Whew (Fordham post-game)

TXFlyerFan · #1 01-31-2017, 11:12 PM

Too close for too long for my comfort. Turnovers and Fordham 3 pt shooting were the reason it wasn't a blowout win. Gotta take care of the rock. Plus, too many offensive rebounds lost again tonight. Pollard with a solid offensive night, until he started missing FTs. At one point he was 7-8, then missed 3 or his next four I think. Quiet game by Cooke. Scooch solid. Crosby lost again. He just can't do anything but dribble into traffic. At least it's a W. On to Duquesne.

Beatty Town Coach · #2 01-31-2017, 11:22 PM

You are right; that was some "harry" basketball watching, breath holding, disaster avoiding kind of entertainment.

A win is a win...Go Flyers.

Clearly Fordham is much better than years past.

priceg75 · #3 01-31-2017, 11:26 PM

Yeah it was a rough game, but VCU came here and lost. We didn't. Take the W and burn the video.

Kevinob15 · #4 01-31-2017, 11:32 PM

Posted via Mobile Device burn everything but all the pick and pops. Gotta learn how to defend that. We do that and this game isn't close. Good escape in a tough Tuesday night away game though.

C-time · #5 01-31-2017, 11:34 PM

Fordham is better than in years past and their extreme up the line denial defense is something you don't see much. I thought it took UD time to adjust to it and then when they got in foul trouble attacked their zones well. Fordham's largest issue is depth. Any road win is good.

And most importantly.

CHAMPIONS COVER

sabo2 · #6 01-31-2017, 11:50 PM

What did I take from this game? God bless S. Smith. Without him we lose by 10. Pollard was a workhorse. Crosby is not ready and it's getting late. DD looked better. Cooke will need to pull it together soon and I think he will. Good win over a much improved team, Or , should I say, international team.

DallasFlyer · #7 01-31-2017, 11:54 PM

You may say whew. But Ric Flair says woooo!

ud69 · #8 01-31-2017, 11:56 PM

Archie is really not a fan of these 9:00PM road games - as you can tell from his last 2 post-game shows. As he mentioned on the show - get home at 4:00AM and have to get up for an 8:00AM class - at least tomorrow. Got home the same time from VCU. Can't blame him. How far do you go to sell your soul to TV - i.e late games, Friday games, early Saturday games. I'll bet that changes for next year somewhat.

C-time · #9 02-01-2017, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by ud69

Archie is really not a fan of these 9:00PM road games - as you can tell from his last 2 post-game shows. As he mentioned on the show - get home at 4:00AM and have to get up for an 8:00AM class - at least tomorrow. Got home the same time from VCU. Can't blame him. How far do you go to sell your soul to TV - i.e late games, Friday games, early Saturday games. I'll bet that changes for next year somewhat.

Here's the thing though. Back in the Purnell era the team would have spent the night in NY whether it was a 7pm or 9pm start. Then get on a commercial flight the next morning and get back to campus by noon if things went smoothly. I'm sure all the players made it to their afternoon classes though.

Getting back at 4am sucks but that's a first world problem to have since they fly charter now. I'm sure the players can try to sleep on the plane, but 9pm games aren't disappearing anytime soon. If I were a player I'd pop some nyquil right now to try to knock myself out for the flight back. At least the players can go to class now instead of back then when that wasn't going to happen.

Beatty Town Coach · #10 02-01-2017, 12:26 AM

I concur about the up-side of chartering; but we can nix the worthless Friday night games. That's useless; it makes zero positive impact on the minds of fans and recruits alike. It's garbage!

If UD was in the Big East, the networks would want Dayton to play DePaul on Friday night, like it was a high school game. The real world of Division I college basketball functions on the weekend; not Fridays...unless it's March. UD should tell the A10, don't mention our name to the networks when discussing Friday night high school coverage....see you at UD Arena on Saturday.

C-time · #11 02-01-2017, 01:42 AM

BTW UD made the midnight Sportscenter with Scott Van Pelt in the moose segment thanks to Scoochie getting the ball to Kendall to cover for UD.

rollo · #12 02-01-2017, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

You may say whew. But Ric Flair says woooo!

steve · #13 02-01-2017, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan

Too close for too long for my comfort. Turnovers and Fordham 3 pt shooting were the reason it wasn't a blowout win. Gotta take care of the rock. Plus, too many offensive rebounds lost again tonight. Pollard with a solid offensive night, until he started missing FTs. At one point he was 7-8, then missed 3 or his next four I think. Quiet game by Cooke. Scooch solid. Crosby lost again. He just can't do anything but dribble into traffic. At least it's a W. On to Duquesne.

Terrible coaching too, imho. At the 11 minute mark or so UD was in the bonus already, Fordham had 1 guy with 4 fouls and 2-3 with 3 already and UD simply failed to try to get the ball into the post on at least 4-5 positions nor did they try to take their man to the bucket. Luckily, Fordham was ice cold.SS made 2 FT's with just over 10 minutes left and they did not go back to the FT line until 4:40 or so was left..Simply no reason not to try to take advantage of Fordham's foul trouble. Yes, UD frankly has no interior post game but they have plenty of guys who can get to the rack...

Gazoo · #14 02-01-2017, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by steve

Terrible coaching too, imho. At the 11 minute mark or so UD was in the bonus already, Fordham had 1 guy with 4 fouls and 2-3 with 3 already and UD simply failed to try to get the ball into the post on at least 4-5 positions nor did they try to take their man to the bucket. Luckily, Fordham was ice cold.SS made 2 FT's with just over 10 minutes left and they did not go back to the FT line until 4:40 or so was left..Simply no reason not to try to take advantage of Fordham's foul trouble. Yes, UD frankly has no interior post game but they have plenty of guys who can get to the rack...

I noticed that too, and was really surprised Miller didn't attack that. We were shooting jumpers and dribbling the ball around the half court line.

LIBob · #15 02-01-2017, 09:38 AM

If you're going to criticize Archie, what about Neubauer? Was bringing guys back into the game who had 3 fouls in the first half. Wasted timeouts to the point it created at least one turnover when a bad pass needed to be made on an inbounds play because they had no timeouts left and it was getting close to 5 seconds.

66flyer · #16 02-01-2017, 10:00 AM

BTC-- Harry, as in Harry Houdini? We did escape that puny gym like Houdini.
Personally, I thought it was hairy.

Canonball · #17 02-01-2017, 10:11 AM

Cooke was very quiet offensively. However when Archie made the switch to put Cooke on Sengfelder, the game changed. That dude was straight killing us, largely because Pollard wasn't stepping out on him. Cooke got up in his grill and down the stretch shut him down. After that Fordham didn't have many answers.

I am really impressed with Kyle Davis. I just feel like if he's out there it's going to be ok. Sub in Crosby for Scoochie and my BP jumps. I understand, coach has to play somebody to get Scoochie rest, but Crosby is an absolute trainwreck right now. I think UD had a single possession with him at the helm in which they looked competent. I guess you have to play him to try and get some kind of confidence because he'll be needed, but I think any number of players can dribble into the key and dribble the ball off their knee/foot.

Got to continue to have those small contributions from the D-Davis, Xeyrius, and Mikesell. Especially on nights when Cooke is off.

Wasn't pretty but the guys got out with the W.

jack72 · #18 02-01-2017, 10:13 AM

We were going to go to the rack with who? Pollard is the only guy. We are short on big guys that can compete at a top level. Mikesell does not shoot, X only if open and Miller barely sees the floor. We have Top 25 guards and that is it. Archie plays to our strengths, and wins a bunch despite having no bigs.

C-time · #19 02-01-2017, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by LIBob

If you're going to criticize Archie, what about Neubauer? Was bringing guys back into the game who had 3 fouls in the first half. Wasted timeouts to the point it created at least one turnover when a bad pass needed to be made on an inbounds play because they had no timeouts left and it was getting close to 5 seconds.

I'm going to defend Neubauer because he really doesn't have any capable bench players. He was trying to keep his team in the game by playing guys with 3 fouls in the first half. And it worked because it was tied at the half and none of them picked up a 4th foul. Maybe Archie should consider doing the same next time Scoochie picks up a 2nd foul with more than 8 minutes to play in the 1st half instead of the immediately gluing him to the bench for the rest of the half and giving away 10 point leads. Sometimes you have to trust your players to not foul to stay in the game.

As for the the timeouts the only one I thought was crazy by Neubauer was the one almost immediately after halftime. Still don't understand it. The last one a player called all on his own for no real reason.

Beatty Town Coach · #20 02-01-2017, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by 66flyer

BTC-- Harry, as in Harry Houdini? We did escape that puny gym like Houdini.
Personally, I thought it was hairy.

Hell it was midnight; and by then I was hairy. Bit I think you have it right on the escape part.

Morning after relief has passed. Now it's time to recognize it was only Fordham. And, if UD plays lIke that in ncaa tournament game....look out...that won't be pretty.

C-time · #21 02-01-2017, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Canonball

Sub in Crosby for Scoochie and my BP jumps. I understand, coach has to play somebody to get Scoochie rest, but Crosby is an absolute trainwreck right now. I think UD had a single possession with him at the helm in which they looked competent. I guess you have to play him to try and get some kind of confidence because he'll be needed, but I think any number of players can dribble into the key and dribble the ball off their knee/foot.

He doesn't have to keep playing Crosby. He used Darrell for a couple possessions around the under 4 TO to get Scoochie a breather. At this point let Darrell or Kyle play point for a couple minutes to get Scoochie breathers, but Crosby shouldn't play unless UD is well in control or the other 4 guards are in major foul trouble.

Gazoo · #22 02-01-2017, 10:21 AM

Remember, playing guys with 3 fouls is a desperation move. We're not in desperation mode. If SS needs to sit for 8 minutes, then he sits. The other guys are expected to pick up the slack. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But if you play SS and he gets this 3rd fouls, and then his 4th early in the 2nd half, we lose by 20 instead of having a chance right to the end.

Radar · #23 02-01-2017, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Remember, playing guys with 3 fouls is a desperation move. We're not in desperation mode. If SS needs to sit for 8 minutes, then he sits. The other guys are expected to pick up the slack. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But if you play SS and he gets this 3rd fouls, and then his 4th early in the 2nd half, we lose by 20 instead of having a chance right to the end.

Sure they're expected to pick up the slack, but that hasn't been the trend with JC lately. On the flip side, why not occasionally take the risk of sticking with your rotation (using SS vs VCU as an example) and, oh say...take that 10 pt lead to 15 or 20 since we were rolling at the time? Not saying do it every game, but when you've got a team like VCU on the ropes, keep 'em there.

C-time · #24 02-01-2017, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Remember, playing guys with 3 fouls is a desperation move. We're not in desperation mode. If SS needs to sit for 8 minutes, then he sits. The other guys are expected to pick up the slack. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But if you play SS and he gets this 3rd fouls, and then his 4th early in the 2nd half, we lose by 20 instead of having a chance right to the end.

I agree that playing a guy with 3 fouls in the 1st half is a desperation move, but playing your senior leader point guard with 2 fouls isn't desperation when your backup is a disaster. I would take Scoochie out once he got his 2nd, remind him he has two fouls, and then put him back in after a minute or 2. Time, Score, Opponent, and Home/Away all play into this but Friday at VCU and the game at UMass were both times Scoochie could have played with 2.

66flyer · #25 02-01-2017, 10:42 AM

Sorry BTC-- I couldn't help myself. My UD education degree with English as my major teaching field and growing up with a mom who drilled spelling, grammar and pronunciation into me (I did the same with my kids) created a monster, who has been known to correct misspelled words on supermarket signs and elsewhere.

There! An amazing run-on sentence just to show I'm human.

MrFlyerFanatic · #26 02-01-2017, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by steve

Terrible coaching too, imho. At the 11 minute mark or so UD was in the bonus already, Fordham had 1 guy with 4 fouls and 2-3 with 3 already and UD simply failed to try to get the ball into the post on at least 4-5 positions nor did they try to take their man to the bucket. Luckily, Fordham was ice cold.SS made 2 FT's with just over 10 minutes left and they did not go back to the FT line until 4:40 or so was left..Simply no reason not to try to take advantage of Fordham's foul trouble. Yes, UD frankly has no interior post game but they have plenty of guys who can get to the rack...

All three Fordham bigs fouled out as the Flyers attacked the paint late in the game.

Considering the number of highly questionable block/charge calls made in the game, it was very dangerous for KP or SS to risk being aggressive. Remember, last night it was an offensive foul when a defender ran under KP on a fast break. Scoochie also also picked up a questionable call while going to the hoop. Even KD got into the act by drawing a charge when he was clearly not in position.

I don't know what was worse, the officiating, or the CBSSN production quality. I'm not even going to bring up the commentators and the halftime show.

C-time · #27 02-01-2017, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic

I don't know what was worse, the officiating, or the CBSSN production quality. I'm not even going to bring up the commentators and the halftime show.

I will comment on the CBSSN pregame/halftime show with the same thing I said in the game thread. CHANGE THE CHANNEL. Rothstein just repeats the same horrible cliches he uses on twitter. Danny Granger is simply clueless and can't read a highlight. And Jaime Erdhal needs to stick to sideline reporting because I've never seen her host a studio show and I knew within 30 seconds last night she was bad at it. Gary Parrish was the closest person to being competent on there.

As for the game I actually thought the color guy made a few good observations and was not on a some sort of campaign like Jay Bilas and Mark Adams always are which I really appreciated

Canonball · #28 02-01-2017, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic

I don't know what was worse, the officiating, or the CBSSN production quality. I'm not even going to bring up the commentators and the halftime show.

You don't enjoy close ups of the free-throw shooter, while he's shooting? That and watching the free-throw through the glass? Why can't these guys stick with the tried and true camera angles!

MDC

flyerfanatic86 · #29 02-01-2017, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

I agree that playing a guy with 3 fouls in the 1st half is a desperation move, but playing your senior leader point guard with 2 fouls isn't desperation when your backup is a disaster. I would take Scoochie out once he got his 2nd, remind him he has two fouls, and then put him back in after a minute or 2. Time, Score, Opponent, and Home/Away all play into this but Friday at VCU and the game at UMass were both times Scoochie could have played with 2.

I agree with this. If you pull Scoochie and then he plays the entire second half without picking up another foul, then you've really limited him when it wasn't necessary. Maybe I think about this too mathematically, but at least if he picks up 5, you know that he's maxed out his availability, whereas finishing the game with anything less that that means he left minutes on the floor by sitting with foul trouble. Obviously there are other considerations, like if a guy is getting exploited on defense because he's avoiding further foul trouble. But at a high level, this is sometimes how I look at it.

flyerfan4life · #30 02-01-2017, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

He doesn't have to keep playing Crosby. He used Darrell for a couple possessions around the under 4 TO to get Scoochie a breather. At this point let Darrell or Kyle play point for a couple minutes to get Scoochie breathers, but Crosby shouldn't play unless UD is well in control or the other 4 guards are in major foul trouble.

If you've watched Kyle Davis for almost 4 years and believe he can play the point, you're watching a different game than me. He almost never dribbles with his right hand. I'm with you on the general premise of this post though. Crosby can't be the backup PG in competitive games right now. Has to be DD....and only for about 5-7 minutes a game. Use strategic timing for Schoochie's breaks.....right before the TV timeouts and while CC,KD & KP are on the floor with him.

BRob2Perryman3 · #31 02-01-2017, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic

All three Fordham bigs fouled out as the Flyers attacked the paint late in the game.

Considering the number of highly questionable block/charge calls made in the game, it was very dangerous for KP or SS to risk being aggressive. Remember, last night it was an offensive foul when a defender ran under KP on a fast break. Scoochie also also picked up a questionable call while going to the hoop. Even KD got into the act by drawing a charge when he was clearly not in position.

I don't know what was worse, the officiating, or the CBSSN production quality. I'm not even going to bring up the commentators and the halftime show.

Atleast CBSSN sent its commentators to the game, which is more then i can say for that four letter network. I cant remember if it was the SLU or Richmond game but it was painfully obvious the "commentators" were on satellite in Bristol.

FlyerGuyer · #32 02-01-2017, 01:02 PM

I can't complain too much about CBSSN. They broadcast a lot of interesting games from conferences like the A 10, Mountain West, etc. I actually think they are nearly as good (or better) as ESPN or Fox Sports. I've been noticing a decline in the production quality of some ESPN broadcasts, including technical glitches and the aforementioned "remote" announcers.

Medford · #33 02-01-2017, 01:21 PM

ESPN has been lossing money of late, it doesn't surprise me that they are cutting corners. I actually enjoy the production that CBS puts on. We're "too close to the story" so whatever they say we're going to have more knowledge than than the casual fan watching at home and likely read too much into the commentary.

C-time · #34 02-01-2017, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

If you've watched Kyle Davis for almost 4 years and believe he can play the point, you're watching a different game than me. He almost never dribbles with his right hand. I'm with you on the general premise of this post though. Crosby can't be the backup PG in competitive games right now. Has to be DD....and only for about 5-7 minutes a game. Use strategic timing for Schoochie's breaks.....right before the TV timeouts and while CC,KD & KP are on the floor with him.

I'm not expecting much from either KD or DD at the point. I just want them to dribble it up the court and not dribble into traffic and turn the ball over. Just make a pass to the wing and start some motion offense. I think KD would be able to do it some because of his toughness and the fact when he does catch the ball on the wing when UD pushes he actually looks up and sees if there are defenders there and then pulls the ball back out if he doesn't have anything.

CT Flyer · #35 02-01-2017, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

I will comment on the CBSSN pregame/halftime show with the same thing I said in the game thread. CHANGE THE CHANNEL. Rothstein just repeats the same horrible cliches he uses on twitter. Danny Granger is simply clueless and can't read a highlight. And Jaime Erdhal needs to stick to sideline reporting because I've never seen her host a studio show and I knew within 30 seconds last night she was bad at it. Gary Parrish was the closest person to being competent on there.

As for the game I actually thought the color guy made a few good observations and was not on a some sort of campaign like Jay Bilas and Mark Adams always are which I really appreciated

I actually think Cuff is a pretty good color guy too. And he's now pretty familiar with the A10 and actually says stuff that he has observed instead of just stuff he reads out of the media guide like all the color guys we get on ESPN and NBCSN.

CT Flyer · #36 02-01-2017, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

If you've watched Kyle Davis for almost 4 years and believe he can play the point, you're watching a different game than me. He almost never dribbles with his right hand. I'm with you on the general premise of this post though. Crosby can't be the backup PG in competitive games right now. Has to be DD....and only for about 5-7 minutes a game. Use strategic timing for Schoochie's breaks.....right before the TV timeouts and while CC,KD & KP are on the floor with him.

I think DD has to be answer as the backup PG because he can't be worse than Crosby and he at least has the ability to score too. The funny thing is if you watch games from his Freshman year he actually played a little PG occasionally and was serviceable. But I guess just like his shooting that part of his game has gone downhill too.

CT Flyer · #37 02-01-2017, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

Atleast CBSSN sent its commentators to the game, which is more then i can say for that four letter network. I cant remember if it was the SLU or Richmond game but it was painfully obvious the "commentators" were on satellite in Bristol.

I know ESPN has broadcast remotely in the past but I really don' think the game you mentioned this year was remote. I remember the comment the night of the game and tried to see if it was true and I do think they were actually in the arena that night. I could be wrong though.

flybye · #38 02-01-2017, 02:26 PM

Love Archie!! post game had a little Huggins in it. Said he didn't know what to do to stop Fordham and he told the kids they just had to go do it. Then he moaned about he flight home getting in at 4 and the kids had to go to class at 8!! So even though we question the rotation at times, he clearly outcoached Fordham, Archie stayed patient ( perhaps to patient) and Fordham ran out of time outs and players and Dayton finished strong. Getting Josh back will really help our physical presence inside. Archie was revealing in what he said, though a bit of coach speak he simply dose not believe in Changing defenses. I think his next step as a great coach will be to be more open to changing things up to surprise the opp but as important get the offense going in a transition game when we get stuck. I have watched us fight back 5 times this year with that press with X on top...and it worked. So I imagine from time to time an aggressive 1-3-1 halfcourt trap with X on the top creating a few turnovers. I hope that this summer he includes that in our approach.

C-time · #39 02-01-2017, 02:36 PM

.....

jack72 · #40 02-01-2017, 02:37 PM

Part of the reason Archie is sticking with Crosby is because he will need a starter and backup for next year. If you play Kyle, both he and Scooch are gone. At some point, like last night Archie will try plan B and C, and probably does in practice. Crosby will not get better sitting, so either you play him, or tell him to transfer, and that is with only one point guard, a freshman for next year. Sure Archie can get another PG for next year, but tough to do, and Archie is not putting his head on the line for that unknown.

hessbz12 · #41 02-01-2017, 02:53 PM

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but can someone after all this time, tell Crosby that he doesn't need to dribble right into the paint, right after he crosses mid court every. single. time? He's always in a rush. Sure Scooch quickens the pace, but there is a huge difference. Not like it would help, but I just wish Crosby would slow down and not go right into the paint. If I had a dollar for every time he dribbled into the paint and thus fumbled the ball away

Sea Bass · #42 02-01-2017, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by hessbz12

but can someone after all this time, tell Crosby that he doesn't need to dribble right into the paint, right after he crosses mid court every. single. time? He's always in a rush.

thats the problem. He is in a hurry when what really needs to be done is start the offense. Pass and move.

San Diego Flyer · #43 02-01-2017, 03:48 PM

Kyle may not be a good pure pg, but he has always been savvy enough to know, in view of the clock and the game situation, what is required to win at any given time. He is not going to chuck a 3, or drive into a crowded zone if the score and clock dictate otherwise. Kyle knows his limitations, and has the game figured out

As far as playing Kyle in place of Crosby, Arch is trying to win this game and this league right now. The last thing on his mind today is next year's point guard deficiency. He is going to be very intolerant of lousy pg play.

Kyle can spell Scoochie at the right moments, and he is a better option than DD or JC for short periods.

C-time · #44 02-01-2017, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

Kyle may not be a good pure pg, but he has always been savvy enough to know, in view of the clock and the game situation, what is required to win at any given time. He is not going to chuck a 3, or drive into a crowded zone if the score and clock dictate otherwise. Kyle knows his limitations, and has the game figured out

As far as playing Kyle in place of Crosby, Arch is trying to win this game and this league right now. The last thing on his mind today is next year's point guard deficiency. He is going to be very intolerant of lousy pg play.

Kyle can spell Scoochie at the right moments, and he is a better option than DD or JC for short periods.

Very well said and saved me from typing the same. I would give you a green pip too but the forum won't let me.

Gazoo · #45 02-01-2017, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Radar

Sure they're expected to pick up the slack, but that hasn't been the trend with JC lately. On the flip side, why not occasionally take the risk of sticking with your rotation (using SS vs VCU as an example) and, oh say...take that 10 pt lead to 15 or 20 since we were rolling at the time? Not saying do it every game, but when you've got a team like VCU on the ropes, keep 'em there.

Good to know there's no downside. Just leave SS in the game and we go up 15 or 20, then we can fill out the final stat sheet at halftime and not bother playing the second half. Sounds pretty easy, why didn't Miller think of that?

Maybe because they have coaches too. Maybe their coach will have their offensive attack SS as hard as possible and in the next 5 seconds SS gets his 3rd foul on some phantom call, he plays the first 10 minutes of the second half tentatively, and then we lose. That's a thing too.

Originally Posted by C-time

I agree that playing a guy with 3 fouls in the 1st half is a desperation move, but playing your senior leader point guard with 2 fouls isn't desperation when your backup is a disaster. I would take Scoochie out once he got his 2nd, remind him he has two fouls, and then put him back in after a minute or 2. Time, Score, Opponent, and Home/Away all play into this but Friday at VCU and the game at UMass were both times Scoochie could have played with 2.

I played on a pretty competitive softball team for a couple of summers. We played in a weekend tournament about 2x per month. We came in second place in nearly every tournament we entered. Why? Overcoaching. In the first 8 games of a tournament the coach would coach one way, then he'd get to the championship game and radically change the lineup / make some radical defensive change because we "needed" to do that to beat "this" team.

No, we didn't. No, we don't. We have a formula. We don't need to radically change that formula to beat Fordham or VCU. We don't change the starting lineup or play SS for 40 minutes or rush a player back from injury to beat "this" team.

When SS is in foul trouble we coach around it. When KP has a bad game we coach around it. When Cooke or KD are injured we coach around it.

CE80 · #46 02-01-2017, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Good to know there's no downside. Just leave SS in the game and we go up 15 or 20, then we can fill out the final stat sheet at halftime and not bother playing the second half. Sounds pretty easy, why didn't Miller think of that?

Maybe because they have coaches too. Maybe their coach will have their offensive attack SS as hard as possible and in the next 5 seconds SS gets his 3rd foul on some phantom call, he plays the first 10 minutes of the second half tentatively, and then we lose. That's a thing too.

I played on a pretty competitive softball team for a couple of summers. We played in a weekend tournament about 2x per month. We came in second place in nearly every tournament we entered. Why? Overcoaching. In the first 8 games of a tournament the coach would coach one way, then he'd get to the championship game and radically change the lineup / make some radical defensive change because we "needed" to do that to beat "this" team.

No, we didn't. No, we don't. We have a formula. We don't need to radically change that formula to beat Fordham or VCU. We don't change the starting lineup or play SS for 40 minutes or rush a player back from injury to beat "this" team.

When SS is in foul trouble we coach around it. When KP has a bad game we coach around it. When Cooke or KD are injured we coach around it.

So let me understand what you are saying. Are you saying that Archie knows how to coach?

C-time · #47 02-01-2017, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Good to know there's no downside. Just leave SS in the game and we go up 15 or 20, then we can fill out the final stat sheet at halftime and not bother playing the second half. Sounds pretty easy, why didn't Miller think of that?

Maybe because they have coaches too. Maybe their coach will have their offensive attack SS as hard as possible and in the next 5 seconds SS gets his 3rd foul on some phantom call, he plays the first 10 minutes of the second half tentatively, and then we lose. That's a thing too.

No, we didn't. No, we don't. We have a formula. We don't need to radically change that formula to beat Fordham or VCU. We don't change the starting lineup or play SS for 40 minutes or rush a player back from injury to beat "this" team.

When SS is in foul trouble we coach around it. When KP has a bad game we coach around it. When Cooke or KD are injured we coach around it.

I don't think anybody here is saying Scoochie should play all 40 minutes or just keep playing when he has 2 fouls in every situation. But there may come a game/situation where he may have to let Scoochie play with 2 fouls.

This is all coming out of the frustration with Crosby being unable to adequately play the PG position for any extended period of time. If Archie wants to sit Scoochie with 2 fouls I think a lot of people on this forum would much rather see Darrell or Kyle come in than Crosby at this point.

I mean if Crosby were on your softball team I'm betting you'd want him benched or at least DH'ed for by now

Gazoo · #48 02-01-2017, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

So let me understand what you are saying. Are you saying that Archie knows how to coach?

No, I got this. Hold my beer.

Gazoo · #49 02-01-2017, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

I don't think anybody here is saying Scoochie should play all 40 minutes or just keep playing when he has 2 fouls in every situation. But there may come a game/situation where he may have to let Scoochie play with 2 fouls.

This is all coming out of the frustration with Crosby being unable to adequately play the PG position for any extended period of time. If Archie wants to sit Scoochie with 2 fouls I think a lot of people on this forum would much rather see Darrell or Kyle come in than Crosby at this point.

I mean if Crosby were on your softball team I'm betting you'd want him benched or at least DH'ed for by now

It's hypothetically possible, but generally speaking I would say no. Making radical adjustments to your game plan makes for good theater but poor coaching. That's why you don't yank Mikesell from the starting lineup when XW has a few good games, or bench Crosby because he's playing badly, or expect Landers to come into a game and play 25 minutes when he's barely played to date.

Every game when a guy gets 2 fouls in the first half he sits. If you leave him in there, it could certainly work out. It could also make a player off balance because he knows this is a really different situation he's not used to.

If you leave him in with a 10 point lead and 2 fouls, when DON'T you play him with 2 fouls? That implies you would certainly keep him in when you're down 10--you can't let that game get out of hand. Or tied; the momentum going into the 2nd half could go either way. So basically there's no situation you sit him with 2 fouls.

Just stick to the game plan.

TerryK_67 · #50 02-01-2017, 06:23 PM

you guys that have written Crosby off will likely eat those words over the next two seasons.... Lighten up Francis!

T-Bone 84 · #51 02-01-2017, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by hessbz12

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but can someone after all this time, tell Crosby that he doesn't need to dribble right into the paint, right after he crosses mid court every. single. time? He's always in a rush. Sure Scooch quickens the pace, but there is a huge difference. Not like it would help, but I just wish Crosby would slow down and not go right into the paint. If I had a dollar for every time he dribbled into the paint and thus fumbled the ball away

If you had a dollar for every time he did that last night, you could almost buy a Value Meal at McDonald's.

And when you asked about someone telling Crosby that he doesn't need to dribble straight into the paint, I was immediately reminded of the climax of the movie "Tin Cup", where the director in the TV truck yells something like "Somebody tell him he doesn't need to hit it from there!"

I don't know if it's bullheadedness, stupidity, a lack of court awareness, or something else, but if he can't fix it, he won't be able to play much PG at this level of competition. That said, I hope he can fix it, because he seems like a decent kid. He just needs to SLOW DOWN and PAY ATTENTION!
Posted via Mobile Device

flyerfan4life · #52 02-01-2017, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

Kyle may not be a good pure pg, but he has always been savvy enough to know, in view of the clock and the game situation, what is required to win at any given time. He is not going to chuck a 3, or drive into a crowded zone if the score and clock dictate otherwise. Kyle knows his limitations, and has the game figured out.

As far as playing Kyle in place of Crosby, Arch is trying to win this game and this league right now. The last thing on his mind today is next year's point guard deficiency. He is going to be very intolerant of lousy pg play.

Kyle can spell Scoochie at the right moments, and he is a better option than DD or JC for short periods.

Wouldn't you think that Archie's First Choice to run the point with scoochie out of the game would be his senior that has been pivotal to our program over the last four years? If there was any chance Kyle had the skills to play point guard, he would be in there when SS is out. He simply doesnt have nearly a good enough "handle" to run the point. Hardly dribbles with his right hand. Frankly, Cooke would be the next best option after DD.

Smitty10 · #53 02-01-2017, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Wouldn't you think that Archie's First Choice to run the point with scoochie out of the game would be his senior that has been pivotal to our program over the last four years? If there was any chance Kyle had the skills to play point guard, he would be in there when SS is out. He simply doesnt have nearly a good enough "handle" to run the point. Hardly dribbles with his right hand. Frankly, Cooke would be the next best option after DD.

Actually, PG can probably be looked at in 2 ways. The person who brings the ball up court and the one who leads the offense when it gets there. So DD is the one who brings the ball up court and Kyle can start the plays once they get there.

flyerfan4life · #54 02-01-2017, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Actually, PG can probably be looked at in 2 ways. The person who brings the ball up court and the one who leads the offense when it gets there. So DD is the one who brings the ball up court and Kyle can start the plays once they get there.

That would take Kyle away from what he does best, which is scrapping for offensive rebounds and slashing. And again, he doesn't have the handle to run the point no matter how you want to spin it.

Smitty10 · #55 02-01-2017, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

That would take Kyle away from what he does best, which is scrapping for offensive rebounds and slashing. And again, he doesn't have the handle to run the point no matter how you want to spin it.

BS!!!! Kyle pretty much is Co-PG anyway when it comes to leading the offense. You must not have been watching much in the past four years. Once Scooch gets the ball into the half court, Kyle becomes as much as a ball handler as he does. Not quite as good mind you, but a heck of lot better than Turnover Crosby.

CT Flyer · #56 02-02-2017, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

That would take Kyle away from what he does best, which is scrapping for offensive rebounds and slashing. And again, he doesn't have the handle to run the point no matter how you want to spin it.

Do you really think Crosby has a good "handle"? If he has a better handle than Kyle then Kyle must really have a bad handle.

flyerfan4life · #57 02-02-2017, 07:15 AM

Well.....archie has now chosen 2 different guys to run the backup PG over him. He must know nothing. If KD were at all a pG his 6'0" 180 lb self would have played it at least once in his 4 year career.

Gazoo · #58 02-02-2017, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

You must not have been watching much in the past four years.

flyerfan4life and CT Flyer, you lost the argument. The key is to be the FIRST to say "you haven't been watching the same games I have". Smitty said it first, now any point you make is null and void.

KD has a poor handle. SS can dribble the ball 100 times with no danger. KD can dribble the ball 2 or 3 times tops without danger. They are totally different styles of handle. He has not dribbled the ball up the court against pressure more than a couple times in 4 years because he's not good at it. When KD gets the ball on the wing he does a very SMART job of handling the ball. Power dribble to create an entry pass = good. Straight line drive with the left hand = good. Smart enough to stay out of traffic = good. Making the difficult drives against traffic on all sides. . . the thing you need a PG to do when he has no one to pass to. . . bad.

If KD plays point the defense will not respect his driving ability and will overplay the passing lanes (no need to help like SS requires). So no entering the offense. That's exactly what they're doing to Crosby--daring him to drive into the middle. KD would be no better. DD is no better. Crosby must master the art of taking 3 hard dribbles making it look like he's GOING to drive into the middle and then back dribbling to enter the offense.

NJFlyr71 · #59 02-02-2017, 09:06 AM

Whether Kyle or someone else can or can not run as a stand in PG is not so much what the individual does as much as it is Archie's ability to make adjustments as he understands the needs of the team.

"Next man up" is not just a sayin' from the head coach.

If next man up can't deliver, he goes to the next man up again.

It may not be the most desirable, but Archie plays the hand he has as best he can.

Who that next man up is .... is the one who Archie feels delivers what the team needs when the team needs it.

We have seen this for some time now and I continue to trust in him.

Go Flyers!

CT Flyer · #60 02-02-2017, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

flyerfan4life and CT Flyer, you lost the argument. The key is to be the FIRST to say "you haven't been watching the same games I have". Smitty said it first, now any point you make is null and void.

KD has a poor handle. SS can dribble the ball 100 times with no danger. KD can dribble the ball 2 or 3 times tops without danger. They are totally different styles of handle. He has not dribbled the ball up the court against pressure more than a couple times in 4 years because he's not good at it. When KD gets the ball on the wing he does a very SMART job of handling the ball. Power dribble to create an entry pass = good. Straight line drive with the left hand = good. Smart enough to stay out of traffic = good. Making the difficult drives against traffic on all sides. . . the thing you need a PG to do when he has no one to pass to. . . bad.

If KD plays point the defense will not respect his driving ability and will overplay the passing lanes (no need to help like SS requires). So no entering the offense. That's exactly what they're doing to Crosby--daring him to drive into the middle. KD would be no better. DD is no better. Crosby must master the art of taking 3 hard dribbles making it look like he's GOING to drive into the middle and then back dribbling to enter the offense.

You are making my point...KD, while maybe not the perfect solution, has no worse a handle than Crosby and therefore IMO would be better because he has better decision making skills and basketball IQ.

flyerfan4life · #61 02-02-2017, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by CT Flyer

You are making my point...KD, while maybe not the perfect solution, has no worse a handle than Crosby and therefore IMO would be better because he has better decision making skills and basketball IQ.

Crosby, without a DOUBT, has a much better "handle" than KD. As I said, if there was ANY evidence in Archie's eyes that KD could play the point, he'd naturally be the next man up. He doesn't have those skills...never has.

CT Flyer · #62 02-02-2017, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Crosby, without a DOUBT, has a much better "handle" than KD. As I said, if there was ANY evidence in Archie's eyes that KD could play the point, he'd naturally be the next man up. He doesn't have those skills...never has.

You may be right about KD but I just don't see Crosby as having a good handle either.

Gazoo · #63 02-02-2017, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by CT Flyer

You may be right about KD but I just don't see Crosby as having a good handle either.

There aren't many people who can handle the ball in a phone booth with 2 other defenders. Crosby is no exception, even though his handle is actually pretty darn good. His problem is: stop dribbling into the g**da** phone booth.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #64 02-02-2017, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

There aren't many people who can handle the ball in a phone booth with 2 other defenders. Crosby is no exception, even though his handle is actually pretty darn good. His problem is: stop dribbling into the g**da** phone booth.

I still have faith, that one of these days either yet this season of prior to the start of next season, John "Clark Kent" Crosby will emerge from that phone booth as the superman we expect him to be!

San Diego Flyer · #65 02-02-2017, 01:27 PM

If there were two point guards left on this earth, I'd pick Kyle. The problem is he became an even better off-guard.

http://www.scout.com/college/basketb...cks-the-flyers

To wit--

For Davis he was out to prove all summer long that he is indeed a point guard and not a shooting guard. He feels he did that and he can prove it while on the floor for the Flyers.

"Over the last year I really stepped my game up a lot and showed people that I am on my way to being a point guard so people will stop saying I am a shooting guard," said Davis. "I just wanted to show people I am a real point guard."

He continued, "I committed to Dayton because after sitting down with my family and talking to Coach Nick (Irvin), the decision was based on which school was best for me. They play my style of play and I have the opportunity to come in and do big things because they lost their starting point guard Kevin Dillard."

Smitty10 · #66 02-02-2017, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

flyerfan4life and CT Flyer, you lost the argument. The key is to be the FIRST to say "you haven't been watching the same games I have". Smitty said it first, now any point you make is null and void.

KD has a poor handle. SS can dribble the ball 100 times with no danger. KD can dribble the ball 2 or 3 times tops without danger. They are totally different styles of handle. He has not dribbled the ball up the court against pressure more than a couple times in 4 years because he's not good at it. When KD gets the ball on the wing he does a very SMART job of handling the ball. Power dribble to create an entry pass = good. Straight line drive with the left hand = good. Smart enough to stay out of traffic = good. Making the difficult drives against traffic on all sides. . . the thing you need a PG to do when he has no one to pass to. . . bad.

If KD plays point the defense will not respect his driving ability and will overplay the passing lanes (no need to help like SS requires). So no entering the offense. That's exactly what they're doing to Crosby--daring him to drive into the middle. KD would be no better. DD is no better. Crosby must master the art of taking 3 hard dribbles making it look like he's GOING to drive into the middle and then back dribbling to enter the offense.

First of all, this started when I suggested Baby D ball handle up the court while Kyle leads the offense when he gets there. As for the defense not respecting his driving ability, I remember going to the elite 8 and don't remember our PG that season having a lot of driving ability.

flyerfan4life · #67 02-02-2017, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

If there were two point guards left on this earth, I'd pick Kyle. The problem is he became an even better off-guard.

http://www.scout.com/college/basketb...cks-the-flyers

To wit--

For Davis he was out to prove all summer long that he is indeed a point guard and not a shooting guard. He feels he did that and he can prove it while on the floor for the Flyers.

"Over the last year I really stepped my game up a lot and showed people that I am on my way to being a point guard so people will stop saying I am a shooting guard," said Davis. "I just wanted to show people I am a real point guard."

He continued, "I committed to Dayton because after sitting down with my family and talking to Coach Nick (Irvin), the decision was based on which school was best for me. They play my style of play and I have the opportunity to come in and do big things because they lost their starting point guard Kevin Dillard."

Nice find...but even in his own quote it says that he's trying to prove to people that he can be a point guard and that he's "on his way" to being one. Obviously hasn't done that to Archie yet over 3.5 years. Again, I've never seen Kyle bring the ball up the floor and do a cross over or spin move against tight defense. He's just a quick first step and straight line dribble guy. Let me be clear, though, he's one of my favorite Flyers of all time. Love the way he plays. I just wouldn't want to see him playing the point.

flyerfan4life · #68 02-02-2017, 03:01 PM

But I do stand corrected on my comment that he wasn't a PG in high school....it even lists him that way on ESPN's site. Just never saw a highlight of him bringing the ball up the court or in a PG spot on the floor. Although I find it weird that he was a 4 star with scout and a 2 star with ESPN somehow.

maddog07 · #69 02-02-2017, 03:36 PM

Crosby was a point guard in hs too. How's that going now? Big tie college ball is another solar system for what they faced. But having watched evey minute he's played I'm all for trying anything but JC.

Still some posters still support him. Don't know how he could be worse- perhaps if he just punted balls directly into the seats!

San Diego Flyer · #70 02-02-2017, 03:55 PM

I'm not advocating that Kyle is a Scoochie. But neither is he void of pg experience such that giving Scooch a breather without having a shipwreck is out of the question. Not only is he a better option than Crosby right now, but also if we had really needed his services at point the last 3 years, he probably was a click better than when we pressed Roberts into duty as a pg. Defensive prowess factored in there as well.

Our issue is who subs for Kyle when he is at point.

flyerfan4life · #71 02-02-2017, 03:55 PM

I'm not in favor of playing Crosby another minute the rest of the year...but I'm also not in favor of KD running the point. There is a reason that he's never done it....especially if it's what he wanted to do when came here.

flyerfan4life · #72 02-02-2017, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

I'm not advocating that Kyle is a Scoochie. But neither is he void of pg experience such that giving Scooch a breather without being having a shipwreck is out of the question. Not only is he a better option than Crosby right now, but also if we had really needed his services at point the last 3 years, he probably was a click better than when we pressed Roberts into duty as a pg. Defensive prowess factored in there as well.

Our issue is who subs for Kyle when he is at point.

HaHaHaHaHa. So, let me get this straight. Kyle Davis, who came to UD with the goal to play point guard but hasn't played one minute as the point guard, would be a "click" better than the guy who is playing in the NBA as we speak?!?!

And to answer your last question...Darrell Davis would be your 2 guard when Kyle went to the point. Even though that will never happen and never should happen.

flyerfan4life · #73 02-02-2017, 04:03 PM

Not to mention that Roberts graduated in 2008. It sounds like you're suggesting KD should've played over Brian Roberts...but I'm certain you know that those two weren't even close in age, right?

Smitty10 · #74 02-02-2017, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

HaHaHaHaHa. So, let me get this straight. Kyle Davis, who came to UD with the goal to play point guard but hasn't played one minute as the point guard, would be a "click" better than the guy who is playing in the NBA as we speak?!?!

And to answer your last question...Darrell Davis would be your 2 guard when Kyle went to the point. Even though that will never happen and never should happen.

You know, when we only had 7 players two years ago, when Scooch went out for a breather, Baby D and KD were most likely in the game with Sibert. We were able to put together a great season. I don't remember Baby D running the offense in those situations.

NovaFlyer · #75 02-02-2017, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

I will comment on the CBSSN pregame/halftime show with the same thing I said in the game thread. CHANGE THE CHANNEL. Rothstein just repeats the same horrible cliches he uses on twitter. Danny Granger is simply clueless and can't read a highlight. And Jaime Erdhal needs to stick to sideline reporting because I've never seen her host a studio show and I knew within 30 seconds last night she was bad at it. Gary Parrish was the closest person to being competent on there.

As for the game I actually thought the color guy made a few good observations and was not on a some sort of campaign like Jay Bilas and Mark Adams always are which I really appreciated

We mute all TV broadcast games, worthless babble 90% of the time. Better to make up your own commentary.

NovaFlyer · #76 02-02-2017, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by maddog07

Crosby was a point guard in hs too. How's that going now? Big tie college ball is another solar system for what they faced. But having watched evey minute he's played I'm all for trying anything but JC.

Still some posters still support him. Don't know how he could be worse- perhaps if he just punted balls directly into the seats!

We learn from our mistakes and next year John C will be almighty!

San Diego Flyer · #77 02-02-2017, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

HaHaHaHaHa. So, let me get this straight. Kyle Davis, who came to UD with the goal to play point guard but hasn't played one minute as the point guard, would be a "click" better than the guy who is playing in the NBA as we speak?!?!

And to answer your last question...Darrell Davis would be your 2 guard when Kyle went to the point. Even though that will never happen and never should happen.

First, I'm well aware they did not play together. Not sure what I said that led you to that conclusion. What I am saying is that Roberts struggled initially at pg because it was not his natural position even though he was outstanding at the 2. There were many people who said it was a shame we could not play him at his best position. We were hurting for a point guard.

And yes, it is that edition of BRob that I compared to Kyle. Maybe that was before your time. Roberts, for the love we have for him, couldn't carry Kyle's jock as far as guarding the opponent's pg. Fans said many times it was a shame we could not play Roberts at his natural 2 position.

He developed his game at pg significantly after he left UD, to his credit.

C-time · #78 02-02-2017, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by NovaFlyer

We mute all TV broadcast games, worthless babble 90% of the time. Better to make up your own commentary.

Watching games without sound just seems strange to me. I actually thought the PBP and Color guy the other night weren't bad for the Fordham game. I've learned to just laugh at some of the commentators who are just reading off the SID provided information or the studio guys who are just parroting the opinion their producer has told them to have that night.

And for anyone who suggests listening to Larry & Bucky instead of the TV play-by-play and color guys. They aren't so bad that its worth the trouble syncing up the TV to the audio stream from WHIO for me.

CE80 · #79 02-02-2017, 04:56 PM

Some of you are getting spoiled. It wasn't that long ago that I only saw maybe 1 game per season on tv and typically my only way of keeping up with the Flyers was reading the line score the next day in the newspaper. Listening to Bucky and Larry was not an option. Someone else explain what a newspaper is for those that don't know. I'm good with whatever network is carrying the game and I don't care who is doing the broadcast. Most of the time I am not even paying that close attention to what they are saying.

Smitty10 · #80 02-02-2017, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

Some of you are getting spoiled. It wasn't that long ago that I only saw maybe 1 game per season on tv and typically my only way of keeping up with the Flyers was reading the line score the next day in the newspaper. Listening to Bucky and Larry was not an option. Someone else explain what a newspaper is for those that don't know. I'm good with whatever network is carrying the game and I don't care who is doing the broadcast. Most of the time I am not even paying that close attention to what they are saying.

You forgot to add the worst part. That one TV game was the NIT.

Canonball · #81 02-02-2017, 07:22 PM

Hope he figures out how to steer away from the phone booth by March. They can muck it up for ten minutes against Fordham, but it won't fly in meaningful A10 tournament games and certainly not in the Big Dance should the Flyers find themselves on the floor.

flyerfan4life · #82 02-02-2017, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

You know, when we only had 7 players two years ago, when Scooch went out for a breather, Baby D and KD were most likely in the game with Sibert. We were able to put together a great season. I don't remember Baby D running the offense in those situations.

Well, you may not remember it, but he did.

Smitty10 · #83 02-02-2017, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Well, you may not remember it, but he did.

Yeah, well, DD did bring the ball up the court with outlets ready. But once they got in the half court, he pretty much looked for his 3 point shot while KD handled the ball more. It worked out well because KD was the least likely to scare defenders from outside, shot fakes by DD and JS set up openings. The only thing that's changed is that KD seems to be a better shooter now and that would mean it would be harder for the defense(though, DD not so much).

But what's the difference, if your not going to use Crosby, you're going to have both DD and KD out on the court when Scooch gets a blow. You like DD as the pg, I like KD, AM will make the choice. Let's keep an eye out for who's handling the ball more in the halfcourt. Maybe you're right, I believe I am.

We'll see as long as neither one of has to suffer through Crosby anymore.

flyerfan4life · #84 02-02-2017, 08:42 PM

Dont recall that...but we can agree on your last sentence.

John C. · #85 02-02-2017, 11:47 PM

I love Scoochie but even he has his limitations. As long as we can get the ball past the half court line, we will be fine. What Scoochie adds that the others guys have limitations on is his ability to score from anywhere on the court. He can hit a three to win a game and there isn't anyone on the team I would rather take the last shot. However he is not a big assist guy. The team shares assists and they can do that when he takes a break. He just can't foul out. I don't want either of the Davis' being the point guard in the last minute of the game.

CT Flyer · #86 02-03-2017, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by John C.

I love Scoochie but even he has his limitations. As long as we can get the ball past the half court line, we will be fine. What Scoochie adds that the others guys have limitations on is his ability to score from anywhere on the court. He can hit a three to win a game and there isn't anyone on the team I would rather take the last shot. However he is not a big assist guy. The team shares assists and they can do that when he takes a break. He just can't foul out. I don't want either of the Davis' being the point guard in the last minute of the game.

I'm confused because there are a couple of threads talking about the PG position and a few posts recently have suggested they wouldn't want KD or DD as PG at the end of a game. I don't think that's what anyone was saying originally. EVERYONE can agree that we wouldn't want anybody except Scoochie running the point at the end of the game. What is in question is the minutes that JC has been playing when he spells Scoochie. I think there are many of us on this board that would rather see KD or DD run the point during those times.

flyerfan4life · #87 02-03-2017, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

First, I'm well aware they did not play together. Not sure what I said that led you to that conclusion. What I am saying is that Roberts struggled initially at pg because it was not his natural position even though he was outstanding at the 2. There were many people who said it was a shame we could not play him at his best position. We were hurting for a point guard.

And yes, it is that edition of BRob that I compared to Kyle. Maybe that was before your time. Roberts, for the love we have for him, couldn't carry Kyle's jock as far as guarding the opponent's pg. Fans said many times it was a shame we could not play Roberts at his natural 2 position.

He developed his game at pg significantly after he left UD, to his credit.

You're all over the place. Guess we'll just move on. I still stand by my original stance that there is a reason that our senior guard who has done everything right since he's gotten here wouldn't be the first option at backup PG IF he was even remotely fit for that position in Archie's eyes. KD came here wanting to play PG and still hasn't. There is a reason for that and it's not just because he's turned in to a much better SG.

Gazoo · #88 02-03-2017, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

You're all over the place. Guess we'll just move on. I still stand by my original stance that there is a reason that our senior guard who has done everything right since he's gotten here wouldn't be the first option at backup PG IF he was even remotely fit for that position in Archie's eyes. KD came here wanting to play PG and still hasn't. There is a reason for that and it's not just because he's turned in to a much better SG.

If he was shooting 45% from 3 and averaging 18 PPG, you would not move him to PG. But c'mon. There's nothing he could not provide from the PG position if he was a good option to play there. He's just not.

BRob2Perryman3 · #89 02-03-2017, 12:54 PM

Right now this is being looked at backwards. Is Kyle a natural PG? No. Can he start at PG? No. Would he be a better option RIGHT NOW over Crosby? YES. No one can sanely disagree with that.

longtimefan · #90 02-03-2017, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

Right now this is being looked at backwards. Is Kyle a natural PG? No. Can he start at PG? No. Would he be a better option RIGHT NOW over Crosby? YES. No one can sanely disagree with that.

Agree, but I think the issue is whether Kyle would be a better option than DD to back up Scoochie.

CT Flyer · #91 02-03-2017, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

Agree, but I think the issue is whether Kyle would be a better option than DD to back up Scoochie.

I'll take either so long as it's not JC!

flyerfan4life · #92 02-03-2017, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

Right now this is being looked at backwards. Is Kyle a natural PG? No. Can he start at PG? No. Would he be a better option RIGHT NOW over Crosby? YES. No one can sanely disagree with that.

First of all....the argument is whether he's a better option than Darrell. However, I sanely disagree with it anyway. If Kyle were pressured full court he'd have a helluva time getting the ball up the floor due to his lack of ball handling skills. Teams would simply pressure the heck out of the ball and it would create havoc and turnovers on the opponents side of the court. Honestly though, Cooke would be a better option than KD too. Heck, Cooke may be a better option than DD, but it's a negligible difference there. John can get the ball up the floor against man to man ball pressure but his issue is knowing what to do with it in the half court once he drives to the lane. If he has one thing going for him, it's that he can get past almost anyone.

frisco flyer · #93 02-03-2017, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

Right now this is being looked at backwards. Is Kyle a natural PG? No. Can he start at PG? No. Would he be a better option RIGHT NOW over Crosby? YES. No one can sanely disagree with that.

Another question: would KD be a good option as back up PG next year? NO.

We need to develop JC now, and the only way to do it is to give him PT NOW and be patient. I wish his progression had been faster, but we are where we are and we have to play the cards we're dealt.

Gazoo · #94 02-03-2017, 03:52 PM

None of us are in the huddle or practice. I could be wrong. But, I would sanely suggest that JC will continue to back up SS every game for the rest of the season. He has had a bad spell. If your bosses gave up on you as quickly as you want Miller to give up on JC, you'd all be in the unemployment line.

BRob2Perryman3 · #95 02-03-2017, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by CT Flyer

I'll take either so long as it's not JC!

Took the words right out of my mouth. If i remember correctly Darrell was referred to as a combo guard in recruiting circles. Combo guard to me says someone can competently play both positions. I first heard the term in regards to Ramod Marshall. And as we all know he was a more then serviceable PG

Runnin' Rebel · #96 02-03-2017, 07:44 PM

Archie will absolutely make sure Crosby gets minutes... as someone mentioned, he needs PT to improve.

Additionally, Archie will likely tighten up the rotation at the end of the year and on through the tournaments.

But in those tournaments, we may need a Crosby or Miller to step in for some crucial minutes - that's when Archie will expect the PT throughout the season to pay off.

Smitty10 · #97 02-03-2017, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

None of us are in the huddle or practice. I could be wrong. But, I would sanely suggest that JC will continue to back up SS every game for the rest of the season. He has had a bad spell. If your bosses gave up on you as quickly as you want Miller to give up on JC, you'd all be in the unemployment line.

I don't think it's "giving up on". AM has a tendency of letting players cut their teeth early in the season and if they aren't progressing, giving a lot less minutes later in the season when things get more crucial. Hey, he might improve from this point on. But really, have you ever seen a more pathetic display from a 2nd string PG over a series of games as we have with JC? Last season JC's minutes seemed to climb all the way to the 3/4 point of the season and then slid back to almost nothing there after. He's certainly not progressing like just about every sophomore we've seen in the AM era. If there are better options, AM will probably cut his minutes way down and think "we now know what we have to work on and we'll pick this up again in the offseason.

If there are better options, sometimes you forego that for game time experience. But when you have 4 seniors who are your nucleus, you have to stop doing that to let them have the best possible team success as you approach March.

San Diego Flyer · #98 02-04-2017, 10:17 AM

John has the best 3 point shooting % on the team at 46% and 6/13. He's got that going for him.

Ok this is where someone says, but the 7 misses were either air-balls or they broke glass the glass.

Just sayin'.

CT Flyer · #99 02-04-2017, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

John has the best 3 point shooting % on the team at 46% and 6/13. He's got that going for him. Ok this is where someone says, but the 7 misses were either air-balls or they broke glass the glass.

Just sayin'.

Actually a few of the ones he made nearly broke the rim and glass!

jack72 · #**100** 02-04-2017, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

John has the best 3 point shooting % on the team at 46% and 6/13. He's got that going for him. Ok this is where someone says, but the 7 misses were either air-balls or they broke glass the glass.

Just sayin'.

Don't confuse this emotional hate chant with positive facts.