If UD Retired Jerseys ...

[Columbia Blue]

Retiring jerseys last came up when B-Rob graduated ... clarification: this is more like honoring players since actual numbers can be recycled for active players.

I personally support the idea of "retiring" jerseys (not numbers) as extra recognition beyond the Hall of Fame.

North Carolina, of course, has a veritable locker room hanging from the rafters. That might be overkill, but why retire jerseys?

1) Reinforces tradition -- young Flyer fans should know these names!
2) Gives budding greats like B-Rob and CW something extra to shoot for
3) Source of pride, intimidates visitors

FWIW, _avier has 3 retired jerseys: West, Larkin and Hill, but they didn't rival our success in the 50s & 60s. I broke candidates into groups with key stats. The first five stand out:

INAUGURAL CLASS:
15 FINKEL (23 ppg, 13 rpg)
21 D. MAY (22 ppg, 14.5 rpg)
22 CHAPMAN (18.9 pt, 8.1 reb)
42 PAXSON (18 ppg, 515 ast, 52% fg)
54 MEINEKE (19 ppg)

2ND CLASS:
10 D. SMITH (20.4 ppg, 88% FT)
21 UHL (18.5 ppg, 14.6 rpg)
14 J. DAVIS (19 ppg, 323 asst, 76% FT)

3RD CLASS (OR NOT):
15 HORAN (14.6 ppg, 11 rpg)
32 KNIGHT (14.8 ppg, 663 asst)
-- ROGGENBURK (16.1 PPG, 11.8 RPG), #?

AFTER A WHILE:
2 ROBERTS

CLOSE BUT NOT QUITE?:
3 PERRYMAN (13 PPG, 10 RPG, 54% FG)
12 STANLEY (14.7 ppg, 174 stl, 1835 career pts)
15 CHMIELEWSKI (1962 NIT MVP, 15.4 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 2ND TEAM ALL-AMER)
20 SYLVESTER (15.4 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 74% FT)
20 CORBITT (14.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 53% fg)
40 KANIESKI (14 ppg, 7 rpg, 77% FT)

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[cbusflyer12]

I think Perryman gets in for sure. Where do Goodwin and Greavy rate on the list? Is it too early to nominate Wright?

[Fudd]

I don't like retiring jerseys, but put them in the rafters for recognition. I would love to see that.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Originally Posted by Fudd I don't like retiring jerseys, but put them in the rafters for recognition. I would love to see that.

Amen. For a program that markets its tradition as much as UD, I'm amazed we don't have a shrine to former greats, other than the pictures on the wall in the concourses. I'd love to have a "ring of honor" somewhere in the arena. Maybe just a few banners with names and years played. Something.

[Columbia Blue]

Originally Posted by cbusflyer12 I think Perryman gets in for sure. Where do Goodwin and Greavy rate on the list?

given our programs relative lack of attitude, i doubt jerseys will ever be retired, but for sake of debate ...

establishing somewhat objective criteria would be critical. to your question:

on my list, goodwin & grevey are sentimental favorites but not among the elite. other than our first 3pt marksman, grevey may be an HOF longshot with 875 career pts (7.7 ppg).

goodwin is in the 1000 pt club (1,191), 10 ppg and 86% FT -- probably HOF, well down the jersey list.

Originally Posted by cbusflyer12 Is it too early to nominate Wright?

in historical perspective, way too early. look at may, uhl & finkel averaging career double-doubles before freshman eligibility. we all hope chris has that sort of career as his coattails will take UD a long way!

[PerrymanFan]

I would say Perryman is a must and Corbitt should be up there as well. What about Sedric Toney or Brooks Hall?

Although he didn't have the stats to be among the greats, what about the idea of Chris Daniels?

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[ClearTheRunwayForWLJ]

If UD retired jersey's it would be the best thing it ever did!

Think about it, you can spread them out and have halftime ceremonies. UD has a problem reaching out to its famous alumni in general ... especially on the sports side.

There is no reason I should not see Flyer greats getting honored.

I would love to go to the game when Waleskowski would get retired. It is a way to link old with new ... the great prorams do it. We should too.

[allflyernamesaregone]

If we're talking about retiring jerseys, why not have banners in the rafters too. I never understood why UD's accomplishments are tucked in the corner where much of the arena cannot see.

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by allflyernamesaregone If we're talking about retiring jerseys, why not have banners in the rafters too. I never understood why UD's accomplishments are tucked in the corner where much of the arena cannot see.

Because of the way the Arena is set up, it would block peoples view if there were banners hanging from the rafters

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by zmz723 Because of the way the Arena is set up, it would block peoples view if there were banners hanging from the rafters

We have had banner up there before, on either side of the central scoreboard. (For NIT and NCAA appearances.)

[Flyer1407]

The only jersey retired should be Chris Daniels.

[shocka43]

Here is the criteria for UNC. Note differences in "retiring" and "honoring".

To be honored, a player must be named ACC Player of the Year, MVP of a National Championship-winning team, or to first- or second-team All-America, or be a member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team.

To have a jersey retired, a player must win one of the following six national player of the year awards: Associated Press, National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, John R. Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Trophy, and Naismith College Player of the Year.

[Columbia Blue]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Here is the criteria for UNC. Note differences in "retiring" and "honoring".

W*O*W!!!!!!!! our criteria would need to be a tad more liberal, otherwise our program would never get off the ground! i knew UNC was a bad example -- ha ha!

[Smitty10]

bobby joe hooooooper

[shocka43]

I will tell you that one that should be honored somewhere, in any respect, is Chris Daniels.

[priceg75]

Chris Daniels has the Conference's Most Improved Player award named after him. But it would be nice for the university to honor him in the arena as well.

He was an awesome guy and was just starting to come into his own as a player. Who would ever forget listening to the Fordham game after Chris' death and hearing Larry and Bucky in tears several times during the play-by-play? Not me, that's for sure.


I would say Ryan Perryman yes. It would mean a lot to him, I think, and he deserves it. Tony Stanley no.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[The Chef]

Using UNC's rules, UD would have seven honorees, all first or second team All-Americans.

Schumacher
Meineke
Uhl
Chmielewski
Finkel
May
Paxson

You could, in theory, honor Don Donoher because he was an assistant to Bob Knight's 1984 Olympic gold medal team, thus technically making him part of the team. But still, this leaves a lot of heavyweights off the list.

Interestingly enough, UD has never had a conference player of the year. (MCC, GMC (ha!), or A10).

If you're wondering about guys like John Horan and Garry Roggenburk, they were both third-team All American selections.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Chris Daniels has the Conference's Most Improved Player award named after him. But it would be nice for the university to honor him in the arena as well.

There is a large plaque on the wall already, though you may have been talking specifically about something hanging from the rafters.

[as_4]

I think it wouldn't be a retirement of the number as much as it's a "RING OF HONOR" or whatever you want to call it. Special players (whatever the criteria) have the number and name hanging in the Arena, that doesn't mean that other players can't wear the jersey #.

I would have to nominate Keith Waleskowski (just behind Perryman in pts and boards) just because of how hard it to get to 1000 pt / 1000 rebound. Plus he shot over 75% from FT. Can't wait for him to be inducted into the UD Hall of Fame though. That will be a special day.

[skip69]

Would be about time to hang jerseys from some spot easily noticed. I'd also see Hooper and Toney before Kanieski. There were 20 players on the all century team (including Bucky), and I agree with most. Kanieski did not make it even though I thought he was as deserving as Ed young (whose Sr. year was a real downer as I recall ... Yeah, I know, THE SHOT).

I really believe it is time for UD to admit to the mistake of standing behind Roger Brown when he was accused (but never indicted) during the betting scandal in 1960 (I think). He surely would have been the best ever at UD! Even though never played at varsity level, it would be an appropriated gesture to include him here as well.

Now, how do we get the Admin. to act on this great idea????????????

[The Joint]

I really like the "ring of honor" idea. Rather than a huge banner for each individual, a lower key plaque somewhere around the arena with a jersey number, name and dates.

I think Chef's list of the first and second team All Americans is a great start. I would add Chapman, Donoher, Daniels and call it done.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[UDBrian]

TheJoint, I like that list. The only name missing off that list might be Negele simply because of how he put the team on his back for a big NCAA run. Without Negele that team doesn't even play in the NCAA. But, others could argue that Negele was a one year wonder and not worthy of inclusion

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by PerrymanFan I would say Perryman is a must and Corbitt should be up there as well. What about Sedric Toney or Brooks Hall? Although he didn't have the stats to be among the greats, what about the idea of Chris Daniels?

agree about Perryman, not sure about corbitt. toney not with us long enough, and Brooksie a near miss imo. here here for C Daniels!!

My top 5: Uhl, Chappie, Donny May, Paxson, Donny Smith

2nd Five: meineke, Finkl, Johnny Davis, Horan, then it gets tough.
Either Perryman, Roberts, mabye Keith W or Roggenburk.

AND Dandy Don Donoher for sure!

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[RFlyer3]

I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order

1. Ryan Perryman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negale Knight
4. Chris Daniels
5. Tony Stanley

[pkd149]

Even though I liked him a lot, I don't see any room for Brooks Hall.

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[PerrymanFan]

Originally Posted by RFlyer3 I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order 1. Ryan Perryman 2. Brian Roberts 3. Negale Knight 4. Chris Daniels 5. Tony Stanley

Awesome list, but I would replace Stanley with Waleskowski.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by The Chef Using UNC's rules, UD would have seven honorees, all first or second team All-Americans. Schumacher Meineke Uhl Chmielewski Finkel May Paxson You could, in theory, honor Don Donoher because he was an assistant to Bob Knight's 1984 Olympic gold medal team, thus technically making him part of the team. But still, this leaves a lot of heavyweights off the list. Interestingly enough, UD has never had a conference player of the year. (MCC, GMC (ha!), or A10). If you're wondering about guys like John Horan and Garry Roggenburk, they were both third-team All American selections.

I couldn't go along with any set of rules or requirements that would leave Roosevelt Chapman out. IMO, one of the top 3 players to ever wear a Flyer uniform, if not the top.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by RFlyer3 I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order 1. Ryan Perryman 2. Brian Roberts 3. Negale Knight 4. Chris Daniels 5. Tony Stanley

You're leaving out the Velvet Man? Or are you thinking late 80's? I think you're close but here are mine:

1. Roosevelt Chapman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negele Knight
4. Ryan Perryman
5. Tony Stanley