The New and Improved On Topic Obi Toppin Thread
 

Since the other one got sidetracked and moved to OTG let’s try this again.

Knicks have 6 players currently in protocol:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/status/1472237427129520129

Pray tell, Swampy what are they in protocol for????
:rolleyes:

Geez and I had been going over to the OTG section for some relaxing peace and quiet. Darn!!

Good news: The NYM play the Pistons tonight so the game will be locally televised

Bad news: Obi is still out until at least Thursday’s game
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Instagram reports that Obi Toppin is cleared from COVID protocol and can return to the Knicks.
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I have been stalking NY Knicks basketball message boards. I had to laugh at one NYK fan's comment on the news of Obi's return from Covid protocol.

"Get ready for 12-16 minutes of entertaining basketball!".

The Knicks could use the energy and change of style play from Obi. The league seems to have figured out their starters this year.

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...84284269334528

Obi came in with 1 minute to go in 1Q. In 8 minutes he missed a three, grabbed a board and committed a PF. The energy is there he just is not getting any touches.

Or as these guys put it:

https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1474189426074992645

I was following the play by play and I could just tell that he wasn't getting any touches. All the other players were selfish and taking their own shots. It's only when Quickley or Derrick Rose are in the game that they give the assists to Obi but Rose had ankle surgery today and will be out for awhile. Obi missed a 24 foot three point attempt and 30 seconds later Thibs pulled him and Randle went back in!

Obi's night is done. He made 2 FTs, grabbed 2 boards and dropped this dime to Robinson:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...05473456930817

Obi started the 4th quarter in place of Jericho Sims and plays only 5 minutes and got a nice defensive rebound at the 7:51 mark and was fouled and made both free throws to cut the Wizards lead from 100-95 to 100-97. Then, less than a minute later, Thibs sends Randle into the game for Obi.

Obi rumor from Bleacher Report, so take it with a small mountain's worth of salt. Here it is: https://dailyknicks.com/2021/12/22/d...-latest-piece/

KINGS GET
OBI TOPPIN, KEMBA WALKER,
ALEC BURKS
2022 FIRST-ROUND PICK (TOP-3 PROTECTED), 2023 FIRST-ROUND PICK (VIA DALLAS MAVERICKS),
2022 SECOND-ROUND PICK

KNICKS GET
DE'AARON FOX

I'm pretty sure there is NFW the NYK do this.

The Wizards. without their star Bradley Beal, defeat the Knicks 124-117. Obi goes back in with 27.3 seconds remaining in the game for Mitchell Robinson only because Robinson picked up his sixth foul. Another game the Knicks may have won if Obi had played the whole 4th quarter instead of only 5 minutes and 27.3 seconds of clean up. Oh well!

If that trade takes place we may see Obi Toppin in the starting lineup for the Kings!

Evan Fournier, the $78M Man, went 2-13 tonight but enjoyed a fat 38 minutes. Frenchie must have pics of Thibs double-drawing at a coke party at The Dakota or something because his love affair has ceased to make all rational sense.

How the He## does Simms get 22 minutes and Datson (on a 10 day G-league pass) get 16 - but Obi gets just 13 minutes.

It is sooooo frustrating watching Thibs rotations.

So can we cut the "so you're telling me Thibs forgot how to coach" line at this point, and just admit that Thibs simply doesn't like Obi?

For whatever reason he simply does not like him.

In fairness to Thibs, last night was Obi’s first game back. Teammate LJ Barrett was out the same amount of time and was held out last night due to conditioning issues.
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Same deal with Luka Doncic. Conditioning. He is almost fully recovered from bad ankle sprain and Covid. Still hasn't seen the floor.

The only reason that the Knicks front office hasn’t already fired Thibideau is because he was COY last year (only reason he got that award was because they were basement dweller the previous years). Thibideau consistently has said Obi is a defensive liability and isn’t a strong outside shooter. He only puts Obi in when he HAS to, and generally that means giving Randle a 6-7 minute break each half- usually near the end of the 1st and 3rd quarters going about 6 minutes into the 2nd and 4th quarters respectively - for an average of 12-14 minutes per game. Obi has been jawing at Thibideau in recent weeks showing the frustration and displeasure of those decisions and it seemed to work for a few weeks culminating in a 19 point/10 rebound game for Obi. That was his last game before going into covid protocols.

I know Obi wants to stay in New York so the question is: who leaves first- Obi or (a fired) Thibideau? I say it’ll likely be Obi. But if the Knicks lose another 8/10 games in the next few weeks, you never know. I’d like to see Obi go ANYWHERE that he could get quality mins.

Obi talks about his bout with Covid in this video clip. In bed for ten days.
https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/statu...96937827176452

Obi and NYK on ESPN right now. #1 had a nice dime on a Kemba three and KW returned the favor on an oop to Obi:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...98594360291329

Kemba also fed Toppin on this triple:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...00297281208327

Obi then slashed to the hoop for this bucket:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...00655810375685

9 points, 2 boards and an assist in 7 1st half minutes.

Oop to Toppin again: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...15628825530375

Obi finishes the festivities with the between the legs hammer:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...21974576844800

Nice game today while continuing to getting his feet back under him from being out. Time for Obi to come up with another in-game finisher dunk as us around here are seeing it for the third time. The Gotham crowed loved it though :)

Fournier was +21 and never stopped his man from getting a good shot. It's amazing how bad he is on defense. His man kept missing wide open shots. At least for the 15 minutes I could tolerate before my stomach was empty and I had moved on to dry heaving.

I believe this is Obi's 2nd Eastbay in the NBA, so 4 total since becoming a Flyer.

He did one at an away game for the Knicks, but this was his first for the MSG crowd. Christmas Day was perfect timing and glad I kept watching until the end of the game.

The Flyers may not be playing this week but Obi and the NYK are. He scored immediately:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...04138836279296

He also had 3 assists, a steal and a rebound in 7 first half minutes.

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...22585959796738

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...23770137731072

3-3 for 7 points but only a lousy 11 minutes.

As I have been stalking NYK boards to see what the fans think of Obi, his low minutes under Thibs seems to be dominating their thoughts lately. When I watch Obi play this year, he is gaining confidence like he did at UD in his 2nd playing year. I see that he knows how he fits into the NBA scene, and he is more aggressive in the things that he does well. I think he is still going to improve a lot in that league, but I get a feeling of confidence from him now that I did not see last year. Obi had that swagger in his 2nd year at UD. I see it coming back.

You can also see frustration with him when he is pulled - with only 10 minutes of playing time. That he is not playing at least 20 minutes a game is a crime or worse depending on what Knicks boards / Twitter feeds you follow.

Will be interesting to see how many minutes he gets tonight vs the Pistons.

He would be averaging 15 PPG on the Warriors. His off-ball movement is something very few NBA players achieve; NBA players spend all their energy driving 1:1 or standing at the 3 point line. Very few, outside of Golden State, expend the energy to cut hard on play after play when you only get that ball 1 out of 10 times. It's simply not worth their effort.

Obi is a Jason Giambi / Moneyball of the NBA. He's not the guy who gets 0.300 / 40 / 100. He just gets on base and scores your team runs. And playing with a guy like Steph / Tristan who turn defenders heads he would rack up a lot of points + assists by filling a gap.

Gads I hope he gets traded soon.

He is the Knicks leader in offensive efficiency stats even with his limited minutes. Thibs has something personal with him. Anyone else who makes the same mistakes can make them without fear of being pulled. Not obi. He gave up a 3 point play and the followed with a travel. Immediately yanked from the game. Fournier and Randle can each miss 7 consecutive shots and play no defense and Thibs wants more.
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Lob to Obi, so what else is new?

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBA/statu...56094079475715
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Bench gets you a substantial lead.. puts starters back and gets thumped.

Thibs can't get out of his own way.

Another Obi oop this one from Taj Gibson:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...69372323057664

But wait, there’s more:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...72107214802946


Obi closed out the game and the scoring with 2 made FTs. Thibs finally sits a highly ineffective Julius Randle for Obi and it pays off with a NYK W.
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Another oop to Toppin for the lead.
https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Check out these+/- stats:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CortezEra...76318308724741
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Glad you mentioned Golden State. Before the 2020 draft, I was thinking he would flourish in their system, and was hoping for his sake that GS would draft him. And while I’m glad he gets to play in his hometown, the system Thibs runs is less than conducive to his development.
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This is unbelievable. I read Thibs played the 2nd unit basically the entire 4th quarter which is why they won. So it takes the probability of the worst loss in years to force Thibs to acknowledge reality that his starting unit isn’t getting it done. And when these bench players finally got a good amount of minutes on the floor together...they delivered. Makes you wonder what practice looks like...although there isn’t a lot of practice during the season.

Do I expect it to change? No. I’ll believe it when I see it. Thibs said this game was going to be a challenge because they had travel issues and didn’t arrive until like 5 am in the morning. Someone posted, “When did the bench plane get in?” Priceless.

I would hope at a minimum Thibs delivers a message to his starting unit there is no more grace period. If they can’t produce, he will be going to the bench more and the bench will be finishing games.

Quite frankly I did not expect Thibs to stick with Obi and the Bench Mob for the entire 4Q, but vs. the Pistons he basically had no choice. To have them not finish what they started-a really good comeback— would have risked losing to the worst squad in pro hoops.
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aka...pathetic. Humiliation is a strong motivator.

But it worked!
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From the New York Post: Knicks need to start giving Obi Toppin more minutes:

https://nypost.com/2021/12/30/knicks...medium=twitter
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Randle is a good player, but he is a good player with a huge contract now. He is not being challenged to play hard, IMO. He would be a lot better giving 25 minutes of hard play than 35 minutes of jogging up and down the court with a "too cool for school" attitude. He is bogging down the team play with his lethargic play, IMO.

I think this is what maddens the NYK fans. They know that Obi moves constantly and passes well/unselfishly. That helps the whole offense. Obi-style makes the game beautiful and tends to spread the wealth and make everyone better.

Obi still has some weaknesses, but I think Thibs needs to cut Randle minutes while challenging him to play hard in those minutes. Get Obi on the floor more and reward the team-first style of play.

FYI - Just saw report that Randle has entered covid safety protocol. That should put him on sideline for 5 days. This is Obi's big chance!

Knicks fans on Twitter are already saying Thibs will start Taj over Obi - because Obi' clearly drowned Thibs puppies.

Thibs is really in a tight spot now. The more he is forced to play Obi the hotter his seat is going to get in New York.

I would love to know the reason behind essentially tanking this season. Do they want a PG from next year's class THAT bad?

You do realize this is the NBA don't you?

Yeah, I get it. Randle has the four year, 70 million dollar deal and doesn't really have to be cooperative if he does not want to. He may not care unless he thinks it may affect a future contract or make his stay in NY unlivable.

But the team being at the mercy of playing a big contract player who is tanking it and doing things his way might be a worse option.

I am not sure Randle is as sinister as what I read in some comments.

Last year in the playoffs, the Hawks figured out Randle. I think the league is catching up with him after last year. Scouting is much more sophisticated these days. His shooting percentage is much, much lower this year, but his other numbers are consistent. That shows the defense emphasis other coaches have placed on stopping Randle. It seems if you stop Randle, you stop the first unit.

Often players place too much on themselves after a big contract. Instead of slacking, they try too hard and try to justify the big contract. And when they try too hard, they often get injured or force the game too much. More often, that is the cause of production drop off.

And he plays a lot of minutes. I believe he plays too many minutes and that is starting to impact his game. The NBA is very physical, and Randle has the most physical defender on him every night.

I find it interesting that the number of people who want to fire the coach of the year from last season. Reminds me of the attacks on Anthony earlier this year. Thibs got the Knicks to the playoffs in quite a while.

Each coach has a style, but players have to make plays. The starters for the Knicks have not jelled for whatever reason. Not a big fan of Thibs, but he has tried a few things. Benching Walker...

Yes, maybe playing Obi would be a nice next step.

The Post believes Obi will get the start, “Knicks fans now get their wish for the next few games — Obi Toppin starting at power forward.”

https://nypost.com/2021/12/30/julius...vid-protocols/
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Isn't this self-contradictory? Scouting is much more sophisticated these days, which is why it took an entire season + part of the post season for opposing teams to figure out that "we should stop their leading scorer, that will help us win"? OK I'm being sarcastic, but still, what did this "sophisticated" scouting department take so long to figure out?

Scouting took about a week to figure this out last year. The Knicks just puckered in the post season. If you ask me, Thibs has the wrong pieces and he's trying to fit a square peg. I admit I have watched less than a full game worth of Knicks basketball last year and also this year, but what I see is that Fornier is shockingly poor at defense. The Knicks are 18th in team defense. Last year they were 4th.

It's one thing to give it to your best player and hope when you know you'll get a stop at the other end. When you know you MUST score, because the other team is likely to score at the other end, it causes a certain pucker factor. Every missed layup is magnified.

When do you think the scouting will catch up with guys like Durant and Curry?

Well this is Obi opportunity!!!

Even if Thibs goes with Taj Gibson (I hope he starts Obi)...but we will see...still, Obi should get 20 mins. I think the fans will go off the deep end if he doesn’t. COY be “danged”.

Great opportunity for Obi and I think he will deliver. But I’m also just as excited to see if he helps make the other starters better when he’s on the floor. This year, I’m coming to appreciate this about Obi. When he was at UD his athleticism was so magnificent it was all you honed in on while watching a game. But looking back, his unique set of skills really did make the other guys on the floor so much better. It will be interesting. Hopefully we get a 3 game run with Randal out.

Randle is a good player. The problem is when he is on the court the ball sticks too much and there is poor ball movement and movement off the ball. Randle is a 1v1 iso player. At times when feeding Randle the ball goes into the abyss and he takes the shot clock down to where there is no time for an alternative. Very predictable.

NBA probable starters for 12/31/2021 games:
https://www.nba.com/players/todays-lineups

Looks who's projected to start at PF for the Knickerbockers vs Thunder.

Sweet. Happy New Year.

Steve Popper twitter:
"Thibodeau confirms Obi will start in place of Randle. Evan Fournier is a game-time decision."

We don't know how many games Obi will be starting but the following is some information on the TV schedule for the next 5 games if you are not fortunate enough to have the NBA League Pass. Obi is starting tonight at Oklahoma City at 8PM but there is no TV. I like to go to espn.com and click on NBA. Then click on scores. Then click on gamecast and you can see what is happening on each change of possession.

Game 2 is Sunday, 1/2 when the Knicks are at Toronto at 3:30PM. No TV there either! That will be a busy day because the Flyers play the Bonnies at 12 noon and the Bengals play the Chiefs at 1PM (which I will DVR).

Game 3 is televised (NBATV channel 1325 on Spectrum) on Tuesday, 1/4 when the Pacers are at New York for a 7:30PM start.

Game 4 is televised on TNT (channel 1203 on Spectrum) on Thursday, 1/6 when the Celtics are at New York for a 7:30 start.

Game 5 is televised (NBATV channel 1325 on Spectrum) on Saturday, 1/8 when the Knicks are at the Celtics at 7:30PM.

So if Obi starts all 5 of the next games we won't be able to see him on television in the first two but we will in the last three!

Kemba Walker may be in attack mode tonight in seeking revenge for the trade debacle OKC screwed up. Obi should be the recipient of some great dimes!
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Obi is better off playing 2nd unit- starters are selfish

Obi had 5 points, 5 boards and an assist in 16 first half minutes:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...90238996443136
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Maybe one game isn’t a big enough sample, but against one of the leagues worst teams Obi showed nothing despite getting a start and significant minutes. Perhaps Thibs knows what he’s doing. Very disappointing.
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In 27 total minutes in his first starting role Obi finished with 5 points, 7 boards and one assist. In the 11 minutes he played in the second half he only attempted one layup and missed it. Either he had a bad game or his teammates did not get him the ball at all! Maybe he will do better when the Knicks play Toronto on Sunday.

It seems that Obi has his best offensive games when he is in the game with Rose, Quickley and Burks. Rose is out with an injury and Quickley and Burks seemed to look for their own shots tonight when they got minutes. Like it was mentioned by longtimefan67 the starters are selfish. If Obi starts Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday (depending how long Julius Randall is out) he is going to have to capitalize every time he gets his hands on the ball on offense. He had a chance to prove himself tonight and apparently played team ball instead of being offensive minded himself. He missed his only three point attempt in the first half and maybe that made him shy away!

You forgot to blame some of it on Trump too.
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He will get 2 more opportunities. It’s up to Obi.

Generally Randle has been able to score a lot paying with these same selfish players so that can’t be an excuse that gives Obi a pass if his remaining starting chances end up with similar results. Also, it’s much easier to put up good numbers when you are playing against the other team’s backups and coaches know that whether fans do or not.

Lots of guys putting up real solid numbers in the mostly selfish NBA. For Obi to become one of them, Obi has to be able to show he can be productive toward a team W playing more minutes against better players not just with the perfect set of circumstances that fit his game.
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Didn't see the game, but Obi only took 5 shots. Granted, he shot poorly in those 5, but still only 5. If Obi is going to score more, especially in a starter role, he's going to have to be more selfish. If he passes the ball every time, he'll likely never touch again on that possession. The Knick, and NBA teams in general, are not prolific passing teams. It's generally one, two passes tops and a shot. Obi works best in transition, he doesn't have a solid post up game and his 3 pt shooting is woeful most of the time.

This GAME simply demonstrates the loss knicks are feeling having Derrick Rose 8 weeks. He is the Sauce and the Straw that stirs
Unfortunately, deuce McBride isn't quite ready to start and Kemba was a very last minute scratch.

Obi will probably always need one of these things to be profitable/successful

1. A run and gun team
2. A quality pass first PG
3. True team ball by all 5 players
4. No Randle or "stud" ahead of him

5. A PNR specialist on his team, where he can get it back after the rub

Perhaps Randle "has been able to score a lot playing with these same selfish players" is because he is selfish too. And maybe the "guys putting up real solid numbers in the mostly selfish NBA" are also selfish. You have to shoot to score. It's tough to shoot when you don't have the ball.

Obviously but they also are able to create their own shots while being selfish, something Obi hasn’t been able to prove he can do regularly which is why Thibs hasn’t been starting him. Randle also has done just fine without Rose having to help him be successful.
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Interesting stat from Todays Knicks loss

Evan Fournier played 26 minutes. 20 points, but 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals and 0 blocks. How is it possible for an NBA player to have all these goose eggs in 26 minutes of action?

Obi played a career high 45 minutes and finished with 19/6/6 in an L.

Highlights: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...46793345552388

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...53765541277699

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...70524172304385

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...75309361463301

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All he does is shoot. He's certainly not wasting any effort on his defense.

So what happened? Did Thibs say "oh you like Toppin so much I'll just play him the whole g*****n game then"?

These are numbers I would expect for Obi. Nice job on offense. Though I heard D may have been suspect. Did not view game myself. Just some clips

i could not watch game, but found these stats from Modern NBA
@Modern_NBA
Home of Modern Skill Rating (MSR) and the latest news on today’s NBA. Founded by NBA Scout and Emmy Award winner @ThomasCDee @snytv

19 Points
15 Contested Shots
11 Screen Assist Points
6 Rebounds
6 Assists
4 Screen Assists
3 deflections
2 Blocks
1 Steal

That’s a good day at the office.

And a partridge in a pear tree.

Thibs said something really stupid after the game:

“It’s like the backup quarterback. Everybody thinks the backup should start until he starts.”

I get it Julius Randle is his boy and he thinks Jules is being slighted, but isn’t Obi his dude as well???
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What a stupid thing to say.
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I don't watch a single second of the NBA but I do enjoy following this thread to see what is happening with Obi and to hear all of your comments. It definitely sounds like the Obi pick was something that Thibs and the front office were not on the same page with and Thibs is going to do everything he can to prove the front office wrong. Which is sad for Obi because it's like he is a pawn in the whole thing. I would say one of the two needs to be gone and from what I'm hearing because Thibs was COY he's not going anywhere so hopefully Obi gets traded to somewhere that respects him for what he brings to the table.

"Except in my case, the backup quarterback is actually playing 10 snaps a game, and doing so quite productively. So it's really not a total mystery what would happen if the backup actually got into the game.

Plus, there's only 1 quarterback, while there are 5 or 6 receivers, and I'm sitting one of the receivers who is very productive when I allow him into the game.

So, it's not the least bit like the backup quarterback. Nevermind."

Randle and Robinson both cleared to play tonight. Be interesting to see how much PT Obi gets. 730 NBA TV

Thibs is back to the status quo on rotations as Obi gets a grand total of 5 first half minutes with zero shot attempts, 1 rebound and 1 assist
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I am a New Yorker and a Knick fan….I hope Obi gets traded.. this guy has no use for him. Now Obi needs to be tougher and stronger..improve his handle but as Long as Thibs and Randle are in NY he won’t get his chance. I waited a year and half….enough…

Obi’s one bucket in the 4Q:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...54650324443137
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Of all of the clips I have seen on this thread the last two years, I think this is the first one where Obi is not on a fast break or in the corner/coming from the corner.

Sometimes I think Thibs is trying to get fired...like last night.

I think Obi must have pi$$ed in Thibs' Corn Flakes.

Thibs is doing everything he possibly can to prove that Obi isn't worth the draft pick they made. As someone above posted the "full" stats of Obi's game, you have to also put this in context; Obi has NEVER played anywhere close to that many minutes in one game and likely Thibs did that expecting Obi would fall flat on his face. Obi could have easily scored another 5-8 points in that game had he been anywhere close to the ball hog that Randle is on a nightly basis. I know that Thibs doesn't like Obi and I'm suspecting the feeling is mutual but Obi needs to continue to get better on his outside shot - which I think he will just based on his work ethic and hope he gets traded to a quality team/opportunity. I think the between the legs dunk on Christmas day infuriated Thibs. Maybe that was the point.

The Knicks are tanking to get a PG.

I don't know what the point of last year was or drafting Obi/keeping Randle if you don't intend to make a run now.

Trade deadline is February 10th.

And Thibs doesn’t want to play Obi because…?
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The theory is that Thibs wasn't happy with the pick and is now "punishing" Obi (or rather, punishing the front office) by not playing and stunting the young star. The problem with the theory is that it implies that Thibs is literally sabotaging his own team.

Sounds crazy until you watch a few games.

I've said this before, but the biggest issue in the big picture for the Knicks, is that Julius Randle has never been anything more than just a few hairs above a replacement level player for his entire NBA career with the exception of last season, when he played more like an all star level player (though not a true superstar). The Knicks played him like a player you can build a roster around. He's not that kind of talent. He's the dude you add as the 3rd "star" with 2 well defined gaurds that can attack with the ball in their hands. He would have been great as the 3rd wheel in Portland 2 seasons ago.


He gets paid this season, and Randle has reverted back to form. Now they have a bunch of mis-fit pieces and it gels about as well as you would have expected had you never knew last season occurred.


Regarding Obi, he's not the talent you build around either, certainly not at this point of his career and likely never, but he could be a very nice piece to the puzzle. Every team can use an energy man. A guy who hustles every opportunity and provides his team with easy transition points. I'm not sure anyone provides their team with easier transition points than Obi does, certainly not anyone with similar size. Obi provides that roster with something no one else in the NBA can match, something that can be useful for far more minutes than its being implored.

Medford - your first 2 paragraphs were not coherent. I have watched every Knick game when OBI became a Knick and I think your facts and opinion are unfounded.

HOWEVER: Your last paragraph is 100% right on and very well said. Go back and revise your post Hah Hah Hah !!! We all understand your frustration with the Knicks team dynamics.