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08-11-2015, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09
The solution is exactly what UD is doing. Play well in your early season tourney, dominate at home, and do well in conference. That is the exact formula for a successful UD program right now.
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I agree if a team can do the above, they will be in good shape come Selection Sunday but that is not what they did in the 2013/14 Elite 8 year. They did well at home and in Maui but I would not say they did well in conference. Winning 2 of 3 on the road preconference was pretty important too.
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08-11-2015, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Yeah, those are good games. Well, if we beat Iowa. A loss to Iowa and we're probably looking at few remaining Top 25 or Top 50 win opportunities, though. Might need need to schedule some "Bracket Busters" moving forward LOL. Whatever gimmick they want to call it is fine with me.
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True, but so was Gonzaga in the PreSeason NIT tip off (the loser had no other good games resulting from that as a one and out event). The A10 prohibits its members from playing in the (I believe now defunct) Bracket Buster event. If you are dealing in fact you can't say get a Bracket Buster game if you are in the A10.
St Joes and Gonzaga first played following the Jameer Nelson undefeated season. They have played a few times since.
You can't pick off one or two games on everyone's schedule and see gee look at that. Dayton has those same couple games too. Do you want to ignore that Wichita State's home schedule has included Emporia, William and Mary, Tennessee State, Oral Roberts and DePaul all in the same year (the year they got a 1 seed) or that last year Gonzaga played Sacramento State, St Thomas Aquinas, Cal Poly, Southeastern Louisiana and Texas Southern at home. In many years the exempt tourney's have been the lifeblood of Gonzaga's strength of schedule. The last few years they've been able to get more PAC12 teams on the schedule.
Last edited by UDDoug; 08-11-2015 at 03:34 PM..
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08-11-2015, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Might need need to schedule some "Bracket Busters" moving forward LOL. Whatever gimmick they want to call it is fine with me.
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The "Bracket Busters" event was cancelled after the 2012-2013 season by ESPN. The A10 never participated.
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08-11-2015, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
It always amazes me -- in all walks of life not just basketball -- that the people who insist they could do the job better sit safely behind a wall called "there is absolutely no chance I will ever have that job".
Some people half-arse their jobs and are not very good at them. Some players at UD fit that category. So yes, it's possible. But I try not to criticize too harshly when I've never done the job myself.
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The UD Athletic Department has an extremely difficult job scheduling non-conference foes beyond the yearly exempt tournament. Most of udpride acknowledges the tough task. The Athletic Department does a great job executing the current philosophy of scheduling home and home with mid-tier P5 schools, getting into a top exempt tournament, and focusing on non-con RPI. I believe they estimated our 2014-2015 OOC RPI when they scheduled it and before we played the games between 30-35 and we landed at 32 -- this is pretty amazing accuracy.
I simply have two different views on the scheduling philosophy, not the execution of the current philosophy:
(1) I think the Athletic Department undervalues top 50 games and overvalues RPI when creating the schedule. 2014-2015 is a great example where the Athletic Department nailed the non-con RPI, but we did not rack up any top 50 wins and only had one chance @Arkansas. Perhaps they forecasted Ole Miss to would be a top 50?
(2) Acknowledging that this point is very debateable, I think the Athletic Department may overestimate our peer group and should be more willing to take more 2 for 1s or buy games on the road versus top tier P5 teams or top tier mid-majors. We were unable to work out some home and home (or neutral and neutral) P5 team games this year and I think we should have taken an away game only or 2 away games in return for 1 home game. I understand the possible unintended consequence that no P5 team would be willing to then schedule a home and home with us in the future if they thought we were willing to go 2 for 1 or 1 for 0. I would take the risk.
Again, not an easy task to execute any scheduling philosophy. Despite the difficulties, the UD Athletic Department has executed the current scheduling philosophy extremely well.
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08-11-2015, 04:01 PM
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Also would love to see a league challenge series between the A-10 and the AAC or Missouri Valley or West Coast. The A-10 was #7 RPI and AAC #8 -- A-10 had 3 top 50 and 7 top 100 whereas the AAC had 4 top 50 and 6 top 100 teams. Seems like a perfect match with top 11 A-10 teams playing the entire 11 team AAC.
The AAC seems to want a challenge series as well. http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-...ry.html#page=1
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08-11-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
It's a fact that we were in the NCAA tournament last year based on our excellent scheduling philosophy.
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Ok, we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I admit I'm surprised that so many think our scheduling philosophy last season was "excellent." I would agree with "just barely adequate enough," perhaps, but "excellent"?
Originally Posted by Gazoo
"If" they had?? You mean, a hypothetical, kind of like "if we had played tougher teams right after Dee and Dumb were dismissed"?
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The fact is that the Committee Chairman expressly stated that they were waiting on the conclusion of the UConn-SMU game to fill the last at-large, and that Dayton would have been bumped from the field had UConn won. That's not speculation. Rather, it's the Committee Chairman's own words.
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08-11-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
The A10 prohibits its members from playing in the (I believe now defunct) Bracket Buster event. If you are dealing in fact you can't say get a Bracket Buster game if you are in the A10.
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Originally Posted by The Echo bcross
The "Bracket Busters" event was cancelled after the 2012-2013 season by ESPN. The A10 never participated.
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Whatever gimmick you want to call it. Teams are still playing "bracket buster" type games (and always have) whether it's an official ESPN sponsored gimmick game or not. If the A 10 forbids these type games, perhaps the conference needs to reconsider this. Or, Dayton should just get into the Big East. That would solve a lot of issues. Ha
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08-11-2015, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Teams are still playing "bracket buster" type games (and always have) whether it's an official ESPN sponsored gimmick game or not. If the A 10 forbids these type games, perhaps the conference needs to reconsider this. Or, Dayton should just get into the Big East. That would solve a lot of issues. Ha
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No, they aren't. The "Bracket Busters" was an event where ESPN matched up mid-majors for a game in late February. The matchups were not determined until late Jan-early Feb. Nothing similar is going on now. The A10 did not participate, and neither did the MWC, CUSA, WCC.
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08-11-2015, 08:25 PM
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There is a big difference between saying the schedule isn't strong enough and saying it is the fault of the scheduling philosophy. UD isn't avoiding top 50 games nor are they avoiding quality road games. One way games, road/neutral series, get turned down regularly. Including a few this year.
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08-11-2015, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
There is a big difference between saying the schedule isn't strong enough and saying it is the fault of the scheduling philosophy. UD isn't avoiding top 50 games nor are they avoiding quality road games. One way games, road/neutral series, get turned down regularly. Including a few this year.
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Might be time to start thinking about these if we can get good TV coverage. We had a series like that with Louisville that turned out pretty well (I realize Louisville won't play us again)
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08-11-2015, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
There is a big difference between saying the schedule isn't strong enough and saying it is the fault of the scheduling philosophy. UD isn't avoiding top 50 games nor are they avoiding quality road games.
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Nobody is assigning fault or blame. Either the schedule is strong enough, or it isn't. At the end of the day, that's what matters.
"We would never play a road-only game with [fill in the blank] for a multitude of reasons. Doing so would be an admission that [fill in the blank] is not in our peer group."
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08-11-2015, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Might be time to start thinking about these if we can get good TV coverage. We had a series like that with Louisville that turned out pretty well (I realize Louisville won't play us again)
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Not sure what you mean by this. I believe what he was saying is that these types of games get turned down by the other teams, not by us. Chris has named a few of these the last couple years.
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08-11-2015, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Nobody is assigning fault or blame.
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It certainly sounds like you are assigning blame.
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08-12-2015, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Also would love to see a league challenge series between the A-10 and the AAC or Missouri Valley or West Coast. The A-10 was #7 RPI and AAC #8 -- A-10 had 3 top 50 and 7 top 100 whereas the AAC had 4 top 50 and 6 top 100 teams. Seems like a perfect match with top 11 A-10 teams playing the entire 11 team AAC.
The AAC seems to want a challenge series as well. http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-...ry.html#page=1
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I would be all for this assuming the current membership for the AAC stays the same. However, I don't know how long that is going to be the case. Schools like UC, UCF, UM, Houston, and UCONN leaving real soon is likely.
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08-12-2015, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
"We would never play a road-only game with [fill in the blank] for a multitude of reasons. Doing so would be an admission that [fill in the blank] is not in our peer group."
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That doesn't happen. The AD looks for one way road games and neutral site games against top level opponents every single year. No takers on the other side.
The look for series like Louisville - one on the road and one at a neutral site. No takers on the other side.
They look for neutral/neutral series. All turned down.
In the past three or so years, there have more than a handful of those type series in which a deal was close and the other side ultimately opted out. Including a couple for this year. One home game was supposed to be a road game, there was no interest until TV stepped in. And TV said they weren't interested unless the game was at UD Arena. You don't have to be genius to figure out which game that is.
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08-12-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
One home game was supposed to be a road game, there was no interest until TV stepped in. And TV said they weren't interested unless the game was at UD Arena. You don't have to be genius to figure out which game that is.
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And that will result in a road game next year.
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08-12-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
That doesn't happen. The AD looks for one way road games and neutral site games against top level opponents every single year. No takers on the other side.
The look for series like Louisville - one on the road and one at a neutral site. No takers on the other side.
They look for neutral/neutral series. All turned down.
In the past three or so years, there have more than a handful of those type series in which a deal was close and the other side ultimately opted out. Including a couple for this year. One home game was supposed to be a road game, there was no interest until TV stepped in. And TV said they weren't interested unless the game was at UD Arena. You don't have to be genius to figure out which game that is.
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I do believe they did as described above and probably contemplated all the other suggestions described in this thread and then some. They are probably not happy with only one true road game and will not make this the model for the future but looked at the preseason tourney, the quality of the A10 teams and the quality of our own team, and said what we should be okay with what we have scheduled for this year.
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08-12-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
I would agree with "just barely adequate enough," perhaps, but "excellent"?
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It was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
The fact is that the Committee Chairman expressly stated that they were waiting on the conclusion of the UConn-SMU game to fill the last at-large, and that Dayton would have been bumped from the field had UConn won. That's not speculation. Rather, it's the Committee Chairman's own words.
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No one asked the Committee Chairman, to my knowledge, what would have happened if we had played, and lost to, tougher competition in the days after the dismissals. If someone asked him and he had said "they would have been firmly out of the NCAA" then it becomes fact, but because no one asked him about this hypothetical loss (that didn't happen) it's all just "hypothetical." When someone asked him about another hypothetical situation that's dead-solid-fact.
Okey-dokey.
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08-12-2015, 11:48 AM
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Wichita State finished 28-4 and got a 7 seed. Their four losses were Illinois State in the MVC championship, Utah, GW and Northern Iowa.
What if they had gone 25-8 like UD, with losses to teams similar to Duquesne and LaSalle late in the year, UMass earlier in the year and on off the bubble team like UConn? My guess is they are in about the same situation UD was - barely in, or even out.
Temple played a higher rated schedule, lost 2 more games, and was completely left out of the field.
Improving the schedule strength won't do much to secure a bid if you lose any more games as a result. Temple and Wichita State kind of illustrate both sides of the coin. UD's biggest issue was some of the game they lost and how many they lost. If they substituted two buy games for two tougher games, do they have to go 1-1 or 2-0 to stay the last team in? Temple seems to indicate 0-2 is left out.
To be solidly in and a top half or so seed, apparently you can't lose more than a handful of games if you are outside the P5. Sooner or later Dayton is going to fall on the wrong side of the bubble, and the talk is going to be schedule. But that's also a year they probably lose 8 or 9 too. The number of losses will be the real killer, not the schedule.
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08-12-2015, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Wichita State finished 28-4 and got a 7 seed. Their four losses were Illinois State in the MVC championship, Utah, GW and Northern Iowa.
What if they had gone 25-8 like UD, with losses to teams similar to Duquesne and LaSalle late in the year, UMass earlier in the year and on off the bubble team like UConn? My guess is they are in about the same situation UD was - barely in, or even out.
Temple played a higher rated schedule, lost 2 more games, and was completely left out of the field.
Improving the schedule strength won't do much to secure a bid if you lose any more games as a result. Temple and Wichita State kind of illustrate both sides of the coin. UD's biggest issue was some of the game they lost and how many they lost. If they substituted two buy games for two tougher games, do they have to go 1-1 or 2-0 to stay the last team in? Temple seems to indicate 0-2 is left out.
To be solidly in and a top half or so seed, apparently you can't lose more than a handful of games if you are outside the P5. Sooner or later Dayton is going to fall on the wrong side of the bubble, and the talk is going to be schedule. But that's also a year they probably lose 8 or 9 too. The number of losses will be the real killer, not the schedule.
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Very good points here. As many have been saying the biggest issue is UD has too many of those potentially losses in conference to be dealing with any more even marginal games in the OOC. I agree too...in order to actually break into that 6 or better seed range UD needs to win the conference and the conference tourney going away.
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08-12-2015, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Wichita State finished 28-4 and got a 7 seed. Their four losses were Illinois State in the MVC championship, Utah, GW and Northern Iowa.
What if they had gone 25-8 like UD, with losses to teams similar to Duquesne and LaSalle late in the year, UMass earlier in the year and on off the bubble team like UConn? My guess is they are in about the same situation UD was - barely in, or even out.
Temple played a higher rated schedule, lost 2 more games, and was completely left out of the field.
Improving the schedule strength won't do much to secure a bid if you lose any more games as a result. Temple and Wichita State kind of illustrate both sides of the coin. UD's biggest issue was some of the game they lost and how many they lost. If they substituted two buy games for two tougher games, do they have to go 1-1 or 2-0 to stay the last team in? Temple seems to indicate 0-2 is left out.
To be solidly in and a top half or so seed, apparently you can't lose more than a handful of games if you are outside the P5. Sooner or later Dayton is going to fall on the wrong side of the bubble, and the talk is going to be schedule. But that's also a year they probably lose 8 or 9 too. The number of losses will be the real killer, not the schedule.
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That is if the Selection Committee stays on the same track. Which they won't. Don't forget the infamous "sniff test" criteria (the chairman even had a smirk when he said it). Every year basketball seems to be targeting a moving P5 train.
Which is better, an excellent W/L record, or a strong schedule? Answer = both, if you want to stay out of the hands of the SC devil. Hard to do though. Reality is again finishing high in the A10 regular season, yielding a good seed. Then winning the A10 Tournament and the auto bid. We can't make a consistent push the other way. Too many ways to stumble.
Winning the A10 Tournament and it's better NCAA seed means we likely have the makeup of an E8 team or better.
2 Cents
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08-12-2015, 03:27 PM
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Remember the Missouri Valley was as bad it has been in probably 20 years. It finished behind the MAC and outside the top 10
Northern Iowa and SMU played challenging OOC schedules and were rewarded for it. Larry Brown stepped it up after getting let out and got rewarded
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08-12-2015, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Northern Iowa and SMU played challenging OOC schedules and were rewarded for it.
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You can also argue that for the most part they consistently won the games they were supposssed to win
SMU: 6 losses, 1 to a team that did not make the NCAA tournament
N.Iowa: 3 losses, 1 to a team that did not make the NCAA tournament
UD: 8 losses, 5 to teams that did not make the NCAA tournament
Win one or two more against non tournament teams and we're in and not playing at UD arena
Do what NIU and SMU did and finish with 4 losses and only 1 to a non tournament team and we would have been rewarded as well
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08-12-2015, 06:50 PM
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Wichita State and Northern Iowa played in the same league. Northern Iowa went 16-2 and Wichita St went 17-1.
Northern Iowa got the higher seed
I agree that you need to take care of business against the non-tourney teams but the committee rewards team for getting good wins on the road and beating quality opponents
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08-12-2015, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Wichita State and Northern Iowa played in the same league. Northern Iowa went 16-2 and Wichita St went 17-1.
Northern Iowa got the higher seed
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Because Northern Iowa won the MVC Tourney.
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08-12-2015, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Because Northern Iowa won the MVC Tourney.
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Winning the conference tourney of the 12th ranked conference moves them up two slots on the seed line?
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08-12-2015, 07:12 PM
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I had read somewhere that the A10 was told the winner of the tournament would be a 7 seed. Part of the reason everyone was so stunned to be the last team in.
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08-12-2015, 07:22 PM
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The sky is not falling. The sky is not falling. The sky is not falling.
UD was bubblelicious in 2015 despite a better record than 2014. Why? Lower non-con RPI, lower average opponent RPI. So was it the scheduling philosophy that changed?
2013-14 OOC Schedule: 6 buy games, 5 home/home series, 3 neutral, 1 home exempt game
2014-15 OOC Schedule: 5 buy games, 4 home/home series, 3 neutral
Not really. Two noncon games disappeared because of the move to an 18 game conference schedule. UD went from 6 to 5 buy games and from 5 to 4 home/homes.
2015-16 OOC Schedule: 5 buy games, 4 home/home series, 3 neutral
The results:
2013-14 non-con RPI: 21
Record on Selection Sunday: 23-10 (12-3 Noncon, 10-6 A10, 1-1 A10 Tourn)
Seed: 11
2014-15 non-con RPI: 42
Record on Selection Sunday: 25-8 (10-2 Noncon, 13-5 A10, 2-1 A10 Tourn)
Seed: 11, barely
So?
I contend that it's not the scheduling that's the problem in 2014-15, but it's the PERFORMANCE of the opponents that were scheduled. UD's 2014-15 opponents underperformed expectations, period. That includes the A10.
2013-14 A10 composite noncon win %: .702
2014-15 A10 composite noncon win %: .607
UD needs to continue to work to improve the schedule, no doubt. But the sky is not falling. One off year in the SOS is not a sign of the apocalypse.
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08-12-2015, 07:43 PM
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In my opinion getting top 50 wins and good road wins be in OOC or the A10 is the most important part
2013-14 A10 I think is probably on the high end of performance as to what we can expect out of the league.
The difference between Northern Iowa and Wichita St is the OOC schedule. SOS wise favored the Shockers but Northern Iowa had more top 50 wins and better road wins. The committee has pretty consistently rewarded teams that get those
Dayton has a chance to do something special the next two seasons. Stringing 4 tourney appearances together and potentially winning games is a paradigm changer. The best way to ensure post season success is to get as a high a seed as possible.
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08-12-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi
UD: 8 losses, 5 to teams that did not make the NCAA tournament
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We are going to have to win the few top 50 chances we have if we expect to get away with that again.
And this season I think we will not have more than a couple of those bad losses.
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08-13-2015, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg
Two noncon games disappeared because of the move to an 18 game conference schedule. UD went from 6 to 5 buy games and from 5 to 4 home/homes.
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Interesting point. Overall the A10 was down, but the Dayton pod was a night and day contrast.
In 2013-14 they played RIC (69), SJU (30), SLU (27) and URI (145). Last season they played DUQ (223), FOR (240) LAS (105), SBU (127) & SLU (273). - (Final RPI)
The extra conference games were more than likely a downgrade from the non-conference games they had to give up.
This year the pod should be somewhere in between those two extremes. Dayton slated to play DUQ (200), LAS (125), SBU (150), SLU (250), RI (50). - (My RPI estimates)
In 2013-14 Conf Tourney UD played FOR (212) and SJU (30), while in the 2014-15 Conf Tourney UD played SBU (127), URI (61) and VCU (21).
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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08-13-2015, 03:26 PM
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I kind of hoped we might snag a home and home with SFA when I saw the tweet by Jon Rothstein mentioned in this article on SFA having a hard time scheduling. Sounds like travel is a big problem for teams playing there:
"Nacogdoches lacks a nearby commercial airport, making travel to an already difficult home-court environment even more arduous for opponents."
This bit also sounded somewhat familiar: "...a solid November/December schedule could be the difference between an at-large berth in the Big Dance, or a sisterly kiss in the NIT. Leaving an entire season of success to the unpredictability of a conference tournament is not aligned with the ambitions of this program."
Of course UD shouldn't be in or out based solely on the results of the conference tournament as we are in a multi-bid league. But the comparison is interesting. Certainly I would not put SFA as our "peer", but they have gone farther in the NCAA tournament in the last couple years than VCU, and as far as any A10 team not named Dayton.
To that point, I still think improving the conference will help us more than improving our non-conference schedule. A lot of that is of course beyond our control, but I expect the league to be better next year. Outside of VCU, about the only "signature" win by an A10 team in the nonconference last year was GW over Wichita. That was a big win to be sure but GW didn't capitalize on it, finishing in the middle of the pack. At any rate, we need the A10 to take advantage of more nonconference opportunities and get some Power 5 wins, or at a minimum have a better winning percentage. UMass going on the road a bunch and losing all those games doesn't help the league's RPI.
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08-18-2015, 10:27 AM
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Official Tip-Off Marathon Schedule
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-re...-off-marathon/
First game on ESPN, nice!
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08-18-2015, 11:31 AM
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@AaronSuttles: The No. 11 basketball player in country, Terrence Ferguson, has committed to Avery Johnson and Alabama.
Doesn't matter for this year but should help next year down in Bama
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08-18-2015, 01:10 PM
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Virginia is playing at George Washington!!
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08-26-2015, 06:16 PM
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Dayton Basketball @DaytonMBB
Exciting news on our schedule. The Dayton at Vanderbilt game on Wednesday, Dec. 9 will be televised on @ESPNU starting at 9 pm ET. #TrueTeam
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08-26-2015, 06:51 PM
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There will also be a special halftime tribute to Caitlyn Jenner and her "courage". ESPN encourages freedom of speech and freedom to live how you choose. Unless you are a white straight American born male who is employed.
The game with Vandy was always a shoo-in to be televised. Power 5 big boys dont schedule home and homes with non power 5's without a TV guarantee
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08-26-2015, 08:15 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
ESPN encourages freedom of speech and freedom to live how you choose. Unless you are a white straight American born male who is employed.
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With around the clock coverage of Tim Tebow and Tom Brady, ESPN is all about covering the straight, white American born male. But they are no different than any other media outlet. Controversial topics and stories drive viewership. That's just the way it is.
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08-27-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
There will also be a special halftime tribute to Caitlyn Jenner and her "courage".
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Why? Is there some tie-in to Vandy?? Or just coincidence?
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08-27-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Why? Is there some tie-in to Vandy?? Or just coincidence?
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or is a UD fan just obsessed with Caitlyn Jenner?
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08-27-2015, 05:20 PM
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I would like to be able to say, 'Who is this "Caitlyn Jenner"?' you are talking about, but sadly I can't say I haven't heard of her ... err him ... oh well you know what I mean!
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08-28-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
I would like to be able to say, 'Who is this "Caitlyn Jenner"?' you are talking about, but sadly I can't say I haven't heard of her ... err him ... oh well you know what I mean!
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Her. It shouldn't be hard to figure out with a name like Caitlyn.
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08-28-2015, 12:33 PM
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The first few times I heard "Caitlyn Jenner" I assumed it was a daughter of Bruce. Just didn't register that he was going to start being called by a different name.
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08-28-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86
Her. It shouldn't be hard to figure out with a name like Caitlyn.
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Although I could think that way, however have you heard about a school somewhere in these glorious United States that has decided to ban the pronouns he and she (and I assume him and her) since this may be offending to some!
Next year, Jack and Jill will be outlawed (not the person, the names).
Now back to our original programming for this thread .... so how does everyone feel about this years OOC schedule?
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08-30-2015, 11:52 AM
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Saw another interesting article today that parallels UD's situation. Colorado State from the Mountain West, a comparable conference to the A10, has had a tough time getting good teams to come to their place. They were left out last year despite an RPI of 29!
Here is the article about CSU's difficulties. An interesting tidbit is that they think it is better to play a non-division-1 school instead of a team outside the top-250 in the RPI. While I'd agree it's best for UD to avoid those 250+ RPI games, I don't agree that the solution is to play non-division 1 opponents. If you want to look better to the selection committee, playing games that don't count aren't the way to do it. I know technically the committee isn't necessarily supposed to look at those games, but I'd think playing 2 games that don't count screams of weakness and is not worth the slight RPI bump you get by having those games not count.
At any rate, reading about SFA, Colorado St. and their ilk makes me appreciate more and more the good job UD does with our schedule.
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08-30-2015, 02:45 PM
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Has Colorado State's AD tried reading this thread? There are about 7 pages of solutions. Besides if he does not improve their schedule, he may be interested in a sex change.
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08-30-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Has Colorado State's AD tried reading this thread? There are about 7 pages of solutions. Besides if he does not improve their schedule, he may be interested in a sex change.
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Best post ever!
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08-30-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Has Colorado State's AD tried reading this thread? There are about 7 pages of solutions. Besides if he does not improve their schedule, he may be interested in a sex change.
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I have to give you "thanks" even if it was me that brought up Jenner in the first place. I was laughing my ass off reading this. Well done sir. Well done
* apparently i "green pip" you too much. it wont let me green pip your glorious post.
jack72 wins the internet today
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08-30-2015, 05:28 PM
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What I want to know is how long do we have to wait until we can start getting more good home and home series?
Pre-Big East Xavier, pre-Big East Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU and others for several years played tougher OOC schedules than UD.
UD has gone to back to back Elite 8's and round of 32's.
Do we have to wait 1 more year?
2 more years?
3 more years?
4 or 5 more years?
How long do we have to wait before UD upgrades its OOC schedule?
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08-30-2015, 06:01 PM
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Completely Disagree
Dayton's mens schedule has been upgraded. The Coach and AD have done a fine job with the schedule. It is consistent with the Atlantic Ten favorite.
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08-30-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
What I want to know is how long do we have to wait until we can start getting more good home and home series?
Pre-Big East Xavier, pre-Big East Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU and others for several years played tougher OOC schedules than UD.
UD has gone to back to back Elite 8's and round of 32's.
Do we have to wait 1 more year?
2 more years?
3 more years?
4 or 5 more years?
How long do we have to wait before UD upgrades its OOC schedule?
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And here we go again.....
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08-30-2015, 07:58 PM
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Be careful what you wish for.
We have had success in spite of our ooc sos.
It appears that today's strategy is working. I'd love to see UD play top 50 teams but why change things unless things change?
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08-30-2015, 10:23 PM
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I know that this is slightly OT but I did not want to start a new thread. I saw earlier today that UC said they are expecting to release their whole schedule this week for basketball. Does anybody have any idea as to when UD is planning to release theirs? Thanks.
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08-31-2015, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dillomernda
I know that this is slightly OT but I did not want to start a new thread. I saw earlier today that UC said they are expecting to release their whole schedule this week for basketball. Does anybody have any idea as to when UD is planning to release theirs? Thanks.
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At this point UD is waiting on the A10. I doubt they even know their A10 schedule right now.
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08-31-2015, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
Dayton's mens schedule has been upgraded. The Coach and AD have done a fine job with the schedule. It is consistent with the Atlantic Ten favorite.
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Seriously, how has the OOC schedule been upgraded vs. last year?
A fine job??? Seriously???
UD's OOC schedule went backwards this year, and this is after coming off a back-to-back Elite 8 and round of 32.
VCU, last year's A10 favorite, played a much tougher schedule last year.
One true road game. Boy oh boy UD, way to really challenge yourself there, I hope you don't pull a muscle getting off the couch. The selection committee is going to really look favorably on that move.
The buy games may be better this year, hard to get real excited about that though.
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08-31-2015, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Seriously, how has the OOC schedule been upgraded vs. last year?
A fine job??? Seriously???
UD's OOC schedule went backwards this year, and this is after coming off a back-to-back Elite 8 and round of 32.
VCU, last year's A10 favorite, played a much tougher schedule last year.
One true road game. Boy oh boy UD, way to really challenge yourself there, I hope you don't pull a muscle getting off the couch. The selection committee is going to really look favorably on that move.
The buy games may be better this year, hard to get real excited about that though.
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I hate to sound like a Cubs fan, but I really do think it's "next year." We just need to perform well 1 more year in the post season to have the credibility to upgrade.
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08-31-2015, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Seriously, how has the OOC schedule been upgraded vs. last year?
A fine job??? Seriously???
UD's OOC schedule went backwards this year, and this is after coming off a back-to-back Elite 8 and round of 32.
VCU, last year's A10 favorite, played a much tougher schedule last year.
One true road game. Boy oh boy UD, way to really challenge yourself there, I hope you don't pull a muscle getting off the couch. The selection committee is going to really look favorably on that move.
The buy games may be better this year, hard to get real excited about that though.
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You've now made the same post about 18 different ways on this thread. Let's get into some specifics, since all that seems to be happening is whining about generalities, and the loss of a road game.
This year, we start with SE Missouri State vs last year Alabama A&M - both pretty bad teams, let's call it a wash.
The exempt tournament we're in I think looks quite a bit better than last year. Let's say we beat Iowa, and lose to ND just for this exercise - would make it similar to the last two years when we went W/L/W in the tournament. So you take Iowa, ND, and eggsavier vs Texas A&M, UConn, and BC. Iowa this year will be about as good, if not better than A&M last year. ND will be as good or better than UConn was last year. Eggsavier will be better than BC was last year. So this year's exempt tournament is an upgrade. If we lose to Iowa, maybe not, but if we win, it's a BIG upgrade. If we beat ND and play Wichita State, it's a HUGE upgrade.
Last year we played two road games: at Arkansas and at Miami. This year, we play at Vanderbilt. I'm not going to argue that one road game is better than two, but is it really better to play a 250-ish RPI team on the road? It's reasonable to argue that, I suppose, but plenty of people have been calling for us to drop the Miami series. UD tried and tried and tried to get some other road or neutral games, but couldn't make it work, so we elected to not play an extra road game.
You already said that the buy games are an upgrade. Furman won't be that good, but they return a lot of their production from last year, and they did finish well in the conference tournament last year. W&M will be pretty good - that game actually scares me as it's between Alabama and the Orlando tournament, and looks like a classic trap game. They are top-100 RPI material, might be better than say, G Tech was last year. North Florida won their conference and lost a close game in the First Four. They ought to be decent. Chatanooga is a trendy pick for a midmajor sleeper, even though they lost their coach to VCU. Then we have Miami at home, an Arkansas team who won't be as good as they were last year, and Alabama, who won't be great, but ought to be decent, have several big name recruits coming in the following year, get us on ESPN, and get us a home and home with a Power 5 team.
So the buy games are better, the exempt tournament is better, the home-and-home games are about the same (probably better cause we'll get Vandy at home next year, and at Bama who will be better next year) and the road game this year is arguably better for us than playing an extra road game against a bad team. So if you think that is backwards, I'd love to hear some actual reasoning behind it. Something besides repeating the one road game mantra.
And again, the results speak for themselves, I think. UD won two games in the NCAA last year. VCU won zero. The year before, UD won three games in the NCAA, VCU won zero. UMass played a very tough schedule last year and did not make the NCAA tournament.
UD did a fine job putting together this year's schedule. Could it be better? Maybe. Should it be better? Maybe. Is it a step backwards? No way.
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08-31-2015, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
The buy games may be better this year, hard to get real excited about that though.
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Especially since you don't go to the games. And have you read the scheduling articles cited by THirt, particularly the one about UD?
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08-31-2015, 10:14 PM
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You already said that the buy games are an upgrade. Furman won't be that good, but they return a lot of their production from last year, and they did finish well in the conference tournament last year. W&M will be pretty good - that game actually scares me as it's between Alabama and the Orlando tournament, and looks like a classic trap game. They are top-100 RPI material, might be better than say, G Tech was last year. North Florida won their conference and lost a close game in the First Four. They ought to be decent.
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Just to elaborate, I really like this Bill & Mary team. They are EASILY top 100. They did lose their best player, but they return just about everyone else, and a lot of the time when that happens teams are actually better because it forces the other players to develop.
North Florida will likely win 25 games (albeit against a mostly weak schedule). I think they have all their starters back as well. Matt Driscoll is a coach most people have not heard of, but that won't be the case for long. He was the associate head coach at Baylor and played a key role in turning them around. He took over North Florida when they were a transitional team, and has totally built them up. I think this will be his last year there. I was kind of surprised no one hired him after last season.
I'm not a fan of buy games when they're scheduled against teams that just want to get paid and have no intention of competing. But, I do think these are two really good games to play. William & Mary is actually good enough to beat a team that overlooks them.
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09-01-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Especially since you don't go to the games. And have you read the scheduling articles cited by THirt, particularly the one about UD?
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Yeah, I read it...I thought CSU hc Eustachy used some qualifiers in the video...he did not say that nobody would play CSU, he said that non-conference scheduling is a balancing act, you can't play mudrerer's row, but you can't play cupcake city either.
So, I think he left himself open to some criticism.
It sounds like there are in fact some teams that will play CSU, but CSU doesn't want to play them.
Seems like CSU might be being a little picky here.
I'd like to apologize to Alberto for my last post going a little overboard.
I just can't understand why UD would schedule only one true road game especially in light of last year's circumstances of being one of the last four in and with SOS being used as the reason for the slight.
Did UD call CSU and try to get a home and home? Seems like a perfect match.
I bet UD is the only good non-p5 school in the country this year that is playing a 17/13 setup, the only one.
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09-01-2015, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I hate to sound like a Cubs fan, but I really do think it's "next year." We just need to perform well 1 more year in the post season to have the credibility to upgrade.
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Could be, that could be it, I think VCU, Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier, etc. may have had to sort of build up their OOC SOS over the years, but also it's not like UD has not had success, UD just hasn't strung together multiple NCAA appearances over a longer period of time, that may be the sticking point. Just very skeptical that UD can't find some decent home and home partners. I'll be watching next year, lol.
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09-01-2015, 11:08 PM
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Playing Colorado State is a perfect match only if the dates and times work out, and thats the most difficult part of scheduling.
There are dates and times you cannot schedule, and there are also dates and times you cannot schedule -- at least a team two time zones away.
UD may have had a Saturday afternoon home game already scheduled, and CSU said to UD "we can play you in Ft. Collins that Thursday night."
Which is the same as basically having a game already scheduled on Thursday night. You arent gonna send kids 1000 miles to Ft. Collins for a road game when they have 36hrs to compete, get back to campus, rest, practice, scout the next opponent, and play again. Especially in December when Colorado weather patterns can turn airline travel into a nightmare. Watched plenty of Ram football games on ESPN where its snowing sideways and there are 6 foot snow embankments in the end zones for a late-season football game. The Wyoming trip was a travel calamity a few years ago.
Not saying this is any reason for why we are not playing CSU. Im merely offering up a plausible reason that happens all too frequently. Things have to work out nearly perfect in order to successfully schedule a non-con opponent. And half of that perfection is the opponent having just as much interest in playing you as you playing them.
Travel is not easy on teams, especially the further west we go. We've seen it on the women's side too. Losses at Gonzaga, Wazzu, New Mexico, USC, Wyoming, Vegas Tournament, SMU, etc.
These teams get the same diavantage when they come to UD Arena. SMU, Wyoming, New Mexico, Texas A&M, all lost here. USC needed a shot at the buzzer to win.
When you are Kansas, you can schedule your Top-15 non-con matchups early in the scheduling process when your calendar is completely wide open, then fill in the rest with the cupcakes later on when you control the Ouija board as to when you play Norfolk State.
Unfortunately Dayton does not have that luxury We've got to get decent games whenever we can get them and cannot keep the schedule open mid-August in case UCLA has a change of heart or loses a game and needs a quick opponent to fill in and that might be us. Some teams schedule others. And other teams get scheduled. We're a little of both.
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09-02-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I just can't understand why UD would schedule only one true road game especially in light of last year's circumstances of being one of the last four in and with SOS being used as the reason for the slight.
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Well what is more important to you? Playing more than 1 road game or having a stronger SOS? Because you can have a stronger SOS without playing more road games. And we could play all OOC games on the road and have a weaker SOS. Dayton clearly upgraded its buy games, is playing in a much better exempt tournament, and will be playing in a stronger A10 this year. But keep harping on that 1 road game, maybe the 30th time you bring it up you will get people to agree with you.
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09-02-2015, 09:41 AM
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09-02-2015, 09:58 AM
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Maybe not a popular thing to do on this board, but this thread is going to be interesting to revisit the day after Selection Sunday this season. Enough here to put the crow on the endangered species list.
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09-02-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Maybe not a popular thing to do on this board, but this thread is going to be interesting to revisit the day after Selection Sunday this season. Enough here to put the crow on the endangered species list.
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Don't get me wrong, I want UD to play a better schedule, and I am sure everyone on here would agree. But to act like UD didn't try to improve their schedule and to totally blast UD for their system that has gotten them into the tournament the last 2 years and has had us in the conversation even after tanking in A10 many years is crazy. Also, maybe it is the because same person keeps saying the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN with no new facts that has people totally striking down the conversation.
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I think the people criticizing ud2 don't necessarily disagree with everything he has said. It's just that he says the same thing over and over and over and over and over..... I wish we had a second road game (and have posted that), but I understand there are reasons we don't, and I'm not going to harp on it over and over and over. I would also like some better home-and-homes, but I understand there are reasons we can't get them, and I'm not going to harp on it over and over and over. I think we would all like to improve our SOS, but we're not going to harp on it over and over and over.
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09-02-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I think the people criticizing ud2 don't necessarily disagree with everything he has said. It's just that he says the same thing over and over and over and over and over..... I wish we had a second road game (and have posted that), but I understand there are reasons we don't, and I'm not going to harp on it over and over and over. I would also like some better home-and-homes, but I understand there are reasons we can't get them, and I'm not going to harp on it over and over and over. I think we would all like to improve our SOS, but we're not going to harp on it over and over and over.
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...and over.
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09-02-2015, 11:03 AM
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I think a Top 50 RPI game on the road this year, with a Top 50 RPI return game in 2016-2017, would have made this schedule a home run. It sounds like coaching staff wanted that as well. But the absence of that game doesn't make the schedule a disaster. We're close.
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09-02-2015, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Which is the same as basically having a game already scheduled on Thursday night. You arent gonna send kids 1000 miles to Ft. Collins for a road game when they have 36hrs to compete, get back to campus, rest, practice, scout the next opponent, and play again. Especially in December when Colorado weather patterns can turn airline travel into a nightmare. Watched plenty of Ram football games on ESPN where its snowing sideways and there are 6 foot snow embankments in the end zones for a late-season football game. The Wyoming trip was a travel calamity a few years ago.
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I'm nitpicking here and I completely agree with you on the scheduling issues.
However, as one that lives out here, Laramie, WY in 2003 and Fort Collins, CO in 2015 are very different circumstances. Laramie is very difficult to get to. I believe UD in 2003 was using commercial flights? I could be wrong, but I remember reading they had to fly into DIA and then drive to Laramie, which is a good distance. A good snow storm did hit that Saturday night after the game, I had a very difficult drive back to Denver from Laramie and it was very sketchy. I believe that game was in January. Fort Collins has its own airport that UD could easily get to now with a charter flight. Nov and Dec tend to be pretty mild out here, for CO that is.
I think you are onto something with the Thurs scheduling though. I know CSU seems to play a lot of Thurs games where UD tends not to. CSU men's basketball schedule doesn't seem to fit UD's all that well in terms of the days of the week they play on.
CSU does have a similar problem as UD. Nobody wants to play them in a home/home. I've heard Eustachy lament about it on the radio. He is building a program there, but they aren't quite at New Mexico or UNLV's level yet in terms of respect.
Count me as one who would absolutely LOVE a UD-CSU home/home.
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles
I'm nitpicking here and I completely agree with you on the scheduling issues.
However, as one that lives out here, Laramie, WY in 2003 and Fort Collins, CO in 2015 are very different circumstances. Laramie is very difficult to get to. I believe UD in 2003 was using commercial flights? I could be wrong, but I remember reading they had to fly into DIA and then drive to Laramie, which is a good distance. A good snow storm did hit that Saturday night after the game, I had a very difficult drive back to Denver from Laramie and it was very sketchy. I believe that game was in January. Fort Collins has its own airport that UD could easily get to now with a charter flight. Nov and Dec tend to be pretty mild out here, for CO that is.
I think you are onto something with the Thurs scheduling though. I know CSU seems to play a lot of Thurs games where UD tends not to. CSU men's basketball schedule doesn't seem to fit UD's all that well in terms of the days of the week they play on.
CSU does have a similar problem as UD. Nobody wants to play them in a home/home. I've heard Eustachy lament about it on the radio. He is building a program there, but they aren't quite at New Mexico or UNLV's level yet in terms of respect.
Count me as one who would absolutely LOVE a UD-CSU home/home.
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The Mountain West used to play a Thursday/Saturday format. They have changed it to Wednesday/Saturday this year, though. I agree that Colorado State is not hard to get to, so if that's what people are saying as to why they won't play them, then that's ridiculous.
I do have a question that I think I know the "real" answer to, but what is the "stated" reason that Colorado and Colorado State have basically cut Denver University out of the Front Range rivalry games?? Colorado State still plays Northern Colorado home-and-home, so why them and not Denver?? Just curious. I actually like the idea of mythical rivalry conferences, and the Front Range and Big Five are seemingly the only two.
....but on that note, I find it almost impossible to believe that Denver would not have bent over backwards to play them. So, I'm kinda curious as to why they "had" to schedule a couple of div2 teams to fill out the schedule.
I think the problem in general is how particular so many schools are when it comes to scheduling. They don't want to play any road games against non-power conference teams, or against teams outside the top 100, or only want home and homes against the power five, or want all their big home games prior to the start of Christmas Break, or want to only focus on playing teams that play similar to their conference rivals, or not wanting to play specific schools because they want to avoid a rivalry, or not wanting to play on the road during the week, or wanting to ease into their schedule and not want to play any tough teams for the first couple of weeks, or only want to play road games that are on CBS or ESPN, or...any number of reasons.
It is impossible for everyone to get the schedule that they want, especially when the only thing that all the programs have in common is that they don't want to concede anything. The teams that get "good schedules" are either the very few elite programs that are in a unique position of getting to hand pick their schedules, or the ones that are actually willing to concede a little bit to get good games. Scheduling is hard, and the more particular a school is in regards to how they want to schedule, the harder it is, ESPECIALLY when they're dealing with other programs that are just as particular about the schedules they want to put together. At the end of the day, I don't think the Colorado States of the world will ever be able to get the schedule exactly as they want it, but I also think they could do a better job of building a schedule that's better than the one they ultimately ended up with if they'd only be a little less particular.
....and I still don't understand why all the schools that have this problem, and there are a lot of them, don't do a better job of scheduling each other. There are only so many top 100 Power Conference teams to go around, and when they all want to play at least nine OOC games at home while only wanting to play other P5 teams on the road, then..well...
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09-02-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
The Mountain West used to play a Thursday/Saturday format. They have changed it to Wednesday/Saturday this year, though. I agree that Colorado State is not hard to get to, so if that's what people are saying as to why they won't play them, then that's ridiculous.
I do have a question that I think I know the "real" answer to, but what is the "stated" reason that Colorado and Colorado State have basically cut Denver University out of the Front Range rivalry games?? Colorado State still plays Northern Colorado home-and-home, so why them and not Denver?? Just curious. I actually like the idea of mythical rivalry conferences, and the Front Range and Big Five are seemingly the only two.
....but on that note, I find it almost impossible to believe that Denver would not have bent over backwards to play them. So, I'm kinda curious as to why they "had" to schedule a couple of div2 teams to fill out the schedule.
I think the problem in general is how particular so many schools are when it comes to scheduling. They don't want to play any road games against non-power conference teams, or against teams outside the top 100, or only want home and homes against the power five, or want all their big home games prior to the start of Christmas Break, or want to only focus on playing teams that play similar to their conference rivals, or not wanting to play specific schools because they want to avoid a rivalry, or not wanting to play on the road during the week, or wanting to ease into their schedule and not want to play any tough teams for the first couple of weeks, or only want to play road games that are on CBS or ESPN, or...any number of reasons.
It is impossible for everyone to get the schedule that they want, especially when the only thing that all the programs have in common is that they don't want to concede anything. The teams that get "good schedules" are either the very few elite programs that are in a unique position of getting to hand pick their schedules, or the ones that are actually willing to concede a little bit to get good games. Scheduling is hard, and the more particular a school is in regards to how they want to schedule, the harder it is, ESPECIALLY when they're dealing with other programs that are just as particular about the schedules they want to put together. At the end of the day, I don't think the Colorado States of the world will ever be able to get the schedule exactly as they want it, but I also think they could do a better job of building a schedule that's better than the one they ultimately ended up with if they'd only be a little less particular.
....and I still don't understand why all the schools that have this problem, and there are a lot of them, don't do a better job of scheduling each other. There are only so many top 100 Power Conference teams to go around, and when they all want to play at least nine OOC games at home while only wanting to play other P5 teams on the road, then..well...
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Much respect to Temple. How do they do it?
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09-03-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I actually like the idea of mythical rivalry conferences, and the Front Range and Big Five are seemingly the only two.
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If you're talking about local team group scheduling, you also have a few others.
In the state of Iowa has the Hy-Vee Classic, with Iowa, Iowa State, Drake and Northern Iowa.
In Connecticut you have the Big 6, with Central Connecticut, Fairfield, Hartford, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart and Yale.
In Upstate New York, they have Big 4, with Niagara, Buffalo, Canisius and Saint Bonaventure.
I think these are all one-day events, with opponents switching from year to year.
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09-03-2015, 09:53 AM
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Thirt, longtimefan, eagle, Sdf, bcross, etc...yes, they have hopefully improved the buy games, but buy games are inherently a guessing game, I have no real criticism there...the exempt tournaments are largely out of their control, I have no criticism of the exempt tournaments either...the home and homes are similar...so, the SOS could be significantly better this year...last year GT was down, as was Miami and BC.
My criticism is the number of buy games that they play.
But, on the other hand: maybe lose to Iowa, maybe some buy games are duds, Arkansas is maybe down, maybe Miami is down, maybe Alabama is down...things could get dicey with the SOS.
I never called the schedule a disaster, I certainly hate only playing one true road game though, the selection committee is not going to like that at all IMO.
To eagle's point, you will have an extremely difficult time of significantly upgrading the SOS without playing more road games, it is basically impossible to really significantly upgrade the SOS without playing more road games.
The point is that the SOS almost cost them last year. Why take that risk again?
Why not be proactive and make an adjustment? If you go to 15/15, you cushion yourself against the possibility of some teams being down and/or UD losing in the first round of the exempt tournament.
All the other good non-p5 schools maximize their opportunities by playing a 15/15 setup, UD is the outlier, and again, UD has averaged 6th place in the A10 SOS standings over a fairly long period of time, so good teams will play A10 teams in h/h series, contrary to what UD is publically saying.
Just doesn't make sense IMO to expose yourself to the same risk after you almost got bit last year. Makes no sense at all IMO.
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09-03-2015, 10:09 AM
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Once again, ud2, (since you are a fan of repeating yourself) have you read the Doug Harris article about UD scheduling cited by THirt?
Edit: I studied your post carefully trying to find something new. Couldn't find anything.
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09-03-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Thirt, longtimefan, eagle, Sdf, bcross, etc...yes, they have hopefully improved the buy games, but buy games are inherently a guessing game, I have no real criticism there...the exempt tournaments are largely out of their control, I have no criticism of the exempt tournaments either...the home and homes are similar...so, the SOS could be significantly better this year...last year GT was down, as was Miami and BC.
My criticism is the number of buy games that they play.
But, on the other hand: maybe lose to Iowa, maybe some buy games are duds, Arkansas is maybe down, maybe Miami is down, maybe Alabama is down...things could get dicey with the SOS.
I never called the schedule a disaster, I certainly hate only playing one true road game though, the selection committee is not going to like that at all IMO.
To eagle's point, you will have an extremely difficult time of significantly upgrading the SOS without playing more road games, it is basically impossible to really significantly upgrade the SOS without playing more road games.
The point is that the SOS almost cost them last year. Why take that risk again?
Why not be proactive and make an adjustment? If you go to 15/15, you cushion yourself against the possibility of some teams being down and/or UD losing in the first round of the exempt tournament.
All the other good non-p5 schools maximize their opportunities by playing a 15/15 setup, UD is the outlier, and again, UD has averaged 6th place in the A10 SOS standings over a fairly long period of time, so good teams will play A10 teams in h/h series, contrary to what UD is publically saying.
Just doesn't make sense IMO to expose yourself to the same risk after you almost got bit last year. Makes no sense at all IMO.
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Adding crap road games against Miami OH and others like that just to get to the 15/15 model you love so much isn't going to help either. If you can't find teams that want to play you either at home or on the road, you do the best you can. They have upgraded every other part of their schedule. They couldn't find a good quality team to play on the road. I don't know why you can't seem to understand how it works after multiple people, including myself, have told you and multiple articles about UD and other schools have problems scheduling. It is not even close to as simple as you think it is.
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09-03-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Once again, ud2, (since you are a fan of repeating yourself) have you read the Doug Harris article about UD scheduling cited by THirt?
Edit: I studied your post carefully trying to find something new. Couldn't find anything.
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No, I did not read it, I looked for it on the DDN site, but I couldn't find it, can you please repost the link?
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09-03-2015, 10:45 AM
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I noticed that VCU is playing 17/14. Are they crazy? Don't they know that ALL the other good non-p5 schools play 15/15??? Makes no sense. No sense at all. Zero sense.
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09-03-2015, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Adding crap road games against Miami OH and others like that just to get to the 15/15 model you love so much isn't going to help either. If you can't find teams that want to play you either at home or on the road, you do the best you can. They have upgraded every other part of their schedule. They couldn't find a good quality team to play on the road. I don't know why you can't seem to understand how it works after multiple people, including myself, have told you and multiple articles about UD and other schools have problems scheduling. It is not even close to as simple as you think it is.
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Then how comes 5 other A10 teams on average year after year after year are able to have a better SOS than UD?
You guys keep posting the same stuff too.
Just last year alone, VCU, UMass, and GW all played at least 6 road/neutral games vs. good opponents, why can't UD do that?
Eustachy wasn't firm, he qualified his argument, I don't buy his argument either, he is too particular and inflexible.
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09-03-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross
I noticed that VCU is playing 17/14. Are they crazy? Don't they know that ALL the other good non-p5 schools play 15/15??? Makes no sense. No sense at all. Zero sense.
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Cherry picking, check their schedule for about the last 10 years in a row.
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09-03-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Cherry picking, check their schedule for about the last 10 years in a row.
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But cherry picking is fun.
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09-03-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Then how comes 5 other A10 teams on average year after year after year are able to have a better SOS than UD?
You guys keep posting the same stuff too.
Just last year alone, VCU, UMass, and GW all played at least 6 road/neutral games vs. good opponents, why can't UD do that?
Eustachy wasn't firm, he qualified his argument, I don't buy his argument either, he is too particular and inflexible.
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How did that work out for UMass and GW? Since you keep bringing these two up I will keep my same argument.
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Originally Posted by bcross
But cherry picking is fun.
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Haha, good one, I was smoking crack at the time.
They weren't getting anywhere with BG, I was looking for a different approach, I was desperate. I wanted anything to change.
I have since changed my mind obviously.
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09-03-2015, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
If you're talking about local team group scheduling, you also have a few others.
In the state of Iowa has the Hy-Vee Classic, with Iowa, Iowa State, Drake and Northern Iowa.
In Connecticut you have the Big 6, with Central Connecticut, Fairfield, Hartford, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart and Yale.
In Upstate New York, they have Big 4, with Niagara, Buffalo, Canisius and Saint Bonaventure.
I think these are all one-day events, with opponents switching from year to year.
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I forgot about the Big Four in New York. They just recently resumed that, didn't they??
Do the six teams in Connecticut go all out by keeping mythical standings and actually hanging a banner??
The Hy-Vee was a good one too, although as of two years ago it's changed. Iowa and Iowa State still play every year, but I think as of two years ago they now have a double header where Iowa plays either Drake or Northern Iowa, and Iowa State plays the other one. So, they don't all play each other every the way they used to any more.
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09-03-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Haha, good one, I was smoking crack at the time.
They weren't getting anywhere with BG, I was looking for a different approach, I was desperate. I wanted anything to change.
I have since changed my mind obviously.
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So what you're saying is that you don't actually have a plan or really any facts to back your argument, you just know for sure that the people doing their jobs must be doing it wrong.
"So you say you've got a real solution. . . well, you know. We'd all love to see the plan."
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The last 4 conference games are going to make or break our season.
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I shaved my balls for this?
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09-03-2015, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The last 4 conference games are going to make or break our season.
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I think that depends a whole lot on what happened to that point.
I think they could either make or break the season but they could do neither.
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09-03-2015, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I forgot about the Big Four in New York. They just recently resumed that, didn't they??
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Yea, I think just the last 2 or 3 years.
Originally Posted by xubrew
Do the six teams in Connecticut go all out by keeping mythical standings and actually hanging a banner??
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I have no idea if they do that or not. But, they do announce the games as Connecticut 6, and have it at a neutral place.
Originally Posted by xubrew
The Hy-Vee was a good one too, although as of two years ago it's changed. Iowa and Iowa State still play every year, but I think as of two years ago they now have a double header where Iowa plays either Drake or Northern Iowa, and Iowa State plays the other one. So, they don't all play each other every the way they used to any more.
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Yea, since Iowa/Iowa State already home-and-home it consistently, they just add Drake and Northern Iowa to the mix for a double header. But, it round-robins from one year to the next. And Drake/Northern Iowa are both in the MVC, so they won't play each other outside of conference. (Looks like Drake played both Iowa/Iowa State up until 2012-13 season.)
Wisconsin also plays Milwaukee and Green Bay. Kind of a big brother, little siblings type of setup, with both of them being 2-for-1 game sets.
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09-03-2015, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
Yea, I think just the last 2 or 3 years.
I have no idea if they do that or not. But, they do announce the games as Connecticut 6, and have it at a neutral place.
Yea, since Iowa/Iowa State already home-and-home it consistently, they just add Drake and Northern Iowa to the mix for a double header. But, it round-robins from one year to the next. And Drake/Northern Iowa are both in the MVC, so they won't play each other outside of conference. (Looks like Drake played both Iowa/Iowa State up until 2012-13 season.)
Wisconsin also plays Milwaukee and Green Bay. Kind of a big brother, little siblings type of setup, with both of them being 2-for-1 game sets.
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I didn't know that about the Connecticut Six.
The Front Range (used to) get into it. Now that some of the teams aren't playing Denver, I'm not sure if the Front Range is even a thing anymore. Air Force, Wyoming and Colorado State are all in the same conference, so they would designate one of the two conference games as the Front Range game. The other wouldn't count in the mythical conference standings (which is kind of a funny way of putting it). The Big Five did that as well when Joe's, Temple and La Salle were all in the same conference. So, you could actually lose to a Front Range or Big Five team, but still be undefeated in Big Five play.
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09-03-2015, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I do have a question that I think I know the "real" answer to, but what is the "stated" reason that Colorado and Colorado State have basically cut Denver University out of the Front Range rivalry games?? Colorado State still plays Northern Colorado home-and-home, so why them and not Denver?? Just curious. I actually like the idea of mythical rivalry conferences, and the Front Range and Big Five are seemingly the only two.
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I honestly do not have an answer for you. As far as I know, there has been no "stated" reason. College athletics, especially basketball, does not get much coverage out here, so there hasn't been any uproar about CSU and CU dropping DU to generate any kind of explanation.
The only reason I can think of is that both schools view DU as a threat of some kind. It is a tremendous school and they are trying hard to build up their basketball program. As you probably know, they already have a tremendous hockey program. Northern Colorado is no threat whatsoever...to anyone. That is the only reason I can think of.
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09-03-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross
But cherry picking is fun.
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
So what you're saying is that you don't actually have a plan or really any facts to back your argument, you just know for sure that the people doing their jobs must be doing it wrong.
"So you say you've got a real solution. . . well, you know. We'd all love to see the plan."
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I nominate these for posts of the year! (And if it were me I would be too ashamed to complain about the schedule ever again.)
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09-03-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
No, I did not read it, I looked for it on the DDN site, but I couldn't find it, can you please repost the link?
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Go to the thread "Tip Off Marathon" posts #50, 59, 69, and 74. (And there will be a quiz.)
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Mad Props to longtimefan For This Totally Excellent Post:
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09-03-2015, 09:54 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by jack72
Virginia is playing at George Washington!!
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...and last year they played at VCU, a difficult place to win (they snapped VCU's 22 game home win streak). Major props to UVA for not being cowardly like some of the other "power" (sic) conference teams (I'm looking at you, tOSU...cough cough.)
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09-04-2015, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
So what you're saying is that you don't actually have a plan or really any facts to back your argument, you just know for sure that the people doing their jobs must be doing it wrong.
"So you say you've got a real solution. . . well, you know. We'd all love to see the plan."
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It is impossible to prove what the best way to compose a schedule is, what the best balance between buy games and non-buy games is, etc.
If it was possible to prove, then everybody would be scheduling that way.
IMO, there is a strong correlation between scheduling tougher and a program improving.
Look at Butler, VCU, Xavier, Gonzaga, etc., when they improved their SOS, those programs reached greater heights.
To my knowledge, based upon the data that I've seen, Creighton never did improve their OOC SOS, perhaps that is why they have never EVER made it past the round of 32 of the NCAA tournament.
Playing a tougher schedule makes you better, you don't improve by playing a weaker schedule.
However, I will grant that there does seem to be a build up period, such as making the NCAA tournament a few/several times consecutively, that occurs before a program's SOS improves. Perhaps UD will have to put together more than two consecutive NCAA tournament appearances before their SOS improves.
I'd like for the change to happen now while Archie is still here, also, IMO, time is of the essence in terms of qualifying for BE expansion. I think improving the SOS would take UD to a whole new level, a level that the BE would be impressed with.
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09-04-2015, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I nominate these for posts of the year! (And if it were me I would be too ashamed to complain about the schedule ever again.)
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Oh come on, the program was stuck in neutral with BG, I was looking for another approach, the approach they were using clearly was not working. Too many NIT's, not enough NCAA's. 6-11 vs. BCS teams, how is that getting anywhere?
BG struggled both in the A10 and non-con, if those numbers are accurate. That post was from 5? years ago maybe, I don't remember what time period the 6-11 referenced.
5 years ago, wow, talk about dredging up the past. Sheesh.
If I ever did that to somebody, I think I'd be too ashamed to ever post again.
Archie has definitely taken the program to a completely different level.
6-11 vs. BCS clubs is not that good, wouldn't you agree? Under those circumstances, why not try something new?
And I'd like an answer to my questions in this post, don't blow me off like you sometimes do and ignore my questions. I always answer all your questions.
Last edited by ud2; 09-04-2015 at 12:27 AM..
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09-04-2015, 09:33 AM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by ud2
Oh come on, the program was stuck in neutral with BG, I was looking for another approach, the approach they were using clearly was not working. Too many NIT's, not enough NCAA's. 6-11 vs. BCS teams, how is that getting anywhere?
BG struggled both in the A10 and non-con, if those numbers are accurate. That post was from 5? years ago maybe, I don't remember what time period the 6-11 referenced.
5 years ago, wow, talk about dredging up the past. Sheesh.
If I ever did that to somebody, I think I'd be too ashamed to ever post again.
Archie has definitely taken the program to a completely different level.
6-11 vs. BCS clubs is not that good, wouldn't you agree? Under those circumstances, why not try something new?
And I'd like an answer to my questions in this post, don't blow me off like you sometimes do and ignore my questions. I always answer all your questions.
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Where did you get these numbers, since I can't seem to match them.
Brian Gregory started in the 2003-04 season, and left after the 2010-11 season.
I have us at 9-12 against these teams in the regular season: Cincinnati, DePaul, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, Auburn, Marquette, Georgia Tech, Villanova, Kansas State, Mississippi, and Seton Hall. Take away the 1-4 with Cincinnati, and we are at 8-8 against BCS teams.
Did I miss any games?
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09-04-2015, 10:04 AM
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Winning on the road will always be a point of emphasis. Two years ago, when the A10 got six teams in, the teams in the conference on average won over four games each away from home. When I say on average, that means Fordham was included in the average, so that's actually quite remarkable since the bulk of the conference actually won even more than that.
Now, with THAT being said, there were certain people on that selection committee that valued road wins so much that I think they basically dismissed any big wins that teams got at home, while also dismissing any significant road losses.
But, four people from that committee are no longer on the committee. While road wins are still important, I don't think they'll be AS important as they were last year, and especially not the year before. So, while I generally agree that there is more to gain than to lose by playing away from home, I think that in the grand scheme of things UD's schedule is fine.
Of course, I cannot link to this or prove this. It's just my own personal assessment.
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09-05-2015, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
Where did you get these numbers, since I can't seem to match them.
Brian Gregory started in the 2003-04 season, and left after the 2010-11 season.
I have us at 9-12 against these teams in the regular season: Cincinnati, DePaul, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, Auburn, Marquette, Georgia Tech, Villanova, Kansas State, Mississippi, and Seton Hall. Take away the 1-4 with Cincinnati, and we are at 8-8 against BCS teams.
Did I miss any games?
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Will look it all up and reply, as well as explaining the rationale of the original post from 5 years ago...essentially was arguing that since BG also struggled vs. BCS teams, that it would have been wise to play more mid and low majors, improving the rpi but with a worse SOS and get into the tournament that way...essentially being like Colorado State last year...maybe needed some change after 7 or 8 years of struggling...Archie's record vs. BCS is much better than BG's was.
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09-05-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Will look it all up and reply, as well as explaining the rationale of the original post from 5 years ago...essentially was arguing that since BG also struggled vs. BCS teams, that it would have been wise to play more mid and low majors, improving the rpi but with a worse SOS and get into the tournament that way...essentially being like Colorado State last year...maybe needed some change after 7 or 8 years of struggling...Archie's record vs. BCS is much better than BG's was.
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You couldn't be more wrong here. BG's strength was in the non-conference. We were normally positioned for an NCAA bid going into conference play after beating power teams (Louisville twice, Pitt, Marquette, Auburn, Georgia Tech, Ole Miss, Seton Hall). Then we would bomb in the conference (8-8). And he beat a power team in the 08-09 NCAA and four more power teams in the 09-10 NIT. This was discussed many times.
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09-16-2015, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
...and last year they played at VCU, a difficult place to win (they snapped VCU's 22 game home win streak). Major props to UVA for not being cowardly like some of the other "power" (sic) conference teams (I'm looking at you, tOSU...cough cough.)
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Not only is it not cowardly, it's strategic. Tony Bennett wants to play an early season game, even if it's the season opener, against an in-state/regional opponent. They've also played at Old Dominion, and I believe are going to William & Mary next year.
Yet, amazingly, doing this isn't hurting their program like so many programs seem to think that it will. It's an early road game, that's winnable, but even if they lose it's still great preparation for the ACC, and on a national level it's a loss that people pretty much forget about. No one really remembered or cared that both VCU and Green Bay beat them a few years ago. All anyone remembers is that they won the ACC and earned a #1 seed.
Only two buy games for the Hoos. They don't subscribe to the "everything to gain and nothing to lose" type of thinking. If more teams did this, then perhaps basketball would be more interesting to more people in November and December instead of being so far on the backburner of most sports fans up until at least January.
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4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to xubrew For This Totally Excellent Post:
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