LSU Game Thoughts

[Buckleyma]

LSU (Louisiana State University) is the 1st of 3 games at the Charleston Classic in Charleston, South Carolina. For those travelling to this venue, Charleston is a lovely small city with an interesting historic area. Shrimp & Grits is the standard fare.

On a little research, here is what I learned:

LSU is a SEC (Southeastern conference) team. LSU basketball is picked 13th in the SEC and 128 overall. They are picked to have no post season.

Matt McMahan is the head coach in his second season at LSU. There was a comment on their web site that Matt McMahan had to start from scratch to re-build a roster, two years ago. I guess, that gave him a pass for last year.

It looks like LSU is playing 10 guys searching for a starting lineup. It looks like the three best players are Jordan Wright, 6'6" GR, Will Baker, 7'0" 245 GR and Jalen Reed 6'10" SO. Another guy getting minutes is Mike Williams, 6'3" FR. But, like I mentioned, there are 10 guys getting 10 or so minutes in the first two games. There is more size on this team in Derek Fountain, 6'10" SR, Diamen Collins 6'9" but only 191 JR and Hunter Dean, 6'10" 250 TR from George Washington. Certainly, if they are platooning players, they will be fresh. There is also a 6'8" freshman. It seems like they got a lot of TALL guys on this team.

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

[CraSch]

LSU is 1-1. They beat Mississippi Valley State (Jerry Rice U) 106-60 as they shot lights out, shooting over 53% from both the 3 and the field.
They then lost to Nicholls St 68-66. They apparently were still waking up from too much shrimp and grits as they were down 44-25 at the half before a furious comeback gave them a late lead, only to be beat by a last second 3. In this game they couldn't shoot straight, as they were 39.3% from the field and 3-19, a whopping 15.8%, from 3.

So who is LSU? Too early to tell. Appears they are still working it out

[Chris R]

I'll take a 1pt win. We have too many holes to be too confident.

[zmz723]

Basically a must win for at large chances.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by zmz723 Basically a must win for at large chances. Posted via Mobile Device

There needs to be a great sense of urgency with this game. I am just not seeing a lot of q1/q2 opportunities left already. We will see what SMU, UNLV, and UC do, but we have to cash in on these games against tougher opponents, these are the type of games that move the needle/get you in the conversation. Most of the A10 sucks these days. Neil is doing his part with scheduling, you have to win your fair share of the tougher games. NW was a missed good opportunity.

[Alberto Strasse]

does not score enough points to beat higher ranked teams.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by Chris R I'll take a 1pt win. We have too many holes to be too confident.

Come on folk.. how can you let a negative comment like this dispel the hype? Shout him down. Two games is not enough. Don’t allow your eyes to deceive you. We can still imagine the talent.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyers98]

LSU, despite being a name everyone recognizes is not a good team. While I, like Chris, won't be betting the ranch on this game, if we can't beat this LSU team then we are not an at large contender. Losing this game would hurt bad. Winning does not move any needle other than the, "you didn't lose to a bad team" needle.

Never understood why people assume quality because of conference or name, I mean Louisville may be one of the worst teams in the country this year, (even though they have a storied past and are in the ACC). The SEC isn't a powerhouse conference in basketball to begin with, LSU is at the bottom of the league. The selection committee actually watches basketball so it isn't as if they are going to be like "ooh, they beat LSU, they were good in football this year."

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Come on folk.. how can you let a negative comment like this dispel the hype? Shout him down. Two games is not enough. Don’t allow your eyes to deceive you. We can still imagine the talent. Posted via Mobile Device

Every time I read the "let the hype begin" thread, I asked myself, "what hype?" I don't really think there is any hype over UD this year. Sure we were picked to win the A10, but they had to pick someone. This is s team with one great player. Unfortunately that player plays a position where others need to get him the ball in the right spots. As a fan I have certain expectations for the season, but I certainly don't think there is any Koolaid being served at this point.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Every time I read the "let the hype begin" thread, I asked myself, "what hype?" I don't really think there is any hype over UD this year. Sure we were picked to win the A10, but they had to pick someone. This is s team with one great player. Unfortunately that player plays a position where others need to get him the ball in the right spots. As a fan I have certain expectations for the season, but I certainly don't think there is any Koolaid being served at this point.

Perhaps there wasn't much hype in the press, although I believe Dayton is picked to win the conference. However, if you look at the results of the poll predicting preseason win totals.....an overwhelming response of those who voted for greater than 22 wins.....54 of 61. Of those 54, 26 predicted over 24 wins.

What would be meaningful, would be to know how many unique posters visited the Basketball feed on a typical in season day.

Clearly those that voted were "hyped".

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Jeff Perhaps there wasn't much hype in the press, although I believe Dayton is picked to win the conference. However, if you look at the results of the poll predicting preseason win totals.....an overwhelming response of those who voted for greater than 22 wins.....54 of 61. Of those 54, 26 predicted over 24 wins. What would be meaningful, would be to know how many unique posters visited the Basketball feed on a typical in season day. Clearly those that voted were "hyped".

I will respectfully suggest that the fans of the team being bullish in the preseason is not “hype” rather it is fandom. As we well know 22 wins in the A10 is a recipe for an NIT bid. If 26 national reporters predicted an NCAA birth, I would consider that hype.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I will respectfully suggest that the fans of the team being bullish in the preseason is not “hype” rather it is fandom. As we well know 22 wins in the A10 is a recipe for an NIT bid. If 26 national reporters predicted an NCAA birth, I would consider that hype.

Fair enough!

[Beatty Town Coach]

Need the minutes of Isaac Jack to increase. Especially in a game with the likes of the LSU size. Holmes getting double, triple, and quadruple coverage, and thus needs another BIG in the game with him for backside screening, and to have someone to throw it up to, and/or get the loose change for rebounds. UD let a team of 6-6 Northwestern players dominate around the basket and in the lane...not good. Other than Holmes, Flyers couldn't get much of anything in the paint.

[jack72]

I am excited about going to Charleston to see a much better Flyer team. Last time was 2017, when Crutcher was a struggling frosh, Mikesell was hurt and X Williams was throwing up wild threes. We lost to a Hofstra and Old Dominion and beat Ohio U. It was brutal. Yes, the glass is half full.

Love the city. Everything great about it. If you love food, this is the town. Going to Hank's Seafood for the first time.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Need the minutes of Isaac Jack to increase. Especially in a game with the likes of the LSU size. Holmes getting double, triple, and quadruple coverage, and thus needs another BIG in the game with him for backside screening, and to have someone to throw it up to, and/or get the loose change for rebounds. UD let a team of 6-6 Northwestern players dominate around the basket and in the lane...not good. Other than Holmes, Flyers couldn't get much of anything in the paint.

Agree!!! But Jack's really going to have to show better. AG has demonstrated that if the non starters struggle, the starters will be in there 35 mins.

[The Gem]

This is one of those games they can't afford to lose if they want an at large bid. Winning may not help much, but it's always nice to knock of an SEC squad. St. Johns or N Texas will be games that if we can win will help a lot. UD needs to go at least 2-1 this weekend.

[jack72]

Upset special: I think N TX will beat St Johns

[FIFO28]

Wheres everyone meeting(partying) before game in Charleston

[DGO67]

Originally Posted by jack72 Upset special: I think N TX will beat St Johns

Dream on...Johnnies by 10 or more!

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Need the minutes of Isaac Jack to increase. Especially in a game with the likes of the LSU size. Holmes getting double, triple, and quadruple coverage, and thus needs another BIG in the game with him for backside screening, and to have someone to throw it up to, and/or get the loose change for rebounds. UD let a team of 6-6 Northwestern players dominate around the basket and in the lane...not good. Other than Holmes, Flyers couldn't get much of anything in the paint.

And Holmes had at most 3 baskets in the paint.

Somebody else needs to figure out how to penetrate and score successfully. Somebody is going to have to step up or this season will be another in a long line of disappointing ones.
Posted via Mobile Device

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by jack72 Upset special: I think N TX will beat St Johns

Line is SJ -5.5
Posted via Mobile Device

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Need the minutes of Isaac Jack to increase. Especially in a game with the likes of the LSU size. Holmes getting double, triple, and quadruple coverage, and thus needs another BIG in the game with him for backside screening, and to have someone to throw it up to, and/or get the loose change for rebounds. UD let a team of 6-6 Northwestern players dominate around the basket and in the lane...not good. Other than Holmes, Flyers couldn't get much of anything in the paint.

Agreed on needing the minutes for Jack to increase, or we’ll see a repeat of the 2009 NCAA Tournament game where we gift-wrapped a record number of blocked shots by Kansas’s man-mountain by going straight at him time after time, thinking that a 6’8” forward (CW) would be able to score over a 7’0” guy with marginal hops and a 75-foot wingspan (or so it seemed, at the time).
Posted via Mobile Device

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by ud2 There needs to be a great sense of urgency with this game. I am just not seeing a lot of q1/q2 opportunities left already. We will see what SMU, UNLV, and UC do, but we have to cash in on these games against tougher opponents, these are the type of games that move the needle/get you in the conversation. Most of the A10 sucks these days. Neil is doing his part with scheduling, you have to win your fair share of the tougher games. NW was a missed good opportunity.

The A-10 is 31-9 and sitting 8th at barttorvik:
https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?year=2024&conyes=1#

Behind MWC and ahead of AAC, MVC, and WCC. This is more like where we used to be ranked. No telling whether we can keep it up, but if so we might have some q1/q2 chances in-conference.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow The A-10 is 31-9 and sitting 8th at barttorvik: https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?year=2024&conyes=1# Behind MWC and ahead of AAC, MVC, and WCC. This is more like where we used to be ranked. No telling whether we can keep it up, but if so we might have some q1/q2 chances in-conference.

That’s encouraging, but we need to do our part, and Step 1 starts in 2 hours.
Posted via Mobile Device

[steve]

Originally Posted by Jeff Agree!!! But Jack's really going to have to show better. AG has demonstrated that if the non starters struggle, the starters will be in there 35 mins.

Show better? Other than the 3 immediate hoops he made in game 1 and the 2 minutes in game 2? What exactly are you wanting him to show better?

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by steve Show better? Other than the 3 immediate hoops he made in game 1 and the 2 minutes in game 2? What exactly are you wanting him to show better?

4 immediate hoops.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by steve Show better? Other than the 3 immediate hoops he made in game 1 and the 2 minutes in game 2? What exactly are you wanting him to show better?

Game 1 was SIUE......SIUE, an inferior opponent. Game 2 is exactly what I'm referring to. He was slow on D (just like game 1). We all know AG is. D first guy. No complaints there.

His role should be spelling Holmes II +/- 5 minutes in each half. If he can play stout D and grab few boards, then any offense is bonus, regardless of the opponent.

His playing minutes against NW were not due to his offensive contributions, but his current defensive level.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by jack72 If you love food, this is the town. Going to Hank's Seafood for the first time.

Regardless of anything else that happens during your trip, Hank’s will be worth the trip. Make sure to order the She Crab soup. I would also highly recommend Magnolias. You cannot go wrong with either. Enjoy!

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by N2663R Regardless of anything else that happens during your trip, Hank’s will be worth the trip. Make sure to order the She Crab soup. I would also highly recommend Magnolias. You cannot go wrong with either. Enjoy!

Try High Cotton. Terrific restaurant.
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[big jordan]

Team has a lot to figure out. Too many defensive lapses, and have to be quicker with passing and moving the ball. Holmes and Elvis especially. Not sure how many more Elvis pump fakes my brain can process before synapses stop firing

Really interesting to watch a Dayton team that bombs away from 3. We’re used to playing more inside out. But too many late shot clock bailouts. That last play was hilarious, 2 guys were in same spot and still Santos was open

Cheeks/Santos/Holmes should be the best frontcourt in A10
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Jeff Game 1 was SIUE......SIUE, an inferior opponent. Game 2 is exactly what I'm referring to. He was slow on D (just like game 1). We all know AG is. D first guy. No complaints there. His role should be spelling Holmes II +/- 5 minutes in each half. If he can play stout D and grab few boards, then any offense is bonus, regardless of the opponent. His playing minutes against NW were not due to his offensive contributions, but his current defensive level.

The final 3 minutes of the first half against LSU is what this team needs from Jack.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Line is SJ -5.5 Posted via Mobile Device

So what'

[ud2]

Iinm, Dayton is now 3-0 all time vs. LSU.

1984 ncaat first round...74-66

86-73 in Honolulu as part of the United Airlines Tip-Off Tournament on November 26, 1995

70-67...2023 game

[CoffeeCan]

Great win.
Tons of heart.
Santos channeling Sibert.
If we think we are going to win games taking 34 three pointers...
Lot's of work to do
Elvis is trying hard but just not a good player.

That is all

[Fudd]

This is the kind of game that gives a team some seasoning that creates poise in future tight games. It is a confidence builder when you are able to pull one out of the fire. It's important to have a game like this early in the season where the team overcomes extreme adversity.

Javon Bennett. I can't stop thinking about his floor leadership. I could stand him taking less quick 3pt shots though. I want him to work the offense first. He handles the ball like it is glued to him. He distributes. He is a pest on defense. We need him to hold up for the whole season because there is not a good option to do all of the same things for us at pg.

[NJFlyr71]

If this team identity (and so far with 3 games played that appears to be their go to) is bombing away 3 pointers all game long ... it is gonna be a loooooong season.

Against very significantly talented teams (i.e. Huston comes to mind) we could be faced with a repeat (excluding the comeback portion) to be down by a bunch with no last minute heroics.

Losing by 15-20 isn't the way to gain traction.

P.S. playing great D works but ya gotta play that way during a larger portion of a 40 minute game time rather than the last 8 minutes

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

LSU write up

https://www.lsureveille.com/sports/l...0291f439a.html

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I hope that AG uses the chaos defensive approach more regularly. We can go 9 deep with Zimi. It goes to 10 with Marvel. I think we could get more production from our 7-10 guys by playing full court, in your face, and swarming D.
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[Gazoo]

I've watched enough _avier games to know they would have beat LSU and Northwestern by 50 apiece.

Why?

Because if we were _avier, that over-play high defense would be utterly destroyed. It would be Holmes flash to the high post, high-low to Santos, bucket. Next play clear the post, Holmes flashes to the high post, Cheeks backdoor cut, bucket.

They look at the visitor bench, give them a shrug, and say "I can do this all day." It's their favorite play to run and they do it well. I can't explain why after all the coaching changes, it's embedded in their DNA.

In 3 games we have not executed a single backdoor or high-low action while the defense is pushing us out to 35 feet from the basket and we're doing handoffs with our all-A10 player like that's an offense.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Radar]

I rarely pay attention to the ESPN tv analysts during games (listen to Larry/Keith), but Perry Clark made an interesting point about Deuce, saying he doesn't play mean. I tend to agree. Deuce isn't Obi, but Obi was no Zion either, yet when Obi attacked the rim you were either going to get posterized or get out of the way.

[steverino015]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 If this team identity (and so far with 3 games played that appears to be their go to) is bombing away 3 pointers all game long ... it is gonna be a loooooong season. Against very significantly talented teams (i.e. Huston comes to mind) we could be faced with a repeat (excluding the comeback portion) to be down by a bunch with no last minute heroics. Losing by 15-20 isn't the way to gain traction. P.S. playing great D works but ya gotta play that way during a larger portion of a 40 minute game time rather than the last 8 minutes

not so fast my friend,
we may of learned something from the press and push defense...
we need to see how we play today, if CAG uses the chaos defense
more against St Johns.....

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Radar I rarely pay attention to the ESPN tv analysts during games (listen to Larry/Keith), but Perry Clark made an interesting point about Deuce, saying he doesn't play mean. I tend to agree. Deuce isn't Obi, but Obi was no Zion either, yet when Obi attacked the rim you were either going to get posterized or get out of the way.

I think that has alot to do with a guy's personality. I have noticed the same thing about Holmes and I just don't think he is mean, (which is not the same thing as being tough). It isn't necessarily a negative. Kevin Durant is weak as a kitten and doesn't mix it up inside. Perhaps that is also why Holmes looks like he is trying work on his perimeter game. I am guessing he was undoubtedly told by the NBA guys that he either needs to put on 30 pounds of muscle or become a respectable perimeter shooter.

I know that a lot of people think that his perimeter "focus" this year is not the best thing for UD, but I think you have to also consider whether he would still be at UD if AG had said, "no, your butt will be in the lane, you aren't shooting threes."

[Medford]

My thought is if you are willing to attack aggressively on the pick and roll, the pick and pop will open up more often. Seemed like for the first 20 minutes yesterday he was only doing the pick and pop, not even trying to roll to the bucket. Did more in the 2nd half portions that I watched. If the opposing teams believes you are not going to attack off the roll, then it becomes much easier to defend.


At any rate, the offense was very hard to watch for the first 20+ min of the game. Too much dribbling, too little attacking inside, too many long (way long) 3 point bombs with plenty of time to work for a better shot. With a bunch of new faces working together for the first time, hopefully it improves. If not, hello NIT (at best)

[SLUFLYER]

Lots of comments, complaints and concerns about the number of 3-pointers we're shooting. Personally, I'd like to see more shots around the rim, with Holmes dunking the basketball. But credit LSU for taking away Holmes yesterday. They seemingly had a shadow on him all day. And the big dude did a decent job on him when he had to defend him straight up. TBH, Holmes stunk yesterday. One of the worst games I've seen him play. BUT, he does pass the ball well out of the double teams and shadow defender. And typically, he can find a wide open shooter on the arc. And if we're going to keep shooting those at a 35%+ rate, they're not terrible shots. Add in that we grabbed 14 offensive rebounds against LSU, and I'm even more comfortable if we're taking these triples in the flow of the offense and the offensive strategy (no matter what little flow we seem to have and a strategy that I'm not sure I know what it is). The last two games, both against P5 teams, we're at 40% from the behind the arc. We'll take that all day long. That's essentially 60FG% on 2-pointers.

We're struggling to have anybody breakdown their defender off the dribble. It appears Cheeks has the physical skills to do so, but his handle lacks tremendously. Often out of control and seemingly losing his feet often (slipping, falling down).

We took better care of the basketball in the 2nd half yesterday and created more turnovers ourselves. I think that will need to continue to help us generate some easier baskets.

But if we have 4 three point shooters on the floor surrounding Holmes, who can also shoot them if left open, I think the three ball is going to be part of our identity. If Santos, Brea Bennett and Cheeks are taking the majority of our 3-pointers with their feet set, I'm probably OK with it, as long as we're not passing up Holmes in the paint with a significant mismatch. Elvis is ice cold to start the year. I don't expect that to last. He'll revert to his mean averages. He shot 33% last year (while dealing with injuries) from behind the arc, and 36% and 42% the previous two years.

Keep in mind the offense we had in 2020 surrounding Obi. No, Holmes isn't Obi and he can't do all of the things Obi could do. But you have to at least respect Holmes on the perimeter, which stretches the defense. The 2020 team lead the nation in effective FG%, and it wasn't close with Gonzaga 2nd, by taking like 95% of their shots either behind the arc or within 5 feet of the rim. We were either shooting threes or dunking the basketball. The makeup of this team could conceivably mirror some of that.

[superfan99]

Did anyone else notice that our comeback started about the same time that LSU decided to take their foot off the gas and slow it down? At just about the 9 minute mark in the 2nd half LSU passed up a decent shot early in the shot clock and from that point on they seemed to be trying to use more shot clock. I noticed, because I hate when UD does this when they have a lead. I tend to think coaches go slow down conservative way too early in games and it takes away all the momentum and aggressiveness that got you the lead in the first place. Plus at the same time, the team that is losing, usually ramps up their intensity and desperation.

[frisco flyer]

We should take inside-out threes all day long if available. We have good shooters who can make enough of them to hurt the defense and open up the middle. Yesterday, some of the threes we took were not good shots, especially a couple that Bennett took early in the shot clock when he was a few feet behind the line. Those kinds of shots backfire more often than not.

[Gazoo]

[QUOTE=SLUFLYER;746887BUT, he does pass the ball well out of the double teams and shadow defender[/QUOTE]

Not to burst your bubble, but no, he doesn't. He has 11 TO in 3 games and unless our shooters are asking for cross court passes at the shoelaces, his aim has been gawd awful.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Not to burst your bubble, but no, he doesn't. He has 11 TO in 3 games and unless our shooters are asking for cross court passes at the shoelaces, his aim has been gawd awful.

I know your rep on the board. You're never wrong. But he averages over 3 assists/game and I sat courtside for the Northwestern game and I saw what I saw. Are his passes in a perfect spot, hitting the shooter in the "shooting pocket"? Not exactly. But he's unselfish and let's the game come to him. He does a decent job of reading the defense and looking for the open shooter.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER He does a decent job of reading the defense and looking for the open shooter.

Well that part I agree with. It's just that he's been a very bad passer out of those doubles. So the intent is there, just not the execution.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER BUT, he does pass the ball well out of the double teams and shadow defender.

Go to the 14:00 mark of the second half. He threw a cross court pass out of the double team that was so bad it hit the defender in the stomach. That pass should have been 5' higher off the ground than that. That's not the equivalent of an airball on a free throw, it's the equivalent of shooting a free throw and having it airmail over the backboard without touching anything.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Go to the 14:00 mark of the second half. He threw a cross court pass out of the double team that was so bad it hit the defender in the stomach. That pass should have been 5' higher off the ground than that. That's not the equivalent of an airball on a free throw, it's the equivalent of shooting a free throw and having it airmail over the backboard without touching anything.

C'mon he made a mistake. Santos had three turnovers, the same as Holmes.
Cheeks had three in the first five minutes of the game. I agree Holmes passes well and is playing better than last year. Don't judge him on a few mistakes against three very good teams.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by jack72 C'mon he made a mistake. Santos had three turnovers, the same as Holmes. Cheeks had three in the first five minutes of the game. I agree Holmes passes well and is playing better than last year. Don't judge him on a few mistakes against three very good teams.

Once is a mistake. This is the pattern. You know who's leading us in TO's? Holmes, with 17. The next person has 9.

Nine.



Elvis + Petras + Brea + Jack + Cheeks have 21 in 501 minutes. Holmes has 17 in 154 minutes.


He didn't dribble them all off his foot. He does dribble many off his foot while trying to get out of the double team, which he's not good at, which is the topic at hand. And an equal number he gets from throwing to the other team when trying to get out of the double.

[SeasonTicketFan]

If the other players would hit some shots, it would really take some pressure off Holmes with respect to the constant double teaming.

Sometimes, this feels like a quarterback dealing with a blitz on every single play. Yes, there will be turnovers, but there will also be times the defense is burned too. Deuce did that a few times as well.

[udflyer88]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I think that has alot to do with a guy's personality. I have noticed the same thing about Holmes and I just don't think he is mean, (which is not the same thing as being tough). It isn't necessarily a negative. Kevin Durant is weak as a kitten and doesn't mix it up inside. Perhaps that is also why Holmes looks like he is trying work on his perimeter game. I am guessing he was undoubtedly told by the NBA guys that he either needs to put on 30 pounds of muscle or become a respectable perimeter shooter. I know that a lot of people think that his perimeter "focus" this year is not the best thing for UD, but I think you have to also consider whether he would still be at UD if AG had said, "no, your butt will be in the lane, you aren't shooting threes."

Holmes simply doesnt run gracefully and he cant dribble w out looking at the ball which by now is horrid imo. i dont see the desire to play hard all the time either. last yr to this yr i dont see any strength gained or bulk put on. He is destined for europe or possibly an NBA reserve 4 man but i doubt it.
Someone told me drew timme was cut by possibly the bucks recently everyone thought he was all world in college but is just too slow and i think same for holmes.

[udflyer88]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Not to burst your bubble, but no, he doesn't. He has 11 TO in 3 games and unless our shooters are asking for cross court passes at the shoelaces, his aim has been gawd awful.

thank for pointing that out. he doesnt run he just 'lumbers' down the court

santos has much more athletic ability and can go the hoop stronger than holmes from what i've seen. Holmes needs to get the ball close to the rim and not have to dribble too much. The team will learn when to not throw him the ball. However i do like holmes giving out PT a break now and then bringing ball up the court.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Go to the 14:00 mark of the second half. He threw a cross court pass out of the double team that was so bad it hit the defender in the stomach. That pass should have been 5' higher off the ground than that. That's not the equivalent of an airball on a free throw, it's the equivalent of shooting a free throw and having it airmail over the backboard without touching anything.

Tonight out of the double team we saw a cross court pass to the feet of the defender at the foul line (seriously), a cross-court-overhead-skip-pass-bounce-pass (a new invention) that actually worked, and also, a very nice pass for an open shot. His best decisions have typically been to dribble out of the double.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Gazoo,
I thought you would say it would go below the basket...since the pass was so low.

[SLUFLYER]

I recall a couple of horrendous passes from Holmes out of the double team last night, as well as several that were good that got wide open three pointers.

Last night, I thought he was in general just terrible handling the double teams. He was literally running away from them and away from the basket. TBH, when someone wants to double us in the half court, we should make them pay for that sh!t. We did not.

Further, I think Holmes' handle is not very good in the half court and that has contributed to a bunch of his TO's as well.

Unrelated, since someone mentioned Santos above re: his TO's last night, but I thought Santos was a real stinker last night. Lots of forced and terrible shot selection. Didn't let the game come to him.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER I recall a couple of horrendous passes from Holmes out of the double team last night, as well as several that were good that got wide open three pointers. Last night, I thought he was in general just terrible handling the double teams. He was literally running away from them and away from the basket. TBH, when someone wants to double us in the half court, we should make them pay for that sh!t. We did not. Further, I think Holmes' handle is not very good in the half court and that has contributed to a bunch of his TO's as well. Unrelated, since someone mentioned Santos above re: his TO's last night, but I thought Santos was a real stinker last night. Lots of forced and terrible shot selection. Didn't let the game come to him.

I think Holmes' only option when the double comes is to dribble away from the basket because of his lack of strength. Watch other, stronger big men, that get doubled and they are able to stand their ground solidly while holding the ball strongly, which gives the other players additional time to get to the open spot and makes the defense decide whether to stay in the double or vacate. Holmes just does not have that kind of strength. I personally think he is better when he rolls to the basket or flashes to the box off of a rub screen or a shuffle cut. Those type of plays make it much harder for the defense to double and gives Holmes the chance to get the ball to the hoop much quicker.