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  #1  
Old 02-28-2019, 11:29 AM
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Star Power: Then and Now

I was thinking back to the 1984 NCAA Tournament a couple of days ago. I still remember fondly the Elite 8 (Final 5, technically) run and the way that Roosevelt Chapman loaded the team up on his shoulders and carried them to win after win. But how did they get into The Dance with an 18-10 record as an independent? Especially after missing both the NCAA and NIT Tournaments the prior year with the identical record? Did someone on the selection committee do a favor for Donoher, AD Frericks, or the university in general? Was there a signature win or two? Or did the NCAA see potential star power in Chapman? If so I give them credit for their foresight. Velvet and UD became the darlings of the tournament right up until the last Elite Eight game was played on a Sunday in LA between our Flyers and the nasty Georgetown Hoyas (anyone remember the chants in the ghetto of "What the F's a Hoya?"?).

As we ponder this current team's seemingly minuscule at-large chances while hoping that Lunardi and others are on to something by having UD as a "Next Four Out" or "First Eight Out", could it be that the emergence of a bona fide star in Obi Toppin sweeps the selection committee away and allows them to veer from the NET rankings a bit and choose the Flyers as an at-large (assuming they win out in the regular season and reach the A10 Tourney finals)?

Other bubble teams have stars, of course, but you don't have to be wearing the red & blue goggles to see the kind of carnival attraction that a kid like this could be in the NCAA Tournament. Would it at least garner some consideration in the selection room? I mean, the committee can always justify the choice by using "eye test" or "gaining steam" phrasing, right? Thoughts?
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
I was thinking back to the 1984 NCAA Tournament a couple of days ago. I still remember fondly the Elite 8 (Final 5, technically) run and the way that Roosevelt Chapman loaded the team up on his shoulders and carried them to win after win. But how did they get into The Dance with an 18-10 record as an independent? Especially after missing both the NCAA and NIT Tournaments the prior year with the identical record? Did someone on the selection committee do a favor for Donoher, AD Frericks, or the university in general? Was there a signature win or two? Or did the NCAA see potential star power in Chapman? If so I give them credit for their foresight. Velvet and UD became the darlings of the tournament right up until the last Elite Eight game was played on a Sunday in LA between our Flyers and the nasty Georgetown Hoyas (anyone remember the chants in the ghetto of "What the F's a Hoya?"?).

As we ponder this current team's seemingly minuscule at-large chances while hoping that Lunardi and others are on to something by having UD as a "Next Four Out" or "First Eight Out", could it be that the emergence of a bona fide star in Obi Toppin sweeps the selection committee away and allows them to veer from the NET rankings a bit and choose the Flyers as an at-large (assuming they win out in the regular season and reach the A10 Tourney finals)?

Other bubble teams have stars, of course, but you don't have to be wearing the red & blue goggles to see the kind of carnival attraction that a kid like this could be in the NCAA Tournament. Would it at least garner some consideration in the selection room? I mean, the committee can always justify the choice by using "eye test" or "gaining steam" phrasing, right? Thoughts?
I have never really bought into the “star power “ thing. A few years ago LSU had Ben Simmons who was one of the top players in the country and they didn’t get in. I do believe that certain “team” names help if you are on the bubble. UCLA and Cuse come to mind in the past few years.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:40 AM
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Here is the Flyers schedule https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-schedule.html

The schedule is loaded with national names. And we beat number 3 DePaul with “the shot “
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:44 AM
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When it comes to NCAA selection committee, anything is possible...

Adding to the "star power" of OBi - Dayton would have an impressive 8-2 record in true road games, and would be 19-5 record over the last 24 games (if they win out and reach the finals and lose).

But... it's supposedly now all all about the NET and Quad victories now.

Whatever happened to the selection committee looking at a team's "whole body of work" ?
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:53 AM
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Not so sure. Murray St. will be interesting if they have another hiccup or two in winding down the regular season and don't win their conf. tourney. They have a top 3-4 pick in the NBA draft in Morant..That kid is show-stopping material right there and a huge draw..
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
Here is the Flyers schedule https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-schedule.html

The schedule is loaded with national names. And we beat number 3 DePaul with “the shot “
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Donoher has said over the years that "the shot" got them in. They also beat Notre Dame. Why they didn't even make the NIT the year before is still a mystery. They beat DePaul and Marquette that season. Don't buy the "star power" thing.

Last edited by longtimefan; 02-28-2019 at 12:00 PM..
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:59 AM
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Excellent post, I’ve pondered the same thing. You have to think it’s at least in the back of their minds. Obi is our Sister Jean. LOL
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:05 PM
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Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins and Brad Daughtery from UNC
Steve Alford @ Indiana
Barkey and Chuck Person @ Auburn
Chris Mullins and Marc Jackson at St Johns
Sam Bowie at UK
Len Bias @ Maryland
Akeem the Dream @ Houston
Ewing @ Georgetown
Tisdale @ OU


All those dudes were either legends in college, and many would become legends in the NBA, at least 5 hall of famers. I doubt the committee looked at UD and thought "you know we really need this Chapman character playing in this thing if we want people to pay attention"


However, if UD should get a boost because Obi thru down a between the legs dunk in the middle of the game, who am I to argue?
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
Here is the Flyers schedule https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-schedule.html

The schedule is loaded with national names. And we beat number 3 DePaul with “the shot “
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Odd that we played Depaul back to back only four days apart. Even after that run in the tournament we couldn't get into the AP top 25?
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Odd that we played Depaul back to back only four days apart. Even after that run in the tournament we couldn't get into the AP top 25?
Nope, no AP poll. But USA Today had a poll back then and Dayton was in their final top 25. I wanna say something like No. 18.

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Old 02-28-2019, 03:45 PM
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We were reliving those magical two weeks from 1984 while waiting on the off ramp of I75 for Saturday's St Louis game. I can still remember where we watched every game. Still ranks as
one of the best times of my life.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Odd that we played Depaul back to back only four days apart. Even after that run in the tournament we couldn't get into the AP top 25?
Dayton and DePaul were scheduled for the last game of the season, but 1 of the 3 networks wanted DePaul/Notre Dsme for that week. The compromise was move the game, and get on the network. I can't remember if it was ABC or NBC.
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Old 02-28-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Donoher has said over the years that "the shot" got them in. They also beat Notre Dame. Why they didn't even make the NIT the year before is still a mystery. They beat DePaul and Marquette that season. Don't buy the "star power" thing.
One other detail: back then, The Committee used true “gaining steam” as a consideration, and our Flyers were 11-3 in the 2nd half of the regular season. I need to note that it happened after Coach Donoher decided to use his 5 best players as much as possible, which meant that we had a 6’7”, 195 pound Center and a 6’4”, 205 pound Power Forward.

Over the entire season, that record would project to 22-6, against what UDEE79 had noted was a pretty formidable schedule. That’s why 18-10 had us dancing in 1984.
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Old 02-28-2019, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Dayton and DePaul were scheduled for the last game of the season, but 1 of the 3 networks wanted DePaul/Notre Dsme for that week. The compromise was move the game, and get on the network. I can't remember if it was ABC or NBC.
I think it was NBC
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I think it was NBC
It was NBC with Don Criqui (sp)? and Bucky Waters!! Criqui stated after Young’s shot, “And we go to overtime, er, Dayton wins it”!! What a game!!
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 1in25 View Post
It was NBC with Don Criqui (sp)? and Bucky Waters!! Criqui stated after Young’s shot, “And we go to overtime, er, Dayton wins it”!! What a game!!
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I've seen the replays, but didnt watch it live on TV as I was lucky enough to be there. What a game it was! What a day it was, too! We were following my brother when someone coming from the other way turned left in front of him. Heavy damage to both cars, but no injuries. We all got to the game on time!
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:18 PM
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My senior year. Great memories in the ghetto during that run.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Nope, no AP poll. But USA Today had a poll back then and Dayton was in their final top 25. I wanna say something like No. 18.
All True!

Strong schedule
The shot!
Big finish to year
Dont forget we were an independent also, no conference.

Last, I was there

At the shot game.
At the rec center watching us CRUSH Tisdale and OU

AND MORE
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:54 PM
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If we didnt win final game against Old Dominion, we wouldn't have gotten in. We won by 1 point!

Grrat Michigan team whooped us early innthectear.

Maryland I listened NY radio. We were winning most of thecway... lost my 1 against Bias and Driesell.

Really great year, even if record was 18 and 10. We would die for a schedule like that. Plus as an INDEPENDENT L, we could get the great teams
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Nope, no AP poll. But USA Today had a poll back then and Dayton was in their final top 25. I wanna say something like No. 18.
All True!

Strong schedule
The shot!
Big finish to year
Dont forget we were an independent also, no conference.

Last, I was there

At the shot game.
At the Fieldhouse Rec center watching us CRUSH Tisdale and OU

AND MORE

Last edited by Flyer 86; 03-01-2019 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
My senior year. Great memories in the ghetto during that run.
Same here. Was a Senior in the Pep Band. Got trampled at the end of the DePaul game as students rushed the court, but it was worth it. Had to miss the Salt Lake trip because of midterms and a Fortune 500 job interview, but made the LA trip, and have 2 funny stories as a result.

On Saturday, we beat Oklahoma in a mid-afternoon contest, and got to watch it on the widescreen that UD had setup in the Fieldhouse (Frericks Center). Went back to my house in The Ghetto, and 3 of my housemates were sitting on the steps with sad sack looks on their faces. I said, “Why are you guys so depressed?! We’re going to The Sweet Sixteen! We’ve got a shot to be in the Final Four! Uhhh...where’s the couch?” In unison, without saying a word, they gestured with their thumbs to the corner of Kiefaber and Lawnview, where a mountain of debris was in the middle of the intersection, with flames blazing 20 feet high. Yep. There was the couch.

So, we conned, er, talked our landlord into letting us have a beat-up old couch as a replacement for the rest of the school year. He did, and one of my housemates went so far as to bolt it to our concrete porch. “They’re not getting this one, by God!” Well, I went on the LA trip with the Pep Band, and flew home late on Sunday after losing to Georgetown. I got back to my house, looked at the porch, and saw 24 angle brackets still attached to the porch...but no couch attached to the angle brackets. The next day, I asked, “Washington?” The reply: “Washington...”

Ahh, the good, old days...
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:53 PM
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here is my "the Shot" game story: I was a Junior at UD and my former room mate who graduated in '83 was working the news at WVUD, as such he was entitled to a seat on press row. He was unable to use it and offered it to me. I scrounged around and found a tie and suitable clothes to wear. He had informed me that I should be on my best behavior. My seat was at the far end of press row away from my normal spot in the student section. Anyone who was there will know how electric the arena was that day. I do believe it was a day game, so I had only had a few pregame beverages. It did not take long for me to react to plays/ref calls in a way that was inappropriate for those on press row. I received a warning from those around me to tone it down. I made it through the first half. Early in the second half there was a ref call I believed was inaccurate. I may have stood up and yelled. During the next stoppage of play the SID(can't remember his name), came over and asked me to join him over in the tunnel. I was instructed that I was no longer a member of press row. I was able to sweet talk him into letting me watch the rest of the game from the tunnel near the end of the Flyer bench. I was there to see "the Shot" right in front of me. Joined all the fans onto the court for the celebration. As I stated earlier in the thread, the two week NCAA run was one of the best times of my life.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Same here. Was a Senior in the Pep Band. Got trampled at the end of the DePaul game as students rushed the court, but it was worth it. Had to miss the Salt Lake trip because of midterms and a Fortune 500 job interview, but made the LA trip, and have 2 funny stories as a result.

On Saturday, we beat Oklahoma in a mid-afternoon contest, and got to watch it on the widescreen that UD had setup in the Fieldhouse (Frericks Center). Went back to my house in The Ghetto, and 3 of my housemates were sitting on the steps with sad sack looks on their faces. I said, “Why are you guys so depressed?! We’re going to The Sweet Sixteen! We’ve got a shot to be in the Final Four! Uhhh...where’s the couch?” In unison, without saying a word, they gestured with their thumbs to the corner of Kiefaber and Lawnview, where a mountain of debris was in the middle of the intersection, with flames blazing 20 feet high. Yep. There was the couch.

So, we conned, er, talked our landlord into letting us have a beat-up old couch as a replacement for the rest of the school year. He did, and one of my housemates went so far as to bolt it to our concrete porch. “They’re not getting this one, by God!” Well, I went on the LA trip with the Pep Band, and flew home late on Sunday after losing to Georgetown. I got back to my house, looked at the porch, and saw 24 angle brackets still attached to the porch...but no couch attached to the angle brackets. The next day, I asked, “Washington?” The reply: “Washington...”

Ahh, the good, old days...
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We burnt a couch my senior year at the intersection of Lawnview and Kiefaber. I think it was maybe April timeframe, perhaps just a delayed reaction to the Flyers finishing 7-20 that year with an 0-12, last place finish in the final year of the Great Midwest?
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:22 PM
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I'll never forget Coach Donoher running halfway up the tunnel, only to turn around to high five a fan leaning over the railing with the most awkward, but joyous, high five any human being has ever given. That building was shaking. Or it might have been my knees quivering from the adrenaline rush.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
I'll never forget Coach Donoher running halfway up the tunnel, only to turn around to high five a fan leaning over the railing with the most awkward, but joyous, high five any human being has ever given.

Pretty sure that was his son. I was in my mid-thirties at that game and ended up on the floor in the middle of all the chaos. I don't even remember how I got there. When I got home my wife noticed that my knee was bleeding. I hadn't even noticed. Great game!!!

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Old 03-02-2019, 02:29 AM
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I was stuck up in the 400s for that one. But I was there! And I remember the absolutely electric atmosphere that day as people settled into their seats and the pep band played. It just felt like something amazing might happen that day.

I guess it was Raymond McCoy at the line whose miss set up Schelly to Velvet to Young? As he stepped to the charity stripe I remember the place already going bonkers and me yelling, "You suck! Miss it!" When "the shot" fell home (the original "Kiss To Be Remembered in Dayton" before Vee would hit his 30 years later) it was mayhem. And it WAS amazing. I wasn't at the Pitt game to compare but it's the loudest I've ever witnessed a game at the Arena.

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Old 03-02-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
I was stuck up in the 400s for that one. But I was there! And I remember the absolutely electric atmosphere that day as people settled into their seats and the pep band played. It just felt like something amazing might happen that day.

I guess it was Raymond McCoy at the line whose miss set up Schelly to Velvet to Young? As he stepped to the charity stripe I remember the place already going bonkers and me yelling, "You suck! Miss it!" When "the shot" fell home (the original "Kiss To Be Remembered in Dayton" before Vee would hit his 30 years later) it was mayhem. And it WAS amazing. I wasn't at the Pitt game to compare but it's the loudest I've ever witnessed a game at the Arena.
You’re right, it was Raymond McCoy (a Chicago kid, who had gone to San Francisco out of HS, then transferred back home to DePaul) who missed that shot. And it still speaks to Schelly’s determination that he was able to get that rebound between 2 Blue Demons (Embry and Corbin, I believe) who had 3”-6” on him.

But as loud as it was that day, I still maintain that the loudest crowd ever at The Arena was in 1974, for the ND game, when the Irish were #2 in the country and had ended UCLA’s 88-game winning streak earlier that season. Was a few days away from my 12th birthday, so Mom let me sit in the Lower Arena with Dad while she sat in the Upper Arena with my sister. Still one of the best birthday presents I ever got. And where I sat that day was the same location I sat last night for that mess against URI.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:35 AM
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Was it Embry who made the free throw to put DePaul up 12 before it was waved off for stepping on the line?
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:53 AM
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1974, I was at the top of the 400 section. It was so loud, that I could not hear my father say something to me. He was sitting next to me.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Was it Embry who made the free throw to put DePaul up 12 before it was waved off for stepping on the line?
Was trying to search the web for the game record, but no luck so far. I did, however, find an article from 2005 about the 18 greatest games in Arena history (involving any teams, at any level), and was happy to see that I was there for at least 12 of them. Great memories.

Too bad I can’t remember the lane violation you mentioned. :P
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
1974, I was at the top of the 400 section. It was so loud, that I could not hear my father say something to me. He was sitting next to me.
Yes, many a garage in The Ghetto lost its life later that night.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Same here. Was a Senior in the Pep Band. Got trampled at the end of the DePaul game as students rushed the court, but it was worth it. Had to miss the Salt Lake trip because of midterms and a Fortune 500 job interview, but made the LA trip, and have 2 funny stories as a result.

On Saturday, we beat Oklahoma in a mid-afternoon contest, and got to watch it on the widescreen that UD had setup in the Fieldhouse (Frericks Center). Went back to my house in The Ghetto, and 3 of my housemates were sitting on the steps with sad sack looks on their faces. I said, “Why are you guys so depressed?! We’re going to The Sweet Sixteen! We’ve got a shot to be in the Final Four! Uhhh...where’s the couch?” In unison, without saying a word, they gestured with their thumbs to the corner of Kiefaber and Lawnview, where a mountain of debris was in the middle of the intersection, with flames blazing 20 feet high. Yep. There was the couch.

So, we conned, er, talked our landlord into letting us have a beat-up old couch as a replacement for the rest of the school year. He did, and one of my housemates went so far as to bolt it to our concrete porch. “They’re not getting this one, by God!” Well, I went on the LA trip with the Pep Band, and flew home late on Sunday after losing to Georgetown. I got back to my house, looked at the porch, and saw 24 angle brackets still attached to the porch...but no couch attached to the angle brackets. The next day, I asked, “Washington?” The reply: “Washington...”

Ahh, the good, old days...
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Was in the field house too! What a blast. My buddies & I made the 11PM news posing with the fire department in the ghetto while all the furniture was burning. We partied until the sun came up. Amazing time and amazing atmosphere.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:00 PM
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I thought I clicked on the"Star Power" thread... but must of hit the "One time... at band camp" thread instead
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
I thought I clicked on the"Star Power" thread... but must of hit the "One time... at band camp" thread instead
Think of it as “band camp, with Keith Richards”
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
I thought I clicked on the"Star Power" thread... but must of hit the "One time... at band camp" thread instead
Watch those flutes.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
1974, I was at the top of the 400 section. It was so loud, that I could not hear my father say something to me. He was sitting next to me.
I was in section 115 and it was just as loud. My dad died right after the previous year and we were both lifelong UD fans and I had graduated 4 yrs earlier. I stood most of the game with tears in my eyes (like now) wishing that he was there to see how great this game was. The end of this season was magical and ranks as one of the greatest I had the opportunity to see! Someday I hope to see an AG team have as great of a season with a super Non Conf and Conf schedule. It would be outstanding to play UofL, ND, UC, Marquette, and turn down X as being beneath us and no longer considered as a rival like the aforementioned teams! I never want to see an X fan in the Arena again but would gladly meet them as a No. 1 seed in a 1st round game where they would be a ??? seed in a low conference rep as a tourney champ!!!!

Go Flyers!!!!

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Old 03-03-2019, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
But as loud as it was that day, I still maintain that the loudest crowd ever at The Arena was in 1974, for the ND game, when the Irish were #2 in the country and had ended UCLA’s 88-game winning streak earlier that season.
I too was up in the 400s for that one, in the next to the last row. I swear that i could feel the Arena rocking back and forth.

Years later, I was at the Pitt game, but sitting on press row. The crowd was unbelievably loud that day, but I still give the noisiest crowd nod to the ND game.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:28 AM
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First home win against Notre Dame was 1970, 95-79. Crowd was deafening that game also.
Still have a photo of the final on the scoreboard.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:18 AM
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Ah the 1984 tournament run, was the last time I clutched the porcelain bowl,.... after being "overserved" when celebrating the defeat of Deadlip Shrimp and Washington.
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