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01-18-2021, 12:29 PM
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NET Rhyme and Reason, UDPride RPI?
After beating Davidson on the road we jumped about 25 spots in the NET rankings. After beating Duquesne at home we didn't move at all. Both of these outcomes make perfect sense to me.
Fast forward to this morning and we jump another 25 spots (roughly) after beating GW on the road. This one I do not understand. GW is about 100 spots lower than Davidson. Are road wins just valued very highly by the NET calculation, regardless of opponent quality?
Second topic, will the RPI page on this site be brought back to life? It ran all through last year and it was nice to see the comparison. It is, or was, probably the last place on the internet you could get an accurate RPI calculation. I really wish the Dance Card operated using the RPI as well because I think it would still present a pretty accurate picture. It would also be cool to see what teams likely would have made the cut using the RPI vs. who did make the cut using the NET. Alas, that site seems to be dead and I don't have inroads with the creators like I do with Chris
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01-18-2021, 01:33 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
After beating Davidson on the road we jumped about 25 spots in the NET rankings. After beating Duquesne at home we didn't move at all. Both of these outcomes make perfect sense to me.
Fast forward to this morning and we jump another 25 spots (roughly) after beating GW on the road. This one I do not understand. GW is about 100 spots lower than Davidson. Are road wins just valued very highly by the NET calculation, regardless of opponent quality?
Second topic, will the RPI page on this site be brought back to life? It ran all through last year and it was nice to see the comparison. It is, or was, probably the last place on the internet you could get an accurate RPI calculation. I really wish the Dance Card operated using the RPI as well because I think it would still present a pretty accurate picture. It would also be cool to see what teams likely would have made the cut using the RPI vs. who did make the cut using the NET. Alas, that site seems to be dead and I don't have inroads with the creators like I do with Chris
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Yes road games are valued a lot more (beating #25 at home is the same as #75 on the road) and score is a factor but it’s capped at 10 and OT games defaults to a one point win so we got the max from the GW win, but not the Davidson because it was basically a one point victory. Personally I hate that score is a factor.
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01-18-2021, 01:41 PM
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We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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01-18-2021, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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I'm not seeing any posts, let alone the "many" you reference, that suggest #106 in the NET is acceptable.
Just not everybody is willing to tar and feather the team and coach/staff at the first signs of adversity and challenge, such as yourself.
I pray for your soul and look forward to the day when you can have a reasonable banter and exchange with rest of us natives.
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01-18-2021, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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Why are we so low? Maybe because we lost to LaSalle and Fordham? And after LaSalle, we vented and made it clear that the loss was unacceptable. And after Fordham, we did the same threefold or more. So now what? Should we keep doing it each time our RPI comes out even though we haven't had another loss yet since?
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01-18-2021, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
We’re #106... whooooohoooo.!!! Sadly many think this is acceptable. Oh, forgot we have covid, injuries, no fans at the arena, etc., sorry, never mind.
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From the thread on the women’s game cancellation due to positive COVID test in women’s program.
maddog07
Hope it doesn’t cross over to the Men’s program.
Why because if there weren’t any men’s games you wouldn’t have anything to b!tch about?
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01-18-2021, 04:28 PM
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I would think the value of home games vs road games should be adjusted due to covid. With no fans it is probably a little easier to win on the road and not quite as easy to win at home. It certainly is easier for teams to win at UD Arena with no (or few) fans.
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01-18-2021, 07:00 PM
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Weaver and Zimi have been good,
valuable additions... a game at a
time, we had an awful week but that
is behind us...
we are looking better now, still have
times of non activity/nonchalant,
but is does seem to be diminishing..
Go Flyers!
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01-18-2021, 09:32 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by steverino015
Weaver and Zimi have been good,
valuable additions... a game at a
time, we had an awful week but that
is behind us...
we are looking better now, still have
times of non activity/nonchalant,
but is does seem to be diminishing..
Go Flyers!
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Yes, the offense seems to flow better for longer periods of time. But the underlying problems are still there. Just look at the last game. Ibi didn't do really much until slop time at the end. We went 5 or 6 minutes without scoring in the 2nd half, and we let a 10 point plus lead slip down to six. The bench has improved from giving maybe 2-4 points a game to 6-10. Amzil & weaver are great adds, and Zimi has good streaks.
But the future teams are better, much better than we've played to date in conference. I hope we continue to improve but the rate is going to have to accelerate or it will be a rocky road ahead.
Best case is we get hot for the conference tournament.
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01-19-2021, 09:21 AM
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We have not yet solved the offense problem. Jalen going for 20+ is only a partial solution. The way teams double on him, everybody, and especially Ibi and Amzil, have got to score more.
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01-19-2021, 09:35 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
We have not yet solved the offense problem. Jalen going for 20+ is only a partial solution. The way teams double on him, everybody, and especially Ibi and Amzil, have got to score more.
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Also we will live and die by the 3 ball.
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01-19-2021, 09:38 AM
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I continue to think Crutcher is bored, and maybe Ibi too. It's hard to play for a #1 seed one year + watch Obi suit up for the Knicks and then come back and have a real fire in your belly for Fordham. The good part about that is that the guys will get fired up for the better teams, like they showed against Davidson (who is not great but good).
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01-19-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I continue to think Crutcher is bored, and maybe Ibi too. It's hard to play for a #1 seed one year + watch Obi suit up for the Knicks and then come back and have a real fire in your belly for Fordham. The good part about that is that the guys will get fired up for the better teams, like they showed against Davidson (who is not great but good).
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If making money after college isn't enough to get you fired up then I don't know what would be.
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01-19-2021, 10:01 AM
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Losing
to LaSalle and Fordham killed this season for the Flyers.
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01-19-2021, 10:09 AM
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Major General
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Yet another thread...
...derailed (see title)
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01-19-2021, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
If making money after college isn't enough to get you fired up then I don't know what would be.
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If performing well against LaSalle and Fordham was how you make money after college I would agree with you.
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01-19-2021, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar
...derailed (see title)
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I tried to be very specific but that obviously didn't help. I blame Maddog for immediately taking things a weird direction.
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01-19-2021, 07:43 PM
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in terms of NET rankings..
Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
to LaSalle and Fordham killed this season for the Flyers.
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no, not quite killed yet...
we rose 50 spots in NET rankings
with the 2 road wins. with GW
being postponed, that means 4
of the next 6 scheduled games are away..
this season is not killed,
just my opinion..
Go Flyers!
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01-19-2021, 09:38 PM
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Unfortunately it was my father that faithfully and anonymously inputted game scores every night to run the RPI computation. At present my plate is full and I do not have time to commit to it. Its the kind of hobby only a retired Computer Science grad would have the time or interest to bother with.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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01-19-2021, 09:57 PM
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Figgie!!
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01-20-2021, 10:03 AM
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In this day and age where reason comes into this discussion I am left clueless!
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01-20-2021, 10:06 AM
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However a bright spot for reason
Duke has finally dropped from the TOP 25 list.
How long did that take just in this season alone?
Must be nice to be a blue-blood.
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01-20-2021, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
I tried to be very specific but that obviously didn't help. I blame Maddog for immediately taking things a weird direction.
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I'm good with that. Maddog should get blamed for a lot of stuff on this board.
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01-20-2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
I'm good with that. Maddog should get blamed for a lot of stuff on this board.
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Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!
Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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01-20-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!
Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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No, but that's a straw man. The point of the thread was discussing how the NET is calculated, not how our bad losses have impacted our NET rating.
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01-20-2021, 01:38 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Is it weird to aspire to more? To expect to actually capitalize our unparalleled advantages in terms of our resources and fan support compared to the rest of the conference? To want to not be the only team in captivity to lose to Fordham and LaSalle? To have players who can inbound the ball? Or not lead the league in shot clock violations? Or to be much better than #106!!!!
Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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What you think success looks like: a straight line, bottom left to upper right.
What success actually looks like: a squiggly line going up and down, back and forth, sometimes doubling back on itself, until it reaches the upper right.
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01-20-2021, 02:14 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
What you think success looks like: a straight line, bottom left to upper right.
What success actually looks like: a squiggly line going up and down, back and forth, sometimes doubling back on itself, until it reaches the upper right.
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I've gotten the impression that he thinks success looks like a straight line, but upper left to upper right. At least based on the way he dismisses freshman after a game or two.
I get the feeling that Maddog buys high in the stock market and sells the next day when it drops a little.
Last edited by Smitty10; 01-20-2021 at 02:18 PM..
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01-20-2021, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I've gotten the impression that he thinks success looks like a straight line, but upper left to upper right. At least based on the way he dismisses freshman after a game or two.
I get the feeling that Maddog buys high in the stock market and sells the next day when it drops a little.
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And probably kicks his dog while doing it.
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01-20-2021, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Or to expect to make the NCAA, which is certainly out of the question!!
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we certainly have struggled, but are
looking better now and the bench producing..
to say NCAA is "out of the question" is just
not correct at all... perhaps we won't,
we most likely won't.. there is always 1983
NC State, at 17-10 in the regular season,
8-6 in conference (52 teams in the NCAA)
may not of ever MADE the tournament
unless they won the ACC tournament...
which they did..
the Flyers very well may not make it... but
to say it is out of the question flies
in the face of history.. it can be done,
because it already has been done b4..
Go Flyers!
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01-20-2021, 08:19 PM
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NCAA Appearances (Including forecast for this season) for the past five years. So, for all the "2020 would have been....x seed", including last year means 2 out of the past 5 years. That's the back of the basketball card right now. 40%.
2017 - 7 seed
2018 - out
2019 - out
2020 - no tournament
2021 - not likely
Please resume your debate on what is acceptable......
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01-20-2021, 08:52 PM
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when Chatman went down,
others have had to contribute..
how stronger will we be when
he returns? don't know..
NCAA tourney? not likely is acceptable
"not a chance" is not acceptable..
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01-20-2021, 09:41 PM
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Kentucky is 4-9. Continue.
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01-20-2021, 09:56 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Kentucky is 4-9. Continue.
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I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
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01-20-2021, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man
I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
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You mean the "let us see how much money you have to give" eye test? Of course they will.
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01-20-2021, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff
NCAA Appearances (Including forecast for this season) for the past five years. So, for all the "2020 would have been....x seed", including last year means 2 out of the past 5 years. That's the back of the basketball card right now. 40%.
2017 - 7 seed
2018 - out
2019 - out
2020 - no tournament
2021 - not likely
Please resume your debate on what is acceptable......
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I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
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01-21-2021, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
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I simply used five years. I'm sure your argument be construed by someone else to look at the last 10, 15, 20, or 25 years. Looking at only last year would therefore be valid. You can decide if that is a better or worse argument.
I was only looking at it from the perspective of a potential recruit, which I believe is much shorter than 10 years.
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01-22-2021, 06:00 AM
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you used five years incorrectly
by anyone's standards.. this year
is not determined, and to use this - count
this - as a non NCAA year is not accurate..
you do not count a year to be determined,
even if your last name is Nostradamus.
so, it is 2 of the last 4 years..
you can write 2 of the last
5 after this season when/if the Flyers do
not make the tournament..
so, that would make it 50%, not 40%
or, going with the last 5 years, meaning
what it says: the LAST 5 years, we made
it 3 of the last 5 years, or 60%
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01-22-2021, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man
I wonder if they will pass the “eye test” come tournament time? Somehow, Duke was still projected to make the tournament before their last night’s loss to Pitt.
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The NCAA might just open it up to all teams at that point. Then, they could pair teams any way they want, so that the 9th best team in the ACC plays the 9th best team in, say, the MAAC. It’s likely the ACC team would win that game, and then the false equivalencies could start (that the 9th best team in the ACC would beat ANY team in the MAAC).
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01-22-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
The NCAA might just open it up to all teams at that point. Then, they could pair teams any way they want, so that the 9th best team in the ACC plays the 9th best team in, say, the MAAC. It’s likely the ACC team would win that game, and then the false equivalencies could start (that the 9th best team in the ACC would beat ANY team in the MAAC).
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that is a pretty good idea
Go Flyers!
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01-22-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015
when Chatman went down,
others have had to contribute..
how stronger will we be when
he returns? don't know..
NCAA tourney? not likely is acceptable
"not a chance" is not acceptable..
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I retract the statement. I also recant my statement that I won’t win the powerball lottery- it is possible I will find the winning ticket while walking the beach today.
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01-22-2021, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I don't know why you only went back to 2017. Counting last season as an appearance, we have made the NCAA Tournament 5 times in the last 7 years. That's pretty good. We have also won (or tied) the A-10 regular season 3 of the last 5 years.
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It's good but it's trending in the wrong direction. Missed opportunity in 2018-19 with an NCAA talented team and following the same script thus far in 2020-21. Hopefully, we can this season right because making the tournament is huge for the narrative of the program.
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01-22-2021, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
I retract the statement. I also recant my statement that I won’t win the powerball lottery- it is possible I will find the winning ticket while walking the beach today.
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Keep it real Maddog. The chances of you winning Powerball vs the chances of UD making the NCAA Tournament are astronomically different.
Your original statement was ridiculous and ignorant. And your parallel to winning Powerball is just as ridiculous.
Just calling a spade, a spade.
But as always, your insights and perspective are truly unique.
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Mad Props to SLUFLYER For This Totally Excellent Post:
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01-22-2021, 05:54 PM
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Brigadier General
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: greensboro, NC
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Originally Posted by bcross
It's good but it's trending in the wrong direction. Missed opportunity in 2018-19 with an NCAA talented team and following the same script thus far in 2020-21. Hopefully, we can this season right because making the tournament is huge for the narrative of the program.
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yep, agree... the wild card here
may be Chatman when he returns..
other players have begun stepping
up and contributing, this season is
still being written, we'll see..
Go Flyers
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01-22-2021, 11:25 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by steverino015
you used five years incorrectly
by anyone's standards.. this year
is not determined, and to use this - count
this - as a non NCAA year is not accurate..
you do not count a year to be determined,
even if your last name is Nostradamus.
so, it is 2 of the last 4 years..
you can write 2 of the last
5 after this season when/if the Flyers do
not make the tournament..
so, that would make it 50%, not 40%
or, going with the last 5 years, meaning
what it says: the LAST 5 years, we made
it 3 of the last 5 years, or 60%
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Say what? I clearly stated the date range and conditions. You want to look at different ranges go ahead. Pretty sure anyone recruiting against us will count this year....in the end, I'm not sure 40% or 60% makes a difference. Neither scream "top tier".
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Mad Props to Jeff For This Totally Excellent Post:
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01-23-2021, 02:32 AM
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Brigadier General
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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you clearly stated
with clearly wrong data.. so we HAVE
to use different ranges, your range is
not correct..
you have made your point, we get
this year is tough... but it is not
done yet, the year is still being
written.
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01-23-2021, 06:12 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Keep it real Maddog. The chances of you winning Powerball vs the chances of UD making the NCAA Tournament are astronomically different.
Your original statement was ridiculous and ignorant. And your parallel to winning Powerball is just as ridiculous.
Just calling a spade, a spade.
But as always, your insights and perspective are truly unique.
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Seems I’m getting closer to right.
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01-23-2021, 07:42 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Seems I’m getting closer to right.
Posted via Mobile Device
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One of the ugliest days I've seen for the Flyers in a long, long time.
I've talked with Neil Sullivan and he's interested in hiring you as a team/program consultant. I forwarded him your credentials and mobile#.
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Mad Props to SLUFLYER For This Totally Excellent Post:
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