3 Red Scare Guys

[Beatty Town Coach]

3 Red Scare Guys currently standing behind baseline at UD Arena heckling Xavier as they came out for practice. Arena officials wanting to put an end to it, but both the local and national media came over to interview red scar guys, admins stood there not knowing what to do or how to deal with it.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[lhsgolf19]

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 6m

Dayton fans chanting "Let's go Flyers " at #Xavier . pic.twitter.com/1BJSCnpyqF

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 5m

Now it's "Let's go Wolfpack."

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 2m

Not going to tell you what else they're saying. Asinine.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[lhsgolf19]

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 1m

Justin Martin just said something to one the hecklers and one said sorry. And then they started chanting again.

HAHA

[Beatty Town Coach]

I laughed hard a couple times while they were doing it, couldn't help it, but Chris Mack and another assistant stared over at me with the look.

[Sit_Down_Digger]

Why aren't these guys at Flanagans enjoying St. Patricks day? They must be saving the good heckles for Christie Hester. Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life Red Scare.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[Fudd]

Those three are really showing initiative.

[THirt]

I teared up a little when I read about these fine young men carrying on the tradition of excellence at UD.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rollo]

Post a photo...if any of these 3 are in my QA class I'll give them a 100% on tomorrow's exam.

[THirt]

Originally Posted by rollo Post a photo...if any of these 3 are in my QA class I'll give them a 100% on tomorrow's exam.

Dunno if this link will work: https://mobile.twitter.com/slrussell/status/445703112008151040
Posted via Mobile Device

[Brian2]

Originally Posted by rollo Post a photo...if any of these 3 are in my QA class I'll give them a 100% on tomorrow's exam.

I believe one is Matt Kavanaugh.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by THirt Dunno if this link will work: https://mobile.twitter.com/slrussell...03112008151040 Posted via Mobile Device

The link works...After reading the comments on this link from the X fans, lets just say if the situation ever arises again their is a darn good chance a 40 some year old guy (ME) might just show up, paint a UD on his big fat belly, and be louder than any of these three. Screw X

[ud2]

The pic, along with a few other related pics, is on Shannon's Twitter page.

http://twitter.com/slrussell

[tirebiter]

Great big smile on my face.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by Brian2 I believe one is Matt Kavanaugh.

Not even close resemblance.

[flyerfanatic86]

Hilarious. Well done.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

A few years back, there were about 10 X guys sitting near the UD bench, heckling our WOMEN's team during a game. X officials did nothing about it. No one cried about that.

[Fudd]

Ha. The X fans are incensed over those three students. The PMThor guy is posting the photos on the New Big East board and explaining to a bunch of bewildered DePaul fans how unfair it is to have UD fans at their tournament game.

[Brian2]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Not even close resemblance.

It obviously went right over your head.

[426 Kiefaber]

This is beautiful!

[UD90]

Those big meanies. How could they chant for their own team while watching another team practice. Masterful "heckling"

It's okay Shannon. Don't cry. Tomorrow night there will be a sea of Red chanting for NC State

[NCkevi]

Better to be a Dayton Flyer than a muskie Crier

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by Sit_Down_Digger Why aren't these guys at Flanagans enjoying St. Patricks day? They must be saving the good heckles for Christie Hester. Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life Red Scare.

My guess is they probably already did, and just decided to take the party on the road.

Give 'em hell, boys!

FUXU.

[Fudd]

Goooooooooooooo Ennnnnnnnnnnnn Ceeeeeeeeee Staaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

I wonder if we will hear that one tomorrow?

[Windy City Flyer]

I think the reaction of the Xavier Player is hilarious.......Check out the message board on Holy Land of Hoops


http://www.holylandofhoops.com/forum...=3383&start=30

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[priceg75]

After reading their boards over the past day, they are so obsessed with making the team, the town, the arena and everything that has to do with Dayton look bad that it makes THEM look bad.

Why don't they just enjoy the competitive advantage they've had on the floor over the past 25 years and let their play do the talking? I think we all know the answer to that question. And until they develop something that resembles class, I will root for them to lose every single game they play, even if we end up in the same conference as them.

Go Wolfpack.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach I laughed hard a couple times while they were doing it, couldn't help it, but Chris Mack and another assistant stared over at me with the look.

Were you able to duck the basketball he threw at your head?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by priceg75 After reading their boards over the past day, they are so obsessed with making the team, the town, the arena and everything that has to do with Dayton look bad that it makes THEM look bad. Why don't they just enjoy the competitive advantage they've had on the floor over the past 25 years and let their play do the talking? I think we all know the answer to that question. And until they develop something that resembles class, I will root for them to lose every single game they play, even if we end up in the same conference as them. Go Wolfpack.

Playing at UD is in their head. When Chris Mack even brings it up at his presser yesterday, you know it's messin' with them. He said X travels well and many in blue will make the trip up I-75, but he expects alot of Dayton fans rooting the other way.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by priceg75 After reading their boards over the past day, they are so obsessed with making the team, the town, the arena and everything that has to do with Dayton look bad that it makes THEM look bad. Why don't they just enjoy the competitive advantage they've had on the floor over the past 25 years and let their play do the talking? I think we all know the answer to that question. And until they develop something that resembles class, I will root for them to lose every single game they play, even if we end up in the same conference as them. Go Wolfpack.

Priceg75, the first part of your post causes me to think of the recent comment of one more person who obviously thinks his feces has no aroma, the now-much-reviled Coach K. When you reach a point where you can no longer build-up that which you choose to support, you resort to tearing-down that which opposes you. Nice - and classless.

And why don't they just enjoy their long-term competitive advantage? Because, for the past 2 years (since Gangsta-Gate), we've caught-up to and have passed them (if only by a little). Last year, neither school played in the post-season. This year, we get to go straight to a Second Round game, but they have to earn their way in through a play-in game ON OUR HOME COURT. What will next year hold? Who knows? But at this moment, we are their equal if not their superior (again, if only by the slightest bit), and after all this time, they can't stand it!

And I'm loving it!

[tom]

I was at UD in the 60's and I can't recall any of the current fan behavior as standard. Of course my memory may be tarnished by age. But I recall the Miami student body giving Don May a lengthy standing ovation when he was introduced in his last game on their home court. That is the kind of sportsmanship from fans I remember. In the early 70's, I attended my first UD-Marquette game in Milwaukee and was surprised how boorish and vulgar their fans were and thinking I'm glad UD was not that way. Maybe the world would be so much more pleasant if we rooted for rather than against.

[number21]

Originally Posted by tom I was at UD in the 60's and I can't recall any of the current fan behavior as standard. Of course my memory may be tarnished by age. But I recall the Miami student body giving Don May a lengthy standing ovation when he was introduced in his last game on their home court. That is the kind of sportsmanship from fans I remember. In the early 70's, I attended my first UD-Marquette game in Milwaukee and was surprised how boorish and vulgar their fans were and thinking I'm glad UD was not that way. Maybe the world would be so much more pleasant if we rooted for rather than against.

Not gonna happen on this board. This board is in no way indicative of Dayton Flyer fans. I am betting tonight our Arena will be X house. If the game gets tight late you might see a little NCST rooting but I don't think its going to be a home game for NCST.

[priceg75]

Sounds like there are still some tickets left, so it's not like the X fans were climbing all over themselves to drive up here.

[Medford]

Its Mack's reaction to this that leaves me shaking my head. I remember about a decade ago when the A10 tournament was coming to UD, John Chaney made the remark about not liking that the tournament was moved out of Philly and into the "sticks" Redscare responded by dressing up in farmer "gear" and trying to poke fun at Cheany. How did he respond? In the absolute, most perfect way an oppossing coach could that stuck his foot in his mouth, he went over to the student section, borrowed one of the student's straw hats, and put it on his head while joking with the students. He diffused any hard feeling with one simple gesture.

Rather than glaring over at the students heckling Xavier's practice, Mack should have simply walked over, asked them how they were enjoying practice and said something along the lines of "I know this is probably going to be a tougher environment for us than a normal play in game representative, we're certainly not going to win the hearts of the "neutral fan". Can you do me a favor, come down to the end of the cour that we're practicing on and make as much noise as you can, I want my kids to figure out how to deal with a little bit of what we might see tomorrow night."

the best way to deal with people acting like fools, is to join in their tom foolery. Glaring and making snide remarks only gives them the reaction they're looking for. Show them that "you're one of them and this is all in good fun" and the tom foolery will quickly fade away.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CraSch]

Apparently I look at things differently. Yes, I agree our 3 Men of Red Scare heckling them is funny, as is X's reaction. But doesn't the Red Scare showing up, and this thread, say that UD is obsessed with X??

My way of handling it is this...I completely ignore X. I'll go to the game to root for NC State because 1. I've always somewhat liked them (always root for them over Duke and UNC) and it's Archie's alma mater. I will not actively root against or heckle X because X DOES NOT MATTER!!!! And I do NOT waste my time and energy on things/people/places of NO value to me. And X has NO value to me!

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[DetroitFlyer]

The very nature of a rivalry is that the other team matters.... I think you more accurately described the relationship with Wright State.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by CraSch Apparently I look at things differently. Yes, I agree our 3 Men of Red Scare heckling them is funny, as is X's reaction. But doesn't the Red Scare showing up, and this thread, say that UD is obsessed with X?

I think this thread is more about how 3 fans managed to get the attention of
The x coaching staff
the x players
most of the online x fan base
and managed get most of them riled up as well

Lets not forget the only reason we're discussing this is because x fans took to the internets with their outrage - had their photos not been placed in the twitter verse most if not all of us would never have been aware of this!

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by CraSch Apparently I look at things differently. Yes, I agree our 3 Men of Red Scare heckling them is funny, as is X's reaction. But doesn't the Red Scare showing up, and this thread, say that UD is obsessed with X??

Maybe if it was 100 guys, but 3 guys screams 3 guys bored with nothing to do rather than obsession.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by CraSch Apparently I look at things differently. Yes, I agree our 3 Men of Red Scare heckling them is funny, as is X's reaction. But doesn't the Red Scare showing up, and this thread, say that UD is obsessed with X?? My way of handling it is this...I completely ignore X. I'll go to the game to root for NC State because 1. I've always somewhat liked them (always root for them over Duke and UNC) and it's Archie's alma mater. I will not actively root against or heckle X because X DOES NOT MATTER!!!! And I do NOT waste my time and energy on things/people/places of NO value to me. And X has NO value to me!

Cuts both ways. Pretty apparent X is still obsessed with UD:

http://www.musketeermadness.com/boar...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[UDEE79]

It screams three guys drinking green beer since 5 am realizing that X had an open practice in our gym.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by NCkevi I think this thread is more about how 3 fans managed to get the attention of The x coaching staff the x players most of the online x fan base and managed get most of them riled up as well Lets not forget the only reason we're discussing this is because x fans took to the internets with their outrage - had their photos not been placed in the twitter verse most if not all of us would never have been aware of this!

Great point...not exactly a "Streisand Effect" but very similar.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 It screams three guys drinking green beer since 5 am realizing that X had an open practice in our gym.

and knowing that x fans love to dish it out but cry like 2 year olds when it comes to taking it

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by NCkevi and knowing that x fans love to dish it out but cry like 2 year olds when it comes to taking it

And then they try to sell that pile about UD being a ****ehole etc...which is so laughable. Their campus is more sterile than the eunuchs that guarded the vestal virgins and more boring than gift opening at a bridal shower.

I can recall many X'ers hanging in the ghetto back in my UD days...but I never remember anyone in our gang ever saying, "Hey let's go party down at Xavier this weekend.".... (can't say the same about OU...had some good times down there....)

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Ghetto UD GHETTO Student neighborhood surrounding the campus of the University of Dayton. Unique to UD, the Ghetto gets its name from the nickname students gave the depression and war-period row houses the university owns and rents to Dayton students during their course of study. The landlord arrangement and compact nature of the neighborhood homes create a camaraderie among students outside of class that provides personal space away from classrooms and on-campus dorms. Parties and celebrations on Ghetto streets are legendary and have made David Letterman's Top-10 List. A significant effort has been made in recent years to curb hooliganism and renovate older homes.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 Were you able to duck the basketball he threw at your head?

Yeah, I never thought about it, but I was in grave danger. If I had thunk it before hand, I would have put-on a big nose with a basketball plastered to it. Hope UD/NCAA officials keep the balls out of Mack's hands tonight; but then, he has none anyway.

[shocka43]

Well done.

[CraSch]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer The very nature of a rivalry is that the other team matters.... I think you more accurately described the relationship with Wright State.

What rivalry? Not in our league. Not playing them. their used to be one, but I'm not wasting time on a team that is NOT an opponent at this time. Might as well go heckle Notre Dame and DePaul because they used to be rivals. Wouldn't make sense to me, but you can if you wish.

Wright State is a different issue, and I don't remember anyone going to the Horizon League Final to heckle WSU and then have a big thread on it. nice non sequiter

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by CraSch Might as well go heckle Notre Dame....

FWIW.....I still do.

[pmcmullen]

I don't have any hatred or an obsession with X - I just want them to lose...
Against NC State tonight...
Against everyone they play next year...
And pretty much the same until the end of time...

Tonight, I'm an NC State fan.

For the record, those three kids are AWESOME!

[priceg75]

The thing that kills me is that some act like we are classless for rooting against X, as though the UD fans bought tickets expressly for the purpose of rooting against them. When in fact, we just happen to already have bought thousands of tickets and would already be at the game anyway. I seriously doubt anyone is buying tickets just to root against them. It is just a happy accident that we will be able to do so. Would frankly rather it be this way than to have UD in the First Four... because we had a good enough regular season to not have to earn our way out of the First Round.

[jack72]

With all the bashing of Red Scare on this site it is great to see them do something with great spirit.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Cuts both ways. Pretty apparent X is still obsessed with UD: http://www.musketeermadness.com/boar...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

And yet here we are

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Maybe I should start another thread for this, but X fans are an absolute joke. I just did a quick search for tickets for the game tonight on the ticketmaster web site. I was looking for 8 seats together, which is the maximum amount ticket master would let me search for at one time. Numerous areas in the lower arena. 300 sections row H in the corners. Most of the 400 level sections as well. No idea how many tickets remain, thought I had read around 1,000, but my hunch is that number might be low based upon how easy it was to find 8 seats together in multiple locations.

Why have you not sold out the 4 or 5K of tickets that were not sold before selection Sunday? I recall 4 to 5K of UD Fans traveling to your city in previous seasons to watch us clobber both UK and UL at neutral site games during the month of December. This is the big dance we are talking about for tonight.

Put up or shut up!

And wear Red tonight and BE LOUD!

[rollo]

Mack offered to buy tickets for the first 100 _avier students who showed up at their ticket office this morning. Not sure how many showed up.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I just returned from the mail box. My high school junior received his weekly piece of junk mail today from X. They are agressive in the marketing department.

Of course he will not know he recieved this today, as it is already in the trash.

And if he decides to go to X, his younger sibling will inherit our double wide someday!

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Maybe I should start another thread for this, but X fans are an absolute joke. I just did a quick search for tickets for the game tonight on the ticketmaster web site. I was looking for 8 seats together, which is the maximum amount ticket master would let me search for at one time. Numerous areas in the lower arena. 300 sections row H in the corners. Most of the 400 level sections as well. No idea how many tickets remain, thought I had read around 1,000, but my hunch is that number might be low based upon how easy it was to find 8 seats together in multiple locations. Why have you not sold out the 4 or 5K of tickets that were not sold before selection Sunday? I recall 4 to 5K of UD Fans traveling to your city in previous seasons to watch us clobber both UK and UL at neutral site games during the month of December. This is the big dance we are talking about for tonight. Put up or shut up! And wear Red tonight and BE LOUD!

Agree. I already have tickets but just checked Ticketmaster for four tickets. There are seats available in Section 201 and 223. Where the heck are all the X fans??? I thought they would sell out the place. If UD was in the First Four in Cincy that place would have sold out Sunday night. And I will be wearing red tonight and I will be loud!

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Where the heck are all the X fans???

Complaining about how our three fans where louder than all the X fans that were there to support them...

Also, I'll be wearing a blue UD shirt. Please read the front before you harass anyone wearing blue. It is a light blue shirt though. If it is a dark blue shirt, fire away!

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by CraSch Apparently I look at things differently. Yes, I agree our 3 Men of Red Scare heckling them is funny, as is X's reaction. But doesn't the Red Scare showing up, and this thread, say that UD is obsessed with X?? . . .

No.

Three [slightly inebriated] college kids and a handful of internet posts doesn't really say anything about UD.

___________________
You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament!
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Agree. I already have tickets but just checked Ticketmaster for four tickets. There are seats available in Section 201 and 223. Where the heck are all the X fans??? I thought they would sell out the place. If UD was in the First Four in Cincy that place would have sold out Sunday night. And I will be wearing red tonight and I will be loud!

X fans don't travel as well as UD fans, UD has a larger fan base than X, which is why UD's near annual underachievement is so frustrating to me.

X didn't come close to selling out their home game vs. Georgetown earlier this year.

[ud2]

The UD game at Cintas was almost always by far the loudest/most intense home game of the year for X, there were almost always a lot of people wearing red in the crowd. Even the X vs. UC game was almost always not as loud. There might have been only a couple X vs. UC games at Cintas that were louder than the UD games at Cintas.

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Not to defend _avier fans, but each school does get a small allotment of tickets in the lower arena (a couple hundred maybe?). Based on observation from previous years, it's not a large quantity, but those would likely fill first.
However, based on A10 tournament attendance, _avier fans don't travel. Even in our lowest down years, UD always outnumbered _avier in AC and Philly.
Also, you can't compare _avier's fan base to UD. _avier's undergrad enrollment is only about 4500 students compared to UD's 8000. That's nearly 1000 more UD alumni produced per year. It's no wonder that their coaching staff looks to Dayton to wife a spouse. A far better selection. They didn't have their own arena until 14 years ago and when they finally built one, they went small. Cintas Center doesn't have the capacity to hold UD's season ticket holders. UD averages over 2000 more tickets sold per game than _aviers facility can hold. _avier didn't become relevant on a national level until the 1980s, where UD has been around for 110 years and known on the national stage since the 1950s. That's 30+ years worth of national fan base building.
I guess what I'm saying is go easy on the _avier fan bans. They are small, relatively immature, and do not have the life experience to know how to support a basketball program. They may reach UD's level some day, but for now, they are still learning and need good role models. Thankfully, _avier has UD to look up to and will get to experience how a big time program hosts the biggest tournament in a first class facility.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.