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  #1  
Old 01-18-2021, 12:29 PM
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NET Rhyme and Reason, UDPride RPI?

After beating Davidson on the road we jumped about 25 spots in the NET rankings. After beating Duquesne at home we didn't move at all. Both of these outcomes make perfect sense to me.

Fast forward to this morning and we jump another 25 spots (roughly) after beating GW on the road. This one I do not understand. GW is about 100 spots lower than Davidson. Are road wins just valued very highly by the NET calculation, regardless of opponent quality?

Second topic, will the RPI page on this site be brought back to life? It ran all through last year and it was nice to see the comparison. It is, or was, probably the last place on the internet you could get an accurate RPI calculation. I really wish the Dance Card operated using the RPI as well because I think it would still present a pretty accurate picture. It would also be cool to see what teams likely would have made the cut using the RPI vs. who did make the cut using the NET. Alas, that site seems to be dead and I don't have inroads with the creators like I do with Chris
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
After beating Davidson on the road we jumped about 25 spots in the NET rankings. After beating Duquesne at home we didn't move at all. Both of these outcomes make perfect sense to me.

Fast forward to this morning and we jump another 25 spots (roughly) after beating GW on the road. This one I do not understand. GW is about 100 spots lower than Davidson. Are road wins just valued very highly by the NET calculation, regardless of opponent quality?

Second topic, will the RPI page on this site be brought back to life? It ran all through last year and it was nice to see the comparison. It is, or was, probably the last place on the internet you could get an accurate RPI calculation. I really wish the Dance Card operated using the RPI as well because I think it would still present a pretty accurate picture. It would also be cool to see what teams likely would have made the cut using the RPI vs. who did make the cut using the NET. Alas, that site seems to be dead and I don't have inroads with the creators like I do with Chris

Yes road games are valued a lot more (beating #25 at home is the same as #75 on the road) and score is a factor but it’s capped at 10 and OT games defaults to a one point win so we got the max from the GW win, but not the Davidson because it was basically a one point victory. Personally I hate that score is a factor.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2021, 01:41 PM
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We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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I'm not seeing any posts, let alone the "many" you reference, that suggest #106 in the NET is acceptable.

Just not everybody is willing to tar and feather the team and coach/staff at the first signs of adversity and challenge, such as yourself.

I pray for your soul and look forward to the day when you can have a reasonable banter and exchange with rest of us natives.
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2021, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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Why are we so low? Maybe because we lost to LaSalle and Fordham? And after LaSalle, we vented and made it clear that the loss was unacceptable. And after Fordham, we did the same threefold or more. So now what? Should we keep doing it each time our RPI comes out even though we haven't had another loss yet since?
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2021, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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From the thread on the women’s game cancellation due to positive COVID test in women’s program.

maddog07

Hope it doesn’t cross over to the Men’s program.


Why because if there weren’t any men’s games you wouldn’t have anything to b!tch about?
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2021, 04:28 PM
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I would think the value of home games vs road games should be adjusted due to covid. With no fans it is probably a little easier to win on the road and not quite as easy to win at home. It certainly is easier for teams to win at UD Arena with no (or few) fans.
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2021, 07:00 PM
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Weaver and Zimi have been good,
valuable additions... a game at a
time, we had an awful week but that
is behind us...

we are looking better now, still have
times of non activity/nonchalant,
but is does seem to be diminishing..

Go Flyers!
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2021, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
Weaver and Zimi have been good,
valuable additions... a game at a
time, we had an awful week but that
is behind us...

we are looking better now, still have
times of non activity/nonchalant,
but is does seem to be diminishing..

Go Flyers!
Yes, the offense seems to flow better for longer periods of time. But the underlying problems are still there. Just look at the last game. Ibi didn't do really much until slop time at the end. We went 5 or 6 minutes without scoring in the 2nd half, and we let a 10 point plus lead slip down to six. The bench has improved from giving maybe 2-4 points a game to 6-10. Amzil & weaver are great adds, and Zimi has good streaks.

But the future teams are better, much better than we've played to date in conference. I hope we continue to improve but the rate is going to have to accelerate or it will be a rocky road ahead.

Best case is we get hot for the conference tournament.
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2021, 09:21 AM
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We have not yet solved the offense problem. Jalen going for 20+ is only a partial solution. The way teams double on him, everybody, and especially Ibi and Amzil, have got to score more.
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
We have not yet solved the offense problem. Jalen going for 20+ is only a partial solution. The way teams double on him, everybody, and especially Ibi and Amzil, have got to score more.
Also we will live and die by the 3 ball.
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:38 AM
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I continue to think Crutcher is bored, and maybe Ibi too. It's hard to play for a #1 seed one year + watch Obi suit up for the Knicks and then come back and have a real fire in your belly for Fordham. The good part about that is that the guys will get fired up for the better teams, like they showed against Davidson (who is not great but good).
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I continue to think Crutcher is bored, and maybe Ibi too. It's hard to play for a #1 seed one year + watch Obi suit up for the Knicks and then come back and have a real fire in your belly for Fordham. The good part about that is that the guys will get fired up for the better teams, like they showed against Davidson (who is not great but good).
If making money after college isn't enough to get you fired up then I don't know what would be.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:01 AM
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Losing

to LaSalle and Fordham killed this season for the Flyers.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:09 AM
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Unhappy Yet another thread...

...derailed (see title)
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
If making money after college isn't enough to get you fired up then I don't know what would be.

If performing well against LaSalle and Fordham was how you make money after college I would agree with you.
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Old 01-19-2021, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
...derailed (see title)
I tried to be very specific but that obviously didn't help. I blame Maddog for immediately taking things a weird direction.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:43 PM
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in terms of NET rankings..

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
to LaSalle and Fordham killed this season for the Flyers.
no, not quite killed yet...

we rose 50 spots in NET rankings
with the 2 road wins. with GW
being postponed, that means 4
of the next 6 scheduled games are away..

this season is not killed,
just my opinion..

Go Flyers!
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:38 PM
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Unfortunately it was my father that faithfully and anonymously inputted game scores every night to run the RPI computation. At present my plate is full and I do not have time to commit to it. Its the kind of hobby only a retired Computer Science grad would have the time or interest to bother with.
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:57 PM
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:03 AM
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In this day and age where reason comes into this discussion I am left clueless!

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Old 01-20-2021, 10:06 AM
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However a bright spot for reason

Duke has finally dropped from the TOP 25 list.

How long did that take just in this season alone?

Must be nice to be a blue-blood.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I tried to be very specific but that obviously didn't help. I blame Maddog for immediately taking things a weird direction.
I'm good with that. Maddog should get blamed for a lot of stuff on this board.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I'm good with that. Maddog should get blamed for a lot of stuff on this board.
Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!

Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!

Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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No, but that's a straw man. The point of the thread was discussing how the NET is calculated, not how our bad losses have impacted our NET rating.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!

Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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What you think success looks like: a straight line, bottom left to upper right.


What success actually looks like: a squiggly line going up and down, back and forth, sometimes doubling back on itself, until it reaches the upper right.
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
What you think success looks like: a straight line, bottom left to upper right.


What success actually looks like: a squiggly line going up and down, back and forth, sometimes doubling back on itself, until it reaches the upper right.
I've gotten the impression that he thinks success looks like a straight line, but upper left to upper right. At least based on the way he dismisses freshman after a game or two.

I get the feeling that Maddog buys high in the stock market and sells the next day when it drops a little.

Last edited by Smitty10; 01-20-2021 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I've gotten the impression that he thinks success looks like a straight line, but upper left to upper right. At least based on the way he dismisses freshman after a game or two.

I get the feeling that Maddog buys high in the stock market and sells the next day when it drops a little.
And probably kicks his dog while doing it.
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Old 01-20-2021, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post

Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
Posted via Mobile Device
we certainly have struggled, but are
looking better now and the bench producing..

to say NCAA is "out of the question" is just
not correct at all... perhaps we won't,
we most likely won't.. there is always 1983

NC State, at 17-10 in the regular season,
8-6 in conference (52 teams in the NCAA)
may not of ever MADE the tournament
unless they won the ACC tournament...
which they did..

the Flyers very well may not make it... but
to say it is out of the question flies
in the face of history.. it can be done,
because it already has been done b4..

Go Flyers!
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Old 01-20-2021, 08:19 PM
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NCAA Appearances (Including forecast for this season) for the past five years. So, for all the "2020 would have been....x seed", including last year means 2 out of the past 5 years. That's the back of the basketball card right now. 40%.


2017 - 7 seed
2018 - out
2019 - out
2020 - no tournament
2021 - not likely

Please resume your debate on what is acceptable......
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Old 01-20-2021, 08:52 PM
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when Chatman went down,
others have had to contribute..
how stronger will we be when
he returns? don't know..

NCAA tourney? not likely is acceptable
"not a chance" is not acceptable..
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  #32  
Old 01-20-2021, 09:41 PM
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Kentucky is 4-9. Continue.
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Old 01-20-2021, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Kentucky is 4-9. Continue.
I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
You mean the "let us see how much money you have to give" eye test? Of course they will.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
NCAA Appearances (Including forecast for this season) for the past five years. So, for all the "2020 would have been....x seed", including last year means 2 out of the past 5 years. That's the back of the basketball card right now. 40%.


2017 - 7 seed
2018 - out
2019 - out
2020 - no tournament
2021 - not likely

Please resume your debate on what is acceptable......

I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2021, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
I simply used five years. I'm sure your argument be construed by someone else to look at the last 10, 15, 20, or 25 years. Looking at only last year would therefore be valid. You can decide if that is a better or worse argument.

I was only looking at it from the perspective of a potential recruit, which I believe is much shorter than 10 years.
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:00 AM
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you used five years incorrectly
by anyone's standards.. this year
is not determined, and to use this - count
this - as a non NCAA year is not accurate..

you do not count a year to be determined,
even if your last name is Nostradamus.
so, it is 2 of the last 4 years..
you can write 2 of the last
5 after this season when/if the Flyers do
not make the tournament..

so, that would make it 50%, not 40%

or, going with the last 5 years, meaning
what it says: the LAST 5 years, we made
it 3 of the last 5 years, or 60%
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  #38  
Old 01-22-2021, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
The NCAA might just open it up to all teams at that point. Then, they could pair teams any way they want, so that the 9th best team in the ACC plays the 9th best team in, say, the MAAC. It’s likely the ACC team would win that game, and then the false equivalencies could start (that the 9th best team in the ACC would beat ANY team in the MAAC).
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
The NCAA might just open it up to all teams at that point. Then, they could pair teams any way they want, so that the 9th best team in the ACC plays the 9th best team in, say, the MAAC. It’s likely the ACC team would win that game, and then the false equivalencies could start (that the 9th best team in the ACC would beat ANY team in the MAAC).
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that is a pretty good idea

Go Flyers!
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
when Chatman went down,
others have had to contribute..
how stronger will we be when
he returns? don't know..

NCAA tourney? not likely is acceptable
"not a chance" is not acceptable..

I retract the statement. I also recant my statement that I won’t win the powerball lottery- it is possible I will find the winning ticket while walking the beach today.
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
It's good but it's trending in the wrong direction. Missed opportunity in 2018-19 with an NCAA talented team and following the same script thus far in 2020-21. Hopefully, we can this season right because making the tournament is huge for the narrative of the program.
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
I retract the statement. I also recant my statement that I won’t win the powerball lottery- it is possible I will find the winning ticket while walking the beach today.
Posted via Mobile Device
Keep it real Maddog. The chances of you winning Powerball vs the chances of UD making the NCAA Tournament are astronomically different.

Your original statement was ridiculous and ignorant. And your parallel to winning Powerball is just as ridiculous.

Just calling a spade, a spade.

But as always, your insights and perspective are truly unique.
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
It's good but it's trending in the wrong direction. Missed opportunity in 2018-19 with an NCAA talented team and following the same script thus far in 2020-21. Hopefully, we can this season right because making the tournament is huge for the narrative of the program.
yep, agree... the wild card here
may be Chatman when he returns..
other players have begun stepping
up and contributing, this season is
still being written, we'll see..

Go Flyers
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
you used five years incorrectly
by anyone's standards.. this year
is not determined, and to use this - count
this - as a non NCAA year is not accurate..

you do not count a year to be determined,
even if your last name is Nostradamus.
so, it is 2 of the last 4 years..
you can write 2 of the last
5 after this season when/if the Flyers do
not make the tournament..

so, that would make it 50%, not 40%

or, going with the last 5 years, meaning
what it says: the LAST 5 years, we made
it 3 of the last 5 years, or 60%
Say what? I clearly stated the date range and conditions. You want to look at different ranges go ahead. Pretty sure anyone recruiting against us will count this year....in the end, I'm not sure 40% or 60% makes a difference. Neither scream "top tier".
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:32 AM
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you clearly stated
with clearly wrong data.. so we HAVE
to use different ranges, your range is
not correct..

you have made your point, we get
this year is tough... but it is not
done yet, the year is still being
written.
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Old 01-23-2021, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Keep it real Maddog. The chances of you winning Powerball vs the chances of UD making the NCAA Tournament are astronomically different.

Your original statement was ridiculous and ignorant. And your parallel to winning Powerball is just as ridiculous.

Just calling a spade, a spade.



But as always, your insights and perspective are truly unique.
Seems I’m getting closer to right.
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Old 01-23-2021, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Seems I’m getting closer to right.
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One of the ugliest days I've seen for the Flyers in a long, long time.

I've talked with Neil Sullivan and he's interested in hiring you as a team/program consultant. I forwarded him your credentials and mobile#.
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