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11-19-2015, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer
You absolutely can count the first 2 games as the teams we were playing
(especially Alabama) were not much less talented than the average team we are going to play this year.
Sorry but 27 is closer to 25 than 30 and to be exact, Sibert averaged 26 minutes. Also, I think certain freshmen are more prepared to play 10+ minutes than 2 years ago when Kendall and Kyle took a while to come around. For instance, I don't think Mikesell will ave 20 minutes a game but probably 15. And Miller looks to be splitting time with Steve at center. I think this will be the case even when Dyshawn comes back. As I said last year, no reason to play small ball when you have 4 capable players bigger than 6' 6". I will even say I would be stunned to see us play a lineup with 6' 6" and under only players ever this year.
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Prepare to be stunned. There is more to basketball than height. Mikesell is somehow listed at 6'7", but would you rather have him, KP, or DP play the 4? Once DP is back, the same lineup as last year of SM, KD/DD, CC, DP and KP will play alot together. That lineup won 2 games in NCAA last year., why go away from what works? Only difference is this year, we don't have to roll it out as the only option and for 40minutes a game.
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11-27-2015, 08:55 AM
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After seeing 4 games, it looks to me like Archie might make this decision on a game-to-game basis. From what I saw last night, it would be hard to justify sitting any of the 5 who started for us in that great win over Iowa. I will say this: it's nice to have options, and it looks like we have several!
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11-27-2015, 09:24 AM
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I will officially retract my suggestion that Cooke heads to the bench. As much as it pains me, it just has to be KD.
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11-27-2015, 09:52 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I will officially retract my suggestion that Cooke heads to the bench. As much as it pains me, it just has to be KD.
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Yes, but if the KD from last night keeps showing up, it'll be hard to justify sitting him, too.
And BTW, I thought the blocking foul that was called on him when Uthoff was backing him down was B.S. KD was holding his ground, Uthoff did an @$$-roll over him, and they call blocking on KD. Ri-frick-ulous!
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11-27-2015, 10:01 AM
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Challenge for AM...
It's entirely possible to have too much talent...such that it compromises team chemistry. Coaches will always take talent; but they have to manage egos carefully.
I recall a recent year when Jim Calhoun has two lottery picks in the starting line-up...and he knew something about coaching. Never mind, the team was lousy and missed the NCAAs. More than one opposing coach opined that JC had too much talent...the guys played against each other rather than against the opponent. Now you might think one of BB all-time coaches would know how to deal with that...but he didn't. When the super-stars left for the NBA the "team" was greatly improved.
I think AM is up to the task. Nonetheless, if the Flyers are unbeaten and/or have but one loss,....something like that,...when P returns AM will have to be careful, in my opinion.
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11-27-2015, 10:06 AM
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That guy down in Lexington does this talent balancing act year in and year out. Sometimes it works other times like last year based on their lofty goals it does not. I have full faith Archie and the True Team will figure it out.
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11-27-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
And BTW, I thought the blocking foul that was called on him when Uthoff was backing him down was B.S. KD was holding his ground, Uthoff did an @$$-roll over him, and they call blocking on KD. Ri-frick-ulous!
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That was the right call...by definition a defender whose feet are spread wider than his shoulders is not in a legal defensive position, so regardless of whether he was holding his ground or not, it's a defensive foul since KD was darn near doing the splitz.
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11-27-2015, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
It's entirely possible to have too much talent...such that it compromises team chemistry.
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I royally agree.
Sincerely,
Urban Meyer
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11-27-2015, 10:43 AM
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I vote for DP being sixth man of the year. He will still get his 25 to 30 minutes per game, and bring a ton of leadership, experience and energy coming off the bench.
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11-27-2015, 10:51 AM
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Archie has bene very successful in keeping egos in check.
Adjusting to different styles is another factor. For example, the first few games, the Flyers have struggled to make the short roll pass in the lane. They Flyer penetrates the lane and for the first time, the have a big offensive player nearby to catch a pas. Normally, they kick out far towards the three point line. So far, this year, UD has struggled with is pick and roll type of pass, which requires a softer (but not too soft) delicate touch that has to be in the just the right spot.
As the team learns better how to make that pass, penetration will have three tough options to defend, shot, kick out pass and inside roll pass.
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11-27-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by big jordan
Agree with Ramod. I think Pollard off the bench first (replacing McElvene, who only plays first 3 mins anyways) makes the most sense.
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Agree with this latest Configuration. Perhaps Pollard off the Bench first.
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11-27-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by big jordan
Agree with Ramod. I think Pollard off the bench first (replacing McElvene, who only plays first 3 mins anyways) makes the most sense.
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Agree with this latest Configuration. Perhaps Pollard off the Bench first. POLLARD has perfect 6th man attributes. Do some cleanup and add muscle and Mojo!
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11-27-2015, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
Agree with this latest Configuration. Perhaps Pollard off the Bench first. POLLARD has perfect 6th man attributes. Do some cleanup and add muscle and Mojo!
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I'm starting to think there's nothing wrong with showing some respect to the Senior and Juniors by just starting last years lineup with Cooke replacing JS. This way you're not dissing anyone. Big Steve spends a lot of minutes on the bench anyway and once you get a few minutes into the game you can rotate Steve in, and start rotating between KP, CC and DP and with KD, DD, JC and DD.
I really think it would be a hard pill to swallow for DP, KP, CC, KD and SS not to be announced as starters after what returning starters have given the program over the years and the new player has given us this season. It's really just a complimentary thing as to who's out the at tipoff and to be honest, Big Steve isn't winning the tipoff that often anyway. I know I'd be kind of humiliated not to get the label of starter if I was any of those guys and I think Big Steve would be the most likely to not be insulted by this. And let's face it, a happy team is instrumental in a successful team.
The minutes will be determined by how each individual game dictates.
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11-27-2015, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I'm starting to think there's nothing wrong with showing some respect to the Senior and Juniors by just starting last years lineup with Cooke replacing JS. This way you're not dissing anyone. Big Steve spends a lot of minutes on the bench anyway and once you get a few minutes into the game you can rotate Steve in, and start rotating between KP, CC and DP and with KD, DD, JC and DD.
I really think it would be a hard pill to swallow for DP, KP, CC, KD and SS not to be announced as starters after what returning starters have given the program over the years and the new player has given us this season. It's really just a complimentary thing as to who's out the at tipoff and to be honest, Big Steve isn't winning the tipoff that often anyway. I know I'd be kind of humiliated not to get the label of starter if I was any of those guys and I think Big Steve would be the most likely to not be insulted by this. And let's face it, a happy team is instrumental in a successful team.
The minutes will be determined by how each individual game dictates.
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Freaking brilliant.
There was a couple years during the Lakers Showtime years when James Worthy came off the bench as a scoring punch for the second unit, still playing starters minutes. Cooke could fill that role.
I could see, Scoochie Kyle Cooke Kendall and Dyshawn OR Scoochie Kyle Kendall Dyshawn and Steve. Hell, maybe Scoochie,Kyle,Cooke,Kendall and Steve.
Under no circumstances do you sit Scoochie,Kyle or Kendall. None. Mark my words these 3 will not lose their spot
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11-28-2015, 05:23 PM
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I think Cooke to the bench makes the most sense. Still playing starter minutes, but if he plays more with the second unit we will have less of a drop-off. I think Big Steve should start because I imagine he has the most stamina issues. (Just guessing because big guys usually do.) That way he gets his minutes spread out more. Have to have a TrueTeam buy in, though.
Minutes:
Cooke, Pierre, Scoochie, Pollard: 27 each
Mikesell, KD, Steve: 18 each
DD, Miller, Xeyrious: 10 each
Wehrli, Crosby: 4 each
With Pierre starting and Cooke off the bench, you never have to have a minute with them both resting at the same time, and then you have them both in the game at the end.
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11-28-2015, 05:24 PM
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Archie better be sent to the nut house if he limits Kyle to 18 minutes a game
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11-28-2015, 05:33 PM
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Just showing how the numbers could work out. Kyle's playing 22mpg right now. 18 isn't that far off. Like this better?
Cooke, Pierre, Scoochie: 30 each
Pollard, KD: 25 each
Steve: 20
Mikesell, DD, Xeyrious: 10 each
Miller, Crosby: 5 each
Wehrli: 0
We have so much talent on the team that no matter what you put up there someone is going to say, "No way Player A only gets B minutes!"
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11-28-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
Just showing how the numbers could work out. Kyle's playing 22mpg right now. 18 isn't that far off. Like this better?
Cooke, Pierre, Scoochie: 30 each
Pollard, KD: 25 each
Steve: 20
Mikesell, DD, Xeyrious: 10 each
Miller, Crosby: 5 each
Wehrli: 0
We have so much talent on the team that no matter what you put up there someone is going to say, "No way Player A only gets B minutes!"
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Actually like this way better. This could be it when it comes time to tighten things up in must win games or tomorrow for example. I wouldnt give 10 to Mikesell though. When Pierre is back and up to speed, the Lion's share of the minutes have to go to Cooke,Scoochie,Dyshawn,Kendall,Steve,Kyle and Darrell. Outside of Xeryius i dont want to see anyone outside the "Big Seven" getting more then 5-7 minutes
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11-28-2015, 06:07 PM
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Mikes sellis only averaging 13 now- you see him increasing?? Love his shot but is a real liability on d against athletic teams. Very slow
And X goes from avg of 19 to 10?? Maybe. I doubt it . He's great on the glass and can play D.
Steve IMHO is the biggest loser. Pollard will continue to limit his own minutes with foul trouble, don't see him increasing to 25.
If anything I think Cooke gets more as he gets more comfortable in the system. He's our leading scorer by far. No way we cut him back.
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11-28-2015, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
Actually like this way better. This could be it when it comes time to tighten things up in must win games or tomorrow for example. I wouldnt give 10 to Mikesell though. When Pierre is back and up to speed, the Lion's share of the minutes have to go to Cooke,Scoochie,Dyshawn,Kendall,Steve,Kyle and Darrell. Outside of Xeryius i dont want to see anyone outside the "Big Seven" getting more then 5-7 minutes
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Actually, the best thing that could happen is Crosby's minutes go up because he's catching on. Somewhere close to Scooch his freshman season. I really think that if Crosby improves enough to be the actual backup to Scooch, you will see baby D's game going up too. Baby D is not meant to be a PG in any shape or form, he's a SG and will be a great one if that's all he has to concentrate on.
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11-30-2015, 08:27 PM
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After watching this team in person the last three games, I'm going with:
Scooch
KD
Cooke
Pierre
Pollard
Steve will be very good by the time it is all said and done, but he has some work to do.
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11-30-2015, 09:49 PM
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I could see bringing Pollard off the bench to keep him out of foul trouble before turning him loose at 100 mph. Instant offense/energy. One thing about Pierre is he defends without fouling. Kyle Davis is another high energy, havoc-reaking type, so he would also be appealing to me in a 6th man role.
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11-30-2015, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I was pretty much in agreement with you until that.
I think last year Archie learned that with the right players, small ball can work. I would not expect to see a lot of it but I think if Pierre comes back, we will see it again.
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I'm thinking more of this now, with kd AND Steve coming off the bench .
Let's see how Steve does next 6 games
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12-01-2015, 09:32 AM
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I have said from day 1 that KP, DP, CC, KD and SS should start. Those 5 will play the most minutes.
BUT.
As an honest question, how much does AM value winning the opening tip and having the first opportunity for an "extra possession" if there's a jump ball?
I won't guess which of the 5 guys you take out, but do you start Steve and take him out at 16min mark or first dead ball if you think he can win the tip?
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12-01-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 224
I have said from day 1 that KP, DP, CC, KD and SS should start. Those 5 will play the most minutes.
BUT.
As an honest question, how much does AM value winning the opening tip and having the first opportunity for an "extra possession" if there's a jump ball?
I won't guess which of the 5 guys you take out, but do you start Steve and take him out at 16min mark or first dead ball if you think he can win the tip?
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How many tips has Steve won? I don't recall too many.
I agree on the line-up. That is last year's formula for success with CC taking over for JS. Everyone else gets fill in minutes.
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12-01-2015, 10:11 AM
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XW
should jump center and then Steve gets subbed in. This would be Archie's version of Urban 's
JT in the red zone move. SM has won one jump in all games including the Red-Blue. I did not see the secret Purdue scrimmage. He can jump but his timing is slow and uncoordinated.
XW can jump out of the gym.
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12-01-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 224
I have said from day 1 that KP, DP, CC, KD and SS should start. Those 5 will play the most minutes.
BUT.
As an honest question, how much does AM value winning the opening tip and having the first opportunity for an "extra possession" if there's a jump ball?
I won't guess which of the 5 guys you take out, but do you start Steve and take him out at 16min mark or first dead ball if you think he can win the tip?
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Who cares about the tip? Means ZERO..They lost every tip last year and won 26-27 games....What it all means is finding a niche/role for these players, one they're comfortable in that puts the team in the best spot to succeed.....They better start shooting the ball better from the 3 or they're going to have plenty of issues with the way they're defending the 3..
I like KD alot but more as the 3rd guard/6th man coming in. UD is in a quandry with KD, though..He's such a great energy guy and great defender that provides points in transition but he's also being left wide open for 18-20 footers in the half-court and he's clanking them. The Iowa performance by him, imho, will not be the norm this year and with the shot clock reduced it means less opportunities for teams to get out of bad offensive situations and chances to move the ball around....With DP back and hopefully Big Steve staying on the floor, UD should clean up on the glass when A10 play starts and get numerous fast break points which fits right into KD's mode..
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12-01-2015, 11:10 AM
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Listening to Archie last night, Big Steve gives them a inside man that blocks shots. This is something we have not had here, quote from Archie. Plus he sees Steve getting better offensly. Likes Big Steve upside
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12-01-2015, 11:16 AM
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If thats the Case A10, then perhaps it will be Pollard first off the bench.
I have NO issue with that. KP is a perfect sixth man. Grind it, bang it, score it.
Do it all over again.
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12-01-2015, 11:18 AM
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Long thread....
I may have missed it....but Dec 22 is just three weeks away. Surely it is well known by now whether DP will be back. Some Priders are well connected with UD athletics. Have they Priders) told us what is going to happen?
Sorry if I missed it.
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12-01-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Surely it is well known by now whether DP will be back. Some Priders are well connected with UD athletics. Have they Priders told us what is going to happen?
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Nobody is saying sh*t pubicly but I'm having lunch next week with someone very, very close to My Team, and since I'm buying, (s)he better be talking!
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12-01-2015, 12:32 PM
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Not 10 minutes after my last post I get a text from my lunch 'date' saying that Pierre met with Archie yesterday and we should be hearing good news soon.
I'm not making promises or predictions, I'm just being the messenger...
Stay tuned.
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12-01-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
I'm not making promises or predictions, I'm just being the messenger...
Stay tuned.
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Some messengers have been shot over far less news than this! Say this (highlighted above) only when all guns have been checked at the door and all chamber rounds have been ejected!
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12-01-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Who cares about the tip? Means ZERO..They lost every tip last year and won 26-27 games....What it all means is finding a niche/role for these players, one they're comfortable in that puts the team in the best spot to succeed.....They better start shooting the ball better from the 3 or they're going to have plenty of issues with the way they're defending the 3..
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It's not the winning of the tip itself, it's the extra possession late in a game we may get as a result. You're right -- who cares who wins if there are no jump balls or an even number called during game.
But what if it's a tied game with 25s left, ball goes to the floor and refs call the first jump of the game. Well if won the tip, thats our ball. The tip in hindsight seems pretty important.
Kurt Huelsman used to start then go to the bench first dead ball. I think that was AM first year as coach? Alot of games KH wouldnt even start the second half.
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12-01-2015, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Listening to Archie last night, Big Steve gives them a inside man that blocks shots. This is something we have not had here, quote from Archie. Plus he sees Steve getting better offensly. Likes Big Steve upside
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Seems only against weaker teams. Think DP starts and Big Steve grabs some pine. He's got s long way to go to belong on the same court as players like X had. He was completely impotent
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12-02-2015, 09:48 AM
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If DP ends up coming back the starting lineup without a doubt should be:
SS, KD, CC, DP, KP
These guys will start and play the most minutes. Archie needs to shorten the bench. We won with 6 guys and played our best when we were small and fast. This is your primary lineup and then DD and Big Steve are your first two off the bench. Do the same thing as last year but now you have the benefit of giving guys rest and not worrying about foul trouble.
Then bring in XW, Mikesell, and Crosby in spot minutes here and there. Miller and Wherli only see the floor when absolutely necessary. Simple as that.
Last edited by UDFlyer23; 12-02-2015 at 09:51 AM..
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12-02-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23
If DP ends up coming back the starting lineup without a doubt should be:
SS, KD, CC, DP, KP
These guys will start and play the most minutes. Archie needs to shorten the bench. We won with 6 guys and played our best when we were small and fast. This is your primary lineup and then DD and Big Steve are your first two off the bench.
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I would say at this point XW is clearly ahead of Big Steve and almost on par with DD.
But Yes - if / when DP comes back - he belongs in the starting 5 - and Big Steve needs to be coming off the bench. Next Year is when Big Steve is a starter. Really the current starting 5 is just a preview of the 2016/17 team.
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12-02-2015, 01:07 PM
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We'll see about that. I think Big Mac starts for a little , until he proves otherwise or not up to it.
Archie has some decisions to make, for sure. good problems to have.
Gotta get Mikesell more minutes, Sam M less IMO
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12-02-2015, 01:17 PM
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I think what you don't want is for Kp to get in foul trouble. An d then Mac comes in and gets in trouble. It protects KP for a few minutes by not starting.
As we know he's prone. And he's MORE key than Mac in my opinion. With attitude and toughness.
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12-02-2015, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
I think what you don't want is for Kp to get in foul trouble. An d then Mac comes in and gets in trouble. It protects KP for a few minutes by not starting.
As we know he's prone. And he's MORE key than Mac in my opinion. With attitude and toughness.
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KP and DP are never going to come off the bench. KP is trying to do a little too much right now and hasn't quite adjusted to having Big Steve in the middle. He played at his best when DP was on the court and the two of them together at the 4/5 spot was a mismatch for almost every team last year. Nobody could keep up with their speed and versatility.
SS, KD, DP, and KP are the reason we've won 5 NCAA games the past 2 years. That is the core group that is going to get us back there. Throw in CC who has already proven he can make up for Sibert's production. That's your starting 5 and the guys you want on the court in crunch time.
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12-02-2015, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23
KP and DP are never going to come off the bench...
SS, KD, DP, and KP are the reason we've won 5 NCAA games the past 2 years. That is the core group that is going to get us back there. Throw in CC who has already proven he can make up for Sibert's production. That's your starting 5 and the guys you want on the court in crunch time.
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What you say at the very end is correct about crunch time. But the guys you start aren't necessarily your crunch time players. Remember the name Vee Sanford. The thing you don't want is KP and DP on your bench at crunch time because they've fouled out. To me, having a guy come off the bench to give you a spark at the first media timeout is a huge lift. Archie might not go that route, but I also don't think he'd be afraid to go that route, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Pollard or Davis really respond well to it. And as long as they get their minutes and the team is winning, they won't be complaining.
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12-02-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
What you say at the very end is correct about crunch time. But the guys you start aren't necessarily your crunch time players. Remember the name Vee Sanford. The thing you don't want is KP and DP on your bench at crunch time because they've fouled out. To me, having a guy come off the bench to give you a spark at the first media timeout is a huge lift. Archie might not go that route, but I also don't think he'd be afraid to go that route, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Pollard or Davis really respond well to it. And as long as they get their minutes and the team is winning, they won't be complaining.
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I agree KP or KD wouldn't complain, but this lineup managed to play the majority of last season without ever getting into foul trouble. The new rules and new players to mesh with has something to do with the foul trouble now, but they will adjust.
I just don't see how anyone can justify not starting your best players because of the possibility that they might pick up 2 early fouls. You start your big dogs, stomp on the other team's throat from the beginning, and don't let up.
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12-02-2015, 05:06 PM
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You start and play our 5 studs: Schooch, KD, CC, DP, KP and let Big Steve,DD, and X come off the bench. I think we reduce our rotation to 8 and let our upper class guys lead us back to the tourney.
Going small can give you matchup problems in college basketball, especially with the rule changes. Anybody notice that Xavier starts Trevon Bluiett (6'5") at PF? They do this because he creates mismatches all over the court. We had great success with DP and KP and no reason to think why not do it again.
Dont overthink things. DP is our best player and lets ride him all the way to another March run.
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12-02-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23
KP and DP are never going to come off the bench. KP is trying to do a little too much right now and hasn't quite adjusted to having Big Steve in the middle. He played at his best when DP was on the court and the two of them together at the 4/5 spot was a mismatch for almost every team last year. Nobody could keep up with their speed and versatility.
SS, KD, DP, and KP are the reason we've won 5 NCAA games the past 2 years. That is the core group that is going to get us back there. Throw in CC who has already proven he can make up for Sibert's production. That's your starting 5 and the guys you want on the court in crunch time.
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Let's talk about crunch time and KP. When you're holding on to a lead, you might want him on the bench to keep him away from the FT line(when Pierre returns). When we're trying to catch up, you want him on the court. Depends what kind of crunch time we're talking about.
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12-02-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerNation23
Going small can give you matchup problems in college basketball, especially with the rule changes. Anybody notice that Xavier starts Trevon Bluiett (6'5") at PF? They do this because he creates mismatches all over the court. We had great success with DP and KP and no reason to think why not do it again.
Dont overthink things. DP is our best player and lets ride him all the way to another March run.
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Exactly. The combination of KP and DP creates mismatches all over the floor and the more time that both of them can be on the court together the better. Also, teams are forced to help when DP goes to work down low and this opens up so many more 3-point looks for CC, Scooch and DD.
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12-10-2015, 05:37 PM
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An article was published today on CBS Sports that talks about our seasons success YTD.
More importantly, AM elaborates on DP and his status. This is the most information we have heard come out of his mouth:
Miller went into detail about what's to come with Pierre's reintegration process. The suspension from school is lifted Dec. 20, and on that day Miller will likely sit down with Pierre and his family to put together a program for getting him back onto the team. Miller spoke of Pierre's "academic obligation" first and foremost, and also knows Pierre could physically not be up to Dayton's standards for playing.
There's no assurance Pierre's going to be in game shape, and Miller will not risk messing up team dynamic and chemistry at the sake of throwing Pierre back into the lineup right after Christmas.
"Then there's the mental component of being away," Miller said. "If there's one guy who can do it, it's him. We're going to do what's best for him. He has as chance to be a hell of a player, and for him it's not just this year. It's for down the road. We're not going to just throw him out there."
Pierre's teammates are ready for his return. With him in the mix, they no doubt feel like a Final Four-quality team.
"I believe we'll be an even stronger team," Pollard said. "The only way we can go is up by adding a player like Dyshawn. He can rebound like no other."
Pierre averaged 12.7 points, 8.1 rebounds and three assists last season.
"We'll keep the basketball team out of it, keep our season out if it, and look at him as his own entity right now," Miller said of Pierre. "He'll be champing at the bit to play. But it might not happen right aay. If it's going to take him until February 1 or 5 or 7 to get him into a rhythm, then I have one of the best players in the country that I just wasted [a month] of basketball on. I do think there's a chance he'll come back to play in January -- maybe late December -- depending on how he feels. I won't know anything until I meet him face to face."
This was a little surprising to read. I think most of us anticipate he will be playing December 22. Maybe not....
Entire article: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...s-best-one-yet
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12-10-2015, 05:41 PM
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When is he allowed to practice is the bigger question?
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12-10-2015, 09:49 PM
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Not until the 20th at the earliest. Perhaps not at all until the 22nd.
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