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Old 12-06-2018, 01:46 PM
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Gazoo Gazoo is offline
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
C'mon Sir Chris R...you know better than this! Soccer officials don't call contact based on contact, they call it on 'advantage' and/or safety. Basketball is no different...some contact is a foul...that same contact in a different situation may not be a foul.

Example: I'm doing a varsity boys game last night. Joe does an awesome crossover dribble at the FT line and fakes his defender out of his rolled up shorts! The defender tries to reach for the dribble and missed, hitting Joe in the leg as he drives (unopposed) to the basket for a layup.

Should King Rollo the Ref of Integrity call that contact and stop play knowing neither the coach or player wants it called as they'd rather have the basket? Or is this play - as you put it - "a little bit pregnant" meaning it should be called a foul 100% of the time???

As I've stated a million times, I attend a lot of meetings. We have a few topics that are always discussed (block/charge, traveling...) including the dreaded phrase 'let them play thru it' meaning that if the contact in question doesn't affect the play, let it go.

If the defender above trips the dribbler, it's a foul. If he injures the dribbler, it's a foul. If he forces the dribbler to hop-step and he then loses the dribble or it's stolen, it's a foul. But in many cases, immediately calling the contact a 'foul' is unnecessary (for lack of a better term).

Officials (of any sport) who operate in a vacuum are doing themselves, their partners and the game they love no favors. As a umpire, if the count is 3-0 I have been known to call a pitch that's 3" outside a strike...as a soccer official I have ignored high kicks at midfield if the defenders are backing off...

It's called 'discretion' and I know it's a fine line, but it's a fact of all sports and if you think about it - or ever decide to become an official yourself - I know you'll all agree. I'm not saying you'll all like it...just that you'll agree.

Or quit after the first game...

King Rollo the Semi-Pregnant! OUT!
Rollo, I think I can confidently say those were in no way what Chris was talking about. You chose not to call a foul because, as a judgement call, it was either trivial to the game or the player who was fouled would have been DISadvantaged by your whistle. Play on for 1/2 a second and that decision is clearly over and decisively made: now the kid misses the layup you granted him by NOT blowing the whistle. What Chris is saying is it drives him nuts when the ref decides to retroactively blow the whistle and give the the player who missed the layup a retroactive advantage. You might as well say "I missed a call for you in the first half, so since you missed this layup I'll blow the whistle." The decision is over, you chose not to call it, now it's up to the kid to make the layup. If he missed the layup BECAUSE of the foul, blow the whistle.

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, on Saturday (CYO) I had a kid shoot past his defender on the right wing...the defender reached and bumped the dribbler who had a clear path to the basket...I swallowed my whistle and the kid missed the layup. Yeah, I caught some heat and felt bad, but it's not my fault the kid missed the shot that I basically gave him.

FWIW II, my partner missed a call on Sunday (Metro). Kid pulls down an offensive rebound and fakes up. The defender who was behind him jumped up on the fake and his chest landed on the offensive player's back enough to justify a foul, but the offensive player - unfazed - brushed off the contact and went up for the uncontested layup...and missed! The defense got the rebound and took off down court. The coach was not happy and I understand why...but the kid missed an uncontested layup than I guarantee he wanted the kid to make more than he wanted the foul (on the floor, no FTs) called...which is always the case. The next dead ball my partner was upset with himself for not calling the foul, but he did exactly what we're taught...in certain situations, it's best to let the player play thru the contact!

FWIW III, in rare situations (late in a close game) where I let the kid play thru contact and they miss the shot, I have come in with a late whistle and when confronted as to why I didn't call it immediately I simply apologize and 'admit' that my whistle fell out of my mouth when I tried to blow the play dead...oops...and it took me a second to get it back in my mouth!

What I'd rather say is "Sh*t happens...get over it" but that wouldn't be very regal of me now, would it?
Speaking as a former point guard, it used to drive me nuts when a guy would foul me at half court trying to steal the ball but then I recovered it, yet the ref let it go because it "didn't affect the play." Except that it does, because the defender now knows he turned the dial to 3 and didn't get called, so next he'll go for the steal by turning the dial to 4 with no penalty. Then 5. I keep getting hacked and the defender gets more and more bold. Then he hammers me and the ref, who can't see everything, misses it. Reverse skate.

But if you called a foul a foul from the start then the defender plays defense with his feet instead of his hands.

Bob Huggins would love you as a ref, his entire defense hinges on getting away with gradually fouling more and more all game long. If you foul on every play the refs surely won't call all of them.

Last edited by Gazoo; 12-07-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Gazoo For This Totally Excellent Post:
Larymike (12-06-2018), m21eagle45 (12-06-2018), rollo (12-06-2018), UDGutter2 (12-06-2018)
 
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