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  #1  
Old 03-04-2017, 10:45 PM
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Start Baby D

This is crazy. Everything was clicking. Baby D gets in the flow of the game and Kyle comes in within a few minutes and everything seems to hum. Then on Senior night he changes it, I figured just to honor KD. But then he sticks with it and something looked eerily familiar to the early season holes we dug ourselves into.

While I think it has little effect on KD, it has a great positive effect on Baby D and that should dictate it. Heck, that screen that that Baby D turned around and ran right into was ridiculous. He needs to be in the game to start, it just works better that way.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:53 PM
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I hear what you are saying, but at this point lets just hope he is healthy enough to play next Friday.

And to the first person who want's to ask for an update on Darrell's health I'm just going to go ahead and give you Archie's quote so you don't have to ask.

"Darrell is day to day and we hope he'll be able to play Friday, but we're not sure right now." Archie

Translated: You will find out on Friday at around noon when Jablonski tweets if Darrell is warming up and then when he actually comes into the game.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:42 PM
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What did DD injure?
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:45 PM
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He took a shot in the open court on a screen. I didn't think it was enough to affect him but they may have put him in the concussion protocol. He was really struggling defensively tonight as well.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
What did DD injure?
I'd say his neck or a concussion. They never really showed a good replay but he looked wobbly after running into Cavanaugh.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:18 AM
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I was there and watched him after the altercation for the rest of the night. He kept holding the left side of his face (jaw?) and lowering his head in pain. I was surprised that he kept participating in the timeout huddles.
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Old 03-05-2017, 02:05 AM
Kevinob15 Kevinob15 is offline
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If starting has that big of an effect on you mentally then maybe he shouldn't be playing that much. These players need to be mentally strong. We do not have room for those who can't mentally handle coming off the bench. Time to grow up and start acting like a D1 basketball player contributing off the bench. Toughen up this is a big boy league.
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  #8  
Old 03-05-2017, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
If starting has that big of an effect on you mentally then maybe he shouldn't be playing that much. These players need to be mentally strong. We do not have room for those who can't mentally handle coming off the bench. Time to grow up and start acting like a D1 basketball player contributing off the bench. Toughen up this is a big boy league.
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It makes the fricken team better because it makes Baby D better. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face, at this point in the season, over some macho ideals. For crying out loud, the team was playing better this way, why change it? Sometimes it's a chemistry thing, if it works, you go with it.

Here's my theory on this. All players are a little out of sorts when they're out there at the beginning of the game. That's why it's common that both teams miss scoring on a lot of possessions as they get a feel for the game. Then the players get that feel and things start jelling. Then Baby D comes on to the floor and has to get oriented while his opponents have already gotten through that awkward period. It's not as important to KD because if you want to be honest with yourself, KD doesn't look to score early in the game. I'll bet if you look at all players on the team, he's the least likely to put up a shot in the first 5 minutes he's out there. Baby D on the other hand is a more effective offensive player in those first minutes because as soon as there's a 3 point opportunity, he's going to take it.

When I speak of getting oriented, I'm speaking offense, not defense. That's why it's better to have a player who shoots mainly from the outside in there getting acclimated to the game at the same time as the other starters. KD can come in there and go right to doing what he does best at any point in the game. His shots are from point blank range and as I said before, it doesn't take as much to get oriented on D which is his forte.

But you have a point to make and that's much more important than doing what's best toward winning I guess.
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  #9  
Old 03-05-2017, 04:29 AM
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As long as Kevin is happy Kyle started, that's all that matters! Team and winning take a backseat to Kevin's happiness.

There may be a reason why KD started over DD that we don't know about. I, personally, don't give a rats behind who starts, as long as the TEAM finishes with a W. It seems as if some on here take it as a personal affront if their favorite guys don't start.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:43 AM
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I always figured DD started because he's a rhythm shooter. He gets into a groove after warm ups and gets the muscle memory from shooting. By starting, the shooting form stays fresh.
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
As long as Kevin is happy Kyle started, that's all that matters! Team and winning take a backseat to Kevin's happiness.

There may be a reason why KD started over DD that we don't know about. I, personally, don't give a rats behind who starts, as long as the TEAM finishes with a W. It seems as if some on here take it as a personal affront if their favorite guys don't start.
No I just refuse to hold player's hands like they're children. You guys go out of your way and find every excuse to defend DD and everything he does when in all reality he's a just a wildly mediocre player. I've never seen a player this average get this much hype and have everyone battling for him. And I'm all about winning and we play better with KD playing 30+ minutes just rewatch the VCU game. He has a winner's atttidue and DD doesn't. If you can't see that then I can't help you
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2017, 10:14 AM
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Agreed
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Old 03-05-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
No I just refuse to hold player's hands like they're children. You guys go out of your way and find every excuse to defend DD and everything he does when in all reality he's a just a wildly mediocre player. I've never seen a player this average get this much hype and have everyone battling for him. And I'm all about winning and we play better with KD playing 30+ minutes just rewatch the VCU game. He has a winner's atttidue and DD doesn't. If you can't see that then I can't help you
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While I cheer for these guys, worry about their injuries, and hope for the best for them, I don't recall ever having defended DD. I do want to see victories, and the TEAM seems to play better when DD starts instead of KD, and basketball is a TEAM game. Ultimately, you should do what is best for the TEAM and I trust Archie to do that. Each player is different and not one of us who isn't involved directly with the team knows these differences.
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:01 AM
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I really worry that this hit will effect DD more than the actual injury. He already appeared to be a bit shy of contact, and was overcoming that in recent weeks. This may be a psychological setback.
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
While I cheer for these guys, worry about their injuries, and hope for the best for them, I don't recall ever having defended DD. I do want to see victories, and the TEAM seems to play better when DD starts instead of KD, and basketball is a TEAM game. Ultimately, you should do what is best for the TEAM and I trust Archie to do that. Each player is different and not one of us who isn't involved directly with the team knows these differences.
You say you think the TEAM plays better when DD starts.

You say you trust Archie to do what is best for the TEAM.

And Archie started KD the last two games.

So what is your position???

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Old 03-05-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
No I just refuse to hold player's hands like they're children. You guys go out of your way and find every excuse to defend DD and everything he does when in all reality he's a just a wildly mediocre player. I've never seen a player this average get this much hype and have everyone battling for him. And I'm all about winning and we play better with KD playing 30+ minutes just rewatch the VCU game. He has a winner's atttidue and DD doesn't. If you can't see that then I can't help you
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What does starting and playing 30+ minutes have to do with each other. There's no doubt then in every game that DD started, KD got the most minutes. Why they seem to play better this way? I presented a theory. Another one might just be that when we start resting our starters early, KD is a leader and has a calming effect on the backups to start.

KD is my favorite player, so I have no hidden agenda here. I just want the team to be in the best position to win and for some reason, AM stuck with DD as starter when KD came back from injury for a long time and the team didn't lose a game. I don't see a reason to mess with that formula.
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 312to937 View Post
You say you think the TEAM plays better when DD starts.

You say you trust Archie to do what is best for the TEAM.

And Archie started KD the last two games.

So what is your position???

I trust Archie had his reasons, and I do not know what they are. Personally, I would have stuck with what was working, but I don't know what Archie knows.
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:47 PM
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One other possibility that makes this team better when DD starts. He has to be defended on the outside. There's no coincidence I believe that when the opponent's defense has to worry about Scooch, DD, XW and CC, the first 4 minutes of our games became the Kendall Pollard show just about every time.

Again, the first minute jitters or whatever it is in a basketball game is kind of a built in defense so another reason where maybe KD isn't as needed at that point in the game. Not to mention that DD has become a pretty good defensive player in his own right.

Whatever it was, we were very successful and that's the bottom line.

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Old 03-05-2017, 04:20 PM
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Isn't KD second on the team in 3%? Maybe third if you count Croaby's small sample size.
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Old 03-05-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
Isn't KD second on the team in 3%? Maybe third if you count Croaby's small sample size.
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How many of those do you remember coming in the first 4 minutes of the game? I can remember exactly zero. He doesn't shoot them much, but when he does it's pretty much a "well, nothing else is working, it's time for me to try" type of thing.

Just another reason why I like his minutes coming a little later. He's kind of an evaluator of situations and seems to play accordingly. And as others have said, he's more important at the end of games than in the beginning.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:44 PM
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Any combination of 5 we had on the floor in the first half didn't play D. We needed to start 6 to get out of the funk we walked out in. Which five players starting had no bearing on the game.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Any combination of 5 we had on the floor in the first half didn't play D. We needed to start 6 to get out of the funk we walked out in. Which five players starting had no bearing on the game.
Bingo. UD just won one of the biggest games in their history three days earlier with the original starter for almost 90 games being Kyle Davis and they shot well over 50% for that game and we got people whining over who should have started.....Incredible...
UD simply ran into a snake pit and got their asses beat for 30 plus minutes.Happens to teams far better than UD. Made a great comeback and hitting just 3-4 more FT's which still keeps them under 60% for the game and they have a chance to win last saturday.......
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
Isn't KD second on the team in 3%? Maybe third if you count Croaby's small sample size.
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Kyle Davis:
Beginning of season until Duquesne starting: 11-34 = 32% (17 games)
VCU - Davidson coming off the bench: 11-18 = 61% (9 games)
Last 2 games starting: 1-5 = 20%

Darrell Davis:
Beginning of season until Vandy off bench: 11-30 = 36% (11 games)
VMI through Davidson starting: 25-69 = 36% (16 games)
Last to games off bench: 2-3 = 66%

Kyle seems to be shooting much better off the bench but here's the big difference. DD is shooting about the same off the bench but is taking 2.5 shots per game off the bench and 4.3 shots per game as a starter.

I think this proves what we can see with our eyes: DD just can't get his motor running when coming off the bench.
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Bingo. UD just won one of the biggest games in their history three days earlier with the original starter for almost 90 games being Kyle Davis and they shot well over 50% for that game and we got people whining over who should have started.....Incredible...
UD simply ran into a snake pit and got their asses beat for 30 plus minutes.Happens to teams far better than UD. Made a great comeback and hitting just 3-4 more FT's which still keeps them under 60% for the game and they have a chance to win last saturday.......
Yep, that's just great. That week of KD starting dropped us down 2 spots in the AP and 10+ spots in the coaches poll after consistent climbing since DD was starting. Why do you feel the need to argue against success? Just because AM did it doesn't mean it was the correct thing to do. Maybe we would've lost to GW anyway, that's not what worries me, future losses do.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yep, that's just great. That week of KD starting dropped us down 2 spots in the AP and 10+ spots in the coaches poll after consistent climbing since DD was starting. Why do you feel the need to argue against success? Just because AM did it doesn't mean it was the correct thing to do. Maybe we would've lost to GW anyway, that's not what worries me, future losses do.
Why do you beetch and moan at Charles Cooke every single minute of your life? And you have ZERO idea if they would have started DD against VCU if they would have even won the game. Kyle came out like a mad man against VCU and had 4 points, a rebound, a steal, and an assist in the first 4 minutes of the game and set the tone just the way he knows how to do. DD barely does that most games in 20 minutes of PT.

Again, KD has started almost 90 games. That's 90 !!!!!! You act like the guy is a detriment by starting.Your issue is you second guess every single thing that happens or every single mistake a player makes.......

You fail to even give GW credit here. This was a complete set-up/let down game by a team that is good in UD (not great) that has shown plenty of signs of getting off to slow starts against terrible teams even "with" DD starting let alone a team that should have 20 wins now and 12 in the A10. GW is a **** good team and they are a terrible match-up for UD..
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Just because AM did it doesn't mean it was the correct thing to do.
You consistently amaze me with your 20/20 hindsight.

Maybe we got blown out because CC wore blue shoes against GW? First time he's worn them all year! How dare you CC...wearing those blue sneakers in the midst of a 9-game winning streak!
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
You consistently amaze me with your 20/20 hindsight.

Maybe we got blown out because CC wore blue shoes against GW? First time he's worn them all year! How dare you CC...wearing those blue sneakers in the midst of a 9-game winning streak!
Hindsight my butt. Look through threads before Friday's games, I've been very complimentary and an advocate of starting DD over KD.

Oh, and maybe you aren't intelligent enough to know the difference, but the players you have on the court at certain times have a teeny tiny more difference to the success of a team compared to color of shoes. Just a ridiculous counter argument.

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Old 03-06-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Why do you beetch and moan at Charles Cooke every single minute of your life? And you have ZERO idea if they would have started DD against VCU if they would have even won the game. Kyle came out like a mad man against VCU and had 4 points, a rebound, a steal, and an assist in the first 4 minutes of the game and set the tone just the way he knows how to do. DD barely does that most games in 20 minutes of PT.

Again, KD has started almost 90 games. That's 90 !!!!!! You act like the guy is a detriment by starting.Your issue is you second guess every single thing that happens or every single mistake a player makes.......

You fail to even give GW credit here. This was a complete set-up/let down game by a team that is good in UD (not great) that has shown plenty of signs of getting off to slow starts against terrible teams even "with" DD starting let alone a team that should have 20 wins now and 12 in the A10. GW is a **** good team and they are a terrible match-up for UD..
This!
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Why do you beetch and moan at Charles Cooke every single minute of your life? And you have ZERO idea if they would have started DD against VCU if they would have even won the game. Kyle came out like a mad man against VCU and had 4 points, a rebound, a steal, and an assist in the first 4 minutes of the game and set the tone just the way he knows how to do. DD barely does that most games in 20 minutes of PT.

Again, KD has started almost 90 games. That's 90 !!!!!! You act like the guy is a detriment by starting.Your issue is you second guess every single thing that happens or every single mistake a player makes.......

You fail to even give GW credit here. This was a complete set-up/let down game by a team that is good in UD (not great) that has shown plenty of signs of getting off to slow starts against terrible teams even "with" DD starting let alone a team that should have 20 wins now and 12 in the A10. GW is a **** good team and they are a terrible match-up for UD..
Until you have an answer to why Baby D was a starter for all those games leading up to senior night(all wins) and why he wasn't the last 2, you know no more than I. All we both know is they've never lost with Baby D starting and Baby plays better throughout games that he does.

I never said KD is a detriment, he's my favorite player, he plays well at any point in the game, but Baby D playing good helps too and if it works that he plays better starting, then you do it.

As far as Charles Cooke, you do the opposite, everything to defend him yet for a "star" player, he's the most inconsistent star player in the history of UD basketball and least clutch player of starting 5, with or without KD.

I really don't get all the hostility to the question of Baby D starting. He started prior to senior night, we won, we hummed, we looked like a team on the upswing. Why, out of the blue does KD become our starter? Give me a bleepin reason for DD to be starting and then not.

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Old 03-06-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I really don't get all the hostility to the question of Baby D starting.
Maybe because you're like ud2 on the 15/15 scheduling question. You keep going on and on and on and on about it. (Same with your criticisms of Cooke.) Maybe people are getting tired of it. We get your point. You don't have to keep repeating it over and over and over. But you are free to do so, and people are free to reply. And before you say this reply is "hostile," you just said someone might not be intelligent enough to understand your argument, and called his argument "ridiculous."
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:18 PM
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
As far as Charles Cooke, you do the opposite, everything to defend him yet for a "star" player, he's the most inconsistent star player in the history of UD basketball and least clutch player of starting 5, with or without KD.
I disagree about the inconsistency. Cooke has been consistent on defense all year. He is high on the team in terms of assists. For a person who is slammed as selfish, he has a high number of assists. His point production has dropped because A10 defenses key on him more now.

He HAS gone one on one too often, but so has Pollard. I think the UD offense at times is designed to create that. When the team gets stagnant, they are asked to force something to happen. It makes both Pollard and Cooke vulnerable.

Every player has moments. Scoochie was just there for 40 minutes in the Davidson game, but in the space of two minutes all is forgiven and he is legendary. Archie spoke about leaving Crosby in at the end of regulation instead of putting Scoochie back in the game.

We rave about Kyle's defense but early in the year his on ball defense was really not up to what I was used to seeing from Kyle.

I bring these examples up, because some things just don't show in the box score. It is easy to knock a player without being objective about the full body of work. None of them are top of the game for 40 minutes.
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Oh, and maybe you aren't intelligent enough to know the difference, but the players you have on the court at certain times have a teeny tiny more difference to the success of a team compared to color of shoes. Just a ridiculous counter argument.
Most enjoy a great debate. You have some points. However, this does nothing to solidify your case. Gotta have thicker skin if you want to start a topic when you know people will disagree.
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Most enjoy a great debate. You have some points. However, this does nothing to solidify your case. Gotta have thicker skin if you want to start a topic when you know people will disagree.
Exactly. Had to stop feeding into it. No productive banter when it gets emotional.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Maybe because you're like ud2 on the 15/15 scheduling question. You keep going on and on and on and on about it. (Same with your criticisms of Cooke.) Maybe people are getting tired of it. We get your point. You don't have to keep repeating it over and over and over. But you are free to do so, and people are free to reply. And before you say this reply is "hostile," you just said someone might not be intelligent enough to understand your argument, and called his argument "ridiculous."
You're right, it was ridiculous to call "not intelligent" the argument over different players having an effect on the performance of a team as comparable to the color of socks a player is wearing. It was a very clever, well thought out response

With that, I'm done with this thread unless one of you geniuses can explain why it was smart to have DD start and then it wasn't.

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Old 03-07-2017, 07:50 AM
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[QUOTE=Smitty10;493398]

he's the most inconsistent star player in the history of UD basketball

LMAO...You, sir, are quite mind-numbing and just so foolish on so many takes in regards to many many subjects in regards to basketball but THIS comment takes the cake..Let's see now, you've stated in the past that the team would be better off without Cooke, better off with him on the bench, and maybe without him overall in so so many of your vitriol comments over the past year.Yet, now you call him a "star" player...I shake my me head at you like the Aflac duck did in the commercials with Yogi Berra...
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Until you have an answer to why Baby D was a starter for all those games leading up to senior night(all wins) and why he wasn't the last 2, you know no more than I.
DD started and went 1-4 in the loss to UMass.

Oh, he also started and went 1-4 against VCU @ VCU. The game we lost.

Sorry, go back to telling us about your intelligence. . .
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
You're right, it was ridiculous to call "not intelligent" the argument over different players having an effect on the performance of a team as comparable to the color of socks a player is wearing. It was a very clever, well thought out response
I'm assuming he was being sarcastic and you didn't catch that and attacked him. (And it was shoes, not socks.)
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
You're right, it was ridiculous to call "not intelligent" the argument over different players having an effect on the performance of a team as comparable to the color of socks a player is wearing. It was a very clever, well thought out response

With that, I'm done with this thread unless one of you geniuses can explain why it was smart to have DD start and then it wasn't.
So much for the 'In Archie we trust motto'
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