I said "coaching replacement". I don't really consider Blackburn a replacement though technically he was. UD wasn't much of a program before him and I don't think they looked at it as a critical point when hiring him. It just turned out that he was fricken amazing and turned us into a real program.

It may mean something for Dayton to be in the BE. But there is little chance the BE expands. Best chance is some new conference with parts of A10, MVC and a couple one offs. But won't have much better TV, money. And no auto bid for some number of years.
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All you guys that think that if we were in the new Big Least, that all in the sudden our recruits would be 5 star, and future pro hall of famers are just delusional.... Dayton would not change at all, nor would their ability to attract recruits change.... it is all in your simple little heads..... just not reality! Wake up!
GO FLYERS!

We went to the tourn 4 years in a row - and not one of them was because of the autobid. I don't think that will be a show stopper. But it is clear that Wichita State, UD and other schools at the top of their conference that do what they need to build a successful program - are going to get pinched by Larger conferences that continue to schedule more conference games - ACC going to 20 for example. Meaning less and less games against p5 schools for us. This will force those schools serious about BBall to break from those that are not. An auto bid is not the concern. Playing schools that do what is needed year in and year out to be in the top 100 RPI wise is. Archie said recently that in 3 years it was going to be really difficult to schedule games against p5 schools. Something is going to have change - and that likely means a new BBall centric conference. 11 schools - playing a round robin for 20 games.

A better conference certainly does help attract better recruits.

Yep, actually I think he said in one or two or three years. That quote was probably the biggest writing on the wall that Archie was leaving.

I
And that's when the auto bid will matter. When you get no P5 games, then the new league becomes a very competitive two bid conference.

1. Hire head coach (done)
2. Round out assistants
3. Retain recruits
4. Get in the Big East

6. World domination

Did I miss #5?

I thought Step 1 was Collect Underpants and Step 3 was Profit?

#5 is to be determined, but rest assured world domination is there at #6.

I am not holding my breath about the Big East. I think that ship has sailed and is not returning to this port. Never say never, ....but do say highly unlikely.

#5 Profit

#5 is the reality issue that says UD to BE never happening.

Back to you Bedell, an ambulance just went by; oh wait, is that a police car or a hearse???

Which ever comes first
 

Or which ever comes first!?!?

Let's get moving on #2
Sounds like we are 1-1 on #3

1 for 2, and Carter is retweeting MW release tweet...

I think Carter also retweeted Davis' staying with UD, so not sure that means much.

Good to hear- that must have occured since...

Well I think he liked it, more than retweeted it, but what do I know.

Carter and Davis still had UD on their Tweeter page, MW took his down immediately.

Wonder when Grant will be meeting with Carter?

If we were in the Big East:

1. Archie may very well still be our coach (Indiana a big draw, I realize)
2. MW is our PG
3. Carter is still coming
4. No threads about the AAC (we are not going to a football conference)
5. The beer at Tim's tastes better
6. The chapel bell rings a little clearer
7. We would probably host the First Four moving forward
8. We make the tournament 9 out of 10 years
9. We are not a stepping stone or a retirement ground for an alumnus
10. No issue with SOS, home and homes
11. Better recruits
12. Better assistants
13. No more high school gyms at Bonnies, Fordham, and LaSalle
14. No more matching up against a #4 seed quality team while seeded as a #7
15. Way more money than the A10
16. Prestige that goes with playing in a top conference
17. Way more exposure on the networks and media
18. Get to beat down on Xavier again on a regular basis
19. Eliminate 50% of the posts on this site complaining about recruits, scheduling, seeding, and general disrespect
20. Elevating profile of all other UD athletics
21. Align us with more like institutions
I could go on...

Why is there not a three person committee dedicated to getting us into this conference?
Any costs incurred will be more than made up when we join.
I am sorry, if UD is so great and we can do so many things in the community, growing our campus, and improving UD as a brand there has to be more that we can do to make this happen.

The reasons that I have read that prevent us from getting in:
1. Not a big enough market
2. Xavier admin hates us
3. DePaul hates us
4. GTown hates us
5. Travel
6. There is some super secret Jesuit handshake that we don't know

All of the above is bull, and we are misinformed. These are Catholic institutions and have to be reasonable. I realize that college sports are a business, we just have to come to an agreement that works for the current members. With all the connections, brain power, and cash that UD has we sure can make it happen.

Yes, you're right. The reason we're not in the Big East is we don't want it enough.

There sure seem to be a lot of people on this board alone who don't, or are resigned to the fact that we can't or won't get in. This should be as important as acquiring the fairgrounds, updating the arena, whatever. Maybe the administation does not want it enough. That may be the problem.

It's quite simple actually. TIMING. If the Big East is looking for new schools now (before Archie left), we would be coming off 4 consecutive NCAA appearances with an Elite 8 run and have arguably the best coach under 40 in the country. At worse, I think we would have gotten in over Creighton (although I know there was some heavy Marquette influence there).

Unfortunately we didn't have much to offer at the time, or enough for them to take a flyer....and were not getting in the BE....it's over.

Wait, I forgot two more excuses:

1. Timing (it's over)
2. We just don't want it enough

Still not buying it.
Conferences are fluid, they change all the time.

Wait and see about what happens with the tv contract. I would not say we are definitely not getting in.

This isn't an original idea, but I think the far more likely scenario is a conference we've yet to hear of. Form an alliance with the best programs in the A10 and move forward inviting like minded programs from the MVC, MAAC, etc to make a small, less-than but similar Big East type of league. I think that's the most likely scenario and a slight step up from the current A10 structure.

That would seem to be a LOT of work just to be a slight step up over our current situation. If we can dominate the A10, we will be dancing ever year and be able to attract the recruits we want/need. Anything less that a jump to a currently existing or newly formed P5 league does nothing for us. IMHO the only things holding us back from the BE, are our TV market and our lack of consistent dominance in the A10.

A Midwest based conference like the Valley will have no interest in joining up with schools from the MAAC. The Valley, for the most part, does not have to travel far for games. Most are bus trips. They would want no part to traveling to MAAC schools who have absolutely no name value in the Midwest.

Don't you think a poster on holy land of hoops can come up with a list of all there reasons why UD should not be in the BE?

Cut out all the bs and there are legitimate reasons why UD wants to be in the BE. However, there are legitimate reasons why the BE schools don't want UD in the BE. Guess who wins?

I agree, if we knew that the A10 would continue unchanged for a decade. I often read 'dominate the A10' and have slight pause. We have been very good in the A10, but we just got off our first EVER outright title in what was our most prepared team to win in the last decade AND we were bounced in our first conference tournament game. We haven't won a conf. tournament championship since I have been following the team (was a frosh in '05). The teams that dominate their non power-5 conferences (zags, wichita in MVC, Memphis when they were in Conf. USA) truly DOMINATED. We've had good seasons, but we haven't done that.

On top of that, we look like we're heading towards a slight decline in production. I just think the sentiment to 'dominate' the A10 is overstated. With all of that said, I still agree if A10 stays the same over next 10 years I wouldn't 'work hard' to create a new league. But if someone takes VCU, Big East takes SLU (who will be very good very soon), we're left with an even more decimated and certainly more mid major league. Trying to be proactive, not reactive, as I learned in a Crisis Management course at UD.

Those leagues were thrown out as taking say one from each, not a contingent. Without really putting hard thought into it, you take Dayton, VCU, SLU, St Joes, Davidson, URI and add Siena, Illinois State, etc etc to form a 9 or 10 team league. More staying power there and all solid RPI programs traditionally.

Temple, Richmond, Wichita State and Memphis not sienna and definitely not Illinois state

Go up not lateral
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Richmond you're right. Temple and Memphis no chance, football. And Wichita State isn't leaving AAC either.

I'm dealing in reality. You should add Gonzaga and Nova to your list, that would be a step up.

Okay Debbie downer. Not talking today...or next year, but down the road when/if uconn cincy bolt and they are left with ecu....
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The Big East is not going to consider a program like SLU.

The only way it expands is if ifs a program like UConn, but of course other things are going to have to happen for that to occur.

Big East expansion just isn't remotely likely in any period that is relevant for discussion. As far a SLU goes, they are 10x more likely to going to the Valley than the Big East and that's not even likely.

Yeah, what's to consider? New market, very good program back on the rise, major US city. Bridge to Creighton. Jesuit, like most there. Agreed, they never would consider them. They should consider us, the same exact thing as Xavier except not as good. I heard the East Coast Bullies love Southwest Ohio.

What would be the step up here? The MAAC is filled with a bunch of schools that are similar to schools that tend to be in the lower half of the A10. And our peer, WSU and only consistently good school in the MVC, has just bolted the MVC. UD is where it needs to be right now in a world of limited options: in the A10 (assuming a minimum solid base of 4 - with the goal of more - top 75 RPI teams) with behind the scenes positioning for the next Big East opportunity where our administration views (and our fan base if we are honest) our peer institutions to reside. Football conferences or inferior alliances are not the answer.

Have you ever been involved with the church? Politics and religion mix quite well in the church hierarchy. Catholic institutions do not have to be reasonable if they choose not to.

Go study some Jesuit and Marianist history and compare the style and philosophy. Jesuit's tended (and dare I say still are) hard liners. :eek:

Whatever happened to Women's field hockey or was it Lacrosse? That was talked about by Dr Dan only a few years ago (no more than 3). There were comments that, that was a team sport which would have helped our 'cause' with the BE.

That talk vanished shortly after it was brought up. Seems dead now. So did the feedback from some BE members indicate that, "No that wouldn't help us either."

Money
 

Since it's all about money...I don't see why the BE would seriously consider Dayton. Saint Louis, in a major city, another matter entirely.

I see this it post #205 on this topic, we will be posting #10,999 some time in the future and still won't be in the NBE.

What school(s) in the MAAC would be worth forming a new conference with?

Post #207 here

We need to find out the specfic barriers and make a deal. So many issues go away with us in the BE. UD needs to find a way.

It's a 2 way street. They have to want us to join. Right now their is absolutely no indication that they are looking to expand and want to invite us. Until then, all we can do is keep winning A10 titles in as many sports as possible to show a well rounded athletic department.

I understand and agree that winning A10 titles is part of that.

We need to determine when there would be a potential opening, present our case.

It is also a two way street regarding recruits wanting to come here, yet we have 10 threads about that. If there was an answer for the BE or recruits or whatever, there would be no need for a thread.

What is UD doing to get us into the BE? Where did we fall short last time? What needs to happen moving forward?

1. Correct
2. Incorrect - X is scared of UD. We have $500 million+ endowment and are preparing to run a capital campaign that could easily double that. X has an endowment of $140 million and their Athletic Dept. is treading water. They fear the longer term competition.
3. Not an issue
4. Not an issue
5. Not an issue
6. Correct, that is how Marquette dragged Creighton into the BE instead of UD getting in.
7. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$. Sports is getting more expensive and the BE is only going to add teams that add $$$$$$$$$$ to the overall pot or add a unique visibility or long term return that they feel is worth it.

City size does not dictate financial benefit of each city.

UD brings in larger crowds and is the significantly larger TV market when you look specifically at NCAA basketball.

I was raised in another denomination if you will. So let me ask you of the Catholic faith, is there really a lot of politics in the church between Marianists & Jesuits? Can I presume like a college fraternity there may sometimes be an unhealthy competition- where a member of the frat will receive preferential treatment due to that alone? I had presumed being a private Catholic university would have checked off that box but I am sensing that is too naive...

Actually that's not really true. The Dayton DMA has high ratings. But it is lower population. A 2.0 rating in a metro DMA of 500,000 brings in about 10,000 homes. A 0.5 rating in a DMA with 3,000,000 homes brings in 15,000 homes.

Dayton provides ratings, but not eyeballs. And advertisers pay for eyeballs.

To be fair, though. If the games weren't buried on premium tier networks, I bet the ratings for UD's games would be even higher.

Dayton wins big and they'll have no choice. Location or institutional fit isn't gonna get it done.

If Dayton strings together a run of success like VCU or Wichita and they'll be more interested

You are dreaming OSU.

I'm wondering how much this sports programming bubble is gonna have on the next TV contract for the Big East. Can't imagine they'll ever see a contract like this again

Plus with other conferences going to 20 gsmes, thd Big East will be likely to follow, then they need to expand.

I'm sure xubrew can correct me but I would think if the Big East gets a pedestrian TV deal next go around a lot of those schools are gonna be in trouble

Xavier and Butler have it's own arena. Villanova and St Johns have smaller on campus arenas they use. I wonder how a Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence are gonna do renting out arenas. Georgetown and Seton Hall have attendance issues based on how their seasons are going. Renting an arena is an upfront cost and I'm sure all these folks are losing money on ancillary revenue

I would think there's a good chance UD is in better financial shape than many or most of these schools if TV money got on near equal footing

Streaming rights is the current negotiation aspect.

This may belong in another thread but what would you pay for UD games if PPV was the only way to get them?

Adding one team would do the trick.

I'd pay like $70 a season, more in seasons it was likely they make the NCAA. That's provided the stream quality is good and something I can watch on a HD tv.

I would probably pay 75 to 100 if it included all home and road games and they were archived so I could rewatch them easily when I get home from the games that I do go to in person. UD could include the streaming package for season ticket holders too.

The only stipulation is that to get me to pay, the video and production quality must be much better than the current A10/UD streaming system. I'm not going to pay for a bunch of students who zoom in on the ball handler and cut away from live action for a 5 second replay.

I would pay much more -$500? I wonder at what point the conference would be able to make more off of subscribers as opposed to a network deal.

500? No way I'm paying that.

You can't price a streaming package more than a season ticket would be.

I already pay. It's one of the reasons I still have cable...

I'm sure Providence does pay to use the Dunkin' Donuts Center but I'm not sure how much. I do know though that the city wants PC playing there and rolls out the red carpet for them in many ways. A few years back they redid the concourse area of the arena and PC, including then head coach Tim Welsh, had their say in the redesign of it. Another words, for PC anyway, I think the city would figure out a way to make it work regardless of the loss of TV revenue for PC if that were to happen.

If they would televise all games I would seriously consider getting rid of my season tickets.

But how much would you willing to pay when ESPN, FS1, etc. no longer can pay for rights to games and the option to watch the games on cable doesn't exist.

If you don't live in Dayton, the cost of the a season ticket does not make a difference. I pay $6 for a movie on demand all the time. I would have no problem paying double, triple that for the Flyers.

I don't live in Dayton either, but 500 total for a season would be around $16 a game which is too much imho. I could see $10 per game as the most I'd be willing to pay which would end up being around $300 for the season.

That's craziness... I can't believe people pay that for on-demand movies. I'd consider myself pretty well off and wouldn't do that.

You can get every game of the NHL/MLB/NFL for like $250.

I agree with you, but the schools are going to be trying to replace the money they won't be getting from the TV networks anymore so it's hard to tell how much it will end up being. I think $5 per game would be a reasonable figure, but I would only pay that much for UD games. I'm not going to pay that for some random game between teams I have no connection to.

There are many people that want to watch all those games so the cost of broadcasting can be spread out. I just think that the networks are going to have a harder time justifying the expenditures on some games that don't draw large audiences.

Do you go to the theater to see a movie? Cost a lot more there.

Do you ever buy a coffee at Starbucks? Can make it for a lot less at home.

Many people spend many $s on things each of us would never do and we probably do the same. To each his own. Consumer spending helps make our world go around.

You can't price it at more than a cable package, that's silly. Of course people on a Dayton basketball message board will pay more than the average person for it. But if you want lots of eyeballs, you're going to have to be reasonable for what you charge. Now if they got creative and packaged it with access to all A10 games, then there's enough volume to start raising the price.

$5 per game via pay per view/ on demand of some sort. I would do that.

I guess some of you are not real Flyer fans - just kidding.

I didn't ask what the realistic price would be, rather, what would you pay?

I'd pay more. I have a monkey on my back. I need my Flyer fix twice a week during the season.

However, my price drops quickly if next year's pg is already on the roster.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! Thank you for having the balls to say what most of the "sane" people on this board are thinking...