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-   -   You Make the Call - Smacking the backboard (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32133)

rollo 05-08-2018 10:07 AM

You Make the Call - Smacking the backboard
 
I reffed an AAU tourney this past weekend and here's a YMtC to ponder...

It's an up and down game...fast paced, little defense and even less fundamentals. Kids at the AAU level love to show off their dribbling skills and deep 3's, and rarely like to show off their defensive skills...which makes the royal ref sad because we all know you win with defense (except the Cavs...they win with LeBron!).

So Joey-the-Cherrypicker takes off deep after a shot. His teammate grabs the miss and throws it deep for a layup. Little does Joey know that James-the-Swatter is on his tail. Joey goes in for the layup and at the last second, sees the Swatter and double pumps.

The double pump was a little strong and went higher off the backboard than planned...but Swatter went for it anyway and with as much energy and effort as possible, went for the rejection...but missed!

Because Swatter missed the ball, there was a very loud 'WHACK' as his palm smashed against the backboard. Because Joey was a little intimidated and tossed the ball too high, the shot completely missed the rim...a very embarrassing airball!

You're the ref....what's your call....

shocka43 05-08-2018 10:46 AM

No call...had contact been made with the ball...it "may" have been a goaltending depending on the upward or downward flight of ball.

If backboard is slapped due to a play on a ball or incidental contact...no call...

If a backboard is slapped out of frustration or some other unsportsmanlike play such as showboating...tech.

TXFlyerFan 05-08-2018 11:34 AM

Now that I've re-read, I would change my call to no call. I missed the part about it being an air-ball. I think if the ball had hit the backboard and then the player hits the backboard, then my guess is basket interference, but since it was an air ball, probably no call. And I'm probably wrong at my normal 50% pace.

Larymike 05-08-2018 02:08 PM

Him slapping the backboard didn't alter the ball movement so no call.

88flyer 05-08-2018 03:13 PM

Total guess on basket interference only. No T because it was not intentional. No goal tending because he didn't touch the ball. I'm thinking if the ball is above the rim, the defense can't touch the rim, net, backboard, etc... The shot does not have to be a shot that will go in - it just has to have a chance...

... and I'm ready for the King smackdown.

Gazoo 05-08-2018 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan (Post 550025)
Now that I've re-read, I would change my call to no call. I missed the part about it being an air-ball. I think if the ball had hit the backboard and then the player hits the backboard, then my guess is basket interference, but since it was an air ball, probably no call. And I'm probably wrong at my normal 50% pace.

I read it to say the shot hit high on the backboard, but too strongly to fall gently into the rim.

Gazoo 05-08-2018 03:55 PM

I say it's like grabbing the rim, even if the shot may not have gone in either way you can't grab it and then leave it to the ref and his protractor to figure out the angle of decent. It still rattles the rim so I say basket interference.

Plus, intentionally slapping the backboard forcefully like that doesn't happen purely by accident. Judgement call, but based on the description ("with as much energy and effort as possible") it sounds to me like rollo is saying he smacked it on purpose, which is a T.

If it wasn't deemed to be on purpose in the moment I would say no T.

TXFlyerFan 05-08-2018 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 550079)
I read it to say the shot hit high on the backboard, but too strongly to fall gently into the rim.

It reads a bit odd. On one hand it says too high off the backboard but then says embarrassing air ball. I always considered an air ball something that didn't touch backboard or rim as opposed to not just touching rim. Maybe my definition is wrong.

CvilleFlyer 05-08-2018 08:05 PM

Basket interference 2 points because as a defender you can’t touch the backboard, the rim or the net on an attempted shot! The referee can’t tell if the shot has a chance to go in or not! A shot is a shot even if it is a lousy attempt.

shocka43 05-10-2018 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer (Post 550123)
Basket interference 2 points because as a defender you canít touch the backboard, the rim or the net on an attempted shot! The referee canít tell if the shot has a chance to go in or not! A shot is a shot even if it is a lousy attempt.

You can while making a basketball play on the ball. If you swat to block a shot and come into contact with the backboard, it is perfectly legal unless the ball is on the rim.

The rule depends on where the ball is. If the ball is in the air and there is an attempted block as the ball is in the air and a defenders hand hits the backboard, there is no violation as the ball has to be in the cylinder or rim.

Ball on rim or cylinder, you have issues. Ball outside cylinder or rim, no issue.

UDGutter2 05-10-2018 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka43 (Post 550259)
You can while making a basketball play on the ball. If you swat to block a shot and come into contact with the backboard, it is perfectly legal unless the ball is on the rim.

The rule depends on where the ball is. If the ball is in the air and there is an attempted block as the ball is in the air and a defenders hand hits the backboard, there is no violation as the ball has to be in the cylinder or rim.

Ball on rim or cylinder, you have issues. Ball outside cylinder or rim, no issue.

While I will take your word for the rule, you should know it better than i, I respectfully disagree with the rule. It would be very difficult to bank a shot in off of a shaking backboard.

shocka43 05-10-2018 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 (Post 550267)
While I will take your word for the rule, you should know it better than i, I respectfully disagree with the rule. It would be very difficult to bank a shot in off of a shaking backboard.

There may be an exemption if the basket moves to cause a ball to not go in as there is if the net or rim is grabbed and doesn't reset to level prior to the ball getting there.

Regarding the comments posed reference the quoted incident, the slap of the backboard was a result of a player trying to block a shot. It is virtually impossible for an airborne defender to stop a hand/arm motion on a block attempt if the offensive player throws up an errant shot. The D shouldn't be penalized due to poor O play. It would be as if a player went to pin a layup and the offensive player threw it over the backboard...O shouldn't be rewarded.

shocka43 05-10-2018 11:44 AM

There may be another interpretation that Rollo can educate us on too...

San Diego Flyer 05-10-2018 11:56 AM

I say if his slap hit the board above the box, stop play and immediately offer him a scholarship. :)

rollo 05-10-2018 01:44 PM

I'll just say this: The backboards at Beavercreek HS's main gym are as tightly secured as any I've ever seen because this kid hit it hard and nothing shook...not even a little.

As Shocka shared, as long as you smack the backboard during a legitimate attempt to block a shot, it's legal and 'no-call' is proper. I'm not going to get involved with the details of 'goaltending' and/or 'basket interference' because they don't apply IN THIS SITUATION.

A couple years ago I was at a tournament where a kid did the same thing and the entire backboard shook back and forth causing an easy layup to roll off the rim. His attempt to block the shot was legit, but it was on a basket that was lowered from the ceiling and loose enough that a 'smack' made it move. In that case, you blow the play dead and count the basket. But only because he affected the play.

King Rollo the Rule Interpreter...OUT!

88flyer 05-10-2018 06:16 PM

Hmmm... by this rule, the backboard only has to "vibrate", which if it was hit that hard, it vibrated. If the ball was in the cylinder, which extends up above the rim, I would interpret differently than the king, but then again, that's why i'm an armchair ref (and that's an older rule book, so it could have changed). I defer to the King.

"Violations- Basket Interference. (Rule 9-17.2.5). Basket interference occurs
when a player causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or
within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder."


Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 550316)
I'll just say this: The backboards at Beavercreek HS's main gym are as tightly secured as any I've ever seen because this kid hit it hard and nothing shook...not even a little.

As Shocka shared, as long as you smack the backboard during a legitimate attempt to block a shot, it's legal and 'no-call' is proper. I'm not going to get involved with the details of 'goaltending' and/or 'basket interference' because they don't apply IN THIS SITUATION.

A couple years ago I was at a tournament where a kid did the same thing and the entire backboard shook back and forth causing an easy layup to roll off the rim. His attempt to block the shot was legit, but it was on a basket that was lowered from the ceiling and loose enough that a 'smack' made it move. In that case, you blow the play dead and count the basket. But only because he affected the play.

King Rollo the Rule Interpreter...OUT!


rollo 05-10-2018 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88flyer (Post 550342)
Hmmm... by this rule, the backboard only has to "vibrate", which if it was hit that hard, it vibrated. If the ball was in the cylinder, which extends up above the rim, I would interpret differently than the king, but then again, that's why i'm an armchair ref (and that's an older rule book, so it could have changed). I defer to the King.

"Violations- Basket Interference. (Rule 9-17.2.5). Basket interference occurs
when a player causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or
within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder."

I'm tellin' ya...the backboard didn't vibrate. It was like a brick wall. Not that it mattered...therefore:

NO CALL!

ClaytonFlyerFan 05-10-2018 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 550347)
I'm tellin' ya...the backboard didn't vibrate. It was like a brick wall. Not that it mattered...therefore:

[

I have seen Rollo put up a few shots between games in an AAU tourney, and trust me when I say, he is an expert when it comes to bricks

rollo 05-11-2018 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan (Post 550353)
I have seen Rollo put up a few shots between games in an AAU tourney, and trust me when I say, he is an expert when it comes to bricks

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7MnncqYP5yo/hqdefault.jpg

Gazoo 05-11-2018 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 550080)
I say it's like grabbing the rim, even if the shot may not have gone in either way you can't grab it and then leave it to the ref and his protractor to figure out the angle of decent. It still rattles the rim so I say basket interference.

Plus, intentionally slapping the backboard forcefully like that doesn't happen purely by accident. Judgement call, but based on the description ("with as much energy and effort as possible") it sounds to me like rollo is saying he smacked it on purpose, which is a T.

If it wasn't deemed to be on purpose in the moment I would say no T.

So I assumed the intent was on purpose, and that it rattled the rim, so I got it right!

88flyer 05-11-2018 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 550347)
I'm tellin' ya...the backboard didn't vibrate. It was like a brick wall. Not that it mattered...therefore:

NO CALL!

The king lives on!

rollo 05-11-2018 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88flyer (Post 550396)
The king lives on!

https://i2.wp.com/s9.favim.com/orig/...6379.gif?w=960


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