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-   Mens Basketball (http://www.udpride.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Trouble brewing (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31923)

Sea Bass 02-22-2018 02:41 PM

Trouble brewing
 
Quote:

As Yahoo! Sports' Pat Forde and Pete Thamel continue to report about ASM Sports and former NBA agent Andy Miller - part of the ongoing federal investigation into college basketball corruption - the latest story mentions that former Xavier stars Edmond Sumner and Semaj Christon are among American-based clients to have left ASM since the scandal broke.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...ion/362856002/

rollo 02-22-2018 03:09 PM

I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.

OSU Flyer 02-22-2018 03:30 PM


OSU Flyer 02-22-2018 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 538912)
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.

Can't risk that non-profit status

N2663R 02-22-2018 03:49 PM

Samari Curtis just passed me in a brand new 7 Series . . . :whistle:

Widget 02-22-2018 03:55 PM

The canary in the coal mine will be Chris Mack. If he decides that there is a better place to coach next year, could be trouble brewing.

TommyGola 02-22-2018 04:25 PM

I always thought Sumner's disappearance was a bit fishy. I hope the NCAA cracks down in a big way and stops tilting the field in the direction of the cheaters. Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina and Xavier have gotten away with too many tricks for too many years.

The Fly 02-22-2018 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGola (Post 538940)
I always thought Sumner's disappearance was a bit fishy. I hope the NCAA cracks down in a big way and stops tilting the field in the direction of the cheaters. Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina and Xavier have gotten away with too many tricks for too many years.

For those old-timers out there (and I’m one of them) who remember the early days of UDPride and the old A-10 board in the aftermath of the Brooks Hall recruitment, this almost — a-l-m-o-s-t — makes one consider a No Pants-style retort. Ala, XAVIER CHEATS! ��

Flyerferd 02-22-2018 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo538912
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.


Yup, and when that happens, we will have the most expensive D II arena in the country! I just can’t wait for top-notch rivalries like Findlay and Ohio Dominican to develop! *Last two sentences sarcasm* This scandal is bad for those involved, but possibly worse for those not.
Posted via Mobile Device

MNFats 02-22-2018 05:18 PM

Considering he took the unconventional path to the NBA, I doubt there is an issue here, but let's not forget that Andy Miller is the agent for Brian Roberts.

Sid Louick 02-22-2018 05:27 PM

Speaking of Brian Roberts -- where is he these days?

OSU Flyer 02-22-2018 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Louick (Post 538952)
Speaking of Brian Roberts -- where is he these days?

Greece

priceg75 02-22-2018 07:04 PM

If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.

MNFats 02-22-2018 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceg75 (Post 538970)
If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.

This part of the investigation is less about colleges paying money for recruits, and it's more about agents giving money to coaches in exchange for signing their players.

But like I said, given his unconventional path to the NBA I doubt there is a problem. Just didn't want us to get too high on that horse about the X guys...

DallasFlyer 02-23-2018 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceg75 (Post 538970)
If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.

You could argue that the people who gave Brian Roberts only two stars are far stupider. And what about all the idiots who went to Xavier? That’s a pretty large contingent of stupid right there.
Posted via Mobile Device

frisco flyer 02-23-2018 06:37 AM

The Plot Thickens...
 
Exclusive: Federal documents detail sweeping potential NCAA violations involving high-profile players, schools

Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.

Gazoo 02-23-2018 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frisco flyer (Post 539023)
Exclusive: Federal documents detail sweeping potential NCAA violations involving high-profile players, schools

Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.

Where is that listed? I don't see it anywhere in the link you provided.

udflyerfan 02-23-2018 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 539034)
Where is that listed? I don't see it anywhere in the link you provided.

Look again - it’s there!!
Posted via Mobile Device

jumpin' joe 02-23-2018 08:31 AM

Heck, if this gets real big and far-reaching we may just get that at-large bid this year.:eek:

rollo 02-23-2018 08:41 AM

Proving that the coaches knew of these payments won't be easy. From what I've read/heard, most of the money was used to influence these players into signing with an agent, not to attend certain schools.

Regardless, it will be interesting. It'll only take a few schools getting slammed to start the breakup of the fragile NCAA.

UdGrad2009 02-23-2018 08:50 AM

Agree with Rollo. This is more about a direct payment system from Agent to College Players, does not seem to be a widespread effort with coaches involved. So say a Xavier probably gets minimally penalized if at all for Sumner. The big fish in that article seem to be Michigan State, with Izzo mentioned, Villanova coaches mentioned. That is where the NCAA will be focusing its efforts.

Interested to see if these current players named are immediately suspended by their teams. Could change the outlook for many top teams in the tournament.

Gazoo 02-23-2018 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udflyerfan (Post 539036)
Look again - it’s there!!
Posted via Mobile Device

OK I'm blind. Who is listed above and below Sumner? Sorry for being dense.

ud2 02-23-2018 09:12 AM

Is there anything that can be done about these unscrupulous, rogue agents?

I think they prey upon many of these athletes and their families that come from tough, poor backgrounds.

Have some sort of registration system with the NCAA? Prove that you are a principled, upstanding, non-corrupt, ethical person.

Sea Bass 02-23-2018 09:16 AM

Quote:

Schools identified by Yahoo! as having players who possibly violated NCAA rules include Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State, USC and Kansas. At least 25 players are linked to impermissible benefits, including Michigan State's Miles Bridges, Alabama's Collin Sexton and Duke's Wendell Carter.
...
Other teams with current or former players who allegedly received payments were South Carolina, Louisville, Utah, Xavier, Wichita State, Clemson and Alabama.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...ken-ncaa-rules

UD62 02-23-2018 09:21 AM

I see a hotel charge for $254, an advance for $2500 and a hand written note of $300

Ready Action 02-23-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 538912)
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.

I like the quote "If your school produced a first-round pick in the past three years, be worried.”

In that case there's nothing to be worried about 'round here :)

Flyer68 02-23-2018 09:29 AM

These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on." That is a load of crap. With the power, fame, responsibility and assistants these coaches have, they have a good idea what is going on and just look the other way. Let the assistants take the fall.

The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches. You can't tell me that someone does not tell the head coach or his assistant for NCAA violations, that this agent is on campus or has been talking to parents and \ or students.

A lot of the "payments" to students and families are written down by the agent as "loans." Apparently the ASM agency has definite and specific records with amounts, names and the type of transaction - dinners, lunches, plane reservations, cash etc.

I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.

UdGrad2009 02-23-2018 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer68 (Post 539052)
These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on." That is a load of crap. With the power, fame, responsibility and assistants these coaches have, they have a good idea what is going on and just look the other way. Let the assistants take the fall.

The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches. You can't tell me that someone does not tell the head coach or his assistant for NCAA violations, that this agent is on campus or has been talking to parents and \ or students.

A lot of the "payments" to students and families are written down by the agent as "loans." Apparently the ASM agency has definite and specific records with amounts, names and the type of transaction - dinners, lunches, plane reservations, cash etc.

I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.

While there is no doubt some coaches will be implicated, I think you are missing the issue. Dawkins, who worked for Miller, is from Saginaw, MI. Many of these players implicated are also from Michigan. Dawkins did not need to step foot on a college campus, he went to the players homes and parents. That is nearly impossible for any coach to keep tabs on.

MrFlyerFanatic 02-23-2018 09:38 AM

Violation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer68 (Post 539052)
These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on."

The Pitino defense sounds a lot like lack of institutional control.

Ready Action 02-23-2018 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer68 (Post 539052)
I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.

You are 100% correct. The IRS is ALWAYS the FBI's ace in the hole. If you do not cooperate with the FBI they will threaten to bring the IRS into the equation. And with the IRS you are guilty from the start and only can hope to reach a settlement.

UdGrad2009 02-23-2018 09:40 AM

This is a different type of scandal, so far, from U of L. This is an agency, paying players and their families directly. At U of L, they took the payment from Adidas and were the middle man, to paying Bowen.

rollo 02-23-2018 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer68 (Post 539052)
The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches.

I doubt any of this happens on campus. 'Runners' don't want to be seen, especially if they're handing out cash.

As I posted a few months ago, a local AAU coach was filling me in about how a certain HOF coach from a Big12 school came to town to recruit a City League player...coach told the AAU coach to tell the player to go out to the parking lot and there would be an envelop in a large SUV for him. No promises...just an envelop. the Coaches come to town to watch the kids play then leave without so much as a handshake with them. That's how this sh*t goes down. The less witnesses, the better. And head coaches don't do the dirty work, they just want to be seen by the player. Nor do most agents, which is why they have runners. Separation is a good thing. Putting the agent and the kid together will be easier than putting the agent, kid and head coach together.

Sea Bass 02-23-2018 09:42 AM

Head coach doesn't even have to know. The player took money he is ineligible.

All the players in Andy Millers book are ineligible.

frisco flyer 02-23-2018 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoo (Post 539043)
OK I'm blind. Who is listed above and below Sumner? Sorry for being dense.

Former South Carolina player P.J. Dozier received at least $6,115 while in school, according to the documents.
Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.
Former Wichita State player Fred VanVleet. Documents show he received at least $1,000.

TommyGola 02-23-2018 10:00 AM

Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.

UdGrad2009 02-23-2018 10:06 AM

This will mushroom out to many more players, many more schools. The information Yahoo got seems to revolve around Dawkins. He was the main Michigan guy for Miller. I am sure it will come out there were other "Dawkins" around the country working for Miller doing the same thing with the top players from their region of the country. Then other agencies will be implicated and the truth will be revealed that any player in college basketball with a future in the NBA or Europe, was at least offered benefits from sports agencies.

Whacker 02-23-2018 10:06 AM

Burn it down.

rollo 02-23-2018 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGola (Post 539066)
Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.

I can't wait to see Izzo cry at his denial press conference.

What will also be interesting is to hear whether or not the FBI is/was conducting similar investigations with respect to Football. Seems to me that both would be occurring concurrently.

Radar 02-23-2018 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGola (Post 539066)
Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.

Maybe there are more MSU alums who are former governors or congressmen out there to come in and straighten out their mess!

shocka43 02-23-2018 11:27 AM


hawkoooo 02-23-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerferd (Post 538949)
Yup, and when that happens, we will have the most expensive D II arena in the country! I just can’t wait for top-notch rivalries like Findlay and Ohio Dominican to develop! *Last two sentences sarcasm* This scandal is bad for those involved, but possibly worse for those not.
Posted via Mobile Device

This seems dramatic and highly unlikely. Even if they did break off, they would have to bring some non-football conferences along with to maintain the quality and appeal of the product. People do not tune in to the NCAA tournament to watch some crappy 8/9 matchup between overseeded middling P5 teams. They come for upsets, cinderella stories, David v. Goliath. You can't sell that without David.

CE80 02-23-2018 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 539070)
I can't wait to see Izzo cry at his denial press conference.

What will also be interesting is to hear whether or not the FBI is/was conducting similar investigations with respect to Football. Seems to me that both would be occurring concurrently.

Izzo will question whether they got the right guy.

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 12:50 PM

This is supposedly just one agency. More out there

Sea Bass 02-23-2018 12:57 PM

tip of the iceberg. However, maybe the Feds don't have anymore.

jpk4ud 02-23-2018 01:11 PM

Mack is quoted down at the bottom of this article:

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-f...103338484.html

N2663R 02-23-2018 01:31 PM

Tom Izzo will retire at the end of this season to "spend more time with his family." (as he prepares to go to prison)

shocka43 02-23-2018 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2663R (Post 539112)
Tom Izzo will retire at the end of this season to "spend more time with his family." (as he prepares to go to prison)

Nah...they will all end up sheltered from it while some dude that owns a local car dealership will fall on the grenade.

Radar 02-23-2018 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka43 (Post 539125)
Nah...they will all end up sheltered from it while some dude that owns a local car dealership will fall on the grenade.

More penalties for Cleveland State.

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar (Post 539128)
More penalties for Cleveland State.

This is gonna be a rough couple of years for the Vikings

ruechalgrin 02-23-2018 02:06 PM

Echoing the Fly above, lets not cast stones as Dayton lives in a glass house. 15-20 years ago ...

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...s_3_years.html

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin (Post 539134)
Echoing the Fly able, lets not cast stones as Dayton lives in a glass house. 15-20 years ago ...

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...s_3_years.html

throwing stones at Xavier is fun though

N2663R 02-23-2018 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 539129)
This is gonna be a rough couple of years for the Vikings

Off topic, but whatever - CSU built the Wolstein Center on the heels of Kevin Mackie's success in 1991. It seats 13,600 and loses in excess of $1 million per year and is rumored to be torn down soon. This year CSU has drawn 18900 home fans - TOTAL. That's an average of 1350 per game. By comparison, the UD women have drawn 33,800 total for an average of 2,600. So, yes it has been and will continue to be rough for the Vikings.

Flyerferd 02-23-2018 02:37 PM

[OTE=hawkoooo;539092]This seems dramatic and highly unlikely. Even if they did break off, they would have to bring some non-football conferences along with to maintain the quality and appeal of the product. People do not tune in to the NCAA tournament to watch some crappy 8/9 matchup between overseeded middling P5 teams. They come for upsets, cinderella stories, David v. Goliath. You can't sell that without David.[/QUOTE]


Highly unlikely? I disagree. Consider these converging factors. Remember the NCAA, while it likes to claim control, has absolutely no control over college football’s playoff system. That’s where the money is made. With the exception of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, And possibly a couple others, basketball does not make near the amount of money football does. I see a scenario where the power five maybe inviting a few schools from the American, breaks off for football purposes, and basketball/The tournament, is simply a casualty. To me, this scandal speeds up that process. The Goliaths will be hard to beat, when they are not associated with the NCAA, and therefore can’t play in their tournament. Who’s left? Additionally, as Colin Cowherd pointed out this morning, Adam silver is waking up with mentions of NBA players and NBA teams as a part of this scandal. Silver hates college basketball as it is. Watch the G league. It’s going to turn into more than a developmental league for post college players. Top talent will go there instead of college completely skipping that process.
Posted via Mobile Device

rollo 02-23-2018 02:44 PM

It won't be long until kids can go straight from HS to the NBA...no more 1-and-dones.

Radar 02-23-2018 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollo (Post 539142)
It won't be long until kids can go straight from HS to the NBA...no more 1-and-dones.

It's the best option IMO. Not Bilas' suggestion that these players get (more) of a cut of the $$ pie.

I've said it elsewhere: college isn't for everyone. If you're a genius and want to be a brain surgeon, go to school and get your degrees. If you can shoot like Steph, have a 42" vertical, but can't spell vertical...go directly to the show...do not pass go...do not collect $20,000.

NJFlyr71 02-23-2018 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ud2 (Post 539044)

Have some sort of registration system with the NCAA? Prove that you are a principled, upstanding, non-corrupt, ethical person.

Crazy talk! There wouldn't be any!

TommyGola 02-23-2018 03:10 PM

And Chris Mack had this to say:

"I have no relationship with Andy Miller or any of his associates. He plays no role in the recruitment of potential student athletes on Xavier’s behalf. Beyond that, our staff has never created a path for him to foster a relationship with any of our student-athletes while enrolled at Xavier. Any suggestion that I or anyone on my staff utilized Andy Miller to provide even the slightest of financial benefits to a Xavier student-athlete is grossly misinformed. We are prepared to cooperate with any and all investigations at any level.”

NJFlyr71 02-23-2018 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka43 (Post 539083)

I don't know nothin'!

How was I to know that the Cadillac Escalade my player drove wasn't paid for by him? :rolleyes:

NJFlyr71 02-23-2018 03:17 PM

Just remember this!


“Liars do not fear the truth if there are enough liars”

Agent Mulder X-Files

TXFlyerFan 02-23-2018 03:20 PM

Quote:

Highly unlikely? I disagree. Consider these converging factors. Remember the NCAA, while it likes to claim control, has absolutely no control over college football’s playoff system. That’s where the money is made. With the exception of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, And possibly a couple others, basketball does not make near the amount of money football does. I see a scenario where the power five maybe inviting a few schools from the American, breaks off for football purposes, and basketball/The tournament, is simply a casualty. To me, this scandal speeds up that process. The Goliaths will be hard to beat, when they are not associated with the NCAA, and therefore can’t play in their tournament. Who’s left? Additionally, as Colin Cowherd pointed out this morning, Adam silver is waking up with mentions of NBA players and NBA teams as a part of this scandal. Silver hates college basketball as it is. Watch the G league. It’s going to turn into more than a developmental league for post college players. Top talent will go there instead of college completely skipping that process.
Posted via Mobile Device
This is highly unlikely. There are only 26 G league teams. Even if it expanded a bit, probably not more than 32. Each team has around 11 players. Each year, there probably wouldn't be more than a small handful of openings on a team, as guys may take anywhere from 1-3 years to develop to be good enough and earn a spot in the NBA. So kids coming out of high school, there may be from zero to maybe 100 openings in the G league each year. Oh, and they are also competing against people around the world for those spots. So let's say maybe between anyone going directly to NBA or to NBA-G, 75 kids. That just means Duke only gets 4 McDonald's AA's instead of 5. IMO, it would only have a trickle effect on the talent across the NCAA. And frankly, probably opens a few spots for kids who went under the radar but will get a chance where they previously might not have had one.

rollo 02-23-2018 03:25 PM

Don't forget about LaVar Ball's Baller League for 18-21 year old players.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...hool-graduates

http://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img...34&cquality=40

^^^Junior Basketball Association logo ^^^

NJFlyr71 02-23-2018 03:28 PM

As if this is the first example of the fact that the NCAA can't (or worse) won't really perform the duties they established as the basis of the organization.

Billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to make and hardly enough time to spend it all. The majority of the front office assignments (to the selection committee be it the BB or FB playoff for instance) is weighted toward the P5 schools.

Look at the NC academic sports scandal .... since those classes were available to any student it was determined it was no violation .... but anyone with half a brain could see what the intent was ..... I guess it was a pretty smart ploy on the part of NC to develop that curriculum ..

The big powerful schools spend money on getting those loopholes open.

:popcorn:

Discussed on Fox Sports this afternoon, if you think college BB is an issue .... just think what college FB is all about ..... :eek:

priceg75 02-23-2018 09:01 PM

Whether teams knew about thus stuff or not, the players were still ineligible.

How the current players on the list aren't already suspended is ridiculous.

FlyerGuyer 02-23-2018 10:09 PM

Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation

Kevinob15 02-23-2018 10:13 PM

I’m just gonna drop this right here. Not looking good for Archie’s brother http://es.pn/2ChetU0
Posted via Mobile Device

Kevinob15 02-23-2018 10:14 PM

Whoops. Mobile delay. Crazy though
Posted via Mobile Device

jpk4ud 02-23-2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer (Post 539484)
Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation

Someone's in deep crap! I'm sure this stuff didn't start until he got to Arizona:rolleyes:

FlyerBob 02-23-2018 10:28 PM

Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .

I hear X is also named but don't know the details. Their coach gave a pretty bold statement about his innocence. Maybe proclaiming his innocence too much?

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerBob (Post 539491)
Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_NOjUry5s4...hY/s1600/1.gif

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerBob (Post 539491)
Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .

I hear X is also named but don't know the details. Their coach gave a pretty bold statement about his innocence. Maybe proclaiming his innocence too much?

hard to believe Sean just started this at Arizona

jpk4ud 02-23-2018 10:52 PM

FBI wiretaps show Sean Miller discussed $100K payment to lock recruit...Arizona self bands from 2018 NCAA tournament...NCAA agrees that is harsh enough:popcorn:

cj 02-23-2018 10:54 PM

Which is why we should be glad we have an athletic program that is above board, or hope so.

WarriorPride 02-23-2018 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar (Post 539147)
It's the best option IMO. Not Bilas' suggestion that these players get (more) of a cut of the $$ pie.

I've said it elsewhere: college isn't for everyone. If you're a genius and want to be a brain surgeon, go to school and get your degrees. If you can shoot like Steph, have a 42" vertical, but can't spell vertical...go directly to the show...do not pass go...do not collect $20,000.


AGREED!

I view Bilas' viewpoint as self serving, as his income is tied to the popularity of the sport much like a coach. If you want them to get paid, have them go to a pay-for-play league. Otherwise, the promise of free tuition, etc. should be a pretty good tradeoff in my book.

priceg75 02-23-2018 11:20 PM

Looks like Sean is never getting to that Final Four.

Archie was Sean's top assistant for a couple of years. Hmmm.

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceg75 (Post 539509)
Looks like Sean is never getting to that Final Four.

Archie was Sean's top assistant for a couple of years. Hmmm.

yeah, this has me a little nervous

Viperstick 02-23-2018 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 539510)
yeah, this has me a little nervous

We may be glad Indiana swooped in. They could be looking at Kelvin Sampson 2.0...

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 11:39 PM

As long he doesn't get the Elite Banner 8 taken down

ruechalgrin 02-23-2018 11:43 PM

Assuming reports are true. All below is pure SPECULATION.

Would be really surprised if Sean Miller just started paying players the last 1-2 years.

If he paid them from 2009 to 2011 while at AZ, do you think Sean and Archie discussed? Brothers usually discuss a lot, but perhaps Sean shielded Archie? If Archie knew, NCAA and IU sanctions coming. Archie probably could not be implicated without Sean or Book (assistant) calling him out. If Sean or Book would do plea deal, likely would have to tell them everything.

If Archie saw this at AZ, are we sure he was clean at Dayton? I know Wabler and Sullivan crystal clear about runnig a clean program, but a tad nervous here. Cannot control bad apples. Again no evidence Archie did anything wrong at AZ or Dayton.

If Sean and Book did this at AZ, did they do it at Xavier? Again, if either does a deal, they will likely recount all issues. Xavier should be even more nervous than Dayton. IF Sean did it at Xavier and if Sumner took $, they are in trouble. I think AD and President of Xavier (like Dayton) want to run a clean program.

This is only 1 agency and 1 shoe company so far ...

All points above are pure SPECULATION.

Again, don’t think we should be throwing rocks.

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin (Post 539513)
Assuming reports are true. All below is pure SPECULATION.

Would be really surprised if Sean Miller just started paying players the last 1-2 years.

If he paid them from 2009 to 2011 while at AZ, do you think Sean and Archie discussed? Brothers usually discuss a lot, but perhaps Sean shielded Archie? If Archie knew, NCAA and IU sanctions coming. Archie probably could not be implicated without Sean or Book (assistant) calling him out. If Sean or Book would do plea deal, likely would have to tell them everything.

If Archie saw this at AZ, are we sure he was clean at Dayton? I know Wabler and Sullivan crystal clear about runnig a clean program, but a tad nervous here. Cannot control bad apples. Again no evidence Archie did anything wrong at AZ or Dayton.

If Sean and Book did this at AZ, did they do it at Xavier? Again, if either does a deal, they will likely recount all issues. Xavier should be even more nervous than Dayton. IF Sean did it at Xavier and if Sumner took $, they are in trouble. I think AD and President of Xavier (like Dayton) want to run a clean program.

This is only 1 agency and 1 shoe company so far ...

All points above are pure SPECULATION.

Again, don’t think we should be throwing rocks.

No way this just started at Arizona

This is so agent/shoe company dominated that I don't see any of those guys wanting anyone at Dayton

lhsgolf19 02-23-2018 11:52 PM

Archie was not a good recruiter

I doubt he is part of this lol

OSU Flyer 02-23-2018 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 (Post 539517)
Archie was not a good recruiter

I doubt he is part of this lol

outta here with that

lhsgolf19 02-24-2018 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer (Post 539518)
outta here with that

haha you know what I mean

OSU Flyer 02-24-2018 07:06 AM

Darren Heitner

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A good source previously told me that FBI raided Sean Miller’s house on the same day as ASM Sports & took his computers. Not sure whether anything has been found.

Fudd 02-24-2018 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNFats (Post 538999)
Just didn't want us to get too high on that horse about the X guys...

Ride that horse baby! Ride high!


http://horsesinthesouth.com/blog/wp-...rickRiding.jpg

NJFlyr71 02-24-2018 08:02 AM

The resolution about paying players would not necessarily cause the issue to go away ...

here's why:

Say besides the free tuition, room board, etc each player gets OH say $10,000 a year ....

shoe or clothing company/ sports agents are just going to up their offer to ADD to the $10k. SO you still have the issue going on. Besides NOT all players are getting these sweet deals now only those with some potential NBA or NFL skills.

Another aspect of this is these kids were given money/perks before college. Tell me the agents will stop that since the player will get a small stipend IN school. How about the family? They benefited too. Nobody is going to want to give all that up.

No I think paying players IN school will not be the solution. Would it benefit the player who does not get the agents attention ... absolutely. Will the best players (and their families) still get some pre school cashola ... absolutely!!! :eek:

Anyways what better time for some of these details to come out as we face the closure of a frustrating, disappointing, sad BB season ..... :(

Something interesting to keep our collective mind off of the reality of it all.

NJFlyr71 02-24-2018 08:11 AM

This is only tip of the iceberg .... any top 50 recruit could be involved and any consistently top performing program should be looked at also

Count Georgetown and UD out (I hope).

Any fast riser (X and Gonzaga) IN.

Football should also be considered having these same issue. ANY agent. ANY apparel and shoe company representative too!.

This most likely is systemic throughout college sports and the NCAA is a very ... NO extremely poor organization to be the watch dog over such matters ...

the rich get richer mentally has got to stop ...... :popcorn:

shocka43 02-24-2018 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer (Post 539484)
Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevinob15 (Post 539486)
I’m just gonna drop this right here. Not looking good for Archie’s brother http://es.pn/2ChetU0
Posted via Mobile Device

Key point in the article that is everything wrong with NCAA sports...

The fact that if a coach is fired with just cause, he gets nearly 85% of this future salary. And you wonder why this stiff goes one...no one is in the poor house when they get caught.

shocka43 02-24-2018 08:16 AM

Connections do make anyone with ties to these programs nervous....

With that said, UD would have been pretty bad cheaters if a lucky E8 run was the end result of not playing by the rules...;)

BeckysTXA 02-24-2018 08:25 AM

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-wire...033139552.html

This makes me sick on so many levels. The coaches doing it make me sick because they do it to advance their own self-worth not to help a kid. It makes me sick if Archie was part of it. But mostly it makes me sick for all the programs and college players that aren’t part of it. Those that put in all the work to play D1 ball for a chance to catch magic and make a run because they deserved a level playing field to play out their dreams and it wasn’t even close to a level playing field. It’s hard enough to compete against the big schools with big budgets. Playing against pro (paid) players and their slimy coaches makes me sick.

Let the chips fall where they are going to fall. There will be some high schools that will hire the fallen coaches after they do their prison time.

CE80 02-24-2018 08:25 AM

Sean must really be sweating through his clothes now.

SeasonTicketFan 02-24-2018 08:39 AM

IU fans have to be nervous too. X is clearly nervous and in denial stage.

The money thing has gone on for a long time. I remember someone relaying a comment about a fifth year senior transferring to a big school. His comment was the money was better there.

TommyGola 02-24-2018 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA (Post 539558)
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-wire...033139552.html

This makes me sick on so many levels. The coaches doing it make me sick because they do it to advance their own self-worth not to help a kid. It makes me sick if Archie was part of it. But mostly it makes me sick for all the programs and college players that aren’t part of it. Those that put in all the work to play D1 ball for a chance to catch magic and make a run because they deserved a level playing field to play out their dreams and it wasn’t even close to a level playing field. It’s hard enough to compete against the big schools with big budgets. Playing against pro (paid) players and their slimy coaches makes me sick.

Let the chips fall where they are going to fall. There will be some high schools that will hire the fallen coaches after they do their prison time.

This is precisely why this must be nipped in the bud for both football and basketball. Others got it precisely correct; if they want a "pre-pro" pay-to-play, then do what the NBA development league or baseball does. But keep the college game a college game. Frankly, you might not have the very best players out on the court, but that is fine with me and should be fine with other true college fans. My concern is the NCAA is going to gloss over this and quietly let it go on, as they now are the pre-pro program and there are lots of dollars there! Weed them out!!!

Kevinob15 02-24-2018 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka43 (Post 539551)
Key point in the article that is everything wrong with NCAA sports...

The fact that if a coach is fired with just cause, he gets nearly 85% of this future salary. And you wonder why this stiff goes one...no one is in the poor house when they get caught.

I think the solution will be clauses inserted in their contracts nullifying all guarantees in the event of recruiting violations etc. Mike Greenberg used to talk about this subject on mike and mike regarding the student athletes and I loved his opinion. He said put a stipulation in the scholarship contracts that if they are found to have taken any money or other illegal benefits as stated by the NCAA, that they will then be responsible for paying back tuition fees in full. This was in reference to the Reggie bush situation at USC where he gets away with no consequences and leaves the school taking the fall. This system would atleast hit the parties responsible and not the current students who had nothing to do with it. It’s completely unrealistic and never going to happen but I always liked his take on it.
Posted via Mobile Device

jack72 02-24-2018 11:00 AM

There is and will be lots of speculation and rumors, but in the end minimal proof leading to prosecution and penalty by the NCAA. Just too tough, expensive and time consuming to prove. Anyway, as was said in the case of UNC, the deep pockets of these schools allow them to lawyer up to the hilt.

ruechalgrin 02-24-2018 11:15 AM

Book Richardson and Xavier. Curious who he recruited while at Xavier. Mark Lyons was one guy he recruited , 4 star top 100 recruit. Who else did he recruit while at Xavier?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/zonazea...o-arizona/amp/

https://247sports.com/Player/Mark-Ly.../college-32906

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...ticle-1.285184

http://goxavier.com/coaches.aspx?rc=115
Posted via Mobile Device

ruechalgrin 02-24-2018 11:22 AM

Players who started while Book/Miller were both at Xavier. Again not accusing them of anything, but if Xavier investigates itself or NCAA investigates then, this is where they will start.

Players include:

Mark Lyons
Tru Holloway
Jordan Crawford
Kenny Frease
Brad Redford
Dante Jackson
Jamal McLean
Posted via Mobile Device

TA111 02-24-2018 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack72 (Post 539591)
There is and will be lots of speculation and rumors, but in the end minimal proof leading to prosecution and penalty by the NCAA. Just too tough, expensive and time consuming to prove. Anyway, as was said in the case of UNC, the deep pockets of these schools allow them to lawyer up to the hilt.

Not when you have it on tape. We’ll see what the feds have.

MNFats 02-24-2018 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan (Post 539561)
IU fans have to be nervous too. X is clearly nervous and in denial stage.

Not sure why IU fans should be nervous. If Archie is involved WE are the ones that need to be nervous. Look at Calipari - He has gotten into trouble twice. In both cases he left those problems behind him. UMass and Memphis suffered the consequences while he moved on.

If Archie is involved - it will be on us, not IU.

BeckysTXA 02-24-2018 12:00 PM

I would love to read Sean’s contract. The 85% clause seems unreal to me when the norm is you get zero. But assuming it’s correct, I still feel AZ can counter sue him for issues dealing with representing the university and I believe all athletic employees have to sign a NCAA compliance form. A lot we don’t know from a paperwork prospective. All that said, I’m guessing AZ has enough to force Miller to accept way less or nothing on his way out the door. Ricky down at Louisville was threatening a lawsuit, but I haven’t seen anything. Maybe I’ve missed it? I think Sean is toast if the news reports are true. He’ll need big bucks to pay for a criminal defense. His lawyer will try to squeeze AZ for cash, but I don’t see that being too successful. You misrepresent yourself during a contract negotiation that negatively impacts the other party, you have problems. In this case, as recently as after Richardson was arrested, Sean made a public statement he was responsible for the compliance of his program. Maybe that was suppose to be his self-report?

BeckysTXA 02-24-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNFats (Post 539609)
Not sure why IU fans should be nervous. If Archie is involved WE are the ones that need to be nervous. Look at Calipari - He has gotten into trouble twice. In both cases he left those problems behind him. UMass and Memphis suffered the consequences while he moved on.

If Archie is involved - it will be on us, not IU.

NCAA investigation, yes. But not if it’s the FBI calling.


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