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  #101  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Which is why we should be glad we have an athletic program that is above board, or hope so.
Dude if cheating got us a Scoochie Smith, KP, Charles Cooke, etc - then we absolutely SUCK at cheating .

I loved that team, but those aren't guys you pay to play for your team.
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  #102  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Not sure why IU fans should be nervous. If Archie is involved WE are the ones that need to be nervous. Look at Calipari - He has gotten into trouble twice. In both cases he left those problems behind him. UMass and Memphis suffered the consequences while he moved on.

If Archie is involved - it will be on us, not IU.
If AM had landed recruits at Dayton that made you scratch your head wondering how, then I'd more inclined to be concerned at this point. Archie was telling recruits they were too good to play at UD, so I doubt we have much to worry about.

Although, having said that, I'm even more glad he's gone now that we know his brother is as crooked as they come. Archie did spend two seasons as an assistant at Arizona, and his Wiki page says he "shined as a top recruiter" there. Who knows what he knows about what went on there recruiting wise, or even if he was involved.
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  #103  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:28 PM
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Plus AM and SM are both Calipari protoges...enough said.
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  #104  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
I think the solution will be clauses inserted in their contracts nullifying all guarantees in the event of recruiting violations etc. Mike Greenberg used to talk about this subject on mike and mike regarding the student athletes and I loved his opinion. He said put a stipulation in the scholarship contracts that if they are found to have taken any money or other illegal benefits as stated by the NCAA, that they will then be responsible for paying back tuition fees in full. This was in reference to the Reggie bush situation at USC where he gets away with no consequences and leaves the school taking the fall. This system would atleast hit the parties responsible and not the current students who had nothing to do with it. Itís completely unrealistic and never going to happen but I always liked his take on it.
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I'll take solutions that sounds good on paper for $100, Alex.

That will accomplish absolutely nothing. If you've got parents with money, you're not going to accept the cash to play. If your family has no money, and you get $100K to play, you're going to spend it. All of it. Nothing left. So the big evil school who had no institutional control is left to send poor, underprivileged Jimmy to a collection agent and further ruin the family's already poor credit. Meanwhile the $500M endowment sends letters asking for more contributions.

Yeah, that'll play well in USAToday and Dateline.
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  #105  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
The resolution about paying players would not necessarily cause the issue to go away ...

here's why:

Say besides the free tuition, room board, etc each player gets OH say $10,000 a year ....

shoe or clothing company/ sports agents are just going to up their offer to ADD to the $10k. SO you still have the issue going on. Besides NOT all players are getting these sweet deals now only those with some potential NBA or NFL skills.

Another aspect of this is these kids were given money/perks before college. Tell me the agents will stop that since the player will get a small stipend IN school. How about the family? They benefited too. Nobody is going to want to give all that up.

No I think paying players IN school will not be the solution. Would it benefit the player who does not get the agents attention ... absolutely. Will the best players (and their families) still get some pre school cashola ... absolutely!!!

Anyways what better time for some of these details to come out as we face the closure of a frustrating, disappointing, sad BB season .....

Something interesting to keep our collective mind off of the reality of it all.
Multi-billionaire CEO's get busted for stealing all the time. I boggles the imagination that someone thinks that if we give these kids $10K in play money they will cease to be tempted by an additional $10K from a shoe company. Of course they will. Human nature.
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  #106  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:00 PM
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Odd to think about NCAA basketball next season without all of these blue bloods. I know they will never hit them all with tournament bands at the same time, but talk about a wide open tournament!
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  #107  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:01 PM
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IU should be nervous because if Sean was doing this between 2009-2011 when he was an assistant and he knew (hard to believe brothers would not talk about it), Archie is in trouble with the NCAA. Nothing will happen to IU, but they could lose their coach. Same with Xavier. Mack was an assistant for Miller at Xavier. If Sead did the same stuff at Xavier and Mack knew about it, he is in NCAA trouble too.

Again, pure speculation but anyone including Dayton that has any association with the Millers has to be a tad nervous.

Will be interesting to see if Xavier proactively investigates the Miller tenure at Xavier. Had both Sean Miller and Book Richardson there at the same tine. If tney don't do an investigation, they don't want to know ....
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  #108  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:35 PM
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And Dayton might want to talk to some former players too. Iíd rather learn bad news this way than read it in a news report or FBI news conference.
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  #109  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Multi-billionaire CEO's get busted for stealing all the time. I boggles the imagination that someone thinks that if we give these kids $10K in play money they will cease to be tempted by an additional $10K from a shoe company. Of course they will. Human nature.
Do they really? What about: "The financial crisis of 2007Ė2008"

How many received any punishment at all...? Too big to fail & too big to punish.
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  #110  
Old 02-24-2018, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I'll take solutions that sounds good on paper for $100, Alex.

That will accomplish absolutely nothing. If you've got parents with money, you're not going to accept the cash to play. If your family has no money, and you get $100K to play, you're going to spend it. All of it. Nothing left. So the big evil school who had no institutional control is left to send poor, underprivileged Jimmy to a collection agent and further ruin the family's already poor credit. Meanwhile the $500M endowment sends letters asking for more contributions.

Yeah, that'll play well in USAToday and Dateline.
So regular students are subject to his but athletes are above it? Now youíre the one setting the double standard. Plenty of parents have been ruined by their underachieving children but that doesnít mean athletes should be expempt.
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  #111  
Old 02-24-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Which is why we should be glad we have an athletic program that is above board, or hope so.
Maybe that is why Archie left. Assumed he couldn't win championships if they, the administration, expected him to act above board.
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  #112  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
NCAA investigation, yes. But not if itís the FBI calling.
One leads to the other. NCAA just took Louisville's championship banner away because of this same FBI investigation.

NCAA can, and will, take action based on the FBI investigation.
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  #113  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:19 PM
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I think that it was just leaked on twitter that Sean Miller will not coach Arizona's game tonight. Coming from Jeff Goodman and Greg Hansen.
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  #114  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I think that it was just leaked on twitter that Sean Miller will not coach Arizona's game tonight. Coming from Jeff Goodman and Greg Hansen.
Yep, just saw this on ESPN ticker.
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  #115  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
Do they really? What about: "The financial crisis of 2007Ė2008"

How many received any punishment at all...? Too big to fail & too big to punish.
Sure, point me to the CEO's who stole money please and I'll Google up the story for you.

(HINT: you should be Googling "Standard and Poor's" and "Moody's" for your answer, as well as "Congress red lining.")

Send me a PM if you think CEO's were to blame.
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  #116  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
One leads to the other. NCAA just took Louisville's championship banner away because of this same FBI investigation.

NCAA can, and will, take action based on the FBI investigation.
Pretty sure the "Escort Scandal" caused the stripping of 120 or so wins and the championship...
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  #117  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
So regular students are subject to his but athletes are above it? Now youíre the one setting the double standard. Plenty of parents have been ruined by their underachieving children but that doesnít mean athletes should be expempt.
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As I said, solutions that sound good but accomplish nothing. GO FOR IT.

1) The chemistry department doesn't have a multi-billion dollar hype machine running 24 hour a day stories, including "where are they now" segments. Don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

2) There is a pre-existing bias toward the athlete as being taken advantage of by the multi-billion dollar college sports complex. You will lose in the court of public opinion. No such bias exists for the engineering department.

3) Regular students are not national celebrities with a limited shelf-life. College athletes = 4 years, maybe 5, and MAYBE 6 if you're Mormon. There's no "4 in 5" rule for the chemistry department. You will lose in the court of public opinion.

4) An incredibly disproportionate percentage of men's college BB and FB players come from a highly underprivileged background. You'll get nothing most of the time except bad press from the local paper (but no actual recovered $$), but again, go for it.

ESPN and the local paper will just print that "former North Carolina player Jimmy Jones, who accepted $10K from an agent, is currently back at home in Baton Rouge living with his mother. His father, who abandoned the family when Jimmy was 2, is not in the picture. We spoke to him from the 1-room house on the bayou where he told us that he can't afford a lawyer on his mother's $400 per month disability check, and he can't afford to pay back the $120K the university is suing him for. He claims he only accepted the $10K so he could travel back to his sister's funeral when he was a freshman. The ACLU, the UNCF, and Al Sharpton have taken up the cause."
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  #118  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
Pretty sure the "Escort Scandal" caused the stripping of 120 or so wins and the championship...
Ah yes, i think you're right. Was thinking about the Adidas/Louisville stuff.

Regardless, If Arizona payed $100,000 to a recruit, the NCAA will take action. Same goes, on a smaller scale, for other schools/infractions. FBI Investigation will lead to NCAA actions as well.
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  #119  
Old 02-24-2018, 04:20 PM
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Shaq ONeills son decommiitted to AZ. Their other 2018 recruit is having a family meeting tonight to decide what he will do. AZ will have no 2018 recruits if both open their recruiting.
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  #120  
Old 02-24-2018, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
I think the solution will be clauses inserted in their contracts nullifying all guarantees in the event of recruiting violations etc. Mike Greenberg used to talk about this subject on mike and mike regarding the student athletes and I loved his opinion. He said put a stipulation in the scholarship contracts that if they are found to have taken any money or other illegal benefits as stated by the NCAA, that they will then be responsible for paying back tuition fees in full. This was in reference to the Reggie bush situation at USC where he gets away with no consequences and leaves the school taking the fall. This system would atleast hit the parties responsible and not the current students who had nothing to do with it. Itís completely unrealistic and never going to happen but I always liked his take on it.
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This is a lot closer to the right answer than any of have heard. Listening to some of the talking heads and they don't get it.

This is supposed to be college athletics. I don't have a problem with the small stipend. If players want to make money, go pro. NBA, MLB, NHL or NFL rules are not college athletics problems. If a player does't like it, sue the majors. Some guy from SI was saying give the college basketball players the right to hire agents like they do in baseball and hockey. Those are very different situation. College baseball and hockey does not get the exposure or money that basketball does. I don't think many (if any) schools, apparel companies, agents or any others will pay much to see a player in baseball or hockey go to one school or another. Someone said those agents don't care what school the basketball player ends up at. BS. The value of someone going to Duke or Kentucky or the other major programs ends up being higher because of all the exposure those programs get. Also, don't compare the basketball player to the regular student and their right to go out and make money during school. The regular student is not get the value of all the coaching, facilities, meals and all the other perks that go with playing major college basketball,

I don't know how may players are getting these payment but it can't be many. No need to change all the rules to accommodate a few.
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  #121  
Old 02-24-2018, 04:26 PM
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Sean is in trouble because of D.Ayton. ironic.

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  #122  
Old 02-24-2018, 04:39 PM
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I think itís D. Ayton... but I get your reference/point. Twitter is saying Ayton is playing tonight. My 2 cents on that is they havenít had time to investigate if the player took $$$ so he plays. AZ might also see the writing on the wall and are letting him play so the other players can win the PAC 12 before they have to vacate all wins. I think the school knows their coach and program is toast so what the heck...let the innocent players have their moment. Who knows?? Iím just surprised Ayton isnít sitting tonight.
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  #123  
Old 02-24-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I think itís D. Ayton... but I get your reference/point. Twitter is saying Ayton is playing tonight. My 2 cents on that is they havenít had time to investigate if the player took $$$ so he plays. AZ might also see the writing on the wall and are letting him play so the other players can win the PAC 12 before they have to vacate all wins. I think the school knows their coach and program is toast so what the heck...let the innocent players have their moment. Who knows?? Iím just surprised Ayton isnít sitting tonight.
I think they're gonna have to vacate those wins anyways so might as well keep the memories
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  #124  
Old 02-24-2018, 05:12 PM
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  #125  
Old 02-24-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Maybe that is why Archie left. Assumed he couldn't win championships if they, the administration, expected him to act above board.
To lend additional support to your comment, UDGutter2, this seems to shed light on Archie's notion that "this or that recruit was too good to come to Dayton." In other words, why choose Dayton when you could choose a team that was willing, either directly or indirectly, to pay you for playing?
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  #126  
Old 02-24-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
To lend additional support to your comment, UDGutter2, this seems to shed light on Archie's notion that "this or that recruit was too good to come to Dayton." In other words, why choose Dayton when you could choose a team that was willing, either directly or indirectly, to pay you for playing?
Cohill was recruited by several schools mentioned in this
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:46 PM
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Sean agreed to not coach tonight. I think he already coached his last game.
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  #128  
Old 02-24-2018, 05:48 PM
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the coaching carousel getting wild this year could be a big plus for spring recruiting
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  #129  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I think itís D. Ayton... but I get your reference/point. Twitter is saying Ayton is playing tonight. My 2 cents on that is they havenít had time to investigate if the player took $$$ so he plays. AZ might also see the writing on the wall and are letting him play so the other players can win the PAC 12 before they have to vacate all wins. I think the school knows their coach and program is toast so what the heck...let the innocent players have their moment. Who knows?? Iím just surprised Ayton isnít sitting tonight.
Just realized I was the victim of auto-incorrect.
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  #130  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:10 PM
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Good thing we have a coach that wants to be here.
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  #131  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:21 PM
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Remember when a bunch of us on the board hoped we could recruit D. Ayton to Dayton? The joke would have been on us.
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  #132  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I think itís D. Ayton... but I get your reference/point. Twitter is saying Ayton is playing tonight. My 2 cents on that is they havenít had time to investigate if the player took $$$ so he plays. AZ might also see the writing on the wall and are letting him play so the other players can win the PAC 12 before they have to vacate all wins. I think the school knows their coach and program is toast so what the heck...let the innocent players have their moment. Who knows?? Iím just surprised Ayton isnít sitting tonight.
MSU says they've already cleared their guy with the NCAA. How is that possible?
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  #133  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
To lend additional support to your comment, UDGutter2, this seems to shed light on Archie's notion that "this or that recruit was too good to come to Dayton." In other words, why choose Dayton when you could choose a team that was willing, either directly or indirectly, to pay you for playing?
Iím sorry but Archie is super competitive. I canít ever picture him telling a recruit that he is better somewhere else. Does not fit his personality.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
MSU says they've already cleared their guy with the NCAA. How is that possible?
doesn't make sense to me
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  #135  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
MSU says they've already cleared their guy with the NCAA. How is that possible?
They also had a doctor on staff that sexually abused hundreds of girls.
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  #136  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:29 PM
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The ripple effect will be more than just coaches.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...amid-fbi-probe
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  #137  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:41 PM
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The report that ESPN released Friday is so specific itís hard to believe itís not true. But, I keep thinking, ďWhat if itís not true?Ē Itís not like we have never heard the term fake news or the possibility the Russians are putting out false news reports. So whatís worse...S Miller really did have conversations with an agent about $100k for Ayton or ESPN got it wrong from unnamed sources?
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  #138  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
The report that ESPN released Friday is so specific itís hard to believe itís not true. But, I keep thinking, ďWhat if itís not true?Ē Itís not like we have never heard the term fake news or the possibility the Russians are putting out false news reports. So whatís worse...S Miller really did have conversations with an agent about $100k for Ayton or ESPN got it wrong from unnamed sources?
But if Sean absolutely insists he did not have that conversation I would think he would be coaching tonight.
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  #139  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
The report that ESPN released Friday is so specific itís hard to believe itís not true. But, I keep thinking, ďWhat if itís not true?Ē Itís not like we have never heard the term fake news or the possibility the Russians are putting out false news reports. So whatís worse...S Miller really did have conversations with an agent about $100k for Ayton or ESPN got it wrong from unnamed sources?
I would think if ESPN got that wrong it would open them up to a lawsuit
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  #140  
Old 02-24-2018, 10:03 PM
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Maybe X will have to forfeit games. Maybe we broke the Jimmy Carter curse and we didn't even know it.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Maybe X will have to forfeit games. Maybe we broke the Jimmy Carter curse and we didn't even know it.
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Dayton, Undefeated in the Cintas Center
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  #142  
Old 02-24-2018, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
The report that ESPN released Friday is so specific itís hard to believe itís not true. But, I keep thinking, ďWhat if itís not true?Ē Itís not like we have never heard the term fake news or the possibility the Russians are putting out false news reports. So whatís worse...S Miller really did have conversations with an agent about $100k for Ayton or ESPN got it wrong from unnamed sources?

Well, apparently Sean has issued a statement saying he is confident heíll be vindicated, but I wonder if thatís kind of like Archieís statement that heíll be in Dayton as long as Dayton wants him?

I guess weíll find out...
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  #143  
Old 02-24-2018, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
To lend additional support to your comment, UDGutter2, this seems to shed light on Archie's notion that "this or that recruit was too good to come to Dayton." In other words, why choose Dayton when you could choose a team that was willing, either directly or indirectly, to pay you for playing?
Have had that suspicion as all of this started getting traction in the past few days. Not saying itís fact. Just saying that, as more and more facts and evidence are presented, you have to wonder if Archie gave up on some recruits because he assumed UD wouldnít pay the price to get them. And, perhaps, his move to a P5 school like IU was a signal that he was tired of ďplaying by the rulesĒ, because thatís not how championships are won (apparently)? Just saying, there are now at least a few seeds of doubt and suspicion.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
If AM had landed recruits at Dayton that made you scratch your head wondering how, then I'd more inclined to be concerned at this point. Archie was telling recruits they were too good to play at UD, so I doubt we have much to worry about.

Although, having said that, I'm even more glad he's gone now that we know his brother is as crooked as they come. Archie did spend two seasons as an assistant at Arizona, and his Wiki page says he "shined as a top recruiter" there. Who knows what he knows about what went on there recruiting wise, or even if he was involved.

what this means is Archie shined the untraceable gold coins. This whole thing is disgusting.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
The report that ESPN released Friday is so specific itís hard to believe itís not true. But, I keep thinking, ďWhat if itís not true?Ē Itís not like we have never heard the term fake news or the possibility the Russians are putting out false news reports. So whatís worse...S Miller really did have conversations with an agent about $100k for Ayton or ESPN got it wrong from unnamed sources?
Yahoo Sports was point on the story.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
To lend additional support to your comment, UDGutter2, this seems to shed light on Archie's notion that "this or that recruit was too good to come to Dayton." In other words, why choose Dayton when you could choose a team that was willing, either directly or indirectly, to pay you for playing?
I know I was shocked when I read that but didn't realize that money not skill was the issue. I still remember the picture of Sean, Archie, the dad, and the all important John Calipari discussing what Archie should do. I would love to hear the discussion between Sean and his dad.
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:01 AM
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  #148  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Have had that suspicion as all of this started getting traction in the past few days. Not saying itís fact. Just saying that, as more and more facts and evidence are presented, you have to wonder if Archie gave up on some recruits because he assumed UD wouldnít pay the price to get them. And, perhaps, his move to a P5 school like IU was a signal that he was tired of ďplaying by the rulesĒ, because thatís not how championships are won (apparently)? Just saying, there are now at least a few seeds of doubt and suspicion.
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Bingo!
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:54 AM
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Statement from D. Ayton's family lawyer.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...egations-false
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  #150  
Old 02-25-2018, 08:01 AM
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Couple things here:

First it shouldn't be too hard to see that any top 30 potential recruit is going to go to one of the top 10 maybe 20 programs ... so investigation by the NCAA should be focused on those characteristics. However that puts the NCAA squarely at odds with the big elephant and gorillas in the room. Easy to see that will be hard for the NCAA to deal with.

Secondly, the NCAA is the least of some people's problems. With the FBI being the lead government agency in this their resources and muscle is 1000's times more than the NCAA would ever hope to have.

If you couple in the fact that money changed hands under the table and undoubtedly no taxes were paid on this cash (whether it was 100G's or 1G) the IRS could get involved another large powerful governmental agency.

So directly, individuals or groups involved have to deal with at least the FBI and although I can't seem to remember who they are, there has been a person under scrutiny by the FBI for quite some time and look at all the problems that has generated for them lately.

No the NCAA is a small item to deal with for the individual or group.

I am sure we all know how the NCAA will play this out:

St Francis U located in Loretto PA home of the Fighting Red Flashes (a Div 1 program) will be hit with many sanctions and any banner they have will be taken done.

Secondly a few Div III BB players (to be named later) will have to quit their team.

On the same day this is announced, DUKE will issue a press release that all 5 recruits for 2020 have been named McD's All Americans. And Kentucky issued a statement that 3 of their players have announced they will not return to the program in 2020 as they will be placed in the up-coming NBA draft. The 3 have been projected to be selected in the top 10.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer2 View Post
Yahoo Sports was point on the story.
It gets confusing these days because news organizations pick up stories from each other and run with them without noting the original source. From what I’ve read, it looks like Yahoo Sports broke the paper documents showing 20 schools and 25 players and their family members who might have gotten payments and/ or meals and travel paid for from Dawkins/ASM agency. Sean and Ayton were not on the paper documents. ESPN appears to have broken the story based on FBI source(s) that they have Sean on a wiretap talking about $100k to Ayton. The news reports are saying it’s several conversation between Dawkins and Miller about Ayton, but does not say money was talked about in multiple conversations. It’s unclear. One new report Sunday am even references a transcript but I’ve seen no transcript published anywhere. And apparently press row at the Oregon-AZ game last night was reporting Sean had been relieved of his duties at AZ but they had to walk that back because it wasn’t true.

Here’s what I know about sports reporting, about 20 years ago the biggest sportscaster in Dallas, TX did a commentary that sports reporting had crossed over from news to entertainment reporting. I agree with that 100%. Sportscasters become friends with the athletes and coaches they are reporting on. So when faced with a pure news story, I do wonder if today’s sports reporters even have the background to dig and cross check sources before running with a news report. They better have at least two sources on this. I hope ESPN didn’t run with this because Yahoo scooped everyone with the paper payment story.

As I stated above, it’s very detailed in the report so it’s hard to believe it’s not true, but Sean and Ayton are saying they are innocent or will be vindicated. So you have to ask is it worse if the news reporting is wrong. I think it is. But it’s hard to sue for defamation and/or libel when you’re a public official.

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  #152  
Old 02-25-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Well, apparently Sean has issued a statement saying he is confident heíll be vindicated, but I wonder if thatís kind of like Archieís statement that heíll be in Dayton as long as Dayton wants him?
If I had not had that conversation I would deny it a lot more vehemently than that. I wouldn't say I was "confident" I'd be "vindicated." I would say I absolutely did NOT have that conversation and I am consulting my attorney about a libel lawsuit.
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  #153  
Old 02-25-2018, 09:45 AM
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I don't think it's going to matter for Sean because the feds have Book Richardson and he's facing 60 years in prison and 1.5 mil fine...I really can't believe Arizona hasn't already fired Sean. What's Sean's take? I had no idea what Book was doing? That defense didn't work for Pitino.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:53 AM
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What if this is the tip of the iceberg of a larger NCAA conspiracy? What I mean by that - is if everyone knows this stuff goes on at the larger blue blood schools, why has the NCAA turned a blind eye to it. Why does it take the FBI or the media to find out? It has been obvious that the NCAA has a huge slant towards the Power 5 when it comes to seeding in the tournament. Does anyone really think Dayton was number 68, last team in, the year we played Boise State? Then Gotlieb complains that Dayton gets a "home game" in Columbus when many of the Blue Bloods regularly play at "home" in the tournament. The whole thing is silly. We win the A-10 and gets a 7 seed matched up against a 10 seeded Witchita State team. It was a travesty. I think this is just a money grab by the big schools that control the NCAA. How much money is enough? I hope they all are implicated.

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Old 02-25-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I say let Rome burn.
And I am loving this. Weíve all known for years this was going on.
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:46 AM
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I guess the team that I am most interested in that's been named is Wichita St. Marshall had the team going in the right direction but those van Fleet teams were amazing. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hit hard with this. **** those mid majors being good...We can't have that! They don't belong here.
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:06 AM
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I subscribe to a great site of sports articles called The Athletic. Last night they had a great summary story about this whole matter. The most interesting fact, I had not seen elsewhere, is that the NCAA cannot start their investigations and penalties until the FBI is done. They cited two reasons: the NCAA could be cited with tampering, and secondly, they could lost their exempt status. So they are saying this thing will drag on for a long time, because the NCAA will take a year or two after the FBI is done.
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  #158  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I subscribe to a great site of sports articles called The Athletic. Last night they had a great summary story about this whole matter. The most interesting fact, I had not seen elsewhere, is that the NCAA cannot start their investigations and penalties until the FBI is done. They cited two reasons: the NCAA could be cited with tampering, and secondly, they could lost their exempt status. So they are saying this thing will drag on for a long time, because the NCAA will take a year or two after the FBI is done.
If this occurs, what happens to the whole concept of the Power Five conferences? I think this would have a dramatic effect on them, not only in basketball but football as well. Will all of the teams be mid-majors when all is said and done? Frankly, I think it would be a much healthier and fairer system.
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  #159  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
. I think this is just a money grab by the big schools that control the NCAA. How much money is enough? I hope they all are implicated.
Never too much money for them. We watch the games. Ratings go up. Ratings go up advertising revenue goes up. Sports networks pay a bundle to Conferences and stadiums get bigger and bigger to hold more fans, make more money.

I'm told that SEC schools got somewhere north of $40M for their share last year. Rinse and repeat. Nothing is going to totally erase that money machine. Mid majors are pawns.

When it's all done, some federal agency will indict a dozen Russians and no one else.
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  #160  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
As long he doesn't get the Elite Banner 8 taken down
That stuff might not matter to some but it would be heartbreaking to me. You can't take the memories and the pure jubilation but it would erase the best 2 week stretch of my Flyer fandom.
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Just didn't want us to get too high on that horse about the X guys...
Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Ride that horse baby! Ride high!


Atleast nobody from _avier of UD never punched the horse.
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  #162  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
lucky E8 run
maybe getting in the Tourney. But that run was earned. They were the better team in all 3 wins
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  #163  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:29 PM
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I don't think it matters when the NCAA does its investigation. When the FBI indicts agents, coaches, players, apparel company reps, an NCAA investigation would be useless and self-serving at best. The FBI has already begun shooting and when that happens a lot of people are going to get spattered. Some deservingly so and some not.

I agree. let Rome burn.

Am little concerned about Archie. He was there with Sean during this period. You have to believe that brothers \ assistant coach talk to each other about recruits, recruiting needs and who is out there.

I always thought that when the UD job came along that Archie would have discussed it with Sean before accepting. They certainly knew the UD program from their days at X. I was and am still pleased that Archie took the UD position. Maybe Sean wanted to keep his brother out of this recruiting stuff and safe.

Even though he left us for big bucks, I am hoping that Archie is more honorable and made sure this recruiting crap did not happen to him, on his watch or to his players.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
I guess the team that I am most interested in that's been named is Wichita St. Marshall had the team going in the right direction but those van Fleet teams were amazing. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hit hard with this. **** those mid majors being good...We can't have that! They don't belong here.
Yeah, if this was the Ď80s, Cleveland State would be shaking in their Nikes right about now.
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  #165  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
I don't think it matters when the NCAA does its investigation. When the FBI indicts agents, coaches, players, apparel company reps, an NCAA investigation would be useless and self-serving at best. The FBI has already begun shooting and when that happens a lot of people are going to get spattered. Some deservingly so and some not.

I agree. let Rome burn.

Am little concerned about Archie. He was there with Sean during this period. You have to believe that brothers \ assistant coach talk to each other about recruits, recruiting needs and who is out there.

I always thought that when the UD job came along that Archie would have discussed it with Sean before accepting. They certainly knew the UD program from their days at X. I was and am still pleased that Archie took the UD position. Maybe Sean wanted to keep his brother out of this recruiting stuff and safe.

Even though he left us for big bucks, I am hoping that Archie is more honorable and made sure this recruiting crap did not happen to him, on his watch or to his players.
I don’t think it’s Sean trying to “shield” his baby brother from the sharks and pit bulls of the big time programs. And no, I don’t have to believe that brothers talked about “everything” inside the business. Did Arch probably consult or get feedback from Sean re: the UD job? Sure. But to automatically assume that Archie is aware of “how it was done” or how his brother was doing it (recruiting) is not so cut and dry. I have four brothers and if one of us were doing something illegal or cause for termination inside of our trade/profession, I’m not sure that would be common knowledge amongst us.

IF “everyone” at the top level is doing what Sean is alleged to have done/proposed, then it’s probably naive to think that Archie wasn’t at least aware of the practice, not necessarily this particular instance. And IF Archie was aware of the practice, certainly doesn’t mean that was a practice that he was using, considering or even floating to others that could/should be at UD.

Do I believe ALL of the top programs are doing this? No.
Do I believe this Sean Miller incident is an isolated one. Also a No.
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Old 02-25-2018, 02:33 PM
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I am presuming not , but count me as ****ed if UD’s success has been held back in recruiting by these programs paying students over the past 20 years.
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  #167  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:47 PM
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  #168  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
As long he doesn't get the Elite Banner 8 taken down
I they take down the elite 8 banner I will stick a post it note on the UD Arena wall saying ď2014 NCAA Elite 8ď every home game until the day I die.
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  #169  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:56 PM
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  #170  
Old 02-25-2018, 03:23 PM
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Oklahoma St's subpoena covers Travis Ford's time there. Ford shows up at STL, hires a coach with deep connections to an AAU team and starts landing top 75 players mysteriously beating Kansas out for one

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  #171  
Old 02-25-2018, 05:56 PM
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Didn't UD say no to one of AGs potential assistant coaches? Perhaps they knew or wanted to prevent anything fishy.
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  #172  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It won't be long until kids can go straight from HS to the NBA...no more 1-and-dones.
Allowing kids to go straight from HS to NBA does not and will not get rid of one-and-dones.

Plenty of kids will still turn pro after just one year, it will just be the ones who were more cautious or who blew up during freshman year of college vs. senior year of high school.

Best case scenario for both the college and NBA game is to have a 2 or 3 year minimum rule. College game is better with elite stars staying. NBA game gets better as the worst teams get players more ready to contribute.

Make too much sense to happen.
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
Allowing kids to go straight from HS to NBA does not and will not get rid of one-and-dones.

Plenty of kids will still turn pro after just one year, it will just be the ones who were more cautious or who blew up during freshman year of college vs. senior year of high school.

Best case scenario for both the college and NBA game is to have a 2 or 3 year minimum rule. College game is better with elite stars staying. NBA game gets better as the worst teams get players more ready to contribute.

Make too much sense to happen.
The scenario I have heard discussed is that players could declare for the draft out of high school but if they go to college they would have to stay for two years. That would be ideal. (Three years would be even better, but that is unlikely.)
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
I am presuming not , but count me as ****ed if UDís success has been held back in recruiting by these programs paying students over the past 20 years.
Prepare to be ****ed. Me? iíve always known it was done this way with top programs- thats what made it special when despite all the shenanigans UD still found a way to get teams to final 8
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:37 PM
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Send some dirty head coaches (Miller), assistants and their AAU handlers to jail and this crap ends quickly. Otherwise it just goes on in the shadows. Sick and tired of the state of the culture today - feel like honesty is in the minority.
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  #176  
Old 02-25-2018, 07:38 PM
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In addition to the Ayton family lawyer issuing a statement on their behalf, an outside lawyer hired by UA has also issued a statement noting both the feds and NCAA have zero evidence he or family or any representative has taken money or illegal perks. Thatís pretty strong. Add to that neither Sean or Ayton are listed on Dawkins paper trail published by Yahoo sports last Friday.

Based on whatís out there right now, itís looking strong that Ayton committed to AZ because he is from the area and liked the program. It also makes me question the alleged wiretap conversation between Sean and Dawkins and the source(s) ESPN talked to. If this story blows up itís going to be a very sad day. Time will tell.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:41 PM
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Hers the link

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...i1iuwkyksvilnf
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:08 PM
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Red face

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post

Based on whatís out there right now, itís looking strong that Ayton committed to AZ because he is from the area and liked the program. It also makes me question the alleged wiretap conversation between Sean and Dawkins and the source(s) ESPN talked to. If this story blows up itís going to be a very sad day. Time will tell.
No it's not looking strong.

What did you expect his lawyer to say? "Yup he took money, his bad. " That's never going to happen.

An FBI wiretap conversation is about as ironclad as it gets. Of course there is no evidence other than the conversation. If there was, Sean would be very bad at his job. There isn't going to be a huge paper trail.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:27 PM
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Further...

As longtimefan pointed out, saying I'm confident I'll be vindicated" is not a statement one would expect from an innocent man.

A guilty man might say that or he might lie and state that the claim is absolutely false. An innocent man would say only one thing: "The story is completely false, I never did such a thing, there is no evidence that I did. Period"....or something like that.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:35 PM
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The story from Arizona fans now is that Miller was working for the FBI the whole time undercover

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Old 02-25-2018, 08:44 PM
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And maybe he was. Or wasn't. Truth will (hopefully) come out sooner or later. Of course, the trial by media will be long over by then, and even if he's not guilty, in many minds, he will forever be tainted. Why this stuff is leaking out without indictments is ridiculous.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
I am presuming not , but count me as ****ed if UDís success has been held back in recruiting by these programs paying students over the past 20 years.
FlyerBob: You hit on the very soul of the issue. This whole thing tilts the NCAA and everything about it in the direction of the cheaters. I hope they unleash the wrath of hell against these programs and send a message that this is about academics, athletics, and true competition, not tilted competition.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
FlyerBob: You hit on the very soul of the issue. This whole thing tilts the NCAA and everything about it in the direction of the cheaters. I hope they unleash the wrath of hell against these programs and send a message that this is about academics, athletics, and true competition, not tilted competition.
NCAA risk losing money in the name of what's right? Good luck with that one!
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:54 PM
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The editor and publisher of an Arizona Wildcat site has been tweeting up a storm:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonscheer
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The story from Arizona fans now is that Miller was working for the FBI the whole time undercover

Theyíre not taking this well:

Replying to @Mark_Schlabach
Youíre in a lot of trouble if you cannot substantiate what your sources are telling. The UofA is a very large, strong, wealthy, passionate, & intelligent community that would want nothing more than to end your career & bankrupt you if this turns out to be false.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tjatua/st...99316990824449
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:12 PM
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The NCAA’s scrutiny of Wade began not long after his hire at LSU in March, but the inquiry has stalled because of a lack of on-the-record specifics about Wade’s recruiting, according to a source. The NCAA’s information gathering has covered part of his time as head coach at VCU, according to a source. Wade’s early recruiting activity at LSU prompted the NCAA enforcement interest, according to a source.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-lsu...011522122.html

VCU in the cross hairs now
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:45 PM
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@NicoleAuerbach
I talked to a few mid-major head coaches today who have worked on Power Five staffs before.

To summarize their reactions to today’s news: “Burn it all down. Level the playing field.”
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
maybe getting in the Tourney. But that run was earned. They were the better team in all 3 wins
Cards were in our favor...that E8 run had nothing to do with AM building a team with the use of cutting checks to player's families.

There was luck on the side of the Flyers. Not questioning the talent matchup's of our Flyers...we had some great players. But at no time did anyone at the start of the season look at the UD roster and place them in the E8. Stars were aligned and things came together.
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
MSU says they've already cleared their guy with the NCAA. How is that possible?
So, MSU and others can review with their compliance offices and the NCAA, players named in these reports and clear them to play in a matter of hours yet the same Michigan State program has a kid sitting on their bench accused of sexual assault last fall because the investigation is "ongoing?"

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...stigation-espn

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Old 02-26-2018, 07:44 AM
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During the Wisc v MSU game yesterday, the CBS announcers praised MSU officials for so quickly clearing Bridges from all charges...and I thought to myself 'the FBI takes 2 years to gather all this info and in a matter of hours MSU clears Bridges of everything.'

Considering all the heads that have rolled at MSU this past month or so, you'd think the new Administration would take cheating charges a little more seriously.

The fact that MSU didn't even blink at these allegations/charges tells me all I need to know about (a) who's in charge of MSU and (b) how much money is at stake.

Inmates > Asylum.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
During the Wisc v MSU game yesterday, the CBS announcers praised MSU officials for so quickly clearing Bridges from all charges...and I thought to myself 'the FBI takes 2 years to gather all this info and in a matter of hours MSU clears Bridges of everything.'

Considering all the heads that have rolled at MSU this past month or so, you'd think the new Administration would take cheating charges a little more seriously.

The fact that MSU didn't even blink at these allegations/charges tells me all I need to know about (a) who's in charge of MSU and (b) how much money is at stake.

Inmates > Asylum.
Thought the exact same thing when watching Sportscenter yesterday...they kept rehashing the programs that have "done an investigation and found nothing". Horse manure. You don't clear people in 48 hours after allegations...
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  #192  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Thought the exact same thing when watching Sportscenter yesterday...they kept rehashing the programs that have "done an investigation and found nothing". Horse manure. You don't clear people in 48 hours after allegations...
Well, they did "internal investigations" and shut those down in 48 hours. That would be the equivalent of a felon investigating his own crimes and arriving at the conclusion that "he did nothing wrong."
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Well, they did "internal investigations" and shut those down in 48 hours. That would be the equivalent of a felon investigating his own crimes and arriving at the conclusion that "he did nothing wrong."
How difficult could it be for the UA Prez and Sean to sit in a room and listen to the "conversation" he had about Ayton and say, he Sean, is that you? Or at the very least, the two of them sit across from each other in the Prez's office and he asks Miller point blank? No lie detector, no lawyers, just the two of them. Wonder how Sean would answer?
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
No it's not looking strong.

What did you expect his lawyer to say? "Yup he took money, his bad. " That's never going to happen.

An FBI wiretap conversation is about as ironclad as it gets. Of course there is no evidence other than the conversation. If there was, Sean would be very bad at his job. There isn't going to be a huge paper trail.
Point of clarification. I would expect the familyís lawyer to say he didnít do it. Thatís what came out Saturday early evening. What came out Sunday prompted my post. A 2nd lawyer. One that AZ hired as one of two law firms to do their internal investigation, released a statement saying Ayton passed both the NCAA and the FBI interviews with flying colors (as well as others like the PAC 12). This 2nd attorney said neither the NCAA or the FBI have anything on him and no one believes he was paid any money to play at AZ nor it appears did he ever have conversations with anyone (AZ, shoe company, agent, etc) to be paid. I also read this attorney didnít ask AZ for permission to release this statement. Itís being reported he informed them he was going to do it because the player is innocent of whatís being reported. Thatís pretty strong. And it leads me to question ESPNs report that Sean had a conversation with Dawkins (representing ASM Sports) about an agreement to pay THIS player $100k. AND Dawkins paper notes of payments to players and their families released by Yahoo Sports have no reference to Sean or Ayton while the same notes have 20 schools and 25 players listed. The reporting about the conversation is Dawkins and Sean had an agreement to pay Ayton $100k to play for AZ. Thatís not adding up for me right now with the other three things that have been released. (2 attorney comments + the paper notes.)

Now the conversation might have been ďif you (Sean) need it to get this kid we (ASM) are prepared to pay him $100kĒ. Maybe the kid being discussed wasnít Ayton but some other recruit??? In other words, Sean might have had a conversation with Dawkins about a $100k payment, but right now Iím having a problem with whatís being reported, especially since the paper note has zero mention of AZ in anyway.
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  #195  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:07 AM
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Ayton is gone at the end of the season. He just needs to make it until then. If he is suspended then Arizona is admitting it used ineligible player and the season is wiped and Ayton will never get reinstated by the NCAA.

Better to play the games because the NCAA can never really take it away.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:08 AM
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If the UDPride Bureau of Investigation ever accuses me of being a perverted, sexist poster - and refers to cheerleader and/or bikini attachments as evidence - I'd just like to state for the Royal Record that Rudy the Wonderdog has completed a thorough and complete investigation of The King and found no evidence of any intentional or unintentional indiscretions in violation of any policies or procedures stipulated in the UDPride Code of Conduct. Therefore,



Oh, and one more thing....

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  #197  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Well, they did "internal investigations" and shut those down in 48 hours. That would be the equivalent of a felon investigating his own crimes and arriving at the conclusion that "he did nothing wrong."
I assume the NCAA ďcleared to playĒ is the NCAA telling the school that they have no investigation open on a player because they only open investigations when they are presented evidence/a reason to do so. Itís how all the players on Dawkins paper note released by Yahoo Sports also got clearance to play.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@NicoleAuerbach
I talked to a few mid-major head coaches today who have worked on Power Five staffs before.

To summarize their reactions to todayís news: ďBurn it all down. Level the playing field.Ē
My feelings exactly- flush it all down, pull down championship banners if necessary- and clean it up. My additional hope is that higher officials inside or at the top of the NCAA administration are also implicated as i believe they might be (otherwise why would they be completely in the dark?). Make this the way it should be.
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  #199  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
How difficult could it be for the UA Prez and Sean to sit in a room and listen to the "conversation" he had about Ayton and say, he Sean, is that you? Or at the very least, the two of them sit across from each other in the Prez's office and he asks Miller point blank? No lie detector, no lawyers, just the two of them. Wonder how Sean would answer?
They would need to get it from the FBI. Would the FBI release a piece of evidence on someone they are investigating? Iím not sure they would even verbally tell AZ they have it. Tough spot for AZ.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:20 AM
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Paying players

It seems to me that if there is real proof that SM even discussed paying players to come to AZ he's in trouble even if there is no proof it ever happened.

What school can tolerate having its head coach proved to have been even engaged in a conversation re payments to HS players?
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