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03-19-2019, 09:41 PM
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Phil Martelli Fired
Another what have you done for me lately...you get old, you get put out to pasture. He was a good ambassador for college basketball. Enjoy retirement Coach and don't let UDSCOTT tell you it should have been done 20 years ago!
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03-20-2019, 05:28 AM
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Lol
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03-20-2019, 08:23 AM
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An unfortunate occurrence.
I heard someone in Brooklyn say something about coaching his last game, so apparently it wasn't a shock to SJU fans.
With the passing of his father a few weeks ago, I have to wonder if the separation was somewhat mutual.
Who knows, he may be the next Jim Calhoun taking a job building a program at a D3 school.
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03-20-2019, 09:01 AM
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IMO, this was a big mistake.
24 years, 7 ncaat, 6 nit...so he goes to 1 of the 2 prestigious postseason tourneys about every other year, for a small school like SJU, that is pretty darn good IMO.
IMO, they will not be able to find somebody that can do better than that.
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03-20-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
IMO, this was a big mistake.
24 years, 7 ncaat, 6 nit...so he goes to 1 of the 2 prestigious postseason tourneys about every other year, for a small school like SJU, that is pretty darn good IMO.
IMO, they will not be able to find somebody that can do better than that.
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Fran Dunphy is available. Won't even have to sell his house.
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03-20-2019, 09:44 AM
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Major General
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Guy was really hit by the bad injury bug the last couple years...
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03-20-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar
Fran Dunphy is available. Won't even have to sell his house.
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Funniest thing I've read on here in awhile! Kudos my man.
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03-20-2019, 10:46 AM
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Brigadier General
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I recognize Dunphy as a solid coach that had a solid career; but if I had to pick one, give me Phil Martelli all day every day and a thousand times on Sunday.
UDSCOTT cannot say should have been done twenty years ago, because less than 20 years ago Coach Martelli and the Hawks were ranked #1 in These United States.
And to quote the great Ted Kissell, "If Saint Joes can do more with with less, than so be it."
And they did, alot more, compared to virtually every Division one program in the nation. Coupled with their Philadelphia location and their extensively above average head coach, the Hawks stayed regionally, conference, and often Nationally relevant, for the past 25 years; during a time in the sport, when the great majority of schools with 3,000 students, became completely irrelevant. Martelli is one of the best tournament time coaches in the history of basketball; no matter his roster, they competed.
Finally, regardless of what the next coach does or does not do; you don't "Fire" legends, like Donoher, Thomas Wade Landry, or Phil Martelli. Don't ever fire a personality that is an "Institution" within your institution; it's bad politically, it's bad for business, and it is managerial ignorance.
There exist far too many other methods of addressing said situation; and thus there is no reason to magnify the problem for everyone to see.
Thank you Coach Martelli for the rivalry and all that you have contributed to the sport, the Atlantic Ten Conference, and to the young men that played for you. You truly did "More with Less" better than anyone else.
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03-20-2019, 10:57 AM
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So let me get this straight, this board would be OK with three losing seasons in a row as long as the coach was a legend?
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03-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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No one indicated that in anyway.
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03-20-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
No one indicated that in anyway.
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Read some of the posts above.
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03-20-2019, 11:13 AM
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You show us where someone posted they have "No Problem" with three losing seasons? One poster indicates they think its a mistake, but they did not indicate three losing seasons is not any kind of an issue.
If Grant has three losing seasons in the next four or five years, then it is obviously a huge problem; but when he gets a quarter of a century under his tenure, it becomes a much different evaluation. It is just that simple!
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03-20-2019, 11:20 AM
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UD's siimilar situation
Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
You show us where someone posted they have "No Problem" with three losing seasons? One poster indicates they think its a mistake, but they did not indicate three losing seasons is not any kind of an issue.
If Grant has three losing seasons in the next four or five years, then it is obviously a huge problem; but when he gets a quarter of a century under his tenure, it becomes a much different evaluation. It is just that simple!
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A few decades ago we had a similar situation with DD. As we experienced, this is a difficult time for SJU....but they made a necessary decision. And, in my opinion, it reflects SJU's committment to excellence in BB. Good for the A10.
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03-20-2019, 11:31 AM
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Right, I was an adult already in college when Coach Donoher was fired. I remember it well, as I was on the basktetball court at the downtown Dallas YMCA when I heard the news.
However, I think you missed the point of my original post. I never indicated it wasn't an issue of concern; but rather it is a mistake to "fire" a 25 year head coach. It does too much internal and shorterm and/or long-term damage to the program and university. It alienates every player that played for that coach, for a very longtime to come, and you don't need to compound the problem when other administrative remedies exist, that will do far less damage in the short run.
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03-20-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
Right, I was an adult already in college when Coach Donoher was fired. I remember it well, as I was on the basktetball court at the downtown Dallas YMCA when I heard the news.
However, I think you missed the point of my original post. I never indicated it wasn't an issue of concern; but rather it is a mistake to "fire" a 25 year head coach. It does too much internal and shorterm and/or long-term damage to the program and university. It alienates every player that played for that coach, for a very longtime to come, and you don't need to compound the problem when other administrative remedies exist, that will do far less damage in the short run.
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What were the other administrative remedies?
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03-20-2019, 11:44 AM
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Excellent question for a fifth grader; but if you have to ask, there would no explaining it to you. If there is half a dozen, there exist 100, and it should be pretty much self explanatory kind of stuff.
You should send in your resume for flyer feedback.
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03-20-2019, 11:45 AM
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Remedies?
Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
Right, I was an adult already in college when Coach Donoher was fired. I remember it well, as I was on the basktetball court at the downtown Dallas YMCA when I heard the news.
However, I think you missed the point of my original post. I never indicated it wasn't an issue of concern; but rather it is a mistake to "fire" a 25 year head coach. It does too much internal and shorterm and/or long-term damage to the program and university. It alienates every player that played for that coach, for a very longtime to come, and you don't need to compound the problem when other administrative remedies exist, that will do far less damage in the short run.
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SJU didn't use the term "fired"...they are making a change in program leadership and heaped praise on Martelli. Hopefully his departure is amicable.
What are other administrative "remedies"? Further, if the situation is handled tactfully and with respect for Martelli's contributions I don't see why past players will be alienated. They aren't happy with SJU's slide of the past few years and understand that a change is necessary.
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03-20-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
Excellent question for a fifth grader; but if you have to ask, there would no explaining it to you. If there is half a dozen, there exist 100, and it should be pretty much self explanatory kind of stuff.
You should send in your resume for flyer feedback.
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Wow way to be mature about a conversation on a college basketball message board, sounds like maybe you are a 5th grader.
I am assuming you mean they could have asked him to resign...how do we know they didn't and he refused?
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03-20-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
SJU didn't use the term "fired"...they are making a change in program leadership and heaped praise on Martelli. Hopefully his departure is amicable.
What are other administrative "remedies"? Further, if the situation is handled tactfully and with respect for Martelli's contributions I don't see why past players will be alienated. They aren't happy with SJU's slide of the past few years and understand that a change is necessary.
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Be careful UAC Beatty might belittle you for not knowing what the other remedies might be.
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03-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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I sure hope SJU has a plan because I think this is a huge mistake. first off it was not mutually agreed upon (read Dana O'Meill's article in the Athletic today on the departures Martelli and Dunphy). His teams always compete and he always has good talent. SJU is a 3000 student school in the A10 and the third best program in Philly. I have no idea what they expect in the new hire but I think they reek joining the other schools with small gyms and similar enrollments in the A10 as they do being elevated. we'll see.....
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03-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...li-34-year-run
He might have been given an alternative:
"Bodensteiner also told the AP that she would let Martelli address whether he had a chance to retire on his own terms, but Martelli told the media outlet that he was spending the day with his family and declined further comment."
Respones to articles on Philly.com indicate that while it might have been time for a change, they do not like the way it appears to have been handled, and don't like that the firing was on the feast of St. Joseph.
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03-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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And before we praise SJU for the way they handle it, imagine letting a legend go and announcing it via prepared press release with a prominent typo before even going him a chance to process it. I think this was a bad job by e new AD.
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03-20-2019, 12:03 PM
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All they have to do is hire one of Martelli's assistants and they'll be fine.
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03-20-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
All they have to do is hire one of Martelli's assistants and they'll be fine.
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I just don't see that. why not allow for a smooth transition that prevents this kind of bad look for the school. give him a year to transition and say good bye and everyone is the better for it. this smells like the new AD having something in mind and to make a mark.
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03-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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As opposed to saying that other posters indicated they would be okay with three losing seasons? No one ever indicated that; and so when you go there, you are leading down a dissingenuous fox hole. You were not being honest, so there is no discussing it with you. I am not going to change my position or explain something to you, that you obviously have no desire to acknowledge. Like I said, it was a shrewd question for a fifth grader, or Bedell, but not for a sophisticated professional.
I love Anthony Grant, but at this point he is no Phil Martelli (seen Lloyd Benson), at-least not yet. I summarize like this: Jameer Nelson is not overly interested in helping Saint Joes accomplish too much right now...just saying. Therefore, I would have handled it differently, and yes there is dozen different scenarios that are far better than a "firing" of 30 year head coach. It practically goes without saying, and with all do respect, I cannot belive the two of you are attempting to inquire as to explanation of what some of the options might have been. I know the two of you are much smarter than that, I know that you are. There is not enough time under the sun for me to explain the thousand incremental scenarios utilizable in this situation.
But since you want to be so elementary about it, how about announcing that next year will be Coach Martelli's farewell season. You get healthy, you win 20 plus games, you make the A10 finals, you either get an NCAA bid, or you make a run to the NIT Finals, etc., and you wakeup after next season with a completely different taste in everyone's mouth. Martelli rides off into the sunset and lives in Saint Joes Philly Big Five Folk Lore forever; and this morning (next year), you can go to Jameer Nelson and Delonte West, and say would you guys please stay close to the program.
Is it really that hard? No it is not!
Last edited by Beatty Town Coach; 03-20-2019 at 12:16 PM..
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03-20-2019, 12:13 PM
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Difficult for the AD
Originally Posted by AC91
And before we praise SJU for the way they handle it, imagine letting a legend go and announcing it via prepared press release with a prominent typo before even going him a chance to process it. I think this was a bad job by e new AD.
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This is a no-win matter for the new AD in the short run.
And do you recall how DD's departure and replacement selection were handled by our long-time, highly experienced AD?
There's nothing easy about this.
Re longtimer's suggestion...perhaps there is a qualified assistant on the staff. But the AD has to evaluate candidates having HC experience. Soon we'll know.
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03-20-2019, 12:19 PM
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It would not be a no-win situation, if you handled it differently.
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03-20-2019, 12:59 PM
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Wishful thinking...
Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
But since you want to be so elementary about it, how about announcing that next year will be Coach Martelli's farewell season. You get healthy, you win 20 plus games, you make the A10 finals, you either get an NCAA bid, or you make a run to the NIT Finals, etc., and you wakeup after next season with a completely different taste in everyone's mouth. Martelli rides off into the sunset and lives in Saint Joes Philly Big Five Folk Lore forever; and this morning (next year), you can go to Jameer Nelson and Delonte West, and say would you guys please stay close to the program.
Is it really that hard? No it is not!
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Beatty, the scenario you paint sounds great. I'm certain that SJU's AD would love it. Unfortunately, just as likely if not more is yet another sub-par season. Executives have to make decisions. And as a new AD you can be sure SJU's AD sought plenty of advice before deciding to make a change.
If Martelli loves and is loyal to SJU, after some reflection he'll be helpful and thoughtful with his comments. It's reasonable to assume that the AD has had conversations with Martelli about the BB program and that his dismissal is not a shock to him. He knows that BB is about winning and HCs are paid a great deal of money to do so. He also knows that the further a program slips the harder it is to recover.
Hopefully Coach Martelli understands all this and will work to help ensure success at SJU....a school that has ensured that he is set for a very, very financially comfortable retirement. Most likely after a brief period he'll land a nice part time job as a Philly commentator.
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03-20-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Beatty, the scenario you paint sounds great. I'm certain that SJU's AD would love it. Unfortunately, just as likely if not more is yet another sub-par season. Executives have to make decisions. And as a new AD you can be sure SJU's AD sought plenty of advice before deciding to make a change.
If Martelli loves and is loyal to SJU, after some reflection he'll be helpful and thoughtful with his comments. It's reasonable to assume that the AD has had conversations with Martelli about the BB program and that his dismissal is not a shock to him. He knows that BB is about winning and HCs are paid a great deal of money to do so. He also knows that the further a program slips the harder it is to recover.
Hopefully Coach Martelli understands all this and will work to help ensure success at SJU....a school that has ensured that he is set for a very, very financially comfortable retirement. Most likely after a brief period he'll land a nice part time job as a Philly commentator.
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Dana O'Neill's article after talking with him indicated he seemed pretty surprised.
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03-20-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
All they have to do is hire one of Martelli's assistants and they'll be fine.
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That and have a 15/15 schedule
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03-20-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
All they have to do is hire one of Martelli's assistants and they'll be fine.
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Originally Posted by UD62
That and have a 15/15 schedule
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I think UD62 is one of the few who realized I was being sarcastic.
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03-20-2019, 02:09 PM
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This thing with Martelli is a disaster and a major PR mistake in my opinion. If you're a younger coach with nothing to lose; go for it. But if you've been anywhere with success, why would you want to attempt to fill Martelli's shoes? I don't just think Martelli is a good coach, I think he's a fantastic coach - one I'd dread having to face if I were in the A10. He's a HOF coach at a small school, does it the right way and this is what he gets? I think someone had an axe to grind and right now probably feels really good...until the next 3 seasons unfold. Good luck in life Coach Martelli, I hated going against your teams BECAUSE they were so good.
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03-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
This thing with Martelli is a disaster and a major PR mistake in my opinion. If you're a younger coach with nothing to lose; go for it. But if you've been anywhere with success, why would you want to attempt to fill Martelli's shoes? I don't just think Martelli is a good coach, I think he's a fantastic coach - one I'd dread having to face if I were in the A10. He's a HOF coach at a small school, does it the right way and this is what he gets? I think someone had an axe to grind and right now probably feels really good...until the next 3 seasons unfold. Good luck in life Coach Martelli, I hated going against your teams BECAUSE they were so good.
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By my estimation, UD is 22-19 against the Hawks. Far from what I'd call a comfortable win for us. Plus, I can remember countless years where we were the more talented team without question, yet we somehow lost. Hmm, wonder how that was? Certainly not that we were flat out-coached?
As a UD fan, I agree. Good riddance! As a basketball fan, Martelli has my vote for an exceptional coach.
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03-20-2019, 03:10 PM
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Most of the post I've read on a St. Joes board seem to applaud the move and think that it was time to move in a new direction.
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03-20-2019, 04:14 PM
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03-20-2019, 10:21 PM
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Lol, you folks crack me up...the last 10-15 hc's VCU, Butler, and Xavier have hired have all been either in-house assistants or a one-time assistant, but no, we would not want to mimic what 3 programs, that have all been a lot more successful than us, do.
And hey, let's not change the scheduling model that has delivered us better than a 7 seed a grand total of 1 time over the last 50 years, and has lead us past the round of 32 a grand total of 2 times over the last 50 years. No, the better option is to just continue burying our head in the sand and keep doing the same thing and hope that somehow things will get better someday.
And oh yeah, I forgot, boy oh boy, that great A10 conference keeps getting worse every year now, that is really going to help our seeding in the ncaat. So, again, let's not upgrade our ooc schedule, let's just keep sliding backwards as a program.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Last edited by ud2; 03-20-2019 at 10:34 PM..
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03-20-2019, 11:39 PM
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Definitely wish he wasn't "fired" at the end of the day. Unfortunately, I am willing to bet the multi-year contract he signed last October probably had certain clauses and financial ramifications, for both parties.
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03-21-2019, 12:17 AM
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The contract...
Originally Posted by shocka43
Definitely wish he wasn't "fired" at the end of the day. Unfortunately, I am willing to bet the multi-year contract he signed last October probably had certain clauses and financial ramifications, for both parties.
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Since PM was not dismissed for "cause" it's a near certainty that SJU is on he hook to pay Martelli his full pay for the entire term of the contract. Any lawyer would insist on that. He's in great shape financially.
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03-21-2019, 01:23 PM
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When LSU fired Miles there was a similar reaction and I understand why. In that case he had won a NC and up to the last couple of years was competing for SEC titles. At the same time if you keep doing the same things and everybody has you figured out then you likely hit your ceiling. Dude had talent all over the field, including at wide receiver, but insisted on 3 yards and a cloud of dust (not too mention extremely questionable clock management skills for a coach at that level). The game changed he didn't keep up. What top tier QB in their right mind would have wanted to go play for Miles? LSU's handling of that situation was extremely poor but he had to go. Not certain they're better off with the Ogeron but they seemed to get back on track last year. We'll see in that case in the long run. I don't know the history leading up to DD's firing, but my understanding is that by-in-large the program was functioning in the 80's and the 'game' so to speak was passing him by. Sometimes a change is exactly what's needed to avoid a program going completely stagnant .... bigger issue was putting JOB into a job he wasn't ready for, nor capable of handling.
Last edited by Canonball; 03-21-2019 at 01:29 PM..
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06-09-2019, 03:55 PM
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Phil Martelli has joined Juwan Howard's staff at Michigan. Should be a great sounding board for a first-time head coach.
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Mad Props to Flyer 79 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-09-2019, 04:57 PM
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Great hire for Juwan.
Originally Posted by Flyer 79
Phil Martelli has joined Juwan Howard's staff at Michigan. Should be a great sounding board for a first-time head coach.
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06-09-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball
...I don't know the history leading up to DD's firing, but my understanding is that by-in-large the program was functioning in the 80's and the 'game' so to speak was passing him by. Sometimes a change is exactly what's needed to avoid a program going completely stagnant .... bigger issue was putting JOB into a job he wasn't ready for, nor capable of handling.
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I’m far from a “program insider”, but I know that one thing that was troubling Coach Donoher in the time leading up to his firing was the death of his son Gary and the circumstances surrounding it. If ever there was a coach who needed a sabbatical, it was DD in the late 1980s, but that wasn’t generally done back then (if ever), so UD let him go instead. And yes, JOB was utterly the wrong choice to replace him (the 1-1 NCAAT record and 1 MCC title notwithstanding).
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Mad Props to T-Bone 84 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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