The “Third year’s the Charm” Obi Toppin thread

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I hate being devil's advocate when it comes to Obi because I really do love everything about the guy, but does anybody remember when Chris Wright got called up for the last 10 games of the season and averaged like 27 points, (that number is not exact)?

Chris Wright scored double digits twice in his career...both in April. The memory you have is of the last game in 2011 when he started and scored 25 pts and was the only game he ever started.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/202...erMode=PerGame

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[TXFlyerFan]

In the last 12 games, Obi played against playoff teams 4 times, scoring in double-figures in all 4. He scored in double figures 28 times during the season. Sure, a lot of his minutes probably against backups, but in his start on 1/2 against Toronto, he played 43 minutes and scored 19.

He's shown that he's capable of earning minutes. And when played correctly, he can score in a variety of ways, though still mostly dunks and 3s. He doesn't have a strong post-up game, but then, they never post him up, so who knows exactly what he would be capable of if given sufficient minutes.

This year, he's only scored double-digits 9 times. He was receiving a lot more minutes pre-injury, and his shooting percentage was higher. Since returning from the injury, his minutes have been reduced and his overall effectiveness has also been reduced. He's getting fewer opportunities to touch the ball when he's in the game, frequently paired with one of either Barrett or Brunson, both of whom are ball hogs and stall the offense. And now sharing the court with Hart as well, Obi's touches on offense are nearly non-existent.

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi scores 8 points in 6 1H minutes:

https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/...27415532195840

https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/...27937827790849

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...30079678550016

In the 2H #1 missed a trey then made one.

He leaves with 11 markers in as many minutes (4-6 FG, 3-5 3FG)

[Flyer68]

Obi is not defending slam dunk championship from last year. But another NY Knick is participating - Jeffrey Sims.

Could the reasoning be that he still suffers residuals from injury and coaches did not want to risk aggravating them? OK, I can live with that.

Or could the reasoning be that, when he wins two years in row, the coach and organization would look very bad for not playing this exciting player?

[Medford]

The Knicks won easily last night, had a big lead and seemingly cruised all the way to the end. Thibs, being Thibs plays Randall 34 minutes despite the easy big lead. He should have been held under 30 in an effort to keep him fresher down the stretch. Thibs has always had the knock that he overplays his starters and leaves them worn down come playoff time.

[flybye]

That’s inaccurate... 2 years ago they made the playoffs and finished 16 and 4 in there last 20 and last year went 12 and 8... they just need better players and with Brunson and Hart they are getting there . Up to OBI to earn more min.
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[Medford]

Do you recall how badly the flamed out in the playoffs after their first game 2 seasons ago? It was similar to the walls his teams would hit while he was coaching in Chicago.


Last year they were out of the playoffs and playing dudes like Obi 30+ min a night. I doubt any Knicks fan gives a rip what their record is the last 20 games of this season, they want to know how they will play in the playoffs.

[flybye]

Yeah need better players but saying there burnt out is not accurate. Randle was a one man gang 2 years ago simply were over matched . Take a look at Randle ... Brunson ... Barrett ... Robinson’.. Quickley.. Grimes all better players under Thibs and all have improved . Up to OBi...
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[Flyer 86]

Very much doubt he'd go to Brooklyn. I like Dinwiddie but he's a shot freator..creator... for himself. He needs point guards who pass, who PNR, who create.

He'd be great with:
DONCIC in Dallas
Chris Paul in Phoenix
Possibly Halliburton or Dejonte Murray (INDY OR Atlanta)
Kings with Fox
Possibly Milwaukee
Giddey/Alexander in OKC


Doubt he'd go to Atlanta. OKC might be the best fit or with the Kings. Teams that run and score 125 and up!

[Medford]

Flybye, its not just a NY thing from 2 years ago, that was the rap that Thibs had earned in Chicago where they would fight like dogs all season long then looked worn down and injuried in the playoffs. Weren't the Knicks playing Atlanta 2 seasons ago, hardly overmatched (4 vs 5), won the second game then lost by 9, 17 and 15 to close out the series.


But all that aside, last night was a great example of having an opportunity to rest Randle some and not taking advantage of it. Brunson played 38 minutes as well.


Meanwhile, every Lakers starter played less than 30 in a similarly easy win, only Jason Tatum played more than 30 (34) for the Celtrics last night in an easy win over Detroit. Late in the season, take advantage of the opportunities to rest these players bodies when you can.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by Flyer 86 Very much doubt he'd go to Brooklyn. I like Dinwiddie but he's a shot freator..creator... for himself. He needs point guards who pass, who PNR, who create. He'd be great with: DONCIC in Dallas Chris Paul in Phoenix Possibly Halliburton or Dejonte Murray (INDY OR Atlanta) Kings with Fox Possibly Milwaukee Giddey/Alexander in OKC Doubt he'd go to Atlanta. OKC might be the best fit or with the Kings. Teams that run and score 125 and up!

there have been multiple rumors of Indy trying to get Obi approaching the trade deadline, maybe this offseason.

[flybye]

Look We Knick fans would shed zero tears if Thibs moved on... my point is I want OBI to step up and be more aggressive and earn more min..: as ya see with other young players Thibs will play ya if ya earn it.
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[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by flybye Look We Knick fans would shed zero tears if Thibs moved on... my point is I want OBI to step up and be more aggressive and earn more min..: as ya see with other young players Thibs will play ya if ya earn it. Posted via Mobile Device

When I lived in The City, my friends and I were Nets fans. I think they had Petrovic and Ricky Dudley. They were fun to watch. I was never a Ewing fan, so it was an easy choice.
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[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I hate being devil's advocate when it comes to Obi because I really do love everything about the guy, but does anybody remember when Chris Wright got called up for the last 10 games of the season and averaged like 27 points, (that number is not exact)? I am not sure he played in the NBA after that. Teams play guys that don't get alot of playing time when they are out of the playoff race. The Knicks shut Randle down and Obi got the starter's minutes but my guess/assumption is that he wasn't always playing against a line up of starters from the other team. He certainly played against starts in some of the games because some of those games were against teams that were still in it. My point is: saying Obi scored a ton of points in the last 10 games of the year so sort of like saying the walkon who went 2/2 from the three point line in the last 2 minutes of a 30 point blowout needs to get more time. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't but I don't think you can base it on play that is not necessarily representative of what happens throughout a whole season (or game). I agree 100% that if Obi went somewhere with a different offensive philosophy he could flourish, we know he has the ability and that he will put in the work. What sucks about being good enough to be a lottery pick is that you probably aren't going to a great team, rather you are part of a rebuild. In Obi's case, he was unlucky enough to go to a team that was not convinced they had the PF for their future (Randle), and then he (Randle) developed into an all-star. Who knows what will happen, maybe the Knicks will trade Randle, maybe Randle will demand a trade. Until then we will have to take what we can get as far as Obi watching goes, and he will have to bide his time and I assume buy multiple homes and luxury vehicles. Edit: FlyingArrow, I quoted the wrong post, because I am a moron.

I believe Chris had one game where he scored 27 points. I think that was the last game of the season iirc. Obi averaged about 25+ the last 10 games he started and he eclipsed his previous personal game highs like the last 4 or five games with his last game going for 42 points. Last night in limited playing time, in 13 minutes scored 11 points going 3/6 from 3 and a dunk. Not bad considering he really has been relegated to only shooting 3’s inside of the Thibideau “
Offense” (if you can call his offense a “system”…it barely is). Obi does this often-but he also has games where he scores very little. It’s tough score when he’s typically getting 5 minutes at the start of the 2 quarter and like most nights, 5 minutes again at the start of the 4th quarter. Usually with very few offensive touches.

The one thing that Thibideau consistently says about Obi is that from a defensive standpoint he’s lacking- but I watch nearly all of the Knicks games and he’s no worse than anyone else on the team.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by flybye Look We Knick fans would shed zero tears if Thibs moved on... my point is I want OBI to step up and be more aggressive and earn more min..: as ya see with other young players Thibs will play ya if ya earn it. Posted via Mobile Device

Do you actually watch the games or just like to post contradictory sentences? Tough to be aggressive when you're double-teamed teammates refuse to throw you the ball when you're wide open. This happens several times a game, sometimes a few times during the same possession. Obi is plenty aggressive. Calling for an alley-oop nearly every game I see him in, where, at Dayton, those are wide open dunks - rarely gets the lob. Instead, over and over again, I see IQ run into traffic, double or triple teamed and still attempt a layup or floater. Ditto Brunson or Barrett or you name them. These guys don't play team ball, Obi does; that's the difference. Obi will thrive in a real offense.

[flybye]

No need to attack.. I am a Knick Fan grew up there ... if you think he is aggressive I would question if you watch the games.. slow down and try reading my post ... I am not a Thibs guy but OBI needs to do more... let me ask ya question... since your watch the games... why don’t you think his teammates don’t pass him the ball??? Interested in your answer ....
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[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by flybye No need to attack.. I am a Knick Fan grew up there ... if you think he is aggressive I would question if you watch the games.. slow down and try reading my post ... I am not a Thibs guy but OBI needs to do more... let me ask ya question... since your watch the games... why don’t you think his teammates don’t pass him the ball??? Interested in your answer .... Posted via Mobile Device

Short of screaming at his teammates during timeouts (which actually, lately I've seen him making comments like "I was wide open" to several of the guys), I'm not sure why they don't pass to him; he's clearly calling for the ball. When you see him jumping up and down with his hands over his head waving...that's a sure sign. I can only conclude that personal stats (aka blatant selfishness) are more important to most of his teammates than just hitting the open man which usually will result in a return pass back to them in other possessions. Again, the NYKnicks team presently, is an offense built on circa 1970's one on one basketball.

add: And i'll mention, a few weeks ago Obi came in, hit 3/3 from beyond the ark and I believe had like 4/6 for the quarter against the Raptors and even the Raptors announcers were laughing saying "Where is Obi Toppin; you'd think as hot as he was in the first half, he'd be in there". Thibs refuses to experiment with Randle at the 5, Obi at the 4 or Obi at the 4, Randle at the 3. Those 2 guys are rarely on the court at the same time.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by flybye No need to attack.. I am a Knick Fan grew up there ... if you think he is aggressive I would question if you watch the games.. slow down and try reading my post ... I am not a Thibs guy but OBI needs to do more... let me ask ya question... since your watch the games... why don’t you think his teammates don’t pass him the ball??? Interested in your answer .... Posted via Mobile Device

"Obi needs to do more" doesn't make sense when you look at how he is utilized in the offense. Do you think Obi just wants to hang out on the perimeter and not roll to the basket?

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Medford Flybye, its not just a NY thing from 2 years ago, that was the rap that Thibs had earned in Chicago where they would fight like dogs all season long then looked worn down and injuried in the playoffs. Weren't the Knicks playing Atlanta 2 seasons ago, hardly overmatched (4 vs 5), won the second game then lost by 9, 17 and 15 to close out the series. But all that aside, last night was a great example of having an opportunity to rest Randle some and not taking advantage of it. Brunson played 38 minutes as well. Meanwhile, every Lakers starter played less than 30 in a similarly easy win, only Jason Tatum played more than 30 (34) for the Celtrics last night in an easy win over Detroit. Late in the season, take advantage of the opportunities to rest these players bodies when you can.

To be fair, wasn't "the wall" the Bulls hit in the playoffs usually the NBA's all time leading scorer in his prime.

[Monster Man]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I watched a game about a week ago to see Obi play and was left with the same feeling I get once per year: the NBA is as unwatchable as major league baseball in the era of swing angles. Given the choice I would literally rather log on to my computer and work.

It’s hard to watch, Obi’s role in the offense is to camp out in the corner. I quit watching.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 To be fair, wasn't "the wall" the Bulls hit in the playoffs usually the NBA's all time leading scorer in his prime.

Fair point, they did drop 3 series to LeBron led Heat/Cavs teams, lossing 12 games in those 3 series vs 3 4 victores (4-1, 4-1, 4-2).


They also got beat in the first round 4-2 as the 1 seed vs Philly, and again in the 1st round 4-1 as the 4 seed vs Washington as his 5 year run in Chicago ended.


He then proceed to Minnesota and helped them break their long playoff drought by gaining the 8 seed in year 3, and promptly got beat 4-1 by Houston in round 1.


Then of course got beat 4-1 by Atlanta in his lone playoff bid with the Knicks.


There is 0 question that Thibs gets his team to grind it out and fight all season long, but its far more than just losing to LeBron in the playoffs, they have often been noncompetitive despite in relatively, if not favorable matchups. His players for the most part must love playing for him because there have been numerous players that have following him from Chicago to Minnesota and/or the Knicks. But having watched him in Chicago (I'm a Jordan era fan, even if they haven't given me much to root for outside of those early Thib seasons) and now from a far following Obi, the criticism that he wears down his dudes during the regular season is fair. The last game was a perfect example where late in the season he could have rested several of his key players for bigger stretches and worked his bench more. Obi would have been a natural benefactor and is the only reason I even pay attention or care what the Knicks and Thibs do, but its a pattern that has shown his whole career.

[TXFlyerFan]

There's no way Obi is, on his own, deciding to camp out in the corner 3 spot. He's there to free up space inside so one of the other Knicks can go one on one, usually Brunson or Barrett, sometimes Quickley. Obi would gladly set picks, roll to the basket, and do other things on offense as well if that's what the Knicks told him to do. They don't. Heck, last game, Obi was 3-3 from 3 and scored 11 in the first half. He was still pulled after 6 minutes. In the 4th qtr, he got 4:30 and was subbed out. He eventually did get in the final couple of minutes in a blowout, but it's not like he wasn't playing well and could have gotten more time. Thibs has his rotation and his times, and he sticks to it regardless.

[Swampy Meadows]

In the 1H vs the Wiz Obi was 0-3 with 2 boards, zero points and zero highlights. He finishes with 2 points on 1-4 shooting in 12 minutes of run.

Highlight: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...=TheKnicksWall
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[Swampy Meadows]

The NYK tattooed the Pelicans by 29 and yet Obi only got his normal 12 minutes in which he went 1-4 all on threes for 3 points with 2 rebounds.
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[Swampy Meadows]

Obi and the NYK face the Celtics at MSG tonight. He went 2-2 @ the FT line. He then hit a pretty driving layup:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...DSjc-6oqAtAAAA

4 points and 1 carom in 6 1H minutes.

In the 2H Obi hit one triple: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...96520473452545

And then missed another but followed that up with a slam;

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...96828343738368

Finishes with 9 markers and 4 boards in 12 total minutes.

[Medford]

I wonder if Crutcher will get the call up, Ball went down with a broken ankle last night and is out for the rest of the season. Crutcher has been doing well in the G-league, hopefully he gets a chance to prove he belongs in the NBA.

[Swampy Meadows]

You would have to think with Ball down and a two-way contract slot open on their roster that the Hornets would give Jalen a shot.

As Obi would say “League him!”
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[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by Medford I wonder if Crutcher will get the call up, Ball went down with a broken ankle last night and is out for the rest of the season. Crutcher has been doing well in the G-league, hopefully he gets a chance to prove he belongs in the NBA.

Clutcher has been playing well the past two seasons for the Swarm. I was shocked he did not get called up to the big squad last year after the Swarm season ended to finish out the Hornets last few games.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630622/

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleagu...Swarm/45/stats

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Ready Action Clutcher has been playing well the past two seasons for the Swarm.

FWIW, he's the franchise leader in 3-pointers so Hornets' management has to keep that in mind for the call-up.

FWIW II, This morning the Hornets sent 2 guards - Bouknight and Maledon - down to their G-League team...

[Swampy Meadows]

Last night the NYK blew out the Nets. Obi got 13 minutes of burn, scoring 2 points and getting 1 assist, steal and rebound. Highlight:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/...Cw1b2E66ItAAAA

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi finishes the night vs. Miami with 2 points on 1-5 shooting (0-3 from three), 1 rebound and 2 dimes in 12 minutes. Highlight:

https://twitter.com/knicks_post/stat...36299999977474

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi and the NYK visit the Celtics at 7:30 pm on ESPN tonight. And by 7:30 they mean the tip will be more like 7:45.

Obi starts the 2Q and absolutely bricked a three and then was the recipient of a really lousy lob which he could not control. Later #1 got out on the break and did what Obi does:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...Cz9c7u_6ctAAAA

In 6 1H minutes he scores 2, grabs 1 board and assists on 1. Obi's leak out got a reaction from the Celtics:

Tim Bontemps
@TimBontemps

Joe Mazzulla is as upset as I've seen him at his team after that sequence ended with an alley-oop for Obi Toppin. He just grabbed the clipboard after the timeout, barked at the team & tossed it before going to meet with his coaches.

Now the players are chatting among themselves.

In the 4Q Obi converted 2 FTs when he actually should have been called for a charge. He then hit a layup to boost the NYK lead to 11:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...72466705883138

Then in a turnabout is fair play, he got called for a charge. (Sorry, that's the Celtic fan in me coming thru).

He finishes with 6 points a board and a dime in 11 minutes. It should be noted that Thibs went small at the end of the 4Q with Randle at the 5 and Josh Hart at the 4.

[TXFlyerFan]

We should all face the facts the Obi is done in NY, and I hope it's the best thing for him. He needs to be traded to a team who appreciates what he brings and utilizes him accordingly. That will never happen while Thibs is there. I saw play after play of Randle not blocking out on rebounds, getting schooled by Celtics players, but if that were Obi, he'd by yanked immediately. It's not that Randle isn't better overall, or at least for the way the Knicks play, it's that he simply doesn't give Obi any leeway or freedom on offense, yet he let's other players do things that Obi would immediately get yanked for. I hated that the Knicks won that stupid game. I want Thibs to lose every time. Hopefully, come playoff time, they get kicked in the shins in the first round again.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan We should all face the facts the Obi is done in NY, and I hope it's the best thing for him. He needs to be traded to a team who appreciates what he brings and utilizes him accordingly. That will never happen while Thibs is there. I saw play after play of Randle not blocking out on rebounds, getting schooled by Celtics players, but if that were Obi, he'd by yanked immediately. It's not that Randle isn't better overall, or at least for the way the Knicks play, it's that he simply doesn't give Obi any leeway or freedom on offense, yet he let's other players do things that Obi would immediately get yanked for. I hated that the Knicks won that stupid game. I want Thibs to lose every time. Hopefully, come playoff time, they get kicked in the shins in the first round again.

I was so hoping this was the year he got traded to a new team. Agree 100%…if Obi wants a real shot at being a NBA player who has a good career, then his time with the Knicks needs to end. If Obi and his family value playing in NY and what that affords them off the court, and they may, then he’ll stay as long as the Knicks will have him.

In the end it’s his decision and as fans we just get to debate it. But, dang I hope he wants a more successful career shot and he gets it. He is so entertaining to watch when he can use all of his athletic gifts.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA I was so hoping this was the year he got traded to a new team. Agree 100%…if Obi wants a real shot at being a NBA player who has a good career, then his time with the Knicks needs to end. If Obi and his family value playing in NY and what that affords them off the court, and they may, then he’ll stay as long as the Knicks will have him. In the end it’s his decision and as fans we just get to debate it. But, dang I hope he wants a more successful career shot and he gets it. He is so entertaining to watch when he can use all of his athletic gifts.

Well, you can have a good NBA career elsewhere, or a shorter, and less $ career in NY because it's your "dream". I don't know who's advising Obi or what they are telling him, but his agent should be demanding a trade this off-season. Unfortunately, they've driven down his value so much they may not accept any offers and year 4 will be the same or worse than year 3.

[Flyers98]

So the unfortunate fact is that at least currently, it is not up to Obi. The Knicks have a team option this year (and I think next), so if he wants to play in the NBA, unless he is traded or released, he will be in New York.

Agents demand things when they have leverage. Right now Obi and his agent have as much leverage to demand a trade as I do, (FWIIW, I am not currently on an NBA roster).

While I generally agree that Obi, through Thibs' stupidity or just circumstance, has not gotten a fair shake, it is ironic that someone brought up Randle not boxing out, to which I would reply "at least he was going after a rebound."

[CoffeeCan]

I do not follow the NBA but it sounds like Obi is in a bad situation with NY.
How many teams do you think he can start for?

[Medford]

Its not about starting, its about fit. No matter if Obi was coming off the bench or starting, he appears to be a bad fit for what Thibs is doing. It seemed like he displayed enough in the last 2 weeks of last season to have warranted something more consistent and meaningful, and who knows what practices look like, but I think we all agree that having Obi sit on the 3 point line isn't a recipe for his own personal success.


To be fair, the Knicks are on a heck of a run atm, I still would have my hesitations about what Thibs typically does during the playoffs but hard to argue with the here and now.


The question is, how many teams in the NBA would fit what Obi does best. I don't watch enough NBA to know, but I would think any teams that like to get out and run would suit him well. The Knicks rank 6th to last in fast break points per game FWIW.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Medford Its not about starting, its about fit. No matter if Obi was coming off the bench or starting, he appears to be a bad fit for what Thibs is doing. It seemed like he displayed enough in the last 2 weeks of last season to have warranted something more consistent and meaningful, and who knows what practices look like, but I think we all agree that having Obi sit on the 3 point line isn't a recipe for his own personal success. To be fair, the Knicks are on a heck of a run atm, I still would have my hesitations about what Thibs typically does during the playoffs but hard to argue with the here and now. The question is, how many teams in the NBA would fit what Obi does best. I don't watch enough NBA to know, but I would think any teams that like to get out and run would suit him well. The Knicks rank 6th to last in fast break points per game FWIW.

In my opinion, the 2 teams that showed the most interest are good fits; Indiana and Utah. I could actually see him fitting in with Boston as well - just my opinion. Thibs is ruining Obi game. Obi can hit 3's but he needs an open 3 created by an efficient, non-shelfish offense (that doesn't exist at NY), not a "throw it to Obi in the corner with 2 seconds left on the shot clock 3".

I find it interesting that the rumors of "why" Obi wasn't traded in February was that the NY Knicks "wanted a boatload of $$" for him. If I were Obi, I'd continue to work on every aspect of the game; mid-range, pressure 3's, etc. I predict he'll get traded in the off season.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 So the unfortunate fact is that at least currently, it is not up to Obi. The Knicks have a team option this year (and I think next), so if he wants to play in the NBA, unless he is traded or released, he will be in New York. Agents demand things when they have leverage. Right now Obi and his agent have as much leverage to demand a trade as I do, (FWIIW, I am not currently on an NBA roster). While I generally agree that Obi, through Thibs' stupidity or just circumstance, has not gotten a fair shake, it is ironic that someone brought up Randle not boxing out, to which I would reply "at least he was going after a rebound."

If by going after a rebound, you mean sort of standing near the basket not really playing defense, and then letting a Celtic player go right past him and get position, sure, he was going after a rebound.

[TXFlyerFan]

I watch a fair amount of NBA action (Mavs, Clippers, Warriors, Knicks), and other games. Pretty much every team, with few exceptions, are always looking to make the extra pass to the open player, whether that's at the 3 line or at the basket. Now, of course, it's not every single play. Every time runs isolation plays from time to time, but so may are moving the ball quickly and getting their players in a position to be successful. The Knicks are a ground and pound, especially when Brunson and Randle are on the floor. It's almost always an isolation play for one of them. When Obi comes in, he's directed to get wide (go to the corner). Sure, he set's picks, but it's never for a pick and roll, it's always to try and free Quickley or Brunson, depends on who's in the game at the moment. While Obi does get some open looks, they are pretty rare. He's a square peg in a round hole in NY. He would be successful, whether as a starter or as a sub, in almost any other situation. He doesn't need to play 35 minutes per game, though I believe he could and would be successful.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I watch a fair amount of NBA action (Mavs, Clippers, Warriors, Knicks), and other games. Pretty much every team, with few exceptions, are always looking to make the extra pass to the open player, whether that's at the 3 line or at the basket. Now, of course, it's not every single play. Every time runs isolation plays from time to time, but so may are moving the ball quickly and getting their players in a position to be successful. The Knicks are a ground and pound, especially when Brunson and Randle are on the floor. It's almost always an isolation play for one of them. When Obi comes in, he's directed to get wide (go to the corner). Sure, he set's picks, but it's never for a pick and roll, it's always to try and free Quickley or Brunson, depends on who's in the game at the moment. While Obi does get some open looks, they are pretty rare. He's a square peg in a round hole in NY. He would be successful, whether as a starter or as a sub, in almost any other situation. He doesn't need to play 35 minutes per game, though I believe he could and would be successful.

Agree 100%; if Obi got a consistent 25-30 minutes a game or more, no question he'd average 15-18 ppg, 5-8 rebounds, 2-3 assists, 1-2 blocks, 1-2 steals per game. Thibideau has made it a point to discredit Obi's performances. I look at a recent acquisition of Josh Hart, decent player, etc...but he's not any better than Obi in my opinion, just getting a lot more of a chance to play. I only hope that Obi ASKS for a trade in the off-season.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Agree 100%; if Obi got a consistent 25-30 minutes a game or more, no question he'd average 15-18 ppg, 5-8 rebounds, 2-3 assists, 1-2 blocks, 1-2 steals per game. Thibideau has made it a point to discredit Obi's performances. I look at a recent acquisition of Josh Hart, decent player, etc...but he's not any better than Obi in my opinion, just getting a lot more of a chance to play. I only hope that Obi ASKS for a trade in the off-season.

Josh hart is objectively, based on body of work to this point, a better NBA player than Obi Toppin (although they don't play the same position), which is why a playoff team was looking to add Josh Hart, and trying (maybe not that hard), to trade Obi Toppin.

I love Obi and want him to do well but how can you say if his minutes were X his stats would be Y? If Obi played 30 minutes a game, he would be playing against starters who have watched tape and game planned for him, he would have to play defense and rebound, (not saying that is his fault given his roll now, but if you play 30 minutes you aren't just standing on the perimeter looking to get a fast break). Alot of things would be different. Part of the problem is that Obi just isn't the phenom he was in college in the NBA. There was nobody who did what Obi did when he was in college, but in the NBA he is a "poor man's Kevin Durant" and tons of guys have the athletic gifts and motor that he does.

I also don't get how you can say that Thibs is "discrediting" Obi's performances. What does that even mean? Does he go into press conferences after Obi has a good game and say that the guy defending Obi had an off night or that Obi got lucky? He is not Phil Jackson, I sincerely doubt he was the final decision maker on the Hart trade.

I get the frustration for guy we all like and want to succeed, but this just isn't reality. Reality may well be that there isn't a significant roll for Obi on the Knicks because their system and/or coach suck but it certainly isn't because the coach has some axe to grind or hates Obi, at least from where I am sitting.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Josh hart is objectively, based on body of work to this point, a better NBA player than Obi Toppin (although they don't play the same position), which is why a playoff team was looking to add Josh Hart, and trying (maybe not that hard), to trade Obi Toppin. I love Obi and want him to do well but how can you say if his minutes were X his stats would be Y? If Obi played 30 minutes a game, he would be playing against starters who have watched tape and game planned for him, he would have to play defense and rebound, (not saying that is his fault given his roll now, but if you play 30 minutes you aren't just standing on the perimeter looking to get a fast break). Alot of things would be different. Part of the problem is that Obi just isn't the phenom he was in college in the NBA. There was nobody who did what Obi did when he was in college, but in the NBA he is a "poor man's Kevin Durant" and tons of guys have the athletic gifts and motor that he does. I also don't get how you can say that Thibs is "discrediting" Obi's performances. What does that even mean? Does he go into press conferences after Obi has a good game and say that the guy defending Obi had an off night or that Obi got lucky? He is not Phil Jackson, I sincerely doubt he was the final decision maker on the Hart trade. I get the frustration for guy we all like and want to succeed, but this just isn't reality. Reality may well be that there isn't a significant roll for Obi on the Knicks because their system and/or coach suck but it certainly isn't because the coach has some axe to grind or hates Obi, at least from where I am sitting.

Not sure you've really been watching this for the last 3 years like I have.

"I also don't get how you can say that Thibs is "discrediting" Obi's performances. What does that even mean? Does he go into press conferences after Obi has a good game and say that the guy defending Obi had an off night or that Obi got lucky? " Yes, he's actually made comments like this in the past such as "see, Obi got 33 minutes and he only scored 18 points and 7 rebounds" (sic).

I do get the impression that for whatever reason, Thibs just doesn't like Obi. He's actually made comments about how he doesn't care about "flashy dunks", etc... As I've said before, Obi was defensively weak his first year; since then, he's tightened up his defense significantly and while not a defensive "stopper", he's no worse than anyone else on the Knicks team.

"I love Obi and want him to do well but how can you say if his minutes were X his stats would be Y? If Obi played 30 minutes a game, he would be playing against starters who have watched tape and game planned for him, he would have to play defense and rebound,"

When Julius Randle was injured late last year, Obi got a lot of mins the last 5 games and I'm pretty sure he scored: 20, 20, 19,35 and 42 points the last 5 games - all against quality opponents - that's good enough of a sample size for me.

[Flyers98]

I can totally see Thibs saying that he doesn't care about flashy dunks, because...he's right and that is basically why alot of the fanbase wants Obi to play more.

The other quote I am going to call BS on. If you can give me a cite or a video I will happily apologize but being a Bull's fan I know that Thibs doesn't engage with the media in that fashion. I also don't think pointing out that a guy had 18 and 7 proves the point that he should not get more minutes. I have not watched every game but I have watched alot, and when I miss them I check the box score. I have heard Thibs be complimentary of Obi after games, but since I don't recall exactly when or what he said, I won't try to paraphrase.

Only two of those last five games you referenced were against playoff teams, (Toronto and Brooklyn), in a league where 16 of 32 teams make the playoffs (and four more make a play in game, which is not considered the playoffs), both Toronto and Brooklyn lost in the first round of the playoffs. Every player on the Raptors Roster played at least 7:50 in that game, which leads me to believe that their seed was locked. The Nets game I will give you. It looks like all the starters played starters minutes in that game. In any event, I stand by my statement that you can't draw a conclusion that he would "no question" (your words), average X with Y minutes, especially looking at your 5 game sample size.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I can totally see Thibs saying that he doesn't care about flashy dunks, because...he's right and that is basically why alot of the fanbase wants Obi to play more. The other quote I am going to call BS on. If you can give me a cite or a video I will happily apologize but being a Bull's fan I know that Thibs doesn't engage with the media in that fashion. I also don't think pointing out that a guy had 18 and 7 proves the point that he should not get more minutes. I have not watched every game but I have watched alot, and when I miss them I check the box score. I have heard Thibs be complimentary of Obi after games, but since I don't recall exactly when or what he said, I won't try to paraphrase. Only two of those last five games you referenced were against playoff teams, (Toronto and Brooklyn), in a league where 16 of 32 teams make the playoffs (and four more make a play in game, which is not considered the playoffs), both Toronto and Brooklyn lost in the first round of the playoffs. Every player on the Raptors Roster played at least 7:50 in that game, which leads me to believe that their seed was locked. The Nets game I will give you. It looks like all the starters played starters minutes in that game. In any event, I stand by my statement that you can't draw a conclusion that he would "no question" (your words), average X with Y minutes, especially looking at your 5 game sample size.

All you have to go on, is what actually happened. Obi started 10 games last season. One in December, one in January, and 8 in March/April.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/obi...in%202021%2D22.

You can see that in all except the December start, he scored in double figures. He's capable when playing starter minutes, as the stats have shown. Can you extrapolate to an entire season? No. But you can make some assumptions that when given starter minutes, he would be in a range of points and rebounds, because he's shown it.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan All you have to go on, is what actually happened. Obi started 10 games last season. One in December, one in January, and 8 in March/April. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/obi...in%202021%2D22. You can see that in all except the December start, he scored in double figures. He's capable when playing starter minutes, as the stats have shown. Can you extrapolate to an entire season? No. But you can make some assumptions that when given starter minutes, he would be in a range of points and rebounds, because he's shown it.

The word no correctly has a period after it. All I was saying is that you can not draw definitive conclusions from the sample size provided. If he plays more would I expect him to score more? Yes. Would I expect him to to get more boards, maybe, not if his role is still to hang out on the perimeter. It is really easy to go overboard when you get enough of the red and blue Kool-Aid coursing through your veins. I don't think Obi has shown enough, (not been given the opportunity), for us to know exactly what kind of NBA player he will ultimately be.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 The other quote I am going to call BS on. If you can give me a cite or a video I will happily apologize but being a Bull's fan I know that Thibs doesn't engage with the media in that fashion. I also don't think pointing out that a guy had 18 and 7 proves the point that he should not get more minutes. I have not watched every game but I have watched alot, and when I miss them I check the box score. I have heard Thibs be complimentary of Obi after games, but since I don't recall exactly when or what he said, I won't try to paraphrase.

He absolutely made a disparaging comment (sic) "see, he got 30+ minutes and you saw the output". I'll find the comment eventually because I saw it on youtube.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 He absolutely made a disparaging comment (sic) "see, he got 30+ minutes and you saw the output". I'll find the comment eventually because I saw it on youtube.

Well then I apologize in advance. I am not a Thibs fan at all but if that happened it is completely classless on his part.

[TXFlyerFan]

At what sample size is enough to guestimate what his output would be. First you said it was because he started in games where playoff positions were locked in, or teams weren't even in. But the January game was against a to be playoff team, where he also scored 19. Look, no one can say what would happen with absolute certainty, but 10 games is sufficient to provide bookends around what would likely happen on a consistent basis. Would he be a 20/10 guy? I'm not saying that. But he could provide that on some occasions. Others, he might be more in the 10-12/4-6. Depends on matchups, how other players are playing, etc. But I'm reasonably certain that Obi could average 15-18/6-10 per game if given the opportunity to start.

[rollo]

Is it possible that Obi is happy with the Knicks? Would he be happier in Houston? Winning is fun, too.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyer Dave]

Towards the beginning of the first several games, the Knicks Film School (youtube) put out stats of Obi. I want to say they were based on 33 mins per game. I don’t know where they got that info, but Obi’s were really good.

[CoffeeCan]

A buddy of mine follows the Cavs (and the NBA in general) and think that Obi is just what they need and he would get a lot of minutes.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan A buddy of mine follows the Cavs (and the NBA in general) and think that Obi is just what they need and he would get a lot of minutes.

Someone needs to remind Obi his basketball career really improves when he’s playing for a team based in Ohio. NY and the Knicks are great, but he needs to get his reared back in Ohio to take his game to the next level.

[Swampy Meadows]

In 13 minutes Obi went 1-4 from three-point land:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...90144458629121

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan At what sample size is enough to guestimate what his output would be. First you said it was because he started in games where playoff positions were locked in, or teams weren't even in. But the January game was against a to be playoff team, where he also scored 19. Look, no one can say what would happen with absolute certainty, but 10 games is sufficient to provide bookends around what would likely happen on a consistent basis. Would he be a 20/10 guy? I'm not saying that. But he could provide that on some occasions. Others, he might be more in the 10-12/4-6. Depends on matchups, how other players are playing, etc. But I'm reasonably certain that Obi could average 15-18/6-10 per game if given the opportunity to start.

More than 10 out 224 I would say. I am not sure what would be considered a statistically significant sample size...Figgie? But more than 10 out of 224. I also think that a hallmark of good statistical analysis is not pointing to one event or a small group of events. If you have all the data, use all the data. I am sure I could point to games where he played significant minutes and scored less than 10 points, (by the way scoring in double figures in the NBA is not benchmark that I am aware of and if it is I suggest it is akin to the Mendoza line in baseball, in that it is a benchmark for not sucking, not for being good).

Maybe some of the folks on this board can re-direct some of their fire the coach energy to NYC.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by rollo Is it possible that Obi is happy with the Knicks? Would he be happier in Houston? Winning is fun, too. Posted via Mobile Device

Of course, he's playing for his hometown dream team. And that's partially what's holding him back. The NBA is a business, that values production, especially after spending capital to get it. Obi needs to make sure he's maximizing the return invested in him. And if he can't do it in NY because he's just thrilled to be there no matter what, then both he and Knicks will have failed and his NBA career will be very short with a few highlight dunks.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 More than 10 out 224 I would say. I am not sure what would be considered a statistically significant sample size...Figgie? But more than 10 out of 224. I also think that a hallmark of good statistical analysis is not pointing to one event or a small group of events. If you have all the data, use all the data. I am sure I could point to games where he played significant minutes and scored less than 10 points, (by the way scoring in double figures in the NBA is not benchmark that I am aware of and if it is I suggest it is akin to the Mendoza line in baseball, in that it is a benchmark for not sucking, not for being good). Maybe some of the folks on this board can re-direct some of their fire the coach energy to NYC.

You can't compare 10 to 224, because you're comparing against three years of 12-15 minutes per game vs starting and playing an entire game. The dynamics of starting and playing more are significantly different than coming in for short spells.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan You can't compare 10 to 224, because you're comparing against three years of 12-15 minutes per game vs starting and playing an entire game. The dynamics of starting and playing more are significantly different than coming in for short spells.

I will give you that but those dynamic are also purely speculative, so you can choose the data that serves your narrative but I can't say "let's just look at all the data." That sounds fair and scientifically sound.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I will give you that but those dynamic are also purely speculative, so you can choose the data that serves your narrative but I can't say "let's just look at all the data." That sounds fair and scientifically sound.

I didn't say you couldn't look at all the data, I said you're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, they're both fruits, but they look different, taste different, have different calorie and fiber content, vitamin levels, etc. But one requires peeling before eating, and they taste quite different. Starting (and playing most of the game) is distinctly different than coming off the bench for 12-15 mpg. Some players, it doesn't matter a lot, they thrive in either situation. Some are better suited to start, and some, better off the bench. But most, if not all, would at least benefit from more playing time, and prepping as a starter has clearly been better for Obi than his short stints off the bench. Those facts are pretty clear from the data available.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I didn't say you couldn't look at all the data, I said you're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, they're both fruits, but they look different, taste different, have different calorie and fiber content, vitamin levels, etc. But one requires peeling before eating, and they taste quite different. Starting (and playing most of the game) is distinctly different than coming off the bench for 12-15 mpg. Some players, it doesn't matter a lot, they thrive in either situation. Some are better suited to start, and some, better off the bench. But most, if not all, would at least benefit from more playing time, and prepping as a starter has clearly been better for Obi than his short stints off the bench. Those facts are pretty clear from the data available.

Those are facts that I don't dispute but my original objection was the certainty with which you quantified how stats would improve. We both agree that Obi would have a much better chance of becoming a star if he is in a situation where he can start and play 30+ minutes a game. That will happen if and when he or Randle is traded.

I also disagreed with the notion that Thibs has some personal vendetta against Obi. I think he is frustrated that the fans are so vocal on social media about Obi's playing time, but you don't take an all star out of the game to give another guy minutes. You take an all star out of the game to give him a blow. I acknowledge that Thibs seems to refuse to play Obi and Randle together but who knows why that is. Part of it may be because neither one of them is a strong defender or rebounder. Ideally if you were going to have both of those guys on the floor one of them would be in the post, not really either of their games.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan A buddy of mine follows the Cavs (and the NBA in general) and think that Obi is just what they need and he would get a lot of minutes.

Weren't the Cavs one of the teams rumored to be talking to the Knicks about Obi before the trade deadline? I bet Thibs would love if they traded him, he wouldn't have to deal with the fans. A true win-win-win.

[Flyer Dave]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Those are facts that I don't dispute but my original objection was the certainty with which you quantified how stats would improve. We both agree that Obi would have a much better chance of becoming a star if he is in a situation where he can start and play 30+ minutes a game. That will happen if and when he or Randle is traded. I also disagreed with the notion that Thibs has some personal vendetta against Obi. I think he is frustrated that the fans are so vocal on social media about Obi's playing time, but you don't take an all star out of the game to give another guy minutes. You take an all star out of the game to give him a blow. I acknowledge that Thibs seems to refuse to play Obi and Randle together but who knows why that is. Part of it may be because neither one of them is a strong defender or rebounder. Ideally if you were going to have both of those guys on the floor one of them would be in the post, not really either of their games.

The last overtime game, didn’t Tibbs keep Randle in the whole 2nd half and overtime, not giving him a blow? Randle was walking back up the court. Looked very tired if you ask me.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Those are facts that I don't dispute but my original objection was the certainty with which you quantified how stats would improve. We both agree that Obi would have a much better chance of becoming a star if he is in a situation where he can start and play 30+ minutes a game. That will happen if and when he or Randle is traded. I also disagreed with the notion that Thibs has some personal vendetta against Obi. I think he is frustrated that the fans are so vocal on social media about Obi's playing time, but you don't take an all star out of the game to give another guy minutes. You take an all star out of the game to give him a blow. I acknowledge that Thibs seems to refuse to play Obi and Randle together but who knows why that is. Part of it may be because neither one of them is a strong defender or rebounder. Ideally if you were going to have both of those guys on the floor one of them would be in the post, not really either of their games.

I didn't say any of those things. I think you have me confused with someone who posted that. I simply supported the supposition that when he started, he did have stats that supported it.

[Swampy Meadows]

Last night Obi had 5 points on 2-7 shooting (1-5 from 3) in 12 minutes in a loss to Portland.

Highlights: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...57668338786304

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKnicks...58061936558080
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Flyer Dave The last overtime game, didn’t Tibbs keep Randle in the whole 2nd half and overtime, not giving him a blow? Randle was walking back up the court. Looked very tired if you ask me.

Imagine a coach of a team fighting for playoff position leaving his star player in for the whole second half and overtime.

[Flyer Dave]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Imagine a coach of a team fighting for playoff position leaving his star player in for the whole second half and overtime.

If he wanted his star player in the whole 4th and overtime…maybe sit him more in the 2nd and 3rd.

[Swampy Meadows]

This afternoon Obi registered 10 points, 5 rebounds and an assist in 13 minutes in a loss to the Clippers.

Highlights:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...72139474182146

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...73185638567940

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi was one of six NYK in double figures in a road win over Portland. He finished with 11 points on 4-6 shooting (3-5 from three), with a rebound and a dime in 14 minutes.

#1 hits a pair of triples:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...36312421822472

[SeasonTicketFan]

I saw the Timberwolves play the Hawks live in Atlanta on Monday. The Wolves play Luka Garza about 10 minutes a game, similar to Obi. Their offense is so different than the Knicks. When Luka was in the game, he was allowed to visit the lane and move, not stand in the corner. Night and day from how Obi is used. Garza is a good player and had a good night.

Yes, the Knicks have a better record, but you wonder how much better it could be if the offense was a bit different.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan I saw the Timberwolves play the Hawks live in Atlanta on Monday. The Wolves play Luka Garza about 10 minutes a game, similar to Obi. Their offense is so different than the Knicks. When Luka was in the game, he was allowed to visit the lane and move, not stand in the corner. Night and day from how Obi is used. Garza is a good player and had a good night. Yes, the Knicks have a better record, but you wonder how much better it could be if the offense was a bit different.

Garza and Obi are completely different players, (which is not to say that Obi should be standing on the perimeter). Obi is not a traditional post, Garza is. Garza does not have Obi's athleticism and game outside 5-7 feet. I should note that I have not seen Garza play since college so maybe my opinion is dated and he developed more outside skills in the G league.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Garza and Obi are completely different players, (which is not to say that Obi should be standing on the perimeter). Obi is not a traditional post, Garza is. Garza does not have Obi's athleticism and game outside 5-7 feet. I should note that I have not seen Garza play since college so maybe my opinion is dated and he developed more outside skills in the G league.

Garza can play the wing and did. He took some 3 point shots on Monday. He was not a back to the basket from 3 feet player at all. He flowed from side to side inside and out.

Obi is relegated to stand in the corner and watch for the majority of his offensive plays.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan Garza can play the wing and did. He took some 3 point shots on Monday. He was not a back to the basket from 3 feet player at all. He flowed from side to side inside and out. Obi is relegated to stand in the corner and watch for the majority of his offensive plays.

Well then his game has developed, good on him! As I have said many many times before, I agree that Obi's talent is being wasted, (and probably also not being allowed to develop), with him just standing on the perimeter but it would seem the only solution to that is for either he or Randle to be traded. Obi currently has no leverage to demand a trade as the team has a one way option next year. So unless somebody makes an offer the Knicks can't refuse for either he or Randle, I expect more of the same.

[TXFlyerFan]

The Knicks have a ton of draft capital, they could let trade Obi without having to demand too much in return. There's no point keeping him as long as Thibs is coach, because he doesn't fit their system. I watched the Clippers / Warriors game last night. It's just a completely different brand of basketball than the Knicks play, on both teams. Obi would thrive on the Warriors and the Clippers.

Now, does Obi still have holes in his game? Yes. He doesn't really have strong moves around the basket and he's not an outstanding rebounder when he is around the basket, which he often isn't. I can't speak specifically to what he's told to do on the floor. We know he's directed to the corner, usually opposite side of where the ball is, so that Barrett or Brunson can play 1 on 1 with their defender. But when a shot goes up, he is sprinting back on D. I don't ever see him drifting towards the basket when a shot goes up. What I can't say is if that's what he's told to do or not.

If you watch Obi, even when he doesn't leak out, he often outruns the opposition. That reverse dunk he had the other night, he started from well behind everyone and sprinted up the floor, beating everyone to the basket. That's a skill that the Knicks don't know how to use, nor do they have the personnel to use it.

The best thing for Obi would be to continue practicing his 3, but also work on his post game. He needs to be able to play in there. Not like Barkley, but if you get the ball down low, you need to have some good moves. He needs work in that area. I also think he needs to be a little more physical when he's on the court. But I think he's afraid to foul because he'll get pulled.

Whatever the case, to have a longer NBA career, he needs to go to a team with an entirely different philosophy than the Knicks have.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan The Knicks have a ton of draft capital, they could let trade Obi without having to demand too much in return. There's no point keeping him as long as Thibs is coach, because he doesn't fit their system. I watched the Clippers / Warriors game last night. It's just a completely different brand of basketball than the Knicks play, on both teams. Obi would thrive on the Warriors and the Clippers. Now, does Obi still have holes in his game? Yes. He doesn't really have strong moves around the basket and he's not an outstanding rebounder when he is around the basket, which he often isn't. I can't speak specifically to what he's told to do on the floor. We know he's directed to the corner, usually opposite side of where the ball is, so that Barrett or Brunson can play 1 on 1 with their defender. But when a shot goes up, he is sprinting back on D. I don't ever see him drifting towards the basket when a shot goes up. What I can't say is if that's what he's told to do or not. If you watch Obi, even when he doesn't leak out, he often outruns the opposition. That reverse dunk he had the other night, he started from well behind everyone and sprinted up the floor, beating everyone to the basket. That's a skill that the Knicks don't know how to use, nor do they have the personnel to use it. The best thing for Obi would be to continue practicing his 3, but also work on his post game. He needs to be able to play in there. Not like Barkley, but if you get the ball down low, you need to have some good moves. He needs work in that area. I also think he needs to be a little more physical when he's on the court. But I think he's afraid to foul because he'll get pulled. Whatever the case, to have a longer NBA career, he needs to go to a team with an entirely different philosophy than the Knicks have.

They wanted too much $$$ for the few teams that showed interest in him before this years trade deadline (at least according to reports). Everything he does on the court, at least offensively is "following orders". He's even directing his own teams players to "move" out of the wings whenever he's out there. He never or rarely drives to the basket, the few times he has done it he's mostly successful. Yeah, I see him leak out all the time, Knicks player very rarely notice him beating the defense and when they do, they usually "f" up the pass throwing it way over his head. It's hard to watch, yet, despite all that he's relatively successful. Agree, he should just continue to work on his 3 point shot/release. If I were him, I'd work on specifically speed catch and release shooting 3's; try to move his 3 point average above or close to 40%. He does that, he'll be fine once he can move and become a free agent.

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi had 5 points on 2-5 shooting (1-4 from three) in only 12 minutes of run in a win vs. the Nuggets.

Highlight: https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1637149821948526593

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi is used to getting an alley oop from Jalen, but now it's from Brunson:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...C-3Yi8n7stAAAA

He then snuck underneath and got another nice feed from Brunson:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...DUzaK8oLstAAAA

He finishes with just the 4 points in 11 minutes of action.

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi went 1-5 for 3 points to go with 4 boards and an assist in 12 minutes vs. Miami, Highlight:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...96254770233345

[Flyers98]

Knicks are in 4K tonight, if you have such an apparatus, (sadly I do not).

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi finishes with 5 points (1-5 three-point shooting) in only 12 minutes. He was -25.

Highlights: https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...68570020876290

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...DQvbT6kr8tAAAA

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi hit for 15 points on 6-12 shooting (3-8 from three) in 19 minutes and actually closed out the game:

Highlights: https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/s...27658311196672

https://twitter.com/TheStrickland/st...28437998764034

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1640531587698761728

[Swampy Meadows]

Randle sprained his ankle so Obi is getting some serious run. He was the giver rather than receiver of this alley oop:

https://twitter.com/TheStrickland/st...C2ge7268YtAAAA

Obi thrice:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...C97fSM8MYtAAAA

17 minutes thus far: 6 points on 2-4 from three to go with 3 boards and 4 assists.

In typical Thibs fashion, he forgets that Obi exists in the 4 Q, so what you see above is what he got.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Randle's gonna be out 2 weeks

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Randle's gonna be out 2 weeks

I wonder who Obi gets to backup for those two weeks.

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi gets the start in place of the injured Julius Randle. In 9 1Q minutes he nets 6 points on 2-2 three-point marksmanship.

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...49455321530369

https://twitter.com/TheStrickland/st...53454871412736

While Obi is starting, he is not getting Randle's starter minutes. It's obvious Thibs is going to use him for 9 or so minutes to start and then have him sit the rest of the half. Another 9-10 in the 3Q and see ya later #1. Josh Hart didn't start but got the other 15 minutes. Adjust your viewing habit accordingly, Obi fans!

In the 3Q #1 did his damage close to the hoop: a layup, a pump fake dunk:

1641969847192911873

and a breakaway dunk:

1641971008193060865

12 points on 5-7 shooting, a rebound and an assist in 19 minutes

[frisco flyer]

What?

https://twitter.com/kobelegacy824/st...jIALIbqs-3-8xg

[FlyingArrow]

Why do the Knicks even have Obi on the roster? As much as I fault Thibs for wasting Obi... I have to think he has more value on another team. A decent GM should be able to trade Obi for something the Knicks actually want.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer What? https://twitter.com/kobelegacy824/st...jIALIbqs-3-8xg

Much ado about nothing as it happens.

“Knicks’ RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin need to be separated during timeout”

https://nypost.com/2023/03/31/knicks-rj-barrett-obi-toppin-need-to-be-separated/

[Swampy Meadows]

Obi with a monster game against the Washington Generals...errr...Wizards:

21 points on 9-15 shooting in 33 minutes! Highlights galore:

https://twitter.com/Balldontlie/stat...80971840610304

https://twitter.com/FiresideKnicks/s...78650372780032

https://twitter.com/KnicksNation/sta...76603657285636

https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/...69349835096064

https://twitter.com/camisa_23/status...59656014213122

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Obi with a monster game against the Washington Generals...errr...Wizards: 21 points on 9-15 shooting in 33 minutes! Highlights galore: https://twitter.com/Balldontlie/stat...80971840610304 https://twitter.com/FiresideKnicks/s...78650372780032 https://twitter.com/KnicksNation/sta...76603657285636 https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/...69349835096064 https://twitter.com/camisa_23/status...59656014213122

“ Knicks clinch playoff berth with victory over short-handed Wizards”

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-knicks-clinch-playoff-berth-victory-over-wizards-20230403-mwe4d6dvnfahxpsufld4dpjxie-story.html
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Obi with a monster game against the Washington Generals...errr...Wizards: 21 points on 9-15 shooting in 33 minutes! Highlights galore: https://twitter.com/Balldontlie/stat...80971840610304 https://twitter.com/FiresideKnicks/s...78650372780032 https://twitter.com/KnicksNation/sta...76603657285636 https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/...69349835096064 https://twitter.com/camisa_23/status...59656014213122

Just needs a chance to play.

[Fudd]

It takes time to unlearn how to play team basketball.

[CT Flyer]

You don't hear the entire conversation by the announcer so tough to know the exact context, but funny he says "not just shooting three's, what else is in your bag". I guess because Obi is just placed standing in the corner that he is seen as mostly a 3 pt. shooter, which to me should be way down the list of things in Obi's bag.

[Medford]

1 rebound in how many minutes? For a guy starting at the 4, I would say only getting 1 rebound prevents it from being called a "monster" game.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Medford 1 rebound in how many minutes? For a guy starting at the 4, I would say only getting 1 rebound prevents it from being called a "monster" game.

Not really. It all depends on context. Where was the rebound compared to where Obi was. If he was guarding a man out, then he's less likely to get rebounds. Could he have had more? Maybe. I didn't see the game, so it's impossible to say, but 21 points, 4 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block is a hefty game.

[Medford]

I didn't see the game either and perhaps you are right, but there were 45 rebounds each team, so his 1 represented approx 1% of all available rebounds. With No Randle and no RJ Barrett there was certainly a huge need for someone to take on Randel's rebounding. Perhaps it was a team affair on the Knicks end, but even so every Knick with the exception of 3rd/4th string PG Myles McBride has more rebounds than Obi.


Nice offensive night for sure and perhaps a good sign for the Knicks that of the 5 starters, Obi's 4 assists represent the low water mark (4 assists is great for a non ball handling PF, so that is a sign that team was sharing the ball very well), but if Obi wants to get into "monster" territory he needs to hit the boards.

[rollo]

Obi's first reaction, on defense, when a shot goes up, is to go deep. I'm not being critical...just pointing out that his speed and quickness is best used in the open court, not under the basket.

[BeckysTXA]

The highlight I liked the most was him blocking a shot under the basket. A teammate gets the ball as Obi is headed in the other direction. He takes the pass and dribbles to the other end to score. There has to be teams in the NBA saying “we could use some of that”.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo Obi's first reaction, on defense, when a shot goes up, is to go deep. I'm not being critical...just pointing out that his speed and quickness is best used in the open court, not under the basket.

And if standing under the basket is his assignment, how about feeling the closest human and boxing him out?

[TXFlyerFan]

Washington plays a small offense. They didn't play anyone at the traditional PF position, so Obi was most likely guarding a wing on the perimeter. Could/should he get more rebounds? Possibly. But I've seen games where he's had more than others, so it seems more like a situational thing than an effort thing.