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06-27-2017, 10:56 AM
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Most Challenging Coaching Jobs By State
This dude lists Dayton as the most challenging coaching job in Ohio...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...ob-every-state
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06-27-2017, 11:20 AM
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I don't disagree. The perception of OSU (real or not) is they are the best program in the state. X and UC are probably 2 and 3 as well. We are not far off, but we are still probably a tier below those teams. If we continue our rise under Coach Grant, we should be able to join OSU, X, and UC.
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06-27-2017, 02:27 PM
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"During his time at Dayton, Archie Miller expanded the winning culture of a program that's big-time in every way: facilities, fan support, resources and talent. Now, former Alabama coach Anthony Grant will attempt to extend the success with the Flyers, who hope to lure talent from the same regional pool Cincinnati, Xavier and Ohio State all explore."
I thought we were just going to sign kids from Florida now?
But seriously, I don't get it. It seems like the most challenging jobs should be places without a winning culture. That seems like the hardest thing to create. Not saying it will be easy for Grant to sustain, but it seems like keeping a program moving forward would be a lot easier than creating it.
Wright State or a school in the MAC all seem like they'd be the most challenging.
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06-27-2017, 04:17 PM
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I think they are looking at those jobs and thinking it's not that tough because the fanbase doesn't expect much. We have huge expectations from this program, and there are several "larger" local programs to compete against.
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06-27-2017, 04:20 PM
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Bowling Green would be a tough sell to a recruit.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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06-27-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
I think they are looking at those jobs and thinking it's not that tough because the fanbase doesn't expect much. We have huge expectations from this program, and there are several "larger" local programs to compete against.
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Billy Donlon says hi. At Wright State, you can be a really good coach and you are still getting canned. At Dayton, you can be a mediocre coach and set yourself up for a power five job.
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06-27-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Bowling Green would be a tough sell to a recruit.
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Why? New basketball arena...pretty active social/bars scene I think...rough weather though in the winter...no winning tradition either.
Last edited by ud2; 06-27-2017 at 11:38 PM..
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06-27-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Billy Donlon says hi. At Wright State, you can be a really good coach and you are still getting canned. At Dayton, you can be a mediocre coach and set yourself up for a power five job.
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I am not sure that Donlon was a great coach. He was handed a program on the rise, and the program was in the best shape that it was ever in, with 4 straight sub 100 rpi finishes preceding his tenure, and the program went significantly backward under his leadership.
And FWIW, Donlon just took an assistant coaching job at NW under Chris Collins, he is no longer at Michigan.
Last edited by ud2; 06-27-2017 at 11:43 PM..
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06-28-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I am not sure that Donlon was a great coach. He was handed a program on the rise, and the program was in the best shape that it was ever in, with 4 straight sub 100 rpi finishes preceding his tenure, and the program went significantly backward under his leadership.
And FWIW, Donlon just took an assistant coaching job at NW under Chris Collins, he is no longer at Michigan.
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Similar points could be made about BG's tenure, which I assume is DallasFlyer's point. WSU went 22-13, finished 2nd and made conference championship in Donlon's last season and he got canned. Brian Gregory went 22-14, below .500 record in conference/finished 8th his last season, and landed a Power 5 job.
Regardless, the article could pick dozens of jobs in any state and just runs with something -- the "UD is good with expectations, but is still the little guy in a crowded region" is something.
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06-28-2017, 09:15 AM
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Cincinnati, Xavier and Ohio State
It's not like Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Notre Dame, don't dip into this same pool. It's crowded to say the least.
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06-28-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by flyer2003
Similar points could be made about BG's tenure, which I assume is DallasFlyer's point. WSU went 22-13, finished 2nd and made conference championship in Donlon's last season and he got canned. Brian Gregory went 22-14, below .500 record in conference/finished 8th his last season, and landed a Power 5 job.
Regardless, the article could pick dozens of jobs in any state and just runs with something -- the "UD is good with expectations, but is still the little guy in a crowded region" is something.
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Donlon was given a pretty fair chance, but he did not get the job done. They gave him 6 years, it was a reasonable decision to fire him and move on.
1. Donlon went 0 for 3 in HLT championship games, including one at Nutter when WSU was favored by 6.
2. In terms of rpi, there is no question that the program slipped a bunch under BD.
Brownell rpi finishes: 72, 86, 93, 80.
Donlon rpi finishes: 124, 224, 130, 172, 263, 146
Nagy finished at 115 this year in his first year, an improvement over Donlon's final year at 146.
3. There is also no question that the program slipped in the league standings under BD.
BD finishes in HL: 6th, 8th, tied for 3rd, 3rd, 8th, tied for 2nd.
Brownell finishes: tied tor 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd
Nagy finished 5th this year.
Last edited by ud2; 06-28-2017 at 09:42 AM..
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06-28-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Canonball
Cincinnati, Xavier and Ohio State
It's not like Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Notre Dame, don't dip into this same pool. It's crowded to say the least.
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Butler, Pitt, and Illinois (all within 5 hours) also like to dip into the Ohio and Midwest recruiting grounds.
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06-28-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Donlon was given a pretty fair chance, but he did not get the job done. They gave him 6 years, it was a reasonable decision to fire him and move on.
1. Donlon went 0 for 3 in HLT championship games, including one at Nutter when WSU was favored by 6.
2. In terms of rpi, there is no question that the program slipped a bunch under BD.
Brownell rpi finishes: 72, 86, 93, 80.
Donlon rpi finishes: 124, 224, 130, 172, 263, 146
Nagy finished at 115 this year in his first year, an improvement over Donlon's final year at 146.
3. There is also no question that the program slipped in the league standings under BD.
BD finishes in HL: 6th, 8th, tied for 3rd, 3rd, 8th, tied for 2nd.
Brownell finishes: tied tor 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd
Nagy finished 5th this year.
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What's your point? My point is not whether Donlon deserved to be fired, but that he was fired while BG got a Power 5 job after finishing 11th, 7th, 7th, 2nd, 7th and 8th with a .500 conference record in his last 6 seasons in Dayton. In that regard, not a tough job.
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06-28-2017, 10:26 AM
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I think the bigger challenge is that the University of Dayton is a relatively small school and has a primarily Caucasian, Catholic student body and is located in a fairly conservative and not overly thriving, tertiary city.
That ought to heat things up.
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06-28-2017, 10:54 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by CE80
I think the bigger challenge is that the University of Dayton is a relatively small school and has a primarily Caucasian, Catholic student body and is located in a fairly conservative and not overly thriving, tertiary city.
That ought to heat things up.
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Very similar to Vanillanova...I mean Villanova.
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06-28-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Very similar to Vanillanova...I mean Villanova.
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I think an east coast city like Philly has a leg up on Dayton.
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06-28-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I think an east coast city like Philly has a leg up on Dayton.
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Doesn't mean the school's as diversified as the city.
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06-28-2017, 08:07 PM
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I attended grad school in Philadelphia (Penn) for four years. I rarely visited the city and never enjoyed the historical aspects of Phila.. You have little money, no time, and very little energy. The location of the city and its' social draw is insignificant. What was important was the school and the education/preparation it provided
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06-28-2017, 08:20 PM
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It would seem tosu would easily be the most challenging coaching job in the state hands down. In 13 years Thad Matta:
2 final four appearances
3 elite 8 appearances
7 Big Ten Title Games
9 NCAA Tournaments
NIT Title
5 Regular season Big Ten titles
4 Big Ten Tournament titles
and the dude gets fired.
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06-28-2017, 08:55 PM
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I Will take my own stab at this because just to keep this conversation alive. Keep in mind some of this is just to brew some controversy.
Illinois - DePaul
High expectations of the Meyer Era's make the city think this school should excel. Only cowards and Losers live in the past. A new facility will help but the lack of a consistent fan base will always make it difficult. Not too mention there isn't a college feel and for some recruits that's important. Couple this with a surging NU program and it it even more difficult to win in Chi-Town
Iowa - Iowa State
Alumni at ISU cling to the Johnny Orr era in a conference that always tough. Couple this with limited in state recruits. Finally, the best players in the state typically ends up some where other than ISU or Iowa for that matter.
Ohio - Dayton
A rabid fan base is loyal to a solid program. With OSU, UC, XU Louisville, IU, KU within a couple of hours, recruiting in state kids is tough really tough . Not too mention Akron, Toledo, BGSU, OU all compete in the MAC taking away some depth of what UD can recruit.
Pennsylvania - There's no doubt it's Penn St. A football school first in a tough conference make this a train wreck no matter who's coaching. 'Cuse, Villanova, Pitt, Temple, St Joe all have had more success in bball.
Indiana - Purdue
The post Keady era has been tough. Notre Dame and Butler have been strong for a while now. IU is a blue blood program. Even Valpo has some name recognition.
Texas - Texas
Big expectations make this a tough program for any sport. With the population shift Texas should be winning more than they have. If Smart gets Smart he moves on here soon and Texas has to scramble to keep up with Baylor, SMU, Texas Tech, TCU for basketball supremacy.
California - It's SDSU now that Steve Fischer has retired. USC, Cal, Stanford, UCLA seem to get the lion share of recruits. It will be tough for SDSU to compete for recruits in the post Fischer era.
North Carolina -With the looming retirements of Coach K and Roy W it's still difficult to not to see NC S always being in a me too position. With Wake, UNC Greensboro Davidson also in the mix it's just never going to be an easy school to win at.
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06-30-2017, 01:15 PM
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Anyone else notice that four A-10 teams were on that list?
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07-05-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick
Anyone else notice that four A-10 teams were on that list?
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It is not surprising and it is the primary reason UD would be considered such a tough coaching job.
It is not that winning is not important for any coach to keep his job but it is that the expectations at UD that we be competitive with the power five conferences. If Wright State wins in the Horizon league that is more than good enough for it. If Toledo or Miami or whoever wins in the MAC that is good enough. But even if Dayton were to dominate the A10 it would not be good enough. We expect Dayton to be competitive with every conference in the country.
For the Coach this means that while he needs to be competitive with all the power five conferences when it comes to the recruiting process UD is considered by most recruits as Mid Major.
This does make it a tough gig for any coach because he must be a better coach than his peers because he either must recruit higher than his expected level or coach a team that is player per player less talented than the teams he is expected to beat or both. Sure he will have a fan base and administration to support him in his quest but it will still be tough.
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