Rollo's Rants - Scott ad nauseum

[rollo]

I find it interesting, in a sickening way, that us UD fans will spend 6+ pages of a thread dedicated to the color and shape of a 'D' b*tching about it's ridiculousness yet will stand up and vehemently support the reinstatement of Kavs and - soon - Scott. The players, we were and will be told, are fine and dandy and we have to, of course, trust Archie and Tim Wabler's judgment...who just happen to be the same two guys who approved of the new logo.

My suggestion...accept the new logo. To complain about it and in next month's breath welcome Scott back with open arms will only expose you as a fool.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I find it interesting, in a sickening way, that us UD fans will spend 6+ pages of a thread dedicated to the color and shape of a 'D' *****ing about it's ridiculousness yet will stand up and vehemently support the reinstatement of Kavs.....

But for sure, no Kavs, no Elite 8.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by rollo I find it interesting, in a sickening way, that us UD fans will spend 6+ pages of a thread dedicated to the color and shape of a 'D' *****ing about it's ridiculousness yet will stand up and vehemently support the reinstatement of Kavs and - soon - Scott. The players, we were and will be told, are fine and dandy and we have to, of course, trust Archie and Tim Wabler's judgment...who just happen to be the same two guys who approved of the new logo. My suggestion...accept the new logo. To complain about it and in next month's breath welcome Scott back with open arms will only expose you as a fool.

Can we assume that you will continue to punish the university by withholding you presence at home games again this year, should Scott be a member to the team?

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer But for sure, no Kavs, no Elite 8.

Which is equally sickening.

As I've said 100 times....I'd rather lose with winners than win with losers.

Kavs = strike 1
Scott = soon-to-be strike 2
We're one cover-up away - strike 3 - from having to change our logo to UC.

Originally Posted by UD62 Can we assume that you will continue to punish the university by withholding you presence at home games again this year, should Scott be a member to the team?

Never assume anything from your King...and no, I'll be at a few games this season. As I announced a couple weeks ago, I'll won't support Scott or the Administration for their ignorant and ill-advised decisions...but I'll attend games. Not many...just enough to appease my minions who are demanding a Royal comeback.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo Which is equally sickening. As I've said 100 times....I'd rather lose with winners than win with losers. Kavs = strike 1 Scott = soon-to-be strike 2 We're one cover-up away - strike 3 - from having to change our logo to UC. Never assume anything from your King...and no, I'll be at a few games this season. As I announced a couple weeks ago, I'll won't support Scott or the Administration for their ignorant and ill-advised decisions...but I'll attend games. Not many...just enough to appease my minions who are demanding a Royal comeback.

Really, cover up, how about innocent until proven guilty. Guess as long as Rollo thinks a person is guilty then he is. Believe me you won't be missed at the games. We did extremely well last year without you.

Your so called Kingship has been tarnished....and no one gives a rats a$$ if you attend games, minions or not.

BTW since you are now stating administration and not just athletic department (in past you distinguished your remarks as against the athletic department) will you continue to still be employed and accepting $$$ from the very institution you so disdain. I wouldn't work for someone whose morals differed so much from mine. If you continue to hold your job and accept $$$ then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Can't have it both ways.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer you continue to hold your job and accept $$$ then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Can't have it both ways.

Since the AD doesn't pay me, my paycheck is clean...and since Kavs was 'redshirted' for a season, he was far from innocent....so it's his supporters that are are the Royal problem.

But let's forget about alcohol, violence against women, coverups and the petty things 'cuz we all do it, right?...and get back to talking about the important stuff that affect daily life...UD's logos and colors.

UGH!

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo I find it interesting, in a sickening way, that us UD fans will spend 6+ pages of a thread dedicated to the color and shape of a 'D' b*tching about it's ridiculousness yet will stand up and vehemently support the reinstatement of Kavs and - soon - Scott. The players, we were and will be told, are fine and dandy and we have to, of course, trust Archie and Tim Wabler's judgment...who just happen to be the same two guys who approved of the new logo. My suggestion...accept the new logo. To complain about it and in next month's breath welcome Scott back with open arms will only expose you as a fool.

I don't think it is that some/many on here approve of the way that the Kavs and Scott situations were handled, I think it is simply that some/many, myself included, have no idea what exactly happened and aren't comfortable condemning someone without knowing what happened, therefore some/many are choosing to stay neutral.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Whacker]

re-routing this to it's own thread to keep the logo thread on topic

[Medford]

If Scott's fiance/girlfriend can seemingly forgive the alleged transgressions (whatever they may be, I don't specifically know any of the details), then can't both the University and its fan base forgive the young man as well?

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Whacker re-routing this to it's own thread to keep the logo thread on topic

While the King believes most of his posts are worthy of their own thread, this isn't one of them.

And I encourage everyone to continue to complain about the new logo, because as everyone knows;

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by rollo But let's forget about alcohol, violence against women, coverups and the petty things 'cuz we all do it, right?...and get back to talking about the important stuff that affect daily life...UD's logos and colors. UGH!

Kids come and go through the program, and like it or not the program made a commitment to the kid and he to the university.

These are not the first 2 misogynistic kids to come through, nor will they be the last. However, they are perhaps the first 2 to come through during the social media age, when almost nothing can be hidden.

Then, in addition to that, these kids will be gone 20 years from now, but I'm still going to be stuck looking at this logo.

[number21]

Is this considered enzo because I think I already read this in a different post?

That aside, for some reason Rollo has appointed himself to be the conscience of this board and the conscience of the University. I guess he works at UD and has all the "inside information" and wants to let us know every chance he gets.

We as fans have no control over the plight of DS. If you think I am going to boycott going to the games and boycott the program get another cause. It is an uncomfortable and unsettling situation as was the Kavs situation but every program has problems and UD is not immune.

	Enzo ENZO The act of posting information, starting a new topic, or responding to a thread when the information has already been posted countless times. In homage to automotive forums where wrecked Ferrari Enzo conversations are started without using the search button to ensure the topic has not already been covered ad infinitum.

[IndianaFlyer]

I just knew it couldn't last. Even when Chris closes the thread, we have to hijack another thread to beat it some more.

[rollo]

Some of you need to get over me.

The sooner the better.

[hawkoooo]

This thread is ignorant.

[NJFlyr71]

I think the two subjects 1) how the player acts and how the U responds to those 'acts' and 2) how people feel about logos, color schemes and uni's are at 2 different levels.

First, IF bad actions are done and full facts are not exposed to the general public, and the U's reaction is not completely exposed and everything is somewhat hearsay people can feel somewhat ambivalent toward the situation. (If fact not even connected to the situation as in 'doesn't impact me'.)

Secondly, the fan can feel almost directly connected to a logo or wordmark. They buy shirts, tees, sweat pants, hats that proclaim I like this school/team. How those colors, logo's and designs make statements, how the wearer FEELS when donning the clothes that is the personal connection to the U.

That connection to behind the scenes goings on such as personnel matters and the U starts to matter when the U reputation is affected in the boarder general public eye. A case in point is the gangsta story in Cincinnati a few years ago.

Then the base can be agitated, angry and demand ..... thats how this works.

So until such time that more fans feel impacted by the events of Kav or Scott the larger impact is on the silly logo ... I think it is how human nature works!

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I find it interesting, in a sickening way, that us UD fans will spend 6+ pages of a thread dedicated to the color and shape of a 'D' b*tching about it's ridiculousness yet will stand up and vehemently support the reinstatement of Kavs and - soon - Scott. The players, we were and will be told, are fine and dandy and we have to, of course, trust Archie and Tim Wabler's judgment...who just happen to be the same two guys who approved of the new logo. My suggestion...accept the new logo. To complain about it and in next month's breath welcome Scott back with open arms will only expose you as a fool.

It's completely ridiculous to compare a legal investigation and eligibility decision to a logo. You don't really need any facts at all or background information to make a judgement about a logo. If there is any topic made for a message board, that's it, because no matter how closely you follow the team, you can have a valid opinion on a logo. If it gets to 10+ pages, nothing weird about that. It's a good topic.

Compared to the other topic, I think many would rather not make judgments without having all the facts. There's a big difference between supporting the reinstatement of a player and believing the university will ultimately do the right thing, whatever that is, at the appropriate time. Unless you think the university is wrong to allow the legal process play out as it has, there's not much to criticize. Nothing that can be easily criticized at least. Nothing like a logo.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[rollo]

For NJFLYR71's common sense approach to all things UD (or is it VD?), his ability to communicate with courage and swag and willingness to speak his mind with clear and concise words, I do hereby request that you, NJFLYR71, kneel before thy King so that Queen Rollo may bestow upon you the greatest and most Honorable position afforded to our Nation.

From this day forward, through receipt of the Insignia, below, may the name NJFLYER71 be spoken and henceforth recognized as a deserving and respected member of the Order of the Golden Testicles. I dub thee Knight;

Rise, Sir NJFLYER71!

[CPFlyer]

I usually never agree with Rollo or his style of stating his case, but I have to say he is dead on with this. It is a freakin logo people. This is not some topic that deserves public outcry. How about homeless children, women that are alone and cannot support their family, how about something that actually matters. I don't believe Rollo's point is to bring up again about past transgressions. We have to admit both Kavs and Scott did something wrong. To what degree and if they received (or will receive) fair punishment is another debate, but they did wrong. So now compare that situation to a logo. We are fine with cheering for a player or two that puts our univeristy in a poor light, but be dammed we are going to make phone calls, arrange protests, withhold money for a freakin logo. Do people not understadn how crazy it is that they are so worked up over a logo? And for the record, I like the previous logo better than this one, BUT IS IS A LOGO, and I have much more to be worried about in my short time here.

[TMPH66]

It is interesting that some among us have designated themselves as moral arbitrators for mankind. There is no forgiveness nor empathy for their justice is blindly rigid. One error brings a death penalty. No pleading for the sympathy of the Judge. The miscreants will carry the stain for life. For that is what justice demands. Mercy has no quality. How about if the sinners are forced to wear a scarlet emblem in the form of a winged D. Make the wing in one shade so as not to confuse it with the letters VD. Does that appease the strict constructionists among us?

[Tony T 71]

Originally Posted by Whacker re-routing this to it's own thread to keep the logo thread on topic

Please list it as the "I am Rollo and I am holier than thou" thread

[keats '91]

You guys are rendering my IGNORE button useless...

[rollo]

Originally Posted by TMPH66 It is interesting that some among us have designated themselves as moral arbitrators for mankind. There is no forgiveness nor empathy for their justice is blindly rigid. One error brings a death penalty. No pleading for the sympathy of the Judge. The miscreants will carry the stain for life. For that is what justice demands. Mercy has no quality. How about if the sinners are forced to wear a scarlet emblem in the form of a winged D. Make the wing in one shade so as not to confuse it with the letters VD. Does that appease the strict constructionists among us?

[ud2]

Rollo, can you give me an update on Scott? The last court date was July 8. I'd look it up myself, but I don't know how to do that.

[Tony T 71]

Originally Posted by ud2 Rollo, can you give me an update on Scott? The last court date was July 8. I'd look it up myself, but I don't know how to do that.

And also the official status of Big Steve

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Rollo, can you give me an update on Scott? The last court date was July 8. I'd look it up myself, but I don't know how to do that.

His Criminal Pretrial is scheduled for Monday, 8/25 at 1:30PM in Courtroom 3A...UD classes start on Wednesday, 8/27.

Last Monday, 7/14, a subpoena was printed for Keonna Austin (similar subpoenas were printed on 6/4 and 6/23...not sure why so many...)

Originally Posted by Tony T 71 And also the official status of Big Steve

CBBF is our best source for Big Steve updates.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by rollo For NJFLYR71's common sense approach to all things UD (or is it VD?), his ability to communicate with courage and swag and willingness to speak his mind with clear and concise words, I do hereby request that you, NJFLYR71, kneel before thy King so that Queen Rollo may bestow upon you the greatest and most Honorable position afforded to our Nation. From this day forward, through receipt of the Insignia, below, may the name NJFLYER71 be spoken and henceforth recognized as a deserving and respected member of the Order of the Golden Testicles. I dub thee Knight; Rise, Sir NJFLYER71!

rollo. My great ancestors starting with Pompeuis Magnus Thank You for providing more balls to our family archives!

I can assure you that they will be treated with respect and given great care from this day forth!

I am sure that I can handle this great gift and honor that has been bestowed upon me.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 rollo. My great ancestors starting with Pompeuis Magnus Thank You for providing more balls to our family archives! I can assure you that they will be treated with respect and given great care from this day forth! I am sure that I can handle this great gift and honor that has been bestowed upon me.

Here's a toast to you...the manliest Magnus of all!

"Culus tibi purior salillo est, nec toto decies cacas in anno."

[SeasonTicketFan]

I hate to weigh in, but here goes.

1. We have a system of justice in the US that believes 10 guilty men should go free before 1 innocent is sentenced. That system ripples down into non government entities because it is a philosophy a cultural norm
2. In the case of Kav, he received a punishment, a one year suspension. I think Rollo argues that was not enough, but a) he provided no backup documentation, just hearsay b) the prosecutors office investigated and did not pursue. Hard for me and readers of the board to determine if that was proper punishment. BTW. Bonzi Wells sued X because he felt he was railroaded.

The university was left in a rock and hard spot between those who wanted more and those who wanted less. Kav had supporters who claimed he was railroaded. See my next point.

3) I heard hearsay from the other side from several sources that said Kav was railroaded. I chose not to print because it was hearsay. So even though I heard, I refrained because I have personally seen no proof one way or another. So even though I just mentioned, there is nothing tangible to back up those claims, so discount them....

I should mention I personally know of a case in which a friend was accused of domestic violence. He was innocent. His girlfriend thought he was cheating and hit him in the head with a beer bottle while he was sleeping then accused him of beating her up. If you read the initial police report and some eye witness testimony (which was her screaming bloody murder), you know for a fact he was guilty. Never mind the trip the hospital, the broken beer bottle scar on his head and cuts on his hands defending himself. (which for some reason was not recorded in the initial report, but amended later after the police investigated further. This is not to say everyone is innocent, but the Innocence Project found a number of people on death row who were fingered by the actual murderer! Because of bad behavior, it is very difficult to sort out cases even when there are witnesses. Also, women like the jealous woman above make it terrible for real victims of assault and rape.

So I am very skeptical of hearsay from BOTH sides.


4) Athletes do seem to get special privileges, but they also face higher scrutiny and higher future losses if accused. Athletes are not the only ones. Public figures face this too. We have a number of Wall Street bankers and politicians and white collar criminals who should be in jail these days and are not. If you rob a bank without a gun and get the average take of $4,000 you face 20 years. If you steal millions of dollars, you face a fine and probation. Our justice system is clearly not equal. Tiger Woods loses millions of dollars for cheating, but others not in the public light lose less. If Scott or Kav were not basketball players, they might have faced different scrutiny with higher or lower standards. BG told me once that Norman Plummer cost himself a ton of money when he was asked to leave UD. So he might have gotten away with certain behavior, he lost big future earnings.

5. Scott is suspended from the team until his legal issues are resolved. That is the only logical thing UD can do. UD might elect to remove him permanently from the team if he is found guilty. They might remove him if he is not found guilty. I think a wait and see is required.

Finally about logo. Fans see logos. They have all the facts (except for the story of how it was created). They are free to like dislike. Logos are art and everyone is subjective when it comes to art. But... To Rollos point, a logo is art and positioning. It will neither make nor break the program. There are lots of logos and mascots that don't please me. I can't stand the incessant flapping of the St. Joes hawks, but their fans, alumni think it is the coolest thing. I could not believe one comment about flushing $72 million down the drain. Compare that to the negative publicity of the X UC fight. I think X lost a lot more than will ever lose with the new logo.

Sorry for the long ramble.

[NJFlyr71]

"Southeastern Conference commissioner Mike Slive is confident the NCAA reform he's been pushing for years will take a big step toward becoming a reality in August.

The longtime leader of the SEC gave his annual state-of-the-conference speech at the beginning of the league's media days on Monday and wasn't shy about putting more pressure on the NCAA. He said college athletics "must be willing to make appropriate changes," including giving the Big Five conferences autonomy to make their own bylaws."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...nomy/12633321/

Although on first reading it seems they are addressing athlete - student concerns it won't be long that the wild west will look tamer than the actions taking place on and off the field (with the SEC driving this watch out everyone).

Pretty much the wolfs' getting together to guard the hen house with self imposed 'rules'. The SEC has been known to protect themselves and their brethren from any and everything ...

The integrity of Players-Universities will be greatly tested and the issues that the rest of us will deal with could be significant. Some of these players going to the NFL and NBA with bad behavior histories in school and all that money in the pro's will now be more visible IN school as they finally have in their hands as a Freshman more money than thought possible. It won't be like that immediately ... it will be over the next 5 years ....

With $Billions and $Billions on the line there will be NO stopping the Big 5.

aaaaaaaAND there is no UD logo (in the past, now or in the future) that will be able to compensate for the $$$ differential of the second tier conferences with the big 5. None, NADA, noway, finito!

[xubrew]

It won't be like that immediately ... it will be over the next 5 years ....

I'm thinking that it's going to be rather immediate.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ud2 I don't think it is that some/many on here approve of the way that the Kavs and Scott situations were handled, I think it is simply that some/many, myself included, have no idea what exactly happened and aren't comfortable condemning someone without knowing what happened, therefore some/many are choosing to stay neutral.

...or forgive

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Radar ...or forgive

Forgiveness and Accountability for one's actions are not mutually exclusive.

While rollo makes himself an easy target for the 'holier than thou' label, others are just as much deserving of that label themselves with comments like this.

I sure hope people would feel differently about these issues and be willing to look into them a bit more if their daughters were on the receiving end of the abuse. I'm guessing no elite8 vs. permanent suspension is an easy call to make when your stake in the argument is based on a person rather than a team's tournament chances.

If one's opinion would be different with this context that makes one a hypocrite.

While I often don't agree with how or how often rollo chooses to make his points I always respect someone who puts PRINCIPAL over PRAGMATISM.

Posted via Mobile Device

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Forgiveness and Accountability for one's actions are not mutually exclusive.Posted via Mobile Device

But reactions to new logos and reaction to player behavior are.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Radar But reactions to new logos and reaction to player behavior are.

Combine the players and the logo....what a brilliant idea!!

Curran and Wabler should have had #35 and #40 burst out from behind the magic curtain at the grand opening for the new uni's and logo...since they are beyond reproach nobody would have had the guts to criticize either since they would have been presented as one!

God, I'm brilliant....

I mean; Rollo, I'm brilliant!

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Radar But reactions to new logos and reaction to player behavior are.

you clearly missed his point
Posted via Mobile Device

[xubrew]

Rollo, in cases of sexual assault and/or domestic violence, do you feel that there are any campuses out there that actually handle it well??

You complain (very justifiably) about how UD has handled it. the thing is, I don't think it's a UD issue, or a student athlete issue. I think it's an issue that concerns all of higher education. Universities in general do a grotesquely **** poor job at handling sexual assaults. All of them. It extends way beyond UD and it doesn't matter if it's an athlete or not.

I think the biggest problem is that people who work in student affairs, and other university officials who involve themselves in these issues, are no more qualified to handle sexual assault cases than Bozo the Clown is.

When it comes to underage drinking, and quiet hours, and vandalism, and "environmental disrespect," they do okay....I guess. They are atrociously unqualified to handle actual police matters, especially matters as sensitive as sexual assault. Yet, they don't seem to understand that, and think they're the ones that should be handling it.

I've seen schools who's actual written guidelines for sexual assault victims stated that they should not call the police, but rather report it to the university. HUH?? That seems almost criminal to me, and I'm not exaggerating.

Here is a scary statistic that I believe I saw in Time Magazine. One out of every five women who attend college end up being sexual assault victims. That is an alarming ratio. If I were to tell you that 20 percent of all students who attend a given school would be held up at gun point, you wouldn't want to go there, and you wouldn't want to send your kids there. But, sexual assault can be every bit as traumatic, and the national average is that out of every five women who attend college anywhere in the country will be victims of sexual assault. For those of you with daughters, how does that make you feel??

Another thing that makes it tricky is that sexual assault or rape is one of the most underreported crimes. Having said that, it is also one of the most falsely reported crimes. It's very difficult to deal with and manage, and I think the vast majority of student affairs employees and university officials that I've come across are among the least qualified people on the planet to deal with something that is so difficult and so sensitive. Yet, that's who's handling it. In fact, I think that's no small part of the problem and why the numbers are so alarmingly high. There is rarely a sexual assault case that a university doesn't make a complete mess out of. They'd be much better off just calling the cops and getting the hell out of the way so the people who know what they're doing can take over.

Other than that, I really don't know what else to do. I understand why you're frustrated. I also understand that you probably know far more details than anyone else, but cannot say exactly what they are for obvious reasons. But, leaving UD and going somewhere else that's less frustrating as many here have suggested isn't the answer (not that for one second I thought that you thought it was). No matter where you go, it's probably going to be just as bad.

[NJFlyr71]

xubrew & marysville

I believe what may be happening within a short period of time is the increased influence in a NEGATIVE way concerning all things athlete - students

Change likely coming soon to NCAA
Big Ten and other top conferences will gain much more autonomy.
By Todd Jones
The Columbus Dispatch

The NCAA will cast a vote in 18 days that could alter the operations and oversight of college sports’ governing body in favor of revenue-rich schools such as Ohio State.
Ohio State Athletic Director Gene Smith is confident the vote by the Division I board of directors will grant the autonomous power sought by the five wealthiest conferences, including the Big Ten.
“I think the outcome is going to be highly positive,” Smith said. “I think in the end, we’ll be able to do what we want to do for our student-athletes in our types of institutions.”

I posted something similar in this thread. That the universities with $100M of dollars for themselves and writing their own by-laws will dampen bad behavior I have a bridge across Ohio for you. (I know you don't believe bad behavior will be handled better under the 'new structure of autonomy.)

Not that athletes are the majority of offenders but what they have is a secondary system (including to some extent local law enforcement, university athletic administrations including coaches and boosters) that provide the means to protect athletes from many bad behavior issues.

The new group will in all likelihood band together to protect the new system from any oversite and control

[rollo]

Originally Posted by xubrew Rollo, in cases of sexual assault and/or domestic violence, do you feel that there are any campuses out there that actually handle it well??

Miami Hurricanes just dismissed 2 football players for sexual battery (incapacitated/no consent)...no trial...on July 8th...I saw this when it was announced and thought "it's a start."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...tery/12361331/

My beef is no longer 100% with the players...it's with the administration who has specific policies and training for their athletes and when it comes time to enforce them, nothing is done. Essentially there are no lasting penalties for UD athlete thugs which I feel is pathetic considering all the free benefits they receive at our cost.

For fear of p*ssing off the enablers on this Board, I'll stop here. Almost everything they want to know is on the web but they won't admit or look for it*...I've found it...they just don't want to admit that UD is turning into UC-North, nor do they care as long as it results in wins...and a couple roughed up coeds who should have known better.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 xubrew & marysville I believe what may be happening within a short period of time is the increased influence in a NEGATIVE way concerning all things athlete - students Change likely coming soon to NCAA Big Ten and other top conferences will gain much more autonomy. By Todd Jones The Columbus Dispatch The NCAA will cast a vote in 18 days that could alter the operations and oversight of college sports’ governing body in favor of revenue-rich schools such as Ohio State. Ohio State Athletic Director Gene Smith is confident the vote by the Division I board of directors will grant the autonomous power sought by the five wealthiest conferences, including the Big Ten. “I think the outcome is going to be highly positive,” Smith said. “I think in the end, we’ll be able to do what we want to do for our student-athletes in our types of institutions.” I posted something similar in this thread. That the universities with $100M of dollars for themselves and writing their own by-laws will dampen bad behavior I have a bridge across Ohio for you. (I know you don't believe bad behavior will be handled better under the 'new structure of autonomy.) Not that athletes are the majority of offenders but what they have is a secondary system (including to some extent local law enforcement, university athletic administrations including coaches and boosters) that provide the means to protect athletes from many bad behavior issues. The new group will in all likelihood band together to protect the new system from any oversite and control

I think these are two completely different conversations.

I agree that I think they will vote to give autonomy to the power conferences. Even if they don't, it may be granted to them by court order because the O'Bannon case could not have gone any worse for the NCAA. Earlier I mentioned Bozo the Clown. In addition to being more qualified to handle incidents of sexual assault than most who work in student affairs, I also believe he would have provided a better legal defense for the NCAA than the jokers that they had. That decision is expected in August, it has almost zero chance of going in favor of the NCAA, and part of the decision will likely be that players are entitled to money.

So, with that in mind, I think changes are coming, and they're coming sooner, not later (hence my reply to you earlier in the thread). I think the power conferences will implement a stipend almost immediately, and they may even go further than that.

Now, with all that being said, I don't really see what it has to do with player behavior and the other issues that Rollo has raised.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by xubrew Now, with all that being said, I don't really see what it has to do with player behavior and the other issues that Rollo has raised.

Sir XU, with all due respect to two of my Roundtablers, I think what Sir NJFlyer71 is saying is that giving athletes at bigger schools new rules and a montly stipend will give them the feeling that they are now even more above the law and rules which may lead to even more bizarre behavior.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by xubrew Rollo, in cases of sexual assault and/or domestic violence, do you feel that there are any campuses out there that actually handle it well??

and this was just announced at UGa...sound familiar?


http://www.macon.com/2014/07/22/3209...rested-on.html

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by rollo Sir XU, with all due respect to two of my Roundtablers, I think what Sir NJFlyer71 is saying is that giving athletes at bigger schools new rules and a montly stipend will give them the feeling that they are now even more above the law and rules which may lead to even more bizarre behavior.

I may not have been clear in my intention with the post, but rollo took it and provided some clarity where it was needed!

If you have a large moneyed class in which they write all the rules AND have tremendous autonomy do you not think that if they choose, they will provide more to the catered and privileged then before? A parallel is what happens to athletes with bad behavior in school becoming highly paid athletes in the NFL (as an example). There are examples in this regard, you can't miss them ...

Now the only difference is that once out in the 'public' there isn't too much protection an athlete can hide under .... but in college ... sometimes besides the administration, you have local enforcement and the community to some degree that adds a layer of 'protection' to keep things under wraps .... with money you can even pay off the victim and witnesses IF YOU WERE SO INCLINED

Add to that over time, this autonomous group will write their own enforcement standards and we will have a major problem on our hands ...

That old sayin' Money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL ....

Thanks King Rollo!

[jack72]

For those of you who did not see the discussion on ESPN on Tuesday. It was stated that the NCAA has not brought any charges against a program in over a year. Previously they averaged about 6 per year. They further stated that the NCAA is grossly underfunded and cannot investigate much anymore.

What this shows is that the big schools have castrated their own governing body. As the president of Miami stated, "Do not talk about the NCAA as if they are some independent body; we the schools are the NCAA."

So the next step is redefining the NCAA for large football schools, who have hijacked the ship by starving the passengers and telling the press that the passengers are all sick.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by jack72 For those of you who did not see the discussion on ESPN on Tuesday. It was stated that the NCAA has not brought any charges against a program in over a year. Previously they averaged about 6 per year. They further stated that the NCAA is grossly underfunded and cannot investigate much anymore. What this shows is that the big schools have castrated their own governing body. As the president of Miami stated, "Do not talk about the NCAA as if they are some independent body; we the schools are the NCAA." So the next step is redefining the NCAA for large football schools, who have hijacked the ship by starving the passengers and telling the press that the passengers are all sick.

They don't give a crap about the rest of the passengers. They don't like the idea of Arkansas State having a say in what they can and cannot do. They want autonomy, and they've indicated that they will go so far as to leave the NCAA if they aren't allowed to have it.

I think they're going to get it after the vote next month. If they want to pay players a stipend, they'll be allowed to. If they want their own football subdivision with their own sets of rules, they'll get it. If they want to allow players to have access to the free market, they'll be able to do that.

I think they're going to get most of the things that they want, and I think you'll see it happen within the next five weeks.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Sir XU, with all due respect to two of my Roundtablers, I think what Sir NJFlyer71 is saying is that giving athletes at bigger schools new rules and a montly stipend will give them the feeling that they are now even more above the law and rules which may lead to even more bizarre behavior.

We'll see...a stipend may make some of the bad behavior go away...not all of these guys want to break the rules...a stipend may make them feel less taken advantage of/abused.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Miami Hurricanes just dismissed 2 football players for sexual battery (incapacitated/no consent)...no trial...on July 8th...I saw this when it was announced and thought "it's a start." http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...tery/12361331/ My beef is no longer 100% with the players...it's with the administration who has specific policies and training for their athletes and when it comes time to enforce them, nothing is done. Essentially there are no lasting penalties for UD athlete thugs which I feel is pathetic considering all the free benefits they receive at our cost. For fear of p*ssing off the enablers on this Board, I'll stop here. Almost everything they want to know is on the web but they won't admit or look for it*...I've found it...they just don't want to admit that UD is turning into UC-North, nor do they care as long as it results in wins...and a couple roughed up coeds who should have known better.

Just make it easy on everyone then and post the link, I don't know where to find this stuff...no penalties? Kavs was suspended for a year, and Scott still may be punished.

[rollo]

ud2, I sent you a detailed PM...not sure the main board could handle the message.

As for Kavs, he wasn't suspended from the basketball team...he was redshirted...UD's words not mine. So technically he didn't miss a game....4 years of FULL eligibility with a 1-year vacation in the middle...as well as vindication in the form of a diploma from the U and an E8 ring to go with it...yeah, if I were him I'd have a hard time saying I was 'punished' especially since nobody came out smelling more like a rose in the NCAA run than your #35.

[Flyer69ers]

Kavs and his family suffered the shame of what he did for that whole year.
He is a "local boy". Local family. They heard the "boos"

Again, not knowing all the details - I am happy for Kavs and his family that he was able to redeem himself
after what appeared to be a horrible/ (insert whatever word you want) choice on his part.

He is young. I believe that this whole experience has set him on a path that will be much more productive than if he had dropped out of school and not suffered the shame of his indiscretion -
and overcome it. I don't think for a minute it was easy for him to step out on that court again.
But he did, and I give him credit for that.

The rest is history - he was fortunate to be a part of it.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer But for sure, no Kavs, no Elite 8.

Sorry UAC, but I have to strongly disagree here.

Nothing is for sure either way with this.

Without Kavs, maybe they make the Elite 8, or maybe they don't. We will never know. It is impossible to say either way.

Without Kavs, they likely would have brought in a freshman big man recruit to replace Kavs or a transfer big man(the transfer would have been eligible in 2013-2014 after sitting out the same year that Kavs sat out)or a graduate transfer big man. The replacement could have been better than Kavs, worse, or the same.

They might have gone to the Final 4 without Kavs, or maybe they don't even make the tournament without Kavs. Who knows?

FWIW, Kavs averaged 5 and 4 last year in 17 mpg.

Regardless, last year was great for all the coaches, players, and fans alike.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by rollo ...As for Kavs, he wasn't suspended from the basketball team...he was redshirted...

Redshirts practice everyday with the team and participate in the program except for dressing for the games. So he was not red shirted no matter who said he was.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 Redshirts practice everyday with the team and participate in the program except for dressing for the games. So he was not red shirted no matter who said he was.

I'm probably going to regret pointing out this technicality, but in the eyes of the NCAA, he was in fact a redshirt. Redshirts are allowed to practice. If they don't practice, it doesn't mean they're not a redshirt. A redshirt is anyone who burns the one year they're allowed to redshirt without transferring.

I get your point, and I don't want you to think I'm disagreeing with it. I'm just pointing out that technically he was a redshirt.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo Miami Hurricanes just dismissed 2 football players for sexual battery (incapacitated/no consent)...no trial...on July 8th...I saw this when it was announced and thought "it's a start." http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...tery/12361331/.

Not making any judgement on the Hurricane's current handling of the situation, but if "it's a start," consider that Miami looked the other way for more than a decade while all manners of legal, NCAA and certainly ethical violations were committed. I mean hotel rooms and a booster's yacht were stocked with prostitutes and strippers. Women got pregnant and abortions were paid for! So it's kind of hard to give them credit now.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Not making any judgement on the Hurricane's current handling of the situation, but if "it's a start," consider that Miami looked the other way for more than a decade while all manners of legal, NCAA and certainly ethical violations were committed. I mean hotel rooms and a booster's yacht were stocked with prostitutes and strippers. Women got pregnant and abortions were paid for! So it's kind of hard to give them credit now.

With all the dirt surrounding Miami (FL) for years and years, you wouldn't think there could be that much water near town ....

[GoFlyer]

What difference does it make? I find it offensive to discuss Kav's suspension in light of our elite eight performance. Kav made a mistake, he paid for it, he had the guts and the bravery to face the music and return to the court, and what we did or did not do during our run should not be a factor in evaluating the punishment that was meted out by the university.