The New and Improved On Topic Obi Toppin Thread - Page 2

Swampy Meadows · #**101** 01-07-2022, 08:43 AM

Obi went 0-1 and grabbed 3 boards in 10 minutes in a come from behind W over the Celts.
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Ready Action · #**102** 01-07-2022, 08:49 AM

Julius Randle sick of Knicks fans booing him & gives them thumbs down. This same act didn't work out too well for the Mets players with the New York fans last season.

+ YouTube Video

Swampy Meadows · #**103** 01-08-2022, 07:02 PM

Knicks/Celts rematch is on NBA-TV at 7:30 pm tonight.
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Swampy Meadows · #**104** 01-08-2022, 09:37 PM

Obi had what can best be described as a really sh*tty night. 0-3 in nine minutes with 2 boards and he had a couple of shot attempts swatted. Evan Fournier who torched the Cs the other night was unavailable and it showed as the NYK got trounced.

Boys and girls, I'm afraid our guy's minutes have regressed to last year's level, which is to say he will be utilized as a backup for Jules and nothing more.

podcast411 · #**105** 01-08-2022, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Obi had what can best be described as a really sh*tty night. 0-3 in nine minutes with 2 boards and he had a couple of shot attempts swatted. Evan Fournier who torched the Cs the other night was unavailable and it showed as the NYK got trounced.

Boys and girls, I'm afraid our guy's minutes have regressed to last year's level, which is to say he will be utilized as a backup for Jules and nothing more.

Obi seemed to be lacking his normal go go go energy tonight. I have not seen him that lack luster with energy - well ever. Think maybe Thibs said to him - you are going to get 9 to 10 minutes max a night here on out? Something seems to have Obi looking down out there. Getting pretty depressing watching the last few games. But seems Thibs is determined come hell or high water not to use Obi.

SeasonTicketFan · #**106** 01-08-2022, 09:45 PM

Knicks were pathetic tonight.
Sad to see what is happening to Obi. I agree that he appears discouraged

Obi is a different player when Derrick Rose plays. No one else on the Knicks ever looks for him. And that won’t happen again for a while.

T-Bone 84 · #**107** 01-08-2022, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

The theory is that Thibs wasn't happy with the pick and is now "punishing" Obi (or rather, punishing the front office) by not playing and stunting the young star. The problem with the theory is that it implies that Thibs is literally sabotaging his own team.

Sounds crazy until you watch a few games.

Not a fan of the NBA of today, other than Golden State, because of the way I’ve seen them run their offense. For that reason, I can’t stomach watching Knicks games for 2 hours, just to hope to catch the 10-12 minutes that Thibs consents to play Obi. Not saying that Obi is the next Kevin Durant. Just saying I can’t see him ever reaching his potential in Thibs’ “system”.
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BeckysTXA · #**108** 01-09-2022, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Obi had what can best be described as a really sh*tty night. 0-3 in nine minutes with 2 boards and he had a couple of shot attempts swatted. Evan Fournier who torched the Cs the other night was unavailable and it showed as the NYK got trounced.

Boys and girls, I'm afraid our guy's minutes have regressed to last year's level, which is to say he will be utilized as a backup for Jules and nothing more.

I think this was his first bad game this year. I’m not sure anyone else on the Knicks can say that. I remember 2 other games that were below par but not terrible. I think Rose being out and the fact he gets stonewalled by Thibs at every turn is taking its toll. I don’t know if Obi should be starting, but he deserves more minutes. The last game he started, he played both the 4 and the 5 and had his best game. As much as he loves NY...his best hope right now is to be traded.

T-Bone 84 · #**109** 01-09-2022, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA

I think this was his first bad game this year. I’m not sure anyone else on the Knicks can say that. I remember 2 other games that were below par but not terrible. I think Rose being out and the fact he gets stonewalled by Thibs at every turn is taking its toll. I don’t know if Obi should be starting, but he deserves more minutes. The last game he started, he played both the 4 and the 5 and had his best game. As much as he loves NY...his best hope right now is to be traded.

Obi could be a really good fit in a place like San Antonio (where Pop has proven that he knows how to use the talent provided to him).
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Chris R · #**110** 01-09-2022, 10:28 PM

Every time Obi runs to the coffin corner and stands, a kitten dies. With no Rose or Kemba, even the hint of a baseline backdoor lob is no bueno.

CvilleFlyer · #**111** 01-10-2022, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Every time Obi runs to the coffin corner and stands, a kitten dies. With no Rose or Kemba, even the hint of a baseline backdoor lob is no bueno.

I watched the great movie, "Its a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart last week and I think if Obi would be so fortunate to get traded, instead of a kitten dying when he went to the corner he would be free to run anywhere and the new quote would be, "every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings!"

Fudd · #**112** 01-10-2022, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Every time Obi runs to the coffin corner and stands, a kitten dies. With no Rose or Kemba, even the hint of a baseline backdoor lob is no bueno.

I get that Obi is not such a special player that an NBA team would change their scheme to fit him, but he does not fit the Knicks scheme, IMO. I agree that every time he is sent to the corner to wait on a pass, a kitten is set on fire. He just needs to be in a different scheme to be successful. The more he moves on offense, the better he is. I think he would be a completely different player on a team that has a motion offense and allows him to continuously move. Does that exist in the NBA? I have not watched enough NBA games to know.

Radar · #**113** 01-10-2022, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Every time Obi runs to the coffin corner and stands, a kitten dies. With no Rose or Kemba, even the hint of a baseline backdoor lob is no bueno.

Add Quickley to that list. He has good chemistry with Obi as well.

Thibs needs to go.

SeasonTicketFan · #**114** 01-10-2022, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Fudd

I get that Obi is not such a special player that an NBA team would change their scheme to fit him, but he does not fit the Knicks scheme, IMO. I agree that every time he is sent to the corner to wait on a pass, a kitten is set on fire. He just needs to be in a different scheme to be successful. The more he moves on offense, the better he is. I think he would be a completely different player on a team that has a motion offense and allows him to continuously move. Does that exist in the NBA? I have not watched enough NBA games to know.

Yes, that exists in the NBA. Look at the teams at the top, like Golden State.

Look at the stats for teams that have more assists than the Knicks (which is almost everybody in the league) and you see why Obi does not fit.

Swampy Meadows · #**115** 01-10-2022, 04:40 PM

From The Knicks Wall:: Obi Toppin is more than lobs and breakaway dunks:

https://theknickswall.com/obi-toppin...eakaway-dunks/
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Swampy Meadows · #**116** 01-10-2022, 08:27 PM

Obi got 7 2Q minutes and tallied 2 points and a pair of boards. His one hoop on an oop from Quickley:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...11732565790721

On a night where Randle was 1-7 and had scored 2 points thus far, #1 got three minutes in the 4Q.

Three.

podcast411 · #**117** 01-10-2022, 09:56 PM

So obi played less than 3 minutes in the 4th quarter and gets yanked for no reason at all. Obi was clearly miffed. And it was not like Randle was having a good night. He only had 2 pts at that point. With 3 minutes left in the quarter and time to empty the benches Obi was handed a mop and told to go back in. He had some nice revenge on Thibs however - with two highlight dunks that got the garden to their feet. Obi may not ever win over Thibs - but he clearly has won over the Garden.

T-Bone 84 · #**118** 01-10-2022, 09:59 PM

It’s almost like Thibs is daring the Knicks’ brass to fire him.

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Swampy Meadows · #**119** 01-10-2022, 10:01 PM

Video of said dunks:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...30934466994179

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...33014846021634

Marysville Flyer · #**120** 01-10-2022, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by podcast411

So obi played less than 3 minutes in the 4th quarter and gets yanked for no reason at all. Obi was clearly miffed. And it was not like Randle was having a good night. He only had 2 pts at that point. With 3 minutes left in the quarter and time to empty the benches Obi was handed a mop and told to go back in. He had some nice revenge on Thibs however - with two highlight dunks that got the garden to their feet. Obi may not ever win over Thibs - but he clearly has won over the Garden.

One possible positive, that isn't likely isn't a positive to Obi, is that if the relationship gets strained enough, Obi will likely look to leave NY sooner than he otherwise might have.

I think worse than the 10-12 minutes he gets now would be to get 15-20 a night but play for a horrible organization and coach.

I am betting Obi thought his dream was to play for the Knicks as long as they'd have him. I am betting that has changed. I'd love him to be a solid contributor for a really good 'team'.

hawkoooo · #**121** 01-11-2022, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84

It’s almost like Thibs is daring the Knicks’ brass to fire him.
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Almost?

Canonball · #**122** 01-11-2022, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

From The Knicks Wall:: Obi Toppin is more than lobs and breakaway dunks:

https://theknickswall.com/obi-toppin...eakaway-dunks/
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Nice article on Obi. Why the small potatoes cheap shot at UD? He came to UD and the coaching staff built him into the player he became. Why not credit the program and just say the coaches did a fine job and he'll be a good pro eventually. Not to mention, UD has faired very well against the P5 conferences. One of the best players, if not the best, came out of Davidson. Perhaps just acknowledge that more teams than Duke, Kansas etc play the game and play it very well.

312to937 · #**123** 01-11-2022, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Canonball

Nice article on Obi. Why the small potatoes cheap shot at UD? He came to UD and the coaching staff built him into the player he became. Why not credit the program and just say the coaches did a fine job and he'll be a good pro eventually. Not to mention, UD has faired very well against the P5 conferences. One of the best players, if not the best, came out of Davidson. Perhaps just acknowledge that more teams than Duke, Kansas etc play the game and play it very well.

I guess he could have said “mid major” instead of “small” to describe the size our potato.
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rollo · #**124** 01-12-2022, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA

Trade deadline is February 10th.

Julius Randall has a trade restriction that expires Feb 3rd. Will that 'thumbs down' reaction to the crowd booing him last week force a move...probably not.

Swampy Meadows · #**125** 01-12-2022, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by rollo

Julius Randall has a trade restriction that expires Feb 3rd. Will that 'thumbs down' reaction to the crowd booing him last week force a move...probably not.

Yeah, I wouldn't bet on that. The NYK weakness is at PG with Jalen Rose injured, IQ more interested in launching threes and Kemba Walker being a defensive liability.

Swampy Meadows · #**126** 01-12-2022, 12:15 PM

Trade rumor from Heavy.com (where UD grad Steve Bulpett will soon be covering the NBA) involving Obi coming to the Detroit Pistons in a package for Jerami Grant:

https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-kn...rade-proposal/

Swampy Meadows · #**127** 01-12-2022, 08:30 PM

Obi gets 5 minutes and is a member of Club Trillion--zeroes all the way across the box score.

The game is on ESPN is you want to tune in for more of the same at the start of the 4Q.

Obi got to watch RJ Barrett throw one down: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...53905946939394

Then missed a dunk of his own. Then he sat down after 4 minutes...in a NYK blowout. He came back in with a minute and change remaining and finally did something of consequence:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...60061264179201

T-Bone 84 · #**128** 01-12-2022, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

Almost?

Well, I don’t watch any of the games, so I didn’t want to make too conclusive of an observation.
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BeckysTXA · #**129** 01-13-2022, 07:11 AM

Just under 30 days to the Feb 10th trade deadline. I watched a little of the Knicks v Mavs game last night. Obi did not appear to be his normal high-energy self. He seems deflated. Works is rear end off and was playing very well a couple weeks ago. Really contributing from the bench. It doesn’t appear to matter and maybe a trade is exactly what would be best for him. He will hate leaving NY, but his skill sets and style of play just does not appear to be something Thibs wants to use and work into the offense. A lot of standing in the corner last night. Trades are part of the business. Hopefully a better opportunity will come out of this sooner rather than later.

Marysville Flyer · #**130** 01-13-2022, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA

Just under 30 days to the Feb 10th trade deadline. I watched a little of the Knicks v Mavs game last night. Obi did not appear to be his normal high-energy self. He seems deflated. Works is rear end off and was playing very well a couple weeks ago. Really contributing from the bench. It doesn’t appear to matter and maybe a trade is exactly what would be best for him. He will hate leaving NY, but his skill sets and style of play just does not appear to be something Thibs wants to use and work into the offense. A lot of standing in the corner last night. Trades are part of the business. Hopefully a better opportunity will come out of this sooner rather than later.

In the first half, I saw him fight to be wide open for a pass or oop and not even a look. He then proceeded to go into the corner and stood there with his hands on his hips, looking deflated or disgusted. He did the same in the second half but it was a bit after he missed his dunk.

I agree, he looks spent trying to earn his time.

San Diego Flyer · #**131** 01-13-2022, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Obi gets 5 minutes and is a member of Club Trillion--zeroes all the way across the box score.

I can't help but believe that Obi knows something, and it is more fact than rumor.

Medford · #**132** 01-13-2022, 09:47 AM

Swampy, to be part of club trillion, you can't have played more than 1 min. So your box score looks like a 1 followed by all zeros.

Flyer 86 · #**133** 01-13-2022, 10:09 AM

Trade deadline approaching in under 30 days. Obi name will be attached, realistically or not, to many, many trade possibilities.

If knicks do not move Randle (or to lesser degree Robinson), it's very likely in Obi's interest to get moved out of the Knicks org.

Playing time has gotten worse since Randle returned . If Obi had gotten drafted last year by Cleveland, Chicago, Golden St or couple of others he , IMHO, would be doing better, playing more. Cleveland really would have been a Home run!

SeasonTicketFan · #**134** 01-13-2022, 10:35 AM

I watched game last night. Knicks played well. Barrett is on a role.
Knicks were also lucky as Mavs clanked a ton of open 3-point shots.

I feel really bad for Obi. He plays two positions, end of the bench and decoy in the corner.

I don't see Knicks trading Randle. He is Thibs' guy. Knicks do need another Rose type player at guard. I am skeptical of Cleveland as a destination. Their front line is very tall and suddenly very good. They needed a guard and just picked up Rondo.

NBA is not as fun to watch as college and the Knicks are especially difficult to watch.

chicago92 · #**135** 01-13-2022, 10:59 AM

The reality with the Knicks is when healthy at the 4 & 5 spots there aren't minutes for Obi, which is painful for us Flyer Faithful. They have Randle, Gibson, Robinson, Noel, and Sims all playing the same position(s). Plus the Knicks are a shoot first - pass second offense which doesn't bode well for Obi. I am looking forward to seeing where he ends up post-trade deadline and just hope it's on a team that can use his skill set.

KC Flyer · #**136** 01-13-2022, 11:56 AM

Knicks just traded for Cam Reddish. This will not help in PT for Obi.

longtimefan67 · #**137** 01-13-2022, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by KC Flyer

Knicks just traded for Cam Reddish. This will not help in PT for Obi.

This is a really bad sign for Obi; i see him relegated to third string- i was hoping the Knicks might trade him

Swampy Meadows · #**138** 01-13-2022, 01:09 PM

I don’t think this will change things much. Both Reddish and Knox have been busts. Kevin Knox was stapled to the NYK bench. Reddish is more of a 3 and Obi a 4/5 so they shouldn’t complete for minutes.
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Flyer 86 · #**139** 01-13-2022, 02:54 PM

All depends on more trades to come. I highly doubt the Knicks and Hawks are done!

AZFlyer85 · #**140** 01-13-2022, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

I don’t think this will change things much. Both Reddish and Knox have been busts. Kevin Knox was stapled to the NYK bench. Reddish is more of a 3 and Obi a 4/5 so they shouldn’t complete for minutes.
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The Knicks also picked up Solomon Hill, who plays inside. Just do Obi and his fans a favor and trade him.

podcast411 · #**141** 01-13-2022, 03:25 PM

Maybe Obi was told he will be traded. And Obi does not want to go - so he turned off the motor the last few games in hopes it will kill any trade. Just speculating.

Swampy Meadows · #**142** 01-13-2022, 03:40 PM

Solomon Hill averaged .6 PPG in 13 games for the Hawks and shot 15%. He’s not playing over Obi.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../hillso01.html

Especially since Hill is injured and out for the season.

The Ringer can’t figure out who fleeced who in this deal:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/1...awks-trade-nba

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AZFlyer85 · #**143** 01-14-2022, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Solomon Hill averaged .6 PPG in 13 games for the Hawks and shot 15%. He’s not playing over Obi.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../hillso01.html

Especially since Hill is injured and out for the season.

The Ringer can’t figure out who fleeced who in this deal:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/1...awks-trade-nba

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Thanks for the additional info - nonetheless, Obi and his fans are still being cheated.

Canonball · #**144** 01-14-2022, 11:23 AM

The best don't shy away from competing, and Obi will just continue to grind. Can't be worried about whatever trades are happening. Parts of his game need work, but when his skill set is utilized as is, he's demonstrated he can be a solid contributor. Perhaps with some polish more than just contributing. Just don't think the style played by the Knicks fits him.

All of that said, the NBA bores me. Used to love those old blood feud rivalries. Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls etc. Had to be tough back in the day.

Swampy Meadows · #**145** 01-15-2022, 10:30 PM

Sorry I'm late posting anything about tonight's game but I didn't watch a second of it. Obi played 9 minutes and had zero shot attempts and, needless to say, zero highlights.

SeasonTicketFan · #**146** 01-15-2022, 10:40 PM

Sad to see a coach and team ruin a player with potential.

Obi has to beg for a trade at this point.

T-Bone 84 · #**147** 01-15-2022, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

Sad to see a coach and team ruin a player with potential.

Obi has to beg for a trade at this point.

Yes, Obi is in a death spiral with the current iteration of the Knicks. I realize NYC is his hometown, but as long as Thibs is the coach, his development will go exactly nowhere. He needs a fresh start, somewhere else.
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San Diego Flyer · #**148** 01-16-2022, 03:34 PM

It just seems like every Obi dunk just grates on Thibs. Just digs a deeper divide because each dunk brings down the MSG roof. And then there were none. Sad.

longtimefan67 · #**149** 01-17-2022, 06:58 AM

Knicks vs Hornets on MLK day @1pm-NBA TV

Medford · #**150** 01-17-2022, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by longtimefan67

Knicks vs Hornets on MLK day @1pm-NBA TV

Isn't that the same time UD plays WSU today?

cj · #**151** 01-17-2022, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Medford

Isn't that the same time UD plays WSU today?

I like it.
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Marysville Flyer · #**152** 01-17-2022, 01:46 PM

Obi energized - has 5 quick pts and I believe 3 RBs in first 2 minutes
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ClaytonFlyerFan · #**153** 01-17-2022, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer

Obi energized - has 5 quick pts and I believe 3 RBs in first 2 minutes
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7 point in three minutes now. Thibs must be sick,they are letting Obi touch the ball

Swampy Meadows · #**154** 01-17-2022, 01:50 PM

Obi making things happen right away. Good D and then drained a three:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...48067708850181

Missed his next trey but followed it up with this drive:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...48557809074178

Obi oop from IQ: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...49378135146497

He did miss a pair of FTs before Thibs did the inevitable. In 5 minutes #1 had 7 points and 2 boards.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #**155** 01-17-2022, 01:53 PM

A very productive 4 minutes and 41 seconds and sent to the bench.

Screw you Thibs. Quickly remembering why I do not watch this pro **** they call basketball.

longtimefan67 · #**156** 01-17-2022, 02:08 PM

My almost 94 year old mom says “Why is Obi out? He hardly played”….i say - “the coach is a moron and doesn’t like him”. She just shakes her head. You can’t make this **** up…

frisco flyer · #**157** 01-17-2022, 02:45 PM

“We want Obi” is the chant in the Garden near the end of the 3rd quarter and the Knicks down 20.

F*ck Thibs. We’ll see who leaves NY first:Thibs or Obi. Co-existence is not a viable option.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #**158** 01-17-2022, 02:49 PM

If I hear one more person say Obi's defense is why he does not play I am going to puke. Have you watched Randles lack of effort on D? His who gives a crap attitude with no hustle?

Furio · #**159** 01-17-2022, 02:50 PM

Too productive in 5 minutes.Thibs got him the heck out there.

Swampy Meadows · #**160** 01-17-2022, 03:02 PM

Obi scores again as Thibs leaves him in to clean up in garbage time:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...CzwZ3foZUpAAAA

Another oop from IQ: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...Cynezlo5UpAAAA

11 markers in 16 minutes and a +12--all of the starters were in negative double figures.

frisco flyer · #**161** 01-17-2022, 03:17 PM

Once again, Obi leads the team with +12. Starters all in a double digit hole.
No matter, he’ll just get his 7-9 minutes next game.

SeasonTicketFan · #**162** 01-17-2022, 03:19 PM

It took 30 seconds for Obi to learn the half-court offense. Go to the corner and stand there.

I've never seen a player's offensive skills utilized so poorly. If Thibs was coaching the Tampa Bay Bucs, he would make Brady hand off the ball every time.

Frazier commented on the bad half-court offense against the zone. Ball circles around the perimeter. Obi could make a big difference on an inside outside zone offense.

BeckysTXA · #**163** 01-17-2022, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

If I hear one more person say Obi's defense is why he does not play I am going to puke. Have you watched Randles lack of effort on D? His who gives a crap attitude with no hustle?

Same with shooting the 3. The Knicks are terrible from 3....all of them. They need to spend the next two weeks only practicing 3 pt shots. I don’t know how many air balls I saw today.

Swampy Meadows · #**164** 01-18-2022, 11:03 AM

Obi and the NYK on NBA-TV again tonight.

Meanwhile, here is Obi's career in a nutshell: https://twitter.com/APachecoNBA/stat...44338432618496

SeasonTicketFan · #**165** 01-18-2022, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Obi and the NYK on NBA-TV again tonight.

Meanwhile, here is Obi's career in a nutshell: https://twitter.com/APachecoNBA/stat...44338432618496

The Knicks are a shoot first, pass when in desperation team.

Duquesne talked about that concept in his post-game on Saturday. It is not a winning formula. You can get away with it once in a while, but not consistently.

Marysville Flyer · #**166** 01-18-2022, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

Obi and the NYK on NBA-TV again tonight.

Meanwhile, here is Obi's career in a nutshell: https://twitter.com/APachecoNBA/stat...44338432618496

Watched the 4th quarter as I figured he’d play most/all of it and knew this was the lowlight in the tweet without opening it. I was a huge ball hog when I was young. My motto was always ‘I have to have the ball to be effective’. Even with that I’d still be the assist leader if I played for the Knicks. The game is unwatchable the way they play it.
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Swampy Meadows · #**167** 01-18-2022, 09:10 PM

Obi's highlight from his 7 1H minutes:

https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/1483610468488921088

ClaytonFlyerFan · #**168** 01-20-2022, 09:24 PM

So Obi did nothing in his 5 first half minutes tonight, but his nothing is better than whatever it is Randle is doing.

Through 3 quarters Thibs favorite son has played 31 minutes, 1 for 10 from the field, 2 for 4 from the line for a total of 4 points. His plus minus is -26 as the Knicks trail 81-57.

Great job coach, just keep doing what does not work game after game. Dumb Ass.

Swampy Meadows · #**169** 01-20-2022, 09:55 PM

NYK trailed at one time by 23. Obi and the Bench Mob proceeded cut it to 10. Obi shot the ball once in 19 minutes--a semi-desperation three that missed but was +15.

Gazoo · #**170** 01-21-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

So Obi did nothing in his 5 first half minutes tonight, but his nothing is better than whatever it is Randle is doing.

Through 3 quarters Thibs favorite son has played 31 minutes, 1 for 10 from the field, 2 for 4 from the line for a total of 4 points. His plus minus is -26 as the Knicks trail 81-57.

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows

NYK trailed at one time by 23. Obi and the Bench Mob proceeded cut it to 10. Obi shot the ball once in 19 minutes--a semi-desperation three that missed but was +15.

IDK, the +/- stat doesn't seem very descriptive to me.

Justin · #**171** 01-23-2022, 02:19 PM

Obi with the double pump dunk, today!

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/33131937

CvilleFlyer · #**172** 01-24-2022, 12:20 AM

I am surprised that no one commented on the Knicks game from earlier today. The Knicks led the whole game from start to finish and defeated the Clippers 110-102. Obi played a total of 8 minutes with 2 points on a dunk 1 rebound and 1 block. Julius Randle played 40 minutes!

It seems like Tom Thibodeau is giving Obi less minutes lately. Maybe there is a trade in the works. I know there was speculation that he might be included in a trade to the Sacramento Kings as the Knicks are trying to acquire De' Aaron Fox. Burks and Kemba Walker were also to be part of the trade. I guess we will know of any trades in one month or so as the trade deadline nears.

Swampy Meadows · #**173** 01-24-2022, 08:24 PM

Obi had a strong 1H--8 points on 3-3 shooting (2-2 on 3 pointers) plus 2-2 FTs.

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/...Cz5efpw54pAAAA

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...Cztc-sxJ4pAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...Cy5afow54pAAAA

2H Obi scooped and scored: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...C55da4zJ4pAAAA

And he hit a three to pull the NYK to within 4:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...C-obG8zZ4pAAAA

Then you'll never guess what happened? The caption says it all: Don’t worry, he came out right after this

Ready Action · #**174** 01-24-2022, 09:06 PM

Nice offensive game for Toppin. Seems like the Bally Sports Ohio (Cavs) announces love ‘em.
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Medford · #**175** 01-25-2022, 10:03 AM

Outside of Knicks games, I pay attention to any NBA box scores on any sort of regular basis. I'd say I look at just about every Knicks Box score to see how Obi did, but outside of that I might look at 2-3 box scores a month of a non Knicks NBA game.

So with that caveat, I can't imagine there are any other teams that routinely show +/- stats like the Knicks do so often. All 5 starters in heavy - negative territory, and all the bench, or a significant portion of the bench like last night strongly to the + side.

And I understand that sometimes the starters might get whipped for some reason, so when the bench players come in the other team is just playing out the string, but that is not always the case and in several cases the bench mob has stormed back to bring the Knicks back into the game, but only once do I recall Thibs just rolling with the bench.

For a team toiling in mediocrity, you would think they would want to try "something" to ignite a spark. Even if it doesn't involve Obi (which obviously all us UD fans would prefer) you would think Thibs would eventually alter his rotations and stop rolling out the uninspiring starting core for 40+ min a night while wallowing away in .500 purgatory.

rollo · #**176** 01-25-2022, 10:30 AM

Barrett shoots 9/16 with 24 pts, 5 rbs, 4 assists and 1 TO...and has a -11 +/-.

Quickly shoots 1/10, 3 pts, 1 rb, 6 assists and 1 TO...and has a +12 +/-.

What does this mean? Obviously Barrett played (a) better and (b) against better competition. Which is why this +/- crap needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

In defense of Obi, the Knicks offense moves alot more when he's on the court. And he's a handful on offense...but man, they are hard to watch when Obi's not on the court.

Medford · #**177** 01-25-2022, 12:32 PM

Rollo,

In any singular game or stretch of games, sure I'd agree 100% with you that only so much can be read into +/- stats. I'm sure I could take the floor with Jordan, Pippen, Magic and Shaq as the PF vs little sisters of the poor and amount an incredible +/- stat.

However, over the course of a season I think it tells a telling picture. To be honest, I don't even know what anyone's +/- on the Knicks has been over the course of the full season. What I have noticed is many games where the starters are all well into the negative side of the +/- column while the entire bench or near entire bench is well into the + side. I'm not talking about 1 or 2 games, but something which seemingly happens with regularity.

If I'm coach Thibs, who has forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know, I'd be asking myself why that is the case, and what can I do in relation to the why that might help improve an rather unimpressive 500ish record on the season, not to mention last season's flame out after the 1st game of the playoffs.

Thibs has often been criticized, back to his day with the Bulls that he rode his starters too long and too hard which lead to the great regular season records but post season disappointment. As a Bulls fan, I do remember those comments well. I don't know if it was the same story when he was in Minny, but that was definitely an issue last year in the playoffs when Randle fresh off a career yeah looked horrible in the postseason.

Also I noticed you made no comment about Barrett or Quickly's defense in said game. There are 2 sides to the game that affect the +/- stat, but I'm sure you already knew that despite your disdain for said stat

(for the record I didn't watch the game, nor do I watch much Knicks basketball so I can't comment on either players defense either last night or in general)

Medford · #**178** 01-25-2022, 12:37 PM

Since I now become interested, here is the a link that shows the +/- stats for the season for all Knicks

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kni...or-all-players

If you don't want to click, Quickley, Toppin and Rose lead the way for the Knicks.

Randle, Walker and Barrett are the worst.

Rose is hurt and may or may not play again, but it tells me the roles for Quickley and Toppin need to increase some while the roles for Randle, Walker and Barrett need to decrease some. Would 5 less min a night make Randle more effective, more consistent? maybe. But if I'm stuck in .500 purgatory I'm looking for something different. Thibs appears to be stubborn to a fault with his rotations.

Sea Bass · #**179** 01-25-2022, 01:13 PM

Thibs is going to ride his starters unless someone gets hurt.

SeasonTicketFan · #**180** 01-25-2022, 01:47 PM

Statistics give you a view of the situation but not the complete picture. Then, root cause analysis is needed for a more detailed analysis. That is why sabermetrics in sports came into place.

I believe the +- stats are a red flag an indicator of an issue. The Knicks are below .500 and must do something to make the playoffs. The starters falling behind to start so many games is a real problem.

In a non-statistical observation, the offense is predominately 1 on 1 with the starters. The team looks for Randle to be a play maker, but he is not a point guard. The team stands around a lot. The same when Barrett has the ball. The guards are shoot first, pass when in trouble players. That type of offense is easier to defend than a share the ball and movement offense.

When Rose was in the games, he opened the offense and motion much more. He is a playmaker. The team took off when he joined them last year.

Without Rose, Thibs has turned Toppin into Luke Fabrizius on offense. Stand in the corner and wait for the ball. How about using the strength of Obi's offensive skill which is pick and roll?

BeckysTXA · #**181** 01-25-2022, 07:05 PM

The last couple games, I think o I’m 3-point shooting has been better. One thing that seems to have helped is less corner 3s and more in the arc of the 3-point line. He did make a corner but I haven’t seen any top of the key attempts.

Really good to see the long ball improvement. If he can get this down, teams will line up for him.

Marysville Flyer · #**182** 01-25-2022, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

Barrett shoots 9/16 with 24 pts, 5 rbs, 4 assists and 1 TO...and has a -11 +/-.

Quickly shoots 1/10, 3 pts, 1 rb, 6 assists and 1 TO...and has a +12 +/-.

What does this mean? Obviously Barrett played (a) better and (b) against better competition. Which is why this +/- crap needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

In defense of Obi, the Knicks offense moves alot more when he's on the court. And he's a handful on offense...but man, they are hard to watch when Obi's not on the court.

If it’s a season long stat, the only thing it can be said to show with any statistical certainty is that the Knicks have one of the best second teams in the NBA. Any other conclusions based on +/- are flawed and less logical.
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TXFlyerFan · #**183** 01-26-2022, 12:18 AM

Knicks have a multitude of issues. Walker doesn't work with the style of OThibs wants to run and D Rose is out with an injury. Then, Thibs wants the offense to revolve around Randle. Problem is, that stifles Barrett too much. When Fournier is on, then Randle can't get going because Randle needs a lot of shots. Robinson has been playing better of late, but overall, he's generally not going to be a big scorer.

Without D Rose, Quickley plays the PG when he's in, but he's more of a SG and much less of a distributor/penetrator, more of just a 3pt guy. The way the Knicks lineups exist, without D Rose, few of the players actually look to pass/distribute, and aren't really pnr types. None of this is to Obi's advantage. So instead, they have him camped in the corner and his points generally come on breakouts for dunks/layups. If Obi's 3pt % was better, it would be to his benefit and he does need to improve. But this style of O is not conducive to his play.

The other thing that's irritating is that Thibs inserts Randle back on a pre-defined schedule generally, or if Obi makes a mistake. Other players make mistakes all game long, but Obi has one or two bad plays in a row, it's nearly guaranteed he's coming out of the game.

Gazoo · #**184** 01-26-2022, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Medford

Also I noticed you made no comment about Barrett or Quickly's defense in said game. There are 2 sides to the game that affect the +/- stat, but I'm sure you already knew that despite your disdain for said stat (for the record I didn't watch the game, nor do I watch much Knicks basketball so I can't comment on either players defense either last night or in general)

I used to play with a guy who had Steph Curry like range, before it was cool. He would jack up shots from anywhere--but the darn thing was, he'd make them. I would often guard him and I mean to tell you I would be inside his soul I was so tight on him and he'd shoot it anyway, and make it on the regular. You would want to call it a bad shot--if he didn't make so many of them.

But, he couldn't play defense. So if he missed a couple in a row but at the other end I could pretty easily get very high % shots for me or my team, his team would lose.

He'd finish with 14 of his team's 19 points in a game to 21, and assist on the other 5 buckets. I'll bet his stats looked great. But lose he would, because while he got 3 (actually 2) per shot, I would get 2 (actually 1) nearly every time down the court.

Radar · #**185** 01-26-2022, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan

Knicks have a multitude of issues. Walker doesn't work with the style of OThibs wants to run and D Rose is out with an injury. Then, Thibs wants the offense to revolve around Randle. Problem is, that stifles Barrett too much. When Fournier is on, then Randle can't get going because Randle needs a lot of shots. Robinson has been playing better of late, but overall, he's generally not going to be a big scorer.

Without D Rose, Quickley plays the PG when he's in, but he's more of a SG and much less of a distributor/penetrator, more of just a 3pt guy. The way the Knicks lineups exist, without D Rose, few of the players actually look to pass/distribute, and aren't really pnr types. None of this is to Obi's advantage. So instead, they have him camped in the corner and his points generally come on breakouts for dunks/layups. If Obi's 3pt % was better, it would be to his benefit and he does need to improve. But this style of O is not conducive to his play.

The other thing that's irritating is that Thibs inserts Randle back on a pre-defined schedule generally, or if Obi makes a mistake. Other players make mistakes all game long, but Obi has one or two bad plays in a row, it's nearly guaranteed he's coming out of the game.

Add this to the multitude of issues: Nerlens Noel is $27M worth of terrible. Just watch him for one rotation of one game and you will see the absolute worst. Offense, defense, special teams, anything.

Smitty10 · #**186** 01-26-2022, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer

If it’s a season long stat, the only thing it can be said to show with any statistical certainty is that the Knicks have one of the best second teams in the NBA. Any other conclusions based on +/- are flawed and less logical.
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Yep. Unless a coach spends most game keeping 3 to 4 starters in the game at all times(most times?) while only using backups one or two at a time, it really tells nothing. You have to look at them situationally to get anything out of them.

Were backup players playing against backups? Were they playing against starters? Were they playing with starters or with mostly backups?

+- only means that a player is part of winning or losing minutes on average, but doesn't tell you if they're playing against the opponents A or B team when in the lineup.

hawkoooo · #**187** 01-26-2022, 03:59 PM

You don't need +/- stats to see that the Knicks' second team is better than the first team. Just watch a game.

Marysville Flyer · #**188** 01-26-2022, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

You don't need +/- stats to see that the Knicks' second team is better than the first team. Just watch a game.

Against weaker completion yes. Better against the starters is highly doubtful. Case in point a few weeks ago against I believe Charlotte, the Hornets had lost the night before so they had their starters in at the beginning of 4th which forced Thib to put his starters in much sooner as the Hornet lead was growing quickly.

The backup QB looks real good in a 20 point blowout playing against the other team’s backups. No difference here

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T-Bone 84 · #**189** 01-26-2022, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer

Against weaker completion yes. Better against the starters is highly doubtful…
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I never watch the games, because I have great memories of the Celtics and Lakers of the ‘80s, the Bulls of the ‘90s, and the Spurs of the “aughts”. I want to see basketball as it was meant to be played. But an easy way to solve this debate would be to have the Knicks’ 1st string play the Knicks’ 2nd string in a 32-minute, full-court game, with 8-minute quarters. No subs. No coaching. 1 TO at the 4-minute mark of each quarter. Best team wins. It’ll never happen, and we’d never see the result even if it did. But it does make me wonder…🤔
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Swampy Meadows · #**190** 01-26-2022, 08:33 PM

Obi with two dunks and a three:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...CyyZP8kaEpAAAA

https://mobile.twitter.com/nyknicks/...C5tb2ykqEpAAAA

https://mobile.twitter.com/KnicksMSG...10173413945348
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CvilleFlyer · #**191** 01-26-2022, 09:15 PM

Obi came in with a lot of energy. As usual he started the second quarter and in 7 minutes scored 7 points on two dunks and one three pointer. Julius Randle, in 18 minutes, scored 4 points on 2 for 6 shooting. Miami Heat, on a 9-0 run to begin the third quarter lead 70-48! Yikes!

We shall see how many minutes Obi gets in the fourth quarter as Randle usually rests at the beginning of the quarter.

CvilleFlyer · #**192** 01-26-2022, 09:48 PM

If you have a subscription to ESPN+ you need to watch Obi tonight! He has 13 points in 13 minutes and the 4th quarter just started. Thibs put Obi in for Barrett in the last 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter! Maybe Thibs had an epiphany! Obi just made another 3! He has 16 pts. and counting!

ClaytonFlyerFan · #**193** 01-26-2022, 09:58 PM

Best part of the game, first I have watched much of for awhile, was Jeff Van Gundy announcing. Before the game even started he threw a few jabs at Thibs and his crappy coaching this year. It has continued throughout the game with him singing the praises of Obi and the rest of the 2nd team while tossing multiple jabs at the Knicks starters.

Oh yea, Randle was a minus 34 tonight. On the plus side, I actually saw him play defense on two possessions in a row and half ass jog down the floor, which might be a first.

Swampy Meadows · #**194** 01-26-2022, 10:01 PM

Obi goes for 16 points with some nice hoops and a three in a blowout loss:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...C-mZ-Ym6EpAAAA

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...C5vd-6m6EpAAAA

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...CzlbSbnKEpAAAA
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podcast411 · #**195** 01-26-2022, 10:19 PM

For the first time - Obi lead the Knicks in Scoring.

He had 18 pts. He was +20 for the game.

Randel had 11 pts and was -34 for the game.

Not that the +/- means anything - wink wink

rollo · #**196** 01-27-2022, 07:22 AM

If you watched the game like the King, you’d have to wonder why Obi wasn’t playing more when the game was in doubt. In the 2nd qtr he played against the Miami 2nd team…I’m the 4th qtr - Knicks down 25ish - he played against their 3rd team.

He needs some 1st team minutes…both with the offense and against the competition. He’s certainly shown abilities and promise against his equals (non-starters). Or at least a mix of minutes.

On a similar note, Luke Kennard (Franklin HS) is quietly having a great year (mostly) from the Clippers bench…but their coach has no problem mixing in Kennard with the starters. He has the role that Obi should have with the Knicks.

King Rollo the +…OUT!
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Ready Action · #**197** 01-27-2022, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

Best part of the game, first I have watched much of for awhile, was Jeff Van Gundy announcing. Before the game even started he threw a few jabs at Thibs and his crappy coaching this year. It has continued throughout the game with him singing the praises of Obi and the rest of the 2nd team while tossing multiple jabs at the Knicks starters.

Oh yea, Randle was a minus 34 tonight. On the plus side, I actually saw him play defense on two possessions in a row and half ass jog down the floor, which might be a first.

"ESPN’s Jeff Van Gundy: Knicks need to tear up starting unit"

https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/jeff-v...starting-unit/

Gazoo · #**198** 01-27-2022, 08:50 AM

From the ~11 minutes of game time I've watched this year (so clearly an expert opinion) I still think their problem is Fornier. I mean, Randall is a problem but Fornier makes the whole thing fall apart. He's so bad on defense that it's like every play is a 5 on 4 break. And if Randall is saving energy on D then it's more like a 5 on 3.

It seems like Thibs read an article in SI that teams are shooting more 3's so he said "I'm told I need to play a 3 point shooter no matter how bad the rest of his game is". There's no explanation for playing Fornier. He does nothing except shoot 3's and he's not even exceptionally good at that, at 38.9% he's #45 in the league. His A/TO ratio is nearly 1, and he can't guard a cactus.

rollo · #**199** 01-27-2022, 09:08 AM

Fornier blows away the idea that Coach T is a defense 1st coach. Which makes the Obi playing time thing crazier.
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Medford · #**200** 01-27-2022, 09:15 AM

The main difference, and Van Gundy pointed this out in the 4th quarter, is the 2nd unit moves the ball around on offense. Its not all 1 on 1 and forced shots, there was a lot of pick and rolls, pick and pops, 2-3 passes leading to a good shot (Cam Reddish was the main exception on the 2nd unit as he forced the issue several times and took some terrible shots when his athleticism couldn't get him a clean look). And shocker of all shockers, Van Gundy, a relatively successful NBA head coach, even brought up the +/- numbers for the starters vs the bench; he must not follow our King