Golden Blow-out Boring Win at GW

[rollo]

Well, after watching that whatever-it-was blow-out, I guess it's comforting for GW to know that they aren't the only inept group of individuals in town.

Regardless, it was a nice win and effort, especially after the VCU whatever-it-was disappointment.

So it's time to vote for the Golden Player of the Game. Looking at the box score, there are potentially 4 or 5 players who could get the Award...but box scores are deceiving. In reality there are only 2 Flyers worthy of consideration, and none are named Brandon.

Vote away! But keep it on topic...somewhere out there is a moderator wearing a really tight pair of tighty-whiteys with their fingers on the keyboard just waiting to edit the Golden Poll!

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Camara 5 turnovers
Smith 4, a couple real stupid careless ones.

Gonna be tough to vote for either. TAKE CARE OF THE **** BALL!

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Hey, a win is a win!!
But, that many TOs vs St Louis and we lose.
Keep working on those UNFORCED TOs guys!!

Go Flyers!

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Flyerferd]

I was quite a fan of it being a boring game. I will take 23 point blowouts any day of the week. Camara was my pick.
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[Jeff]

It's a win.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Holmes was physical on the boards early and set the tone. He also had 3 assists and a couple blocked shots to earn my vote. Plus only 1 Turnover in 29 minutes.

[TommyGola]

I went with Camara. He pretty much ruled the paint.

[ud2]

What? No Let's Go Brandon option? The King caved!

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by TommyGola I went with Camara. He pretty much ruled the paint.

He's much better against inferior athletes.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 What? No Let's Go Brandon option? The King caved!

My Team won...no need to bring him into it.

[maddog07]

Turnover Camara? 5 more today, must be going for a record. I can’t vote for that.

Holmes always plays within himself. Alters shots, 6/8, doesn’t turn it over, 3 assists, 28 minutes. He may not look spectacular but he played great.,
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[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Turnover Camara? 5 more today, must be going for a record. I can’t vote for that. Holmes always plays within himself. Alters shots, 6/8, doesn’t turn it over, 3 assists, 28 minutes. He may not look spectacular but he played great., Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, either I am losing it or the Dog is coming around, as I agree 100% with this post (other than the going for the record slam)

[Alberto Strasse]

because his play is so important to this team reaching it's potential. The guy is a great offensive player who is learning the value of an assist to team play. Against the best teams
Malichi will need a blow especially since we press. Weaver needs to be that guy. I also liked
Elvis's 5 assists plus his trey shooting. Dayton has a better bench than most of the A-10 and the Flyers need to exploit it to have a successful conference season.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo My Team won...no need to bring him into it.

Brandon has infiltrated this board, he is controlling the advertising, he changed the spelling of his name to confuse us.

[Gazoo]

None of the above. It's AG for chewing the guys out and calling them out. Played with an energy we haven't seen in several games. You could tell guys were playing for blood today right from the start.

That was the effort we had against Kansas.

[CT Flyer]

Went with Malachi because, despite the turnovers, he again controlled the game.

Was encouraged by Camara as well and am coming to the conclusion that he is better as a lunch pail kind of guy instead of trying to feature him.

[T-Bone 84]

Went with Deuce. Didn’t see the whole game, but the part I did see featured him active in the paint, with some nice kick-outs for open shots for his teammates. That’s winning basketball.
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[Buster]

Question: Does Camera ever pass the ball once he gets it within 10 ft of the basket?

[Hyde Park Flyer]

While it’s regrettable that one dolt refuses to discuss basketball and instead airs political grievances, Rollo’s instructions are appreciated. As to basketball, I went with Holmes. It’s tough to pick 1 guy in a sloppy blowout win, but, man, I am so impressed by a freshman big who blocked a pass on one end and threw it down on the other. His combination of hustle, energy, and skill is tough to match. His influence on the game is special.
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[Chris R]

For every shot DaRon blocks, he alters or dissuades two or three others. He's real easy to root for. Good disposition, likeable personality, humble. Its obvious he never read his HS press clippings. He's a problem now, but he'll be an even bigger problem in two years once he puts on some beef. He still hits a wall at times against seasoned bigs, but for a frosh he's well ahead of schedule.

He wasn't scoring early, but still rebounding and passing to open players. He doesn't mind doing all the other stuff even when the offensive touches are sparse. I can't imagine a more low-maintenance player Grant could recruit.....and coaches drool over those kinds of guys. A reflection on his parents more than anything.

[frisco flyer]

I was encouraged by the way Zimi played today. He wasn’t in the game long but the couple of minutes he played he looked like his old self. It would be a big lift for the team if he is able to start playing quality minutes.

[Viperstick]

It was nice to put GW away, but good Lord we are a turnover machine.


Love Big Mou, but DO NOT PUT THE BALL ON THE FLOOR. Ever. Play like the 6'9" 240 lb enforcer you are.

[CvilleFlyer]

I voted for Holmes for his overall consistent game and only one turnover. There needs to be an end to double digit turnovers or we will be in for a long season. It will be hard to win games when 25% of the time you are turning it over!

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R For every shot DaRon blocks, he alters or dissuades two or three others. He's real easy to root for. Good disposition, likeable personality, humble. Its obvious he never read his HS press clippings. He's a problem now, but he'll be an even bigger problem in two years once he puts on some beef. He still hits a wall at times against seasoned bigs, but for a frosh he's well ahead of schedule. He wasn't scoring early, but still rebounding and passing to open players. He doesn't mind doing all the other stuff even when the offensive touches are sparse. I can't imagine a more low-maintenance player Grant could recruit.....and coaches drool over those kinds of guys. A reflection on his parents more than anything.

Just went through Deuce’s stats. His stats really do reflect his effort. He’s scored in double digits 10 of 15 games., and he’s only had 4 fouls in 2 games. He’s a big that does a great job of moving his feet. He’s a shot blocker who understands restraint. Obviously, he needs more size and strength. He needs to hit the boards better. He has to improve on free throws. BUT, think about how much better his is now than in his 2 point game against Lipscomb. We’re lucky to be a part of this ride.

Edit: He is currently 33rd in the country in blocked shots per game (24th in total blocks) and 4th among Freshmen.
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[jack72]

Originally Posted by Buster Question: Does Camera ever pass the ball once he gets it within 10 ft of the basket?

I thought he did today, but please explain what you are saying. No doubt about his turnover stats of 51, which is almost twice anyone else. However his assists are darn good. Smith has 69, Weaver has 28, and then Camera 26.

If you are saying when he gets close to the basket he needs to pass, because he turns it over. That is true, but his hands are so bad he struggles to pass, shoot or dribble at that point.

[steve]

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer I voted for Holmes for his overall consistent game and only one turnover. There needs to be an end to double digit turnovers or we will be in for a long season. It will be hard to win games when 25% of the time you are turning it over!

Double digit turnovers aren't an issue as in anywhere from 10 to 12 or 13 a game, especially for a young team, as every team has turnovers, but when you're getting closer to 20 a game which is what they seemingly **** near average , even a year ago with a senior back court, then that's the issue.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by steve Double digit turnovers aren't an issue as in anywhere from 10 to 12 or 13 a game, especially for a young team, as every team has turnovers, but when you're getting closer to 20 a game which is what they seemingly **** near average , even a year ago with a senior back court, then that's the issue.

They’re averaging 14.9 turnovers per game. That can be the difference in a 1 or 2 possession game.
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[TXFlyerFan]

Went with Camara despite the TOs. Would have gone with Holmes but he needs to finish better around the bucket, and he will when he packs on some beef. But Camara today played strong and it was appreciated.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Chris R For every shot DaRon blocks, he alters or dissuades two or three others. He's real easy to root for. Good disposition, likeable personality, humble. Its obvious he never read his HS press clippings. He's a problem now, but he'll be an even bigger problem in two years once he puts on some beef. He still hits a wall at times against seasoned bigs, but for a frosh he's well ahead of schedule. He wasn't scoring early, but still rebounding and passing to open players. He doesn't mind doing all the other stuff even when the offensive touches are sparse. I can't imagine a more low-maintenance player Grant could recruit.....and coaches drool over those kinds of guys. A reflection on his parents more than anything.

Have you noticed that Holmes SPRINTS down the court on every play? That's incredibly hard to do when you only get the pass 2 or 3 times a game. That has to seem like it's not worth the effort most games, and takes a special person to want to do it.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by jack72 I thought he did today, but please explain what you are saying. No doubt about his turnover stats of 51, which is almost twice anyone else. However his assists are darn good. Smith has 69, Weaver has 28, and then Camera 26. If you are saying when he gets close to the basket he needs to pass, because he turns it over. That is true, but his hands are so bad he struggles to pass, shoot or dribble at that point.

There were a couple times today where there was someone wide open and he simply wouldn't pass the ball. Not open as in kick it across court open, I mean open as in next-pass-around-the-horn open. There was once where Elvis was standing there begging for a layup and Camara just wouldn't do it. I find it hard to believe he didn't see him.

[NJFlyr71]

Went with Holmes.

Almost refuse to vote for a player with TO leadings stats (unless he plays exceptional during a game and I mean EXCEPTIONAL!)

According to ESPN stats we have T.C. at 3.4 TO per game followed by, M.S. and E.W.

Holmes is at 0.9 TO per game.

Maybe Figgee can place these TO stats into a listed presentation.

My definition for EXCEPTIONAL is above normal expectations.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Almost refuse to vote for a player with TO leadings stats (unless he plays exceptional during a game and I mean EXCEPTIONAL!) According to ESPN stats we have T.C. at 3.4 TO per game followed by, M.S. and E.W. Holmes is at 0.9 TO per game. Maybe Figgee can place these TO stats into a listed presentation.

Maybe? MAYBE???

Highest Turnover Per Game Average since 1976-77 season

       plyr        | year | games | turnovers | mins_per_gm | to_per_gm | per_gm_rank 
-------------------+------+-------+-----------+-------------+-----------+-------------
 Erv Giddings      | 1976 |    27 |       118 |       33.59 |      4.37 |           1
 Erv Giddings      | 1977 |    29 |       124 |       31.62 |      4.28 |           2
 Derrick Dukes     | 1991 |    30 |       110 |       29.00 |      3.67 |           3
 Roosevelt Chapman | 1983 |    32 |       117 |       37.66 |      3.66 |           4
 Kevin Conrad      | 1981 |    23 |        84 |       34.04 |      3.65 |           5
 Roosevelt Chapman | 1981 |    30 |       107 |       36.37 |      3.57 |           6
 Darnell Hoskins   | 1996 |    23 |        81 |       33.04 |      3.52 |           7
 Roosevelt Chapman | 1982 |    27 |        95 |       37.59 |      3.52 |           8
 Kevin Conrad      | 1980 |    29 |       101 |       31.38 |      3.48 |           9
 Toumani Camara    | 2021 |    15 |        51 |       26.53 |      3.40 |          10

(Number 11 is Rodney Chatman from last year - 12 games, 39 turnovers, 3.25 average)

Stats provided by Figstats

--Figgie

[Justin]

They are going to put some muscle on him in the off-season. He will be scary.

Originally Posted by maddog07 Turnover Camara? 5 more today, must be going for a record. I can’t vote for that. Holmes always plays within himself. Alters shots, 6/8, doesn’t turn it over, 3 assists, 28 minutes. He may not look spectacular but he played great., Posted via Mobile Device

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Maybe? MAYBE??? Highest Turnover Per Game Average since 1976-77 season plyr | year | games | turnovers | mins_per_gm | to_per_gm | per_gm_rank -------------------+------+-------+-----------+-------------+-----------+------------- Erv Giddings | 1976 | 27 | 118 | 33.59 | 4.37 | 1 Erv Giddings | 1977 | 29 | 124 | 31.62 | 4.28 | 2 Derrick Dukes | 1991 | 30 | 110 | 29.00 | 3.67 | 3 Roosevelt Chapman | 1983 | 32 | 117 | 37.66 | 3.66 | 4 Kevin Conrad | 1981 | 23 | 84 | 34.04 | 3.65 | 5 Roosevelt Chapman | 1981 | 30 | 107 | 36.37 | 3.57 | 6 Darnell Hoskins | 1996 | 23 | 81 | 33.04 | 3.52 | 7 Roosevelt Chapman | 1982 | 27 | 95 | 37.59 | 3.52 | 8 Kevin Conrad | 1980 | 29 | 101 | 31.38 | 3.48 | 9 Toumani Camara | 2021 | 15 | 51 | 26.53 | 3.40 | 10 (Number 11 is Rodney Chatman from last year - 12 games, 39 turnovers, 3.25 average) Stats provided by Figstats --Figgie

Making him #3 in TO/minute played.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Have you noticed that Holmes SPRINTS down the court on every play? That's incredibly hard to do when you only get the pass 2 or 3 times a game. That has to seem like it's not worth the effort most games, and takes a special person to want to do it.

That's called hustle. You don't have to have talent or ability to hustle, you just have to want to do it, be the first one up and down the court, you can get some easy cherry picking type baskets on offense that way. I won the Mr. Hustle award one year at Alter basketball camp! I was always beating everybody up and down the floor.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Maybe? MAYBE??? Highest Turnover Per Game Average since 1976-77 season plyr | year | games | turnovers | mins_per_gm | to_per_gm | per_gm_rank -------------------+------+-------+-----------+-------------+-----------+------------- Erv Giddings | 1976 | 27 | 118 | 33.59 | 4.37 | 1 Erv Giddings | 1977 | 29 | 124 | 31.62 | 4.28 | 2 Derrick Dukes | 1991 | 30 | 110 | 29.00 | 3.67 | 3 Roosevelt Chapman | 1983 | 32 | 117 | 37.66 | 3.66 | 4 Kevin Conrad | 1981 | 23 | 84 | 34.04 | 3.65 | 5 Roosevelt Chapman | 1981 | 30 | 107 | 36.37 | 3.57 | 6 Darnell Hoskins | 1996 | 23 | 81 | 33.04 | 3.52 | 7 Roosevelt Chapman | 1982 | 27 | 95 | 37.59 | 3.52 | 8 Kevin Conrad | 1980 | 29 | 101 | 31.38 | 3.48 | 9 Toumani Camara | 2021 | 15 | 51 | 26.53 | 3.40 | 10 (Number 11 is Rodney Chatman from last year - 12 games, 39 turnovers, 3.25 average) Stats provided by Figstats --Figgie

Wow, I never thought of Velvet as a turnover machine. I guess if we are going to hold it against Camara, I'm going to have to drop Velvet out of 1st place on my all-time favorite Flyer list.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 That's called hustle. You don't have to have talent or ability to hustle, you just have to want to do it, be the first one up and down the court, you can get some easy cherry picking type baskets on offense that way. I won the Mr. Hustle award one year at Alter basketball camp! I was always beating everybody up and down the floor.

Were you 6’10” when you won the Alter Camp Mr. Hustle crown?
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[longtimefan]

If Camara averages 23 points per game this season and 21.8 next season and leads us to the Elite Eight, I'll forgive the turnovers.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by longtimefan If Camara averages 23 points per game this season and 21.8 next season and leads us to the Elite Eight, I'll forgive the turnovers.

Different bar to hurdle. With Camara, it's one game, against GW, and his competition is Mali and DaRon. With Velvet, it's a whole career and his competition is Finkel, May, Donald Smith and Obi.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Wow, I never thought of Velvet as a turnover machine. I guess if we are going to hold it against Camara, I'm going to have to drop Velvet out of 1st place on my all-time favorite Flyer list.

Before you do, take note of Velvet’s MPG and the fact that he played the 3 in all of the years listed, so he was handling the ball a lot. He’s forever in my All-Time Flyer Starting 5.
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[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Before you do, take note of Velvet’s MPG and the fact that he played the 3 in all of the years listed, so he was handling the ball a lot. He’s forever in my All-Time Flyer Starting 5. Posted via Mobile Device

Okay, you convinced me to keep him as my all-time favorite. lol, trust me T, I was never going to drop him anyway Also, the officiating was so bad back then, half those turnovers probably were a result of him being mugged while the Rollos, umm, I mean Refs, swallowed their whistles.