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03-15-2015, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago
I will say this, Dancecard knows shizzle no one else knows..amazing
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Actually they were pretty bad year missing 3 teams. Even Lunardi did better than Dancecard. In reality only the last 4-5 spots are in dispute and to miss 3 isn't very good.
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03-15-2015, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottyExpress
Edit: Don't understand why everyone is so upset. Ok, maybe we had a better resume than some of the teams not playing in the First Four. So maybe we got the short end of the stick. In this case the short end is pretty short, covered in Vaseline, and isn't all that wide. We are going to be fine, trust me.
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The issue is the fact that UD has an extra game to actually get in to the field that really counts...the are at a disadvantage in the long run due to depth. They have done it before, but the extra game, home or not, hurts UD.
The other thing that sucks...is if by chance they don't get the W Wednesday...all the talk will be about UD losing a FF game at home....if they win...it will be expected. There is nothing positive that comes from playing in a FF game at home...unless you are just a UD fan that wants the opportunity to watch the boys at home one more time. IMO...the NCAA wants UD to lose....as others have stated....I would be willing to bet that the NCAA had this figured out before today...I don't care what in the hell anyone says regarding the selection process....the corrupt NCAA in me thinks that reps from the UD camp were invited to see the process in an attempt to justify that there isn't any funny business that goes on...I don't buy it. There is no way that UD gets jobbed like this after finished where they did in the conference...regular season and tournament.
The UCLA argument proves the point...
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03-15-2015, 10:39 PM
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I just watched Katz interview with the selection committee chairman. It blows my mind that Indiana was safely in the field and we were the last to make it. He defended it with the eye test and the "playing in a tougher conference". Even Indiana fans thought they were definitively out.
This years selections were heavily weighted towards big football conference schools who lost a lot and had poor RPI numbers.
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03-15-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I just watched Katz interview with the selection committee chairman. It blows my mind that Indiana was safely in the field and we were the last to make it. He defended it with the eye test and the "playing in a tougher conference". Even Indiana fans thought they were definitively out.
This years selections were heavily weighted towards big football conference schools who lost a lot and had poor RPI numbers.
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Yeah, but they'll sell lots of tickets to those First Round games, and the TV ratings will be really good, and THAT (not rewarding the best, most-deserving teams) is what REALLY matters, right?
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03-15-2015, 10:54 PM
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And BTW - kudos to Katz and all the other hoops experts who are calling-out The Committee on these inconsistencies.
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03-15-2015, 10:56 PM
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NCAA selection committee, the new FIFA.
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03-15-2015, 11:00 PM
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Whether you agree/disagree with the committee decision, I think it took guts to give Dayton a home game. They will take a lot of grief for this (different than the grief you're all providing) relative to the fairness of the placement. It really puts Boise State at a disadvantage.
It would have been far simpler to stick UCLA or Texas in Dayton and been done with it. The lower bowl was already sold out (so it looks good on TV) and the whole tournament financial model is based on TV rights, not ticket sales.
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03-15-2015, 11:01 PM
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General of the Air Force
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NCAA = No Clue About Anything
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03-15-2015, 11:07 PM
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I was mad about the seed, I had to do a double take in disbelief. All I know is that team has already overcome adversity, this will give them a chip on their shoulder to tell the committee that we not only belong but we are going to make some noise. Sure its nice that we get close games geographically but this team is hungry regardless. Call me a homer and a dreamer but UD is going to the sweet 16.
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03-15-2015, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
IMO...the NCAA wants UD to lose....
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Great post. I'm trying to figure out why the NCAA would want Dayton to lose in the First Four though?
Originally Posted by shocka43
I would be willing to bet that the NCAA had this figured out before today...I don't care what in the hell anyone says regarding the selection process....the corrupt NCAA in me thinks that reps from the UD camp were invited to see the process in an attempt to justify that there isn't any funny business that goes on...I don't buy it. There is no way that UD gets jobbed like this after finished where they did in the conference...regular season and tournament.
The UCLA argument proves the point...
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I tend to agree. Its like, "Come and see. The process is so thorough and transparent." But then when asked how UCLA could be placed higher than Dayton, all the shadeball Chairman Barnes could come up with was basically the eye test and some vague generic comments about UCLA playing well lately. Lame.
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03-15-2015, 11:17 PM
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OK, some crooked administrators got rich at the expense of the public's confidence in the integrity of the NCAA and amateur sports in general. All I can say to the Selection Committee members is, "When you get it, don't spend it all in one place."
Now. On with the games.
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03-15-2015, 11:21 PM
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Sorry, Field, but I must disagree. IMHO, it was a gutless move on the part of the committee to do what they did. They put our Flyers in a no-win situation. If we win, the narrative will be "Of course, they won - it was on their home court." If we lose, that will change to "See? They couldn't even win a game on their own home court!" And they also made Boise State a poster child for injustice in the selection process, which was also a gutless maneuver. Don't know what BSU did to p!$$-off The Committee.
And re ticket sales, you're wrong about them already being all sold-out. It might be a given that they will sell out, but 30 minutes ago, there were still "all-session" tickets available in the 200 level.
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03-15-2015, 11:22 PM
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No disrespect to BU, this post is not about them. I hope we win by 100 and make a mockery out of the selection committee.
Unless of course that is the plan. Maybe Dayton has such a strangle hold on the First Four that the NCAA needed a way to "force" a second venue to host half (or all) of the games, and this is their orchestrated "see I told you so" moment.
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03-15-2015, 11:25 PM
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there should never be an eye-test. Complete BS. It is simply a way to introduce more bias into a situation that already has a ton of it.
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03-15-2015, 11:26 PM
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well I will never buy first four tickets again. I went the last two years, not this year but I am now finished.
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03-15-2015, 11:30 PM
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Oh, how I would love to win and then beat Providence in Columbus. Dayton, Columbus, Syracuse, NY and then Indianapolis. Our path to the national championship is all in our backyard.
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03-15-2015, 11:33 PM
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FlyerGuyer, I have a "conspiracy theory" for you. Maybe the NCAA didn't make-out so well financially with UD's run to the Elite Eight last year, and they wanted to make sure it would be as hard as hard could be for that to happen again. Does this make good sense? Not really. But neither did the selection/seeding process, so in a bizarre way, this helps me "get even".
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03-15-2015, 11:35 PM
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I'll say it again... this seed is the best chance to make the Final Four. We avoid 2 seed until the Sweet 16 and 1 seed until Elite 8. Probably one of those will lose before we'd have to face them. The 11/6/3 seed games would be tough, of course, but it wouldn't take a miracle to win. If one of the 1/2 seeds gets upset beforehand, we can make the Final Four while only requiring one miracle.
But a whole lot of luck, too...
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03-15-2015, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
No disrespect to BU, this post is not about them. I hope we win by 100 and make a mockery out of the selection committee.
Unless of course that is the plan. Maybe Dayton has such a strangle hold on the First Four that the NCAA needed a way to "force" a second venue to host half (or all) of the games, and this is their orchestrated "see I told you so" moment.
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Interesting theory, Gazoo, and one that may not be all that far-fetched.
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03-15-2015, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
FlyerGuyer, I have a "conspiracy theory" for you. Maybe the NCAA didn't make-out so well financially with UD's run to the Elite Eight last year, and they wanted to make sure it would be as hard as hard could be for that to happen again. Does this make good sense? Not really.
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It doesn't have to make sense. It's your personal eye test, so that's all the evidence you need.
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03-15-2015, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
Oh, how I would love to win and then beat Providence in Columbus. Dayton, Columbus, Syracuse, NY and then Indianapolis. Our path to the national championship is all in our backyard.
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I hadn't even thought about the Sweet Sixteen site, but the way you lay it out provides an interesting parallel to last year, when our NCAA journey took us through teams from Columbus & Syracuse. This year, if our guys are to repeat the journey, they have to win in those cities. Hope there's some karma there!
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03-16-2015, 12:41 AM
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"eye-test" and "picking up steam" - The new NCAA tournament selection criteria.
There were 116 brackets on bracketmatrix. Dayton was in every one of them. And to think we were a UConn win away from not making the tournament. What makes the committee smarter than all 116 bracketologists?
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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03-16-2015, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
I'll say it again... this seed is the best chance to make the Final Four. We avoid 2 seed until the Sweet 16 and 1 seed until Elite 8. Probably one of those will lose before we'd have to face them. The 11/6/3 seed games would be tough, of course, but it wouldn't take a miracle to win. If one of the 1/2 seeds gets upset beforehand, we can make the Final Four while only requiring one miracle.
But a whole lot of luck, too...
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I completely agree with you Arrow, pretty much said as much in my earlier post. Once everyone gets over the fact that we weren't seeded as high as we thought we were going to be, we'll see that this as a positive. Who cares what our seed is, we still have to win to advance. This sets us up for a deep run in the tournament. No team higher than a 3 till the Sweet 16. We play on our home court to gain some momentum, then play two games in Columbus (our back yard). Then two games in NY and then we return to our back yard at Indy. The extra game might be a plus for us, JS and the boys get to play one more game at the friendly confines of the Arena building confidence. 3 straight games in the Dance basically at home is a major plus. Two road games between us and the Final Four. Who could ask for anything more???
Edit: I mean really, would you rather be playing Kentucky in the second round just so we could have the satisfaction of saying we were an 8 seed??? I remember us being a four seed once upon a time and that didn't work out for us very well. Just win baby. No one cares what your seed is, and if they do its just because they want to root for the underdog. We are the underdog. We are playing close to home. We are in the tournament for the second year in a row with a very good chance of advancing. Enjoy it.
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03-16-2015, 01:49 AM
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Just remember George Mason went from First Four to Final Four
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03-16-2015, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottyExpress
Who cares what our seed is, we still have to win to advance. This sets us up for a deep run in the tournament. No team higher than a 3 till the Sweet 16. We play on our home court to gain some momentum, then play two games in Columbus (our back yard).
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Disagree on several points
The first four requires us to play an extra game
We only go 7 deep and to make the Sweet 16 will require playing 6 games in 10 days
We seemed tired against VCU so an extra day or two of rest would have been better for the team in my opinion.
May be our backyard but if we win Wed. OSU fans will be hostile towards UD (think x in the First Four last year)
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03-16-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi
Disagree on several points
The first four requires us to play an extra game
We only go 7 deep and to make the Sweet 16 will require playing 6 games in 10 days
We seemed tired against VCU so an extra day or two of rest would have been better for the team in my opinion.
May be our backyard but if we win Wed. OSU fans will be hostile towards UD (think x in the First Four last year)
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I completely agree. I didn't care about seeding for Dayton. I was hoping for a late Friday game so our 7 guys could get a lot of rest. Instead, the Flyers get the least amount of rest possible.
I hope the Flyers win, but the deck has been stacked against them.
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03-16-2015, 09:34 AM
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Not true, udisit19. If we win Wednesday night, we'd play the last game in C-bus on Friday night, with a tip-off scheduled for close to 10:00 PM. But that also means @ 40-hour turnaround if we make it to the Round of 32 on Sunday.
But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. We have to win Wednesday first.
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03-16-2015, 11:08 AM
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"When the last at-large team to make the NCAA tournament learns it has received a bid, the reaction video is typically replete with hugs, fist pumps and a euphoric roar.
That wasn't the case this year because the last at-large team in the field had no idea it was even on the bubble.
Dayton's quizzical reaction to discovering it will be playing in the First Four on Wednesday night is perfect since neither the Flyers nor most college hoops pundits expected them to be in any danger of missing the NCAA tournament. Their average seeding among the almost 100 projections charted by the website BracketMatrix.com was 8.81.
Things got more surprising for Dayton when the NCAA released the selection committee's true seedings and revealed that the Flyers were somehow the very last team in the field of 68. That means Dayon would have been the team dumped in favor of UConn had the Huskies won the American Athletic Conference title game on Sunday and stolen a bid from an at-large hopeful.
It's understandable that Dayton wasn't pleased with its seeding because the Flyers had no business being one of the last teams in. They boast seven RPI top 100 victories, a top 40 KenPom ranking, a top 30 RPI and only one loss to a team outside the RPI top 100, a resume that compares favorably to teams like Georgia, UCLA and Indiana that are safely in the main field."
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-...060730626.html
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03-16-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
???
Really? The OSU fans will cheer for UD won't they?
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My wife went to OSU and she says Columbus doesn't care about OSU basketball and will cheer for UD.
My son goes to OSU and says Columbus wants OSU to be the #1 bball team in Ohio and will cheer against UC, X and UD...
So we'll just have to wait and see how much the scalpers are charging and how much UD fans are willing to pay to pack the Nationwide Center...assuming Pollard and Co take care of business on Wednesday.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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03-16-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
???
Really? The OSU fans will cheer for UD won't they?
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After our newspaper said "THE University of Dayton?" I wouldn't count on it.
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03-16-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
My wife went to OSU and she says Columbus doesn't care about OSU basketball and will cheer for UD
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OSU ticket season holders got first shot before they went on sale to the public so not sure how many causal fans in Columbus got tickets
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03-16-2015, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bhflyer5
After our newspaper said "THE University of Dayton?" I wouldn't count on it.
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Ohio St. has their own worries with VCU - again, another NCAA committee decision, purely at random again I'm sure... I can almost hear the rhetoric...'we can't put the Flyers against tOSU AGAIN, what would that do for UD Basketball if they beat tOSU AGAIN? Let's see how another A10 team compares to tOSU - how about VCU? They just beat UD today by 6. Let's see if last year was a fluke...'
Why can't the NCAA use computerized data from now on - so that we all agree to computer formulas that every university scrutinizes for accuracy, the conference tourney champions get auto bids and everyone else falls in line as it stands at the end of the regular season with respect to computerized rankings. That would eliminate the "eye" test and other subjective BS as well as old biased men trying to protect the "integrity" of the tourney.
I've got my money on VCU for the record...
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03-16-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer Dave
The NCAA Selection Committee needs to get glasses for each committee member, so they can actually see, when they do the eye test!
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I was thinking maybe we should just open this up and all teams get to submit a highlight reel so they can each get a 5 minute "eye test". I have a real hard time justifying an "eye test" of any kind being part of the evaluation process.
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03-16-2015, 11:56 AM
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It was a money grab pure and simple, they went for the "Name Brand Programs", Indiana, UCLA, Texas ect.
Hell they probably would have picked Syracuse if they were eligible, and I'm dead serious.
After all they beat Louisville and at Notre Dame, they were trending up, 3-4 in their last 7 games!
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03-16-2015, 12:13 PM
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UD was fixed on one of the two 11 lines last year. I wonder what kept the committee from slotting them in one of those spots this year? How does our body of work compare with Texas, UCLA, or the other three 11 seed first rounders? Or for that matter how do we compare with the 4 #10s. I know Davidson is one of the 10s...and Indiana, GA, and Ohio State. I know the MSP and Barnes yesterday pointed out that they would not hesitate to place Dayton in the first round in their own gym based on a policy they had discussed regarding same early on. But still, we are in. The first four out have to be just beside themselves in anger and disbelief.
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03-16-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Unless of course that is the plan. Maybe Dayton has such a strangle hold on the First Four that the NCAA needed a way to "force" a second venue to host half (or all) of the games, and this is their orchestrated "see I told you so" moment.
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UD has the First Four until 2018 - I can EASILY see the NCAA using this as an example of how unfair it is to the rest of the field to have a team play on their home court and deciding to move the FF to a neutral site in 2019. Like Indianapolis.
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03-16-2015, 12:52 PM
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BINGO ... AlumUD!
"Like Indianapolis." which just happens to be the home of the NCAA
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03-16-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AlumUD
UD has the First Four until 2018 - I can EASILY see the NCAA using this as an example of how unfair it is to the rest of the field to have a team play on their home court and deciding to move the FF to a neutral site in 2019. Like Indianapolis.
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at this point I no longer care ... I won't be going anymore.
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03-16-2015, 01:02 PM
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I will not even look at a bracket this year - no less fill one out. And I will likely not watch on TV either.... this "committee" has turned it into a joke..... pi$$ on em!
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03-16-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottyExpress
I completely agree with you Arrow, pretty much said as much in my earlier post. Once everyone gets over the fact that we weren't seeded as high as we thought we were going to be, we'll see that this as a positive. Who cares what our seed is, we still have to win to advance. This sets us up for a deep run in the tournament. No team higher than a 3 till the Sweet 16. We play on our home court to gain some momentum, then play two games in Columbus (our back yard). Then two games in NY and then we return to our back yard at Indy. The extra game might be a plus for us, JS and the boys get to play one more game at the friendly confines of the Arena building confidence. 3 straight games in the Dance basically at home is a major plus. Two road games between us and the Final Four. Who could ask for anything more???
Edit: I mean really, would you rather be playing Kentucky in the second round just so we could have the satisfaction of saying we were an 8 seed??? I remember us being a four seed once upon a time and that didn't work out for us very well. Just win baby. No one cares what your seed is, and if they do its just because they want to root for the underdog. We are the underdog. We are playing close to home. We are in the tournament for the second year in a row with a very good chance of advancing. Enjoy it.
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The problem isn't the seed. The problem is that UD now has to win 3 games to get to the Sweet Sixteen. If you're counting I believe that's 5 games in a week. UD got the shaft on the first four, especially given the weakness' of the other teams that were being considered (UCLA).
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03-16-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67
I will not even look at a bracket this year - no less fill one out. And I will likely not watch on TV either.... this "committee" has turned it into a joke..... pi$$ on em!
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Same here. I've lost all interest in watching any of this tournament, with the exception of the Flyer games. They are not getting my support this year. I realize that pretty much means nothing, but it makes me feel better.
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03-16-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo
Same here. I've lost all interest in watching any of this tournament, with the exception of the Flyer games. They are not getting my support this year. I realize that pretty much means nothing, but it makes me feel better.
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I might watch a select few teams besides our Flyers, just to watch the train wrecks that the Committee overvalued go up in flames. Then, I can send an e-mail to Chairman Barnes and his cronies with copies of the box score(s) and a simple comment "9 (or 10, or 8, or...) Seed, huh?"
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03-16-2015, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bhflyer5
After our newspaper said "THE University of Dayton?" I wouldn't count on it.
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I've gone to NCAA tournament games every year since OSU's 1999 Final Four run, in cities all over the Midwest and Southeast (annual tradition with my pops). I also live in Columbus and have for most of my life so I feel like I can put a little perspective on this potential issue - assuming we win on Wednesday night. 3 points I have to make:
1. I think the quote above (not to pick on it) underestimates the power of the Flyer Faithful. If we can pack about 90% of the stadium in Memphis against 1-seed powerhouse Florida, an eight hour drive from Dayton, we certainly will pack Nationwide with a majority of fans wearing Red and Blue. Even if season ticket holders had first opportunity to buy as someone else said, they probably didn't buy many. The Schott is rarely sold out except for big games, and their season ticket holders mainly care about OSU basketball - they're not what I would call basketball fans.
2. At every single NCAA site that I have been to it doesn't matter who is playing - teams root for the underdog. Sure, each team has its quadrant of fans in the lower bowl, but the rest of the stadium tends to be basketball fans in general just hoping for a good game. Sure, a majority of those fans in Columbus may be Buckeye fans, but that doesn't mean they won't root for the Flyers. I've seen fans in Indianapolis root for Nevada against Illinois. I've seen fans in Birmingham root against Alabama. I've seen fans in Knoxville root for the Buckeyes against Auburn.
3. The mood in Columbus with regard to the Flyers is not one of hatred or disdain. I'm going to step out on a limb and bet that most OSU bball fans have largely forgotten last year's DDN headline. Most people when I'm out at a bar are rooting for the Flyers, even with last year's victory over them. We're not on that "hatred level" for Buckeyes fans along the lines of X, Kentucky, or Duke. They still look at us as the cute little brother who happens to be having a couple of good years in a row. So I think if the Flyers are in a position to pull some more upsets, OSU fans will root for them.
I'll be in Columbus cheering the Flyers on when they get there. Frankly, I'm shocked the committee gave them the opportunity to play the first three tourney games within 60 miles from home. My dad and I bought tickets a few months ago and I thought there was no chance I'd be watching the Flyers lose. Considering Providence doesn't have a huge fan base and Oklahoma fans have to travel long distance to get here, I think from a crowd perspective we cannot be in a better position to get back to the Sweet 16. Hopefully this team proves me right.
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03-16-2015, 02:33 PM
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03-16-2015, 02:41 PM
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I haven't read the whole thread, or even most of it, but I get the gist of it.
The selection of UCLA is, without a doubt, the craziest thing I've ever seen a selection committee do. I never agree with everything, but at the very least I can almost always see some sort of rational thought process as to why they did what they did. UCLA is both grossly undeserving, and grossly unqualified. In addition to looking terrible on paper, they don't look good on the court. They've taken teams with weak credentials before, but at least most of them looked like NCAA Tournament caliber teams when you watched them play. UCLA doesn't. They won 20 games. 16 of those were at home. 15 of those were against sub 100 RPI teams. They had three losses to teams outside the top 100 vs five wins against the top 100. That is one of the weakest cases I have ever seen of a team that actually got in. Had that been a non-power conference team, everyone would have accused them of running up their record against weak teams.
Scott Barnes said that they liked how UCLA finished strong, or something to that effect. UCLA was 5-4 in their last nine games. They beat USC twice, Washington and Washington State. All of those teams are terrible, and USC in particular is abysmal. That's not "finishing strong." They actually struggled in their win at home against Washington State.
There were reasons to leave Temple and Miami out, so I don't particularly feel sorry for them, but there were also reasons to take them. In the case of Miami, I thought there were more reasons to take them than to leave them out. There was no reason at all to take UCLA. None. The idea that they're in the field at all, much less in ahead of all the temas they're ahead of, is completely ridiculous.
So, what if they win?? They could win the whole thing and it won't change my opinion. It's about who earned the spots, and they clearly didn't. All UCLA did was prove they could win at home against teams outside the top 100.
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03-16-2015, 02:50 PM
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So since we're the last team in as the "48th seed" and Boise St is technically 47th, does that mean we're the away team at home? smh... this is ridiculous to say the least.
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03-16-2015, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
There were reasons to leave Temple and Miami out, so I don't particularly feel sorry for them, but there were also reasons to take them. In the case of Miami, I thought there were more reasons to take them than to leave them out. There was no reason at all to take UCLA. None. The idea that they're in the field at all, much less in ahead of all the temas they're ahead of, is completely ridiculous.
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Miami? Rpi 64, 71 SOS.
Seems like a very tough sell IMO.
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03-16-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I haven't read the whole thread, or even most of it, but I get the gist of it.
The selection of UCLA is, without a doubt, the craziest thing I've ever seen .... It's about who earned the spots, and they clearly didn't. All UCLA did was prove they could win at home against teams outside the top 100.
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What are your uncensored thoughts on X being a 6-seed and UD being a play-in??
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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03-16-2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bhflyer5
So since we're the last team in as the "48th seed" and Boise St is technically 47th, does that mean we're the away team at home? smh... this is ridiculous to say the least.
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Yes. Archie was just interviewed on ESPN and mentioned that they will not be playing on their court, will be the away team, and will be in the visitors locker.
Have to say that Katz tried to get a certain response in his questioning, as far as having to play in the play-in, but Archie handled it in a very classy manner. Basically said they will not hear him criticize the seeding, just that they are happy to be playing in the tournament for the second year in a row and that he is really proud of his team. Class act all the way.
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03-16-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
How do you know that? Have you asked them?
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I don't know that.
No, I haven't asked them.
But, how can 8 other A10 teams have a better SOS than UD this year?
And how can UD have only the 6th best OOC SOS in the A10 this year?
Why were 5 other A10 teams able to play a tougher OOC schedule this year than we were?
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03-16-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottyExpress
I completely agree with you Arrow, pretty much said as much in my earlier post. Once everyone gets over the fact that we weren't seeded as high as we thought we were going to be, we'll see that this as a positive. Who cares what our seed is, we still have to win to advance.
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And we have to win an extra game to be in the field...
One of the big issues is that the NCAA tries to sell the selection process as transparent and without bias. Bull crap. They invite media types and bloggers to participate in a multi-day event to show this "transparency" and how it is a democratic process with high end computers making some of the decisions easier, etc...IMO that open door policy to show how things are done are a farce....and only done to try and appease those who know what they are talking about on the outside of the selection process. You can't tell me that representatives from UD media/blogging were invited to participate and miraculously we end up in the most controversial seed in a long time....all hoping that those who did participate would defend the process...that is ultimately bogus?
I am not a conspiracy theory guy...but if this doesn't smell for some reason I don't know what does......either wanting to show home court advantage does/doesn't mean anything for first four bids in the future...they want revenue in Dayton and are going to get a for sure sellout, they want Dayton to win/lose to fill up the teleprompters for a few days...insert reason here ___________. This is a slap in the face to Dayton, a difficult pill to swallow for Boise...etc...I liked Hal's article and UD telling the NCAA to pound sand and pull the First Four from Dayton...we know it won't happen...as money talks...but I would slap them in the face and force the NCAA to find a host site that will pay the bills outside of Dayton...for an extended period of time greater than one year. You won't find it.
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03-16-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
What are your uncensored thoughts on X being a 6-seed and UD being a play-in??
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After Xavier won the two conference tournament games, I was expecting them to get either a #6 or a #7. It completely changed the complexion of the profile once they added two wins against ranked teams away from home.
UD, on the other hand, is totally ridiculous. If this were a debate class and you were given the assignment of arguing that Dayton should be out, I guess you could do it, but you'd really have to stretch, and you couldn't really make an unbiased and objective argument. The idea that they would have missed the field entirely had UConn won that game, which they almost did, and UCLA would have been safely in is....well....I'm just not a good enough wordsmith to properly phrase how utterly ridiculous I think that is.
Dayton only had one really bad loss. As far as their wins go, they didn't have any #1 chart topping singles, but they did have enough decent stuff on their profile to put together a pretty good set list. Okay, bad analogy, but they belonged in the field, they belonged inside the First Four, and they sure as hell belonged in ahead of UCLA, as did about ten other teams who were left out.
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03-16-2015, 04:56 PM
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NCAA Tournament Selection Committee:
Joe Alleva, director of athletics, Louisiana State University
Joe Castiglione, director of athletics, Oklahoma University
Janet Cone, director of athletics, University of North Carolina at Asheville
Tom Holmoe, director of athletics, Brigham Young University
Mark Hollis, director of athletics, Michigan State University
Judy MacLeod, executive associate commissioner, Conference USA
Bernard Muir, director of athletics, Stanford University
Bruce Rasmussen, director of athletics, Creighton University
Peter Roby, director of athletics, Northeastern University
Could it be that the LSU guy had an influence on them getting in the field as a bubble?
How about the Standford guy saying, "Hell, the Bruins looked awfully good when they beat us! They're gaining steam!"
The MSU guy advocating for IU?
How about the OU guy advocating for Texas and Oklahoma State?
How about the Creighton guy advocating for Xavier being so highly seeded?
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03-16-2015, 06:53 PM
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An Episode of Curb Your Enthusiam?
Larry David and wife are invited to an upscale exclusive party with tux required. Shortly after arrival the hosts greet them with an an insulting comment. Larry blows his stack and insults them back and is shown the door. The role of Larry in our play may be played by Hal McCoy who suggests that UD tell the NCAA to "Throw the First Four in the Miami river."
Fortunately the Dayton representatives (Archie and players) showed much more class than the hosts of the party in their responses. They understand that the Dance hosts will have two tournaments next year which may be of interest to the UD Program.
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03-16-2015, 07:41 PM
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[QUOTE=bhflyer5;400611]NCAA Tournament Selection Committee:
Joe Alleva, director of athletics, Louisiana State University
Joe Castiglione, director of athletics, Oklahoma University
Janet Cone, director of athletics, University of North Carolina at Asheville
Tom Holmoe, director of athletics, Brigham Young University
Mark Hollis, director of athletics, Michigan State University
Judy MacLeod, executive associate commissioner, Conference USA
Bernard Muir, director of athletics, Stanford University
Bruce Rasmussen, director of athletics, Creighton University
Peter Roby, director of athletics, Northeastern University
QUOTE]
When was the last time UD had someone on the committee? Frericks??
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03-16-2015, 07:51 PM
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[QUOTE=N2663R;400653]
Originally Posted by bhflyer5
NCAA Tournament Selection Committee:
Joe Alleva, director of athletics, Louisiana State University
Joe Castiglione, director of athletics, Oklahoma University
Janet Cone, director of athletics, University of North Carolina at Asheville
Tom Holmoe, director of athletics, Brigham Young University
Mark Hollis, director of athletics, Michigan State University
Judy MacLeod, executive associate commissioner, Conference USA
Bernard Muir, director of athletics, Stanford University
Bruce Rasmussen, director of athletics, Creighton University
Peter Roby, director of athletics, Northeastern University
QUOTE]
When was the last time UD had someone on the committee? Frericks??
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Yeah, pretty sure Frericks is the last, and he was the Chair. Boy, that goes back a ways.
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03-16-2015, 07:55 PM
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"Winner: Power Conference Schools
Texas, Indiana, LSU, Georgia, and UCLA were all on the bubble. None even has to bother with a play-in game. Meanwhile, the 1-seeds in the NIT — and therefore the first four teams to miss the cut for the NCAA tournament — are Temple, Colorado State, Old Dominion, and Richmond. It pays to be rich."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nc...rizona-kansas/
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03-16-2015, 08:25 PM
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The A10 needs to get someone on the committee.
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03-16-2015, 08:38 PM
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Best Wins: AT MIAMI???????????
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03-16-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports
Just remember George Mason went from First Four to Final Four
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So did VCU.
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03-16-2015, 08:50 PM
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Depending on how one looks at it, its either a slap in the face or a gift. Lets take the gift route.
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03-16-2015, 09:01 PM
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There have been several interesting comments over on the A-10 board.
Some posters feel last year when the A-10 got six bids, and those teams did well for themselves, it was the last straw, so to speak, for the Power 5 conferences. They decided something like that would never happen again.
Remember Coach K actively attacking the Selection Committee? He called them out publicly, said it was a big mistake to give (he could barely bring himself to mumble it, "the....A-...10" six bids. "I mean, if they played in our conference dadadada...." And this is the voice of God.
So, this year's Selection Committee was put on notice: Minimize the number of teams from non-Power Conferences if you know what's good for you -- Capisce?
True, the NBE got six in this year, but that couldn't be prevented and will not be a regular occurrence. The Power 5 intimidated the Committee. Anyway, that's the way the story goes.
But I don't buy it. They just did it the old fashioned way.
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03-16-2015, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sid Louick
Best Wins: AT MIAMI???????????
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Video never mentions MIAMI. What'cha looking at?
(oh, I see--- written material below--he probably thought that was Miami Fla.)
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03-17-2015, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
Right, just like we will not schedule Wright State.
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Wow, I hit a nerve here. How is this out of bounds? How is this incorrect? How is this not relevant to the discussion? We will not schedule WSU for the same reasons that OSU, etc will not schedule us.
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03-17-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I haven't read the whole thread, or even most of it, but I get the gist of it.
The selection of UCLA is, without a doubt, the craziest thing I've ever seen a selection committee do. I never agree with everything, but at the very least I can almost always see some sort of rational thought process as to why they did what they did. UCLA is both grossly undeserving, and grossly unqualified. In addition to looking terrible on paper, they don't look good on the court. They've taken teams with weak credentials before, but at least most of them looked like NCAA Tournament caliber teams when you watched them play. UCLA doesn't. They won 20 games. 16 of those were at home. 15 of those were against sub 100 RPI teams. They had three losses to teams outside the top 100 vs five wins against the top 100. That is one of the weakest cases I have ever seen of a team that actually got in. Had that been a non-power conference team, everyone would have accused them of running up their record against weak teams.
Scott Barnes said that they liked how UCLA finished strong, or something to that effect. UCLA was 5-4 in their last nine games. They beat USC twice, Washington and Washington State. All of those teams are terrible, and USC in particular is abysmal. That's not "finishing strong." They actually struggled in their win at home against Washington State.
There were reasons to leave Temple and Miami out, so I don't particularly feel sorry for them, but there were also reasons to take them. In the case of Miami, I thought there were more reasons to take them than to leave them out. There was no reason at all to take UCLA. None. The idea that they're in the field at all, much less in ahead of all the temas they're ahead of, is completely ridiculous.
So, what if they win?? They could win the whole thing and it won't change my opinion. It's about who earned the spots, and they clearly didn't. All UCLA did was prove they could win at home against teams outside the top 100.
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This why the UCLA inclusion is so bothersome to me. Arguments can be made for virtually every other inclusion. Heck, based on Dance Card which factors in all of the past selection, UD could have been left out. I am not a conspiracy theorist but it took more than group think to get UCLA in this tournament. Someone was sent in to get that job done and I don't think they were alone. Looking at Dance Card, Stanford should have been in before UCLA but the AD for Stanford could not pimp for his own team.
People are b*tching about Murray St running the table in conference but losing their tourney final and being left out. Now it is a power 5 conference doing nothing all season but "looking good" losing in their conference final, getting in.
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03-17-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
Wow, I hit a nerve here. How is this out of bounds? How is this incorrect? How is this not relevant to the discussion? We will not schedule WSU for the same reasons that OSU, etc will not schedule us.
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Not even close to being the same. There is nothing to gain for UD playing WSU. A win means nothing, a loss can be devastating. An OSU win against UD would be a good resume and seeding builder, a loss to UD would not be considered a "bad loss."
It's really not that difficult.
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03-17-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
This why the UCLA inclusion is so bothersome to me. Arguments can be made for virtually every other inclusion. Heck, based on Dance Card which factors in all of the past selection, UD could have been left out. I am not a conspiracy theorist but it took more than group think to get UCLA in this tournament. Someone was sent in to get that job done and I don't think they were alone. Looking at Dance Card, Stanford should have been in before UCLA but the AD for Stanford could not pimp for his own team.
People are b*tching about Murray St running the table in conference but losing their tourney final and being left out. Now it is a power 5 conference doing nothing all season but "looking good" losing in their conference final, getting in.
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I have a hard time feeling sorry for Murray State. They knew they were going to be good, and from the looks of it made no attempts to schedule anybody. They posted ten ads on basketball travelers for this season, and nine of them were wanting to start home and homes in Murray. Having said that, Murray would have made more sense than UCLA.
Personally, I think Iona would have made more sense than Murray, but since Murray cracked the top 25 and Iona didn't, the writers decided to dismiss Iona for all the same reasons they were criticizing everybody else for dismissing Murray. Iona played a tougher schedule, won more div1 games, and had better wins while winning more div1 games. The team they lost to in the championship game was a heated rival in Manhattan that they had beaten twice during the season.
So, Iona would have made more sense than Murray State, who would have made more sense than UCLA.
Actually, while we're at it, Miami FL and Temple would have made more sense than Iona, who would have made more sense than Richmond, who would have made more sense than Old Dominion, who would have made more sense than a lot more sense than Illionois, who would have made more sense Texas A&M, who would have made more sense than Louisiana Tech, who would have made more sense than Murray State, who would have made more sense than some other teams, and all those other teams STILL would have made more sense than UCLA.
I just can't take that pick seriously. I always thought I kind of had my finger on the pulse of the committee, and would have a pretty good and basic idea of what they did and why they did it, but if they'll take UCLA, they'll take anyone.
Last edited by xubrew; 03-17-2015 at 01:11 PM..
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03-17-2015, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I have a hard time feeling sorry for Murray State. They knew they were going to be good, and from the looks of it made no attempts to schedule anybody. They posted ten ads on basketball travelers for this season, and nine of them were wanting to start home and homes in Murray. Having said that, Murray would have made more sense than UCLA.
Personally, I think Iona would have made more sense than Murray, but since Murray cracked the top 25 and Iona didn't, the writers decided to dismiss Iona for all the same reasons they were criticizing everybody else for dismissing Murray. Iona played a tougher schedule, won more div1 games, and had better wins while winning more div1 games. The team they lost to in the championship game was a heated rival in Manhattan that they had beaten twice during the season.
So, Iona would have made more sense than Murray State, who would have made more sense than UCLA.
Actually, while we're at it, Miami FL and Temple would have made more sense than Iona, who would have made more sense than Richmond, who would have made more sense than Old Dominion, who would have made more sense than a lot more sense than Illionois, who would have made more sense Texas A&M, who would have made more sense than Louisiana Tech, who would have made more sense than Murray State, who would have made more sense than some other teams, and all those other teams STILL would have made more sense than UCLA.
I just can't take that pick seriously. I always thought I kind of had my finger on the pulse of the committee, and would have a pretty good and basic idea of what they did and why they did it, but if they'll take UCLA, they'll take anyone.
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I wasn't making a case for Murray St.
The explanation of the UCLA pick is easy. They were going to get four PAC 12 teams in. What I want to know is how they went about doing it? Because understanding that will explain other mysteries like seeding. There were always questions before but as you said, there was some explanation that was at least defensible. The UCLA selection proves that there are out of the open dealings.
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03-17-2015, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I wasn't making a case for Murray St.
The explanation of the UCLA pick is easy. They were going to get four PAC 12 teams in. What I want to know is how they went about doing it? Because understanding that will explain other mysteries like seeding. There were always questions before but as you said, there was some explanation that was at least defensible. The UCLA selection proves that there are out of the open dealings.
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I should have made it more clear that I didn't think you were arguing for Murray State.
If it were one or the other, I'd argue for Murray State, because at least they can be argued for. They didn't play or beat anybody, but they didn't definitively prove they sucked either quite like UCLA did.
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03-17-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
The explanation of the UCLA pick is easy. They were going to get four PAC 12 teams in.
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But the committee doesn't pick by conference, they only pick teams. They pay no attention to how many teams from any particular conference are in....wink, wink.
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03-17-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
But the committee doesn't pick by conference, they only pick teams. They pay no attention to how many teams from any particular conference are in....wink, wink.
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That's the thing. Now we absolutely know that is not true. I want to know who says what to who to get it done.
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03-17-2015, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
That's the thing. Now we absolutely know that is not true. I want to know who says what to who to get it done.
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I used to know someone in the mob; he's dead now.
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03-17-2015, 02:55 PM
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BUMP!
Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
I'll say it again... this seed is the best chance to make the Final Four. We avoid 2 seed until the Sweet 16 and 1 seed until Elite 8. Probably one of those will lose before we'd have to face them. The 11/6/3 seed games would be tough, of course, but it wouldn't take a miracle to win. If one of the 1/2 seeds gets upset beforehand, we can make the Final Four while only requiring one miracle.
But a whole lot of luck, too...
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With some of the negative emotion having seeped out of my body, I supported the above on Sunday. After studying the numbers I really believe that our first 3 likely opponents are no better than the A10 teams we faced at the end of the season and the A10 tournament.
When you factor in the reality that Providence and Oklahoma's SOS was constructed largely by drinking their own bathwater in major conferences, the playing field levels out considerably. I see no reason why we can't get on a 3 game win streak this week and move on. Not easy, but no tougher than facing teams like VCU, Davidson, and Rhode Island. We have the juice and the resolve to win close games, which these will be. And no tougher than OSU, Syracuse, and Stanford were last season. It can be done folks.
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03-17-2015, 03:26 PM
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I have contact on the inside. Trust me he is on the inside. He said UD was told before the A-10 finals that the winner would be a 7 seed. He and everyone else was in utter disbelief on the 11 seed - play in game seeding. They figured a 10 seed at absolute worst.
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03-17-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl
I have contact on the inside. Trust me he is on the inside. He said UD was told before the A-10 finals that the winner would be a 7 seed. He and everyone else was in utter disbelief on the 11 seed - play in game seeding. They figured a 10 seed at absolute worst.
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Is it possible, in holding on for that outcome, Dayton was inadvertently not placed in the proper s-curve slot, and time became a factor in resorting to the logistics and following rules? Dayton was suddenly a team left over (Dayton was definitely in > team does not go from possible 7 to out in a game--RIGHT???) and in last ditch positioning did as they did?
Dayton was NOT going to be left out if U Conn won. I DO NOT believe that would have been possible.
REALLY--Nobody would have showed up!!
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03-17-2015, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1
Is it possible, in holding on for that outcome, Dayton was inadvertently not placed in the proper s-curve slot, and time became a factor in resorting to the logistics and following rules? Dayton was suddenly a team left over (Dayton was definitely in > team does not go from possible 7 to out in a game--RIGHT???) and in last ditch positioning did as they did?
Dayton was NOT going to be left out if U Conn won. I DO NOT believe that would have been possible.
REALLY--Nobody would have showed up!!
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They did twelve contingency brackets based on all the possible outcomes from Sunday's games, so I don't think they ran out of time or that Dayton ended up there inadvertently. Also, the teams in the First Four are not to be moved up the seed list. It's the last four in, period. At least that's what they say.
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03-18-2015, 09:49 AM
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"4-12: UCLA's road/neutral record this season, which CBSSports.com bracketlogist Jerry Palm says is the worst road/neutral resume of any at-large team since he began tracking in 1993."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...5-ncaa-tourney
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03-18-2015, 10:14 AM
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Each NCAA tourney unit is worth $1.6M over 6 years or a little more than $250k a year. Dayton earns a full unit with tonight's game and the A-10 gives 75% to Dayton and keeps 25% for the league as a whole. So I am going to be an optimist and say we win tonight and another $1M to pay Archie the next 6 years or almost $200k a year -- this is an extra game/NCAA unit IMHO = big money!
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...sketball-fund/
http://wewearthering.com/2014/03/27/...ketball-units/
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03-18-2015, 10:49 AM
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Websters:
"Eye Test" - Ignoring the objective while embracing the subjective
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03-18-2015, 10:51 AM
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03-18-2015, 10:53 AM
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03-18-2015, 11:00 AM
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Where do you see that from the link? It has an ellipses after the BSU. Looks like he's just saying the winner will play Providence.
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03-18-2015, 11:02 AM
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03-18-2015, 12:05 PM
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The NCAA can try to spin this fiasco anyway they want to, but they're not fooling anybody trying to put lip stick on this pig. Not withstanding how they try to promote "fairness" in the process by having pundits come in and have selection simulations, the outcome of this year's "deliberations" puts the lie to the posturing that this is an equitable and fair process; the process is flawed, pure and simple.
BTW, not only did we get screwed, but so did BSU, Colorado State and a few others. How many of the Big 5 conferences play true road games in their OCS, except perhaps for some pre-Holiday Tournaments? Why are the Big 5 Conferences assumed to be that much stronger than the top teams in a number of non-BCS FB Conferences? IMHO, there is an inherent bias built into the process that shows up year-in-year-out. Obviously, some years are better than others, but by and large, this tendency goes back almost to the beginning of the NCAA Tournament.
My recollection is that Coach Blackburn found out about the power conference bias early on and then decided to concentrate on going to the N.I.T., when it was as well respected (if not more so) than the NCAA. Al McGuire took his Marquette club to the N.I.T. in the early 1970s over an unjustified seeding by the "Selection Committee". IMHO, that resulted in the NCAA requiring all schools to accept invitations to their tournament and led them to actively undermine the viability of the N.I.T. As the result of a law suit against the NCAA, the sponsors of the N.I.T. wrested a tidy some from the NCAA that didn't want to air it's dirty laundry in court. The leopard hasn't changed it's spots, the PR has just gotten a little bit slicker.
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03-18-2015, 01:58 PM
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Actually he chose Dayton to beat Providence.
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03-19-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
With some of the negative emotion having seeped out of my body, I supported the above on Sunday. After studying the numbers I really believe that our first 3 likely opponents are no better than the A10 teams we faced at the end of the season and the A10 tournament.
When you factor in the reality that Providence and Oklahoma's SOS was constructed largely by drinking their own bathwater in major conferences, the playing field levels out considerably. I see no reason why we can't get on a 3 game win streak this week and move on. Not easy, but no tougher than facing teams like VCU, Davidson, and Rhode Island. We have the juice and the resolve to win close games, which these will be. And no tougher than OSU, Syracuse, and Stanford were last season. It can be done folks.
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Further proof of the above notion that we are in a good draw position, #3 Iowa State of the Big 12 gets upset by #14 UAB today. The Big 12 is well thought of this season as a deep league, but maybe not as strong as everyone thinks.
Providence is a 6 and Oklahoma is a 3, the same as recently departed Iowa State. Remember the unbeatable OU and Wayman Tisdale? Splat!!
Bulletin: #3 seed Baylor from the Big 12 just upset by #14 Georgia State
Do I sense a trend here??
Last edited by San Diego Flyer; 03-19-2015 at 04:22 PM..
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03-19-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Further proof of the above notion that we are in a good draw position, #3 Iowa State of the Big 12 gets upset by #14 UAB today. The Big 12 is well thought of this season as a deep league, but maybe not as strong as everyone thinks.
Providence is a 6 and Oklahoma is a 3, the same as recently departed Iowa State. Remember the unbeatable OU and Wayman Tisdale? Splat!!
Bulletin: #3 seed Baylor from the Big 12 just upset by #14 Georgia State
Do I sense a trend here??
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Big 12 must be a meat grinder like the ACC. They have nothing left in the tank after beating each other up all the conference season.
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03-19-2015, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Big 12 must be a meat grinder like the ACC. They have nothing left in the tank after beating each other up all the conference season.
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OR, the others are playing games at conference end like they really matter and post season 'life' depends on it...
as opposed to any effort will do__we're in at 3-13.
Some of these non-BCS teams are seasoned with TENACITY and will.
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03-19-2015, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Why were 5 other A10 teams able to play a tougher OOC schedule this year than we were?
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Because those 5 play in high school gyms, therefore, they don't care to go on the road to experience a real college basketball atmosphere.
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