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  #1  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:13 PM
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Alex Carmona - John Calipari

I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball.

There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Gem City View Post
I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball.

There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it.
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His handler was a former player at UMass, Paddia if the spelling is correct
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:52 PM
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Edgar Padilla.

Whether you like Calipari or not you should at least acknowledge that 30 for 30 was another great tool in his recruiting pitch for prospective players.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:12 PM
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It fits ESPN's agenda that the college system is unfair.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:20 PM
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Edgar Padilla was/ is one of Calipari's unofficial talent scouts. "One" being the key word. No one really knows what's in it for these talent scouts but it doesn't smell right.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:59 PM
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:19 PM
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I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive.

Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:55 PM
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Was Carmona committed to Dayton and then Memphis came in? I need some refreshing on this story
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:11 PM
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He was verbaled to Memphis when Padilla had Carmona enrolled in Troy with a "host" family. He later moved in with an assistant coach and then committed to UD. That is when Padilla flew to Dayton and had him shipped back to Puerto Rico. He never played college ball.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:26 PM
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Lets see, Calipari had two national championships wiped clean; first at UMass then again at Memphis and some think he's good enough to coach here at Dayton unbelievable, he shouldn't be aloud to coach at any college let alone Dayton. Tells ya a lot about some fans who would take him in a heart beat with his track record of NCAA violations.....but he's not alone.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive.

Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.
From what I know regarding Calipari, the AAU/BigShots tournament circuit, recruits, and the funneling of money to him via family members...it would make you sick. I have close personal contact with people who have close ties to all of this and get accurate info. the big business of college basketball drives it and the real money comes from the funneling of college players to certain agents for the pro contracts. Not the money from getting kids to their school...but rather getting the big money once the kids go pro...and there aren't too many kids that funnel kids to the pros season after season.

Is he the only one that does it? Nope. He is a sleaze, no matter how you shake it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Lets see, Calipari had two national championships wiped clean; first at UMass then again at Memphis and some think he's good enough to coach here at Dayton unbelievable, he shouldn't be aloud to coach at any college let alone Dayton. Tells ya a lot about some fans who would take him in a heart beat with his track record of NCAA violations.....but he's not alone.
Calipari has never had a national championship vacated. Umass lost in the first game of the Final 4 that was vacated in 1996. Memphis lost in the Championship game to Kansas in 2008 and that was vacated. If you're going to be critical at least get your facts right.

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
From what I know regarding Calipari, the AAU/BigShots tournament circuit, recruits, and the funneling of money to him via family members...it would make you sick. I have close personal contact with people who have close ties to all of this and get accurate info. the big business of college basketball drives it and the real money comes from the funneling of college players to certain agents for the pro contracts. Not the money from getting kids to their school...but rather getting the big money once the kids go pro...and there aren't too many kids that funnel kids to the pros season after season.

Is he the only one that does it? Nope. He is a sleaze, no matter how you shake it.
At least you both can admit that he's not the only one cheating.

Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Calipari has never had a national championship vacated. Umass lost in the first game of the Final 4 that was vacated in 1996. Memphis lost in the Championship game to Kansas in 2008 and that was vacated. If you're going to be critical at least get your facts right.



At least you both can admit that he's not the only one cheating.

Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.
YES absolutely, I want Dayton to win but not at any cost like some on here want. Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....that tells you where the admins position is on coaches who violate NCAA rules even if its only a perception.

There is NO WAY ever Dayton would hire the likes of Calipari or a few other NCAA violators.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:02 AM
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Yes C-time I was wrong on the title being vacated but it wasn't just his final four appearance. Memphis had to vacate all 38 regular season games and the 5 NCAA games so while it wasn't the championship game it was a lot more...so if you want to correct me at least tell the whole story.

If you have no problem with a sleazeball coaching college kids thats on you.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ur-erasedagain
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.
Apparently you didn't see the reaction from Memphis fans on his return to their city. Believe me they care and will care another 25 years from now. But glad you are showing your true colors not many would admit they'd take him as their coach.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
YES absolutely, I want Dayton to win but not at any cost like some on here want. Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....that tells you where the admins position is on coaches who violate NCAA rules even if its only a perception.

There is NO WAY ever Dayton would hire the likes of Calipari or a few other NCAA violators.
I realize that is the direction UD chooses to take, and I realize that's why Donnie Jones didn't get hired. I respect that point of view which you share with them to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to care much about the NCAA rules when they barely/inconsistently enforce them.

In the end I want UD to win games and go deep in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what it takes. If UD were to somehow end up with a vacated Final 4 trip I would still be happy it happened til the day I die.

JUST WIN BABY!!!!
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Yes C-time I was wrong on the title being vacated but it wasn't just his final four appearance. Memphis had to vacate all 38 regular season games and the 5 NCAA games so while it wasn't the championship game it was a lot more...so if you want to correct me at least tell the whole story.

If you have no problem with a sleazeball coaching college kids thats on you.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ur-erasedagain
What does it matter that the NCAA vacated all their wins. The games still happened. Who cares what is in some NCAA record book.

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Apparently you didn't see the reaction from Memphis fans on his return to their city. Believe me they care and will care another 25 years from now. But glad you are showing your true colors not many would admit they'd take him as their coach.
I saw it and Memphis fans weren't mad because the Final 4 and wins were vacated. They were mad at Calipari because he left Memphis for Kentucky and that their program has fallen on hard times.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:19 AM
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Comparing Brian G and Archie they both came in as unkowns and took the program to a higher lever. Brian and his wife became entrenched in the community and it was apparent they loved it here and would have stayed the course had he not made some critical errors along the way.

Archie came with a whole different approach, not as easy to get to know and neither he nor his wife embedded themselves in the community. It was as if they were leaving the door open for the eventual move without having to say any farewells.

As with OP Archie saw Dayton as a great stepping stone to his dream job. He did well with what he had but wasn't all that great a recruiter, but was masterful with getting his players to buy into his system.

While Brian wanted Dayton to be the big job till MU opened up Archie was just marking time. But statements like "I'll be here as long as they want me" runs hollow when he left as he did. Brian was sincere, Archie was not.

Both made their impact on the program; Brian stumbled at his next gig, while we will have to wait and see how Archie does with a bigger gig.

John Miller made the statement Dayton was too hard to recruit for; for the short term AG and staff have steadied the ship and have it ready to sail.

Won't take long for either to make or miss their mark. If I were to gamble I'd put my money on AG.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....
OK I'll bite .. who was AG's top vetoed choice?
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
What does it matter that the NCAA vacated all their wins. The games still happened. Who cares what is in some NCAA record book.



I saw it and Memphis fans weren't mad because the Final 4 and wins were vacated. They were mad at Calipari because he left Memphis for Kentucky and that their program has fallen on hard times.
YOu see it the way you want....others tend to not agree.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
OK I'll bite .. who was AG's top vetoed choice?
It was Donnie Jones who Wichita St hired after UD admins turned him down.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
OK I'll bite .. who was AG's top vetoed choice?
His first choice was Donnie Jones. Admin axed AG's choice for being on a 3 year watch list for NCAA violations.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...08-column.html

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Old 05-18-2017, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
YOu see it the way you want....others tend to not agree.
And we are all entitled to our own opinions which is fine.

BTW you never answered my question from earlier in this thread about how you would feel if UD Elite 8 trip was vacated. Would you delete all your pics and video of the trip? Would you burn your Elite 8 t-shirt? Would you boo the team when they get honored at a game in 2034?
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I realize that is the direction UD chooses to take, and I realize that's why Donnie Jones didn't get hired. I respect that point of view which you share with them to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to care much about the NCAA rules when they barely/inconsistently enforce them.

In the end I want UD to win games and go deep in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what it takes. If UD were to somehow end up with a vacated Final 4 trip I would still be happy it happened til the day I die.

JUST WIN BABY!!!!
SAD so SAD....screw rules and fair play. While I admit the NCAA don't enforce their rules evenly that don't make it right to just do as one pleases and if ya get caught, oh well.

Ya might want to start following UNC, UoL, Ky, these coaches and program are more akin to your thinking and liking. Dayton is not going to be one of them.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And we are all entitled to our own opinions which is fine.

BTW you never answered my question from earlier in this thread about how you would feel if UD Elite 8 trip was vacated. Would you delete all your pics and video of the trip? Would you burn your Elite 8 t-shirt? Would you boo the team when they get honored at a game in 2034?
I did answer it, if you can read it was posted not as an answer to you but an answer in general.

But to make sure you do understand where I come form, I wear my Dayton heat proudly as we do it the right way for the most part, we self reported the Clay Mathie incident and I would not wear my hat in public if Dayton pulled a Calipari. Its not in my genes to brag and celebrate an embarrassment which is what it is. Some of us have higher ethics and standards for our U than others from what you seem to be willing to accept and admit

While one can remember the run and all that went with it, the result would tarnish the program that I love and could not celebrate it.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
SAD so SAD....screw rules and fair play. While I admit the NCAA don't enforce their rules evenly that don't make it right to just do as one pleases and if ya get caught, oh well.

Ya might want to start following UNC, UoL, Ky, these coaches and program are more akin to your thinking and liking. Dayton is not going to be one of them
Like I said earlier we are both entitled to our opinions, It's also obvious you are a much better human being than I am, and never done anything wrong or deceitful.

Last edited by C-time; 05-18-2017 at 12:46 AM.. Reason: Just saw previous reply
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
I did answer it, if you can read it was posted not as an answer to you but an answer in general.

But to make sure you do understand where I come form, I wear my Dayton heat proudly as we do it the right way for the most part, we self reported the Clay Mathie incident and I would not wear my hat in public if Dayton pulled a Calipari. Its not in my genes to brag and celebrate an embarrassment which is what it is. Some of us have higher ethics and standards for our U than others from what you seem to be willing to accept and admit

While one can remember the run and all that went with it, the result would tarnish the program that I love and could not celebrate it.
That's why I missed it. It didn't seem very specific to my question.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Like I said earlier we are both entitled to our opinions, It's also obvious you are a much better human being than I am, and never done anything wrong or deceitful.
I see you are one of those who take an opinion different from yours to the extreme. We have all done things we would like to be able to undo or redo but there are levels of deceit in what you are implying. Cheat Cheat Cheat until you are caught is in a whole different world than a few things some of us may have done. This is an imperfect world and therefore we all make mistakes but to believe that two wrongs made a right and that others may be doing it so its okay is again on a whole different level.

Dayton made it to the elite 8, the right way, and with limited personnel which makes the run all that much sweeter.

With that cheat cheat cheat mentality which you openly display in your posts should raise a red flag to anyone who knows you. Well at least since you are open about it they would have fair warning up front.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem City View Post
I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball.

There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it.
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Alejandro Carmona is fairly well known, at least by those who follow Pan Am basketball. Rick Pitino actually coached him in the 2015 Pan Am games when he took the job as the coach of the Puerto Rico National Team for some strange reason.

Kind of an interesting read....

http://tdn-net.com/sports/local-spor...jandro-carmona
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.
I work with a number of OSU graduates, most of them as you might expect being pretty big football fans. A few of them went to New Orleans for the 2011 Sugar Bowl which OSU won over Arkansas, but the win was later vacated. While all of them said they're disappointed the win was vacated and wish OSU didn't face the scandal it faced, they also said vacating the win after the fact in no way changed their memories of the trip. "Who cares what a record book says? I still had a blast and I watched my team win."
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive.

Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.
I wouldn't want him, or - actually now that I'm thinking about it- it nauseates me to think about "coach Cal" ever representing UD. Not him, not a brother or even a second cousin at this point...
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive.

Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.


I agree... I actually believe him when he says he tries to do whats best for the kids. His job is to get them in the NBA and he does that, in turn it helps his career. Seems like a win win.

It's funny people say they wouldn't want anyone near coach cal, coaching datyon... when he's probably archie's biggest mentor outside of his family.


He's no better or worse than any of the other top head coaches.... just maybe more honest about how much he really cares about the kids getting an 'education'.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by moville View Post
John Chaney, where are you when we need you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jU...1z7eGVa0BWm1Xi
Classic.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Edgar Padilla.

Whether you like Calipari or not you should at least acknowledge that 30 for 30 was another great tool in his recruiting pitch for prospective players.
While I'm no big fan of him his biggest issue early on was he transcended time......It simply was not okay 25 years ago for a young,slick, unproven coach to be incredibly brash and ultra confident..The guy hadn't won a game and said what he intended to do and did it..Now, you have plenty of 14-15 year old kids being idolized by adults, getting college offers, and dictating the rules to an extent ...
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
I agree... I actually believe him when he says he tries to do whats best for the kids. His job is to get them in the NBA and he does that, in turn it helps his career. Seems like a win win.

It's funny people say they wouldn't want anyone near coach cal, coaching datyon... when he's probably archie's biggest mentor outside of his family.

He's no better or worse than any of the other top head coaches.... just maybe more honest about how much he really cares about the kids getting an 'education'.
This is is great summation of why I don't dislike Calipari.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:32 AM
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I actually don't mind Cal. he essentially wins by understanding the rules of the game and being honest about it. I have a much harder time with the likes of Roy Williams who can hide behind some perceived rosy image of an institutuion and be a part of the BS that went on there for so long. Cal does not ever try to pretend to be so,mething he isn't. And I believe now thathe is part of a program that kids really want to be a part of, he doesn't have to play along the edges of the rules. once they allowed one and does, his job became relatively easy. And as a basketball coach, I understand all of the talent, but he essentially has a new team every year and i am amazed at how he canget them playing together so consistently.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
This is is great summation of why I don't dislike Calipari.
He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation.

Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past.

It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

Last edited by ud2; 05-18-2017 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation.

Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past.

It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.
But Pitino didn't know about the strippers!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to argue with you because anyone who has read this thread realizes that most of that stuff just doesn't bother me that much.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:09 PM
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Bob Knight and John Calipari


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


He got 2 schools put on probation, yet he is still coaching.

???
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
But Pitino didn't know about the strippers!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to argue with you because anyone who has read this thread realizes that most of that stuff just doesn't bother me that much.
But you've been told by our Mother Teresa on the board with that "cheat cheat cheat mentality which you openly display in your posts should raise a red flag to anyone who knows you"..lmao
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation.

Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past.

It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

If Rose went to Duke.... nothing would have came of it. The ncaa would have went away with their tail between their legs. They seriously had nothing and still don't... I can't believe what they were allowed to do without any real proof of anything.

The camby situation is a little different, he may or may not have known, but that happens all over the ncaa not just from calipari. I hate UK, but i wanted him to stick it to the blue bloods before he was one.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:21 PM
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The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew!

Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew!

Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.


They might have had suspicions, but in the end there was never proof he didnt take the test. (As far as I'm aware) Even if they suspend him in the middle of the season, most likely the result is the same; they just don't go as far.

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Old 05-18-2017, 01:59 PM
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Whether you like or dislike Calipari, or think he did or did not do anything wrong...I am surprised that people are not only defending "cheating" in general, but going as far as mocking other posters with "Mother Theresa" or "you must be a better human being than me" if they argue that cheating is wrong.

Based on what I am reading...Avid most likely IS a better person.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
They might have had suspicions, but in the end there was never proof he didnt take the test. (As far as I'm aware) Even if they suspend him in the middle of the season, most likely the result is the same; they just don't go as far.
They didn't need proof once Memphis admitted they used an ineligible player and didn't fight it in any way.

I'm not sure the Camby situation was really Calipari's fault but the other thing they glossed over in the 30 for 30 is all the rumors about how he got Camby to go to UMass in the first place. Lots of shady rumors there too.

I don't begrudge him for embracing the one and done because a kid should be able to do what they want at that point and to be honest I think it has helped to level the playing field for mid majors. It's his recruiting methods that I think are the biggest issue. And he may well be clean now because he can get whoever he wants now but he certainly was no angel earlier in his career when it came to recruiting.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:34 PM
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I thought the anger towards Calipari would have lessened ... I guess not.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:42 PM
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In regards to Derrick Rose, not only am I rather certain that Memphis did not know about it, I'm rather certain that they had no way of knowing about it.

For starters, it is the admissions office, not the athletic department, that ultimately deals with test scores. No one in athletics can even seem them until the admissions office has validated them. Secondly, it is the Clearing House/Eligibility Center that ultimately says whether or not a player is eligible to play. The NCAA said Rose could play. So, why should Memphis be suspicious of anything?

It wasn't until January (so we're talking his second semester of college after he had already been declared eligible to play by the NCAA, not once, but TWICE) that the ETS red flagged anything. Like the IRS, the ETS runs audits and a computer red flags things that are out of the ordinary such as a huge jump in score, or in the case of Rose, him taking the exam in another city. It's my understanding that they never even suspected him of cheating. The scores were similar. The last time he took it was the highest, but it wasn't alarmingly high, and furthermore his signature matched. They just wanted to know what he was doing in another city.

So, they asked him. Rose didn't respond. They tried asking him again and said that if he didn't respond he ran the risk of having his score invalidated. Rose didn't respond. By this point it was May. When the ETS invalidates a score, they notify every place the student requested the score be sent to, which in this case included Memphis and the NCAA Clearing House. Until that happened, no one had any idea that he was ineligible. Because, well, he WASN'T ineligible.

It was later discovered that the reason Rose was not responding was because the ETS was mailing everything to an address that he no longer lived at. So, if the signatures matched (and it's my understanding that they did), and had he known the ETS was trying to get in touch with him to ask about what he was doing in Detroit (he went to an NBA playoff game), then I don't think his score would have been invalidated.

Furthermore, the NCAA didn't fault Calipari at all. They also said that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules in regards to his eligibility. Hell, they themselves declared him to be eligible.

Calipari has perhaps done a lot of crap, but Derrick Rose should not be on the list. If anything, it's something people get hung up on, which is unfortunate because it's a distraction from some of the other things he may have done that were illegal.

Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
In regards to Derrick Rose, not only am I rather certain that Memphis did not know about it, I'm rather certain that they had no way of knowing about it.

For starters, it is the admissions office, not the athletic department, that ultimately deals with test scores. No one in athletics can even seem them until the admissions office has validated them. Secondly, it is the Clearing House/Eligibility Center that ultimately says whether or not a player is eligible to play. The NCAA said Rose could play. So, why should Memphis be suspicious of anything?

It wasn't until January (so we're talking his second semester of college after he had already been declared eligible to play by the NCAA, not once, but TWICE) that the ETS red flagged anything. Like the IRS, the ETS runs audits and a computer red flags things that are out of the ordinary such as a huge jump in score, or in the case of Rose, him taking the exam in another city. It's my understanding that they never even suspected him of cheating. The scores were similar. The last time he took it was the highest, but it wasn't alarmingly high, and furthermore his signature matched. They just wanted to know what he was doing in another city.

So, they asked him. Rose didn't respond. They tried asking him again and said that if he didn't respond he ran the risk of having his score invalidated. Rose didn't respond. By this point it was May. When the ETS invalidates a score, they notify every place the student requested the score be sent to, which in this case included Memphis and the NCAA Clearing House. Until that happened, no one had any idea that he was ineligible. Because, well, he WASN'T ineligible.

It was later discovered that the reason Rose was not responding was because the ETS was mailing everything to an address that he no longer lived at. So, if the signatures matched (and it's my understanding that they did), and had he known the ETS was trying to get in touch with him to ask about what he was doing in Detroit (he went to an NBA playoff game), then I don't think his score would have been invalidated.

Furthermore, the NCAA didn't fault Calipari at all. They also said that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules in regards to his eligibility. Hell, they themselves declared him to be eligible.

Calipari has perhaps done a lot of crap, but Derrick Rose should not be on the list. If anything, it's something people get hung up on, which is unfortunate because it's a distraction from some of the other things he may have done that were illegal.

Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??

This contradicts what the NCAA investigator said.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.
With a couple of exceptions:

Slick Rick Pitino (and strippers)

Dean and Roy (which class you talking about coach?)
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
This contradicts what the NCAA investigator said.
Not the report that I saw.

Do you have a link??

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I'd like to see it. From what I saw it fell into the category of strict liability, so there wasn't really much of an investigation at all. They never accused Calipari of anything, and they acknowledged that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules in regards to eligibility.

I also think what they got kind of reflects that. If you knowingly use an ineligible player for an entire season, you're pretty much done. You're not just vacating wins and paying money back. You're looking at lengthy postseason bans and probably a reduction of games that you're allowed to play. None of that happened to Memphis. If I'm not mistaken the NCAA even waived the $500 fine per game that you're supposed to pay if you use an ineligible player. They had to pay back the tournament money, but they weren't fined $500 dollars on top of that for every game he played in.

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Old 05-18-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew!

Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.
I also watched the 30 for 30 and this is just wrong. The university did not know during the season. AFTER the season the NCAA brought the information to Memphis and the school admitted to playing an ineligible player.

It's odd they admitted it, because if they didn't.. they likely would have had no issues. The Ncaa cleared him twice! Why wouldnt they play him?
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
I also watched the 30 for 30 and this is just wrong. The university did not know during the season. AFTER the season the NCAA brought the information to Memphis and the school admitted to playing an ineligible player.

It's odd they admitted it, because if they didn't.. they likely would have had no issues. The Ncaa cleared him twice! Why wouldnt they play him?
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Even this is a little misleading. In reality, Memphis basically admitted to playing someone who had their test score invalidated after the fact. Which, they did. But, they also stated that they did not knowingly break any rules, and the NCAA agreed.

I really don't know what else to compare it to, but it would sort of be like going to an art gallery, buying a piece of art and having it authenticated, and then a year later when you go to resell it you learn that it's actually not authentic. You did your due diligence, but still ended up getting screwed.

Had Memphis not admitted it, the same thing would have probably happened. The only way it would have been avoided would have been to get the ETS to revalidate the score. It wasn't their fault. No one really thinks of it as being their fault (well, other than those who simply want to say it's their fault). But, they were still completely S.O.L.
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  #53  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:44 PM
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Found this article on the whole Alex Carmona situation
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:06 PM
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This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina
I think you answered your own question...Memphis vs Louisville or North Carolina
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina
Memphis used a player that had an invalidated test score. What the NCAA did was completely standard.

Louisville is still ongoing. We'll see how it comes out. They did self impose a postseason ban.

North Carolina is still ongoing as well. The problem with UNC is that it's hard to actually nail them for anything because it's more of an accreditation issue than an athletic issue.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:45 PM
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The NCAA is so frustrated with University of North Carolina that they slapped Murray State with 4 years of probation.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:26 PM
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Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player.

Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title.

There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player.

Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title.

There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not.
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Memphis simply conceded they played an ineligible player to try to limit the long term punishment from the NCAA. Calipari was already gone and they figured they should try to limit the damage.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player.

Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title.

There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not.
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It would have been. Without question.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari.
Uh, Memphis?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Uh, Memphis?
But what is so wrong that happened at Memphis? They tried to limit the damage after they knew Calipari was leaving. They made a national championship game and were able to go and cheer for their team. I would be ecstatic if UD got to the Final 4 and the NCAA said UD cheated a few years later.

I know I'm not "Mother Theresa" but I can guarantee I would have fun if UD made it to the Final 4.
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
But what is so wrong that happened at Memphis? They tried to limit the damage after they knew Calipari was leaving. They made a national championship game and were able to go and cheer for their team. I would be ecstatic if UD got to the Final 4 and the NCAA said UD cheated a few years later.

I know I'm not "Mother Theresa" but I can guarantee I would have fun if UD made it to the Final 4.
At least we now know what the C stands for in C-time. Fortunately you are in the minority on rooting on a cheater.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
It would have been. Without question.
So UofL's should be coming down? Right?
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I respect that point of view which you share with them to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to care much about the NCAA rules when they barely/inconsistently enforce them.
Character is what you do when no one is looking. I guess we know what to expect of you now.

Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
I actually don't mind Cal. he essentially wins by understanding the rules of the game and being honest about it.
Maybe we could use the word "forthcoming" instead of "honest".

Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??
OK, lots of "facts" out there brew, but my understanding of the situation is as follows:

1. Rose was one of the top, if not THE top, guard in the class.
2. Duke and other schools really wanted Rose.
3. Other schools mysteriously stopped recruiting the top guard in the class.
4. Cal had no issue recruiting him.
5. Somehow the top guard ended up at a mid-major.

Now you can put those 5 together and draw your own conclusion. I'm not 100% sure they're true but that's what I've gleaned from prior reading on this topic. So if you want to believe Cal is just an innocent victim here, that's fine. Plausible deniability is the key ingredient in Cal's secret sauce.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
So UofL's should be coming down? Right?
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You're confusing technicalities with practicalities. The NCAA is a hyper technical world. UofL is not dealing with an initial eligibility issue where the rules are pretty black and white. They're dealing with a failure to monitor issue. The rules for that typically don't involve vacating wins. The best analogy I can come up with is that Memphis was driving a car without a license, but other than that was breaking no traffic laws. Louisville had a license, but was going 60 in a 25. Those are going to be handled very differently.

Can you name one example where a school used an ineligible player in any sport that did not have to vacate every single game that player appeared in? I can't.

Can you name any failure to monitor cases where teams were not having to vacate wins?? Yes. There are tons of them.

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Old 05-20-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Character is what you do when no one is looking. I guess we know what to expect of you now.



Maybe we could use the word "forthcoming" instead of "honest".



OK, lots of "facts" out there brew, but my understanding of the situation is as follows:

1. Rose was one of the top, if not THE top, guard in the class.
2. Duke and other schools really wanted Rose.
3. Other schools mysteriously stopped recruiting the top guard in the class.
4. Cal had no issue recruiting him.
5. Somehow the top guard ended up at a mid-major.

Now you can put those 5 together and draw your own conclusion. I'm not 100% sure they're true but that's what I've gleaned from prior reading on this topic. So if you want to believe Cal is just an innocent victim here, that's fine. Plausible deniability is the key ingredient in Cal's secret sauce.
Who stopped recruiting Rose prior to him signing his LOI? I'm under the impression that Duke was recruiting him to the very end. But, to be honest, I don't follow recruiting all that closely, so I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything about anyone backing off of him, though. In fact I'm pretty sure that Duke offered him a scholarship, and the only reason they "backed off" of him is because he didn't sign it. Memphis offered him one and he signed that one instead.

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Old 05-20-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Who stopped recruiting Rose prior to him signing his LOI? I'm under the impression that Duke was recruiting him to the very end. But, to be honest, I don't follow recruiting all that closely, so I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything about anyone backing off of him, though. In fact I'm pretty sure that Duke offered him a scholarship, and the only reason they "backed off" of him is because he didn't sign it. Memphis offered him one and he signed that one instead.
You admit you don't follow recruiting all that much yet you are certain about those things you list. Lets see, Duke and coach K is recruiting Rose hard till the end and offers him a ship, but Rose signs with a mid major, yep makes perfect sense....NOT.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
You're confusing technicalities with practicalities. The NCAA is a hyper technical world. UofL is not dealing with an initial eligibility issue where the rules are pretty black and white. They're dealing with a failure to monitor issue. The rules for that typically don't involve vacating wins. The best analogy I can come up with is that Memphis was driving a car without a license, but other than that was breaking no traffic laws. Louisville had a license, but was going 60 in a 25. Those are going to be handled very differently.

Can you name one example where a school used an ineligible player in any sport that did not have to vacate every single game that player appeared in? I can't.

Can you name any failure to monitor cases where teams were not having to vacate wins?? Yes. There are tons of them.
No no no, my argument is a UofL coach PAID for strippers/prostitutes for their recruits. Which would make the said recruits ineligible (receiving improper benefits), which would vacate wins.
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
You admit you don't follow recruiting all that much yet you are certain about those things you list. Lets see, Duke and coach K is recruiting Rose hard till the end and offers him a ship, but Rose signs with a mid major, yep makes perfect sense....NOT.
Memphis had spent three straight years without falling out of the top ten, or something crazy like that. They'd been to back to back Elite Eights. They were selling out an NBA arena for every home game for several years running. They were only a mid-major in the sense that people say Gonzaga is a mid-major. In other words, they were not a mid-major at all. It's not like he went to Arkansas State.

And Gazoo, to his credit, is usually pretty sure of himself. I just asked him to show me where it says Duke backed off of him because that's not how I remember it.

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Old 05-20-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
No no no, my argument is a UofL coach PAID for strippers/prostitutes for their recruits. Which would make the said recruits ineligible (receiving improper benefits), which would vacate wins.
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Improper benefits don't make a player ineligible unless it comes out to more $10,000 for an individual, which no one is saying that it did.

UofL's coach is also suspended for nine games, whereas Calipari was suspended for zero.
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Improper benefits don't make a player ineligible unless it comes out to more $10,000 for an individual, which no one is saying that it did.

.
I guess it would depend on what services those strippers performed.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Memphis had spent three straight years without falling out of the top ten, or something crazy like that.
Rose was there in 07-08.

In 06-07 Memphis was a 2 seed and made a deep run.
In 05-06 Memphis was a 1 seed and made a deep run.
In 04-05 Memphis was in the NIT.
In 03-04 Memphis was a 7 seed.
In 02-03 Memphis was a 7 seed.
In 01-02 Memphis was in the NIT.

Not really any big names in their roster before Rose, at least not guys that lit up the NBA. For example in 06-07 they lit up CUSA "powerhouses" (16-0) + #20 Kentucky at home, but lost to #19 GT at home and @ #9 Arizona. Then they lost to #1 seed tOSU in the tournament. Those were the only 4 ranked teams they played (losing 3) in going 33-4.

Then Rose came.

Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
And Gazoo, to his credit, is usually pretty sure of himself. I just asked him to show me where it says Duke backed off of him because that's not how I remember it.
From the stories I've heard -- and I will freely admit they are stories, not links -- Duke offered but backed off and basically told him "we don't want to embarrass you, but, you're not coming to Duke. We'll leave the offer out there for appearances but you we won't accept it if you try to sign it."
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:34 PM
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I was making the point that thinking a player like Rose would want to go to Memphis over Duke was suspicious due to Memphis being a mid-major is utterly ridiculous.

In the two years before he got to Memphis, they had three players go to the NBA, two of which were drafted in the first round, two top ten finishes, two Elite Eights, a #2 seed, a #1 seed, and were never outside of the top twenty (I went back and saw that they did fall out of the top ten, but they were ranked in the top ten for the majority of the time, and if falling out of the top ten constitutes being a mid-major, then who the hell isn't a mid-major?). They were also selling out an NBA arena rather routinely.

The stories you heard about Duke keeping the offer out there for appearances don't sound very likely. That's really not Duke's style, and it would have kept them from being able to sign someone else in his place because it would have appeared they were holding a roster spot for him.
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina
Nothing on UNC academic fraud, but Richmond kids suspended for doing fantasy sports. NCAA is a joke.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:05 PM
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There are a lot of posters here acting holier than thou when it comes to cheating who also make excuses for our players when they are found to have committed a violation requiring removal from the school...
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
There are a lot of posters here acting holier than thou when it comes to cheating who also make excuses for our players when they are found to have committed a violation requiring removal from the school...
That would depend if they were removed through Title IX where due process is denied or if they were caught red handed and proscuded by police. No one has a problem if due process is afforded all parties.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
The stories you heard about Duke keeping the offer out there for appearances don't sound very likely. That's really not Duke's style, and it would have kept them from being able to sign someone else in his place because it would have appeared they were holding a roster spot for him.
Huh? You're saying a college can only offer as many scholarships as they have open roster spots? No, of course not. They could have easily left the roster spot open, the offer open, and then recruited someone else. Then the press release "we couldn't wait any longer for Rose to sign, we had to fill out our roster." That seems unreasonably unlikely to you??

If so I offer up as counter evidence every school in the whole of the NCAA.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Huh? You're saying a college can only offer as many scholarships as they have open roster spots? No, of course not. They could have easily left the roster spot open, the offer open, and then recruited someone else. Then the press release "we couldn't wait any longer for Rose to sign, we had to fill out our roster." That seems unreasonably unlikely to you??

If so I offer up as counter evidence every school in the whole of the NCAA.
I'm saying that if a college is after a high end player and there is an offer out there it's typically harder to continue to recruit other players then if the offer were not out there.

And for DUKE to do that, yes, it seems unreasonably unlikely. At the very least I've never known them to do anything like that before. I do not see Duke leaving an offer out there to someone they have no intention of actually signing. If you're going to site stories, then I'll also site one. I think Duke was irritated when they didn't get him, and was secretly annoyed at how Cal's relation ship with Leon Rose and William Wesley steered him toward Memphis. In addition to not thinking that Duke would leave an offer out there to someone they did not intend to sign, I don't think they'd be annoyed if the player they didn't intend to sign didn't sign with them. But, again, like you I'm freely admitting that as a story...but it's one that I happen to believe even though I don't know it for sure to be true.

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Old 05-22-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I'm saying that if a college is after a high end player and there is an offer out there it's typically harder to continue to recruit other players then if the offer were not out there.

And for DUKE to do that, yes, it seems unreasonably unlikely. At the very least I've never known them to do anything like that before. I do not see Duke leaving an offer out there to someone they have no intention of actually signing. If you're going to site stories, then I'll also site one. I think Duke was irritated when they didn't get him, and was secretly annoyed at how Cal's relation ship with Leon Rose and William Wesley steered him toward Memphis. In addition to not thinking that Duke would leave an offer out there to someone they did not intend to sign, I don't think they'd be annoyed if the player they didn't intend to sign didn't sign with them. But, again, like you I'm freely admitting that as a story...but it's one that I happen to believe even though I don't know it for sure to be true.
So not only is this going totally off topic of Flyer basketball, it is now a place for creative fiction writing.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So not only is this going totally off topic of Flyer basketball, it is now a place for creative fiction writing.
How is that creative fiction writing? That accounting of the story is probably what really happened.

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Old 05-23-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it.
Yes. I would.

Every time I would comment on the trip/run some fan from some other school would tell me we did it while cheating. Then I would remember that I was ****ed that I watched a program that was cheating to get where they wanted to go.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Yes. I would.

Every time I would comment on the trip/run some fan from some other school would tell me we did it while cheating. Then I would remember that I was ****ed that I watched a program that was cheating to get where they wanted to go.
Like I said when I wear my dayton hat and someone yells, go flyers, I smile and feel proud. If we cheated then they'd yell cheaters and I wouldn't feel proud, that's if I still wore the hat. Thank God C-Time is in the majority. Go flyers
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How is that creative fiction writing? That accounting of the story is probably what really happened.
So your factual defense is "probably".
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Like I said when I wear my dayton hat and someone yells, go flyers, I smile and feel proud. If we cheated then they'd yell cheaters and I wouldn't feel proud, that's if I still wore the hat. Thank God C-Time is in the majority. Go flyers
Believe you mean "miniority"
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So your factual defense is "probably".
Are you actually trying to argue something, or are you just interjecting for the sake of interjecting?

My position is that Memphis didn't know and had no way of knowing. None of the facts dispute that.

-Duke offered Rose a scholarship.
-At no point did Duke resend the offer.
-Rose was declared initially eligible by the NCAA
-Rose was declared eligible to play the second semester by both Memphis and the NCAA
-The ETS invalidated Rose's test score AFTER the season
-Memphis admitted they used a player who had his test score invalidated, but did not knowingly break any rules.
-The NCAA agreed that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules. Furthermore, they did not fine Memphis $500 for each game that Rose played in. I think it's safe to assume that the NCAA would not have waived this if they felt Memphis knew he was ineligible.
-The NCAA did not charge Calipari with anything.

So, saying that Memphis knew, or that Calipari knew, or that Duke knew but for some reason never rescinded their offer, cannot be supported with facts. Only suppositions. Some of which are wilder than others.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Are you actually trying to argue something, or are you just interjecting for the sake of interjecting?

My position is that Memphis didn't know and had no way of knowing. None of the facts dispute that.

-Duke offered Rose a scholarship.
-At no point did Duke resend the offer.
-Rose was declared initially eligible by the NCAA
-Rose was declared eligible to play the second semester by both Memphis and the NCAA
-The ETS invalidated Rose's test score AFTER the season
-Memphis admitted they used a player who had his test score invalidated, but did not knowingly break any rules.
-The NCAA agreed that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules. Furthermore, they did not fine Memphis $500 for each game that Rose played in. I think it's safe to assume that the NCAA would not have waived this if they felt Memphis knew he was ineligible.
-The NCAA did not charge Calipari with anything.

So, saying that Memphis knew, or that Calipari knew, or that Duke knew but for some reason never rescinded their offer, cannot be supported with facts. Only suppositions. Some of which are wilder than others.
Arguing that this Calipari thread is way off topic and needs to be moved.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Arguing that this Calipari thread is way off topic and needs to be moved.
Way to dodge the question! Lol!
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:16 PM
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89 posts and maybe a few could be stretched to apply to UD.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:26 AM
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It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
89 posts and maybe a few could be stretched to apply to UD.

You have the option of not clicking on the thread and reading it. It's not like the thread title was UD in 2018... thread title is pretty clear.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc
Which program was/is dirtier?

Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari?
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc
If your point is that the those two players could have been edited out, then most would agree. However, if "the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever", you're way off base. I think most people are satisfied how this was handled. It was identified, investigated, and handled. Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships.

The balance of the team rallied under a young coach to produce an exciting 2nd half of the season basketball.

Why would anyone want to "erase" that?
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
Which program was/is dirtier?

Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari?
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Dayton under Archie. What has Cal done bad at UK?
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
..... Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships.

.......
IIRC, at least one of them was very remorseful, admitted that he screwed up big time and squandered a huge opportunity at UD, finished college at a D2 school, and is quite likely a productive citizen. People can learn from mistakes and move on.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
If your point is that the those two players could have been edited out, then most would agree. However, if "the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever", you're way off base. I think most people are satisfied how this was handled. It was identified, investigated, and handled. Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships.

The balance of the team rallied under a young coach to produce an exciting 2nd half of the season basketball.

Why would anyone want to "erase" that?
I don't think the video should be edited at all and I don't want to erase any of it. My post was intended to be sarcastic because some people act as though UD basketball is some bastion of perfection where nobody breaks any rules or does anything wrong.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES View Post
Which program was/is dirtier?

Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari?
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Players don't stay at UK long enough to make a comparison.

Archie had some players behave badly on their own time. There may be questions of how those issues were handled internally, but I don't recall any question of program behavior related to NCAA rules.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
Players don't stay at UK long enough to make a comparison.

Archie had some players behave badly on their own time. There may be questions of how those issues were handled internally, but I don't recall any question of program behavior related to NCAA rules.
Calipari had players behave badly on their own time at UMASS and Memphis. Camby took money from an agent on his own time and Rose maybe falsified his SAT score on his own time . Calipari has had no NCAA violations.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't think the video should be edited at all and I don't want to erase any of it. My post was intended to be sarcastic because some people act as though UD basketball is some bastion of perfection where nobody breaks any rules or does anything wrong.
You're actually making our argument for us and you don't even know it.

You obviously don't think that no one at UD will ever make a mistake. That's a childish position. The question is how the university reacts to mistakes.

Here's why Rose is different from Dumb and Dumber: they were kicked off the team and the glory came in spite of them not because of them. Had we gone to the E8 because of them I would feel very icky about it.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
You obviously don't think that no one(ANYONE) at UD will ever make a mistake. That's a childish position. The question is how the university reacts to mistakes.
If stealing from other students was the only thing those two had done to get kicked off I might agree with you. They had done numerous other things prior to that UD had managed to keep quiet. This incident simply couldn't be covered up.

To me having players committing actual crimes is much more embarrassing than breaking NCAA rules.
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