MLK Day hoops.............

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Just so it is forgotten........
UD AD needs to think outside the box....
Plan a full day of honoring MLK in City of Dayton.....
Followed by 4-5 pm (or whenever TV wants it) game UD vs. UC, Gonzaga, XU, WSU (although I have come to the conclusion that both schools are stubborn and cannot come to an agreement on such a contract. WSU wake up, you need UD more!). Look what ESPN had on this afternoon, 2 NBA games and a HS game from Springfield, MASS.

Go Flyers!!

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[sheg]

You're right; it should be forgotten.

[Ready Action]

So sorry MLK Day is already taken 'round these parts. TV deal is in the works... Http://flyintothehoop.com

[DallasFlyer]

So the idea is to get teams from Dayton, Cincy and Spokane to honor a man (who is most closely associated with a civil rights movement which grew out of places like Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee) by playing an out of conference basketball game during the in-conference portion of the season?

[BRob2Perryman3]

When is Detwon Rogers playing?

[C-time]

Is Sammy Smith going to play too?

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Skeg - ever make a typo? Should read "isn't forgotten".
Dallas Flyer - I think MLK's message covered all 50 states and abroad.. fyi, home town of selected opponent is not important. Also many teams play OOC during conf play - check your local listings and you will see some great intersectional/national match ups in Jan and Feb.
BRob2Perryman 3 and C-time - It's smart a** comments like yours that have nothing to do with the thread topic that keeps me out of most discussions on UDPride.

[DallasFlyer]

I will agree with you that there could be more college hoops on this day. What you suggest each year won't work for many reasons however, chiefly timing (in-conference time). The connection isn't as strong as if Memphis or UAB were hosting games. It seems like they could very easily schedule an in-conference game and build in a nice tribute that ESPN would eat up.

[UD90]

Death
Taxes
Piqua Flyer '66 MLK/WSU post.

WSU is worse than the entire non conference schedule except SEMO.

[224]

Why does it have to be a non conference game?

I wouldn't be opposed to starting a tradition where (as an example) UD plays SLU every MLK day.

Or better yet, the A10 should be the conference to have 4-5 games on MLK day. Back to back on ESPNU or something starting at 11:00.

I guarantee you both UD and SBU ADs would rather have had tomorrow's game played today at 4 on ESPNU than on ASN tomorrow...a network no one seems to know how to find.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Skeg - ever make a typo? Should read "isn't forgotten". Dallas Flyer - I think MLK's message covered all 50 states and abroad.. fyi, home town of selected opponent is not important. Also many teams play OOC during conf play - check your local listings and you will see some great intersectional/national match ups in Jan and Feb. BRob2Perryman 3 and C-time - It's smart a** comments like yours that have nothing to do with the thread topic that keeps me out of most discussions on UDPride.

Sorry, i thought we were beating dead horses. I'm sure you can understand my confusion. As the WSU post comes like clockwork

[Gazoo]

Someone cue Statler and Waldorf

[The Price is Wright]

As I've found out before, no person is allowed to mention Wright State. If somebody does it again, I will email Chris to have them banned. I'm 33 and I simply cannot handle this.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by The Price is Wright As I've found out before, no person is allowed to mention Wright State. If somebody does it again, I will email Chris to have them banned. I'm 33 and I simply cannot handle this. Posted via Mobile Device

Nobody is saying these posts aren't allowed. The rest of us are just allowed to laugh and/or roll our eyes when they appear. Again. Every. Single. Year.

[The Price is Wright]

I was just joking. I got reported years ago because I posted a factual argument about the topic. Always think its hilarious how angry adult men get over this subject.
Posted via Mobile Device

[priceg75]

Guys, why are we getting so upset that he suggests that we play Wichita State on MLK Day? Sounds good to me! Although I'm not sure why Wichita State would be so stubborn about a contract.

[jack72]

I agree, a game with Wichita would be an exception to playing a non-conference game this late.

[ChrisSFlyer]

Originally Posted by UD90 WSU is worse than the entire non conference schedule except SEMO.

According to rpi forecast.com....Wright State is at 171 expected to finish at 172. Miami is at 215, expected to finish at 217. Projected win/loss records WSU 15-14, Miami 10-20.

Billy Donlon's record over 5 years: 84-66
John Cooper's record over 4 years: 84-122

WSU: 8-8 overall, 5-1 in second place in their conference and surging
Miami: 6-11 overall, 0-4 in the MAC and going nowhere fast

Which team's more deserving of a home and home at this point? Oh and please, please break out the argument how driving 1.5-2 hours to Oxford is worse then driving 15-20 minutes across town to see UD play.....

Oh, there's Furman sitting on our schdule with an RPI of 224. Yes, a buy game, but still worse than WSU....

Next time, bring facts before you throw shade on a decent program. Wright State's done nothing more than ask for a home and home, even we could offer a 2 for 1, and people here hate them more than Xavier. For what? Asking to play a game?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[NYCFLYER]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Just so it is forgotten........ UD AD needs to think outside the box.... Plan a full day of honoring MLK in City of Dayton..... Followed by 4-5 pm (or whenever TV wants it) game UD vs. UC, Gonzaga, XU, WSU (although I have come to the conclusion that both schools are stubborn and cannot come to an agreement on such a contract. WSU wake up, you need UD more!). Look what ESPN had on this afternoon, 2 NBA games and a HS game from Springfield, MASS. Go Flyers!!

I'm with ya PF66 but we are decidedly the minority. I wish someone could explain to me why it makes sense to play a home and home with Miami (RPI 231) and not WSU (RPI 155).

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD62]

There are three sure things in life, death, taxes, and a lets play WSU on MLK day thread

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer According to rpi forecast.com....Wright State is at 171 expected to finish at 172. Miami is at 215, expected to finish at 217. Projected win/loss records WSU 15-14, Miami 10-20. Billy Donlon's record over 5 years: 84-66 John Cooper's record over 4 years: 84-122 WSU: 8-8 overall, 5-1 in second place in their conference and surging Miami: 6-11 overall, 0-4 in the MAC and going nowhere fast Which team's more deserving of a home and home at this point? Oh and please, please break out the argument how driving 1.5-2 hours to Oxford is worse then driving 15-20 minutes across town to see UD play..... Oh, there's Furman sitting on our schdule with an RPI of 224. Yes, a buy game, but still worse than WSU.... Next time, bring facts before you throw shade on a decent program. Wright State's done nothing more than ask for a home and home, even we could offer a 2 for 1, and people here hate them more than Xavier. For what? Asking to play a game?

For the ten thousandth time: because we can stop playing Miami at any time (and have done so at times) and no one will bat an eye, but as soon as we stop playing Wright State then UD is "ducking the Gem City Jam". There's no sponsors, no fake hoopla, it's just a game. And then we stay focused on the real prizes (preseason tournaments + NCAA tournament) not the door prizes.

Besides, I don't think there's more than 5% of this board who would agree with the idea that playing Miami home / home is a good idea either. Drop Miami and never consider Wright State until they show a consistent pattern of being top 100.

[DallasFlyer]

224's suggestion of a full slate of A10 games on MLK Day is a good one.

But the bottom line is there's not really a good reason to schedule any games out of conference once A10 play starts, let alone an RPI killer.

I know others have suggested an Ohio invitational exempt tournament to begin the year with other teams from Ohio, and that would be cool.

But Dayton's doing a pretty good job of scheduling in recent years with just one real lapse in judgement (renewing the Miami series). And as the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

[xubrew]

I think playing a game like this every year actually makes a lot of sense, although I wouldn't want to do it over MLK Weekend, but rather in November/December.

It's kind of outside the box, but there is some logic to doing it. With how the RPI is weighted, road wins are worth more than double what home wins are worth. If there is any such thing as a "Road Buy Game (for lack of a better term), then going to a place like Wright State or NKU is definitely it. At home you have about a 99% chance of winning the game. On the road, you still probably have well over an 80% chance of winning the game, and you get more than double the credit for doing it. Not only that, but more than half the arena will be your own fans, and as part of the contract you could probably demand more tickets than any other road game you could schedule.

Now, if everyone in the conference played a game like that (Butler @ IUPUI, Creighton @ Omaha, Seton Hall @ Saint Peter's (or any number of NY/NJ based schools), etc), then at least eight of the teams would probably win those games. They're not that much harder to win, but you get more than double the credit for doing it. The risk/reward is well in your favor, and it would actually noticeably boost the conference's power rankings.

So, when thinking about it, I'd be all for Xavier alternating between NKU, Wright State, or Miami OH to where we're playing at least one of them on the road every year. It's one game where we can get more than double the credit for winning it, but it's still not a game that's that hard to win. And in the rare case that we would lose a game...then oh well. It would just be dismissed as being that team's Super Bowl and kind of fade into the background as the season went on. Xavier has lost at Miami before and the world didn't end. In fact the second year they made the Elite Eight they lost at Miami.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer Oh and please, please break out the argument how driving 1.5-2 hours to Oxford is worse then driving 15-20 minutes across town to see UD play.....

If it takes you 1.5-2 hrs from Dayton to Oxford, you need a new GPS.

[DallasFlyer]

XUBrew, you already have built-in RPI 150+ road games in the in-conference schedule. This year its DePaul and St. John's. In the A10, you've got Mason, Fordham, LaSalle (which Dayton painfully blew) and SLU in that range. Wouldn't Xavier be better served to add quality road games that give you an opportunity for a real resume builder? Unless I'm mistaken you don't get more credit for beating a bad team on the road out of conference vs. in-conference. Therefore, playing at Wright State, Miami or NKU is just an unnecessary risk, no matter what the odds are of Xavier winning that game.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer According to rpi forecast.com....Wright State is at 171 expected to finish at 172. Miami is at 215, expected to finish at 217. Projected win/loss records WSU 15-14, Miami 10-20. Billy Donlon's record over 5 years: 84-66 John Cooper's record over 4 years: 84-122 WSU: 8-8 overall, 5-1 in second place in their conference and surging Miami: 6-11 overall, 0-4 in the MAC and going nowhere fast Which team's more deserving of a home and home at this point? Oh and please, please break out the argument how driving 1.5-2 hours to Oxford is worse then driving 15-20 minutes across town to see UD play..... Oh, there's Furman sitting on our schdule with an RPI of 224. Yes, a buy game, but still worse than WSU.... Next time, bring facts before you throw shade on a decent program. Wright State's done nothing more than ask for a home and home, even we could offer a 2 for 1, and people here hate them more than Xavier. For what? Asking to play a game?

Chris, the Miami series was a terrible decision in my opinion. It was not worst than playing Wright State in my opinion. But substituting one terrible idea for another equally terrible idea is just a really terrible idea.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer XUBrew, you already have built-in RPI 150+ road games in the in-conference schedule. This year its DePaul and St. John's. In the A10, you've got Mason, Fordham, LaSalle (which Dayton painfully blew) and SLU in that range. Wouldn't Xavier be better served to add quality road games that give you an opportunity for a real resume builder? Unless I'm mistaken you don't get more credit for beating a bad team on the road out of conference vs. in-conference. Therefore, playing at Wright State, Miami or NKU is just an unnecessary risk, no matter what the odds are of Xavier winning that game.

Well, scheduling one OOC game like that would give you an additional one.

It was actually the A10 two years ago that kind of made me realize it. The A10 got six teams into the NCAAs, and would have likely gotten a seventh in had Richmond been healthy. The A10 averaged over four OOC road wins per team that year. That's remarkable. And, when you looked at a lot of the road games that teams won, they were all the kinds of games that you would expect them to win most of the time.

It just got me to thinking. If every team in the conference scheduled one game like that, which I can best describe as a reverse buy game, then it would raise the level of the conference.

When Xavier was blowing out Wright State at home this year, it was obvious that if the game were at Wright State, Xavier would have won it rather easily as well. And, they'd have at least half the crowd. And, they'd get more than double the credit for winning it. So, again, it made me think that playing at least one game like that a year makes more sense than not. The reward way outweighs the risk in that situation.

Virginia and Michigan State have both started to do this. I'm not in favor of playing five or six games like that, but I'd be all for playing one less buy game and doing it. If the OOC schedule is like a mixed salad, then it's definitely something that you want included with that salad.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[AC91]

I can't believe i'm jumping in on this, but i am. the way i see it is that I don't have an issue with Miami being scheduled because it is a long-time historical rivalry. so, even when we play them when they are not very good, like this year, i have an interest because of it. Not saying that is the only reason to play it, and i probably wouldn't lose sleep if we dropped it - and i wouldn't keep bringing it up if we stopped, but I think rivalries like that should be given some prioritized weighting when scheduling. This is the same as if we had an opportunity to schedule DePaul. they haven't been very good recently but at least there is solid history there. I understand some folks from Dayton might be interested in WSU, but I would care as much about trying to watch that on a computer screen as I would Wittenberg in the preseason. I just don't care about trying to manufacture a rivalry with a school like WSU in hopes that many people would care at some point in the future. And to think that it would be picked up nationally any time in the forseeable future seems to me a pipe dream. So, no offense to the folks who support it and keep floating the idea if it's that important to you, but just know that the arguments will likely contue from the other side because some of us just don't see it as a good scheduling move the way you do. that's all.

[Gazoo]

I would rather play a bottom-dwelling SEC, B10, B12, or ACC school. They're likely not much better than Wright State but it gets the guys used to thinking of the conferences we'll be seeing in March.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer Wright State's done nothing more than ask for a home and home, even we could offer a 2 for 1, and people here hate them more than Xavier. For what? Asking to play a game?

Billy Donlon: "Playing the University of Dayton would do absolutely nothing for the Wright State program."

[Beatty Town Coach]

All other above issues not withstanding, for or against said issues; UD is without question "ducking" the gem city jam. There is no way credible or logically to dispute that reality. Clearly UD is the one denying that game.

[Flyer 86]

I agree. Schedule St Joe's or SLU.

A10 should have a 3 or 4 game slate. (NO out of Conference)

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[flyerfanatic86]

I get what Brew is saying, but I'm still not convinced I'm buying what he's selling.

UD will only schedule x number of home and homes. Does it make sense for one of those to be a bad team with a high probability of victory, or does it make more sense to take a chance on the road against a good team with a lesser probability of victory?

If Dayton played in the ACC, I think they could take more chances in the out of conference scheduling because, as brew stated, a slip up would be ignored. But like others have said, if you slip up to a bad team out of conference and then lose at LaSalle, you're just adding question marks for the committee. You're also giving the committee ammo for discussing how you tried to avoid a tough schedule, depending on how the rest of it shakes out.

I could see the benefits for teams like Fordham, who are generally scheduling light to try and stack wins early and less interested in building an at large resume. If several teams from the conference can go out and take some winnable road scalps, it would benefit the conference as a whole. But I'm not convinced that this is the path UD should take to build an at large resume.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[ud2]

A 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 with WSU might be fair...Miami is a rivalry game, so they are treated differently.

Sorry, I couldn't resist posting in this thread. Lol.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 I get what Brew is saying, but I'm still not convinced I'm buying what he's selling. UD will only schedule x number of home and homes. Does it make sense for one of those to be a bad team with a high probability of victory, or does it make more sense to take a chance on the road against a good team with a lesser probability of victory? If Dayton played in the ACC, I think they could take more chances in the out of conference scheduling because, as brew stated, a slip up would be ignored. But like others have said, if you slip up to a bad team out of conference and then lose at LaSalle, you're just adding question marks for the committee. You're also giving the committee ammo for discussing how you tried to avoid a tough schedule, depending on how the rest of it shakes out. I could see the benefits for teams like Fordham, who are generally scheduling light to try and stack wins early and less interested in building an at large resume. If several teams from the conference can go out and take some winnable road scalps, it would benefit the conference as a whole. But I'm not convinced that this is the path UD should take to build an at large resume.

In order to get the full benefit of it, nearly every team in the conference would have to go along with it.

In looking at the A10,

VCU played American and Radford
Dayton played Miami OH.
Saint Joe's played a handful of buy games
GW played several

as did...virtually everyone.

If ALL of them played one of those buy games on the road, they'd win about eighty percent of them. It's possible they'd win all of them. If you add seven or eight road wins to the conference's total, it will inflate the numbers. Even if a team or two drops the game, the league as a whole is still better off, and the teams that drop the games now have a better chance of offsetting them.

Buy games typically do nothing for you. There is little risk, but even less reward. You hear the phrase "playing the numbers game." This is one way to do it. By winning road games that really aren't that difficult to win, you can inflate the league's numbers. The Atlantic Ten (probably without actually meaning to) did that two years ago.

Another thing about playing the local teams that are on a lower tier is that you can work it to where it's even more in your favor. NKU's and Wright State's areans seat around 9000, but they typically struggle to draw 5000. So, say that for the "road game" that you want 2500 tickets. It's still worth it for them to do it, and then you have the chance to sell 2500 tickets to your own fans for someone else's home game. half the crowd would consist of your fans.

I understand Dayton doesn't want to do it. I understand why. I just have a different way of looking at it. I think it would help us if Xavier could play one of the lower tier local teams on the road each year. If everyone in the conference did it, then it would help even more. We easily beat Wright State and NKU at home. We would have likely easily beaten them on the road as well, and gotten more than double the credit for doing it.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I would rather play a bottom-dwelling SEC, B10, B12, or ACC school. They're likely not much better than Wright State but it gets the guys used to thinking of the conferences we'll be seeing in March.

If the choice were between a bottom-dwelling power five school or Wright State / Miami, the bottom-dwelling power five school would be a better choice, but you could also schedule home and homes with smaller conference schools who are likely to win their conferences. Monmouth returns all their key guys next year (except maybe their coach). Go play them at their place next year. Now, they may suck in two years when they come to the arena, but oh well. I'd be fine with a home and home with Valpo. Murray State has fallen on tough times but that was a nice home/home when it was scheduled. There's a handful of AAC or MVC programs that Dayton could schedule. The point is there are plenty of options, and they are all better options than playing at Miami or Wright State.

[UDTradition]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 When is Detwon Rogers playing?

http://www.nnusports.com/news/2015/8...px?path=mbball

Northwest Nazarene...go figure...

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by 224 Or better yet, the A10 should be the conference to have 4-5 games on MLK day. Back to back on ESPNU or something starting at 11:00. .

I do like this idea to get some press for the conference.

Let all 14 teams play. Games at 10 AM, 12 Noon, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 PM.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Billy Donlon: "Playing the University of Dayton would do absolutely nothing for the Wright State program."

Politically, that is the only answer he can realistically give. I don't suspect his employer would be happy if he said Wright State pines to play Dayton....to the point of inferior complex. Instead worrying about how dominant you think UD is to every other school, how about competing better against xavier, beat Miami by more than two points, beat "low major" smalltime Chattanooga, and beat a sorry -arse last place smalltime lasalle, then and only then can keep talking that erroneous garbage about the UD program being dominant to any other program.. until then, you should all keep it between the A10 riverbanks, and stop acting like UD will be invited to the Big East Power conference any moment now. I love the Dayton Flyers, but wo, not even close.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach All other above issues not withstanding, for or against said issues; UD is without question "ducking" the gem city jam. There is no way credible or logically to dispute that reality. Clearly UD is the one denying that game.

We are also ducking Sinclair and about 30 other schools in Ohio. And by "ducking" I assume you mean "there is absolutely no reason to play them as a home and home when your goal is to build your tournament resume". So, yeah, we will continue to cower in fear from Wright State's "offer" for a home / home.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Politically, that is the only answer he can realistically give.

You cannot be serious. There are many things he could say without insulting UD.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Right, but it's not anything about how dominant Dayton is, or how bad WSU or Miami are. UNFORTUNATELY UDPRIDE BOARD IS FULL OF WHO ERRONEOUSLY PUSH THE NOTION THAT UD is so nationally dominant to the two old local rivals. So Gazoo, why doesn't UD simply schedule games at Kansas, Duke and Kentucky, if the whole thing is about building a national program? Simple honest reason is that's not the reason UD doesn't sche due WSU.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Right, but it's not anything about how dominant Dayton is, or how bad WSU or Miami are. UNFORTUNATELY UDPRIDE BOARD IS FULL OF WHO ERRONEOUSLY PUSH THE NOTION THAT UD is so nationally dominant to the two old local rivals. So Gazoo, why doesn't UD simply schedule games at Kansas, Duke and Kentucky, if the whole thing is about building a national program? Simple honest reason is that's not the reason UD doesn't sche due WSU.

Last time I checked, a few games in the early 90's does not make them old rivals.

[UD90]

Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer According to rpi forecast.com....Wright State is at 171 expected to finish at 172. Miami is at 215, expected to finish at 217. Projected win/loss records WSU 15-14, Miami 10-20. Billy Donlon's record over 5 years: 84-66 John Cooper's record over 4 years: 84-122 WSU: 8-8 overall, 5-1 in second place in their conference and surging Miami: 6-11 overall, 0-4 in the MAC and going nowhere fast Which team's more deserving of a home and home at this point? Oh and please, please break out the argument how driving 1.5-2 hours to Oxford is worse then driving 15-20 minutes across town to see UD play..... Oh, there's Furman sitting on our schdule with an RPI of 224. Yes, a buy game, but still worse than WSU.... Next time, bring facts before you throw shade on a decent program. Wright State's done nothing more than ask for a home and home, even we could offer a 2 for 1, and people here hate them more than Xavier. For what? Asking to play a game?

You're right I didn't research it. The other two teams on our schedule that I missed shouldn't be either. 171? Now that's pounding your chest.

Furman was a last minute schedule filler and Miami (well there is tradition with that team and some of the Alumni flipped when they were removed a few years ago). In the next two that series will be gone.

WSU still struggles to be slightly better than our worse buy game.

WSU vs. Sinclair at the Nut House on MLK day. It would be packed.

[ud2]

Chattanooga was a good loss, Miami is always a tough game, a lot of those MAC teams are tough opponents, and losses like LaSalle happen on occasion during league play, that is just how league play is, especially on the road.

We are off to a great start, I am happy, we are on the verge of going to 3 straight NCAA's. No season is ever smooth all the time.

Wright State just isn't consistently any good, plain and simple. They had a decent stretch there with Brownell several years ago, but in all the years they have been in d1, they just haven't been able to maintain a level of decent performance. You don't play a school like that home and home if you are trying to build a national program, it just doesn't make any sense.

I like the concept of having a hometown rival, but if you removed the name Wright State from the jersey, nobody would be clamoring to play them home and home due to the fact that they just aren't very good consistently.

As far as Duke, Kentucky, etc. go, you can't play all away non-con games at top notch programs like that because honestly, you are probably going to lose most of them. You shouldn't schedule schools like that IMO unless you think you can win. I don't see the point of scheduling what you think will be a likely loss.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Right, but it's not anything about how dominant Dayton is, or how bad WSU or Miami are. UNFORTUNATELY UDPRIDE BOARD IS FULL OF WHO ERRONEOUSLY PUSH THE NOTION THAT UD is so nationally dominant to the two old local rivals. So Gazoo, why doesn't UD simply schedule games at Kansas, Duke and Kentucky, if the whole thing is about building a national program? Simple honest reason is that's not the reason UD doesn't sche due WSU.

Kansas, Duke, and UK won't play us home / home (though Duke did as a buy game once). But, who will? Arkansas, Ole Miss, Vandy, and many others.

Would Sinclair offer a home / home? Of course, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. A fair deal is where both teams gets something they want.

Would WSU offer a home / home? Of course, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. UD gains a road game--which we can get elsewhere with no strings attached. When Arkansas drops to a 200-level RPI program we stop playing them. When Wright State drops to a 200-level RPI program we CANNOT stop playing them, because then we are "ducking" them.

WSU as a buy game, sure. WSU as an annual / you must schedule the game no matter what home / home in lieu of the opportunity to have an open date for a good rival. . . no. Makes zero sense.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Fyi
Those who suggest you can,t play OOC
after conf play starts - see Temple vs. LaSalle tonight.
I am anxious to read from fellow posters why above
game is ok - but just would not work for UD doing so on MLK Day.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Fyi Those who suggest you can,t play OOC after conf play starts - see Temple vs. LaSalle tonight. I am anxious to read from fellow posters why above game is ok - but just would not work for UD doing so on MLK Day.

Maybe everyone just forgot Temple is no longer in the A10? But yeah, not sure why they wouldn't schedule this for earlier in the season. Key differences I think is the Palestra would be considered a neutral site, and there's a lot of tradition involved between the Philly schools. So it is not really the same situation at all, but the timing is interesting.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Maybe everyone just forgot Temple is no longer in the A10? But yeah, not sure why they wouldn't schedule this for earlier in the season. Key differences I think is the Palestra would be considered a neutral site, and there's a lot of tradition involved between the Philly schools. So it is not really the same situation at all, but the timing is interesting.

It is a Big 5 game. Joes plays Penn tonight too.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by CE80 It is a Big 5 game. Joe's plays Penn tonight too.

It is definitely a Big Five game. For example, Villanova played LaSalle, Penn, and St Joe's in December, but they play Temple on 2-17. There is so much tradition involved with these games they play them whenever they can. I guess that answer's Piqua's question.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Fyi Those who suggest you can,t play OOC after conf play starts - see Temple vs. LaSalle tonight. I am anxious to read from fellow posters why above game is ok - but just would not work for UD doing so on MLK Day.

The Big 5, which is rooted deeply in historical rivalries, the depths of which can be attested to the fact it has survived all the turmoil in college basketball over the last 30 years, has been in existence for over 60 years. UD and WSU have played a handful of times over the last 30 years, to tepid enthusiasm. this comparison is ludicrous. The Big 5 comparison wouldbe appropririate to support renewing rivalries like Xavier, Notre Dame, Depaul and Marquette.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Did a little research
Couple schools similar to UD
non-Big 5, non football
Promoting their basketball team via OOC games
during conf schedule time AND games are
on natl TV. All I am trying to indicate is that it is
Incorrect to say UD cannot/should not play OOC
during conf schedule. As we go forward I'll point out other such OOC games
Marquette playing Stetson 2/27
Gonzaga (who we Long to be)
@ SMU 2/13
@ BUT 2/27
Once again I look forward to fellow posters
logic why it's ok for above mentioned games
but not for UD to playOOC in Jan/Feb.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Did a little research Couple schools similar to UD non-Big 5, non football Promoting their basketball team via OOC games during conf schedule time AND games are on natl TV. All I am trying to indicate is that it is Incorrect to say UD cannot/should not play OOC during conf schedule. As we go forward I'll point out other such OOC games Marquette playing Stetson 2/27 Gonzaga (who we Long to be) @ SMU 2/13 @ BUT 2/27 Once again I look forward to fellow posters logic why it's ok for above mentioned games but not for UD to playOOC in Jan/Feb.

I'd schedule SMU, Butler, Gonzaga or Marquette. If it really had to be in Jan/Feb, I'd think about it. But those schools are not like Wright State.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Did a little research Couple schools similar to UD non-Big 5, non football Promoting their basketball team via OOC games during conf schedule time AND games are on natl TV. All I am trying to indicate is that it is Incorrect to say UD cannot/should not play OOC during conf schedule. As we go forward I'll point out other such OOC games Marquette playing Stetson 2/27 Gonzaga (who we Long to be) @ SMU 2/13 @ BUT 2/27 Once again I look forward to fellow posters logic why it's ok for above mentioned games but not for UD to playOOC in Jan/Feb.

I am not objecting to playing an OOC game during the A10 schedule, I am objecting to giving WSU a home and home. If the shoe were on the other foot, then they would do the same thing that UD is doing.

The Bracket Buster games are OOC games played during the conference schedule.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Once again I look forward to fellow posters logic why it's ok for above mentioned games but not for UD to play OOC in Jan/Feb.

Maybe once the conference schedule starts Archie wants to concentrate only on the conference schedule. If they have a week off between conference games maybe he would rather rest than squeeze in a non-conference game. It's a long season. That makes perfect sense to me. I can't remember the last time UD had a non-conference game in the middle of the conference schedule. I guess you are saying that just because a few other teams do it UD should do it. They apparently don't want to. Is that ok with you?

[Beatty Town Coach]

Last time I checked, it was only a small number of Gem City Jam games, because, in fact UD spent the last twenty years "ducking" the game. No different than why there have only been about six games in the Ohio State/UD history...because OSU is ducking UD. The scheduling model excuse provided, might as well be re-worded to "we need our hateful Title IV monies. In other words, more resources to hate Kavs and Dyshawn?

I would much rather watch UD beat Wright State everyother year at home and every other year at the Nutt House, than warch another Southeast Missouri state game; or the mighty power house programs like William and Marry, etal. Watching UD lose to Chattanooga, was about as exciting and memorable as watching Flys procreate.

[Beatty Town Coach]

And that's for you little sissies that red pippin when you hate someone else's view...pathetically weak. Go ahead, tell yourselves Dayton will be invited to the Big East soon, all because UD was so savy as to not schedule Wright State. Amazing!!!

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach I would much rather watch UD beat Wright State everyother year at home and every other year at the Nutt House, than warch another Southeast Missouri state game; or the mighty power house programs like William and Marry, etal. Watching UD lose to Chattanooga, was about as exciting and memorable as watching Flys procreate.

William and Mary and SEMO are buy games, no return. Wright State won't agree to that. So they're ducking UD as much as UD is ducking Wright State. But there isn't any ill will. If Wright State can turn into an annual RPI top 100 team, I truly believe the series would be scheduled, just as I believe the Miami series would be renewed if they can turn into an annual top 100 RPI team.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Last time I checked, it was only a small number of Gem City Jam games, because, in fact UD spent the last twenty years "ducking" the game. No different than why there have only been about six games in the Ohio State/UD history...because OSU is ducking UD. The scheduling model excuse provided, might as well be re-worded to "we need our hateful Title IV monies. In other words, more resources to hate Kavs and Dyshawn? I would much rather watch UD beat Wright State everyother year at home and every other year at the Nutt House, than warch another Southeast Missouri state game; or the mighty power house programs like William and Marry, etal. Watching UD lose to Chattanooga, was about as exciting and memorable as watching Flys procreate.

You are twisting the argument, it is not about playing SEMO, Chattanooga, or W&M instead of WSU, it is about playing at Vandy or at Arkansas instead of playing at WSU. I think you just like to be provocative on here, or seems like you have sort of a hatred for UD, or just really high expectations, or all of the above.

[CE80]

I think someone should do a documentary on the whole UD/WSU no game. Maybe a 10 part Netflix exclusive.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Last time I checked, it was only a small number of Gem City Jam games, because, in fact UD spent the last twenty years "ducking" the game. No different than why there have only been about six games in the Ohio State/UD history...because OSU is ducking UD. The scheduling model excuse provided, might as well be re-worded to "we need our hateful Title IV monies. In other words, more resources to hate Kavs and Dyshawn? I would much rather watch UD beat Wright State everyother year at home and every other year at the Nutt House, than warch another Southeast Missouri state game; or the mighty power house programs like William and Marry, etal. Watching UD lose to Chattanooga, was about as exciting and memorable as watching Flys procreate.

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach And that's for you little sissies that red pippin when you hate someone else's view...pathetically weak. Go ahead, tell yourselves Dayton will be invited to the Big East soon, all because UD was so savy as to not schedule Wright State. Amazing!!!

You're either flat out dumb or attempting to generate fake controversy. Unfortunately your strategy (because I'm assuming you're not dumb) of bringing this up constantly has failed, all it's done is concretely solidify the arguments against playing Wright State. It's no longer an emotional issue to virtually everyone here because it's been driven into the ground; it's settled law.

You know very well that we would switch out WSU for Southwest Missouri State. We WILL NOT switch out WSU for a game like Vandy, because we value the limited amount of flexibility we have on the schedule to get home / home with major programs. I can't imagine how much AM would lose his mind when he finds out Vandy offered a home / home that we can't schedule because they need it to be the day of the Gem City Jam. Sorry Archie, we'll get 2 more SW Missouri State games instead, better win the A10.

tOSU, by contrast, IS ducking us because (to my knowledge) we are not requiring a home / home. Now is when your Southwest Missouri State comparison is appropriate. I totally understand them not wanting a home / home, they play a killer conference schedule and need to mix in national profile games with cupcakes. They can't afford to lose the cupcakes or . . . well then they'll be the 2015-2015 Buckeyes. If they're playing a home / home it's got to be national exposure because they might lose.

[UDDoug]

UD would play OSU one way or neutral with national TV. No TV home/home.

My understanding is WSU wants equal number of games at each place. Moreover they prefer permanency. A 10 or 12 year deal. Not something I care to see.

I have no desire to see or nor see games against WSU. If it could replace SEMO that would be ok. But frankly a game against WSU has as much interest to me as a game against eastern Kentucky or SEMO. I would rather see UD play Belmont.

Unless WSU is Wichita State just have no interest in it. And that's the problem. Other than pockets, there was no interest in the Miami Valley. When they played they did not sell out either place.
Posted via Mobile Device

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Did a little research Couple schools similar to UD non-Big 5, non football Promoting their basketball team via OOC games during conf schedule time AND games are on natl TV. All I am trying to indicate is that it is Incorrect to say UD cannot/should not play OOC during conf schedule. As we go forward I'll point out other such OOC games Marquette playing Stetson 2/27 Gonzaga (who we Long to be) @ SMU 2/13 @ BUT 2/27 Once again I look forward to fellow posters logic why it's ok for above mentioned games but not for UD to playOOC in Jan/Feb.

Most of the examples you're giving are either circumstantial, or scheduled with a specific purpose.

The Ivy League hasn't really begun conference play yet. They've played the first travel partner game, and that's it. That starts this week, so for Penn, who hosted the event, it really isn't a break in conference play. It's also an event that all four schools wanted at the Palestra, and wanted to play when all students were back on campus. Up until a few years ago it used to be a triple header with Drexel playing, but logistically it's hard to schedule when you want all those variables to come together.

Gonzaga is (normally) a top 25 caliber team who's conference provides them little (if any) showcase games against other NCAA Tournament caliber teams. They don't want to go ten weeks without a big test. So, they seek out those games. Gonzaga and Memphis used to play every February when Memphis was in CUSA. Memphis sought out those games as well.

The Bracket Buster was in late February as well, and it's a shame they don't do it anymore. The idea was actually great. Have an unscheduled game so the good teams could be paired up against one another, which would enable them to play a showcase game against quality competition that they otherwise would not have gotten to play. Monmouth is a good team. Valpo is a good team. Chattanooga is a good team (or was before their best player got hurt). The problem is that from January on, the only type of games they play are games where they are trying to avoid a conference loss to a bad team. Monmouth has no chance to build their resume. All they can hope to do is not wreck it. So, it made sense for those teams. It sucks that that event no longer exists. Evansville, Wichita State, Monmouth, Valpo, Chattanooga, UAB, Hawaii, UC Irvine, UALR and Texas Arlington are all teams that are having big years, but that also have virtually no chance at playing even NIT caliber teams the rest of the way. If they could all be paired up in at least one game against each other in February, it's a huge benefit. I wish they'd bring that back.

Of course other games are your showcase games that national television schedules.

So, there is no rule that says you can't do it. It's just that the teams who do it have a specific reason for doing it that's typically unique to them. If you want a game on MLK Day, then you need to present it in a way that benefits all parties. Saying that it works for other schools isn't really an argument because other schools do it for specific reasons that are unique to them and that have nothing to do with Wright State or UD. It is a unique idea. But, how does it benefit everyone involved??

[Buster Goode]

I don't know why we wouldn't want to play a November four-team tournament over 3 days comprised of local teams. Could play it in the crappy US Bank Arena in Cincinnati.

You could even bake in a cupcake first round game for the stronger schools like:

Xavier vs. NKU
Dayton vs. Miami/Wright State

Set up a neutral court game versus Xaiver....

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD62]

NBE will not play us unless it's an early tourney like this year, but a scheduled game isn't going to happen for now

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode I don't know why we wouldn't want to play a November four-team tournament over 3 days comprised of local teams. Could play it in the crappy US Bank Arena in Cincinnati. You could even bake in a cupcake first round game for the stronger schools like: Xavier vs. NKU Dayton vs. Miami/Wright State Set up a neutral court game versus Xaiver....

Have you seen NKU, Miami, and Wright States RPI's? No thanks.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD90]

I think our scheduling is just fine as it is. Don't change a thing.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by xubrew Most of the examples you're giving are either circumstantial, or scheduled with a specific purpose. The Ivy League hasn't really begun conference play yet. They've played the first travel partner game, and that's it. That starts this week, so for Penn, who hosted the event, it really isn't a break in conference play. It's also an event that all four schools wanted at the Palestra, and wanted to play when all students were back on campus. Up until a few years ago it used to be a triple header with Drexel playing, but logistically it's hard to schedule when you want all those variables to come together. Gonzaga is (normally) a top 25 caliber team who's conference provides them little (if any) showcase games against other NCAA Tournament caliber teams. They don't want to go ten weeks without a big test. So, they seek out those games. Gonzaga and Memphis used to play every February when Memphis was in CUSA. Memphis sought out those games as well. The Bracket Buster was in late February as well, and it's a shame they don't do it anymore. The idea was actually great. Have an unscheduled game so the good teams could be paired up against one another, which would enable them to play a showcase game against quality competition that they otherwise would not have gotten to play. Monmouth is a good team. Valpo is a good team. Chattanooga is a good team (or was before their best player got hurt). The problem is that from January on, the only type of games they play are games where they are trying to avoid a conference loss to a bad team. Monmouth has no chance to build their resume. All they can hope to do is not wreck it. So, it made sense for those teams. It sucks that that event no longer exists. Evansville, Wichita State, Monmouth, Valpo, Chattanooga, UAB, Hawaii, UC Irvine, UALR and Texas Arlington are all teams that are having big years, but that also have virtually no chance at playing even NIT caliber teams the rest of the way. If they could all be paired up in at least one game against each other in February, it's a huge benefit. I wish they'd bring that back. Of course other games are your showcase games that national television schedules. So, there is no rule that says you can't do it. It's just that the teams who do it have a specific reason for doing it that's typically unique to them. If you want a game on MLK Day, then you need to present it in a way that benefits all parties. Saying that it works for other schools isn't really an argument because other schools do it for specific reasons that are unique to them and that have nothing to do with Wright State or UAB. It is a unique idea. But, how does it benefit everyone involved??

That's a great post. I agree that it would be pretty cool to bring back the bracket buster tournament, and it actually would be kind of fun to do it on MLK Day for TV purposes. As you point out however, that would be something for the best of the best in what are typically one-bid conferences to participate in. So that disqualifies A10 programs, because the A10 is a multi-bid conference. There's enough opportunity to get quality wins in this conference.

So my question is why did the bracket buster go away? It seems like there would be some difficulty projecting at the time schedules are compiled who would actually be deserving of participation in the bracket buster. Seems like that selection process might be pretty controversial. So maybe that contributed to why it went away?

Thanks again for the insight, XU. I know this topic annoys many of us, and I wouldn't bring it up myself, but I actually do think it generally leads to some interesting information and ideas. So I don't mind it too much.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode I don't know why we wouldn't want to play a November four-team tournament over 3 days comprised of local teams. Could play it in the crappy US Bank Arena in Cincinnati. You could even bake in a cupcake first round game for the stronger schools like: Xavier vs. NKU Dayton vs. Miami/Wright State

So the idea of a cupcake bake off between Dayton, Xavier, NKU, Miami and Wright State seems way off topic, but it's far from the worst idea I've seen here. So I'll support it as long as we can keep the Blue Blob away. Much like his intellectually superior cousin Cookie Monster, he cannot be trusted around sweets! Probably a pervert and registered sex offender too.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer That's a great post. I agree that it would be pretty cool to bring back the bracket buster tournament, and it actually would be kind of fun to do it on MLK Day for TV purposes. As you point out however, that would be something for the best of the best in what are typically one-bid conferences to participate in. So that disqualifies A10 programs, because the A10 is a multi-bid conference. There's enough opportunity to get quality wins in this conference. So my question is why did the bracket buster go away? It seems like there would be some difficulty projecting at the time schedules are compiled who would actually be deserving of participation in the bracket buster. Seems like that selection process might be pretty controversial. So maybe that contributed to why it went away? Thanks again for the insight, XU. I know this topic annoys many of us, and I wouldn't bring it up myself, but I actually do think it generally leads to some interesting information and ideas. So I don't mind it too much.

The short answer as to why the Bracket Buster went away is because ESPN organized the event, and after the 13-14 season simply decided they didn't want to do it anymore.

The Bracket Buster started before ESPN 3, ESPN U, NBC Sports, CBS Sports, and before basically every conference had its own live internet stream. At the time, it was a big deal to be in it not just because you got to play a quality opponent, but because if you were one of the fourteen games that was picked you'd get to play on ESPN.

Now, as I understand it, a lot of conferences who sold the conference tournament/championship game rights to ESPN started including with the deal that they had to show at least one or two regular season games. So, another motivation for ESPN to create this was so they could get good games that were actually interesting and market it as some sort of "Bracket Buster."

Once there were 100 sports channels and virtually every game was available online, the need for exposure kind of went away. Some of the leagues like the Colonial ended up backing out because they had TV deals with other networks and just felt they didn't need it any more. Eventually, the pool of teams to choose from became diluted, and ESPN just didn't see the point. So, they quit.

The one benefit that still existed was that it enabled teams to play a quality opponent late in the year. To me, that is reason enough to keep it going, even if ESPN isn't setting it up. Even if a group of conferences just agreed to have an open date in late February, and a committee made up of individuals from each conference could match the teams up, I think that'd be good for everyone involved.