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View Poll Results: Does the shot count and who gets the ball??
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WSU shot counts, UD's ball - spot throw-in under basket
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10 |
45.45% |
WSU shot counts, possession goes to WSU with alternating-possession arrow
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1 |
4.55% |
Shot doesn't count, whistle = dead ball, possession to WSU with alt-possession arrow
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5 |
22.73% |
Shot doesn't count, whistle = dead ball, WSU spot throw-in on sidelines
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6 |
27.27% |
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06-01-2015, 09:11 AM
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You Make the Call - accidental whistle! Does the shot count?!
The Global Warming extreme winter storm that hit last month hasn't subsided and the Gem City is buried in 3' of snow. Fortunately for the world, Al Gore is forever stuck in Oslo, untouchable by every one of his 348 Hollywood friends, each of whom have send a private jet his way for a potential rescue. Out of desperation, Al has kept the engines in each of his 62 limousines running...but even the extra CO2 hasn't affected the local Oslo temperatures...so the fatman sits, sweating, with his Oslo harem, eating caviar and sipping Champaigne.
Back here in the Midwest, our Flyers sit - on Martin Luther King Day - with no opponent to play as the snow has prevented their buy-game opponent, DeVry Institute of Culinary Science, from boarding their busses in Atlanta and making to trip North. So out of desperation, and with a subtle push from Piqua66, Tim Wabler makes the call to Fairborn and invites our friends to the east, THE Wright State University, to take their place. They generously accept and miraculously and immediately upon this agreement, the skies open, the sun appears and within hours the roads are cleared and the sold-out Gem City Jam is on...but not in time to get refs to the game!
So once again, UD begs for volunteers. Still upset he wasn't paid for his first 'volunteer' game, Figgie passes. CE80 and Gazoo, feeling good about their YMtC answers the past few weeks, immediately don the stripes and grab a whistle and to nobody's surprise, Clayton - the self proclaimed King of Kings - joins his friends for another epic workout.
And what a game it is! With 2:33 remaining and our Flyers up 82-80, WSU's Vest hits a 3 putting the Raiders up by 1! While the ball is in the air, a whistle is heard coming from Clayton's direction. Immediately the action stops and 13,422 fans, players, coaches, cheerleaders and band members look his way for the call. Slightly and royally embarrassed, the King of Kings shrugs his shoulders and says 'oops'...as apparently he accidentally blew the whistle while trying to catch his breath!
So with the clock stopped and all eyes and tv cameras on the zebras, a huddle is formed by the defensive refs as they try and figure out what to do!
CE80 says 'no shot', the ball must be dead immediately and Wright State should be awarded the ball on the wing closest to where the shot was taken.
Gazoo says 'no harm, no call' and the shot counts and it's UD's ball under the basket.
The King of Kings says 'no basket' and the accidental whistle blowing stops play and goes to the alternating-possession arrow, which favors WSU.
Gazoo, hearing KoK's position, now says the basket should count and the ball should also go to WSU with the possession arrow.
CE80, totally confused, says 'no basket' since the whistle stopped play and says it's WSU ball on the wing, no alternating-possession...just an innocent mistake.
In other words, none of them know what to call...which is why you're here!
So make the call...
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Last edited by rollo; 06-01-2015 at 10:45 AM..
Reason: gotta get gazoo off my royal *ss
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06-01-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
so the fatman sits, sweating, with his Oslo harem, eating caviar and sipping Champaign.
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Is he sipping a city in Illinois through a straw? It must taste terrible. And that's a large straw from Oslo.
Champagne = drink, strictly from the Champagne region of France
Champaign = city
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06-01-2015, 10:21 AM
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A - although I would have guessed that UD would be allowed to freely travel the baseline for the throw-in.
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06-01-2015, 10:33 AM
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Shot SHOULD count as it was taken before the whistle.
I voted A, UD ball, but would be disappointed if it's B, alternating possession. If an inadvertent whistle triggers alternating possession, that's a fault in the rulebook. The ball should remain in possession of the team that had it at the time of the whistle. In this case, it was in the air on an attempt. It went in, hence possession goes to the defense.
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06-01-2015, 10:47 AM
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The call I made in the game is the same one I make now. No basket. Raider's ball for a throw in on the side line.
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06-01-2015, 11:00 AM
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A whistle, unlike the buzzer for the shot clock or end of the half, stops play immediately, regardless of if the ball is in the air as part of a shot attempt or not.
No basket and jump ball (alternating possession), since the ball was not in anyone possession when the whistle blew.
C is your answer.
Or am I allowed to not answer, since I have become the head referee / target of your royal (pain in the butt) abuse?
Sincerely,
The King of Kings Clayton!
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06-01-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
A whistle, unlike the buzzer for the shot clock or end of the half, stops play immediately, regardless of if the ball is in the air as part of a shot attempt or not.
Sincerely,
The King of Kings Clayton!
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If this were the case then there would never be an "and-1."
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06-01-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cj
If this were the case then there would never be an "and-1."
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The action still stops immediately on a whistle on an "and 1", but the shot is considered a continuation of the play, thus it counts.
Inadvertant whistles no such luck for the shooting team.
I think
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06-01-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
A whistle, unlike the buzzer for the shot clock or end of the half, stops play immediately, regardless of if the ball is in the air as part of a shot attempt or not.
No basket and jump ball (alternating possession), since the ball was not in anyone possession when the whistle blew.
C is your answer.
Or am I allowed to not answer, since I have become the head referee / target of your royal (pain in the butt) abuse?
Sincerely,
The King of Kings Clayton!
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Isn't the ball in possession of the shooting team until the other team takes possession? Like in a shot clock situation where a team shoots the ball but misses the rim, the other team bobbles the rebound but never takes possession, the shooting team grabs the ball but the shot clock expires.
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06-01-2015, 12:45 PM
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Since I am O-fer on my YMTC calls, I'll continue my use of common sense.
Wouldn't this be in the same vain as thought a coach called time from the bench? Players play to the whistle...whistle blows just after the shot leaves the shooter's fingers. No shot, ball out of bounds to shooting team on the wing...
Again, with that being common sense it's almost guaranteed to be wrong. But that's my final answer.
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06-01-2015, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
A whistle, unlike the buzzer for the shot clock or end of the half, stops play immediately, regardless of if the ball is in the air as part of a shot attempt or not.
No basket and jump ball (alternating possession), since the ball was not in anyone possession when the whistle blew.
C is your answer.
Or am I allowed to not answer, since I have become the head referee / target of your royal (pain in the butt) abuse?
Sincerely,
The King of Kings Clayton!
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I figure that has to be the right answer, but I could not overcome my application of common sense as well. If it's totally unfair it should not be a rule that the ref's can't use common sense to overcome.
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06-01-2015, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I figure that has to be the right answer, but I could not overcome my application of common sense as well. If it's totally unfair it should not be a rule that the ref's can't use common sense to overcome.
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Common sense? What is that? Seems as though most of the world has none anymore.
I fear my answer above is wrong, since Rollo thanked my post to make you all think it is right to get others to vote wrong so he can brag about how right he is and how wrong we all are. I think I know what I just said.
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06-01-2015, 01:18 PM
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06-01-2015, 03:44 PM
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Well you know me, I will be wrong but I will keep trying!! Sorry, I don't agree with any of the options. I was a high school referee, so I go with the high school rule, which is normally wrong for NCAA. The basket counts, it is UD's ball, but it is not a spot throw-in. They can run the baseline after the made FG.
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06-01-2015, 07:22 PM
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duh, most of your setup to this situation is realistic except one. there is no way on this earth that WSU is that close to our beloved butt-whippers with less than 3 minutes to go in the game.
so the answer is, "get outta here".
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06-01-2015, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
duh, most of your setup to this situation is realistic except one. there is no way on this earth that WSU is that close to our beloved butt-whippers with less than 3 minutes to go in the game.
so the answer is, "get outta here".
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This officiating crew couldn't find their whistles with a Rule book and a search warrant, so what makes you think they couldn't accidentally keep WSU in the game?
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06-02-2015, 11:19 AM
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21 votes? Anonymous votes.
You so-called basketball experts are pathetic.
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06-02-2015, 03:38 PM
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I voted C, but I dare not consider myself a basketball expert. I can find many people to speak of my ignorance in many different topics.
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06-02-2015, 09:57 PM
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I couldn't find an answer where UD gets the ball or the points, so I used my sense of what's fair. The shot should count since the whistle did not affect it's flight. A lot of times the squeak of the sneakers sounds like a whistle to me anyway. No harm, play on.
What would have been an interesting noodlewater is if another ref whistled after the first whistle and called a foul on rebounding the shot if it missed. And then the rebounder got a technical for complaining. And then the coach got another technical from going apeshot.
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06-03-2015, 09:17 AM
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Maybe I need to quit the YMtC and just start holding Ref 101 classes because you guys and your answers/justifications give me Royal gas!
The correct call is:
The basket counts since the shot was released before the whistle. No brainer for those with Royal IQ's and who pay attention to the game!
After the inadvertent whistle, regardless of when/why/how it was blown, you always go to the possession arrow. The ball going in or out of the basket has nothing to do with the play...you follow the Rules!
So WSU gets the basket and the ball!
Fire away...
References: Rule 2.11.6.g, 2.11.7.g, 4.53.1a, 4.53.2.a&d
Rule 2 is definitions...Rule 4 is situations...
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06-03-2015, 09:26 AM
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Busy day today so no time to confirm if you are correct on your answer or not Prince Rollo, but given your record of being Royally WRONG, I will do some research in the next 48 hours to make sure we are keeping you honest.
Thanks for posting these to entertain us over the summer months.
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06-03-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Busy day today so no time to confirm if you are correct on your answer or not Prince Rollo, but given your record of being Royally WRONG, I will do some research in the next 48 hours to make sure we are keeping you honest.
Thanks for posting these to entertain us over the summer months.
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Prince Rollo may get another demotion. I am sure ClaytonFlyerFan will confirm this.
I think the correct call is - basket counts; Flyers ball. The alternating possession arrow is used only when no team is in possession. The team's (WSU's) possession does not end until the shot attempt either goes in or misses.
I found this. It is NFHS rules but I bet in this situation for NCAA is the same.
ACCIDENTAL WHISTLE
7.5.3 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle accidentally: (a) while A1 is dribbling and in player control; (b) while Team A is in control and passing among teammates; (c) while A1's unsuccessful try attempt is in flight; or (d) while A’s successful try attempt is in flight. RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (a) and (b), Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where the ball was when the whistle was accidentally sounded. In (c) and (d), the ball does not become dead until the try ends. In (c), since there is no team control when the ball becomes dead, the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure. In (d), since a goal has been scored by Team A, the ball is given to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. (7-4-4; 4-12-3,6; 4-36)
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06-03-2015, 02:03 PM
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2 correct answers???
Maybe I need a new casebook!
A different casebook was forwarded to me via PM with a different answer than the one I've been using...
Mine says what I said above...count the basket and go to the arrow.
The other says to credit WSU for the basket, ignore the inadvertent whistle and it's UD's ball under the basket with full use of the baseline! I've never heard of a situation - other than correctable errors - where a whistle can be ignored, so this is a first.
I either need better sources or a Royal Assistant! Any volunteers?!!!
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06-03-2015, 02:09 PM
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How about the person that sent you the link to the different casebook?
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06-03-2015, 02:14 PM
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As I was saying, I am now convinced the prince is just making this crap up to mess with all of us.
Given his inconsistency on this site, I sure hope I never see him actually officiating a game, it could get ugly!
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06-03-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Maybe I need to quit the YMtC and just start TAKING Ref 101 classes ...
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Fixed it for you.
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06-03-2015, 02:22 PM
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Better yet, I heard Walmart is hiring greeters, might be a better career for you at this point Rollo
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06-03-2015, 02:26 PM
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06-03-2015, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
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I love it when people who dish it out also take it in good fun.
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06-03-2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I love it when people who dish it out also take it in good fun.
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06-03-2015, 03:24 PM
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This is the rule from the 2013 NCAA Casebook, the newest one I can access online without buying one.
Inadvertent Whistle
A.R. 118. A1 is in the act of shooting and B1 attempts to defend the try.
The official, in anticipation of a foul that was not committed,
inadvertently blows his or her whistle:
(1) Before the release of the ball; or
(2) After the try for goal was released hit the ring, but was unsuccessful.
RULING:
(1) Since A1 did not release the ball and was in control
of the ball when the inadvertent whistle was blown, Team A shall be
awarded the ball at a designated spot nearest to where the dead ball
occurred with no reset of the shot clock.
(2) The inadvertent whistle occurred when there was no team control.
When the try was unsuccessful, the ball is awarded to the team
entitled to the alternating-possession arrow at a spot nearest to where
the try was unsuccessful and the shot clock shall be reset.
When the try for goal was successful, the inadvertent whistle shall be
ignored and the team not credited with the score shall be awarded the
ball at the end line with that team being entitled to run the end line.
(Rule 2-11.6.g, 2-11.7.g, 4-53.1.a and 4-53.2.a and .d)
42 RULE 4 / DEFINITIONS
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06-03-2015, 03:36 PM
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Based on all the positive responses to this thread, it looks like we might have 5 officials for next week's YMtC! Not that 5 will help me get it 100% right...but it certainly can't hurt?
Or can it?!
Maybe I should run it past Clayton, the King of Kings, first thing Monday morning!
Maybe not...
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06-03-2015, 04:17 PM
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A.R. 91. After A1's try is released and is in flight, an official inadvertently blows the whistle and then the shot-clock horn sounds. How is play resumed when the shot: 1. Is successful; 2. Does not strike the ring or flange; or 3. Strikes the ring or flange but does not enter the basket?"
RULING 1: Count the goal. Ignore the inadvertent whistle, which was blown when there was no team control, and the sounding of the shot-clock horn. The team not credited with the score shall be allowed to run the end line. (Rule 4-20, 7-4.16 and 7-4.6) 2: Violation. Ignore the inadvertent whistle and resume play by awarding the ball to Team B at the spot nearest to where the shot-clock violation occurred. The violation takes precedence over the inadvertent whistle. (Rule 4-20, 9-12.4 and 7-4.1) 3: Play shall be resumed by the alternating-possession procedure and the shot clock shall be reset. (Rule 4-20, 4-27.1.a, 7-4.16, 6-4.1.g and 2-11.6.g)
I found this online from a 2015 Quiz site.
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06-03-2015, 04:20 PM
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Just 5, it looks like 10 got it right but the spot throw-in was wrong.
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06-03-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
Just 5, it looks like 10 got it right but the spot throw-in was wrong.
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None of the 4 poll answers were correct so everyone got it wrong.
You build bridge. Bridge fall down. No partial credit.
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06-03-2015, 07:25 PM
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King Rollo accepts responsibility for the confusion with this answer...seems like there are more than one Casebooks floating around. After looking at a couple, I like the one that was forwarded to me by cj and will cross-compare situations and calls before posting starting next week.
As with reffing's 1st unwritten rule, the most important thing is to get the call right, so I love the dialogue we have, even if I'm wrong. So if you're into this kind of stuff, it's interesting. If not, you'll just have to take my royal word for it!
Right Clayton???!
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06-03-2015, 08:30 PM
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When all is said and done, I think the correct answer is the one we would all say is the fair/logical call. I am good with that.
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06-03-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
As with reffing's 1st unwritten rule, the most important thing is to get the call right, so I love the dialogue we have, even if I'm wrong. So if you're into this kind of stuff, it's interesting. If not, you'll just have to take my royal word for it!
Right Clayton???!
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Based on what I witnessed tonight, Prince Rollo is indeed the King of being wrong on the court.
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06-03-2015, 11:06 PM
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Rollo,
I don't really care who is right or wrong, I just love seeing the back and forth and trying to see where I went wrong. Kind of like my first Business Law course. I was usually wrong, but I enjoyed the debate.
Keep them coming!
(Like, what if someone complains during the game that the ball is partially deflated...)
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06-04-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Based on what I witnessed tonight, Prince Rollo is indeed the King of being wrong on the court.
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The King of Kings was treated to a Royal game of officiating last night as the True King was assigned his daughter's summer league game at C'ville.
Unlike the KoK, the Princess of Princesses has discipline, understands the game, anticipates well, has a good shot as well as the sharpest elbows on the court. Add that to some good coaching (and #23), and she needed no Royal help winning by +20.
As for her father...no golden whistle for him. But I am looking for a Royal Rulebook! Father's Day is right around the corner and a more appropriate present for his Royal Lowness does not exist.!
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I shaved my balls for this?
Last edited by rollo; 06-04-2015 at 08:16 AM..
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Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-05-2015, 07:21 PM
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Kind of like my first Business Law course.[/QUOTE]
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