us.

TommyGola 01-15-2020 01:53 PM

Normally, Cohill is a suitable replacement, as he typically protects the ball and makes good decisions on the court. Last night was clearly an aberration in these regards. But his chronic problem continues to be the lack of shooting ability. He had another situation last night when he faked a defender on the baseline and had an open 18 foot jump shot. But he was clearly not confident in pulling the trigger. Instead he chose to kick out to Crutcher. He has 2+ years yet as a Flyer. He ought to be able to work on his jump shot and possibly be a starter his senior year.

Gazoo 01-15-2020 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan (Post 609273)
While I do not disagree, I think you can say this about every other team - even the ones ranked higher than us.


Those other teams--they're not winning by 20 points almost every night against teams like the A10 has. And if they go 4-4 during a stretch of conference play because their key player is injured, they are still fine.

We are winning a lot of games by 20 points, so we have the luxury. Use it. And if we go 4-4 for a stretch a A10 conference play, we're a bubble team. Possibly on the outside looking in, depending on who we lose to and when, and assuming of course that we sprinkle in a loss here or there outside the 4-4 stretch. (Meaning for example a season destined for 16-2 conference record turns into 12-6.)

SLUFLYER 01-15-2020 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 609272)
I've brought this up before: if Obi or Crutcher gets hurt we're screwed. So when we get a big lead, put in Cohill and Matos and Jordy. Run them ragged. Either the other team makes a comeback to make it closer, or . . . are you ready for this . . . guys who were recruited for their basketball ability develop. :eek: It's been known to happen.

Really, what's the worst that can happen? I know you're going to say we could blow a huge lead. But we can sparingly sub in Obi and Crutcher to get things back under control. And if we lose 1 game because of it, so be it. The totality of the season and the next season are more important than 1 game.

And if Crutcher or Obi ever gets injured we *might* benefit from a couple guys who aren't figuring it out for the first time when a real game is on the line.

I can understand this sentiment, but to be honest, NOBODY does this in reality. Certainly not at the 8 minutes mark, as had been inferred earlier. For several reasons, IMO.

At the 8 minute mark, I don't know any coach that truly feels "comfortable" with a 20 point lead. Up 20 at the 4-min mark, yeah, cut loose with that theory/approach.

Against VCU is a different animal. The way they trap you and can create fast, easy offense is enough to raise the bar on feeling comfortable with any lead.

Obi is a NATIONAL player of the year candidate and it's unlikely he's going to play less than 30 minutes in most games unless he's got foul trouble.

It also depends on matchups. VCU wasn't a great option to do this.

It also depends on the coach's feel for the game. HOW dominant are we and why? Half court vs full court? And what dynamics change with such substitutions?

If we're up 30 at the 8 minute mark or 20 at the 4 minutes mark against Fordham or perhaps GW or UMass, I'm ok with it.

CvilleFlyer 01-15-2020 02:14 PM

One thing that no one has brought up is during the 7:10 where the score went from 39-38 VCU to 63-41 Flyers (25-2 run) I wonder how many turnovers the Flyers made during that span? Perhaps maybe 1 or 2 at the most! Of our 20 turnovers 9 were made in the first half (when we were behind or the game was close) and 11 were made in the second half (when we put the brakes on and slowed the game down from the 11:08 mark on down). That is why I think I was the only one that commented thanks to Tommy Gola on his excellent post. It was because I thought he was correct in his assessment that we need to clean up the turnovers because most are unforced errors due to careless passes.

Set a goal of 10 per game for the remainder of the season and try to meet that goal.

steve 01-15-2020 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 (Post 609249)
I agree you don't pick your spurts, but we went conservative. The team eased up and you could see all the aggressiveness was gone. You try and build as big as lead as possible until the 4 min TO, then milk the clock. This has been a problem since the BG days when we ease up too early. We started milking the clock with about 9 minutes left. A couple missed wide open 3's when they had already cut it to 10-12 and it's a game again.

Because UD does have some flaws and give VCU credit here. They were due to get going and were ****ed off. They extended out their D and put the press on and got steals and easy buckets....You act like UD wasn't trying....Some of you act like VCU cut the lead to 6 points...

UD scored several points off their fast break during that 22-0 run and eventually VCU hit a couple buckets and was able to press them which cut that lead down....And if you remember UD took out Obi for a few minutes because he needed a blow. UD is a far different team without him..

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER (Post 609278)
I can understand this sentiment, but to be honest, NOBODY does this in reality. Certainly not at the 8 minutes mark, as had been inferred earlier. For several reasons, IMO.

At the 8 minute mark, I don't know any coach that truly feels "comfortable" with a 20 point lead. Up 20 at the 4-min mark, yeah, cut loose with that theory/approach.

Against VCU is a different animal. The way they trap you and can create fast, easy offense is enough to raise the bar on feeling comfortable with any lead.

Obi is a NATIONAL player of the year candidate and it's unlikely he's going to play less than 30 minutes in most games unless he's got foul trouble.

It also depends on matchups. VCU wasn't a great option to do this.

It also depends on the coach's feel for the game. HOW dominant are we and why? Half court vs full court? And what dynamics change with such substitutions?

If we're up 30 at the 8 minute mark or 20 at the 4 minutes mark against Fordham or perhaps GW or UMass, I'm ok with it.

Definitely agree. In sports and life in general, I guess I'm just not that conservative as a person. I have absolutely no interest in changing that. I've also seen far too many instances of teams trying to "protect the lead" prematurely and drop the game for it. UD is no exception.

You can play what-if's all day long, but especially in a big game against a team that is as good as VCU, I'd be playing to win until the horn sounds at the end. No mercy!

steve 01-15-2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609235)
Yes, I know how sprees work in sports. I have (and still do) spent more than my share of time on about every kind of sports floor/field you can imagine. But, are you going to try to tell me we didn't intentionally change the game plan to slow the tempo, which resulted in our run ending? Please, go watch a replay of the game then report back.

My point is this - I would have kept my foot on their throats until THEY found a way to shut it down. they didn't. We lightened up.

The guys were exhausted for crying out loud and they even took Obi out for a few minutes and a couple others which naturally interrupts the flow. Don't you think UD was eventually going to miss some shots and VCU was eventually going to score? Well, guess what, both things happened. VCU did hit a couple buckets and then they were able to put their press on which did not happen during a 22-0 or 20-0 run obviously and they created TO's which is what they do...

I guarantee you AG knew it was not time to have a cold one and that VCU had another run in them bevause basketball is about runs and streaks..

If UD had capable backups playing good ball and guys not turning the ball over consistently you probably would have not seen VCU get within 16 points again..

You got to understand going into a game that there are going to be several momentum shifts. It's like listening to people say if they didn't have those fumbles or interceptions during a football game they would have blown so and so out. Well, guess what, the football ain't round for a reason and things happen. Coaches always teach about all the adversity that will and does happen in a game and whoever deals with it best wins most of the time..

MrFlyerFanatic 01-15-2020 02:38 PM

foul?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by podcast411 (Post 609268)
When Trey flipped over the VCU player and came down hard on the floor - did anyone else feel sorry for the floor? I turned to my son and said they better get someone out there to make sure the floor is not broken.

I assume you are referring to when he jumped over Santos-Silva.
I need to re-watch that play. From my angle, I thought he cleared him and did not actually commit a foul based on how much of the game was called.
I was ready to put that as a reverse version of Chris Wright over Maurice Acker.

jpk4ud 01-15-2020 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic (Post 609287)
I assume you are referring to when he jumped over Santos-Silva.
I need to re-watch that play. From my angle, I thought he cleared him and did not actually commit a foul based on how much of the game was called.
I was ready to put that as a reverse version of Chris Wright over Maurice Acker.

I'm on that end of the court. He came down on his back. Trey was lucky he came out of that fall ok. It was ugly to say the least.

Smitty10 01-15-2020 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 609272)
I've brought this up before: if Obi or Crutcher gets hurt we're screwed. So when we get a big lead, put in Cohill and Matos and Jordy. Run them ragged. Either the other team makes a comeback to make it closer, or . . . are you ready for this . . . guys who were recruited for their basketball ability develop. :eek: It's been known to happen.

Really, what's the worst that can happen? I know you're going to say we could blow a huge lead. But we can sparingly sub in Obi and Crutcher to get things back under control. And if we lose 1 game because of it, so be it. The totality of the season and the next season are more important than 1 game.

And if Crutcher or Obi ever gets injured we *might* benefit from a couple guys who aren't figuring it out for the first time when a real game is on the line.

Well, yeah, that should happen as well, but I'm thinking that to build Cohill's confidence have him on the floor with 4 other starters for a long stretch. Because if you put him out there with just backups, a good chance that their confidence will take a turn for the worse.

I focus on Cohill more than anyone else because I feel that if any of the 4 starters besides Obi can't play for whatever reason, or Ibi, Cohill is the one who's going to get minutes.

Jordy is going to get minutes with the starters anyway and is already useful depending on the situation. If we lose Obi, our dreams are probably gone anyway.

ClaytonFlyerFan 01-15-2020 03:00 PM

Treys Foul
 
I told my wife, I think it is the first time I have ever seen a foul called on someones family jewels.

Fudd 01-15-2020 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan (Post 609293)
I told my wife, I think it is the first time I have ever seen a foul called on someones family jewels.

Good question for Rollo:

If you go straight up with your nuts outside of the blocking circle, and someone drives into your nuts with their forehead, is it a blocking foul?

Medford 01-15-2020 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbia Blue (Post 609150)
I was thoroughly unimpressed with VCU, other than the expected defensive tenacity.

For the good of the conference, I'm mildly concerned about the direction of both VCU & Davidson's programs. DC is 7-9. Wonder if McKillop's seat is warming at all. They have injuries, but Grady & JAG are neutralized. VCU is bad offensively. Rhoades ain't Shaka or Will Wade.


Bob's seat isn't even tepid. In the past 20 years, they've made the NCAA 8 times and the NIT another 5 times. He's been a staple of Davidson hoops for 30 years now, raked up a ton of wins and appears to be about as classy as you can get, doing it all with less than most programs.


And if that ain't enough for you, his name is emblazoned on their court, on the side that shows up on TV. McKillop won't be forced out anytime soon, nor should he.


Rhoades offers VCU some stability in the wake of a string of coaches leaving for greener pastures. He's recruiting fine, they will be fine.

ortez52 01-15-2020 03:19 PM

vcu thoughts
 
I dont know what I am not seeing everybody else is .This is the first team I have seen in a long time. Each player has a role they know there roles. Will they all be clicking at once know. But this is the first flyer team I have seen that knows were they stand and they play together and on any given night any of them can go off and win a game for you. Relax and enjoy this i think there is more to come .And last night was how the place was when I first became a fan Chatman and the rest will have there moments watch and see.

CT Flyer 01-15-2020 03:31 PM

So let me get this straight, Dayton did not play to win until the final horn?

Was there something said in the huddle like "hey guys you've played well until now but the strategy has changed now. Let's see if we can play terrible the rest of the way and lose the game."

And in the post game "guys we turned the ball over 20 times tonight which was our goal, but from here on out we are going to lower the goal to 10 turnovers per game."

rollo 01-15-2020 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudd (Post 609298)
Good question for Rollo:

If you go straight up with your nuts outside of the blocking circle, and someone drives into your nuts with their forehead, is it a blocking foul?

Within the friendly confines of the Palatial master bedroom, that's not a foul...it's foreplay.

Any other questions?

Medford 01-15-2020 03:35 PM

As far as last night goes, I feel like UD came out timid. Perhaps it was nerves for the first truly big conference game of the year, perhaps it was nerves over Obi's injury and how he would respond, or perhaps it was just trying to get a feel for VCU's havoc but for a team that has regularly come out attacking, they seemed very hesitant for the first 12 minutes of the game. Then they took a punch from VCU and found themselves down 5ish points and they went into attack mode. For the next 20 minutes or so of game time extending both sides of the half they were dominate. The last 12 were all about hanging on, and that's ok.


Driving home I get to hear a bit of the John Calipari coaching show every once in a while. Say what you will about the man, but he often provides an interesting nugget or two on his show. Anyhoo, on Monday he was talking about how sometimes he'll look at his team when they have an 8 point lead at the under 4:00 TO and tell them, to work hard, work smart, move the ball and fight like hell for 4 more points. He continued that if there's 3 and a half minutes into the game, and you're up 8, and can score 4 more, that means that the other team has to score 12 just to tie you up. By working the ball and breaking down the defense, you're using up 25 seconds of the game clock each offensive possession. If you can score on two of those trips and know that it will take some time for the opposing team to get any points each trip, they essentially run out of time. Well UD was up 22 with 12 minutes to go. Work hard and smart each time down the floor, try and get 8 points, or 4 solid baskets and VCU won't have enough time to make a comeback. The only area UD fell short was turning the ball over too often in the last 12.


At the end, they took VCU's best shot, this should prepare them well for the next 4 games as well as the eventual trip to VCU down the road. There are not that many dog fights in the A10, and UD needs that kind of experience to prepare them for March.

Canonball 01-15-2020 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 609272)
I've brought this up before: if Obi or Crutcher gets hurt we're screwed. So when we get a big lead, put in Cohill and Matos and Jordy. Run them ragged. Either the other team makes a comeback to make it closer, or . . . are you ready for this . . . guys who were recruited for their basketball ability develop. :eek: It's been known to happen.

I'm with ya on this one. It's painfully obvious the offense gets stagnant when Obi and Crutcher sit. I don't think it's going to affect where the Flyers end up in league play but I think it's critical come tournament time. Getting Cohill, Jordy and Matos some confidence now will pay in March when the Flyers will need it. Otherwise you're praying for good matchups and no whammy's. Better to be prepared and have roll players understand the pace, toughness, and awareness they will inevitably need. I think they can do it, they just need some floor time.

pmcmullen 01-15-2020 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 609303)
So let me get this straight, Dayton did not play to win until the final horn?

Was there something said in the huddle like "hey guys you've played well until now but the strategy has changed now. Let's see if we can play terrible the rest of the way and lose the game."

There are plenty of people posting that clearly saw the same thing as me. With way too much time remaining, we obviously changed our game plan from "attack" to 'kill clock."

Yes, it happened. It was obvious, and my guess is it very much came out of a huddle. I am pretty sure I've stayed that clearly. Please show me where anyone that has shared these views, including me, said that is playing terrible? I simply stayed I'd rather continue playing to bury them.

Clear yet?

CT Flyer 01-15-2020 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcmullen (Post 609284)
You can play what-if's all day long, but especially in a big game against a team that is as good as VCU, I'd be playing to win until the horn sounds at the end. No mercy!

Sounds like someone thought we weren't playing to win in this quote. Is it possible that AG thought the best way to win was to take time off the clock. We may disagree with his assessment and maybe agressive was a better way to go but I don't think we were ever playing not to win the game.

ClaytonFlyerFan 01-15-2020 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 609304)
Within the friendly confines of the Palatial master bedroom, that's not a foul...it's foreplay.

Any other questions?

Dude, your an empty nester, why limit your options to one room? :D

SLUFLYER 01-15-2020 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT Flyer (Post 609315)
Sounds like someone thought we weren't playing to win in this quote. Is it possible that AG thought the best way to win was to take time off the clock. We may disagree with his assessment and maybe agressive was a better way to go but I don't think we were ever playing not to win the game.

Personally, I didn't have a problem with them slowing it down and burning some clock each possession AFTER successfully breaking their press and reading what was available. If there was a two on one, baseline/backdoor lob available then I think they should have taken it. But once we hit the ~6-minute mark with a ~20-point lead, I'm OK with running the half court sets and burning another ~20 seconds/possession unless we had an extremely high % deuce. I was OK with them passing up wide open threes with 20+ on the shot clock and having broken the press.

What I did have a problem with during VCU's "comeback" or trimming of a 22-point lead down to 12 with 2:38 to play and 10 with 1:22 to play was 4 turnovers (3 by Chatman) during a sudden inability to navigate the press. And I had a problem with our inability to consistently generate quality looks (some downright bad) out those half court sets.

Chris R 01-15-2020 05:15 PM

We might be screwed if Obi or Crutcher get hurt, but if the first or second best player (or both) on any A10 team gets hurt, those teams are screwed too.

Take Evans and/or Silva off VCU: screwed.
Take JAG and/or Grady off Davidson: screwed.
Take Fatts and/or Langevine off URI: screwed.
Take Gilyard and/or Blake off UR: screwed.
Take French and/or Goodwin off SLU: screwed.
Take Lofton and/or Osunniyi off SBU: screwed.
Take Carry and/or Weathers off DUQ: screwed.

You could make a case Dayton is far less screwed however.

66flyer 01-15-2020 06:19 PM

I'm with ChampCar. Thug city! It almost looked like a head lock on Rodney when he got slammed to floor. I really thought it would be called a major flagrant and the Ram wold be tossed. Should have been gone. That T on Jordy was ridiculous. He was trying to help his teammate. VCU had 3 Ts called on them, a trademark of thugs.
I shudder to think how they will be in their home gym.

N2663R 01-15-2020 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R (Post 609324)
We might be screwed if Obi or Crutcher get hurt, but if the first or second best player (or both) on any A10 team gets hurt, those teams are screwed too.

Take Evans and/or Silva off VCU: screwed.
Take JAG and/or Grady off Davidson: screwed.
Take Fatts and/or Langevine off URI: screwed.
Take Gilyard and/or Blake off UR: screwed.
Take French and/or Goodwin off SLU: screwed.
Take Lofton and/or Osunniyi off SBU: screwed.
Take Carry and/or Weathers off DUQ: screwed.

You could make a case Dayton is far less screwed however.

Hopefully we will be the screwdriver and not the screw . . . :cool:


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