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  #1  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:18 PM
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AM Left AG with NOTHING

It's going to be a long season. Accept it.
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:22 PM
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Completely agree. We can't judge AG till year 3-4 now
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:49 PM
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Since you guys want to give AG a pass why don't you check out what a couple former AM players think. Wherli and Pollard aren't impressed from this thread of tweets by them.

https://twitter.com/bwehrli_10/statu...47389198430209
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:54 PM
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Many are and will be in the blame Archie stage of grief for the next 2-3 years
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Many are and will be in the blame Archie stage of grief for the next 2-3 years
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Do you think I'm blaming Archie?

I'm not. I'm blaming Grant just so we're clear.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:02 PM
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Not you, there's a sizeable portion of this board that are blaming Archie and I suspect will for years to come to cover for AG
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Not you, there's a sizeable portion of this board that are blaming Archie and I suspect will for years to come to cover for AG
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Gotcha. As I have stated since the day he was hired I fear the "he's an Alumnus" and "he's a great person" faction of the fanbase the most.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:19 PM
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Here's the question: if Anthony Grant wasn't a UD graduate, would you Be excited to have him as your coach?
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  #9  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
Here's the question: if Anthony Grant wasn't a UD graduate, would you have been excited to have him as your coach?
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If AG wasn't a UD graduate, he wouldn't be the HC of the Flyers.
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If AG wasn't a UD graduate, he wouldn't be the HC of the Flyers.
This is 1000% true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
Here's the question: if Anthony Grant wasn't a UD graduate, would you have been excited to have him as your coach?
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I wasn't excited to have him as the coach from Day 1.

I hope he succeeds but in no way did I think he was the right choice.

And for those of you who don't believe that go look at my posts from the day he was hired.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If AG wasn't a UD graduate, he wouldn't be the HC of the Flyers.
He wouldn't be coaching in college basketball
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:31 PM
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Ok. He is the current head coach. No reason to belabor the point.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Ok. He is the current head coach. No reason to belabor the point.
And hopefully he succeeds and turns it around.

But he shouldn't be given a free pass for 5 or 6 years because he is a good guy and an alumnus.

We shouldn't be barred from criticizing him
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:13 PM
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What other coach who averaged a kenpom ranking of 60 or better over 9 years of college coaching was coming to Dayton? BTW Archie averaged something like 56 over his 6 years at Dayton. What other coach would even talk to Dayton who had the AD of FL jetting to pick him up when Billy Donavan orally accepted the Orlando Magic job?

Yes AG would not have even considered Dayton but for being an alum. Neil Sullivan believed AG was the best candidate. Neil realizes his career depends on AG doing well. He did not hire AG because he was an alum nor did he hire him to raise money for the arena (it was basically raised already). AG and Neil Sullivan will not get free passes because AG is an alum and both are good guys — they both explicitly understand this.

I have no idea whether AG will work out, but I have a ton of confidence in Neil Sullivan’s process in selecting AG. I have confidence that AG knows how to build winning programs based upon his experience at FL, VCU, Bama, and OKC.

I also am confident that if Neil was the AD of Bama during AG’s tenure, Bama would have made the NCAA 1-2 more times due to Neil’s scheduling expertise. I also am confident Dayton would NOT have made the tourney in 2014 or 2015 without Neil scheduling — he Is that good at manipulating the RPI. Top 5 in the country.
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And hopefully he succeeds and turns it around.

But he shouldn't be given a free pass for 5 or 6 years because he is a good guy and an alumnus.

We shouldn't be barred from criticizing him
I agree, on all counts. But there’s a huge difference between being given a free pass for 5-6 years and for 15-18 games. My point is simply that Anthony was dealt a cupboard that was as bare as any in recent UD memory, and that he should be given @ 3 years or so to prove that his system can work at UD.

Also, I need to state that I was one of the guys who was willing to give Archie more time when he was 1-5 in-con in Year 3. That all turned out pretty well. So, let’s give AG some time now that he’s 6-7 overall in Year 1.

But yes, we should all feel free to offer criticism when it’s warranted. Lord knows, I will.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
...I have a ton of confidence in Neil Sullivan’s process in selecting AG.
What makes you say that? This is Neil's first bball hc hire IINM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And hopefully he succeeds and turns it around.

But he shouldn't be given a free pass for 5 or 6 years because he is a good guy and an alumnus.

We shouldn't be barred from criticizing him
Why can't you guys get it through your head. Nobody wants to bar anyone from criticizing Anthony Grant.

What we are saying is these posts about how people think he sucks and have always thought he sucks, and how we are going to ruin the program by giving him 2-3 years are ridiculous.

We are in uncharted territory here. Criticize his offense all you want. But if you are going to pronounce him a failure now, you'll get called out for it. And if he eventually is a failure, no one is going to pat you on the back for it. In fact, nobody gives a sh!t.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Why can't you guys get it through your head. Nobody wants to bar anyone from criticizing Anthony Grant.

What we are saying is these posts about how people think he sucks and have always thought he sucks, and how we are going to ruin the program by giving him 2-3 years are ridiculous.

We are in uncharted territory here. Criticize his offense all you want. But if you are going to pronounce him a failure now, you'll get called out for it. And if he eventually is a failure, no one is going to pat you on the back for it. In fact, nobody gives a sh!t.
Might not ruin the program but ruin chances of getting into the Big East or AAC & increase the chances of getting left behind in the A10
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:48 PM
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We're not getting in the Big East, ever. Days of huge rights fees are over. The leaders of the initial Big East split are wizards at fleecing FOX how they did. Their next contract will be less than half of this one and certainly won't be including expansion.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:54 PM
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I agree that the rights fees will go down but it's still a better conference. The pressure could be there for an 11th or more teams to get to a 20 game schedule with the scheduling pressures from the power 5 moving to 20
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And hopefully he succeeds and turns it around.

But he shouldn't be given a free pass for 5 or 6 years because he is a good guy and an alumnus.

We shouldn't be barred from criticizing him
Please apply for the head coaching job at UD. You are obviously qualified
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Not you, there's a sizeable portion of this board that are blaming Archie and I suspect will for years to come to cover for AG
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It's a simple FACT. No one is blaming anyone. AM left the Cubard bare of talent.
I'm willing to give AG a CHANCE to replenish it. 2 years, his recruits. If not, then we are toast and let the negativity RAIN down on this forum. Until then, chill...
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
It's a simple FACT. No one is blaming anyone. AM left the Cubard bare of talent.
I'm willing to give AG a CHANCE to replenish it. 2 years, his recruits. If not, then we are toast and let the negativity RAIN down on this forum. Until then, chill...
He may have left the Cubard bare, maybe not. But that's because I'm still trying to figure out what a Cubard is.

While we knew this would be a down year compared to years past, I don't think anyone thought this would be a true rebuilding year; I think many thought this would be more of a reloading year with rebuilding moments because the cupboard was not left bare. Yes we graduated 4 senior starters, but there is talent on this roster. MORE than enough talent to beat the preseason #14 team in Duquense.

Here is the biggest difference IMO. AM knew how to get the most out of his kids, and develop them. While player development was an issue under BG, under AM guys got better not just year over year, but game over game. Look at X last year. KP his sophomore year. Bobby Wherli went from bench warmer to playing meaningful minutes on an NCAA tournament team. From game 1 until now in the AG era, who has improved? I honestly can't answer that. Yes JC, Trey and DD are better year over year, but in our first 13 games who has improved the most? I largely think everyone is playing at the same level as they did against Ball St. That's the problem. Cupboard is not bare when referring to talent on roster. Cupboard is bare when referring to AG adapting to this rosters strengths and getting most out of guys.

To be clear, I'm not bashing AG. But what we are doing clearly isn't working, so he needs to switch something up in how we prep for games and how guys work to develop on non game prep days.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:07 AM
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  • Flyers lose all senior leadership and skilled players to graduation
  • Cunningham isn't nearly as good as I, or we thought he was. Nice player but not even a top A-10 player
  • Baby D can't carry the load cause it's not his thing and he is prone to bonehead lapses at inopportune times
  • Flyers best PGs are freshmen who are talented but raw
  • Our other option at PG? - (See comments about DD).
  • They've got no focus when playing with a lead and they aren't a good enough "team" to play from behind.
Not sure I'm ready make any judgments or reach any conclusions about AG just yet....And yes, there is something to be said about hiring an Alum - with bonefides - at a program like UD, to shake off the downside of being "coaches stepping stone" program...IMO

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Old 12-31-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
He may have left the Cubard bare, maybe not. But that's because I'm still trying to figure out what a Cubard is.

While we knew this would be a down year compared to years past, I don't think anyone thought this would be a true rebuilding year; I think many thought this would be more of a reloading year with rebuilding moments because the cupboard was not left bare. Yes we graduated 4 senior starters, but there is talent on this roster. MORE than enough talent to beat the preseason #14 team in Duquense.

Here is the biggest difference IMO. AM knew how to get the most out of his kids, and develop them. While player development was an issue under BG, under AM guys got better not just year over year, but game over game. Look at X last year. KP his sophomore year. Bobby Wherli went from bench warmer to playing meaningful minutes on an NCAA tournament team. From game 1 until now in the AG era, who has improved? I honestly can't answer that. Yes JC, Trey and DD are better year over year, but in our first 13 games who has improved the most? I largely think everyone is playing at the same level as they did against Ball St. That's the problem. Cupboard is not bare when referring to talent on roster. Cupboard is bare when referring to AG adapting to this rosters strengths and getting most out of guys.

To be clear, I'm not bashing AG. But what we are doing clearly isn't working, so he needs to switch something up in how we prep for games and how guys work to develop on non game prep days.
At this point, I wouldn't even consider this a rebuilding year. In order to be rebuilding, you have to be putting pieces into place to make you successful in the future. AG hasn't even really started, he's mostly putting the pieces he was able to cobble together.

Not sure what was out there from a transfer/juco perspective, but that may have been better than trying to keep a bunch of AMs recruits. Outside of Jordan Davis, not sure any of them will even be here in a year or two.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:57 AM
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Just a reminder, Dayton lost 73-83 @ the Dukes in 2015. They were 12-19 and #217. This year they are 10-4 and #198. On the other hand, Archie was 5-1 at Duquesne and the 2015 team had only 48 hours between games and as we all know, Dayton was short-handed that year.

Btw, kinda ironic that Archie and Anthony are having their worst years ever this year and much worse than their predecessors past 6 years. Archie's Indiana team at #90 and Crean averaged #29 the last 6 years so -61. Archie averaged #53 while at Dayton. Anthony and Dayton #140 and Archie averaged 53 the last 6 seasons so -87. Anthony averaged #58 in his 9 years of coaching.

BTW, Alabama under Avery Johnson averaging #67 in his 2.5 seasons at Alabama, slight regression st Alabama which is not an easy to place to win at.

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  #28  
Old 12-31-2017, 12:01 PM
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Thoughts

Here are a couple thoughts to consider:

AM would have a better record than 6-7 at this point in the season. Why? Because the players here now were brought in for his system. That said, even with AM the talent on this team is not NCAA tournament caliber. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

The cupboard was more bare than it has been in many years. That is not a knock on AM. This team would be much different with Steve McElvene as a junior, Ryan Mikesell, and the PG at Colorado. However, this team is this team and lacks playmakers. You can't blame AG for that.

I'm not a fan SO FAR of AG's offensive schemes. I do like the zone he is employing. My hunch is that AG is using a zone because he doesn't believe the skill set (or experience) is there to play MtM. I also think this same lack of skill set and experience is limiting his offensive schemes.

AG will get the players that match his system. I believe he will recruit players at a level beyond what AM was able to do. This isn't based on some rose colored glasses viewpoint. He was a top recruiter at Florida. Cohill is a player that AM wouldn't even go after. The staff has contacts in many places.

Next year this team loses DD. While DD is doing well this year, he still has holes in his game. Next year this team will have 4 Sophomores who played a lot as Freshmen, a healthy Mikesell, Toppin, Cohill, and 1 or 2 more recruits to go with Cunningham, X, Landers (who in reality is a redshirt freshman this year), and Crosby.

If next year's team starts 6-7 I guarantee you the sharks will be out smelling blood (myself included). All most on this board are saying is it is patently unfair to judge AG so soon in his UD coaching career.

I'll close by saying I'm a Cleveland Browns fan so I'm used to being patient. I have no choice...
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
BTW, Alabama under Avery Johnson averaging #67 in his 2.5 seasons at Alabama, slight regression st Alabama which is not an easy to place to win at.
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Alabama will probably make the NCAAT this year, currently projected to finish at rpi #51.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just a reminder, Dayton lost 73-83 @ the Dukes in 2015. They were 12-19 and #217. This year they are 10-4 and #198. On the other hand, Archie was 5-1 at Duquesne and the 2015 team had only 48 hours between games and as we all know, Dayton was short-handed that year.

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Please don’t mistake this for an excuse. UD has not played well in Pittsburgh for a long time. The team plays flat there just about every year. They have won some games but held on for ugly wins.

Last year, they laid an egg during the A10 tournament.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
He may have left the Cubard bare, maybe not. But that's because I'm still trying to figure out what a Cubard is.

While we knew this would be a down year compared to years past, I don't think anyone thought this would be a true rebuilding year; I think many thought this would be more of a reloading year with rebuilding moments because the cupboard was not left bare. Yes we graduated 4 senior starters, but there is talent on this roster. MORE than enough talent to beat the preseason #14 team in Duquense.

Here is the biggest difference IMO. AM knew how to get the most out of his kids, and develop them. While player development was an issue under BG, under AM guys got better not just year over year, but game over game. Look at X last year. KP his sophomore year. Bobby Wherli went from bench warmer to playing meaningful minutes on an NCAA tournament team. From game 1 until now in the AG era, who has improved? I honestly can't answer that. Yes JC, Trey and DD are better year over year, but in our first 13 games who has improved the most? I largely think everyone is playing at the same level as they did against Ball St. That's the problem. Cupboard is not bare when referring to talent on roster. Cupboard is bare when referring to AG adapting to this rosters strengths and getting most out of guys.

To be clear, I'm not bashing AG. But what we are doing clearly isn't working, so he needs to switch something up in how we prep for games and how guys work to develop on non game prep days.
You really think Crosby got better under Archie????? He has been somewhat better this year but still not where he needs to be. Trey didn't play under Archie so he didn't improve or not that anyone saw in game time. Mikesell has been the same from day one here. Sam Miller.....

Under AG Crosby has shown some improvement...some
Trey has played so he has gotten better by playing time alone. He is catching up with the speed of the game. Not sure where his position on the floor should be. Very undersized for a PF but a brick and not sure his jumper is good enough to be a SF and not a SG.

DD was a much better defender from his freshman year to his junior year under Archie for sure. This year he has finished better around the rim and all of his shooting stats are better this year over the last two years. So has AG made him better or has being a senior made him better?

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Old 12-31-2017, 03:07 PM
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Where is this talent some of you mention that Grant was left with. Besides Cunningham, DD and Jordan there is little. Then look at experience, Cunningham played only a few games plus his frosh year, Crosby played sparingly, Williams played a bunch but can't this year, Landers never played. DD is the only really experienced player. How about recruits? We have one, Jordan, and the rest are projects. How can anyone judge Grant's overall coaching. Question his sub pattern, his offense, his defense, but his big picture performance judgement is silliness.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:32 PM
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One thing I will hold Grant responsible for is if he does not get rid of 2 or 3 of these players and replace them with good recruits or transfers, and I mean at the end of this year. Cunningham and Jordan are the only untouchables.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Where is this talent some of you mention that Grant was left with. Besides Cunningham, DD and Jordan there is little. Then look at experience, Cunningham played only a few games plus his frosh year, Crosby played sparingly, Williams played a bunch but can't this year, Landers never played. DD is the only really experienced player.
I'm getting kind of tired of the 'we have no talent or experience' excuse. There are excuses and there are reasons; stop making excuses. It's not like 5 guys were kicked off the team, or our best player broke their leg. This is the roster AG has had for 8+months and we can't beat the preseason #14 team in A10. We are 6-7 and should be 4-9. It's time we stop making excuses as to why we have sucked. The reasons are because our guys haven't developed from game 1 to now, and we aren't drawing up sets on offense that get the most out of our guys.

First, on experience. JCunn is a junior who played 30MPG his frosh year and 15MPG last year. He has been in college 3.5 years. He averages dam near a double double. He is experienced. DD is a senior averaging 17 a game. Crosby and X are upperclassmen. Yes we have alot freshman but Svoboda is like 37 and KA has been in the program for a year already. I can see how 'experience' would help in the NCAA tournament, but stop making excuses as to lack of experience is why we can't beat Duquesne in a high school gym. If anything the HS gym should be more comfortable for our guys without experience. In 2015 we had half a roster without 'experience'. 6 scholarship players (3 soph, 1 senior, 1 jr and 1 frosh) and a walk on. Did AM make the excuse that we should accept mediocrity because over half of our roster was 'lacking experience'? Heck no! He and the team adapted. Yes that roster had more talent, but this roster isn't so bad to be under .500.

Second thing on talent...
Yes this roster has holes. But not so many holes to be 6-7. JCunn is good. DD is good. JD is a good shooter. Crutcher has played well and has a better A:T ratio than SS his fresh year along with more PPG, APG, RBG, SPG and FT%. XW proved last year he can be a good player. KA has the potential to finish this season with one of the highest block totals in school history.
What we don't have is versatility -- guys that can 'do it all'. Largely, our players are much more 1-dimensional than years past so it's time we work to our strengths and set a rotation with guys that compliment each other. Don't leave KA and XW on the bench for an entire half. If we keep the same guys out there for 8 minutes at a time and we aren't exposing mismatches, we become the mismatch. We have talent, we just aren't utilizing it to it's potential.

We aren't developing our players and evolving. Like I said in my earlier post, who has developed the most from game 1 to game 13? I honestly can't answer that. If we aren't developing our players and evolving our game plans to our strengths, where does that blame fall? It's not experience and talent. It's coaching.

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Old 01-01-2018, 01:33 PM
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Have to disagree on the assessment of players. Way overrated.
Josh played one year, was hurt during redshirt year and did not play. He came back too early and played well below his true talent at the of last season.

Svoboda is not 37 and arrived late on campus, not in the spring. I saw him in practice and he was awful on defense.

Kostas was away from campus all summer, then was hurt.

It is obvious Williams is hurt. UD never fully discloses injuries.

There have other injuries this season that have not been fully disclosed.

Please don’t make use believe that the roster had been together for a year, deep on experience and fully grasping Anthony’s system.

This is not a hall pass. This team has NOT developed from game 1. I do believe that lack of talent, injuries, trying to learn a new system etc. have all contributed. They have to overcome that and have not been successful.

These are not excuses. The team has to overcome them and so far has failed to do so.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Have to disagree on the assessment of players. Way overrated.
Josh played one year, was hurt during redshirt year and did not play. He came back too early and played well below his true talent at the of last season.

Svoboda is not 37 and arrived late on campus, not in the spring. I saw him in practice and he was awful on defense.

Kostas was away from campus all summer, then was hurt.

It is obvious Williams is hurt. UD never fully discloses injuries.

There have other injuries this season that have not been fully disclosed.

Please don’t make use believe that the roster had been together for a year, deep on experience and fully grasping Anthony’s system.

This is not a hall pass. This team has NOT developed from game 1. I do believe that lack of talent, injuries, trying to learn a new system etc. have all contributed. They have to overcome that and have not been successful.

These are not excuses. The team has to overcome them and so far has failed to do so.
I agree with your comments at the end. This group of players lead by their coaches have not overcome adversity like in years past.

But please don't let my bad attempt at a humorous eggageration deter from the point on experiemce:

You're right, Svoboda isn't 37. He's 21 and was playing semi-pro ball in Europe with NBA talent. To me that doesn't scream inexperience. Far more than your normal freshman.

JCunn is a guy who has been in college 3.5 years. He has been around the block. He's our captain. Yes he has been hurt throughout his career, but he has plenty of experience on and off the court dealing with 3 different coaches in four years while playing 1200 minutes going into this year. All things considered he is arguably our most experienced guy.

You're also right on KA. After a year with the team, he was away all summer then got hurt. What was he doing away? Training with the NBA MVP and playing in amature tournaments in Europe representing his country. I bet he didn't learn anything. Screams inexperience.

Injuries have happened before. Suspensions and expulsions have happened. We sadly even had a player pass away. However in years past these weren't excuses, it was next man up philosophy, regardless of experience. And now we are using injuries as an excuse for poor play and mediocrity. If the next man up isn't ready, that's on AG for lack of prep. AM set the bar high and so far I don't see AG and staff even coming close to touching it.

Yes, everyone is inexperienced with AG system, but that's what he gets paid to do: teach and develop them. How's he doing? Our guys didn't get stupid overnight. Look on Twitter....even Bobby Wherli is critiquing AG style and saying how much more simple it is than AM. If they can learn AM complicated system, then AG has done a poor job teaching them his simple system or tweaking it to play to our strengths.
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:37 PM
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This is an interesting thread. The shots that have been taken at AG are absolutely unfair (IMHO).

The cuboard was really, really, really bare... Shame on you Archie

I went back and tried to piece together the team that Brian left vs. Archie -

Brian left the following team:

- Kevin Dillard (Jr)
- Josh Benson (Sr)
- Chris Johnson (Sr)
- Devon Oliver (So)
- Josh Parker (Sr)
- Paul Williams (Sr)
- Luke Fabrizius (Sr)
- Matt Kavanaugh (Jr)
- Ralph Hill (So)
- Juwan Staten (So)...thank the Lord that he transferred

I give this team a B+ or A- (even without Staten)

Archie Recruited:

- Vee Sanford (Great)
- Devon Scott (You decide)
- Jalen Robinson (You decide)
- Jevon Thomas ... he never suited up
- Matt Derenbecker (Flop)
- Alex Garilovic (Should not have been a flop ... but was)

I give these recruits a C+

Here is the team that Archie left Anthony (which many think should be a contender)

- Josh Cunningham (Great)
- Darrel Davis (Great this year...under Anthony)
- Trey Landers (Constantly improving player...under Anthony)
- Matej Svoboda (Disappointing so far)
- Kostas Antetokounmpo (TBD...very raw but a great recruit...what was he doing his Red Shirt year?)
- Jordan Pierce (TBD...remember Kavanaugh)
- John Crosby (absolutely pathetic under Archibald...improved and very serviceable under Anthony)
- Xeyrius Williams (I think that Anthony screwed this guy up...forget about the injury excuse)
- Ryan Mikesell (Serviceable...but broken)

I give this team a C- ... This is a below 50% team ... even if we enlist the help of the "Wizard of Westwood" this team will have a losing season. I blame this on Archie not Anthony. Give Anthony a break for at least the next couple of years...the cupboard was really, really broken.

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Old 01-01-2018, 07:33 PM
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Just looking at the UD statistics page there are a few absolutely glaring statistics.

Here's the first set:
9/42 .214
4/17 .235
11/47 .234
1/9 .111
5/27 .185

When you have 5 guys combining for over 40% of your 3 point attempts and shooting a combined 21% on those attempts, it's hard to win. (That's X, Crosby, Crutcher, Kostas, and Svodoba.) Anyone attempting 3-pointers should be hitting 30% of them. Combined, this group should hit 33%. If they were making those shots, there would be something like 50 more points on the board this season, which would add up to a couple more wins.

And here's the second set:
32/18
38/20

Our two point guards both have an assist/turnover ratio under 2. And two of our other three guards (DDavis and Landers) have A/TO ratios under 1.

Cure those ills and it's a completely different season.


On the good side, Kostas is shooting an incredible 66.7% on 2-pointers. Only to be overshadowed by Cunningham's mind-boggling 74.7% on 2-pointers. Davis, Davis, and Landers are all over 40% on 3-point shots, and Cunningham is averaging a double-double.

In short, we have 2 players who are playing really well (Jordan Davis, Cunningham) and 2 making solid contributions (DDavis, Landers). Then we have 5 players who are simply not living up to expectations. X has a good track record but seems to be hurt. Kostas has been inconsistent but has huge upside. Svoboda has a good track record in international play but has been a disappointment so far. For all 3, there is reason to expect significant improvement. Then the point guards. Neither one is hitting shots or protecting the ball well enough, and this at what is perhaps the most important position. If either one could hit 35% on threes and maintain a 3-1 A/TO ratio, the other one might be reduced to under 10 minutes per game. But so far neither one has risen to that level. At least they both hit their free throws at a good rate.

Oh, and another guy in Jordan Pierce who is a project that might pay dividends in future seasons.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:56 PM
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Does nobody on this site know how to spell? or have spell check on their computer?

It's a cupboard folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a Cubard or a Cuboard. SMH

Last edited by C-time; 01-01-2018 at 08:01 PM..
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:07 PM
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If the roster is the problem does nice guy AG have it in him to lose the deadweight or are we looking at 5 years down the line when these guys graduate
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  #41  
Old 01-01-2018, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Does nobody on this site know how to spell? or have spell check on their computer?

It's a cupboard folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a Cubard or a Cuboard. SMH

Well unless your in the back hills of Kentucky, I always thought the correct spelling was CABINET!
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  #42  
Old 01-01-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
This is an interesting thread. The shots that have been taken at AG are absolutely unfair (IMHO).

The cuboard was really, really, really bare... Shame on you Archie

I went back and tried to piece together the team that Brian left vs. Archie -

Brian left the following team:

- Kevin Dillard (Jr)
- Josh Benson (Sr)
- Chris Johnson (Sr)
- Devon Oliver (So)
- Josh Parker (Sr)
- Paul Williams (Sr)
- Luke Fabrizius (Sr)
- Matt Kavanaugh (Jr)
- Ralph Hill (So)
- Juwan Staten (So)...thank the Lord that he transferred

I give this team a B+ or A- (even without Staten)

Archie Recruited:

- Vee Sanford (Great)
- Devon Scott (You decide)
- Jalen Robinson (You decide)
- Jevon Thomas ... he never suited up
- Matt Derenbecker (Flop)
- Alex Garilovic (Should not have been a flop ... but was)

I give these recruits a C+

Here is the team that Archie left Anthony (which many think should be a contender)

- Josh Cunningham (Great)
- Darrel Davis (Great this year...under Anthony)
- Trey Landers (Constantly improving player...under Anthony)
- Matej Svoboda (Disappointing so far)
- Kostas Antetokounmpo (TBD...very raw but a great recruit...what was he doing his Red Shirt year?)
- Jordan Pierce (TBD...remember Kavanaugh)
- John Crosby (absolutely pathetic under Archibald...improved and very serviceable under Anthony)
- Xeyrius Williams (I think that Anthony screwed this guy up...forget about the injury excuse)
- Ryan Mikesell (Serviceable...but broken)

I give this team a C- ... This is a below 50% team ... even if we enlist the help of the "Wizard of Westwood" this team will have a losing season. I blame this on Archie not Anthony. Give Anthony a break for at least the next couple of years...the cupboard was really, really broken.
How did Pierre become a Flyer?
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  #43  
Old 01-01-2018, 08:45 PM
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I know that nobody wants to hear this again, but it is not out of the question that Cunningham decides to take advantage of the graduate transfer rule next year.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Well unless your in the back hills of Kentucky, I always thought the correct spelling was CABINET!
You're
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I know that nobody wants to hear this again, but it is not out of the question that Cunningham decides to take advantage of the graduate transfer rule next year.
Good point. I'd say it's 51% he stays, 49% he goes but it's way to early. That would be his 3rd team and 4th coach in 5 years -- does he really want to go through that again? Unless he were to go to IU, then it's back to 3 coaches
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Does nobody on this site know how to spell? or have spell check on their computer?

It's a cupboard folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a Cubard or a Cuboard. SMH
sorry c-time, I had a stroke and my hands are not what they used to be
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:25 AM
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Perhaps you are unfamiliar with a happy face?
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
You're
If you're from Pittsburgh, it would be yous.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I know that nobody wants to hear this again, but it is not out of the question that Cunningham decides to take advantage of the graduate transfer rule next year.
TRUE. But he also will be our Stud... AGAIN.

and possible setting some records if he keeps up with:

shooting %
game and total rebounds

Guy is a stud under the Basket.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
This is an interesting thread. The shots that have been taken at AG are absolutely unfair (IMHO).

The cuboard was really, really, really bare... Shame on you Archie

I went back and tried to piece together the team that Brian left vs. Archie -

Brian left the following team:

- Kevin Dillard (Jr)
- Josh Benson (Sr)
- Chris Johnson (Sr)
- Devon Oliver (So)
- Josh Parker (Sr)
- Paul Williams (Sr)
- Luke Fabrizius (Sr)
- Matt Kavanaugh (Jr)
- Ralph Hill (So)
- Juwan Staten (So)...thank the Lord that he transferred

I give this team a B+ or A- (even without Staten)

Here is the team that Archie left Anthony (which many think should be a contender)

- Josh Cunningham (Great)
- Darrel Davis (Great this year...under Anthony)
- Trey Landers (Constantly improving player...under Anthony)
- Matej Svoboda (Disappointing so far)
- Kostas Antetokounmpo (TBD...very raw but a great recruit...what was he doing his Red Shirt year?)
- Jordan Pierce (TBD...remember Kavanaugh)
- John Crosby (absolutely pathetic under Archibald...improved and very serviceable under Anthony)
- Xeyrius Williams (I think that Anthony screwed this guy up...forget about the injury excuse)
- Ryan Mikesell (Serviceable...but broken)
In my opinion, the cupboard was equally thin when Archie took over. Staten was gone already. Behind a few seniors most of whom were serviceable, but only one of which was really good (Chris Johnson) he had a really good junior in Dillard. Then he had a serviceable on the court but issues off it Kavanaugh and Devin Oliver, who was still really raw as a sophomore.

Now, the team that AG got was just one year further in the cycle, having just graduated a bunch of studs, with a lot more underclassmen on the roster. But he's still got one good senior in Baby D (who surprisingly found his game) and behind him one really good junior in Cunningham. Then you've got Landers, Kostas, XW, a rehabbing Mikesell and Jordan Davis (who you didn't mention) who I think can be really good. He's got some pieces. Team is younger. But I think there's actually more useful pieces for years to come in the cupboard.

So while I do think this Dayton team should be better than it is currently, I don't think it's partially a case of what is in the cupboard, not being ripe enough to eat right now.
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  #51  
Old 01-02-2018, 01:34 PM
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Dillard was a very good ball handler and a decent shooter. That covered a lot of ills Archie's teams had his first 2 years.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
sorry c-time, I had a stroke and my hands are not what they used to be
Sorry to hear that. I apologize for calling you out, but I'm a little OCD about some things.

As for the other person who can't spell I'm still angry at them.
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  #53  
Old 01-02-2018, 07:42 PM
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Our problems are several but it starts with having the worst pair of pg's in the league. Not getting a desperately needed grad transfer would seem to fall to Grant. He had to know Crosby was terrible (by the way where are all the apologies from his supporters from last year who thought he was the real deal?) and counting on an undersized and underskilled frosh refugee from UT Chattanooga wasn't the answer.

So the real question is what do we do now?? I'd suggest that rather than wallow in the definition of insanity, we try something else, like play DD and Jordan at guards and give up on our failed pg's other than as subs. What have we to lose? As we are... we're terrible.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:06 PM
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My fear: AG is not successful and UD becomes the SIU Salukis circa 2011. Our previous success is wholly attributed to wunderkind Miller (despite the fact that every UD coach in the modern era has taken a team to the NCAA tournament) and our past success is forgotten as fast as second semester senior year exam material. SLU gets the call from the Big East; VCU from the AAC. Duquesne students begin to show pictures of past presidents beginning with Trump at our Pittsburgh meetings.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
My fear: AG is not successful and UD becomes the SIU Salukis circa 2011. Our previous success is wholly attributed to wunderkind Miller (despite the fact that every UD coach in the modern era has taken a team to the NCAA tournament) and our past success is forgotten as fast as second semester senior year exam material. SLU gets the call from the Big East; VCU from the AAC. Duquesne students begin to show pictures of past presidents beginning with Trump at our Pittsburgh meetings.
You did everything except bring back JOB.

At least our arena is nicer than Duquesne, especially after all those upgrades.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:39 AM
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Nothing? Left him with nothing? Keep believing that and denying the fact that we have a far inferior coach at the helm as we did before. Josh Cunningham, nothing?? I don't think so. We have seen in a dozen games what Darrell is capable of offensively when he's given the opportunity to be one of our goto players. Nothing? Xeyrius single-handedly won us the game at URI last year against a very good team. He's struggled this year with an injury, but I wouldn't call him nothing. Kostas has shown flashes of brilliance, but needs experience to know how to keep himself out of foul trouble. He will be very good -- he's not "nothing".

We have far better players carrying over this year than we did in 2005 when OP left. I knew we would struggle this year, but don't kid yourself to think we should just lay down and wait for next season. The coaching (does AG know we get like 4 timeouts a game?) at times has been shaky. We are better than a .500 team....especially in this five-n-dime conference.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:34 AM
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If Archie really did leave the cupboard bare as some suggest or needs "his guys" that leaves it incumbent on AG to restock the roster. 0 or 1 open scholarship right now depending on Sam Miller.

Is AG who has the reputation as a nice, high character guy going to open up scholarships to get his guys in here? If not it's looking like a 3-5 year rebuild till his guys are in here
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
We have far better players carrying over this year than we did in 2005 when OP left.
OP left in 2003. We had 3 starting seniors returning from a tournament team, and we had Mark Jones, Monty Scott, Warren Williams, and Marques Bennett.

But sure, we are delusional.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
I'm getting kind of tired of the 'we have no talent or experience' excuse. There are excuses and there are reasons; stop making excuses. It's not like 5 guys were kicked off the team, or our best player broke their leg. This is the roster AG has had for 8+months and we can't beat the preseason #14 team in A10. We are 6-7 and should be 4-9. It's time we stop making excuses as to why we have sucked. The reasons are because our guys haven't developed from game 1 to now, and we aren't drawing up sets on offense that get the most out of our guys.

First, on experience. JCunn is a junior who played 30MPG his frosh year and 15MPG last year. He has been in college 3.5 years. He averages dam near a double double. He is experienced. DD is a senior averaging 17 a game. Crosby and X are upperclassmen. Yes we have alot freshman but Svoboda is like 37 and KA has been in the program for a year already. I can see how 'experience' would help in the NCAA tournament, but stop making excuses as to lack of experience is why we can't beat Duquesne in a high school gym. If anything the HS gym should be more comfortable for our guys without experience. In 2015 we had half a roster without 'experience'. 6 scholarship players (3 soph, 1 senior, 1 jr and 1 frosh) and a walk on. Did AM make the excuse that we should accept mediocrity because over half of our roster was 'lacking experience'? Heck no! He and the team adapted. Yes that roster had more talent, but this roster isn't so bad to be under .500.

Second thing on talent...
Yes this roster has holes. But not so many holes to be 6-7. JCunn is good. DD is good. JD is a good shooter. Crutcher has played well and has a better A:T ratio than SS his fresh year along with more PPG, APG, RBG, SPG and FT%. XW proved last year he can be a good player. KA has the potential to finish this season with one of the highest block totals in school history.
What we don't have is versatility -- guys that can 'do it all'. Largely, our players are much more 1-dimensional than years past so it's time we work to our strengths and set a rotation with guys that compliment each other. Don't leave KA and XW on the bench for an entire half. If we keep the same guys out there for 8 minutes at a time and we aren't exposing mismatches, we become the mismatch. We have talent, we just aren't utilizing it to it's potential.

We aren't developing our players and evolving. Like I said in my earlier post, who has developed the most from game 1 to game 13? I honestly can't answer that. If we aren't developing our players and evolving our game plans to our strengths, where does that blame fall? It's not experience and talent. It's coaching.
Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Our problems are several but it starts with having the worst pair of pg's in the league. Not getting a desperately needed grad transfer would seem to fall to Grant. He had to know Crosby was terrible (by the way where are all the apologies from his supporters from last year who thought he was the real deal?) and counting on an undersized and underskilled frosh refugee from UT Chattanooga wasn't the answer.

So the real question is what do we do now?? I'd suggest that rather than wallow in the definition of insanity, we try something else, like play DD and Jordan at guards and give up on our failed pg's other than as subs. What have we to lose? As we are... we're terrible.
I think a few of you are really good at over-diagnosing the problem.

Our PGs are below average. But not enough to account for 6-7.

DD is not a good leader. But not enough to account for 6-7.

XW being hurt, and playing poorly when he was on the court, has been the greatest disappointment of the year. But not enough to account for 6-7.

Our coach has struggled to find a rhythm with these guys. But not enough to account for 6-7.

We are inexperienced, that's a fact. But not enough to account for 6-7.

Too many of you want to point to your pet-shortcoming and say "see, I told you so, THIS is why we're no good." But the thing is, this is a dynamic system. Each of these shortcomings has merit, and can also be overcome in a dynamic system. Or be our fatal flaw.

If AG had the team figured out it's probably good for another 2-3 wins. If XW was playing at the level we expected this year (starter, 10/5, 38% from 3) it's probably good for 1-2 wins. If Crosby or Crutcher was playing with senior confidence it's good for at least 2-3 wins, probably more. And if every one of those happened at the same time it's probably good for 5-6 wins.

But it's not happening. And it might not happen all year. But if the dam breaks and AG figures this team out, and that leads to our PGs playing better, while XW comes back healthy, the whole system starts to look like a real team all the sudden.

That's what Archie was good at: finding a way to maximize the output of the system despite the shortcomings of the individual parts.
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  #60  
Old 01-04-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
OP left in 2003. We had 3 starting seniors returning from a tournament team, and we had Mark Jones, Monty Scott, Warren Williams, and Marques Bennett.

But sure, we are delusional.
My mistake - I was thinking of the class after Marshall, KW and Finn. That team in 2004-05 aside from Monty Scott was way thin. I recall people dinging OP for how we were "bare" after the legendary class of 2004 left. We have MUCH more carry over talent this year than the 2004-05 team.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:42 AM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Looks like our nothing players of Darrell, Josh and Trey played pretty well last night.
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Flyer 86 (01-15-2018)
  #62  
Old 01-04-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I think a few of you are really good at over-diagnosing the problem.

Our PGs are below average. But not enough to account for 6-7.

DD is not a good leader. But not enough to account for 6-7.

XW being hurt, and playing poorly when he was on the court, has been the greatest disappointment of the year. But not enough to account for 6-7.

Our coach has struggled to find a rhythm with these guys. But not enough to account for 6-7.

We are inexperienced, that's a fact. But not enough to account for 6-7.

Too many of you want to point to your pet-shortcoming and say "see, I told you so, THIS is why we're no good." But the thing is, this is a dynamic system. Each of these shortcomings has merit, and can also be overcome in a dynamic system. Or be our fatal flaw.

If AG had the team figured out it's probably good for another 2-3 wins. If XW was playing at the level we expected this year (starter, 10/5, 38% from 3) it's probably good for 1-2 wins. If Crosby or Crutcher was playing with senior confidence it's good for at least 2-3 wins, probably more. And if every one of those happened at the same time it's probably good for 5-6 wins.

But it's not happening. And it might not happen all year. But if the dam breaks and AG figures this team out, and that leads to our PGs playing better, while XW comes back healthy, the whole system starts to look like a real team all the sudden.

That's what Archie was good at: finding a way to maximize the output of the system despite the shortcomings of the individual parts.
See what I mean, naysayers? There is no doubt we are not a great team. But we're not nearly as far from being a good team (NIT qualifier) as you'd like to convince yourself.

When all the 50/50 items go against us we can't beat terrible teams at home.

But when one goes right, it makes it easier for the next one to go right, and suddenly the next one isn't as important to win against a good (not great) opponent.
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  #63  
Old 01-15-2018, 08:26 AM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Our nothing players looked pretty good on Friday night
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  #64  
Old 01-15-2018, 08:56 AM
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Wooohooo - We are almost an NIT tem.

[QUOTE=Gazoo;528122]See what I mean, naysayers? There is no doubt we are not a great team. But we're not nearly as far from being a good team (NIT qualifier) as you'd like to convince yourself.

Great news here. Not quite NIT material close. 13k fans, great facilities, 4 consecutive NCAA's, etc. and we should be pleased to be almost NOT IN TOURNAMENT worthy. Awesome!!!.
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  #65  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:36 AM
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Not quite an NIT tourney resume after 4 consecutive NCAA tournaments with some success there seems more than reasonable to me. Let's say Dayton can replicate this pattern and make the tourney 8 out of 10 years with 2 rebuild/reload duds mixed in, who doesn't take that?
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Flyer 86 (01-15-2018)
  #66  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Not quite an NIT tourney resume after 4 consecutive NCAA tournaments with some success there seems more than reasonable to me. Let's say Dayton can replicate this pattern and make the tourney 8 out of 10 years with 2 rebuild/reload duds mixed in, who doesn't take that?
So long as there are some NCAA wins in there, yes. It's not enough to make the tournament and lose first round every time.
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  #67  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBaby View Post
  • Flyers lose all senior leadership and skilled players to graduation
  • Cunningham isn't nearly as good as I, or we thought he was. Nice player but not even a top A-10 player
  • Baby D can't carry the load cause it's not his thing and he is prone to bonehead lapses at inopportune times
  • Flyers best PGs are freshmen who are talented but raw
  • Our other option at PG? - (See comments about DD).
  • They've got no focus when playing with a lead and they aren't a good enough "team" to play from behind.
Not sure I'm ready make any judgments or reach any conclusions about AG just yet....And yes, there is something to be said about hiring an Alum - with bonefides - at a program like UD, to shake off the downside of being "coaches stepping stone" program...IMO

"It's been real nice talkin' to you. Good night."

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Wanted to point this out. Not sure where you got Josh C isn't a top Ten A10 player. Had some bad turnovers early and disappeared 2 or 3 times.

Has been mostly STUDLY. Ranked in top 15 in Country in Shooting percentage.
Has some of the best hands around the basket i've seen for a College "Big", and he ain't that big either. Just rock solid around the hole!
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  #68  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:50 PM
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EDITED. Sorry Top !0 in Nation in scoring %

Ranked 9 at ...... get this 68.5%!


15 points a game. 9.1 boards.

Rock like!
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  #69  
Old 01-15-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Great news here. Not quite NIT material close. 13k fans, great facilities, 4 consecutive NCAA's, etc. and we should be pleased to be almost NOT IN TOURNAMENT worthy. Awesome!!!.
Teams who did NOT make the tournament in the last 3 years (meaning they DO NOT make the tournament every single year, like you apparently think Dayton should):

1. Syracuse.
2. Indiana.
3. South Carolina.
4. Ohio State.
5. Florida State.
6. Florida.
7. St. Mary's.
8. UConn (who is ~9-9 this year).

Mmmmkay. There are multiple Final 4 participants from the recent past on that list. Teams that expect to be good every year. And a couple of mid-major conferences.

Sorry chief, you're whining like a political lackey whose party lost the election. Accept reality.

Now if we're in the NIT 3 years in a row without a really good reason, I will then be upset.
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