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  #601  
Old 05-17-2023, 09:58 AM
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The grass isn't greener

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Tanner Holden is transferring back to Wright St. after a year at OSU. they are trying to get "immediate eligibility".
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...RPjElAhqo1cmE#
I hope this story gets national attention.
An example of the grass not being greener.
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  #602  
Old 05-17-2023, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
I hope this story gets national attention.
An example of the grass not being greener.
So do I but for other reasons. No way this kid should be eligible without sitting out a year from what we know. He gets one free transfer and unless there's a valid reason outside of basketball requiring a second transfer then he needs to sit a year.

Well, I don't think not playing in your last 8 games and being disgruntled should be valid enough to petition for immediate reinstatement. I guess they can try the Juan Epstein approach from Welcome Back Kotter and get a note from mom for every single thing that happens but, imo, there's something really wrong with the system if he gets immediate eligibility moving 50 miles to another school that's even further away from home.

Last edited by steve; 05-17-2023 at 11:27 AM..
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  #603  
Old 05-17-2023, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
So do I but for other reasons. No way this kid should be eligible without sitting out a year from what we know. He gets one free transfer and unless there's a valid reason outside of basketball requiring a second transfer then he needs to sit a year.

Well, I don't think not playing in your last 8 games and being disgruntled should be valid enough to petition for immediate reinstatement. I guess they can try the Juan Epstein approach from Welcome Back Kotter and get a note from mom for every single thing that happens but, imo, there's something really wrong with the system if he gets immediate eligibility moving 50 miles to another school that's even further away from home.
I thought the rule was that if he graduates, he is eligible as a grad transfer? I get your frustration though. I think part of this will dissipate after the ďfree Covid yearĒ goes away in a couple years
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  #604  
Old 05-17-2023, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I thought the rule was that if he graduates, he is eligible as a grad transfer? I get your frustration though. I think part of this will dissipate after the “free Covid year” goes away in a couple years
You may be right here but then again I'm not sure what/why he would need to apply for immediate eligibility with the NCAA if he's graduated unless he needs to be in a masters program of some sort? Lots of loop holes over the years that have played out on other issues that the NCAA has been pretty clueless on.

I do like the kid and I'm pretty ignorant on his issue and NCAA rules as it is.

Last edited by steve; 05-17-2023 at 12:05 PM..
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  #605  
Old 05-17-2023, 01:10 PM
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Did RJ Blakney end up anywhere yet? I may have missed it.
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  #606  
Old 05-17-2023, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Did RJ Blakney end up anywhere yet? I may have missed it.
Not yet, he has visited a few schools though
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  #607  
Old 05-17-2023, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Did RJ Blakney end up anywhere yet? I may have missed it.
If only there were some place, a network if you will, of ideas and information which was easily searchable for questions like this.

To be fair it was tough to find because most of the sites only list the top 150 or so. I saw that Towson St. fans are optimistic about landing him soon, but it appears he is still in the portal. Like our board, people won't disclose their sources but they seem to impressed with the fact that RJ can play both forward positions, (huh?). Talked about how he should have better stats at Towson because the competition is inferior to the A-10, (imagine that). Good luck RJ!
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  #608  
Old 05-17-2023, 03:39 PM
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Holden is a great example of "The Grass is not always Greener". He is a life long Ohio State fan and always wanted to play there. Never received an offer in high school. Singed with Wright State and played well.

He signed with OSU last year and was screwed. Days later, Buckeyes signed a player to play ahead of him. When a player tries to transfer up, the competition and cutthroat approach can be a real challenge.

Holden would have been a great pickup for UD, but he had his ties to Wright State.
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  #609  
Old 05-17-2023, 04:22 PM
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It was interesting that he was a "no contact" in the portal so Wright St had to wait until he contacted them. I wouldn't think many transfers would be "no contact". If he knew he wanted to return to WSU at least he didn't waste other coaches' time.
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  #610  
Old 05-17-2023, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Tanner Holden is transferring back to Wright St. after a year at OSU. they are trying to get "immediate eligibility".
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...RPjElAhqo1cmE#
Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
I hope this story gets national attention.
An example of the grass not being greener.
Had Holden graduated, he could have transferred anywhere without having to sit out a season. The only exception to a 4th year non-graduate to transfer and not sit is to go back to where he started (or request an NCAA exemption which would be unlikely).

So unfortunately, Holden didn't hit the books hard enough at WSU/tOSU to earn his degree in 4 years and have the freedom to even consider UD.
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  #611  
Old 05-17-2023, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Holden is a great example of "The Grass is not always Greener". He is a life long Ohio State fan and always wanted to play there. Never received an offer in high school. Singed with Wright State and played well.

He signed with OSU last year and was screwed. Days later, Buckeyes signed a player to play ahead of him. When a player tries to transfer up, the competition and cutthroat approach can be a real challenge.

Holden would have been a great pickup for UD, but he had his ties to Wright State.
How is this getting screwed? Seems like most think this is how it is supposed to work. Bring in as many quality guards as you can and let them fight it out, let the dust settle, rinse and repeat.
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  #612  
Old 05-17-2023, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
If only there were some place, a network if you will, of ideas and information which was easily searchable for questions like this.

To be fair it was tough to find because most of the sites only list the top 150 or so. I saw that Towson St. fans are optimistic about landing him soon, but it appears he is still in the portal. Like our board, people won't disclose their sources but they seem to impressed with the fact that RJ can play both forward positions, (huh?). Talked about how he should have better stats at Towson because the competition is inferior to the A-10, (imagine that). Good luck RJ!
I think RJ would have more success as a 4 in the Colonial than he had as a 2 in the A10, what with his weak handle.
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  #613  
Old 05-18-2023, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I think RJ would have more success as a 4 in the Colonial than he had as a 2 in the A10, what with his weak handle.
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You may well be correct, it just struck me as odd because I can't think of anything I have seen from RJ that would have led me to believe he was a candidate to play PF at any level, (he is 6'6" and not in the mold of Kendall Pollard), but they way it was stated was "he can play both forward positions" as if somebody had actually seen him play the 4.

For what it is worth, I always loved RJ's hustle and defense, I have said he was one of my favorites and I sorry to see him go, but his skill set and physical attributes are what they are and are known at this point.
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  #614  
Old 05-22-2023, 11:24 AM
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Seth Towns will enter rare air when he takes the court during the 2023-24 season later this fall.

Towns, a former Ivy League Player of the Year when he played at Harvard, transferred to Howard University and will be eligible for his eighth season of college hoops.
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Old 05-22-2023, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
Seth Towns will enter rare air when he takes the court during the 2023-24 season later this fall.

Towns, a former Ivy League Player of the Year when he played at Harvard, transferred to Howard University and will be eligible for his eighth season of college hoops.
Seven years of college down the toilet.
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  #616  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:00 PM
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Lots of people got to college for 9 years.
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  #617  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Lots of people got to college for 9 years.
...And we call them doctors. RIP Chris Farley.
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  #618  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
Seth Towns will enter rare air when he takes the court during the 2023-24 season later this fall.

Towns, a former Ivy League Player of the Year when he played at Harvard, transferred to Howard University and will be eligible for his eighth season of college hoops.
I saw Seth Towns play High School ball in a tournament in Myrtle Beach South Carolina. Boy, that seems like a long time ago. I guess it was but he is still playing in college? I thought he was injured and could not play anymore?
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Old 05-22-2023, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gem View Post
Seven years of college down the toilet.
ďOVERĒ?! Did you say ďOVERĒ?! NOTHING is over until WE DECIDE IT IS!!
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  #620  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:59 PM
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Tyler Burton, Richmond, just put his name in the portal today. Grad transfer.
Averaged 19 points and 7+Rebounds. What a late blow to Richmond. (He's also in the draft) Article says he is expected to stay in the draft and is listed as a "no Contact" in the portal.
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/5/25...chmond-spiders

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  #621  
Old 05-30-2023, 08:32 PM
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https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/...sketball/2023/

The story no one talks about in sports media. Only 41% of transfers have found a new home. I would think that itís getting late in the process.
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  #622  
Old 06-03-2023, 05:37 PM
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Any word on the forward that visited the last couple days ?
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Old 06-03-2023, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by soccergod View Post
Any word on the forward that visited the last couple days ?
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Nothing yet, hopefully we found out some news tomorrow
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Old 06-09-2023, 11:16 AM
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Rutgers Paul Mulcahy has now entered the portal. 6'6" point guard with one year of eligibility remaining.
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Old 06-09-2023, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
Rutgers Paul Mulcahy has now entered the portal. 6'6" point guard with one year of eligibility remaining.
I thought there was something about entering the portal by a certain date or else you'd have to sit a year.
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Old 06-09-2023, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I thought there was something about entering the portal by a certain date or else you'd have to sit a year.
He had his name in the NBA draft, withdrew it by May 31st and now has entered the portal.

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2023/06...er-portal.html

I honestly have no idea how all these "rules" regarding the portal work.
In another article I read that NIL money may have something to do with this. Rutgers may be in the Big 10 but NIL money there is not as good as at other places.

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Old 06-09-2023, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I thought there was something about entering the portal by a certain date or else you'd have to sit a year.
Grad transfers don't have to sit out and can enter the portal outside of the windows.
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Old 06-23-2023, 01:27 PM
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Tre Mitchell transferring to Kentucky from West Virginia. How many more will there be?
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Old 06-23-2023, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
Tre Mitchell transferring to Kentucky from West Virginia. How many more will there be?
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Has he ever had to sit for any of his transfers?

His odyssey and sad story can almost all be attributed to his relationship with the loser Tony Bergeron.
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Old 06-23-2023, 01:56 PM
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UMass to Texas to WVU to KY. Doesnít he have to sit at some point?
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Old 06-23-2023, 02:01 PM
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Does anyone know if UD has recruited any of these guys identified as best remaining in the portal?

https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/...best-available
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Old 06-23-2023, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
UMass to Texas to WVU to KY. Doesnít he have to sit at some point?
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Seems like his only sitting is on the plane rides.
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Old 06-23-2023, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Does anyone know if UD has recruited any of these guys identified as best remaining in the portal?

https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/...best-available
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The only one that I;m familiar with Cart'are Gordon, who came into SLU with accolades, but he did not produce
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Old 06-23-2023, 03:09 PM
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Kerr Kriisa leaving his mega NIL deal at WVU. It will now be a bidding war.
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Old 06-24-2023, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AZFlyer85 View Post
The only one that I;m familiar with Cart'are Gordon, who came into SLU with accolades, but he did not produce
The Mulcahy kid from Rutgers is a player; 6'6" pass first point guard.

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2023/06...er-portal.htm

He is looking for big time NIL money
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Old 06-24-2023, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
The Mulcahy kid from Rutgers is a player; 6'6" pass first point guard.

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2023/06...er-portal.htm

He is looking for big time NIL money
I know of him but skipped him because there is NO WAY that he transfers to UD
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Old 06-24-2023, 05:19 PM
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Gotta believe that the big transfer from Syracuse will enter the portal soon. WVU is going to have a painful Ď23-Ď24, but that can change in a year.
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Old 06-24-2023, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AZFlyer85 View Post
I know of him but skipped him because there is NO WAY that he transfers to UD
Agree!
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  #639  
Old 06-26-2023, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AZFlyer85 View Post
Kerr Kriisa leaving his mega NIL deal at WVU. It will now be a bidding war.
Apparently now back at WVU after removing his name from the portal.
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:00 AM
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Evidently he likes the assistant who has been named interim head coach at WVU.
https://twitter.com/KerrKriisa/statu...525645313?s=20

Another WVU player entered today. Mohamed Wague SO 6-9 195 C

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Old 06-26-2023, 07:07 PM
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Wague was lightly recruited out of Harkum Community College. The biggest schools that showed interest were WVU, BYU, and Wichita State. I wonder if AG kicks his tires. St Bonnie, UMass, and Fordham gave him a look. I donít know if they offered. Kinda interesting.

Found this article about Wague. I would love to see this guy become a Flyer! https://www.wvnews.com/bluegoldnews/wague-making-the-adjustment-from-soccer-to-basketball/article_4e032fca-b0a1-11ed-8d07-1f845c70d0a9.html
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  #642  
Old 06-26-2023, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Another WVU player entered today. Mohamed Wague SO 6-9 195 C

I love his beef!

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  #643  
Old 06-26-2023, 10:26 PM
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That would be a mighty good get if Petras goes the BYU
route.... hit the ground running and have a strong plan B...
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  #644  
Old 06-26-2023, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
That would be a mighty good get if Petras goes the BYU
route.... hit the ground running and have a strong plan B...
I feel like the longer it takes, the more it may not be either UD or BYU. Could be hoping and looking for a bigger/better situation.
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  #645  
Old 06-26-2023, 10:39 PM
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While I have the same concerns, he has said that he will announce by Saturday. I suspect that BYU and UD are trying to navigate the tricky NIL waters involving foreign players.
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  #646  
Old 06-28-2023, 07:26 PM
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Just read a new article in The Athletic that the Div 1 council has proposed a change to the portal window, reducing the portal timeframe from 60 to 30 days.

https://theathletic.com/4648935/2023...w-rules-dates/
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Old 06-28-2023, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Just read a new article in The Athletic that the Div 1 council has proposed a change to the portal window, reducing the portal timeframe from 60 to 30 days.

https://theathletic.com/4648935/2023...w-rules-dates/
That makes a lot of sense to me. It will certainly increase the risk of no-takers, and therefore, limit the craziness we see today.
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Old 06-28-2023, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
That makes a lot of sense to me. It will certainly increase the risk of no-takers, and therefore, limit the craziness we see today.
Iím not sure how this changes much other than to help schools know sooner who is leaving. It has done nothing to shorten the time a player can be in the portal. Am I missing something?
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Old 06-29-2023, 07:59 AM
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I think the primary purpose is to identify as early as possible what needs the coach has to fill. I think that is reasonable. Iím not sure that it will speed up the process much as teams will still wait to see who pulls out of the draft. That will have the biggest impact at the top, but that has a trickle down affect. So, wonít the end results be very similar?
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Old 09-11-2023, 05:48 PM
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https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/...sketball/2023/

Only 46% of players entering the transfer portal have found a new school. This would include Kaleb Washington whose college basketball days appear to be over. A lot of kids making poor decisions or getting bad advice. This continues to be the story ignored by sports media.
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  #651  
Old 09-11-2023, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/...sketball/2023/

Only 46% of players entering the transfer portal have found a new school. This would include Kaleb Washington whose college basketball days appear to be over. A lot of kids making poor decisions or getting bad advice. This continues to be the story ignored by sports media.
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The point is very well taken and lots of kids do get bad advice and make bad choices. In Kalebís case however, Iím not sure what the choice was. Stay at UD and sit or try and find somewhere he could play? For all we know, he was told he wasnít likely to play and UD was able to bring in someone they hope will contribute. I feel bad for Kaleb as I assume he wants to play but this is the new world. I am guessing most of that 46% are not kids who thought the grass is greener, rather they are kids looking to get playing time somewhere.
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  #652  
Old 09-11-2023, 08:45 PM
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Caleb had some skills, but didnít he have some drug problems that sunk him.
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:59 PM
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I read somewhere weeks ago that Kaleb was at Butler Community College in Kansas. Just checked the roster on their website, but it's not updated for 23-24.
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Old 09-11-2023, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
The point is very well taken and lots of kids do get bad advice and make bad choices. In Kalebís case however, Iím not sure what the choice was. Stay at UD and sit or try and find somewhere he could play? For all we know, he was told he wasnít likely to play and UD was able to bring in someone they hope will contribute. I feel bad for Kaleb as I assume he wants to play but this is the new world. I am guessing most of that 46% are not kids who thought the grass is greener, rather they are kids looking to get playing time somewhere.
Great point.

It's always painted as transfers are selfish and not committed to the team. In reality, it's probably middle of the roster and below guys willing to go anywhere to get real PT. I'd imagine a lot of these middle of the roster transfers are strongly encouraged to jump in the portal by the coaches, and what effectively happens is they've been cut. When nobody wants to take a chance on an unproven guy, their career can be over.

Point being, the transfer portal is being used by coaches to clear out the back ends of their rosters.
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  #655  
Old 09-12-2023, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Great point.

It's always painted as transfers are selfish and not committed to the team. In reality, it's probably middle of the roster and below guys willing to go anywhere to get real PT. I'd imagine a lot of these middle of the roster transfers are strongly encouraged to jump in the portal by the coaches, and what effectively happens is they've been cut. When nobody wants to take a chance on an unproven guy, their career can be over.

Point being, the transfer portal is being used by coaches to clear out the back ends of their rosters.
This is probably true of the majority of transfers but our history seems to indicate that there are quite a few "end of the roster" players who have Div I talent, so it's beneficial to many players and schools. I guess its just another part of the "weeding out" process that distinguishes which of the kids coming out of high school continue improving and which have topped out at a "less than Div I" level.
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Old 09-12-2023, 08:24 AM
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Itís also being used to fill the back end of rosters. There are a limited number of players who go to a better team and get more playing time.
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Old 09-12-2023, 12:21 PM
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I'm confused by the many posts here about coaches cleaning up their rosters by encouraging young men to transfer out. My thoughts were that if a coach offered a scholly to a young man, he wanted him to come to the school and pursue a degree while playing basketball. So, do all you experts know for a fact that our coaches tell a kid to leave because he isn't good enough? I'm hoping OUR school has more integrity than that.
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Old 09-12-2023, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by older than u View Post
I'm confused by the many posts here about coaches cleaning up their rosters by encouraging young men to transfer out. My thoughts were that if a coach offered a scholly to a young man, he wanted him to come to the school and pursue a degree while playing basketball. So, do all you experts know for a fact that our coaches tell a kid to leave because he isn't good enough? I'm hoping OUR school has more integrity than that.
I'm guessing that short of academic or disciplinary failings, it is probably more like letting them know they are welcome to stay but likely will get little to no playing time and then offering to help them every way possible should they choose to move on.

I'll bet this has been going on at UD for decades and long before the current free for all going on.
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Old 09-12-2023, 12:32 PM
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Sadly getting a degree is an antiquated notion. It's all about playing time and the possibility of making a buck playing BB somewhere after graduation. Do or die for the old U is dead. Hard to identify with the ever changing rosters. It is having a negative effect on my interest in the Flyers, and college BB in general, and I've been a fan since '51.
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Old 09-12-2023, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by older than u View Post
I'm confused by the many posts here about coaches cleaning up their rosters by encouraging young men to transfer out. My thoughts were that if a coach offered a scholly to a young man, he wanted him to come to the school and pursue a degree while playing basketball. So, do all you experts know for a fact that our coaches tell a kid to leave because he isn't good enough? I'm hoping OUR school has more integrity than that.
I have to believe that at the end of each season every coach of every sport sits down with his/her players and let the players know exactly how the coach perceives what the individual's future with the program is. For those who choose to leave, IMHO it is because the player has received news that the future isn't bright. It is a coach just being honest with his/her players.
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Old 09-12-2023, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by older than u View Post
I'm confused by the many posts here about coaches cleaning up their rosters by encouraging young men to transfer out. My thoughts were that if a coach offered a scholly to a young man, he wanted him to come to the school and pursue a degree while playing basketball. So, do all you experts know for a fact that our coaches tell a kid to leave because he isn't good enough? I'm hoping OUR school has more integrity than that.
I have no information that this happened in Kaleb's case or that it has ever happened at UD, which is why I (not an expert) said: "for all we know." Does anyone know for a fact that Kaleb thought or got advice that he would land on roster at a school better than UD? Of course not, but one of those scenarios seems more likely than the other.

As for your moral objection, Deion Sanders says hello. You don't have to like it but you are going to have to compete against it. If we feel like we are ethically above treating scholarships like the one year contracts they are, then we should just drop to D2 and quit pretending to have aspirations of being a major player and competing at the highest levels.
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Old 09-12-2023, 04:29 PM
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There are competitors, players, and headline seekers. Having 7-8 competitors on the team is much better than players, headline seekers. Recruiting individuals who compete and can cut the mustard in the classroom will win against the players and headline seekers. We wouldn't recruit them if they couldn't help us win. Their idea of their value to the team may be quite different from the coach's perspective when being recruited. If so, they shouldn't accept the scholly. And, we can compete at the highest levels, we just might not win every game every year like so many expect.
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Old 09-12-2023, 05:24 PM
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Kaleb Washington is at Butler Community College in El Dorado, Kansas.

Also, as has been stated prior, it's worse now while the extra Covid year is available. That's gone in 2 years, so the transfer portal will primarily return closer to the norm than where it is right now.
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Old 09-13-2023, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by older than u View Post
There are competitors, players, and headline seekers. Having 7-8 competitors on the team is much better than players, headline seekers. Recruiting individuals who compete and can cut the mustard in the classroom will win against the players and headline seekers. We wouldn't recruit them if they couldn't help us win. Their idea of their value to the team may be quite different from the coach's perspective when being recruited. If so, they shouldn't accept the scholly. And, we can compete at the highest levels, we just might not win every game every year like so many expect.
I don't disagree with any of this. Unfortunately, you and I remember the world the way it used to be and that is no longer reality. The question is do you stick your heels in the ground and refuse to change or do you adjust to the new rules, (i.e. "if you can't beat em, join em")?

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Old 09-14-2023, 02:38 PM
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The NCAA sucks forever and always, but I do give them credit for enforcing the two-time transfer rule (or not issuing a second waiver).

UNC football has gone apoplectic over Tez Walker not being granted a waiver to play this year. VCU and Joe Bamisile seem pretty peeved over him not being granted a waiver.

Gives me a little hope that once the COVID years phase out, we may see ever-so-slightly more stability in CBB (while giving players more latitude and opportunity).

I like the idea of giving players opportunities, but with the one free transfer and grad transfer, I'd argue this might be a good spot for all parties involved. On one hand, not at all surprised that everyone assumed the NCAA would fold on enforcing a second transfer restriction, but really surprised with all the outrage (though Bamisile seems like a tough one).
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Old 09-14-2023, 06:04 PM
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Scholarships are 1 year contracts. Both parties should be able to walk away without undue hardship. Itís fine if a school cuts a player loose and offers the scholarship to another player. The school isnít punished for it. The player, however, can be forced to sit out a year. Folks expect players to be committed for 4-5 (or 6) years, but the schools are only offering 1 year commitments to players. Iím not ok with these types of institutionalized iniquities.
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Old 09-14-2023, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Scholarships are 1 year contracts. Both parties should be able to walk away without undue hardship. Itís fine if a school cuts a player loose and offers the scholarship to another player. The school isnít punished for it. The player, however, can be forced to sit out a year. Folks expect players to be committed for 4-5 (or 6) years, but the schools are only offering 1 year commitments to players. Iím not ok with these types of institutionalized iniquities.
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Don't think that captures things accurately. Believe it was about five years ago when most conferences moved to four-year commitments on scholarships.

While I don't think four-year commitments are actually what takes place, I also don't think most places run guys out after one year. There's certainly frank conversations and pressure to produce, but I have a hard time believing many coaches recruit a freshman, then tell him there's no room at the inn after one season.

Personally, I like a little stability. I also don't think these players should be indentured servants. At present, you stay two years at a school, seek greener pastures, play two years, graduate and play a fifth year elsewhere. It also really incentivizes graduation (which is a farce but the piece of paper matters). There's also a growing number of professional leagues for those with no interest in the college system.
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Old 09-23-2023, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Caleb had some skills, but didnít he have some drug problems that sunk him.
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It was widely rumored (and possibly confirmed) that he and Baker both had ďrecreational issuesĒ.
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Old 09-24-2023, 01:08 PM
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Did Richard Amaefule ever resurface anywhere?
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Old 09-24-2023, 02:05 PM
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Richard is in London England. I saw an insta vdeo from July of him working out.(wearing a Dayton shirt), also one from August with the trainer talking about the build up of his training coming back from an injury.
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Old 09-25-2023, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
It was widely rumored (and possibly confirmed) that he and Baker both had ďrecreational issuesĒ.
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Lol, I feel like in this day and age, you could probably say that about any player, (or college kid for that matter). It is legal or decriminalized in like 40 states or something crazy like that and an NCAA panel recommended on Friday that it be removed from the banned substance list. When I was in college, a lot of the players frequently drank alcohol, (the horror).
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Old 09-25-2023, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Scholarships are 1 year contracts. Both parties should be able to walk away without undue hardship. It’s fine if a school cuts a player loose and offers the scholarship to another player. The school isn’t punished for it. The player, however, can be forced to sit out a year. Folks expect players to be committed for 4-5 (or 6) years, but the schools are only offering 1 year commitments to players. I’m not ok with these types of institutionalized iniquities.
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I also don't think your description captures the situation accurately.

Yes, it's somewhat unfair that colleges have (like every professional sports league in the world) decided that full free-agency is destabilizing and degrades the value of the product. But, could you describe the "hardship" here?

It amazes me that people have internalized a recreational activity (sports) into the core mission of the university.

OK, so you have to sit out a year on your way to:
1. Becoming a professional basketball player. Mmmkay. So go pro now.
2. Having your education paid for. Mmmkay. So sit out a year and get 5 years to graduate.

Nowadays you probably don't even miss out on NIL money.

The idea that the school doesn't get "punished" is something I also disagree with. If Colorado emptied their roster every single year I'm sure they would get punished by future recruits.
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Old 09-25-2023, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I also don't think your description captures the situation accurately.

Yes, it's somewhat unfair that colleges have (like every professional sports league in the world) decided that full free-agency is destabilizing and degrades the value of the product. But, could you describe the "hardship" here?

It amazes me that people have internalized a recreational activity (sports) into the core mission of the university.

OK, so you have to sit out a year on your way to:
1. Becoming a professional basketball player. Mmmkay. So go pro now.
2. Having your education paid for. Mmmkay. So sit out a year and get 5 years to graduate.

Nowadays you probably don't even miss out on NIL money.

The idea that the school doesn't get "punished" is something I also disagree with. If Colorado emptied their roster every single year I'm sure they would get punished by future recruits.
Itís a simple matter. Schools offer 1 year contracts. When the contract expires, both parties should be able to exercise their lawful contractual rights, whatever they might be.
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Old 09-25-2023, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
It’s a simple matter. Schools offer 1 year contracts. When the contract expires, both parties should be able to exercise their lawful contractual rights, whatever they might be.
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I'm not wildly in disagreement with you. It's just that you're focusing on the asymmetric nature of the contract in only 1 direction.

The school has an asymmetric advantage because they can walk away and leave the kid in limbo -- the kid is powerless. They also have an asymmetric disadvantage because millions of $'s ride on an arbitrary rule that limits them to 13 scholarships; a single wasted scholarship could cost millions, so one lazy drug-smoking (or smuggling) kid ties their hands for 3 years? That's a lot to ask, isn't it?

The kid has an asymmetric advantage because he can leave with minimal penalties; he just has to sit 1 WHOLE year or sit zero years by going pro -- the school is basically powerless. They have the asymmetric disadvantage in that injury leaves them in the same boat you and I were in (pay for college), and you must make your coach happy or he can derail your career -- but good luck stopping me from going pro.

You can't point out a single asymmetric advantage the school has without recognizing that the kid also has asymmetric advantages, and making a case that those do not balance out. So make the school keep their contract for 4 years, but make the kid do the same -- they can't play in any pro league for those 4 (5?) years. You obviously can't.

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Old 09-25-2023, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I'm not wildly in disagreement with you. It's just that you're focusing on the asymmetric nature of the contract in only 1 direction.

The school has an asymmetric advantage because they can walk away and leave the kid in limbo -- the kid is powerless. They also have an asymmetric disadvantage because millions of $'s ride on an arbitrary rule that limits them to 13 scholarships; a single wasted scholarship could cost millions, so one lazy drug-smoking (or smuggling) kid ties their hands for 3 years? That's a lot to ask, isn't it?

The kid has an asymmetric advantage because he can leave with minimal penalties; he just has to sit 1 WHOLE year or sit zero years by going pro -- the school is basically powerless. They have the asymmetric disadvantage in that injury leaves them in the same boat you and I were in (pay for college), and you must make your coach happy or he can derail your career -- but good luck stopping me from going pro.

You can't point out a single asymmetric advantage the school has without recognizing that the kid also has asymmetric advantages, and making a case that those do not balance out. So make the school keep their contract for 4 years, but make the kid do the same -- they can't play in any pro league for those 4 (5?) years. You obviously can't.
In any field, different people have different value and therefore leverage. That is why an approach that tries to treat or value everyone as if they are the same is folly. It is also why I like the one year contracts.

If Washington gets to UD and exceeds expectations and wants to turn pro after one year, does he have to buy the remaining three years of his contract out from UD, like a coach who leaves? Or if he was able and wanted to transfer to Kansas, should he not be able to do that? I know as a fan I would love to keep him at UD, but if he stays because he is a prisoner to a contract that is not likely to work out well for anyone.

Likewise, if he showed up and was an absolute bum (I don't think and am not saying he was a bum, just presenting the opposite end of the spectrum from exceeded his hype and being a one and done), should UD be bound four 4 years because they made an evaluation error or because a kids' priorities changed?

People hire people all the time that don't work out for one reasons or another, (realize the players aren't employees and not trying to open that can). Sometimes they work for you for a month and get a better offer. I have a partner who gets super upset whenever someone leaves. Over the years I have learned to look at it as "how can you fault someone for doing what they think is best for themselves or their families?" You just move on and try to replace them with someone better.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I'm not wildly in disagreement with you. It's just that you're focusing on the asymmetric nature of the contract in only 1 direction.

The school has an asymmetric advantage because they can walk away and leave the kid in limbo -- the kid is powerless. They also have an asymmetric disadvantage because millions of $'s ride on an arbitrary rule that limits them to 13 scholarships; a single wasted scholarship could cost millions, so one lazy drug-smoking (or smuggling) kid ties their hands for 3 years? That's a lot to ask, isn't it?

The kid has an asymmetric advantage because he can leave with minimal penalties; he just has to sit 1 WHOLE year or sit zero years by going pro -- the school is basically powerless. They have the asymmetric disadvantage in that injury leaves them in the same boat you and I were in (pay for college), and you must make your coach happy or he can derail your career -- but good luck stopping me from going pro.

You can't point out a single asymmetric advantage the school has without recognizing that the kid also has asymmetric advantages, and making a case that those do not balance out. So make the school keep their contract for 4 years, but make the kid do the same -- they can't play in any pro league for those 4 (5?) years. You obviously can't.
The schoolís hands arenít tied by a player who violates team rules. There would most certainly be enforceable escape clauses. If a player uses any banned substances, the school would certainly be able to send a kid packing. The NCAA provisions are maddening for me. I think others find the NCAA frustrating but, at the same time, they donít mind the rules being enforced against the players. It seems that many just consider iniquities in power to be a fact of life and just allow for it. I lack the fatalistic gene that just allows me to accept certain burdens in life. Here, I think athletics would be improved by 4 year scholarships. Of course, there would be provisions allowing for the scholarship to be extended due to injury, red shirt, other acceptable eligibility reasons. It would be interesting to include liquidated damages provisions if a player leaves early without cause.

Let me be clear that I also would like to see players stay at schools longer. I just tire of the idea that players commit to the school and should be loyal to the school. I think the schools should be loyal to the players too. Provide 4 year scholarships. Letís have both parties commit to a longer relationship.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
In any field, different people have different value and therefore leverage. That is why an approach that tries to treat or value everyone as if they are the same is folly. It is also why I like the one year contracts.

If Washington gets to UD and exceeds expectations and wants to turn pro after one year, does he have to buy the remaining three years of his contract out from UD, like a coach who leaves? Or if he was able and wanted to transfer to Kansas, should he not be able to do that? I know as a fan I would love to keep him at UD, but if he stays because he is a prisoner to a contract that is not likely to work out well for anyone.

Likewise, if he showed up and was an absolute bum (I don't think and am not saying he was a bum, just presenting the opposite end of the spectrum from exceeded his hype and being a one and done), should UD be bound four 4 years because they made an evaluation error or because a kids' priorities changed?

People hire people all the time that don't work out for one reasons or another, (realize the players aren't employees and not trying to open that can). Sometimes they work for you for a month and get a better offer. I have a partner who gets super upset whenever someone leaves. Over the years I have learned to look at it as "how can you fault someone for doing what they think is best for themselves or their families?" You just move on and try to replace them with someone better.
My response would be that they both should be able to move on without sanctions under this approach.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
My response would be that they both should be able to move on without sanctions under this approach.
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I don't think you and I disagree, I was just pointing out some of the pitfalls of the 4 year contract. What you brought up about damages if the kids leaves is very interesting as I think it demonstrates the big inequity here. If you are gonna even think about making a kid "buy out" his scholarship, what is the damage to the school? You were giving him a scholarship, now you aren't and he isn't showing up demanding to go to class. It would sort of force schools to admit the players' value in order to show they were damaged. I can just see it, "we give you a scholarship that is worth $60K per year, but we think you you are worth, $250K a year in value to the school." That would open some eyes.

I understand that it is a little bit different from a liquidated damages standpoint, but you would still be certifying that the liquidated damages is a reasonable approximation of the actual damage to the school. I also assume the door would have to swing the other way. Could you imagine if schools had to pay a sort of severance if a kid left because he was told there is no PT available? It would also make those situations much more public. Right now all you hear is that a kid transferred. Sort of puts it all on the player. That would change. There are people on this board who are not comfortable with the school sending a kid packing, I am willing to bet a lot of fans would feel that way.

For what it is worth, there are 4 year contracts, but they are rare outside P5 football. I have never heard of litigation surrounding one.

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Old 09-25-2023, 05:34 PM
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This discussion could change dramatically if the NLRB moves forward with treating athletes as employees and the USC case ends with athletes being treated as employees. If the athletes unionize, these issues will be collectively bargained. Of course, Title IX cannot be bargained, so it will still need to be satisfied.
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Old 09-25-2023, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
The schoolís hands arenít tied by a player who violates team rules. There would most certainly be enforceable escape clauses. If a player uses any banned substances, the school would certainly be able to send a kid packing. The NCAA provisions are maddening for me. I think others find the NCAA frustrating but, at the same time, they donít mind the rules being enforced against the players. It seems that many just consider iniquities in power to be a fact of life and just allow for it. I lack the fatalistic gene that just allows me to accept certain burdens in life. Here, I think athletics would be improved by 4 year scholarships. Of course, there would be provisions allowing for the scholarship to be extended due to injury, red shirt, other acceptable eligibility reasons. It would be interesting to include liquidated damages provisions if a player leaves early without cause.

Let me be clear that I also would like to see players stay at schools longer. I just tire of the idea that players commit to the school and should be loyal to the school. I think the schools should be loyal to the players too. Provide 4 year scholarships. Letís have both parties commit to a longer relationship.
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But you ignored my entire point to argue a technicality.

The contract isn't as asymmetrical as you make it out to be. It's actually somewhat symmetrical, so other changes would likely be needed if you pulled one Jenga block without addressing the whole structure.
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Old 09-25-2023, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
The schoolís hands arenít tied by a player who violates team rules. There would most certainly be enforceable escape clauses. If a player uses any banned substances, the school would certainly be able to send a kid packing. The NCAA provisions are maddening for me. I think others find the NCAA frustrating but, at the same time, they donít mind the rules being enforced against the players. It seems that many just consider iniquities in power to be a fact of life and just allow for it. I lack the fatalistic gene that just allows me to accept certain burdens in life. Here, I think athletics would be improved by 4 year scholarships. Of course, there would be provisions allowing for the scholarship to be extended due to injury, red shirt, other acceptable eligibility reasons. It would be interesting to include liquidated damages provisions if a player leaves early without cause.

Let me be clear that I also would like to see players stay at schools longer. I just tire of the idea that players commit to the school and should be loyal to the school. I think the schools should be loyal to the players too. Provide 4 year scholarships. Letís have both parties commit to a longer relationship.
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But you ignored my entire point to argue a technicality.

The contract isn't as asymmetrical as you make it out to be. It's actually somewhat symmetrical, so other changes would likely be needed if you pulled one Jenga block without addressing the whole structure.
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Old 09-25-2023, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
But you ignored my entire point to argue a technicality.

The contract isn't as asymmetrical as you make it out to be. It's actually somewhat symmetrical, so other changes would likely be needed if you pulled one Jenga block without addressing the whole structure.
Iím not trying to ignore your post. You make great points, and I donít want to diminish them. However, I am firmly convinced that the power rests in the hands of the schools. Far deeper pockets. Power entrenched by NCAA rules. By comparison, look at major league sports. Sure, there are some very wealthy players. Still, the owners hold the cards.
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Old 09-25-2023, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Iím not trying to ignore your post. You make great points, and I donít want to diminish them. However, I am firmly convinced that the power rests in the hands of the schools. Far deeper pockets. Power entrenched by NCAA rules. By comparison, look at major league sports. Sure, there are some very wealthy players. Still, the owners hold the cards.
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Fair enough.
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