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Old 03-20-2019, 07:10 AM
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Smile Flyers exceed expectations in 2018-2019!

Tough 2-game stretch to end the season; however, the Flyers certainly exceeded my expectations in AG's 2nd year.

Say what you want... AG, the players and the coaching staff exceeded expectations this season. Some facts...

Miller's second season - Won 17 games, was a 12 seed in A-10 tournament (lost to the 5 seed in the opening round) and sat home to watch the NCAA, NIT and CBI tournaments that year.

Grant's second season - Won 21 games, was a 3 seed in the A10 tournament (lost to the A10 tourney champ in quarterfinals) and played in the NIT.

Not trying to turn this into a Miller bashing thread or an AG love fest... just being honest and realistic! You could certainly argue AG inherited a tougher situation than Miller. AG has us moving in the right direction and ahead of schedule (see facts above).

The future is bright!

Go Flyers!
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:39 AM
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The season is over and the Flyers are still "ahead of schedule." I still don't know what that means.

It's fine that you believe they exceeded your expectations. Others may have different expectations. To be completely honest the topic is exhausted at this point. 2019-2020 is put up or shut up time. The A10 is going to be good enough to likely lift up 4 or 5 teams into the the only basketball tournament that matters. The excuses are gone. I'm looking forward to it. Let's work on that schedule to help properly game the metrics.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
The season is over and the Flyers are still "ahead of schedule." I still don't know what that means.
It means rebuilding a program after a coaching change.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:13 AM
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Taken in the context of our performance in 2017-18, I agree that the team exceeded expectations and is moving in the right direction. Taken in the context of what the program is supposed to achieve in the long run (as stated, IIRC, by Tim Wabler at the time of Archie’s hiring), I believe the team met a portion of the expectation (playing in the postseason NIT or NCAA), but on the low end. So, while we definitely had a good season, and many of us believe a foundation has been laid for future success, we still have a ways to go.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:17 AM
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Metrics

Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
Let's work on that schedule to help properly game the metrics.
I wish I knew what that means. It seemed like NC State gamed the NET ranking and they ended up an NIT 2 seed.

Sorry, off-topic.

Outside of Trey, I hope we don't hear of any off season surgeries.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
I wish I knew what that means. It seemed like NC State gamed the NET ranking and they ended up an NIT 2 seed.

Sorry, off-topic.

Outside of Trey, I hope we don't hear of any off season surgeries.
Is the shoulder going in for a cut?
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:30 AM
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Enjoyed the season.
Great efforts with 7 players
Too inconsistent on offensive end
Example vs. Colorado......Obi goes to bench with 3 fouls.
Team plays well to build 7 point lead by penetrating
THEN we come down and cast a 3 early in shot clock and again
the next possession, they score twice......lead gone.
All year long we NEVER were able to step on a teams throat.
Maybe next year.

Have a great summer
Go Flyers!!
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:47 AM
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Grade B for Anthony And the staff
Made postseason with limited talent
Excellent development of Obi....hope not too good
Positive culture
Looks like solid team with transfers coming back
Minus...Cohill and Frankie didn’t add enough
Started season with short roster..hurt us in long run
Have to be tougher at the rim and much tougher on D
Better end game execution...players and coaches
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:54 AM
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I hope the Big East presidents stayed up late enough to see those expectations get exceeded.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
I hope the Big East presidents stayed up late enough to see those expectations get exceeded.
You may not have noticed, but there's separate, awe-inspiring thread on this very subject.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:16 AM
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Grant and staff probably could've made this year a little bit better than the results we witnessed by bringing in a Juco or grad transfer combo guard, and maybe by kissing Xeyrius Williams's ass last year to make him want to stick around for his senior year...but at the expense of the long term health of the program. I'm fine with a small sacrifice this year in exchange for a better team the next two years.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
The season is over and the Flyers are still "ahead of schedule." I still don't know what that means.

It's fine that you believe they exceeded your expectations. Others may have different expectations. To be completely honest the topic is exhausted at this point. 2019-2020 is put up or shut up time. The A10 is going to be good enough to likely lift up 4 or 5 teams into the the only basketball tournament that matters. The excuses are gone. I'm looking forward to it. Let's work on that schedule to help properly game the metrics.
Doubt the A-10 is likely to put 4-5 teams in the Dance next year. Took a loss by VCU to get two this year. With the NET in place, the P5 schools simply have to play each other, be reasonably close to .500 in those games( maybe not so close in some cases) and they take a spot from a non-P5 school. Maybe we get 2-3 on a good year, and as long as we are one of those, all is good.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Excellent development of Obi....hope not too good
This is positive coming from Obi talking about 2019-20: “We have a starting five, and then we’ve got another starting five right on the bench.”
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:49 AM
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The loss of Mottos was huge. I really think with him in the lineup we at least beat Tulsa, VCU once, Rhodi, and SLU last Friday. Why? He would’ve provided much needed Mrest for our starters. With lack of depth, I will say we met expectations.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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As I posted before, I had low expectations based upon youth and the performance of the team last year. The injury to Matos tempered my enthusiasm. This team performed much better, but also missed some real opportunities to shine. It was not all roses.
There were some disappointments from the near misses and the 2-3 eggs that were laid. Every D1 team lays at least one egg during the season.

For the most part they played well, given their talent level and injuries. I won't be surprised to learn of injuries on this year's team that were never disclosed. At least two players did not seem to be 100% down the stretch.

The expectations of making the NCAA and competing for the A10 championship next year are realistic given the reports of the redshirts in practice.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:39 AM
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The team exceeded or met my expectations for this year. Given we only have three decent starters at the end in Obi, Ryan and Jalen, well done Coach and team. Don’t know what is wrong with Cunningham, but he is not right. His speed and quick jump are gone and now so is he. The guy made some decent short range jumpers last year, but almost none this year. Davis was good at times but needs a confidence rebuild. Landers is a role player unless he gets some outside shooting. Cohill has a decent skill set, but his playing against mediocre talent in HS may have showed this year.

I like Matos, but no one can say we saw enough to know he would have helped, other than another body. I am excited about next year like I was excited about Obi before this season.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
This is positive coming from Obi talking about 2019-20: “We have a starting five, and then we’ve got another starting five right on the bench.”
Does that make Landers number 11?
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Thing about Matos that I liked was the energy level jumped up a notch or two. That kind of intensity, especially on defense, is invaluable. We need a Kyle Davis, Marcus Johnson type lock-down defender. We also need a Sibert, Scooch type player who can hit outside shots when it's needed most. Personally, I'm excited to see how this develops in the next couple of years. IMO UD is poised for another great run. Time will tell.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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If the trend holds, then UD wins 25 games next year. GO FLYERS!
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:29 AM
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Basing performance to an expectation and then comparing the results to the prior coaching staff is an apple & orange approach. I would submit that expectations would fall in 3-4 buckets:

Recruiting
Development
In game management
Results

I don't give a crap what AM did, it is irrelevant and nothing more than historical data. By using the prior staff, you effectively put a lid on what is possible.

My expectations are based on the above.

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Old 03-20-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Taken in the context of our performance in 2017-18, I agree that the team exceeded expectations and is moving in the right direction. Taken in the context of what the program is supposed to achieve in the long run (as stated, IIRC, by Tim Wabler at the time of Archie’s hiring), I believe the team met a portion of the expectation (playing in the postseason NIT or NCAA), but on the low end. So, while we definitely had a good season, and many of us believe a foundation has been laid for future success, we still have a ways to go.
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I agree with you regarding the program's overall and general expectations.

The problem is that when your coach leaves and the cupboard is bare, and the new coach has to clean house because you have guys who want to get in bar/jail fights, guys who want to play Fortnight more than basketball and guys who think their last name makes them great as well as a couple guys who were just recruiting misses, you can't label this year a failure. There has to be some connection between expectations and the reality of who is on the floor. Next year is a totally different situation. With the exception of Trey and Davis and Mikesell (none of whom appear to be problems to me) everyone on the team is an AG recruit so if there are misses, or problems with character or what have you that is rightly laid at AG's feet.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Does that make Landers number 11?
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Basing performance to an expectation and then comparing the results to the prior coaching staff is an apple & orange approach. I would submit that expectations would fall in 3-4 buckets:

Recruiting
Development
In game management
Results

I don't give a crap what AM did, it is irrelevant and nothing more than historical data. By using the prior staff, you effectively put a lid on what is possible.

My expectations are based on the above.
You beat me to this post. I don’t care what AM did in season 2...that was 6-7 years ago? This program was supposed to be moving forward. Now we’re right back to “exceeding expectations” of “rebuilding a program because coaching changes”. I don’t want to rebuild the program. I want to enhance it and streamline the process when coaching changes are met. I’d give this season a C+ only for the fact I expected a NIT birth.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:25 PM
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I can't wait to see how John Crosby, McKinley Wright, Jordan Davis, Sam Miller, Ryan Mikesell, Trey Landers, Jordan Pierce, and Xeyrius Williams carry the Flyers to the Final Four in March 2019!
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
You beat me to this post. I don’t care what AM did in season 2...that was 6-7 years ago? This program was supposed to be moving forward. Now we’re right back to “exceeding expectations” of “rebuilding a program because coaching changes”. I don’t want to rebuild the program. I want to enhance it and streamline the process when coaching changes are met. I’d give this season a C+ only for the fact I expected a NIT birth.
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The reality of coaching changes is this: If the school in question has the name Duke, Kentucky or North Carolina, etc..a coaching change/rebuild to greatness is 0-1 year because those schools are already at the pinnacle so Calipari can just walk in and say to 7-8 current players "your services are no longer needed" (and the UK AD is perfectly fine with that) and then he immediately takes his picks of whatever 4-5 star recruits he want and all is well by the start of the season - in fact, they are already top 10-20 preseason ranked just based on all the hamburger all-americans you have.

If you're a mid-major like Dayton,....You can "want" all you want with respect to immediate success, the reality of it is that it's at best a 2-3 year process to undue the damage/defections left behind from the old coach. That's just the way it is. Setting the bar extremely high after a coach leaves a school like Dayton where 2-3 guys immediately opt out of their scholarships and then 2-3 others don't like the direction of the new coach just makes it all that more difficult. Had Dayton regressed to a 10-22 record this year...considering the injuries...I almost would have been ok with it, especially when you see what Ford has gone through at St. Louis. Instead all I see is people complaining about "its not good enough/fast enough" after Dayton goes 21-11 for the season with an NIT bid. For those people, remind yourself where this is at and where it's not (Dayton, not UK). And I'll add...based on the experience level from last year to this, the number of unknowns, etc...This team over-achieved. Do I expect an NCAA bid next year? Probably, but that's only because I saw what this team did this year so I add another year of experience under the belt and add in likely 5 players I see as immediate contributors.

Last edited by longtimefan67; 03-20-2019 at 01:51 PM.. Reason: additional content
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:54 PM
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Yesterday on Patrick Ewing's show on Sirius XM he was talking about their rebuild, which coincides exactly with ours time wise. He said he was very excited that they had the program moving in the right direction and that he felt that they were on schedule. He said he was disappointed they didn't make the NCAA this year but was happy they were back in the conversation and playing in a post season tourney after being under .500 last year. He said the NIT is a great opportunity for the program to continue to build toward next year. Sound familiar?

He also said he really wants to hang an NIT banner for the school because they don't have one yet.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
You beat me to this post. I don’t care what AM did in season 2...that was 6-7 years ago? This program was supposed to be moving forward. Now we’re right back to “exceeding expectations” of “rebuilding a program because coaching changes”. I don’t want to rebuild the program. I want to enhance it and streamline the process when coaching changes are met. I’d give this season a C+ only for the fact I expected a NIT birth.
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I don't know how you can say this after losing Scoochie Smith, Kyle Davis, Kendall Pollard, Charles Cooke, and Ryan Mikesell (injury), and being left with players like Pierce (attitude), Williams (attitude), Crosby (lack of talent), Svoboda (lack of talent), and freshmen Davis and Crutcher, and Landers being basically a redshirt freshman. Kostas helped, but wasn't nearly as effective as he could have been. Anybody not expecting a two or three year transition/rebuilding period is simply not being realistic.
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post

Miller's second season - Won 17 games, was a 12 seed in A-10 tournament (lost to the 5 seed in the opening round) and sat home to watch the NCAA, NIT and CBI tournaments that year.

Grant's second season - Won 21 games, was a 3 seed in the A10 tournament (lost to the A10 tourney champ in quarterfinals) and played in the NIT.
Big difference: 2012-2013 there were 5 A-10 tourney teams, this year only 2 (lucky to get 2). The A-10 was far superior that year.

I'm pleased with the direction of the program, but definitely a missed opportunity this year,with the conference being so down and a first team all A-10 player appearing out of nowhere.

Was there one game we won this year we shouldn't have? At Davidson?
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Basing performance to an expectation and then comparing the results to the prior coaching staff is an apple & orange approach. I would submit that expectations would fall in 3-4 buckets:

Recruiting
Development
In game management
Results

I don't give a crap what AM did, it is irrelevant and nothing more than historical data. By using the prior staff, you effectively put a lid on what is possible.

My expectations are based on the above.
I agree 100%! #1 on my list would be recruiting. It is the lifeblood of any program. I think that we have in Anthony Grant one of the best recruiters that this school has ever had! Don Donoher, in his prime was the best at #2 development. He took the average player and made him better with each season (Keith Waleskowski). Brian Gregory, not so much (Chris Wright comes to mind because he was just as good as a freshman). AM was better at development and #3 in game management but I feel is not the recruiter that AG is. I think Dwayne Cohill who I think will develop into a great player for the Flyers in the future (especially when he solves the first step walking problem) stated that AM said he can do better than Dayton because he was a highly rated 4 star! When AG took over he made Cohill feel wanted again by making him a number one priority!

I love Anthony Grant and feel that he is highly respected in the coaching fraternity! He has high morals and is a good representative for the University of Dayton. With a limited bench a 21-12 record, 3rd place in the A-10 and an NIT bid which was not forcasted by any preseason publications I think he is right on schedule. We were a little short on talent this season (Obi being the exception) but next season with AG's transfers and incoming recruits I feel we will return to and stay in the top echelon of the A-10 and remain there. The goal should be the NCAAT every season!
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
I agree 100%! #1 on my list would be recruiting. It is the lifeblood of any program. I think that we have in Anthony Grant one of the best recruiters that this school has ever had! Don Donoher, in his prime was the best at #2 development. He took the average player and made him better with each season (Keith Waleskowski). Brian Gregory, not so much (Chris Wright comes to mind because he was just as good as a freshman). AM was better at development and #3 in game management but I feel is not the recruiter that AG is. I think Dwayne Cohill who I think will develop into a great player for the Flyers in the future (especially when he solves the first step walking problem) stated that AM said he can do better than Dayton because he was a highly rated 4 star! When AG took over he made Cohill feel wanted again by making him a number one priority!

I love Anthony Grant and feel that he is highly respected in the coaching fraternity! He has high morals and is a good representative for the University of Dayton. With a limited bench a 21-12 record, 3rd place in the A-10 and an NIT bid which was not forcasted by any preseason publications I think he is right on schedule. We were a little short on talent this season (Obi being the exception) but next season with AG's transfers and incoming recruits I feel we will return to and stay in the top echelon of the A-10 and remain there. The goal should be the NCAAT every season!
I agree with everything except Keith Waleskowski. He was special from the get go. He was a better rebounder his freshman year than anybody on the current team.
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post

If you're a mid-major like Dayton,....You can "want" all you want with respect to immediate success, the reality of it is that it's at best a 2-3 year process to undue the damage/defections left behind from the old coach.
Completely understand your view.

I just don't subscribe to it. I think high expectations drive high results. Butler, X, Gonzaga, have over come the mid major label to move to better league/national prominence. X & Butler have accomplished it in spite of several coaches. As long as 13,000+ fans show up, and big "donations" are made to get good seats, there's little motivation for the administrative side to change their process. Better transitions between coaches can and do happen. Ironically, the "new coach - transition seasons" model takes heat off the admin and puts it on the floor.

Note....the admin side has changed from the "stepping stone" approach of hiring with Purnell, BG, and AM....when they went after AG, and I'm assuming that they are banking on him to put together a much longer high performance run than 5 years. If that's what's behind the decision, it's a departure from previous philosophies. Now that's something we can commend the admin side for having the ability to recognize and make a change.

We'll see.
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Completely understand your view.

I just don't subscribe to it. I think high expectations drive high results. Butler, X, Gonzaga, have over come the mid major label to move to better league/national prominence. X & Butler have accomplished it in spite of several coaches. As long as 13,000+ fans show up, and big "donations" are made to get good seats, there's little motivation for the administrative side to change their process. Better transitions between coaches can and do happen. Ironically, the "new coach - transition seasons" model takes heat off the admin and puts it on the floor.

Note....the admin side has changed from the "stepping stone" approach of hiring with Purnell, BG, and AM....when they went after AG, and I'm assuming that they are banking on him to put together a much longer high performance run than 5 years. If that's what's behind the decision, it's a departure from previous philosophies. Now that's something we can commend the admin side for having the ability to recognize and make a change.

We'll see.
When I ran into Neil at the Tulsa game at Mohegan Sun and got a chance to chat with him for about five minutes he was saying how everyone was saying that next year is THE year but he said he wanted this year to be an NCAA tournament year and that he thought there was a real chance for that to happen. That was early in the season so I don't think this admin is one that was thinking about a longer transition process, they wanted it this year.
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2019, 05:05 PM
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I WON'T comment on entire year , aside from I'm pretty happy.

3 comments.

1. IF Matos not injured, we probably win 2 to 3 more games

2. While Obi was a great second half of year improvement. It also altered how often Josh got ball in the post. Affecting jcs output. Not saying it's bad of course Obi found his rhythm. Just saying that chemistry and positioning changed some. As evidenced in Josh's #'s

3. St Louis may turn out to be more solid than anyone thought. They r tough. What if they win two games now?

What I saw in person in Brooklyn was pretty impressive

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Old 03-20-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
When I ran into Neil at the Tulsa game at Mohegan Sun and got a chance to chat with him for about five minutes he was saying how everyone was saying that next year is THE year but he said he wanted this year to be an NCAA tournament year and that he thought there was a real chance for that to happen. That was early in the season so I don't think this admin is one that was thinking about a longer transition process, they wanted it this year.
don't get me wrong. I WANTED it too. And I am disappointed with how it ended. However, I believe we were not that far off. unfortunately with the injuries to Mhatos (clearly would have helped) and Trey (I believe we win VCU at UD arena with him, and if he's healthier late in the season, who knows), and the fact that Frankie wasn't ready, there was no where left to go. I thought most nights AG got all that he could have out of this team and they had a real chance in all but a couple of games. however, we never could push it over the hump against top tier opponents. Just because Neil said that's what he wanted this year, doesn't mean he will judge it the same way that he might in another year.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
I wish I knew what that means. It seemed like NC State gamed the NET ranking and they ended up an NIT 2 seed.

Sorry, off-topic.

Outside of Trey, I hope we don't hear of any off season surgeries.
I don’t believe NCState “gamed” the NET. One reason - the NET metrics aren’t public or transparent. Second reason - it was year one of the NET, so there’s no history either with which to base a schedule to attempt to “game” it. Third reason - whatever NCState did, either backfired or was certainly incomplete.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Does that make Landers number 11?
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If Landers is 11, does that make Cohill number 12?
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Doubt the A-10 is likely to put 4-5 teams in the Dance next year. Took a loss by VCU to get two this year. With the NET in place, the P5 schools simply have to play each other, be reasonably close to .500 in those games( maybe not so close in some cases) and they take a spot from a non-P5 school. Maybe we get 2-3 on a good year, and as long as we are one of those, all is good.
Are you suggesting the NET is slanted to favor the P5 schools? I suspected that, but don’t have enough concrete data to confirm it. NCState and I think Indiana both had much higher NET’s than RPI, but I found just as many, if not more, non-P5 teams who had better NET than RPI, although not as disparate as NCState and Indiana. If they released the NET calculations, it would certainly help.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:07 PM
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We're number 63!

Dayton Flyers power rankings:

Kenpom. . . . . . . 60
Sagarin . . . . . . . 71
ESPN BPI . . . . . 55
Teamcast . . . . . 60
Teamrnkings. . . 64
NET . . . . . . . . . 69

Average . . . . . . 63.2

Out of 353 teams - 82.1 percentile, better than my preseason expectations.
Next year I think Dayton gets some votes in the polls - if they crack the Top 25 they've beaten my expectations two years running.

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Old 03-20-2019, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Wont comment on entire year , aside from I'm pretty happy.

3 comments.

1. Matos not injured, we probably win 2 to 3 more games

2. While obi was a great second half of year improvement. It also altered how often Josh got ball in the post. Affecting jcs output.
3. St lou may turn out to be more solid than anyone thought.

What if they win two games now?

What I saw in person in Brooklyn was pretty impressive
I kind of referenced this in a post last weekend, re: SLU. They were the class of the league 7 weeks ago and then hit a number of speed bumps, but grinded enough to get to the finish line in Brooklyn.

SLU won AT Seton Hall. SLU was beating Houston, AT Houston, with under a minute to play. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see SLU win against VaTech and certainly expect them to stay within the 10 point spread. Note - SLU beat VaTech at MSG last year.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Basing performance to an expectation and then comparing the results to the prior coaching staff is an apple & orange approach. I would submit that expectations would fall in 3-4 buckets:

Recruiting
Development
In game management
Results

I don't give a crap what AM did, it is irrelevant and nothing more than historical data. By using the prior staff, you effectively put a lid on what is possible.

My expectations are based on the above.
The reason AM is brought up is to show the hypocrisy of folks who think AM walked on water, but think Grant is a bust. If two seasons is all that’s necessary to judge a coach, then Archie was also a bust.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bp View Post
The reason AM is brought up is to show the hypocrisy of folks who think AM walked on water, but think Grant is a bust. If two seasons is all that’s necessary to judge a coach, then Archie was also a bust.
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No one thinks am walked on water. It’s ok for grant to not be good without thinking AM is great. Not saying I agree or disagree about AG hire yet but they are not dependent on one another.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
No one thinks am walked on water. It’s ok for grant to not be good without thinking AM is great. Not saying I agree or disagree about AG hire yet but they are not dependent on one another.
It’s really about putting things in perspective. It takes time to regroup when you are left with a mess as AG was. We are ahead of where I thought we’d be right now.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
If Landers is 11, does that make Cohill number 12?
Probably. Hard to see him get many minutes next year.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:01 PM
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I wish some of you naysayers would bring something new to the table. It is the same arguments I have heard all year. You ignore the obvious just to slant things in your direction. Not sure how you could look at the talent level of this team and expect an NCAA bid. Make all of the arguments that you want about how it is Grant's fault, but they just don't hold water. The level of talent he was left was substandard at best. Why do you think Miller left when he did? He knew he would not have a better chance to leave in the foreseeable future. Add to that, several that he left behind had non talent related issues that we all are aware of.

Dayton is not UK, or Duke or even Xavier. Some of that is what conference we are in, the inability to hire the right coach that was both good enough to make us great and care enough to stay and maybe even horrible luck, if you can call it that, with respect to Steve's death. UD was not going to be much better if Miller stayed and I would guess that we would not have had the potential of being really good next year with him. He had one good recruiting class and several that were mediocre. To assume that he would magically become a great recruiter over the last two years is a stretch at best.

Let's see what next year brings. Year three is the year of real evaluation, even Miller believed that. Grant will pretty much have created HIS team at that point. If he fails next year, I will likely come over to your side, but I have seen little to make me even lean in that direction during the last two years. Anthony Grant is the kind of man that you want to lead this program. He is impressive in the way that he approaches his job. He is someone that we can be proud of, someone that you would be happy to call a friend. Not so sure I could say that about some former coaches I have come into contact with.

Talk to me in a year.
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  #45  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Probably. Hard to see him get many minutes next year.
I really think and hope this '19 team can play more zone.
And secondly, possibly Havoc Light. So trapping at halfcourt ball pressure along the way.

I really believe we have the personnel for it. Next year.
It also gets minutes to the Landers and Cohills of the UD World
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
I wish some of you naysayers would bring something new to the table. It is the same arguments I have heard all year. You ignore the obvious just to slant things in your direction. Not sure how you could look at the talent level of this team and expect an NCAA bid. Make all of the arguments that you want about how it is Grant's fault, but they just don't hold water. The level of talent he was left was substandard at best. Why do you think Miller left when he did? He knew he would not have a better chance to leave in the foreseeable future. Add to that, several that he left behind had non talent related issues that we all are aware of.

Dayton is not UK, or Duke or even Xavier. Some of that is what conference we are in, the inability to hire the right coach that was both good enough to make us great and care enough to stay and maybe even horrible luck, if you can call it that, with respect to Steve's death. UD was not going to be much better if Miller stayed and I would guess that we would not have had the potential of being really good next year with him. He had one good recruiting class and several that were mediocre. To assume that he would magically become a great recruiter over the last two years is a stretch at best.

Let's see what next year brings. Year three is the year of real evaluation, even Miller believed that. Grant will pretty much have created HIS team at that point. If he fails next year, I will likely come over to your side, but I have seen little to make me even lean in that direction during the last two years. Anthony Grant is the kind of man that you want to lead this program. He is impressive in the way that he approaches his job. He is someone that we can be proud of, someone that you would be happy to call a friend. Not so sure I could say that about some former coaches I have come into contact with.

Talk to me in a year.
And next year we can say wait til next year again? What have you brought to the table to help this team improve? AM left the cabinet bare? AG brought on 3 of his freshman so he must have seen something. I’m not saying it’s all AG but I will continue to say the program as a whole shouldn’t have to take 3 steps back for every 2 forward. That is the prototype midmajor mentality
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
And next year we can say wait til next year again? What have you brought to the table to help this team improve? AM left the cabinet bare? AG brought on 3 of his freshman so he must have seen something. I’m not saying it’s all AG but I will continue to say the program as a whole shouldn’t have to take 3 steps back for every 2 forward. That is the prototype midmajor mentality
Exactly
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
I really think and hope this '19 team can play more zone.
And secondly, possibly Havoc Light. So trapping at halfcourt ball pressure along the way.

I really believe we have the personnel for it. Next year.
It also gets minutes to the Landers and Cohills of the UD World
Hopefully the new bigs will play well. We really struggled against physical teams. We need interior strength.
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  #49  
Old 03-20-2019, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
I agree with you regarding the program's overall and general expectations.

The problem is that when your coach leaves and the cupboard is bare, and the new coach has to clean house because you have guys who want to get in bar/jail fights, guys who want to play Fortnight more than basketball and guys who think their last name makes them great as well as a couple guys who were just recruiting misses, you can't label this year a failure. There has to be some connection between expectations and the reality of who is on the floor. Next year is a totally different situation. With the exception of Trey and Davis and Mikesell (none of whom appear to be problems to me) everyone on the team is an AG recruit so if there are misses, or problems with character or what have you that is rightly laid at AG's feet.
I’m not saying this season was a failure. On the contrary, the team showed great progress this year, increasing the win total by 7 (or 50%, if you consider 14 wins last year vs. 21 this year), despite a short bench. And we had a united TEAM for the first time since Girlfriend-Gate derailed Big Steve’s only season in a Flyer uniform. What I am saying is that 21-12 and 1-and-done in the NIT can’t be the “destination” - it must be a step on the journey, and a “do no worse than” measuring stick for the future.
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  #50  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
And next year we can say wait til next year again? What have you brought to the table to help this team improve? AM left the cabinet bare? AG brought on 3 of his freshman so he must have seen something. I’m not saying it’s all AG but I will continue to say the program as a whole shouldn’t have to take 3 steps back for every 2 forward. That is the prototype midmajor mentality
Point by point:
-Next year is truly “next year”. If we don’t make the NCAA Tournament in 2020, with the depth and supposed talent we’ll have at our disposal, then you’ll have a lot more people willing to carry pitchforks and torches. For this year, given the situation last year, yes it’s “wait til next year”.
-You question the claim that AM left the cupboard bare, yet you ignore the void that 4 graduating Seniors left, as well as the relative level of success that each of the remaining players has had. Let’s review this topic again, once Sam Miller, Xeyrius Williams, and John Crosby complete their eligibility at their new schools.
-AG brought on 3 of his freshmen, so he must have seen something. Yes, he did. WARM BODIES who had committed to play basketball for the University of Dayton. And he would have also brought on Wright and Carter, had they chosen to keep their commitment to UD. It’s telling that, of the 6 players who were signed-on to be freshmen at UD in 2017-18, only 1 remains.
-I agree that a program with our resources shouldn’t have to take repeated steps backward, but the programs that don’t take steps backward are the ones that can successfully promote assistants without skipping a beat. Please name for me the UD assistant coaches from the past 30 years who have become successful head coaches at any level of D-I ball. The list will be extremely short at this point, I’m sure.
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  #51  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:01 AM
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21-12 and NIT is not acceptable as an average standard for the program. It was acceptable for this season.
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
21-12 and NIT is not acceptable as an average standard for the program. It was acceptable for this season.
Well said. Thank you!
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:41 AM
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The issue people have is that before the season every single one of us was in agreement. In fact, even some of the most despised on this board that talk pure nonsense and vitriol most of the time didn't even predict this team would win more than 14 games. So when the season begins, it's how the losses are actually viewed game by game that don't sit well with the naysayers, which also happen to be the ones that really have never played a real structured sport in their lives and are the least knowledgeable.

There is no certain or specific way to win or lose a basketball game. The weaknesses of a team rear their ugly head far more often than they don't and that was the case with this team this year. People think these weaknesses are so easily correctable but so many of them are because of a lack of size or post play or depth. UD got better in so many ways but not enough to counter so many key points and stretches in games that their opponent was simply better in/at.

Most around don't understand this is a process and unless Zion Williamson or just a couple others walk in here there's not an overnight fix.

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  #54  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
The issue people have is that before the season every single one of us was in agreement. In fact, even some of the most despised on this board that talk pure nonsense and vitriol most of the time didn't even predict this team would win more than 14 games. So when the season begins, it's how the losses are actually viewed game by game that don't sit well with the naysayers, which also happen to be the ones that really have never played a real structured sport in their lives and are the least knowledgeable.

There is no certain or specific way to win or lose a basketball game. The weaknesses of a team rear their ugly head far more often than they don't and that was the case with this team this year. People think these weaknesses are so easily correctable but so many of them are because of a lack of size or post play or depth. UD got better in so many ways but not enough to counter so many key points and stretches in games that their opponent was simply better in/at.

Most around don't understand this is a process and unless Zion Williamson or just a couple others walk in here there's not an overnight fix.
I do understand it. Most simply are spoiled to the 4 year run during Archie’s last 4 years. Most believe that had he stayed, we’d be on number 6 and counting (I’m not one of those believers- but thats another topic). Only the Dukes and Kentuckys of the basketball world can lose a coach and still be ranked the next season. I believe the UD administration has finally seen the light and now understand the fire you play with when hiring a young coach who is there to springboard himself to the next level. I think UD always thought they could just keep AM on board with just a fatter contract. Top programs need top talent every year to stay at the top. AM didn’t want to do that here. He wanted a premier job and he got it. Not saying he couldn’t have stayed and done it, he just wanted the prestigious job. AG wants to put the program up and set it up for long term success and its a process and I’m ok with that.
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  #55  
Old 03-21-2019, 10:27 AM
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Maybe I'm misreading something in Steve's post ^^. But to say most of us weren't predicting more than 14 wins? No way. The majority opinion on here was NIT, which is 20-23 wins given UD's schedule.
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  #56  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:30 AM
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I predicted and expected 20+ wins which now, after fully analyzing how our schedule played out a more reasonable expectation was probably 18-19.

We lost more at home than we should of and won a couple more on the road. My baseline every year is NCAA/NIT. I want the NCAA but in reality, we're going to have to go 14-4 or 15-3 every year in the A-10 or go 8-3 or better in OOC to be an at large lock in NCAAs.

We slightly exceed expectations this year. I'd like to have ended on a better note but we returned to prominance and had our team mentioned across national media pretty late in the season. That's a good season.

Next year expectations are higher. We need to learn to close out the tight games or just out talent/out work most teams and avoid the close ones. We should have the talent.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:47 PM
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A10 Championship and NCAA berth. :-)
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
The issue people have is that before the season every single one of us was in agreement. In fact, even some of the most despised on this board that talk pure nonsense and vitriol most of the time didn't even predict this team would win more than 14 games. So when the season begins, it's how the losses are actually viewed game by game that don't sit well with the naysayers, which also happen to be the ones that really have never played a real structured sport in their lives and are the least knowledgeable.

There is no certain or specific way to win or lose a basketball game. The weaknesses of a team rear their ugly head far more often than they don't and that was the case with this team this year. People think these weaknesses are so easily correctable but so many of them are because of a lack of size or post play or depth. UD got better in so many ways but not enough to counter so many key points and stretches in games that their opponent was simply better in/at.

Most around don't understand this is a process and unless Zion Williamson or just a couple others walk in here there's not an overnight fix.
If I wasn’t on my phone I would search and repost my prediction. Saying that people don’t come from structured sports is crazy. I come from a family played and coached basketball.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I’m not saying this season was a failure. On the contrary, the team showed great progress this year, increasing the win total by 7 (or 50%, if you consider 14 wins last year vs. 21 this year), despite a short bench. And we had a united TEAM for the first time since Girlfriend-Gate derailed Big Steve’s only season in a Flyer uniform. What I am saying is that 21-12 and 1-and-done in the NIT can’t be the “destination” - it must be a step on the journey, and a “do no worse than” measuring stick for the future.
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I can get behind your last sentence. I’m just afraid to many people are ok with this years results being acceptable every year.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:14 PM
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This year's results should be the floor. Once in every dozen years or so doing worse than that in a rebuilding year would be (barely) tolerable.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I can get behind your last sentence. I’m just afraid to many people are ok with this years results being acceptable every year.
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I’ve yet to see anyone who posts here state that 21 wins and an NIT is acceptable every year. What most are saying is that this team made great strides this year with a very short bench and that with a mass influx of talent next year we should be dancing. As Obi stated- We have a starting five on the court and another starting five on the bench.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I’m just afraid to many people are ok with this years results being acceptable every year. Posted via Mobile Device

I haven't seen ANYONE say that. It was acceptable THIS year because this year was a transition/rebuilding year.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I can get behind your last sentence. I’m just afraid to many people are ok with this years results being acceptable every year.
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If by acceptable you mean when it occurs not wanting the coach fired, upheaval of the roster, schedule ... then yes it’s acceptable.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:52 PM
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Apparently the key is to keep our expectations low!
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Apparently the key is to keep our expectations low!
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Keep the expectations in line with the talent on the floor. You can have higher expectations when Zion Williamson plays for your team.

Please help UD recruit the next Zion Williamson.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Apparently the key is to keep our expectations low!
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Apparently you haven’t read the posts very closely.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:04 PM
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So everyone is ok with last year and this year happening every 6 year cycle? Got it
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
So everyone is ok with last year and this year happening every 6 year cycle? Got it
Last year was a unique situation. Perfect storm of attitude, low skill level, general mayhem, that won't be happening again. this year was largely a result of last year with short bench and a bunch of transfers having to sit out. From all indications AG has recruited a strong group of players. Will there be a bad year now and then, probably, will there be a year like this one with an NIT bid, probably, will there be more years where we are Dancing, bet on it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
So everyone is ok with last year and this year happening every 6 year cycle? Got it
Depends on your “expectations”.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
21-12 and NIT is not acceptable as an average standard for the program. It was acceptable for this season.
Can sign up for this position.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
The issue people have is that before the season every single one of us was in agreement. In fact, even some of the most despised on this board that talk pure nonsense and vitriol most of the time didn't even predict this team would win more than 14 games. So when the season begins, it's how the losses are actually viewed game by game that don't sit well with the naysayers, which also happen to be the ones that really have never played a real structured sport in their lives and are the least knowledgeable.

There is no certain or specific way to win or lose a basketball game. The weaknesses of a team rear their ugly head far more often than they don't and that was the case with this team this year. People think these weaknesses are so easily correctable but so many of them are because of a lack of size or post play or depth. UD got better in so many ways but not enough to counter so many key points and stretches in games that their opponent was simply better in/at.

Most around don't understand this is a process and unless Zion Williamson or just a couple others walk in here there's not an overnight fix.
There may be some good points here. The tHread is about meeting expectations, not team development.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:37 PM
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Were our expecting to have zero quality wins? That what we had as our signature victory was over Butler with a losing record and Davidson who flamed out pretty much like us. This was not an acceptable season.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
So everyone is ok with last year and this year happening every 6 year cycle? Got it
I honestly don’t understand what you’re doing in this thread. Many folks have given honest, well thought-out opinions, and you keep responding with posts like this that add your own agenda and put words in people’s mouths.

Look, nobody is ok with the NIT as a goal for the season. Nobody wants us to change coaches every 6 years. Nobody. Try to find one shred of evidence to back up your straw man argument on this. You cannot. Nobody wants a sub-.500 season and a first round NIT loss. You can accept reality without liking it.

Let’s look at reality instead of putting words in people’s mouths. We hired an unproven assistant and he was wildly successful for a couple years. We got some lucky bounces on top of having a good, deep squad, and made an Elite Eight and won two tournament games the next year. We made the tournament two more years in a row, but the head coach had his eye on a bigger job all along, didn’t hire great assistants, and didn’t have a good succession plan for when he left. We had multiple off court issues, including a guy kicked out of school for a year, two others kicked out halfway through a season, a JuCo who flaked out and never played, another guy suspended for half a year, brought in a talented transfer who didn’t get along with the core three guys, we had a stud center die, a serious, near season-ending injury to a stud transfer, and we kinda sputtered at the end of the last two seasons. We didn’t bring in great recruiting classes for a couple years after the Scoochie/Kyle/Kendall class, and then the coach skips town despite UD offering top 10 in the country compensation.

We hired a new coach, the stud PG recruit leaves and heads to the PAC-12, as does our second best recruit. Our other incoming recruits are a center who apparently was not willing to try, a European guy who just wasn’t ready for D1 hoops, and Jordan Davis, who has played pretty well overall. I won’t get into a debate about him at this time. He’s played a lot of minutes for a sophomore. We also had a guy who ended up transferring to Delaware State, a guy who got kicked off the team after getting arrested, and then transferred to Charleston. We had a guy who was more interested in playing Fortnite than attending practice, and another guy who wasn’t particularly interested in staying at Dayton. All those guys are gone now.

This year, we started: a sophomore PG who was a very late addition, and almost went to prep school instead of playing here. A soph 2 guard who was recruited by the prior coach and who has some limitations. A RS senior big who looked hurt this year. A RS junior coming off of double hip surgeries. A RE freshman who was a total stud, possibly good enough to make the leap to the NBA. Off the bench, we have a junior who is a good glue guy, plays hard but is not a good shooter, a freshman who was highly regarded but had some offensive limitations, and another freshman who struggled to transition to the college game and had planned to be redshirted. We had a JuCo wing who filled a lot of holes, but he only played 5 games before season-ending surgery.

You can quibble with my descriptions of the roster, but this is the reality we faced this year. Could we have built the roster differently? 100%. Does the coach bear responsibility for how the roster is constructed - ie if we are shorthanded, it’s his doing? You betcha. If Kira Lewis or a grad transfer like Zach Johnson who ended up at Miami would have come here, would I have been “okay” with an NIT first round loss? Nope, but those guys didn’t come here and I think we will be better off for at least the next two years because we used our scholarships on transfers rather than on guys who didn’t have as much talent.

So here’s the deal: nobody is “accepting mediocrity” by thinking that this season was a good year under the circumstances. Nobody is okay with the NIT as the goal under almost any other circumstances. I think coach Grant is going to be here longer than 6 years. We already have better assistant coaches than we had under any of our last three or four head coaches. Would I trade one crappy transition year and one decent season for a leap to greater success going forward after a coaching change? Heck yeah. We ought to be *really* good next season and the season after that. TBD after the 2020-21 season since we don’t know enough about who will be on the team then. But on paper, we ought to be stacked the next two years. That’s the long game that coach Grant has been playing.

Again, reasonable people can disagree about whether this was the right play. We swung and missed on some top shelf level talent for this year such as Kai Jones, Anfernee Simons (current TrailBlazer), Zach Johnson, Kira Lewis, and JuCo guys like Wendell Mitchell (who went to A&M) and Shane Gatling (who just beat us on Tuesday night). If we had gotten any one of those guys, the strategy would have changed and the expectations for this season would have changed. So we opted for more of a rebuild since the reload didn’t happen.

I hope and expect that in the next 6 years, a season like this will be looked at as a disappointment. But *this* year, with *this* active roster? 3rd place in the conference, 7 conference road wins, an NIT berth? I’m cool with it. If we are in the NIT next year, I’ll be very disappointed. And so will everyone else. Even the strawmen.
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  #74  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Apparently the key is to keep our expectations low!
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If by “low” you mean “realistic” or “in context”, then yes that is the key. However, if by “low” you mean “at a CBI-bid level”, then you’re more off-course than Wrong-Way Corrigan.

A small but vocal number of people on this board simply refuse to acknowledge that Grant’s first 2 seasons here must be taken in the context of what was left behind (and what was lost) when Archie took advantage of his well-deserved opportunity to move into a P5 job. To wit:
-Scoochie Smith vs. John Crosby or McKinley Wright. Losing a 3-year starter and likely UD HOF-er, to be replaced by either a player with questionable D-I skills or one with unproven D-I skills. Then Archie left, Wright decommitted, and we were lucky to get a guy like Crutcher, but he has a ways to go to be Scoochie’s equal at possibly the most important position on the floor.
-Kyle Davis vs. Darryl Davis or Jordan Davis. Kyle had limited basketball skills, but great athleticism and the heart of a champion. Darryl had some skills but was wafer-thin, and Jordan had (has?) potential but was (and may still be) unproven. At this point, advantage Kyle.
-Charles Cooke vs. Ryan Mikesell or Trey Landers or Nahziah Carter or Matej Svoboda. Cooke is a borderline NBA talent. Chip is a jack-of-all-trades who will do whatever’s needed to win. Trey has major-league cojones and a decent dose of athleticism, but not much else. Carter is carving-out a niche at Washington, but still has a ways to go. Svoboda was a good “company guy”, but his game was obviously ill-suited to our level of D-I basketball. Decided advantage: Cooke.
-Kendall Pollard vs. Josh/Sam/Pierce/CaptainFortNite. Josh, in his prime, may have been Kendall’s equal, if not better. As for the rest, the comparison to a warrior like Pollard is embarrassing, and it tips the scale toward KP. Overall, call it a wash.

So, there’s your context. Look at the outgoing players. Look at the replacements. One “push”, one slight edge to the graduate, and two YGBSMs. Context. And, for a program that prides itself on high graduation rates and few-if-any NCAA sanctions, 21-12 and an NIT bid 2 seasons after this kind of a transition might be considered satisfactory progress.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:07 PM
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To follow up on maddog07...... the best wins are marginal accomplishments to be sure. Now, this is just to say there is not enough clarity to say good things about about the program in its current state.

I would ask Figgie to do the numbers, but I think a good guess is that both the mean and median of the team's wins is around 200 (if not over that).

200



How do you calibrate that into something meaningful? Expectations exceeded?

I go along partly with the concept of 'next year.' I say 'partly,' because it seems that 'crapping out' is not an inconceivable characteristic here.

I reiterate that Dayton will routinely put itself in position. I would want to know if AG has the makeup to deliver in telltale games.

He did not have what he needed. I understand that. I can wait too.
Honestly, this next year is to be very interesting. I would NOT want to hear about the reasoning behind why the NCAA bid did not manifest.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:18 PM
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That 200 number pertained to NET ranking.
I don't predict that AG won't succeed the next couple years either.

AG may find the A-10 to his liking..... I could envision the possibility......
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Were our expecting to have zero quality wins? That what we had as our signature victory was over Butler with a losing record and Davidson who flamed out pretty much like us. This was not an acceptable season.
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Then, I guess the last "acceptable season" a new-ish coach at UD had was when Donoher went 23-6 in his 2nd season, in 1965-66, and reached the Sweet 16. Since then:
-JOB Year 2: 1990-91, 14-15
-OP Year 2: 1995-96, 15-14
-BG Year 2: 2004-05, 18-11
-AM Year 2: 2012-13, 17-14
-AG Year 2: 2018-19, 21-12

I'll concede that, other than BG and AG, none of those records are anything to shout about. And I'll concede that we missed several opportunities to get "signature" wins this year. But I go back to "context".

From 1992-1995, our overall record was 17-67. Compared to that, OP's 15-14 in 1995-96 (a season when Chris Daniels died because of his heart condition) looked pretty d@mned good. Context. OP left a handful of pretty good players for BG, but they were all seniors-to-be. BG's 18-11 was built on a bunch of freshmen (B-Rob, Binnie, Meacham, Plummer, and others), most of whom didn't pan-out or finish at UD. Context.

As others have said on this board, Obi may have said it best when he said (and I paraphrase) "We have a starting 5 on the floor, and a starting 5 on the bench." That's why the realistic among us are (a) pleased with the general progress 2 years into a new coach/system/regime, (b) disappointed by the missed opportunities of this season, and (c) extremely optimistic about the prospects for next season. If we're 1-and-done in the NIT at the end of next season, I think 2/3 of this board will join you with pitchforks and torches. But many of those same 2/3 (including me) firmly believe that we're NCAA-bound 51 weeks from now. And that's a "realistic" belief.
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  #78  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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Why are we talking about the players on this thread when the trolls firmly believe a winning coach can take any five or seven students on campus, win the A10 and proceed to the Sweet 16? No excuses.

The players had nothing to do with the results of this season in their minds.
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  #79  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:49 PM
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If this season was the floor, would we accept that? Once every 5-6 years, perhaps? (As long as "the floor" doesn't become "the norm" like it did from about 2009-2013.)
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:50 PM
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The goal (expectation) every season should be to at least go 8-3 in the non-con and dominate the A-10 with at least a 14-4 record which would almost guarantee a conference championship or an at-large invitation to the NCAA Tournament. I believe this will happen next season!

If the above happens consistently threads like this one will cease to exist because we will meet expectations in 2019-20 and beyond. I say this with tongue in cheek because there will always be certain posters who won't be satisfied with anything and will always criticize AG just like a few are presently!

With everything that has happened to our program in the past 2 or 3 years with the coming and going of recruits, the getting rid of the misfits etc. include me with the majority who thinks a 21-12 record, 3rd place conference finish and an NIT invitation was not a disappointing season. It was genious of AG and his staff to put their efforts to next season with great transfers rather than wasting scholarships on less talented players.
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  #81  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
So everyone is ok with last year and this year happening every 6 year cycle? Got it
I would not be OK with a new coach that has to rebuild every 6 years
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I can get behind your last sentence. I’m just afraid to many people are ok with this years results being acceptable every year.
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That is such a BS comment I don't know where to start to refute it. So, I won't waste my time. There is a certain arrogance to your comment...
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  #83  
Old 03-21-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
I would not be OK with a new coach that has to rebuild every 6 years
If we're going to experience the success we hope to experience, coaching changes are the reality of that success. Guys like Few are few and far between. And it's not like UD wasn't ready and willing to pony up the resources that might've kept AM here. Unless we get lucky with an alum who is a little bit older and might be content to retire here.

Now hopefully, a succession plan develops and future HC changes can be ameliorated. But if you want successful coaches, you have to accept that they may leave. Hell, even Roy Williams left Kansas.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
Now hopefully, a succession plan develops and future HC changes can be ameliorated. But if you want successful coaches, you have to accept that they may leave. Hell, even Roy Williams left Kansas.
Hence the rebuild comment (though I suspect that as long as UD wants him, AG will stray)
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
That is such a BS comment I don't know where to start to refute it. So, I won't waste my time. There is a certain arrogance to your comment...
This is from the same Fu***r that said: "... Unfortunately, my guess is that he will not FOREGO some bizarre (and I suspect alcohol fueled) response.

omg, I will show you what arrogance is! Go hide.......
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  #86  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:30 PM
forego1 forego1 is offline
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Why are we talking about the players on this thread when the trolls firmly believe...
I admit I didn't read every post (at first). Then I went back and read posts that disagreed with the 'exceeding expectations' concept. No one said anything disrespectful or extreme.
So, I must conclude that a troll is someone who disagrees with you or the optimistic theme.

Seasonticketfan, why don't you be a stand-up-guy and name the trolls here?
I made a list of those who did not fall in line with the thread title to help you:

bcross, and the following who thanked him (Browns, Buster Goode, Flyerfanatic86, PhiPsi Flyer '09), then Tx Flyer, Jeff, Maddog 07.

As for myself, I may say terse things about the coach (as this is the fair territory of fan sites), but I don't go out of my way to put participating members down.
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  #87  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:31 PM
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T-Bone 84 T-Bone 84 is offline
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
If we're going to experience the success we hope to experience, coaching changes are the reality of that success. Guys like Few are few and far between. And it's not like UD wasn't ready and willing to pony up the resources that might've kept AM here. Unless we get lucky with an alum who is a little bit older and might be content to retire here.

Now hopefully, a succession plan develops and future HC changes can be ameliorated. But if you want successful coaches, you have to accept that they may leave. Hell, even Roy Williams left Kansas.
Obviously, the end of your first paragraph refers to AG, and I hope he has enough success that he wants to retire here, and that we want him to do so.

Regarding a succession plan, that's why I wouldn't mind one bit if someone like Kyle Davis or Ryan Mikesell winds-up being a Graduate Assistant here at some point in the near future. Flyers. Ballers. Guys who don't have an infinite amount of talent, but enough to play the game well, and enough "hoop smarts" to know how to play winning basketball. We'll see if we can become the next _avier or Butler, in terms of succession planning. Time will tell, but as the late, great Branch Rickey once said, "Luck is the residue of design." So, if we plan for the next phase after Grant (hopefully) retires after a successful career at the helm, we should be in good shape for years to come.
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  #88  
Old 03-22-2019, 06:45 AM
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I get the feeling that the known trolls just love to come into serious threads, rile everyone up for a few days, come back and make another sarcastic or derogatory remark about acceptable performance without looking at the obvious facts and then watch everyone explode.

So here’s my anti-troll comments: Anthony Grant was the perfect hire for this University.
*Last years clean house was necessary and he knew it- mission accomplished
*This years team over-achieved in a known down year for the A10 as they were still selected to be middle to bottom of the pack and finished 3rd. A couple of shots fall their way they could have easily finished tied for first.
*Despite a key early injury to JM, they still made the post season and finished the Top 60-70 NET and RPI
*Next year is looking really really good
*Anthony Grant is here for the long term success and I love it; no more pump and dump type of coaching carousel- this will create the proper long transition success UD has missed since the Blackburn/Donoher era

Peace out true fans
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  #89  
Old 03-22-2019, 08:07 AM
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Look we all want the Program to be great. I gave Anthony a B for this year and next year looks really good. Now it’s also ok to critique and not be labeled as Anti Grant. So the guy walked into a tough situation, cleaned house and to his credit got Jalen late and hit a home run with Obi, a kid no one was on. The team clearly was better this year and a culture has been established. However I posted back in Sept, it’s very difficult to start the year with 9 guys. We missed on a few recruits and then get the Matos injury. As good as the Crutcher and Toppin recruits were, Cohill and Frankie fell short of expectations. But with all that we win 7 road games and competedin almost every game. The jury will be out on end of game execution and better defense but with better players and good depth we should maul the A10 next year. Really good players eliminate coaches mistakes.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Look we all want the Program to be great. I gave Anthony a B for this year and next year looks really good. Now it’s also ok to critique and not be labeled as Anti Grant. So the guy walked into a tough situation, cleaned house and to his credit got Jalen late and hit a home run with Obi, a kid no one was on. The team clearly was better this year and a culture has been established. However I posted back in Sept, it’s very difficult to start the year with 9 guys. We missed on a few recruits and then get the Matos injury. As good as the Crutcher and Toppin recruits were, Cohill and Frankie fell short of expectations. But with all that we win 7 road games and competedin almost every game. The jury will be out on end of game execution and better defense but with better players and good depth we should maul the A10 next year. Really good players eliminate coaches mistakes.
Agree with your post. But the problem with some of the anti-AG types is that they’re not living in reality. You pretty much stated my theory-85% of being successful is recruiting and the other 15% is X and O’s. We have probably the strongest class coming in next year I can remember in my 43 years following the Flyers. This is how you build a program.
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  #91  
Old 03-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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The three coaches prior to AG were all using UD as a stepping stone and that was the model of choice by the ADs. What that means is that once they succeeded they were leaving. Hiring a new coach from outside in general means that you're likely changing how you play and you have to go out and get players that fit needs. While it did mean that there was a bit of instability, over that time frame UD has experienced quite a lot of success, especially contrasted against the worst 4 years in program history from 92-95. AG's hire, if it works, likely provides UD with the desired stability as I don't believe he'd walk away from the program. Remains to be seen if he can provide the top-end success that everybody craves. I like what I see in year 2.
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  #92  
Old 03-22-2019, 11:44 AM
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Let's throw this out there.

What IF JALEN got hurt between game 20 and 22 for year.
What would Grant and team done to adjust?
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  #93  
Old 03-22-2019, 11:46 AM
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Second on offense, I believe AG NEEDS to coach and strategize team and Jalen to do this:

1. 1st 5 minutes Mikesell gets 2 to 3 outside looks
2. Josh C same. Post passes 2 or 3 times in first 5 minutes during offensive sets

Getting these two going early was crucial to this teams offensive success.

It also didnt happen
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