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  #101  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:08 PM
IndianaFlyer IndianaFlyer is offline
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The person rooting the hardest for Miller to succeed is Fred Glass, the IU athletic director. Glass has been the athletic director for the past 10 years. He is not well liked by the fan base. The fans are restless over the lack of success of both the football program and the basketball program under Glass. Multi-millions have been poured into the football program to make it competitive in the B10, the results of which are multiple coaching changes and few conference wins under Glass. Basketball has fared little better in the eyes of the fans. If Miller is not "deep tourney run" successful in the next two years, Glass will not survive. If the big money boosters force a Glass firing, Miller will be gone as well. Both of their futures at IU are riding on two seasons, if not one season, of basketball.
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  #102  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:12 PM
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I suspect many schools and players go through these problems and we never hear about it. It has to tear some teams to pieces, especially if the coach is not adept at handling the soft side of basketball.

One thing Archie has done is to recruit five excellent kids from Indiana for this year and next. May not let him win more, but it satisfies a certain crowd.

Last edited by jack72; 08-13-2019 at 02:15 PM..
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  #103  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
One thing Archie has done is to recruit five excellent kids from Indiana for this year and next. May not let him win more, but it satisfies a certain crowd.
That looks to be correct, IU has the 2nd best BT roster if ranked by average stars per player.


Name Mascot Average Stars Official Site

Michigan State Spartans 3.741 msuspartans
Indiana Hoosiers 3.583 iuhoosiers
Ohio State Buckeyes 3.526 ohiostatebuckeyes
Maryland Terrapins 3.521 https://umterps
Purdue Boilermakers 3.462 purduesports
Michigan Wolverines 3.303 mgoblue
Iowa Hawkeyes 3.197 hawkeyesports
Illinois Fighting Illini 3.091 fightingillini
Northwestern Wildcats 3.030 nusports
Wisconsin Badgers 2.933 uwbadgers
Penn State Nittany Lions 2.852 gopsusports
Minnesota Golden Gophers 2.778 gophersports
Rutgers Scarlet Knights 2.694 scarletknights
Nebraska Cornhuskers 2.462 huskers
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  #104  
Old 07-14-2022, 03:29 PM
N2663R N2663R is offline
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A friend just sent me this excerpt of an article? Not sure of the source, but it is interesting though not surprising . . .

Glass made his vision for IU basketball very clear as he embarked on his coaching search, eventually choosing Dayton’s Archie Miller. Miller’s tenure was a four-year slog through mediocrity. The Hoosiers likely would have reached the NCAA Tournament at the end of the pandemic year, but otherwise, the team struggled badly while Miller never captured the imagination of the Hoosier faithful.

Glass (during a press conference after Crean’s departure): The expectations for Indiana University basketball are to perennially contend for and win multiple Big Ten championships, regularly go deep into the NCAA Tournament and win our next national championship — and more after that. We will identify and recruit a coach who will help us meet these expectations.

Hillman: I called Fred (Glass), we talked a few times, I told him, “This is an absolutely horrible hire.” He said he was sorry to hear me say that. I told him, “I’ll support you and the program, but I think it’s the wrong guy.” Archie never bought into one thing that Indiana was all about. Crean tried, to his credit. Archie, nope.

Evans: Archie was 100 percent the wrong hire. I tried to reach out to him, told him if he ever needs help in recruiting or needed any help, just tell us; got no reply.

Hillman: Archie was an even worse hire than Sampson.

Garrett: He didn’t have the love for that university. And I understand it; he’s not an IU guy.

Hillman: He was the flavor of the day. His (Dayton) team beats a couple of lower seeds to reach the Sweet 16 and suddenly he’s IU’s guy.

Evans: Being stoic on the court is one thing, but there was no warmth to him, none. He had me in town for some fantasy camp, and I was so blown away by the ****ty effort put forward by Archie and his staff. I was embarrassed. Honestly, embarrassed. These guys mailed it in and did nothing. For the guys who came to the camp and paid for this, it sucked. … They got nothing out of it.

Jeffries: It’s not just basketball when you coach at Indiana. … When IU is right, the coach is the face of the whole state; you’ve got to answer to the media, answer to the fans. I remember on Tuesdays, two, three times a month, Coach Knight used to drive up to Elkhart (Ind.) and have dinner at a Moose Lodge. Those kinds of things galvanized the state. He was a god. He was loved for doing those small things.

Evans: Archie wouldn’t address the people, he never took the mic, never told stories. I had guys asking me for Bob Knight stories. I’m telling you, Archie didn’t give a ****. I’m thinking, “Did you even unpack your ****?” Cuz he felt like a rental, didn’t he?

Hillman: I’ll never forget this, I took my daughter to a game in 2019. They’re playing Michigan and they fall behind 18-0. I would have yanked those five starters out there so fast, sit their ass on the bench and get guys out there who will give an effort. But he didn’t do anything. Nobody did anything. Maybe he felt like he can’t do that anymore because guys will get mad and leave.

Evans: At least Tom was engaged, and he was great at marketing. Archie was the opposite. Like he was a POW — we caught him in Dayton and threw him in the trunk of a car and brought him back to Bloomington.

Garrett: But I remember when I went back the night Coach Knight came back, all of us were back there on the practice court, and yeah, I know they had a big game against Purdue that day, but I felt it would have been important to get those players there early and take five, 10 minutes to see the guys you’re playing for. Sure, you’re playing for your family and yourselves, but there’s another family, the IU family; there were 50 of us there that night and he never came over and said anything to us. I saw that and thought, “He doesn’t get it.”
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  #105  
Old 07-14-2022, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
A friend just sent me this excerpt of an article? Not sure of the source, but it is interesting though not surprising . . .
That is a fair criticism. I watched some/all of his RI introductory presser, and Archie seemed to be buying into the school spirit, camaraderie, tradition, community, etc. thing.

Maybe somebody told him that he needs to do better in that area, and he is listening now.

But, of course, winning covers up a lot of sins. I doubt the IU people would be panning him now if he had won more.
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  #106  
Old 07-14-2022, 03:56 PM
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Maybe he found it hard to be excited about seeing his guys run out in those warm up pants?
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  #107  
Old 07-14-2022, 04:01 PM
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It's always easy to be the Monday Morning QB. If Archie had been successful, those same people quoted would be talking about how much they love Archie.
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  #108  
Old 07-14-2022, 04:07 PM
N2663R N2663R is offline
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That is a fair criticism. I watched some/all of his RI introductory presser, and Archie seemed to be buying into the school spirit, camaraderie, tradition, community, etc. thing.

Maybe somebody told him that he needs to do better in that area, and he is listening now.

But, of course, winning covers up a lot of sins. I doubt the IU people would be panning him now if he had won more.
I think it's an open secret that Archie hates the "press the flesh" part of coaching. He got a pass at UD because we are a smaller school in a smaller marker, who just wanted to move up a rung or two on the ladder. IU is a completely different beast. They want Bobby Knight 2.01 - period, not a gym rat. On the coaching side, AM seemed adept at taking a hungry 2 star guy and busting his hump into a 2.99 star guy. At IU, he couldn't take 3.5-4.0 star guys and make them into a team. His RI gig will be interesting to follow.
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  #109  
Old 07-14-2022, 04:55 PM
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I'm on record that I thought Archie would kill it at IU. Clearly I was wrong (unless you think I meant "killing it" meant killing the program ).


anyhoo, At UD, in the rare glimpses he put out to the public, he put forward the face that he embraced the university and the program, and I think it was genuine. However, the comments about how he failed to embrace the fans and "random encounters" was what I heard (and occasionally saw) while he was at UD. I remember my oldest son was warming up for a swim meet at DCC and Archie was sitting over in the corner bar. I'm not sure if his daughter was swimming that day as well or if he was just hanging out. When I say Archie looked miserable, I'm understating just how miserable he looked; I honestly felt bad for the dude and there was not a soul around him bugging him or trying to talk to him. My brother in law was up there for dinner with my father and ran into him. My brother in law lives out of town but follows the program so as he passed he reached out and said "Hey Archie, just wanted to say how much I love what you have done with the program, its been a ton of fun to watch the program grow". The simple and easy thing to do would be to smile, thank him and move along, my brother in law wasn't trying to tie him down to 20 questions, just an easy and quick congrats and move along. He said Archie gave him the coldest 'who are you and why are you even approaching me' gesture one could possibly give. He said it was super awkward.



I've heard several other stories along this regard, I think the dude is just wired a little different that maybe doesn't serve him well. Anyhoo, I wish him well at URI, he should fit in there better than he did at IU. I have no ill fillings toward the man.
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  #110  
Old 07-14-2022, 05:50 PM
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I agree Medford. No ill-will here, but I’ve heard his strong point is not public relations. He got away with not having to be too good at it while at UD. I remember someone posting he was going to have to be better at it when he took the IU job or it would be a problem. It turned out that was true. Now, if he had been better I think it would have bought him one more year. But in the end, you have to win. Ironic Covid cost UD so much and it cost Archie a lot since his team was going to make the NCAAs that year. His time at Rhode Island will be interesting. I wish him well because it will be good for the A20. But I think UD is so blessed to have Grant, so I’m glad IU came calling.
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  #111  
Old 07-14-2022, 05:58 PM
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The Athletic is the source of the quotes on Archie.
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  #112  
Old 07-14-2022, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I agree Medford. No ill-will here, but I’ve heard his strong point is not public relations. He got away with not having to be too good at it while at UD. I remember someone posting he was going to have to be better at it when he took the IU job or it would be a problem. It turned out that was true. Now, if he had been better I think it would have bought him one more year. But in the end, you have to win. Ironic Covid cost UD so much and it cost Archie a lot since his team was going to make the NCAAs that year. His time at Rhode Island will be interesting. I wish him well because it will be good for the A20. But I think UD is so blessed to have Grant, so I’m glad IU came calling.
Agree 100%, except I think A20 should be A020 just in case . . .
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  #113  
Old 07-15-2022, 09:11 AM
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I had lunch with Archie and Allen Griffin at Putnam Science Academy when they were recruiting Scoochie. Lunch lasted about an hour and Archie barely spoke while Griffin was very engaging and asked me many questions about my time at UD. Archie just doesn't have that engaging personality, nor does he seem to want to work on it. At some schools that will hinder his success, while at others it won't matter. Not sure how it will end up playing out URI. Being a small state and really one of only two legit D1 programs (Brown and Bryant being the others) they do have a pretty good following statewide and there are expectations for them to win regularly. Only time will tell, I guess.
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  #114  
Old 07-15-2022, 09:50 AM
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I crossed paths with Archie out and about several times. I experienced a guy that was not engaging and was usually off in corner as if trying to "hide" from the pressure of masses of people. Based on my couple experiences talking to him and silently watching interactions with others, he wasn't easy to talk to, and through my encounters and he did come across as rather rude or even conceited. I think he'd much prefer to not be bothered by all the face time.

I agree that as a coach, winning is the main thing that matters. Plenty of very successful coaches lack personality and they stay employed. Simply put, Archie wasn't winning, so a very active IU fan-base is just pouring on in any way they can.
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  #115  
Old 07-15-2022, 10:39 AM
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I'm not totally an engaging personality ....

But if you are as 'people challenged' as some have posted and written comments have been made in an article .... that does not work well no matter how big or small a school population is .. eventually you time is coming ... unless you win win win and administrators can cover for you.
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Old 07-15-2022, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I had lunch with Archie and Allen Griffin at Putnam Science Academy when they were recruiting Scoochie. Lunch lasted about an hour and Archie barely spoke while Griffin was very engaging and asked me many questions about my time at UD. Archie just doesn't have that engaging personality, nor does he seem to want to work on it. At some schools that will hinder his success, while at others it won't matter. Not sure how it will end up playing out URI. Being a small state and really one of only two legit D1 programs (Brown and Bryant being the others) they do have a pretty good following statewide and there are expectations for them to win regularly. Only time will tell, I guess.
I'm sure Providence College would like to have a conversation about D1 programs in RI.
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  #117  
Old 07-15-2022, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
I'm sure Providence College would like to have a conversation about D1 programs in RI.
They are one of the two legit D1 programs I was alluding to, with Bryant and Brown being the two also beens.
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  #118  
Old 07-15-2022, 02:44 PM
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Archie is an introvert. That introvert makes him uncomfortable in many situations.

Fans want bombastic over the top extrovert coaches. That was not Archie. Donoher is an introvert and that did not endear him to a number of fans. Donoher was not nearly as sour as Archie, so he was not criticized like Archie. Supposedly, both Donoher and Miller were very uncomfortable in recruiting.

Archie had a very good last four year run at UD. He had some breaks go his way, but you could argue about some breaks that did not go his way. St. Joe push off, miracle bank shots and more. Each coach has some of each.

I knew Archie a little. I could see the introvert in him, so it did not bother me like other fans. Archie would open up and talk basketball. When I and others asked questions, he was often very direct and very honest. Other coaches give the dance of an answer, platitudes or generalities.

And a little bias, Archie did something very nice for my wife and myself that was completely unexpected. So might give me a shade of bias.

Some management research shows that introverted managers are the minority in the management world but often much more effective than extroverts. I've seen that in work experience. We demean introverts but forget they are often better focused. However, basketball and football coaches have to satisfy the fans and alumni.

Archie was effective at UD and got away with being introverted. He failed big time at IU. Would have been interesting to see how IU would have reacted if had UD like success. Would they have tolerated his introverted personality?

I never saw Archie at IU. I wonder if he did not adapt his coaching style. At UD, he recruited players who had chips on their shoulders for not being recruited higher. he coached best when he had players like Kyle and Scoochie who felt slighted. You have to coach differently when you have all-star recruits. Just a thought.
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  #119  
Old 07-15-2022, 02:59 PM
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It’s true Donoher was an introvert, but he was never nearly as reclusive as Archie. He did much in and (mostly) out of the public eye that meant the world to fans. My own bias here, but I’m among those who had personal experience with Donoher’s gracious good deeds. Beyond that, he had UD in his blood as a former player and then coach, so he had/has an attachment to the school that Archie lacked. I also can attest that his dealings with the press were much more amicable than Archie’s. This isn’t meant to knock Archie, because he’s just cut from different cloth. I’ve always felt his best fit for a comfort zone would have been in his home town, either at Pitt or Duquesne. If you’ve ever watched Archie in an interview, he rarely makes eye contact with the questioner. He’s wired to coach, not to shmooze.
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  #120  
Old 07-15-2022, 03:05 PM
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Archie leaving UD - was the best thing at the right time. It allowed us to bring in Grant - and Grant has the program on a completely different level. Per personality - I met Archie a couple of times - Cold Fish - yup that is about the best description. He clearly was not a flyer. Grant I went to school with and have met a few times since he has been back - Archie and Grant could not be more polar opposites socially. I am soooooo glad IU took Archie off our hands and allowed us to bring in Coach Grant. Just 127 more days until some of us start landing in the Bahamas.
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  #121  
Old 07-15-2022, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Archie leaving UD - was the best thing at the right time. It allowed us to bring in Grant - and Grant has the program on a completely different level. Per personality - I met Archie a couple of times - Cold Fish - yup that is about the best description. He clearly was not a flyer. Grant I went to school with and have met a few times since he has been back - Archie and Grant could not be more polar opposites socially. I am soooooo glad IU took Archie off our hands and allowed us to bring in Coach Grant. Just 127 more days until some of us start landing in the Bahamas.
Yeah. Wait! What???

Look, I like the potential and the one great year that AG put together. But to state that Grant has the program on a completely different level is only true if you mean a lower level thus far. Hopefully that's about to change starting in November, and there's a great chance it will, but to state it as fact when it's just projection is a little ridiculous.

I do believe that Grant's ceiling here is much higher than Miller's. But if this team craps the bed in 2022-2023 and doesn't make it to the dance, and college basketball's new direction leaves UD behind, your post is going to look awfully foolish a few years from now.

See, I watched the Flyers play in 9 NCAA tournament games in AM's final 4 seasons. I've seen none since.

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  #122  
Old 07-15-2022, 07:10 PM
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Coaching and performance acumen notwithstanding, Gregory and Grant are the two guys that have made it easy for me to root for them and want to see them succeed. When BG was announced as HC at the GT press conference, it looked like someone had just shot his dog's head off -- through his glassed-over eyes you could see he already missed UD.

Goes without saying Anthony chugs the UD Kool-Aid like we do.
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  #123  
Old 07-18-2022, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah. Wait! What???

Look, I like the potential and the one great year that AG put together. But to state that Grant has the program on a completely different level is only true if you mean a lower level thus far. Hopefully that's about to change starting in November, and there's a great chance it will, but to state it as fact when it's just projection is a little ridiculous.

I do believe that Grant's ceiling here is much higher than Miller's. But if this team craps the bed in 2022-2023 and doesn't make it to the dance, and college basketball's new direction leaves UD behind, your post is going to look awfully foolish a few years from now.

See, I watched the Flyers play in 9 NCAA tournament games in AM's final 4 seasons. I've seen none since.
Yeah, not sure what "different level" the program is on now after 4 "rebuilding seasons" in 5 years. There's certainly a path to it being elevated, but we'll see this year if we're on it
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  #124  
Old 07-19-2022, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Yeah, not sure what "different level" the program is on now after 4 "rebuilding seasons" in 5 years. There's certainly a path to it being elevated, but we'll see this year if we're on it
Guessing he is talking about recruiting and potential. Remember when Archie told Dwayne Cohill that he was too "big time" for UD? That was Dwayne Cohill, you think Archie would have gotten Obi or Holmes, or Mike? I realize that Mike committed early but his stock has soared recently and in the age of transfer portals and NIL, I am guessing de-committing is not that big of a deal anymore.

2014 is something I will never forget but it was a magical run, not a result of elite talent. I take nothing away from those guys they earned it, they won the games and to date Grant's teams have not done anything approaching that.

However, but for the pandemic, AG had a #1 seed, the #3 ranking in the country, an undefeated conference regular season record, and two losses. One to the #1 team in the country in OT on a neutral floor and one to a ranked Colorado team on a neutral floor in OT. I wonder if Rodney Chatman still thinks flopping was the right play on that deciding possession?
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  #125  
Old 07-21-2022, 08:49 PM
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https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...KGZQKZMNN7JMU/
In this article about the Red Scare, it notes that all 7 of our players were Archie Miller recruits. All said they will root for Archie except when he plays Dayton. Here is a good quote from Bonsu:
“I’m going to root for him except when they play Dayton, and I hope they lose by 30,” Bonsu said. “I do hope the Dayton fans cheer him early and give him a standing ovation, and then afterwards, they can boo him and do whatever they want to do. I’m happy for him. I’m happy for his family. And those Rhode Island guys, they’re working. We know that.”
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  #126  
Old 07-21-2022, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
2014 is something I will never forget but it was a magical run, not a result of elite talent. I take nothing away from those guys they earned it, they won the games and to date Grant's teams have not done anything approaching that.

However, but for the pandemic, AG had a #1 seed, the #3 ranking in the country, an undefeated conference regular season record, and two losses. One to the #1 team in the country in OT on a neutral floor and one to a ranked Colorado team on a neutral floor in OT. I wonder if Rodney Chatman still thinks flopping was the right play on that deciding possession?
You contradict yourself. Grant's #3 ranking in the country is at least 'approaching' an Elite Eight run.
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  #127  
Old 07-21-2022, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
You contradict yourself. Grant's #3 ranking in the country is at least 'approaching' an Elite Eight run.
Yeah not sure how the best by far regular season perhaps ever but definitely in the last 50+ years is not on par with either elite 8 run. In both of the elite runs I had no expectation of the run let alone a possible National Championship like in 2019.

3 years removed from that we have on a paper another team with the talent to be on that same plane. A lot needs to be done yet but the potential is there.

I’m not in the camp of counting primarily tourney bids to determine bar height. The 4 straight was awesome but the Jr and Sr years were under achieving years in my book. Rare air for UD since the 60s is what AG has already brought us to in my way of thinking.

Not saying my way of thinking is the right way. Just saying it is just a easy to make the claim that AG has raised the program to new heights since he’s been here depending on your perspective and criteria.

Which would you prefer every 8 years if there are only 2 options

1 final four, 1 elite 8, 1-2 other NCAA bids, 1-2 NIT and 2 reloads OR
1 elite 8, 5-6 other NCAA, 1-2 NIT, 1 reload
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  #128  
Old 07-22-2022, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Yeah not sure how the best by far regular season perhaps ever but definitely in the last 50+ years is not on par with either elite 8 run. In both of the elite runs I had no expectation of the run let alone a possible National Championship.

3 years removed from that we have on a paper another team with the talent to be on that same plane. A lot needs to be done yet but the potential is there.

I’m not in the camp of counting first and foremost tourney bid to determine bar height. The 4 straight was awesome but the Jr and Sr years were under achieving years in my book. Rare air for UD since the 60s is what AG has already brought us to in my way of thinking.

Not saying my way of thinking is the right way. Just saying it is just a easy to make the claim that AG has raised the program to new heights since he’s been here depending on your perspective and criteria.

Which would you prefer every 8 years if there are only 2 options

1 final four, 1 elite 8, 1-2 other NCAA bids, 1-2 NIT and 2 reloads OR
1 elite 8, 5-6 other NCAA, 1-2 NIT, 1 reload
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As college basketball stands right now, the first one. One final four appearances got George Mason upgraded to another league. Who cares if they’ve done nothing since. One elite eight and one final four regardless of whatever else happens gets UD upgraded to the Big East when fox tells them we need more inventory or we don’t pay you as much. The Big East might be the conference that survives whatever shenanigans happen in division one moving forward. The Atlantic 10 will not be that conference.
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  #129  
Old 07-25-2022, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Yeah, not sure what "different level" the program is on now after 4 "rebuilding seasons" in 5 years. There's certainly a path to it being elevated, but we'll see this year if we're on it
Before Coach Grant we never had a season with an over 90% winning Percentage. Never had a national coach of the year. Never had a national player of the year. We never had a top 50 recruit. Never had a season that we sold out every home game.

So yeah it is that different level I am talking about.

PS - And with all that said - we are not worried about someone poaching out coach. We have the absolutely best coach we possibly could want right now - we are about to enter a five to 10 year window of conference realignment - and having a steady long term - WINNING coach running the program will make us even more attractive to a top tied Conference.

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  #130  
Old 07-25-2022, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Before Coach Grant we never had a season with an over 90% winning Percentage. Never had a national coach of the year. Never had a national player of the year. We never had a top 50 recruit. Never had a season that we sold out every home game.

So yeah it is that different level I am talking about.

PS - And with all that said - we are not worried about someone poaching out coach. We have the absolutely best coach we possibly could want right now - we are about to enter a five to 10 year window of conference realignment - and having a steady long term - WINNING coach running the program will make us even more attractive to a top tied Conference.
WOW! You just took a man who took over a team with 4 straight NCAA appearances, has zero in the 4 non-covid seasons, and moved him past Blackburn and Donoher as well as Miller in UD's all time list all because of one great season out of 5 and a current sophomore player.

Again, all you're doing is making a prediction, because all that you listed means nothing without consistently great seasons.

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  #131  
Old 07-25-2022, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
WOW! You just took a man who took over a team with 4 straight NCAA appearances, has zero in the 4 non-covid seasons, and moved him past Blackburn and Donoher as well as Miller in UD's all time list all because of one great season out of 5 and a current sophomore player.

Again, all you're doing is making a prediction, because all that you listed means nothing without consistently great seasons.
Not saying he is better than Blackburn or Donoher - just that compared to Archie - the program today is at different level - especially in the eyes of recruits.

Yes - Archie had a nice run of Tournament appearances and the Elite 8 run was great. But that loss to Syracuse - was devastating. Clear path to Final 4 that year.

By the end of the season I believe this argument will be moot. This is going to be another special year.
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  #132  
Old 07-25-2022, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Not saying he is better than Blackburn or Donoher - just that compared to Archie - the program today is at different level - especially in the eyes of recruits.

Yes - Archie had a nice run of Tournament appearances and the Elite 8 run was great. But that loss to Syracuse - was devastating. Clear path to Final 4 that year.

By the end of the season I believe this argument will be moot. This is going to be another special year.
I, like you, think that this season is going to be the defining one in CAG's Dayton coaching career. And the potential for great things are there. But it's certainly not a lock and as I said earlier, if this team doesn't get to and make lots of noise in the big dance, AM's system of putting together lots of good to very good players will still be ahead of AG's system of getting a couple great players with a supporting cast.

Also, not sure why you felt that 2015-2016 team had a clear path to the final four. Our best player had to miss half a season under suspension which I truly believe caused a problem with actual team basketball performance even after he returned. Cooke replaced Sibert and if you didn't know then, you should know now that was a big step backwards. We had 5 Freshman as depth and the only one who really made a difference come tournament time, couldn't play more than 10 minutes without fouling out. And of course moving forward, that freshman, Big Steve, was supposed to be a big part of the next wave Flyers successful seasons before tragedy struck.

When they got beat by Syracuse, I wasn't surprised. They just weren't a very fluid team for the above reasons and Syracuse also had the revenge factor going for it.

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  #133  
Old 07-25-2022, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post

Also, not sure why you felt that 2015-2016 team had a clear path to the final four. Our best player had to miss half a season under suspension which I truly believe caused a problem with actual team basketball performance even after he returned. Cooke replaced Sibert and if you didn't know then, you should know now that was a big step backwards. We had 5 Freshman as depth and the only one who really made a difference come tournament time, couldn't play more than 10 minutes without fouling out. And of course moving forward, that freshman, Big Steve, was supposed to be a big part of the next wave Flyers successful seasons before tragedy struck.

When they got beat by Syracuse, I wasn't surprised. They just weren't a very fluid team for the above reasons and Syracuse also had the revenge factor going for it.
After Syracuse beat us - they faced #15 seed Mid Tenn, #11 seed Gonzaga, and then #1 Seed Virginia - ok - so maybe #1 seed Virginia was not the best. But still it was a much better path to the Elite 8 then we could have hoped for.
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  #134  
Old 07-25-2022, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
After Syracuse beat us - they faced #15 seed Mid Tenn, #11 seed Gonzaga, and then #1 Seed Virginia - ok - so maybe #1 seed Virginia was not the best. But still it was a much better path to the Elite 8 then we could have hoped for.
Yes, a nice path. But only one of Dayton or Syracuse was going to get that path. Dayton wasn't good enough. The team that beat the Boeheim zone in 2014 had to have everything go right to eek out that 2 point win. That was a special team with special players and probably the deepest bench the Flyers had ever had. Boeheim is a pretty smart coach and I'm sure he made sure that some of the things that made the Flyers successful against him in 2014 wasn't going to be repeated in 2016. Kavanaugh was a true center that reached his stride come NCAA tournament time and Scott was good off the bench to give him a rest. The only true center we had on the 2016 team was Big Steve but he was very raw and very foul prone. That's a huge difference against that zone.

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