The LaSalle loss is all on Archie

kiefaber455 · #1 01-09-2016, 04:19 PM

He did not have this team prepared and had a lousy game plan and couldn't or wouldn't make the necessary adjustments.

If they play this way against GW and Davidson, they will lose and everyone will be back to talking about them being on the bubble.

Have to think that this loss is worse than GW's loss at SLU

Darryl Davis needs to find a seat next to the walk-ons. Can't think that Mikesell can play any worse.

lhsgolf19 · #2 01-09-2016, 04:23 PM

Good god man, I bet you were lathering this post up lol

pmcmullen · #3 01-09-2016, 04:26 PM

Dear Top 25,

Sorry we had to break up. It isn't you, it's me.

Sincerely,
Dayton Flyers

UDTradition · #4 01-09-2016, 04:35 PM

Mr. Ihsgolf19...do you think that Archie prepared and coached well?

I'm not LOL right this second.

I just came to the realization that I waste too much time on this stuff...

It's not you it's me. Remember...bipolar is a disease.

lhsgolf19 · #5 01-09-2016, 04:40 PM

I'm just saying it happens, yes Archie was outcoached... But the sky is not falling

Still 15 Games left, People thought the season was over after we lost at Duquesne last year

Sure I'm upset... Just chill and we will be fine

UDTradition · #6 01-09-2016, 04:45 PM

We all need to vent................

AustinFlyer · #7 01-09-2016, 04:45 PM

I had a conflict and was only able to watch the first part of the game. Since LaSalle was short handed and obviously trying to slow the game down, I was surprised we didn't press and wear them out. Did we try that in the second half?

ClaytonFlyerFan · #8 01-09-2016, 04:46 PM

I am so excited. Archie lost the game for us today.

This means Wisconsin, Illinios, NC State, Indiana, and whoever else that has lost in the last week will not be hiring Archie at the end of this year.

We are stuck with him for awhile

longtimefan67 · #9 01-09-2016, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by AustinFlyer

I had a conflict and was only able to watch the first part of the game. Since LaSalle was short handed and obviously trying to slow the game down, I was surprised we didn't press and wear them out. Did we try that in the second half?

Not until the very end of the game, behind by 5 with 90 seconds left to play...yeah

Sea Bass · #10 01-09-2016, 05:06 PM

What's up with Scooch. Flyers had a bunch of phantom fouls called, not an excuse just a fact.

San Diego Flyer · #11 01-09-2016, 05:06 PM

When we shoot 31%/ 28% ANY strategy is going to look like crap. Against UMass we shoot 57/44 and everything was wonderful.

So Steve is shooting 60% from the field and he gets 3 shots, while Crosby is shooting 34% from the field and he chucks up 10 shots.

Take away Cooke's 3pt shooting and we collectively shot 26% from the field.

Strategy aside, it's all about putting it in the jar. That was some kind of road kill shooting

Smitty10 · #12 01-09-2016, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

When we shoot 31%/ 28% ANY strategy is going to look like crap. Against UMass we shoot 57/44 and everything was wonderful.

So Steve is shooting 60% from the field and he gets 3 shots, while Crosby is shooting 34% from the field and he chucks up 10 shots.

Take away Cooke's 3pt shooting and we collectively shot 26% from the field.

Strategy aside, it's all about putting it in the jar. That was some kind of road kill shooting

Obviously the problem was "So Steve is shooting 60% from the field and he gets 3 shots". Ridiculous is all I can say.

Ivan · #13 01-09-2016, 05:15 PM

What happened to moving without the ball and cutting through the lane? Way too much perimeter passing with an entry pass once in a while. On defense, how many slip screen lay-ups did we allow? We could sure use that in our offensive scheme.

Piqua Flyer '66 · #14 01-09-2016, 05:18 PM

Schoochie is either tired, sick (mono?) or ****ed at reduced playing time.....which might be due to first two items listed.

Rick Scaia · #15 01-09-2016, 05:18 PM

Concur with SDF. Today's result was unacceptable, but I have a hard time getting too worked up over the process behind the outcome.

Something like two-thirds of LaSalle's points came after they ran the shot clock down under 10, and of those, half those points came after objectively bad and well-defended shots. That's, like, 20 points of dubious origin. If there were a way to replay this game (poor shooting by the Flyers and all, with no real change in our defensive effort/strategy) with LaSalle's guys forced to take the exact same shots, I suspect they'd score 41 more often then they score 61.

Slap a press on, and maybe you tire them out, but you also open yourself up to giving up easy baskets (something that did not happen when we laid back and D'ed them up for 10 seconds at the end of every shot clock). In retrospect, it looks like a move we should have made, because the percentage play didn't work out. But honestly, today was like a heads-up poker game between a pro and some home game hobbyist, and the hobbyist knew they were overmatched if they played the game straight. So they didn't, they limped in on every pot, and they sucked out on the river about two-thirds of the time... to mix metaphors, LaSalle didn't do much to show me they were better at basketball than us today, but that didn't stop them from walking away with all our money.

It happens. And today, it happened on the same day that our guys just went back to stinking up the joint on the offensive end. As much as we need Pollard back, it'd be a lot more helpful if Scoochie decided to return to form sooner than later....

Rick

Piqua Flyer '66 · #16 01-09-2016, 05:19 PM

Obvious today that UD/AM does not have a 1-3-1 trap zone in his play book.
AM let LaSalle dictate the pace of ENTIRE game
to shorten it......and then they won the "2:00" short game at the end.

Ready Action · #17 01-09-2016, 05:34 PM

Team does not have the make up to press and/or trap. As I said in other threads this is going to be a difficult conference season as these coaches know Archie's scheme and his personnel. It's okay in the non-conf to skate by, but in conf you're not gonna be able to skate by with that luck factor. Perhaps as usual the coaching and players will progress as the season moves forward, but who knows.

TrueTeam · #18 01-09-2016, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66

Obvious today that UD/AM does not have a 1-3-1 trap zone in his play book.
AM let LaSalle dictate the pace of ENTIRE game
to shorten it......and then they won the "2:00" short game at the end.

This so much! They only played like 6 guys, knew they worse, and wanted to play slow. We let them do it. Again! So infuriating.

oldfan · #19 01-10-2016, 12:48 AM

I do not think you can blame Arch because the team can not score open baskets. My one difference of opinion would be is that when LaSalle went completely small, rather than have Scoochie in with Crosby and going totally small or going with Steve as the alternative tall team. I would have used Mikesell. Ideally he would have brought some size and more rebounding without a large diminution in court intelligence.

maddog07 · #20 01-10-2016, 02:13 AM

Archie let them take almost half of the shots from 3. Too many and not always from the right people. that's what cost us the game, our ranking and perhaps a lot more. We need a more cohesive offense with emphasis on getting the ball inside, or getting fouled. we are not now or going to be become a great shooting team this year. I think we lose at least 5 more in conference and 22-8 is right on the bubble - looking at best case a 10 seed.

shocka43 · #21 01-10-2016, 07:04 AM

The 1-4 low killed UD. It goes back to not being able to guard penetration or a ball screen. UD got toasted in the 1 on 1 game.

Would pressing have worked? Would it have taken Lasalle out of their flow and speed them up? Something had to change defensively...Lasalle controlled the flow/pace of the entire game. That needed to change. People are right...UD can't press the entire game...but a few wrinkles here and there would have changed the flow of the game.

NJFlyr71 · #22 01-10-2016, 07:21 AM

Archie has brought a lot of desirable characteristics to this program that is very good to have in a D1 BB program. I shall not list here but you can probably recite the list yourself.

However, one characteristic that I find most frustrating and downright distasteful is the situation we face right now. We play good enough to get some national ranking and then immediately go and lay an egg, look terrible doing so against a team that no one had been paying attention to (in the national discussion) and fall back out of said ranking .... I think this is either the 3rd or 4th occasion since his arrival.

So maybe we are at best a top 30-40 program but not much higher than that and not much lower than that.

I don't normally call out specific players, but what the heck is wrong with Smith? This latest game hasn't been his only problem.

PS Give a lot of credit to the LaSalle players/team

NJFlyr71 · #23 01-10-2016, 07:26 AM

Oh Well. Just think how the Bengals feel this morning!

Enuff said there!

San Diego Flyer · #24 01-10-2016, 10:25 AM

Here are the shooting totals for our two true road A10 games to date, Duquesne and Lasalle:

Two in a row is a TREND folks.

Combined shooting for Duq and LaS is 40/118 = 34%

Combined 3pt shooting for those two games is 10/50 = 20%

Is it a coincidence that we can't shoot on the road? One common denominator is both A10 road games were played in the mid-afternoon against lame opponents in dismal gyms. Maybe Coach doesn't have us in the right mind orbit. And of course all the little things that have been mentioned that we didn't execute properly do count for something. But if we shoot any decent % yesterday we win (like 33/33). And if we shoot any % within shouting distance of our seasonal average, we easily beat the 10 point spread.

Arch can work on all the vast knowledge and strategies that this all-knowing board has offered up (legitimate points), but if we can't relax and get focused with our shooting, feel free to take the point spread because we are going to lose to St Bon and Fordham this very same way we shot ourselves in the foot with poor shooting against Duq and LaS.

We should win every road game where we limit the home opponent to 61 points. But as I look down our remaining road schedule, we won't win ONE shooting like the logged numbers above.

maddog07 · #25 01-10-2016, 10:41 AM

Need to consider something else on D when Steve is sitting. Sam- the Matador _ Miller can't police the middle at all and is always out of position for rebounds. We get schooled on easy baskets right down the middle. DP needs to move inside where his bulk and strength help. Sam, if playing at all has to be on the wing.

Sea Bass · #26 01-10-2016, 12:50 PM

worst +/- for the game was KD at -9 and SS at -8.

CJ43 · #27 01-10-2016, 01:44 PM

Thought we should have put a press on to speed up the game. If not a full press just put a full court man-to-man pressure on their PG to make them work a little bit instead of watching them dribble the ball for 10 seconds at half court. Just got to make them work a little bit and hopefully speed up the game a little bit.

Also did not like Crosby being in at the end of the game. I understand he was having a good game but I don't think his 3 point shooting was the answer for that zone at the end of the game.

At the end of the day they got lucky and hit a bunch of shots with the clock winding down but we still should have won this game.

SeasonTicketFan · #28 01-10-2016, 02:25 PM

I am not sure about what could have been done to speed up LaSalle. Archie has never played "Havoc".

What is troubling is the guard inability to slow down dribble penetration, and the rest of the players who did a poor job on the pick and roll. The pick and roll defense by Steve and Sam has been weak all year. However, I am dismayed how easily opponents guards have been able to work over our guards. Miami did the exact same thing, except they did not run the clock down the same way. The ran the clock down to make it look like they were trying to attack.

The team has some weaknesses and like every year , shrewd A10 coaches are studying them.

UD still has a good shot to win the A10 regular season. The clean up of issues has to be faster and not taken on the road any more.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #29 01-10-2016, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

I am not sure about what could have been done to speed up LaSalle. .

As I said in the game thread, the NCAA needs to bring back the 5 second count ASAP. They shortened the shot clock to increase scoring and make games more exciting. Seems as though LaSalle found a loophole to ruin those plans. Watching someone dribble for 20 seconds non stop bored me to sleep, as it did the Flyers. Great game plan by LaSalle though.

SeasonTicketFan · #30 01-10-2016, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

As I said in the game thread, the NCAA needs to bring back the 5 second count ASAP. They shortened the shot clock to increase scoring and make games more exciting. Seems as though LaSalle found a loophole to ruin those plans. Watching someone dribble for 20 seconds non stop bored me to sleep, as it did the Flyers. Great game plan by LaSalle though.

That is a good thought, but the NCAA won't change that rule till next season at The earliest

ClaytonFlyerFan · #31 01-10-2016, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

That is a good thought, but the NCAA won't change that rule till next season at The earliest

I realize it will not happen mid season. I can just see other teams using this blueprint going forward in similar situations. Shortens the game by limiting total possessions. Yes, I realize teams can still run the clock down on each possession the old fashioned way, but at least make the guys on the floor work for it a bit if the defense decides to extend and guard you.

runnerup · #32 01-10-2016, 04:29 PM

If we just make a FEW shots their ball stall means nothing. Our defense was good enough to win.

UDDoug · #33 01-10-2016, 04:48 PM

While I would question the coaching decision to not play zone or to do nothing to speed up the tempo, gonna still put the blame on players that can't make shots and turn it over 14 times in a low possession game.

CE80 · #34 01-10-2016, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by UDDoug

While I would question the coaching decision to not play zone or to do nothing to speed up the tempo, gonna still put the blame on players that can't make shots and turn it over 14 times in a low possession game.

In a low possession game, turnovers count double.

Flyer 86 · #35 01-10-2016, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by maddog07

Need to consider something else on D when Steve is sitting. Sam- the Matador _ Miller can't police the middle at all and is always out of position for rebounds. We get schooled on easy baskets right down the middle. DP needs to move inside where his bulk and strength help. Sam, if playing at all has to be on the wing.

When others got beat on drives toward the basket or lane, Sam was useless on help D. In fact, think he pretty much backed away.

Where is a Kurt H or Charles Little or Nate Green when you need them?

Agreed, that DP ( and think he has NO problem ) offering to clog the middle or help body people on D is important when steve or Pollard aren't in. Otherwise we have NO weight and presence in the middle.

Smitty10 · #36 01-10-2016, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

As I said in the game thread, the NCAA needs to bring back the 5 second count ASAP. They shortened the shot clock to increase scoring and make games more exciting. Seems as though LaSalle found a loophole to ruin those plans. Watching someone dribble for 20 seconds non stop bored me to sleep, as it did the Flyers. Great game plan by LaSalle though.

BS. There's 30 seconds for an offensive team to spend anyway they want(except for the 10 seconds to get the ball across court), if they want to start running their offense with 12 seconds to find a shot, that should be an advantage to the defense. If the D doesn't take advantage of it, don't blame the rule, blame the defense. If their was only a 15 seconds shot clock and they did t he same thing, I'm sure you'd blame the rule and not UD's defense right? Strategy keeps the game interesting. Dayton should've won this game one way or the other, the problem lies with the Flyers, not the rules.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #37 01-10-2016, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

BS. There's 30 seconds for an offensive team to spend anyway they want(except for the 10 seconds to get the ball across court), if they want to start running their offense with 12 seconds to find a shot, that should be an advantage to the defense. If the D doesn't take advantage of it, don't blame the rule, blame the defense. If their was only a 15 seconds shot clock and they did t he same thing, I'm sure you'd blame the rule and not UD's defense right? Strategy keeps the game interesting. Dayton should've won this game one way or the other, the problem lies with the Flyers, not the rules.

At no point am I blaming the rules for the Flyers loss. Never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. The Flyers lost, plain and simple. Yes, strategy keeps the game interesting as you say, and I applaud LaSalle for this strategy within the current rules. I am just saying the current rule SUCKS, and goes against the goal the NCAA had when changing the rules prior to this season. My hunch is we will see this same strategy used by other teams this season.

The question was asked, "how do you speed up Lasalle?" Obvious answer is press, trap, etc. But letting one guy stand at half court and dribble from the 25 second mark to the 10 second mark on the shot clock is boring as heck. I am quite confidant that when the NCAA decided to shorten the time on the shot clock and at the same time do away with the 5 second count, they did not anticipate watching someone hold the ball or stand in one spot dribbling for 15 seconds. Fewer possessions, slower paced game, BORING to watch.

Straight from this NCAA site-
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-...r-changes-game

The very first line under pace of play is this-
"With an eye on reducing inaction, the panel approved several proposals to improve the pace of play. The most significant is reducing the shot clock to 30 seconds"

And straight from Google, the definition of the word "inaction" that the NCAA used above- "lack of action where some is expected or appropriate".

I expect to see action, and it is appropriate in order for the NCAA to raise scoring higher than the 67.6 points per game that neared historic lows last season (also from above NCAA link)

Flyers lost 57-61, so I think both teams were below last seasons NCAA averages.

Smitty10 · #38 01-10-2016, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

At no point am I blaming the rules for the Flyers loss. Never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. The Flyers lost, plain and simple. Yes, strategy keeps the game interesting as you say, and I applaud LaSalle for this strategy within the current rules. I am just saying the current rule SUCKS, and goes against the goal the NCAA had when changing the rules prior to this season. My hunch is we will see this same strategy used by other teams this season.

The question was asked, "how do you speed up Lasalle?" Obvious answer is press, trap, etc. But letting one guy stand at half court and dribble from the 25 second mark to the 10 second mark on the shot clock is boring as heck. I am quite confidant that when the NCAA decided to shorten the time on the shot clock and at the same time do away with the 5 second count, they did not anticipate watching someone hold the ball or stand in one spot dribbling for 15 seconds. Fewer possessions, slower paced game, BORING to watch.

Straight from this NCAA site-
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-...r-changes-game

The very first line under pace of play is this-
"With an eye on reducing inaction, the panel approved several proposals to improve the pace of play. The most significant is reducing the shot clock to 30 seconds"

And straight from Google, the definition of the word "inaction" that the NCAA used above- "lack of action where some is expected or appropriate".

I expect to see action, and it is appropriate in order for the NCAA to raise scoring higher than the 67.6 points per game that neared historic lows last season (also from above NCAA link)

Flyers lost 57-61, so I think both teams were below last seasons NCAA averages.

Personally I don't care if the NCAA let's them dribble for 20 minutes. Any team worth a crap would make a team that's so weak they have to try that strategy pay dearly. A 30 second clock is all that's needed. If a team finds it to their advantage to dribble for 15 seconds of it, then that's on the defense if they are successful. I like the college game, I hate the NBA game. Quit trying to force the action, college basketball has survived a long time and has always been better than the NBA.

They have the rule right because what LaSalle did yesterday was only effective because the Flyers didn't do. That's make them pay. A team giving themselves only 12 seconds to find a shot is a disadvantage and the Flyers didn't take advantage of that disadvantage. Most teams will and you won't see it often.

It would be similar to a football team that turns the ball over alot kneeling down on 1st and 2nd down and then going for the 1st down on 3rd down all the time. They will probably have less tuurnovers but the team that doesn't take advantage of it looks like morons(your Flyers yesterday ladies and gentlemen)

Or a baseball player purposely striking out to avoid double plays.

It shouldn't work so it shouldn't happen. The flyers let it work and therefore let it happen. Don't worry, you won't see much of it again as most teams would make a weak team like Lasalle pay for it.

Smitty10 · #39 01-10-2016, 09:32 PM

Oh, and as for the question as to "how do you speed up LaSalle?". That's very simple. You take your advantage(20 seconds or so to find a good shot) vs their disadvantage(10 seconds to find a shot) and you build a lead. Pretty simple huh?

jack72 · #40 01-10-2016, 09:49 PM

Really, if a team wants to let us only play defense for 10-12 seconds we should welcome it. How can you play defense for 30 seconds and not do it for 10. How were there not multiple time clock violations? Because our guys lacked effort and focus.

TerryK_67 · #41 01-11-2016, 10:43 AM

IMHO, LaSalle won that game with defense… pure and simple. We had zero ability to do anything inside the arc. They doubled the ball handlers, drivers, and took away any dishes… just clogged everything up. The Flyers had no answer … besides hitting the conceded open outside shots. IIRC, we did that for the early part of the 1st half, but G knows us well enough to realize that we will not keep that up. Expect the same from Martelli, Money, Lonergan, and other coaches that have played us a lot over the years. We just have to get to the point where we hit those open shots that they give us consistently. If we don’t, we will see many more games like LaSalle.
Not blaming the L on the refs, but I thought there was a pretty big disparity of how the game was called on one end of the court verses the other. I guess you kinda expect that on the road. LaSalle did just about anything they wanted on defense with no whistles; while the Flyers got to the point where they were backing away from offensive players and the whistles still blew – big Steve’s third being the best example. Seemed like the Miami game was the same way. Hard to win when the refs don’t allow you to play defense.
The slow down should have hurt them, not helped them.
Tuesday evening ought to be interesting. Davidson is not a good defensive team, nor is their coach well experienced against us, but he is a GREAT X and O guy.. I expect a big rebound…. But GW and Lonergan scare me big time!
GO FLYERS

TommyGola · #42 01-11-2016, 11:07 AM

If these A-10 teams observed anything at all, they will see that we are inept at stopping dribble penetration. I look for every team to penetrate into the lane and either drop the ball off to an ensuing front-liner for an easy bucket or they get touch-fouled and go to the line. If the Flyers can't stop this, then every game becomes a LaSalle/Miami/W&M game. You win half and lose half of those types of games.

priceg75 · #43 01-11-2016, 11:51 AM

What's frustrating is I thought our defense was built to stop penetration. But it hasn't seemed to work all year.

rollo · #44 01-11-2016, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by priceg75

What's frustrating is I thought our defense was built to stop penetration. But it hasn't seemed to work all year.

So is the Queen's

but if you work hard

and long

enough, it's only a matter of time before you find an opening.

Sea Bass · #45 01-11-2016, 12:01 PM

too much shooting from the wrong guys and too many dumb TOs. Late in the game both Crosby and K Davis bricked wide open threes. They have too pass up those shots for something better.

Buster Goode · #46 01-11-2016, 12:11 PM

We need Pollard back! We've had a full squad for a total of two games all year.
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Buckleyma · #47 01-11-2016, 02:11 PM

Folks, there was a key play that noone seems to be talking about. At a key point, Kyle Davis was caught holding his man. That was the absolute worst scenario on that play. It bailed out Lasalle. Now, i am a big fan of Kyle Davis, but that was awful and unneeded. Kyle is quick enough not to need to hold. Shortly after that Kyle tried to make up for the mistake by over-hustling on a ball. But, the damage was done.
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CE80 · #48 01-11-2016, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Buckleyma

Folks, there was a key play that noone seems to be talking about. At a key point, Kyle Davis was caught holding his man. That was the absolute worst scenario on that play. It bailed out Lasalle. Now, i am a big fan of Kyle Davis, but that was awful and unneeded. Kyle is quick enough not to need to hold. Shortly after that Kyle tried to make up for the mistake by over-hustling on a ball. But, the damage was done.
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They all made some real dumb plays. One of my fears after the UMass games was the Crosby was going to look at what he did while playing within himself and say, wow, what if I pushed it a bit. Charles tried to force thing a couple of times. How about when Steve got beat bad toward the end of the game and then magnified it with an and one. As a team they did not shoot well but there will be those days. Just don't commit stupid fouls and turn the ball over. I am sure when they were up 7 they said, if we push it we can bury them. Instead, we take a couple of bad shots, turn the ball over and give up an open 3 to Price. In that kind of low possession game, they should have been more deliberate with the 7 point lead and that would have caused LaSalle to have to speed things up.

For all the talk about the high IQ of these guys, they did not show it on Saturday.

Smitty10 · #49 01-11-2016, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

They all made some real dumb plays. One of my fears after the UMass games was the Crosby was going to look at what he did while playing within himself and say, wow, what if I pushed it a bit. Charles tried to force thing a couple of times. How about when Steve got beat bad toward the end of the game and then magnified it with an and one. As a team they did not shoot well but there will be those days. Just don't commit stupid fouls and turn the ball over. I am sure when they were up 7 they said, if we push it we can bury them. Instead, we take a couple of bad shots, turn the ball over and give up an open 3 to Price. In that kind of low possession game, they should have been more deliberate with the 7 point lead and that would have caused LaSalle to have to speed things up.

For all the talk about the high IQ of these guys, they did not show it on Saturday.

Loved the article by Archdeacon on Crosby. However, the way he tries to manufacture himself into great plays or 3 pointers has me very concerned. I can certainly relate to young egos trying to steal the show every now and then but the first thing he should be doing is emulating the unselfishness of Scoochie and he's not doing that. Never should he be taking a 3 early in the shot clock. PG's need to make other players look great, not themselves. That will take care of itself with the A/TO ratio.

Flyer 86 · #50 01-11-2016, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by priceg75

What's frustrating is I thought our defense was built to stop penetration. But it hasn't seemed to work all year.

that!

i think Scooch or Dd or someone is letting too many guys slip by,not really sure what it is.

Buckleyma · #51 01-11-2016, 05:25 PM

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La Salle fan · #52 01-11-2016, 05:45 PM

I am a La Salle fan who comes in peace. My take on several posts on the game.

In my opinion La Salle won the game by dictating the tempo and playing great defense. You can only milk the shot clock if you have the lead. Dayton at one time had a 9 point lead in the first half which should stop La Salle game plan but didn't. No one to blame except themselves.

Dayton for the season has a shot line of 26-56/6.8-19/16.5-25. Against La Salle, their line was 17-55/7-25/16-24. So in reality, La Salle's strategy didn't deny Dayton many opportunities. According to kenpom, Dayton normally plays to 71 possessions per game and they had 68 against La Salle. So the pace wasn't all that slow.

La Salle's defense allowed 9 less FG's and made Dayton attempt 6 more 3's. That's the story of the game. Shooting 31% doesn't win many games. In fact if you take Cooke out of the equation, it is worse. The rest of the team shot 10-39 .256 and 3-19 .157 from 3.

La Salle got the best game of the year from Stukes( his main strength is getting into the lane) and Shuler together. Normally Price is the one in the 1-4 (which G has used a lot but the 7 game losing streak didn't allow lately). If Archie had looked at the film of the first four games, he would see this used a fair amount mostly to get into the bonus or protect the lead. The two SO guards needed to execute and they did.

As for the refs, please be my guest and take Tim Kelly. We have seen him 4-5 times this year including our scrimmages. We have had enough of him. His travel call on Shuler who was fouled was atrocious. He has made his fair share of bad calls against us including Saturday. He was the Golf Coach a few years ago at La Salle and is a St. Joseph's graduate. I don't see him favoring La Salle. Same with D.J. Carstensan. Take him too.

As for how to speed up La Salle? I don't think the press would have done much. G usually has his guards prepared against the press. Stukes and Shuler faced full court pressure for the whole game a couple days earlier against Fordham without a turnover. The last few years they have had no issues with VCU's Havoc. Using a 1-3-1 zone would have been an interesting test. It was important that La Salle kept out of traps by just having that one ballhandler and four on the baseline.

I hope I gave you some insight from the other side. Good luck.

Smitty10 · #53 01-11-2016, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by La Salle fan

I am a La Salle fan who comes in peace. My take on several posts on the game.

In my opinion La Salle won the game by dictating the tempo and playing great defense. You can only milk the shot clock if you have the lead. Dayton at one time had a 9 point lead in the first half which should stop La Salle game plan but didn't. No one to blame except themselves.

Dayton for the season has a shot line of 26-56/6.8-19/16.5-25. Against La Salle, their line was 17-55/7-25/16-24. So in reality, La Salle's strategy didn't deny Dayton many opportunities. According to kenpom, Dayton normally plays to 71 possessions per game and they had 68 against La Salle. So the pace wasn't all the slow.

La Salle's defense allowed 7 less FG's and made Dayton attempt 5 more 3's. That's the story of the game. Shoot 31% doesn't win many games. In fact if you take Cooke out of the equation, it is worse. The rest of the team shot 10-39 .256 and 3-19 .157 from 3.

La Salle got the best game of the year from Stukes( his main strength is getting into the lane) and Shuler together. Normally Price is the one in the 1-4 (which G has used a lot but the 7 game losing streak didn't allow lately). If Archie had looked at the film of the first four games, he would see this used a fair amount mostly to get into the bonus or protect the lead. The two SO guards needed to execute and they did.

As for the refs, please be my guest and take Tim Kelly. We have seen him 4-5 times this year including our scrimmages. We have had enough of him. His travel call on Shuler who was fouled was atrocious. He has made his fair share of bad calls against us including Saturday. He was the Golf Coach a few years ago at La Salle and is a St. Joseph's graduate. I don't see him favoring La Salle. Same with D.J. Carstensan. Take him too.

As for how to speed up La Salle? I don't think the press would have done much. G usually has his guards prepared against the press. Stukes and Shuler faced full court pressure for the whole game a couple days earlier against Fordham without a turnover. The last few years they have had no issues with VCU's Havoc. Using a 1-3-1 zone would have been an interesting test. It was important that La Salle kept out of traps by just having that one ballhandler and four on the baseline.

I hope I gave you some insight from the other side. Good luck.

Don't know if it would've helped or not, but full court pressure might not lead to more turnovers but it would force your team to work a little to get the ball past mid court. Any little thing to force a 6 man team to work a little harder can only be good.

Sea Bass · #54 01-11-2016, 06:19 PM

I will give some credit to John G. his team generally likes to play fast but he got his guys to buy in on playing slow.

He took away Flyers transition game which basically negates Kyle Davis as a threat. He packed in the zone to eliminate Steve as a scoring threat. He got a break that Kendall was not available. He hoped that Scooch and Darrel would continue his poor shooting thus only worried about defending Cooke and Pierre. It all worked as he got the wrong guys to take a lot of shots and the backcourt was a combined 5 for 26 from the floor and 8-13 from the line.

He rolled the dice on what he thought was his only way to win and it worked. The abysmal shooting on the road is a real problem as well as the poor shooting of Scoochie.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #55 01-11-2016, 07:34 PM

Despite the negative feedback on here to my comment about the 5 second closely guarded rule being eliminated, per this article at least a "dozen prominent coaches" feel the same way I do.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...e-huge-concern

From the link-
In speaking with more than a dozen prominent coaches around the sport for this story, their two biggest gripes were not being able to call live-ball timeouts and the elimination of the five-second count for closely guarding a dribbler.

Glad to know I am in the company of "more than a dozen prominent coaches" Then again what do they know, they are not posters on UDPride

PS- Thanks to my new friend on here for sending me this link!

SeasonTicketFan · #56 01-11-2016, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Don't know if it would've helped or not, but full court pressure might not lead to more turnovers but it would force your team to work a little to get the ball past mid court. Any little thing to force a 6 man team to work a little harder can only be good.

LaSalle fan. How did they lose 7 straight?

Was this their Super Bowl win or will they take up a notch after defeating UD?

Smitty10 · #57 01-11-2016, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

Despite the negative feedback on here to my comment about the 5 second closely guarded rule being eliminated, per this article at least a "dozen prominent coaches" feel the same way I do.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...e-huge-concern

From the link-
In speaking with more than a dozen prominent coaches around the sport for this story, their two biggest gripes were not being able to call live-ball timeouts and the elimination of the five-second count for closely guarding a dribbler.

Glad to know I am in the company of "more than a dozen prominent coaches" Then again what do they know, they are not posters on UDPride

PS- Thanks to my new friend on here for sending me this link!

Only a dozen

Yes, I'm sure prominent coaches don't like it because they most likely would never have to use it. Can't imagine they are in a situation where they have to shorten the game due to minimum resources.

I'm, guessing those same prominent coaches also favor paying college athletes unlimited amount of pay too.

CE80 · #58 01-11-2016, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by La Salle fan

Dayton for the season has a shot line of 26-56/6.8-19/16.5-25. Against La Salle, their line was 17-55/7-25/16-24. So in reality, La Salle's strategy didn't deny Dayton many opportunities. According to kenpom, Dayton normally plays to 71 possessions per game and they had 68 against La Salle. So the pace wasn't all that slow.

La Salle's defense allowed 9 less FG's and made Dayton attempt 6 more 3's. That's the story of the game. Shooting 31% doesn't win many games. In fact if you take Cooke out of the equation, it is worse. The rest of the team shot 10-39 .256 and 3-19 .157 from 3.

My theory that Since LaSalle was milking the clock, the time to create UDs normal amount of possessions came as the result of the Flyers turnovers and trying to dictate the pace by playing quicker themselves. Bad shots were taken too quick and by the wrong players. Also too many turnovers.

As pointed out, the counter to the LaSalle plan is to get a lead and force them to play quicker to close the gap. Playing quicker yourself is not going to change what they do you need to play your normal offense.

La Salle fan · #59 01-12-2016, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

LaSalle fan. How did they lose 7 straight?

Was this their Super Bowl win or will they take up a notch after defeating UD?

Forgive me it was actually 8 in a row. Let me give you the Cliff Note version of the streak.
1. Penn - this might have been the worst game G coached. Penn's 6-11 C had a career game. Scored 31 and had 14 rebounds. Was 14-19 from the field. G never adjusted. The Penn kid hasn't had a game close to this.

2. Drexel and 3.Hofstra. In my opinion, the two Philly coaches (Bruiser from Drexel and Joe Michalich from Hofstra) used G's defense against him. They knew what to expect and exploited it. Pick and roll to death. Should have beaten Drexel and Hofstra was there for the taking.

4. Villanova and 5. Miami Fl. Two top 10 teams. Enough said. I will say this Miami is more impressive in person than on TV. They are big and deep. The guy guarding Price is tremendous defensively.

6. FL Gulf Coast- away game. First game without Rohan and Yevgen. Back and forth even game until last couple of minutes. They ran out of gas. Cleon Roberts had 31 in his return to FL.

7. UMASS and 8. Fordham. Quite honestly these were similiar to FGCU. UMASS lead was 62-60 with 6 1/2 left. Ran out of gas and lost 74-67. Fordham game was tight the whole game. Rhoomes had a big game against the depleted La Salle frontline with 25 and 18. I hate to bring up officials but at one point in second half La Salle was called for 8 straight fouls in 4:30. Fordham was 26-34 from the line while La Salle was 10-15.

As for the Super Bowl. I don't think so. It will be interesting to see how they fare in next 4 games (at Richmond and Rhode Island then at Palestra with Temple (OCC) and finally home against SJU).

Will be watching Dayton-Davidson game tonight. Should be a good one.

soccerflyer · #60 01-18-2016, 03:47 PM

Injury plagued La Salle hasn't beaten a D1 program, other than Dayton, since three days before Thanksgiving. La Salle fan and I don't count Rowan, either.

CE80 · #61 01-18-2016, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by soccerflyer

Injury plagued La Salle hasn't beaten a D1 program, other than Dayton, since three days before Thanksgiving. La Salle fan and I don't count Rowan, either.

Thanks but from now on, just let the fact that it is Monday and we are unranked again, serve as the reminder as to how bad the LaSalle loss was.

Smitty10 · #62 01-18-2016, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

Thanks but from now on, just let the fact that it is Monday and we are unranked again, serve as the reminder as to how bad the LaSalle loss was.

At least we've moved up to tied for 27th in Coaches poll. Would getting into the top 25 and falling out more than once during a regular season count as progress?

CE80 · #63 01-18-2016, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

At least we've moved up to tied for 27th in Coaches poll. Would getting into the top 25 and falling out more than once during a regular season count as progress?

Win at LaSalle and we are sitting at #20 in front of USC. Then we could possibly lose one and not drop out altogether. That's progress.

Smitty10 · #64 01-18-2016, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

Win at LaSalle and we are sitting at #20 in front of USC. Then we could possibly lose one and not drop out altogether. That's progress.

Yep, looks like we have to extend our current 2 game winning streak out to 8 before we can afford to lose at Rhode Island. That LaSalle game is a kick in the cojones that is going to keep hurting for a long time.