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  #1  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:52 AM
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Big Ten discussing 20 game schedule

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...nference-slate

ACC is already moving to a 20 game schedule. Will the SEC & PAC12 follow? Big 12 and Big East can't

If it gets harder and harder to schedule P5 teams does the A10 move to a 20 game schedule?
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:13 PM
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Just a way to make it harder on those not in the p5.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:15 PM
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With the Big Ten ACC challenge, Gavit Games and other events this is gonna make next to impossible to ever hope to play an ACC or Big 10 team again
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:46 PM
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It would actually make scheduling easier if the A10 goes to 20. You would play 7 teams twice and 6 teams once.

The BE would have to go to 10.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:37 PM
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Screw em. I say call their bluff and go down to a 14 game schedule and have everyone in the league play complete patsies for the extra 4 games AT HOME. If everyone has twenty + wins it will improve everyone's RPI. Isn't that what the big east did for years and years?

Can you imagine the howling at NCAA tournament time when the A10 gets 6 teams in-- all by virtue of winning top 50 games against each other?
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Screw em. I say call their bluff and go down to a 14 game schedule and have everyone in the league play complete patsies for the extra 4 games AT HOME. If everyone has twenty + wins it will improve everyone's RPI. Isn't that what the big east did for years and years?

Can you imagine the howling at NCAA tournament time when the A10 gets 6 teams in-- all by virtue of winning top 50 games against each other?
Can you expand on this?

I do not see how this would help.

I ran the rpi wizard. I dropped 2 home a10 games, and I dropped 2 a10 away games. The 4 a10 teams that I dropped were all middle of the pack teams for the 2016-2017 season.

I dropped Davidson, SBU, GW, and George Mason.

I added 4 home wins vs. #200 Morehead State.

UD's rpi and sos went from 30 and 71 to 36 and 89.

Your idea seems to make things worse, not better.

Last edited by ud2; 06-15-2017 at 04:27 PM..
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Can you expand on this?

I do not see how this would help.

I ran the rpi wizard. I dropped 2 home a10 games, and I dropped 2 a10 away games. The 4 a10 teams that I dropped were all middle of the pack teams for the 2016-2017 season.

I dropped Davidson, SBU, GW, and George Mason.

I added 4 home games vs. #200 Morehead State.

UD's rpi and sos went from 30 and 71 to 36 and 89.

Your idea seems to make things worse, not better.
It really comes down to replacing some conference losses with non-conference wins. The more conference games, the more conference losses you are locking in before the season. The best the A10 can do as whole in conference is finish .500.

A10 Win% (2016-17)
Conference: 126-126 (.500)
Non-Conference: 104-66 (.612)
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
It really comes down to replacing some conference losses with non-conference wins. The more conference games, the more conference losses you are locking in before the season. The best the A10 can do as whole in conference is finish .500.

A10 Win% (2016-17)
Conference: 126-126 (.500)
Non-Conference: 104-66 (.612)
That makes sense.

I reran it, dropped our 3 a10 losses from this past season: at UMass, at VCU, and at GW, added 3 home wins vs. MSU...rpi 21 sos 82.

The selection committee will then hammer the a10 teams for having weak sos's...they will not let you game the system like that.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:15 PM
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UD would likely replace conference wins with non-conference wins. I was thinking more of the indirect impact of trading out some of the conference losses of the bottom teams. For example, UMass was 10-3 vs. non-conf and 5-15 vs the A10. Given their W/L%, if you switch out 4 games, you could replace 1-3 vs A10, with 3-1 vs. non-conf. That would take them from 15-18 to 17-16.

The trade off is not getting to play both URI and VCU twice at 14 games, which is a negative. I wasn't the biggest fan of going from 16 to 18 games, but it isn't entirely bad if we are going to be locked in with SLU and DUQ as 2 of the H/H's. I wouldn't want the A10 to follow suit with going to 20 games.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:34 PM
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UD2... I was saying this partly in jest but there is some truth to it. You can't look at it only improving our W/L recorded but the W/L record of EVERY A10 team.

14 is probably too low but I seriously think the A10 would be better off with a 16 game schedule if the P5 all go to 20 games. It would only work if the Fordham's, LaSalle's and St. Bona's of the A10 wouldn't prostitute themselves out and play two road games with the two extra non con games. If the A10 had a winning record of .800 for the 4 game delta between 20 and 16 (which is why I said play patsies) it could make the A10 look stronger in the RPI.

Going to 18 was probably good because it forced the aforementioned schools to play another home game instead of a "buy loss" to help meet their financial goals. This is one reason the A10 suffers during even good years--when 6-8 schools are competitive--because the dogs of the league lose so many buy games. That doesn't happen in the big east.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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The RPI boost comes if the bottom half of the conference all starts conference play with wins and a good record. They can have low SOS and not the greatest RPI but then when we beat them we get their wins for the first level of SOS and RPI.

As stated above, once conference play starts the conference can not gain any wins. Each conference game has a winner and a loser. But if Fordham and Duquesne can get 10-12 non con wins then the whole conference gets a boost. The worst thing for UD is to have a team play a tough non con and not get any wins but then turn it on in conference play.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:42 AM
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Two ways to boost RPI:

1. Join Big East
2. Remove two of the these (Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, St Louis)

I prefer #1, but am all in favor of #2.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Two ways to boost RPI:

1. Join Big East
2. Remove two of the these (Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, St Louis)

I prefer #1, but am all in favor of #2.
Preferably Fordham and Duquesne. Since La Salle and SLU actually have really good years every now and then.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:15 PM
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St louis will be back this year big time. They had a JOB type situation with Jim Crews.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:55 PM
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If just two, Fordham and LaSalle are probably top of the list. Neither have the resources or commitment to ever be more than what they have been. Duquesne is probably third on that list.

SLU has been bad for much of it's A10 tenure, but not because of lack of resources or commitment.

I would probably put St Bonnies third overall, as they lack the resources to ever be consistently good in a top 10 league. Despite that they have performed reasonably well in men's hoops. But I'd much rather have a SLU and hope they get their act together than someone with almost no upside from what is essentially mediocrity.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
I would probably put St Bonnies third overall, as they lack the resources to ever be consistently good in a top 10 league. Despite that they have performed reasonably well in men's hoops. But I'd much rather have a SLU and hope they get their act together than someone with almost no upside from what is essentially mediocrity.
The Bonnie's have 6 Top-100 Ken Pom finishes since '02. SLU and GMU also have 6. UMASS has 5. Duquesne, La Salle, and Fordham all have less than 5.

For some perspective, UD, VCU, Richmond, SJU and I think Davidson have double digits. GW has 6. URI has 7.

Last edited by hawkoooo; 06-16-2017 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Two ways to boost RPI:

1. Join Big East
2. Remove two of the these (Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, St Louis)

I prefer #1, but am all in favor of #2.
This "who should we get rid of argument" comes up often. Though it may never happen, I thought it was at least worth it to see what the performance of each school actually was over the last decade.

I ran the numbers and here is the average KenPom rating for each team over the last 10 years:
VCU: 43
Dayton: 58
Richmond: 89
Davidson: 90
URI: 102
SJU: 109
UMass: 119
GW: 124
SBU: 124
GMU: 127
LaSalle: 131
SLU: 138
Duq: 147
Fordham: 237

This really shows how much worse Fordham has been than everyone else in the conference. Duquense is 2nd worst, but they are least close to some schools. The ratings difference from 2nd to 13th is the same as the distance from 13th to 14th.

Fordham has 8 seasons in the last 10 with KenPom >200.
The rest of the conference has 9 total (Duq 3, SLU 3, LaS 1, GM 1, SBU 1).
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2017, 03:18 PM
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George Mason could be on that list, but we just let them join. What the heck was someone thinking?
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
George Mason could be on that list, but we just let them join. What the heck was someone thinking?
Ease up on GM, Dave Paulsen is a veteran hc with a track record of success. He also was a hc in d2 and d3 for about 15 years.

He has improved from year 1 to year 2.

I think he is going to work out at GM.


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Old 06-17-2017, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
The Bonnie's have 6 Top-100 Ken Pom finishes since '02. SLU and GMU also have 6. UMASS has 5. Duquesne, La Salle, and Fordham all have less than 5.

For some perspective, UD, VCU, Richmond, SJU and I think Davidson have double digits. GW has 6. URI has 7.
The problem with the Bonnie's is with 6 top 100s in 15 years they are maxing out their potential. Others with more resources have a far higher ceiling.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:10 AM
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I think Dambrot will get it done at Duquesne. In the 2018 class they've already beat out West Virginia for a center from the Chillicothe area. He got some nice transfers as well in the spring. I don't know if they'll contend for A10 titles but I don't think they'll be the embarrassment that they've been.

LaSalle, well hopefully the transfer route they've taken makes them competitive.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
George Mason could be on that list, but we just let them join. What the heck was someone thinking?
GM finished at about rpi #200 after DP's 1st year.

They finished at about rpi #100 after year 2, a 50% improvement.

If they improve by another 50% this year, they will be a top 50, NIT-bound team.

It only took DP 2 years to turn Bucknell into a Patriot League contender, in year 3, he won the PL title.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:35 PM
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The other thing the 20 game schedule is gonna hurt is the quality of exempt tournaments. I suspect we won't see few if any Big10 or ACC teams in our neutral site exempt tourneys

If you're a Big10 or ACC school and you've got 20 conference games, the ACC/Big10 challenge.

Let's take Clemson or Georgia Tech. Both also have a SEC rival (South Carolina & Georgia) they play every year. That's 22 games out of 30 schedule right off the bat.

Instead of playing in the Charleston Classic or the standard neutral site exempt tourney I could see these schools going the route of just hosting an exempt tourney at their home arena with low majors to get the extra home games. Ohio State did this and played Florida H/H with both of them hosting at the rest of the tourney. OSU did this one year and played Notre Dame at Madison Square Garden.


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Old 06-17-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
GM finished at about rpi #200 after DP's 1st year.

They finished at about rpi #100 after year 2, a 50% improvement.

If they improve by another 50% this year, they will be a top 50, NIT-bound team.

It only took DP 2 years to turn Bucknell into a Patriot League contender, in year 3, he won the PL title.
And if Andy Dalton improves 50% he will lead the Bengals to the Superbowl.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:21 AM
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I don't think Paulsen gets them into the top 3 this year but he's a good coach. Within five years they should be a postseason team
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Old 06-21-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
It would actually make scheduling easier if the A10 goes to 20. You would play 7 teams twice and 6 teams once.

The BE would have to go to 10.
This reduces the ability for quality wins.

If the A10 rewards the better teams in the A10 with a stronger pod, then we get the best schedule possible in conference.

A10 teams need the opportunity for strong wins outside of the conference. Tying up your schedule with conference games increases the SOS and ease of scheduling for the P5 and hurts the non-P5 schools.

BE can do as they please OOC because they don't rely on it for their total body of work.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:43 AM
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Once again, we have to ask where are all the matchups between all the top mid-majors. Why aren't they scheduling each other? Yes, UD has SMC on a home/home basis, but where are the others? The top teams in the non P5 conferences should all be scheduling each other, along with one to two P5 if you can get it, then your buy games. That would give you the opportunity for 3 - 4 quality OOC wins, plus an exempt tourney, then conference. Yes, easier said than done, but if they want the SOS and RPI, they are going to have to get it done.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Once again, we have to ask where are all the matchups between all the top mid-majors. Why aren't they scheduling each other? Yes, UD has SMC on a home/home basis, but where are the others? The top teams in the non P5 conferences should all be scheduling each other, along with one to two P5 if you can get it, then your buy games. That would give you the opportunity for 3 - 4 quality OOC wins, plus an exempt tourney, then conference. Yes, easier said than done, but if they want the SOS and RPI, they are going to have to get it done.
I have to believe that there are several other good, non-p5 programs that are in the same boat as us:

Gonzaga, SMC, BYU, San Diego State, Boise State, Memphis, Cincinnati, SMU, UConn, Temple, Wichita State, New Mexico, Northern Iowa, Valpo, UNLV, etc.
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  #29  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:17 PM
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Indiana and Illinois with exempt tourney's at home against cup cakes. In a 20 game conference schedule this is gonna be the norm

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Old 06-29-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Indiana and Illinois with exempt tourney's at home against cup cakes. In a 20 game conference schedule this is gonna be the norm

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So those four games all at home plus their 20 game conference schedule? So what. That's only 24 games. How is that any different than them playing 4 buy games in the non-con.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
So those four games all at home plus their 20 game conference schedule? So what. That's only 24 games. How is that any different than them playing 4 buy games in the non-con.
Those 4 games are part of an exempt tournament, so only count as 1 game if I understand it correctly, so currently at 21 game schedule.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Those 4 games are part of an exempt tournament, so only count as 1 game if I understand it correctly, so currently at 21 game schedule.
This

Instead of playing at neutral site event like Charleston, Orlando, Maui, etc they're hosting their own tournament to get extra home games.

Hosting your own multi team exempt tourney at home for the extra games I think is going to become more common with the 20 game schedule and challenges, neutral site events, long standing rivalries, etc in the Big 10 and ACC.

What does this mean for the Flyers? I think we'll see fewer high quality opponents in exempt tourneys going forward. The fields in the future may be closer to the Charleston Classic this year with weaker opponents. 2/8 teams are from the Power 5 with Temple & Dayton as the only other opponents from multi-bid conferences

For example, Iowa who was a big OOC win two years ago in the Orlando tourney. If they go to a 20 game big schedule. They play Iowa State every year and in the ACC/B10 challenge along with the Gavitt Games against the Big East every so often.

There's gonna be a need to host a multi-team tourney to get their number of home games versus playing a neutral site event
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
This

Instead of playing at neutral site event like Charleston, Orlando, Maui, etc they're hosting their own tournament to get extra home games.

Hosting your own multi team exempt tourney at home for the extra games I think is going to become more common with the 20 game schedule and challenges, neutral site events, long standing rivalries, etc in the Big 10 and ACC.

What does this mean for the Flyers? I think we'll see fewer high quality opponents in exempt tourneys going forward. The fields in the future may be closer to the Charleston Classic this year with weaker opponents. 2/8 teams are from the Power 5 with Temple & Dayton as the only other opponents from multi-bid conferences

For example, Iowa who was a big OOC win two years ago in the Orlando tourney. If they go to a 20 game big schedule. They play Iowa State every year and in the ACC/B10 challenge along with the Gavitt Games against the Big East every so often.

There's gonna be a need to host a multi-team tourney to get their number of home games versus playing a neutral site event

I agree with what your saying, but The fact the NCAA allows you to "host" your own "exempt" tourney is ridiculous. This needs to change ASAP, or I fear our schedule will suck more in the future.
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  #34  
Old 06-29-2017, 05:19 PM
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I think Dayton probably has to consider to hosting their own if the quality of exempt tourney's drops. If we got four home games out of it, that would free up the schedule for some more home/home series.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:32 PM
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We used to have our own tournament

Bring back the Merrill Lynch Classic.

I remember Butler, Cal, and Drake coming to that quite often.

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Old 06-29-2017, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
Bring back the Merrill Lynch Classic.

I remember Butler, Cal, and Drake coming to that quite often.
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Those 4 games are part of an exempt tournament, so only count as 1 game if I understand it correctly, so currently at 21 game schedule.
Wow. Did not know that part. I retract my statement. Also hosting a tournament like that would be cool. And if it included those three teams or similar every year I'd be jacked.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
Bring back the Merrill Lynch Classic.

I remember Butler, Cal, and Drake coming to that quite often.
Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Wow. Did not know that part. I retract my statement. Also hosting a tournament like that would be cool. And if it included those three teams or similar every year I'd be jacked.

And that is the problem. Before you know it, everyone of the BCS conference schools, or whatever we are suppose to call them now, will be hosting tournaments like this. Zero chance of getting a Cal or Butler if we did such a thing, pure luck for even a Drake. When the best IU can get is Howard, South Florida, Ark. State and Eastern Mich how could we expect to get better teams?
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
And that is the problem. Before you know it, everyone of the BCS conference schools, or whatever we are suppose to call them now, will be hosting tournaments like this. Zero chance of getting a Cal or Butler if we did such a thing, pure luck for even a Drake. When the best IU can get is Howard, South Florida, Ark. State and Eastern Mich how could we expect to get better teams?
I am pretty sure this is by design by IU. These tournaments go on each year, and the host school almost always picks schools that guarantee they will win. Normally it's 1 game against a team you should win and then 2 games against cupcakes.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I am pretty sure this is by design by IU. These tournaments go on each year, and the host school almost always picks schools that guarantee they will win. Normally it's 1 game against a team you should win and then 2 games against cupcakes.
Your probably right. If your name is Indiana, you do not need to strategically schedule RPI boosters on your non conference schedule like our Flyers do

What is the math come tourney time, a 55 RPI for a Big 10 school gets chosen over a 35 RPI from a "mid major"?
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:34 PM
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20-GAME LEAGUE SCHEDULES WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR CERTAIN CONFERENCES

Times continue to change in college basketball.

FanRag Sports reported last week that Big Ten programs are prepared to go from 18 to 20 league games as early as the 2018-19 season and with the ACC already set to make the transition during the 2019-20 season, one has to wonder when all major leagues will make this change.

What does this mean for conferences that aren’t in the Power 5 with the exception of the Big East?

A major potential problem in terms of how many teams they get in the NCAA Tournament on an annual basis.

This writer has said repeatedly in this space and others that conferences like the Atlantic 10 and the American need to look into doing an early-season challenge to get their NCAA Tournament contenders as many quality games as possible and that sentiment will need to be expedited as more leagues go to 20 conference games.

The American took a major step forward with the addition of Wichita State, but all bets are off for certain leagues and their potential NCAA Tournament representation if power conferences begin playing 20 league games.

Two more conference games against quality competition will completely alter the metrics used to comprise the teams in the field of 68 and there’s no way of getting around it.

The Mountain West has gone through multiple years with only one team in the NCAA Tournament and there’s no guarantee that will be change in 2018.

Coaches in non-power leagues need to address this topic at their next conference meeting — or earlier.

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  #41  
Old 08-28-2017, 11:10 PM
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There's only so much that can be done unless the NCAA wants to push play outside of conference. They could do it if they wanted to and should considering that the NCAA tournament is built on the idea of Cinderella teams having a chance at upsetting (and not always an upset) of a P5 conference team. If you make it so only the P5 conference teams are in the tournament, viewership will dramatically decrease. Of course, the non-P5 conferences should be setting up either neutral site or home/home with each other, but each year it's sort of a crap-shoot as to what teams will be good. But with scheduling getting more and more difficult, I don't know how you solve this. I guess one way would be to say you only get to count x number of conference games towards an NCAA bid, so even if you play 20, no more than 16 would be recognized. Not sure that's workable, but you get the idea.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:23 AM
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Why can't non "power 5" conferences simply have agreements in place to do a few big time non-con showdowns based on the prior year's finish?

MW/A10

AAC/A10

If every year you knew you'd have 1-2 big games no matter what it seems like that would more than make up for the "power 5" going to 20 games. I hate those **** terms so I have to use quotations.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
There's only so much that can be done unless the NCAA wants to push play outside of conference. They could do it if they wanted to and should considering that the NCAA tournament is built on the idea of Cinderella teams having a chance at upsetting (and not always an upset) of a P5 conference team. If you make it so only the P5 conference teams are in the tournament, viewership will dramatically decrease. Of course, the non-P5 conferences should be setting up either neutral site or home/home with each other, but each year it's sort of a crap-shoot as to what teams will be good. But with scheduling getting more and more difficult, I don't know how you solve this. I guess one way would be to say you only get to count x number of conference games towards an NCAA bid, so even if you play 20, no more than 16 would be recognized. Not sure that's workable, but you get the idea.
As long as conference champions get an autobid, there will be Cinderellas. I don't think viewership will change much either way if the A10 or American gets another team or 2 in the tourney as opposed to the ACC or Big 10.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:54 AM
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Maybe, but when you've watered down the tournament, by having fewer Cinderellas and more Wake Forests who probably have losing conference records, and a wins from a schedule padded with a few patsies, they'll lose me as a viewer. If the A-10 gets to the point where it's a 1 bid conference because the top teams can't secure enough top 50 wins or whatever they determine is important, then it becomes pointless, and completely degrades the conferences because what good recruits will want to play anywhere where they will have little chance of ever playing in the tournament?
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:31 PM
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Aside from the P5 and the BE, last years field looked like this.

American (2): SMU, Cincinnati
Atlantic 10 (3): Dayton, VCU, Rhode Island
West Coast (2): Gonzaga, Saint Mary’s

As much as we care, the viewer that only watches CBB during the tourney won't care if those 7 teams are reduced to 3.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:22 PM
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I suspect the NCAA is the only organization that can do anything about this, but I suspect they won't. So long as CBS forks over billions, they won't care what the P5 do.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:31 PM
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Who is the NCAA? It is run and influenced by the member schools. And although 80% are not the big schools, they hold the power, dollars and influence. Play their way or they will take their football and form their own basketball association.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:37 PM
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https://www.fanragsports.com/trickle...gue-schedules/


Where do these leagues turn now in terms of scheduling with most power conferences toying with the idea of all going to 20 games?

That’s to be determined.

This writer wrote over the summer that the Atlantic 10 and American Conference needed to investigate an early-season “challenge” in an effort to get the teams at the top of their respective leagues better games, but the American’s addition of Wichita State may have changed its urgency to participate in such an event.

With the addition of the Shockers, this league now has a bona fide top-tier program to go alongside Cincinnati, SMU, Temple and others.

Another thing to keep in mind?

The American hasn’t gotten the mileage it’s hoped the past few years out of its two strongest brands — UConn and Memphis.

If that changes, this could be easily be a four- or five-bid league on an annual basis.

*****

Most college coaches will tell you that scheduling is the second most important part of any program, after recruiting, and it’s going to get even harder.

If most teams from Power 5 leagues are committed to 20 conference games — and in the Big Ten’s case, an additional tilt in both the Gavitt Games and the ACC/Big Ten Challenge — then there’s going to be very little wiggle room with scheduling.

“You’re going to be committed to 24 or 25 games before you can even begin your schedule when you consider that you’re also probably playing in a preseason tournament,” one Big Ten assistant told FanRag Sports last week. “There’s going to be minimal room to work with.”

And that also severely hurts programs in leagues like the Atlantic 10 and the Mountain West because it inhibits their ability to get home-and-home situations with teams that boast a higher level of cachet.

With 20 league games in place, the metrics are set up for teams from the Power 5 conferences and the Big East to eat up the majority of the at-large bid each-and-every March.

“The Big Ten isn’t doing this to get six teams in the NCAA Tournament,” one Big Ten head coach said last week on the condition of anonymity. “They’re doing this to get programs like Penn State and Nebraska into the NCAA Tournament. Going to 20 league games will create more opportunities for teams that aren’t usually in contention. That’s the goal of this.”
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:33 PM
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http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...jnuscNKY7ucmN/

Neil Sullivan talking about the impact. 20 league schedule is on the table for the A10
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:27 PM
springborofan springborofan is offline
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I'm very concerned about the long term ramifications of this. I hate to say it, but it may be UD's interest to grab VCU ( and possibly St. Louis) and head to the American. If the A10 starts to become a 2 bid league, the margin of error becomes very small. Players sense it and avoid the A10 and a vicious cycle can begin.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I'm very concerned about the long term ramifications of this. I hate to say it, but it may be UD's interest to grab VCU ( and possibly St. Louis) and head to the American. If the A10 starts to become a 2 bid league, the margin of error becomes very small. Players sense it and avoid the A10 and a vicious cycle can begin.
What makes you think that the AAC would be intersted in a setup like that. We are not in the drivers seat on any type of realignment.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:33 PM
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I think the biggest short term ramification is that we won't see or have fewer ACC/Big 10 schools in exempt tourneys. Iowa was a marquee win for us two years in Orlando. So quality of team in these tourneys could drop off and look more like the Charleston Classic this year

The Big East and Big 12 are stuck at 10 teams so a 20 game schedule for them seems unlikely. That might open some opportunities for us. Likewise the American, Gonzaga, St. Marys, etc might get squeezed too


As to the American, if we and VCU continue on the track of being consistent NCAA teams over the next several years both programs would be attractive to them. Add Dayton/VCU and they clearly have the best non P5/Big East conference and suck up the A10's at large bids potentially. They and the Big East are gonna get squeezed by this too so the incentive might there to expand

If Dayton is on a run of 9 straight tourney appearances or 8/9 years then they are very attractive to the Big East/American. Gotta prove this isn't just Archie and it's a sustainable program
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think the biggest short term ramification is that we won't see or have fewer ACC/Big 10 schools in exempt tourneys. Iowa was a marquee win for us two years in Orlando. So quality of team in these tourneys could drop off and look more like the Charleston Classic this year

The Big East and Big 12 are stuck at 10 teams so a 20 game schedule for them seems unlikely. That might open some opportunities for us. Likewise the American, Gonzaga, St. Marys, etc might get squeezed too


As to the American, if we and VCU continue on the track of being consistent NCAA teams over the next several years both programs would be attractive to them. Add Dayton/VCU and they clearly have the best non P5/Big East conference and suck up the A10's at large bids potentially. They and the Big East are gonna get squeezed by this too so the incentive might there to expand

If Dayton is on a run of 9 straight tourney appearances or 8/9 years then they are very attractive to the Big East/American. Gotta prove this isn't just Archie and it's a sustainable program
My "Deep Throat" at Seton Hall tells me that since other conferences are going to 20 conference games, The Big East is exploring the idea of doing the same. However, since the BE is in love with the true Round Robin structure of its conference schedule, another team would have to be added, bringing the number of teams to 11. Two teams being discussed are UConn and UD. I honestly don't know how serious any discussion is nor do I know what UConn would do with its football team. UConn has spent a lot of money on football.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:15 PM
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I would think the Big East would be attractive to many UConn fans at first blush, it was their home for a long time, plus I'm sure there is a decent amount of indifference to their football program. However, the Big East of today isn't the Big East of the late 80s to early 90s when UConn grew from just "another program" into a top tier power basketball school. Syracuse is gone, Georgetown is no longer the monster it was in the mid 80s to early 90s, playing SJU in the Garden is nice for the Garden, but SJU hasn't been all that relevant in forever. They've added great programs in XU, Creighton and Butler, but I'm sure many of their fans just consider those more fodder from fly over country. Its a step up from the AAC, but its not a huge step up. It gives them a stronger foot hold on the east coast where I'm sure they draw an overwhelming majority of their student base from, but in terms of basketball its not significantly better that you'd give up the dream of power 5 football and the ACC or Big 10. If they give up on football now, they'll never see the likes of those conferences, even if their inclusion seems contingent on either the Big 12 breaking apart and Texas/Oklahoma making a move, or Notre Dame deciding to house their football program permanently in either the ACC or B10.

I don't know where expansion talks are headed or who is up for consideration, but I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows in the Big East when the AAC added Wichita St. If there is a desire to move to 11 teams and a 20 game round robin, they now realize that the AAC is willing to add non football schools to strengthen its basketball and any future expansion will likely involve teams that the Big East would consider as their 11th (or 12, 13th, etc..) team.
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:35 PM
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UConn has sunk way too much into football and still has a shot at a P5 if they ever expand again to go back to the Big East.

Every program outside the BCS leagues this century outside of the West Coast has had a chance to move up in conferences if they win consistently. Wichita State, Butler, VCU, Creighton, Xavier. Win like them and the problem
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