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  #1  
Old 03-26-2017, 08:37 PM
Gem City Gem City is offline
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Poison Pill

I can't believe UD didn't have some poison pills written into Archie's contract. At the minimum, wouldn't IU need to by out the rest of Archie's contract?
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gem City View Post
I can't believe UD didn't have some poison pills written into Archie's contract. At the minimum, wouldn't IU need to by out the rest of Archie's contract?
Yep, they are called buyouts, and happen all the time. No one seems to know if there was one in Miller's and how much.
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Yep, they are called buyouts, and happen all the time. No one seems to know if there was one in Miller's and how much.
There is no way in today's day and age that there would not have been one...and I assume each time we extended Archie the buyout got bigger.
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:50 PM
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Actually in many instances as a coach gains tenure and has success the buyouts can get smaller. The coac just says no, I will sign one of my many other offers
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Actually in many instances as a coach gains tenure and has success the buyouts can get smaller. The coac just says no, I will sign one of my many other offers
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Agree...a successful coach has all the leverage...there may have been no poison pill...UD might have been powerless.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:54 AM
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Yes there was a buyout clause in Archies contract in the amount of 4million, however even BG got to list 3 schools that would be exempt from the buyout clause. For Archie he listed tOSU, Indiana and one other.

That is standard for most coaches. BG listed MSU and two others, not sure who they were. So you can bet Neil got really busy when the Indiana job opened and the early speculation Thad might leave as well.

NCSU was not on AM's list, as he had no interest of ever going back there. All speculation from an insider, and that is not me.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:15 AM
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Read the article regarding UD countering with what would have made Archie one of the Top 10 highest compensated basketball coaches had he stayed at UD.

IU is one of the 4-5 schools that could have pulled him away from Dayton.

The other take away is the program has reached a point where they can offer compensation to beat all but 9 other packages in the country for a proven coach.
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Yes there was a buyout clause in Archies contract in the amount of 4million, however even BG got to list 3 schools that would be exempt from the buyout clause. For Archie he listed tOSU, Indiana and one other.

That is standard for most coaches. BG listed MSU and two others, not sure who they were. So you can bet Neil got really busy when the Indiana job opened and the early speculation Thad might leave as well.

NCSU was not on AM's list, as he had no interest of ever going back there. All speculation from an insider, and that is not me.
Sorry if this has been asked/answered in another thread. How do these coaching "buyout" clauses work exactly?
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Sorry if this has been asked/answered in another thread. How do these coaching "buyout" clauses work exactly?
If a coach leaves they have to pay the school they were at to get out of their contract. So if there was a 1 million dollar buyout in Archies contract he(or the school he was going to) would have to pay UD 1 million dollars. If the report above about his contract is correct that IU was excluded from a buyout then UD gets no money at all. Since UD is private it's hard to tell what the actual contract was because it's not public record. It's simply people guessing or saying they have "sources".
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by UD90 View Post
Read the article regarding UD countering with what would have made Archie one of the Top 10 highest compensated basketball coaches had he stayed at UD.

IU is one of the 4-5 schools that could have pulled him away from Dayton.

The other take away is the program has reached a point where they can offer compensation to beat all but 9 other packages in the country for a proven coach.
UD also understands what could happen with a coaching change.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:10 PM
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Who the heck knows if there were 3 exceptions in AMs contract. But logic tells me there was not. Those mentioned above seem to be schools that could easily write checks of $1-3 mil to get the coach they wanted. So why would UD agree to that? And why would Archie negotiate that knowing they could pay, so would not stop these schools from hiring him. It's the norm for the school doing the hiring away to pay these clauses. And if there were 3 exceptions in the agreement, couldn't UD just deny the coach permission to interview at these schools? And why would Archie not want UD compensated for the out? He thinks highly of UD and it's hiring of him gave him the opportunity to be considered by these 3 programs. Usually outs are in there so the coach can get out of the contract legally if the money is paid. It's to AMs benefit to have this type of clause. If there were 3 exceptions, they were the schools AM was most interested in. I can't believe UD would exempt these. I could see a clause that AM did not need permission to talk to these three schools, if they were the 3 at the top of his list. But logic tells me UD gets a check from IU. Who knows?
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
...however even BG got to list 3 schools that would be exempt from the buyout clause. For Archie he listed tOSU, Indiana and one other.

That is standard for most coaches. BG listed MSU and two others, not sure who they were.
I have heard the same thing, a d1 coach in this region has 2 schools in his contract that exempt him from the buyout clause.

Last edited by ud2; 03-27-2017 at 02:35 PM..
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Who the heck knows if there were 3 exceptions in AMs contract. But logic tells me there was not. Those mentioned above seem to be schools that could easily write checks of $1-3 mil to get the coach they wanted. So why would UD agree to that? And why would Archie negotiate that knowing they could pay, so would not stop these schools from hiring him. It's the norm for the school doing the hiring away to pay these clauses. And if there were 3 exceptions in the agreement, couldn't UD just deny the coach permission to interview at these schools? And why would Archie not want UD compensated for the out? He thinks highly of UD and it's hiring of him gave him the opportunity to be considered by these 3 programs. Usually outs are in there so the coach can get out of the contract legally if the money is paid. It's to AMs benefit to have this type of clause. If there were 3 exceptions, they were the schools AM was most interested in. I can't believe UD would exempt these. I could see a clause that AM did not need permission to talk to these three schools, if they were the 3 at the top of his list. But logic tells me UD gets a check from IU. Who knows?
It is pretty standard for a contract to have exceptions if the coach has some leverage when negotiating a contract. I am pretty sure Will Wade's contract also had exceptions for the buyout.

As for why would a coach negotiate these in when schools can pay? Because it is one less hurdle on getting the job. I know the reason Archie was not seriously considered for the Florida job (even though he was interested) was the buyout. Florida just fired their Football coach and had to pay a buyout to him as well as the new coach they hired. They were not going to pay top dollar if they had to pay another buyout. So putting exempt teams into a contract typically means there less hurdles for those to move to one of those schools.

I know as fans we like to act like 1-3 million for a school to pay is nothing. But even schools that turn a profit because of football, 1-3 million is a lot to pay when you then have to pay another 2-4 million annually for a salary.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:36 PM
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If the Florida thing happened, then it makes sense. Archie would not want to end up out of an offer if the schools listed came calling. I just don't know why UD wouldn't then negotiate a Home-Home to get some value in exchange.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:02 PM
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Basically because Archie had almost all the leverage. Coaching contracts for the most part define the coach's severance and his rights to go elsewhere without paying something back. The more you win, the longer you stay, the more leverage you have.

He can always tell UD no thanks, I've got plenty of offers.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:09 PM
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The exception clause makes no sense to me. It allows Archie to walk away with no penalty, but if UD fired him, they would have to pay a penalty. Seems way too one-sided. UD was paying him top dollar. I would be surprised if they received nothing from IU for the right to break the contract and hire Archie.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
The exception clause makes no sense to me. It allows Archie to walk away with no penalty, but if UD fired him, they would have to pay a penalty. Seems way too one-sided. UD was paying him top dollar. I would be surprised if they received nothing from IU for the right to break the contract and hire Archie.
It may make no sense, but it's a real thing. It allows him to leave to 3 schools, everyone else would have to pay the buyout. Again, look at it from UD's point of view. After the E8 each year they extended him knowing other schools had come calling. They were going to have to sweeten the pot each time. This is one of the more common clauses now that schools throw in to sweeten the pot.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Who the heck knows if there were 3 exceptions in AMs contract. But logic tells me there was not. Those mentioned above seem to be schools that could easily write checks of $1-3 mil to get the coach they wanted. So why would UD agree to that? And why would Archie negotiate that knowing they could pay, so would not stop these schools from hiring him. It's the norm for the school doing the hiring away to pay these clauses. And if there were 3 exceptions in the agreement, couldn't UD just deny the coach permission to interview at these schools? And why would Archie not want UD compensated for the out? He thinks highly of UD and it's hiring of him gave him the opportunity to be considered by these 3 programs. Usually outs are in there so the coach can get out of the contract legally if the money is paid. It's to AMs benefit to have this type of clause. If there were 3 exceptions, they were the schools AM was most interested in. I can't believe UD would exempt these. I could see a clause that AM did not need permission to talk to these three schools, if they were the 3 at the top of his list. But logic tells me UD gets a check from IU. Who knows?
Whose logic. A school who has an investment interest in their coach wants to be compensated should said coach leave for another job. It was stated with each of AM extensions that the buyout amount had gone up to 4milliion and AM was allowed to list 3 schools of interest that he could go to where the school would not have to pay the buyout amount.

Not sure where everyone has been but this is standard practice in coaches contracts with the coach allowing to list # schools he would like to go to if offered and not have a buyout. This isn't a secret but was up front with the each negotiated contract.

That is why some schools won't take a coach that has a buyout clause, but rather prefer a coach whose contract is up and not renewed. When you have to pay the coach you just fired salary for couple more years and a new coach of interest has a buyout clause they will pass as 1-3 million is a lot of money when all things are considered. Pay the coach his remaining salary, the salary of the new incoming coach and his buyout to the school he is leaving can get quite hefty.
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