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02-29-2012, 08:52 PM
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How about a charge?
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02-29-2012, 08:52 PM
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Captain
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Stay classy spiders
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02-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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How is that not a charge? He leveled Kav and Kav was outside the line.
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02-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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Colonel
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Pop goes the bubble!
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02-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by shocka43
Matt just got treated like a B.
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I'm just suprised he didn't get called for a foul
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02-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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I hate Richmond with the red hot passion of 1000 suns.
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02-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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Classy bunch in Richmond. Way to teach your team Mooney.
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02-29-2012, 08:54 PM
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and some of the phantom fouls have been ridiculous
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02-29-2012, 08:54 PM
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Captain
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Originally Posted by jack72
How is that not a charge? He leveled Kav and Kav was outside the line.
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Have you been watching...I can't believe they didn't foul kavs out on the play.
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02-29-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by VirgM
Can't wait until PW walks out the door for good. Totally disappointed with his efforts for half the games this year.
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Just going through the motions unless it is his turn to score. Then he gives effort. Callous or not, I really don't care. That effort has no place. Lazy and just buying his time until he gets out the door. Typical effort...do just enough to get noticed by Europe and say the hell with anything else.
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02-29-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by redbengal
Pop goes the bubble!
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The fact that this team was even on the bubble shows how weak of a bubble it is this year. A bubble team can lose to Buffalo by 30, Rhode Island and win very few road games. What a year for college basketball!
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02-29-2012, 08:55 PM
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It was theirs for the taking tonight
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02-29-2012, 08:56 PM
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Dillard got called for a foul on three point play, goes down to the other end and draws far more contact on his shot and no call.
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02-29-2012, 08:58 PM
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A-10 should be embarrassed by the quality of their refs--but I'm sure they don't give a shizit
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02-29-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kiefaber455
A-10 should be embarrassed by the quality of their refs--but I'm sure they don't give a shizit
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of course not, just like they don't care about their TV contract. mcglade is worthless
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02-29-2012, 08:59 PM
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Richmond is not good at all. Very poor effort by us. Very embarassing.
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02-29-2012, 09:00 PM
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If nothing else, I'm glad we're hanging tough just for that classless display on the dunk.
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02-29-2012, 09:01 PM
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At least CJ gives an overall effort...he doesn't want to go out on a sour note for the end of his career.
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02-29-2012, 09:01 PM
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We are up on all the stats except free throws made. They have 8 more free throws made.
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02-29-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kiefaber455
A-10 should be embarrassed by the quality of their refs--but I'm sure they don't give a shizit
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I have said for years the league will have no credability until they get refs that are not a joke.
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02-29-2012, 09:03 PM
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That right there typifies the effort tonight.
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02-29-2012, 09:03 PM
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Holy crap, just as quickly as UD kept after it, they totally stopped playing after not boxing the shooter.
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02-29-2012, 09:03 PM
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Fitting that any hope we had is squashed by an offensive rebound.
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02-29-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer_Tom
I have said for years the league will have no credability until they get refs that are not a joke.
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It will have even less credibility if and when Temple leaves
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02-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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What a lazy disgusting ending by our Flyers. I cannot forgive poor effort and once again we saw it tonight.
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02-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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What a ****show on a free throw box out...
Other than CJ, I wouldn't expect anything else out of these seniors.
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02-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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*pop*
:-(
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02-29-2012, 09:05 PM
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God I hope we play them in the tourny they will crush this team given another shot.
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02-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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just like i did with BG, i'll blame archie for this one. refs awful, but to be expected, also on road. but lack of effort from the get go is on the coaching staff. looked flat for the first 12 minutes of the game. no energy, we're fighting for a spot in the tourney in a must win game and we are slow and no intensity. gotta have the players ready to go
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02-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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Defensive effort lacking. Lack of focus. Just pathetic all around. Don't blame the refs, we lost this all on our own.
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02-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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this team has overachieved. They have two good players (Dillard and Johnson) and that is it. Players 3-9 would be end of the bench players for almost every other team in the A10.
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02-29-2012, 09:07 PM
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We needed Kavs tonight. He was amped to play, and I think picking up that second foul with 16+ minutes left put us in a hole and allowed Richmond to set the tone for the game. I don't know if they were good calls or not, but I did notice that the ref went to the same high school as Brothers. lol
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02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
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82 points to a mediocre team like Richmond is not believable. A lack of coaching and player effort. AM needs to kick some butt.
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02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer_Tom
God I hope we play them in the tourny they will crush this team given another shot.
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What in the world makes you think that? If this team wanted it, tonight was the night to show it with so much on the line.
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02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
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that last missed foul shot JP stood their and did nothing. Did not block out or pursue the ball.
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02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
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Disappointing game and effort. Painful to watch and painful to hang on our record.
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02-29-2012, 09:09 PM
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Give up 82 yet held UMass to 46--go figure
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02-29-2012, 09:09 PM
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Kavs is an awful defender and can't defend in the past without fouling. If the opponent has a post presence he is going to torch the Flyers and get him in foul trouble. It has happened the entire season.
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02-29-2012, 09:09 PM
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Only the fourth time this year Richmond scored over 80 points. 50, 53, 52, and 57 in their last four games before tonight. Terrible.
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02-29-2012, 09:12 PM
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Seems like everyone else in the league cared enough to show up tonight to compete. UMass looks to be heading to OT at Temple, SJU and the Bonnies are in double OT.
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02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
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JP plays with effort, but the results aren't there right now.
CJ is busting his hump.
Luke and Paul have packed their bags. And unless there is an effort from here on out, I won't say otherwise.
KD...good O, no D.
MK, playing hard, not athletic enough to not get beat up on D.
DO, playing hard and the only one to get in lanes on D. Taking shots he shouldn't take.
RH, AG aren't there. Filler minutes...some good some bad.
I am hoping to see tougher post defense from the girls team in Philly this weekend. Sad to miss senior night, but not as sad as years past. Time to turn the page and change the mentality.
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02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
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the team has not been able to stand prosperity all year. Every really big win has been followed up by laying an egg. At least the bubble talk can end.
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02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Kavs is an awful defender and can't defend in the past without fouling. If the opponent has a post presence he is going to torch the Flyers and get him in foul trouble. It has happened the entire season.
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At least 2 of Kav's fouls were phantom calls tonight.
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02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic21
Only the fourth time this year Richmond scored over 80 points. 50, 53, 52, and 57 in their last four games before tonight. Terrible.
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Archie may need to go to summer school to learn or hire another assistant who can teach how to play defense
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02-29-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
that last missed foul shot JP stood their and did nothing. Did not block out or pursue the ball.
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JP threw his hands at Paul as if it was his fault. Paul pinched the middle and no one boxed shooter. One of the two missed their assignment.
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02-29-2012, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
JP threw his hands at Paul as if it was his fault. Paul pinched the middle and no one boxed shooter. One of the two missed their assignment.
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if you don't have anyone to box out you pursue the ball, not drift toward mid court.
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02-29-2012, 09:21 PM
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the defensive problems are because none of the four interior guys (MK, LF, AG, RH) can defend. The Flyers have been torched in the paint all year. If you can't defend the post you are going to struggle to defend the perimeter.
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02-29-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick
Defensive effort lacking. Lack of focus. Just pathetic all around. Don't blame the refs, we lost this all on our own.
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I certainly don't pin this loss on the refs. They Flyers gave up WAY too many open looks and easy drives. But the refs were horrible, as they often are. I would just like to watch a few games in a row where I thought the refs did not have a major factor in the game.
I watched the SLU v. XU game yesterday and that game was like a rugby match with fewer calls. It has to be hard to play when you have no idea what the refs are calling game to game.
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02-29-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
if you don't have anyone to box out you pursue the ball, not drift toward mid court.
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Boils down to the previous...effort and cranial rectal inversion.
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02-29-2012, 09:25 PM
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they got abused in the paint by Williams and let Brothers get started. That was enough for an L. On the road this team has an extremely small margin of error because of their dearth of talent.
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02-29-2012, 09:38 PM
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On the bright side, all is back to where it was after the Rhode Island loss. We've still played "pretty good" since then, but not spectacularly enough to earn a bid. So we need to win in Atlantic City. Just like we thought back then.
And we still could.
There's also still a slight (slight, small, tiny) possibility of a bid if we win out and lose to Temple in the finals, bursting bubbles along the way. But that would also be dependent on everybody else in the world on the bubble losing and no upsets in conference tourneys. In other words, win AC.
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02-29-2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
I don't know if they were good calls or not, but I did notice that the ref went to the same high school as Brothers. lol
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Brothers was 9-11 from the line tonight. Dayton as a team was 9-11.
D'oh!
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02-29-2012, 09:56 PM
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This game was about as painful to watch as Duquense @ the Arena.
Brothers is torching you, so you continue to leave him open?
Mr. Sta-Puf Williams only goes to his right, so you play him straight-up on drives into the lane?
What, Gavs, were you afraid a spin move was coming? The guy weighs 270 friggin' pounds and you weigh 225 - if he spins, you should be able to recover prettty %$#^ quickly! And then Sta-Puf gets the ball near the foul line, posts- down, away from the hoop, to set a screen for a 3, and with the way Richmond's shooting 3's, JP goes under the screen (and, of course, they bury the 3). That and the riduculous failure to box-out on the FT at the end cost us 5 points in an 11-point loss.
And though we lost this game all by ourselves, the stripes were pretty bad. At least 2 of the 4 calls on Kav were "sneeze" fouls, including (IIRC) his 3rd foul that put him back on the pine early in the 2nd half, just as we were making a run (with him leading the way). And while Dillard definitely got the guy (Brothers?) on the drive in the lane, I thought KD got bumped on his drive at the other end (in what IIRC was the very next play) with no call. Some of these guys must go to the Rohrschach school of officiating.
"It looks like...a blocking foul. No - wait - travelling!"
But with Greenwood being the head of the league officials, you can't expect them to be too competent - he was far from great, himself.
Oh, well, on to Senior Day and hosting an A-10 opener next week.
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02-29-2012, 10:12 PM
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Archie Told on Himself
Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
just like i did with BG, i'll blame archie for this one. refs awful, but to be expected, also on road. but lack of effort from the get go is on the coaching staff. looked flat for the first 12 minutes of the game. no energy, we're fighting for a spot in the tourney in a must win game and we are slow and no intensity. gotta have the players ready to go
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During pregame, Larry asked Coach Miller if under these circumstances the coaches discuss what is at stake with the team; and, to my dismay, Archie said no… we really don't talk about that, as we hate to distract our kids with the pressure of such an important game with so much at stake.
I really like Archie, but please, give me a break. Big games call for motivation, and thus should not try to ignore the importance, but rather embrace it and play your buns off leaving nothing on the court. Nothing could have been further from reality tonight. How in the world do you let Richmond score 80 plus points? A performance like this would even make the NIT selection committee a little uneasy. This game hurt UD in so many ways, and should have been all about the urgency and importance of this game.
Hopefully, we can rebound Saturday and win some A-10 tourney games, as well as some post season NCAA or NIT tourney games.
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02-29-2012, 10:16 PM
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Was it the first four that put us on the road in the NIT last year even though we were the higher seed? If so, the incentive of UD's home crowd is gone and depending on what happens in the conference tournament, we may not even get that call.
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02-29-2012, 10:22 PM
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Think I know how a Cubs fan feels, this team has for DECADES (JOB era excluded) has always raised my hopes for success and then BAM!!! takes it away from us, why cant we finish these things? Yeah its a conference road game and we are young but come on this is getting so old
rant over
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02-29-2012, 10:25 PM
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Watched Brothers the other night and he looked exactly like the type of player that has given our guards fits all year. Not all that suprised that he blew up tonight. Dillard should be forced to just do the Hoosiers footwork drills all summer long. All these guys should just do footwork drills all summer long. Nothing but defense, no balls in the gyms whatsoever.
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02-29-2012, 10:36 PM
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Williams was the main defender on Brothers. They even tried CJ and he managed to foul him on a three pointer.
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02-29-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Williams was the main defender on Brothers. They even tried CJ and he managed to foul him on a three pointer.
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True, but KD will be returning next year.
One more chance to keep it above 500 in league.
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02-29-2012, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rasta man
Think I know how a Cubs fan feels, this team has for DECADES (JOB era excluded) has always raised my hopes for success and then BAM!!! takes it away from us, why cant we finish these things? Yeah its a conference road game and we are young but come on this is getting so old
rant over
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Not to be a richard noggin, but if you raised your expectations and got disappointed, it is your own fault. This team has by far exceeded expectations for this season and the situation they are in.
By no means does this excuse **** poor performances by upperclassmen, but the expectations for success are out of line if they haven't met them.
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03-01-2012, 12:35 AM
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At some point the higher expectations are legitimate. If the student gets A's and B+'s on every other test and earns a D on every other test, then there is much more wrong with the student than there is with those of us doing everything under the Sun to help the student be successful. At some point you must make your own focus and consistency part of the process. Unfortunately the Flyers have not shown a true desire to manage or correct this portion of their performances.
Expectations around here are not high enough. When a team wins several BCS games, wins at Temple (who beat Duke there) splits with Xavier and SLU, and Beats UMass by 33, the expectations are merely linked to those wins, and thus this is no reason to fall on your face so badly against Richmond, Rhody, Buffalo, etc. You can explain it until you are blue in the face, but it will still not be a good explanation. You know when an individual player is under achieving, and the Flyers have a few fellows who suffer from this on a fairly regular basis. Get in the game! The season is still far from over, and I still have hope for a fun and good finish; but, this has the "most players were recruited and trained by you know who written all over it."
Last edited by Beatty Town Coach; 03-01-2012 at 12:37 AM..
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03-01-2012, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
At some point the higher expectations are legitimate. If the student gets A's and B+'s on every other test and earns a D on every other test, then there is much more wrong with the student than there is with those of us doing everything under the Sun to help the student be successful. At some point you must make your own focus and consistency part of the process. Unfortunately the Flyers have not shown a true desire to manage or correct this portion of their performances.
Expectations around here are not high enough. When a team wins several BCS games, wins at Temple (who beat Duke there) splits with Xavier and SLU, and Beats UMass by 33, the expectations are merely linked to those wins, and thus this is no reason to fall on your face so badly against Richmond, Rhody, Buffalo, etc. You can explain it until you are blue in the face, but it will still not be a good explanation. You know when an individual player is under achieving, and the Flyers have a few fellows who suffer from this on a fairly regular basis. Get in the game! The season is still far from over, and I still have hope for a fun and good finish; but, this has the "most players were recruited and trained by you know who written all over it."
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Correct, had we went through the 2011-2012 campaign with the same staff, coach, and players...Take Paul...some A performances with a C being average. Those that are expecting A's every night, aren't going to get it from him. Therefore, most team expectations are set based on what they guys do on the average, not on the exception.
The issue is that some expectations were set on the fact that we don't have the horses to go through the rigors of the season, not game to game. IMO, my predictions were based on us wearing out towards the end of the season, no matter how strong we were at the beginning or midddle, strictly due to the wear and tear that goes on throughout a season.
Eventually, the law of averages kick in, and for every big win we had this year, IMO there was going to be a letdown loss.
I am not making excuses, because there aren't excuses for some of the play we have seen this year, but there are a handful of fans that kept their expectations the same even after some of our better wins.
I have the same expectations for AM and UD hoops as I did under BG. I just didn't expect AM or the UD hoops team to achieve them this year. If they do, great. If they don't, I would definitely consider a team with limited scholarship players, let alone good scholarship players, not to be in the boat we are in now. I'll take it.
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03-01-2012, 11:37 AM
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I understand, but you obviously made that mental prediction prior to the Benson injury, and I suspect there is no doubt that having Benson in conference play changes this season dramatically.
Besides, although we had a low number of players, I never really bought the notion that a junior/senior group made up of Paul, Luke, CJ, Parker, Benson, and Kavs would be joined by a guard like Dillard (valley rookie of the year) and end playing .500 basketball?????????
The expectations around this program are not that high, that's been part of the problem for a long time and will continue until folks stop making excuses. I am much more into winning than I am whining. To that end I think the head basketball coach should have reminded his guys’ everyday of how important the Richmond game was. None of this “I don’t want to distract them with the details.”
Motivation is substantial part of coaching.
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03-01-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
I understand, but you obviously made that mental prediction prior to the Benson injury, and I suspect there is no doubt that having Benson in conference play changes this season dramatically.
Besides, although we had a low number of players, I never really bought the notion that a junior/senior group made up of Paul, Luke, CJ, Parker, Benson, and Kavs would be joined by a guard like Dillard (valley rookie of the year) and end playing .500 basketball?????????
The expectations around this program are not that high, that's been part of the problem for a long time and will continue until folks stop making excuses. I am much more into winning than I am whining. To that end I think the head basketball coach should have reminded his guys’ everyday of how important the Richmond game was. None of this “I don’t want to distract them with the details.”
Motivation is substantial part of coaching.
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Benson hurt dramatically. But to think that this was going to be a great ball club with the huge holes that some players have, IMO isn't right. I don't know if that was exactly what you were trying to say, but 3 of the 4 seniors are non to minimal factors in 50% of the games they have played in for a good portion of their career. I didn't expect them to get much better joined by a better PG. I would have expected guys like CJ, CW, MJ, JB, etc..to get better with a fully functioning PG. I think we have seen that recently out of CJ and we definitely saw that out of Benson.
With the strides that this team has made, I think that expectations will be equal to or higher than BG's era. My initial expectations this year were lower, given obvious reasons. New coach, new style, loss of two scholarship players, loss of two recruits, etc...Anyone who expected us to be world beaters this year were kidding themselves.
I am not defending AM's comments, but the players know the importance of games. They don't need to be reminded, and if they do, their head is in the sand. I knew the impact of **** near every competitive sporting event I ever played in. I don't see why they wouldn't either.
I know that my programmatic expectations aren't low. They never were. I did adjust them, as I stated above. I EXPECT our program in the near future to be on par with X in terms of post season and conference success, while still graduating players. They have set the bar, we haven't. If AM gets there, great. If he does not, then it needs to be looked at why.
There aren't any excuses for not having success with the resources we have. None whatsoever. I think the tide will turn, and the type of player that was here for the last 8 seasons wasn't going to get it done. The biggest offenders right now, are part of that. The bright spots that we do have, weren't. MK barely played, KD wasn't playing, AG wasn't thought of, etc. JB had the ability in the past, but wasn't allowed to use it and didn't have a PG worth a stink. The guys that were "go to" guys in the past that are still on our roster, are the ones not cutting the mustard now. That gives me hope that the tide will turn, and I think that next season, my expectations will be a bit higher than this year and so on.
As for what the papers say...I take them with a grain of salt...coaches need to stress the importance of EVERY game, not just the big ones. I think that may be part of the "up for the big games, fall for the little games" scenario that we have seen one too many times.
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Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-01-2012, 03:27 PM
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i think an Assistant Coach who primarily stresses and teaches defense and team defense is exactly what is needed.
i know he just set his staff. And those coaches probably say yeah we teach defense.... however....
just sayin!
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