Frustrated
 

I know I can't be the only one who is frustrated at what appears to be the slow pace of information/updates on what is going on. You can see it in various threads that are ongoing. It's been several weeks and the only things we know for sure are that AG is the new HC, we've hired one assistant of some sort, one recruit is for sure still committed, and two commits have de-committed.

There are a number of transfers floating around, we're out of the dead period, and it would appear we're missing out on a lot of contact time because we don't have a full coaching complement. The one thing you can never get back is time, and while we all want the right things to happen, no one wants to lose the momentum of the last 4 years. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more concerned about the apparent lack of activity than I am about Grant's probability of success in coaching games, at least for now.

In the end, nothing can be done about it. No amount of worry or consternation will change the pace of change that will occur, but dang, it sure is frustrating right now. I want to go into summer and fall with good feelings and high expectations!

TXFlyerFan I hear ya as it can be frustrating waiting on news/information. I've decided to step back as what's going to happen will happen with little input from us. As you mention the summer, personally I've decided I'm not going to go the entire summer worrying what directions the program will go. I'm expecting a dip in production, but who knows how much of a dip. Change is upon us and I am sure stuff is moving behind the scene, but without much info coming out us on the outside are left being concerned and frustrated.

I think most of us share your sentiments. I think we are all waiting to see a NEW TOPIC popup that offers good news.

The anxiety is broad among Flyer fans. I actually choose to believe that AG is communicating with Jordan Pierce and Matej Svoboda. It would seem that if he was not, they would have made their choice public to encourage suitors.

The void in assistant announcements is the lesser of the evils IMO.

Keep thinking that I will open the page and there will be 200 posts on UDPride, indicating the dam has broken and the info is flowing.

Instead we get a steady dribble on worn-out threads, mostly about a joker named Ray.

The void in assistant hires and contact with spring recruits sans Frankie Hughes is very worrying to me. Those assistants are gonna be the key on what happens in the spring period.

I think what happens this spring is gonna be the key in determining the trajectory of the next two seasons.

[QUOTE=, mostly about a joker named Ray.[/QUOTE]

A joker named Ray?!? I heard this exemption al human counted backward from infinity to negative infinity.

OK, my only comment on Ray.

How long did it take Archie to hire his coaches when he was hired here?:whiteflag::worried::D

We all thought that Archie held info tight to the vest..... It would appear the AG is even better at it. We all need to be patient!
GO FLYERS!

AG hired 3/30/2017.

Today is 4/16/2017.



Archie hired 4/3/2011.

KK hired 4/11/2011.

TO hired 5/3/2011.

AG hired 6/6/2011.



http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=183

I think there is probably a ton going on behind the scenes. Whether or not those things will eventually be visible or like Archie and always secretive is yet to be seen. Point guard is the immediate huge need and I'm sure AG is working hard to address it. Everything else he can do for next year is gravy.

The early period was my biggest fear when AG was hired since he was out of the current recruiting cycle. With his feet on the ground and a full staff behind him I think he will put together some very nice recruiting classes in 2018 and beyond.

It's frustrating (scene)
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkz8GGZlzKs

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink
:beermug:

I think the frustration comes from the fact that we knew what we had, and we liked it and trusted it, and now we are unsure of what we are getting and whether we will like it or trust it. It's the not knowing.

When BG left, we were ready for a change. He hit a wall that he could not get over and the Staten issue made that point. When AM left, we were not ready for it. I don't think we saw a move to IU coming. We thought we were good until the OSU job opened up.

I'm frustrated about being frustrated!

the frustration for me comes down to uncertainty. my biggest worry when Archie left this year was the timing...if we only had one or two new guys coming in, there is much more known about the program. now we have 5 open spots that were filled, with only one of them now firmly committed, a coach that hasn't been recruiting and an unfilled staff. that is a lot of variables to deal with, expecially when we liked the trajectory and direction of the program. This is a tremendously important time for the program. Are we finally in that tier of programs that can withstand this level of change, or do we take a step back and have to claw our way back as we did in the last two coaching changes? We all want the former and we know that with all of the unknowns right now we are at risk of the latter. filling these holes will giveus some clarity.

You Determine Your Expectations
 

You have complete control over your expectations. If you maintain high expectations for the Flyers you may be ignoring reality. Had nothing changed would the Flyers be picked to win the A-10 next year and secure and NCAA bid for the 5th straight year? Probably not. They may have been picked to finish top 5 in the A-10 but an at-large bid would appear remote. Now add in the coaching change and the loss of recruits. AG should prove to be a very fine coach.
He will not be entering next year under optimum circumstances. The roster should be lighter than expected and there may be further erosion. Next season will be a learning year for the players and the new coaching staff. Do we blame Archie for this? I think not. He is responsible for managing his career and what is wrong with success breeding success? Dayton won the regular season A-10 for the first time ever. He produced the most wins of any senior class in UD Men's hoops history. He won COY in the A-10. He was marketable and it was an easy choice for Indiana. Now you tell me what a rational person would predict the UD Flyers to do next year.

My frustration has everything to do with archie, and nothing to do with Coach Grant. I was gullible enough to believe all the coach speak, but in reality, he had no loyalty to the university, the program or his players. He bailed, leaving the program and Coach Grant in a terrible position with 5 new recruits coming in. Three million a year at a school he claimed to love wasn't enough. There are few men who honor commitments and contracts left in the world of coaching men's college basketball. Down deep I knew this, I was just hoping archie was different.

No doubt in my mind Coach Grant is working as hard as humanly possible to put the best staff and team he can get in place for next season.

In October, there will be basketball players on the floor and coaches on the sidelines. UD will field a team.

I expected Archie to have a challenging year with the departure of an outstanding senior class. There are some good players on the rosters, but a lot of holes and some unknowns. How good can Kostas really be? Expecting him to match his brother might be unrealistic at least for this year. Now Anthony has more challenges due to loss of some recruits. A new system will also challenge the existing players.

The departure did leave some continuity problems. You have to believe that Anthony has been working tirelessly to deal with those challenges.

Personally, I would rather have good results when available rather than speculation and hurried too fast poor results. I can wait.

Hate to say it, but you and other's were going to have those same feelings this year, or any other year that he decided to part ways. Obviously money isn't the issue. The realistic ability to compete for national titles. Can UD get there? Yes. Realistically, year after year and decade after decade? No.

Nothing wrong with being ticked, but business is business. I don't know anyone who wants to retain a job that doesn't come out in full support of his current job or boss. Nothing different from Archie versus some dude wanting to climb the ladder in sales...only to leave for another job with a higher ceiling. It is what it is.

Not sure why next year is written off under Archie or AG. Archie was looking at Troy Simons down in Florida at a JUCO. Good chance he sticks around & there's some turnover in the roster & the door opens to a grad transfer/juco to help the back court.

You hire a 50 year old guy with 9 years head coaching to hit the ground running. There shouldn't be learning period with AG

Plenty of opportunity to put a staff together & lots of the options on the table at least at the start to fill in the holes in the spring signing period.

Look AG is coming to a program with a record of amount of respect & visibility in the modern era. The Dayton brand can open more door with transfers now than when Archie got here. There's no reason on April 1st moving forward he couldn't put together a competitive roster for next year

This pretty much describes everything that is wrong with college athletics today. We now equate it to big business with it all being about personal goals and saying and doing whatever it takes to get there.

Archie may have done some good things here, although I believe the players had more to do with it, but he should never be revered to the level of Don Donoher. He had his chances to leave, but chose to stay for reasons that were bigger than himself. He represented what used to make college basketball great in those days.

If this makes me "butthurt" over Archie leaving, as you once said, then so be it.

The timing sucks. Big time. Losing 4 seniors. Losing our coach (and at least some of his staff). Losing at least 2 recruits (probably more). Having five scholarships to fill (this would have been much easier last year if we only had one recruit to worry about). And all of this happening just as we are starting to feel like we are going to break through into that next level of teams.

I get that. I really do. All of that sucks. However, If I hear one more person talking about honoring commitments I am going to throw up. And not just a little. I am going to projectile vomit all over the walls.

What made AM great while he was here is the same thing that made him leave. He is a competitive SOB and wants to win all the time. He wants to be remembered as an all-time great. Do you know who won't be remembered as an all-time great? Mark Few and Gregg Marshall to name a couple. Great coaches...but not coaches my grandchildren will know about. You need to win Championships (plural) and that was less likely to happen here. He gave us 6 years. So instead of whining about commitments (when all of us change jobs more often that every 6 years) I wish we could all appreciate what we have with this program. Thank AM for leaving it in a better place than he found it, and put our energy behind AG.

You don't seem to mind that our current coach just abandoned his job responsibilities a couple of weeks before the playoffs. So stop it with the honoring commitments BS.

Which brother are we talking about here? Expecting Kostas to match the oldest Antetokuompo brother, Thanasis, in year one seems doable maybe. He's made his mark on defense in the NBA D-League where he's been a 2nd and 3rd team all-league defensive selection. Personally, I tend to think Kostas will come in similar to Xeyrius where his positive contributions were mostly on the defensive end in his freshman year, before his offensive game took off in his sophomore year. But back to Thanasis, he is only 6-7 unlike Giannis and Kostas who go 6-11 and 6-10 respectively. Because of that and because he picked up the game at a younger age, you can make a reasonable argument that eventually Kostas will surpass the skill of Thanasis....

BUT EXPECTING KOSTAS TO BE AS GOOD AT BASKETBALL AS GIANNIS IS AT ANY POINT LET ALONE YEAR ONE IS NOT JUST UNREALISTIC, ITS CRAZY!!!

Giannis Antetokuompo is the first player in NBA history to finish in the top 20 in total points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks in a single season. He is regarded to be A TOP 5 / TOP 6 PLAYER IN THE WORLD right now with Durant, Steph Curry, Harden, Lebron, and Russell Westbrook.

But if crazy was reality, and Kostas actually became a top 5/6 player in the world, then Dayton should absolutely be playing for a national title in the next 4 years.

I'm not bitter about AM leaving. He was going to leave at some point. I am bitter about the fact that no program was put in place to ensure any kind of continuity. Not sure if that's on AM, the admin, or both. This board consistently rails against X (for both good and bad reasons), but they have managed to successfully navigate through multiple head coaching changes with little, if any, disruption. And yet, here we are, worrying about a new coach, a new system, how many of our new recruits, outside of the 1 affirmed commitment, will be here, an incomplete coaching staff, a potential assistant already nixed by the admin, etc.

Yes, we have high expectations, and they may not be aligned with current reality, but I don't think it reflects well that whenever AM left, that we would potentially take several steps backwards. Once expectations of success are set, you maintain those expectations. The University's expectations haven't been reset, not sure why ours should be.

This.

there were hires that could have been made that would put those concerns to rest

In my view AM did live up to the conditions of his contract. He had a short list of schools that he could go too at any time. IU was one of those schools. He didn't cause the opening at IU, and had the opening not occurred he would still be a Flyer, it did and he isn't. I doubt he would say "I'm a Flyer unless one of three schools open then I'm gone". The contract read that way but no way he expresses himself to the fans that way, lets move on. Agree timing was bad but we have an experienced coach coaching at his school. Loyality shouldn't be an issue.

Yes you are "butthurt", imho.

If Archie leaving UD caught you by surprise, you simply aren't paying attention. His days here were numbered as soon as he was hired. Same with Anthony Grant. Nothing is forever.

Except me. :cool:

hopefully your avatar

Didn't know I needed your permission to express my opinion about commitment. Guess what, I don't. So go throw up.

If he is successful, then I expect him to stay here for longer than 6 years! Lol.

As long as you also condemn AG for not honoring his commitment with the Thunder. You can't be OK with AG and not with AM just because you didn't like one of the moves.

Me thinks we need some new news....

Quite honestly, my being upset with Archie has less to do with him leaving and more to do with how he left. I don't mean how he said he'd be at Dayton as long as they would have him, I mean by mentally checking out before the GW game. In my opinion, and that of other college BB fans, including IU fans, he left UD shortly after the VCU game. Had he mentally coached UD the remainder of the season, it may have led to a higher seed or better 1st round matchup, and who knows where that would have led. His perception of UD not being able to compete became reality because he gave up and was ready to move on. Again, just my opinion and that of other fans, not just UD, and I have no problem if you disagree.

Will Wade at VCU stayed two years. The good ones go and are upwardly mobile, while coaches like Kellogg (UMass) and Lonegan (GW) get asked to leave.

I don't think Archie checked out after the VCU game, the team checked out after the VCU game. Archie mentioned in the post game that he worried about the team clenching when they did. I love these seniors, but the last 3 games the seniors played with no sense of urgency at all. If anyone mentally checked out the last few games it was them. IU didn't even open up until the day before we played WSU. While we lost, I didn't think Archie coached any differently or had checked out. I think many here are just upset he left and trying to blame Archie with how things ended.

And you won't get any disagreement from me on the condition of "coaching student athletes".

The issue is that the culture of NCAA athletics is bigger than one man. That one man isn't going to change the culture by doing what we would see as the "stand-up" thing with kind of an old school view.

I think if we take a step back and look at coaches across the board there are a few things in common. They want to be compensated well. They are primarily ego driven, which leads to the idea of competing year after year for championships. I have friends that coach at some pretty high level HS's. They all have the same Type A, ego-centric vibe, that makes them good coaches, but it is also the mindset of many good coaches.

Sure, most coaches genuinely care about the players they have playing for them. They also want to win and win big. They also like money. They can care for players no matter where they are....they can make really good money and a good number of schools....and they have the best opportunity to compete for titles at an even smaller portion. Most coaches are going to maximize their potential for all three.

I watched the 30 for 30 episode about John Calipari last night. The show describes the state of college basketball as much as it describes him.

The NCAA favors the big schools and looks the other way. Coaches jump to higher jobs and leave the other programs in the hurt. If violations occur, the coach faces no sanctions if hey go to a larger school. The old joke. Michigan and Ohio State violate the rules, so Morehead State is put on probation.

The episode stated very quickly that Memphis knew Rose was ineligible. Cal had to know. They played on. He moves to Kentucky. Memphis vacates wins and receives three years of probation. Kentucky receives nothing in terms of sanctions. Biancardi goes to Wright State and that university is sanctioned for what he did at Ohio State.

I have a friend who served on an NCAA committee. He told me that Kentucky one and done players would register for winter classes and never attend. Wow!

UD players attend classes even during their last season on the team. Kentucky devalues a college education and makes it a joke. Good for those NBA players and very sad for the guys who don't make the NBA.

The NCAA system frustrates me much more than the hiring of assistants.

BTW. Two of Archie's new assistants are former Calipari assistants. I hope Archie stays cleaner than Cal.

Well we got some.
Posted via Mobile Device

And if it is true, great news. Welcome Jordan Pierce.

So if Grant's staff is complete and is announced tomorrow (or Friday) as some have said, he will have filled out his staff much quicker than Archie did when he was hired here. Maybe then the (unwarranted) criticism in that area will come to a halt. And player announcements shouldn't be too far behind.

big difference between a 32 year old first year coach & 9 year head coaching trying to keep momentum going

Yes I'm guessing the number of qualified assistants looking to hook on with an experienced, successful coach would be much more to deal with than an unproven upstart. To get his staff assembled much quicker than AM would be quiet a feat.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well then, good thing AG will have a month and a half head start with a full staff than where Archie was at this point after his hire.

True. Grant probably had nearly a hundred more applications to sift through based on his experience and the current state of the program.

Amazing how many coaches were able to get guys on staff quicker than AG

Just can't give AG any credit can you. Didn't like the hire and we will be hearing about it from now on. Thankfully you are in a very small minority.

Everyone needs to chill. AG has been extremely active in both hiring assistant coaches/support staff and recruiting.

He is hiring and recruiting at as good of a level if not better than Archie was 6 years ago (and AG was in the NBA for the past 2 years whereas Archie was a college coach).

Staff will be announced soon. More important to get it right than rush. Mix matters, you want to have 3 assistants that complement each other in terms of skills, recruiting geogrpahic regions, etc.

Making huge progress on new recruits. Keeping 2/5 old recruits is great.

Keeping all but Crosby with existing players is great (and I actually think losing Crosby is a plus mid to long term even though may be slightly negative in 2017-2018).

Just do not believe other coaches are getting it done more quickly than AG (especially considering from NBA and did not know he was moving whereas others like Will Wade were in college and had good idea they were moving). I would even argue AG moving as fast or faster than them.

And you know this how exactly as far as the comparison to Archie? I'm the furthest on this board from bashing and certainly even questioning Grant and his first 2-3 weeks on the job and what he's done/hasn't done as really none of us on this board outside of maybe a handful knows exactly what goes into taking over a program and the hurdles/obstacles that are confronted..Just curious..

Did we hear something on Svoboda? 3/5?

It was confirmed by the DDN that no one has contacted him form UD. Of course AG may be working on a different option, and/or he may know that Svoboda will likely not be eligible.

I read that too. I'd made a comment before that I hoped AG thought the Czech was a good fit for the program. Then I saw where a report says he's not been contacted at all. Guess he's not a good fit.

You had it right FLYER5
 

You were right in the first place, apparently he was a good fit for AG.

Then you were wrong, he obviously was being contacted, but this hierarchy that lives on UDPride was not kept abreast of the communication. Horrors.

And he is now thought to be a good fit by AG.

Go figure.

To be fair Jablonski said he contacted Matej & he said he hadn't heard from Dayton
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All's well that ends well :)

Didn't Svoboda himself say that nobody has contacted him from UD? It wasn't just assumed that because DDN didn't say that he was contacted that he wasn't. There was a little more to get us to that assumption.

I think it's fair to say that since we just got his commitment he had been contacted in some form. Not necessarily a direct call from AG. We had a fair number of UDP posters that were dead sure he was gone. In fact a nauseating number that felt all 5 were gone and we can book it. Not enough crow to go around actually. Never gave Grant a chance.

Maybe David Jablonski was trafficking in fake news

I'm surprised he kept 3 of the 5. I wouldn't have considered it a failure on Grant's part if he hadn't kept any. A recruit spends a lot of time researching just to cut it down to a handful and then a couple of schools they want to attend and play for. Most of the time, the Coach and his personality plus the basketball style he coaches is the main decider. It takes a huge coincidence for the new coach hired from outside to fit the same criteria said player was looking for.

And AG is not off the hook yet. If the players he retained turn out to be less than desired due to AG's coaching style then it would've been a mistake to keep them. Changing systems is very messy all the way around. Players that feel there aren't any better options left due to it being to late might stay and not be right for the system.

So the real test for AG is going to be if he can tweek his own desired system to make the most out of the resources he has and then gradually build the resources to fit his system.

I would be very surprised if Anthony didn't get the scoop on all 5 recruits from the exiting staff. And with the knowledge that Archie was a good judge of talent, coupled with the limited recruiting time he has to fill slots, Grant sees enough talent on film to shore up a roster that will be very competitive just with returning players. His willingness to exit Crosby does put him on the spot, but I'm thinking in that specific case he feels he can cover the issue. We'll see on that.

Personally, I'm holding at 18 wins until we see the guards. 2 cents. But regardless, this team is going to be fun to watch develop.

"willingness to exit Crosby"? Is there something I don't know about? I thought it was Crosby's choice?

Really? :D:D :outtahere:

Well, we are in a quiet period right now through July 5, except for 4 events, one of which is a dead period May 18-26. Apparently coaches can only have face to fact contact with recruits and parents on campus, can't go watch them play except for a couple evaluation events. So, unless kids are coming to UD's campus, we may not hear much on potentials for quite some time. No idea when the new calendar comes out. Could be a long summer.

Speaking of Crosby... any news on him? I'd be curious if there would be any outside interest in him and at what level.

Personally I feel like AG told him it might be best to move on, but thats 100% speculation.

he left because everyone on this board said bad things about him and it hurt his feelings...

thought I read "somewhere" Maryland Eastern Shore.....

I am pretty sure that was just an assumption of someone on here. It could turn out to be true, but I have not seen anything actually written about Crosby since he announced he was transferring.

Educated speculation. If you're the only returning pg on the team and you all of a sudden leave, odds are the coach mentioned that you may not see much time as he would be recruiting several pg's.

Doubt it was quite said that way. Under the circumstances the best thing to say would've been "I hope to land another PG or 2 and there will be competition for minutes between you and him/them". No way to you shoo away the only current player at the most important position before you have solidified the position with others.

Thought the same thing, Smitty. Why would AG get rid of the only pg when he didn't have another on the roster. I mean I can believe it, but that's not my most logical interpretation. I would say that Crosby had more to do with the decision than anything AG said to him. If you re-trace the steps the writing was on the wall that JC would not start next year.