Tournament summary

[Gazoo]

These tournaments are not just about getting P5 scalps, they're about actually getting better as a team (believe it or not).

That goal was accomplished. Key observations:

Holmes gets the attention, Santos is the playa. W-O-W did Pitt let one get away. Can someone find the offseason comments by maddog about him being a mediocre player, I feel like there had to be some of that.

We've taken a bit of a downgrade in our PG with Bennett. Him + Mali would have really been something special I think. BUT, Bennett has the heart of a lion.

Jack is more than a space filler. In the last 2 games there were extended stretches where I thought "do we HAVE to bring Holmes back off the bench??" We played better with Jack at times. (Note: of course I'm not suggesting we bench Holmes.)

Elvis still cannot shoot. But he should sub out first and run the point when he subs back in. Just go create something with the second team.

Brea can shoot. And shoot he will. Fire away my man.

As I said before the season started, I just hope Petras doesn't transfer because in a year or 2 we'll be really glad he's here. For now it's spot duty.

And the best for last: Zimi. There's a real spot for a guy that just wants to hustle, play under control, and play defense. It might only be 10-12 minutes, but WE NEED YOU ZIMI. Did you expect to say that before the start of the season?

[springborofan]

Fair assessment. Just a couple of additional thoughts:

I agree about Jack. I think he is going to just continue to get better. He’s still early in his bball career so improvement can be significant.

Also, I wish we had seen Marvel Allen in this tournament. In particular, I would like to have seen how he would have played against the Houston guards. At 6’4” 200 he’s bigger than both Elvis and Bennett and might not have been pushed around as much. Not suggesting it would have altered the game’s trajectory but I’m really hopeful he can add a level of toughness just by size.

[steverino015]

all comments spot on: Santos now had 3 straight games as voted our
player of the game... He is light out good!

I can't wait for Marvel Allen to come back and get him in the mix...
good job Zimi!

next up: Youngstown St
SMU
Grambling

[Jeff]

Nice job on the summary. The tournament also provides a "to do list" of necessary improvements. Just some thoughts on what the numbers say. (Subject to any Figgee corrections).

Opponents take on average 5 more shots / game. However, against NW & Houston, that difference was 14.5. Diving in on the better opponents exposes the gaps. Not surprisingly, in both of those games they were out rebounded on the offensive glass by 8.5.

Included on the shots above, the flyers have taken 35 more 3's than the competition, while making a lower percentage. (33.9% vs. 40%) Less Bennett & Elvis, more Santos & Brea from long distance.

The good news is that the Flyers are getting to the line and hitting FT's. +5 more / game. Holmes improvement over the past two years has been impressive.

Rebounding, in general needs work. Remember Holmes as a freshman? He was a "swat machine". Seems that part of his game has diminished, perhaps in an effort to keep him on his feet and out of potential foul trouble.

Holmes is going to get his points down low. Santos has been a pleasant surprise and can take it to the hoop or hit a three. More of him is better for this team.

Who emerges after those two? Brea, who helps on the defensive boards, can excel in certain offensive plays, and they should be maximized.

Cheeks....Cheeks is a guy that could make a difference. Not sure if it learning the system, feeling comfortable in it, or just finding his place. Seems to go through stretches of just being a non factor. Cheeks is the one player that looks to be able to significantly improve as the year moves on. I hope I'm right. Shots that Bennett & Elvis are taking need to go to Cheeks, he's shooting 20% points higher than Elvis/Bennett, while taking 25% less shots per game than both of them. Plainly, combined, they are 15.6 shots / game while Cheeks is taking 6, meanwhile Cheeks hits 20% more of his shots. Move 6 shots a game to Cheeks, scoring would increase, and force teams to defend more than Holmes & Santos.

Ditto Jack. Face it, he's not going to get huge minutes, but he's demonstrating his offensive value. In the A-10, he's going to be a huge asset.

The point. Bennett & Elvis need to understand their roles...take care of the ball, solid entry passes, play some D, and get the offensive flow moving.....no endless dribbling and crazy threes. The team cannot be successful if they continue to be #2 (41) & #3 (37) in shots taken (to Homes 52) while sporting the two lowest shooting %'s on the team. A portion of their collective shots need to move to Santos & Cheeks.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Jeff Remember Holmes as a freshman? He was a "swat machine". Seems that part of his game has diminished, perhaps in an effort to keep him on his feet and out of potential foul trouble.

Shot blockers' stats usually peak early. I think that's because when a shot blocker first shows up on the scene, other players don't realize how big of a threat they are so a lot of blocks surprise the opponent. Once you have a reputation and people have played against you, players are more cautious to shoot around you. Still have a defensive impact by causing shots to not be taken, but it doesn't show up in the box score. Sometimes worse defenders end up with better blocked-shot stats because they are out of position enough that opponents shoot against them more often - occasionally getting blocks, while better defenders get fewer blocks because they play better defense and cause the opponent to just give up and pass the ball.

[NJFlyr71]

UD's reliance on shooting 3's came back to haunt them in the Houston game.

I also think that this team (as it appears to be so far this early in the season) starts slow in the beginning. Against superior talent or physicality (or both) falling behind in the first 10 minutes is/could put an end to being successful in any recovery later on.

My take was we were able to overcome that issue within the first 2 games but not so much in the Houston game.

[CoffeeCan]

Would like to see:

Jack at the 5 and Holmes at the 4 at times
Brea needs to start
Less Elvis
More Cheeks

[udflyer88]

Originally Posted by Jeff Nice job on the summary. The tournament also provides a "to do list" of necessary improvements. Just some thoughts on what the numbers say. (Subject to any Figgee corrections). Opponents take on average 5 more shots / game. However, against NW & Houston, that difference was 14.5. Diving in on the better opponents exposes the gaps. Not surprisingly, in both of those games they were out rebounded on the offensive glass by 8.5. Included on the shots above, the flyers have taken 35 more 3's than the competition, while making a lower percentage. (33.9% vs. 40%) Less Bennett & Elvis, more Santos & Brea from long distance. The good news is that the Flyers are getting to the line and hitting FT's. +5 more / game. Holmes improvement over the past two years has been impressive. Rebounding, in general needs work. Remember Holmes as a freshman? He was a "swat machine". Seems that part of his game has diminished, perhaps in an effort to keep him on his feet and out of potential foul trouble. Holmes is going to get his points down low. Santos has been a pleasant surprise and can take it to the hoop or hit a three. More of him is better for this team. Who emerges after those two? Brea, who helps on the defensive boards, can excel in certain offensive plays, and they should be maximized. Cheeks....Cheeks is a guy that could make a difference. Not sure if it learning the system, feeling comfortable in it, or just finding his place. Seems to go through stretches of just being a non factor. Cheeks is the one player that looks to be able to significantly improve as the year moves on. I hope I'm right. Shots that Bennett & Elvis are taking need to go to Cheeks, he's shooting 20% points higher than Elvis/Bennett, while taking 25% less shots per game than both of them. Plainly, combined, they are 15.6 shots / game while Cheeks is taking 6, meanwhile Cheeks hits 20% more of his shots. Move 6 shots a game to Cheeks, scoring would increase, and force teams to defend more than Holmes & Santos. Ditto Jack. Face it, he's not going to get huge minutes, but he's demonstrating his offensive value. In the A-10, he's going to be a huge asset. The point. Bennett & Elvis need to understand their roles...take care of the ball, solid entry passes, play some D, and get the offensive flow moving.....no endless dribbling and crazy threes. The team cannot be successful if they continue to be #2 (41) & #3 (37) in shots taken (to Homes 52) while sporting the two lowest shooting %'s on the team. A portion of their collective shots need to move to Santos & Cheeks.

great post and wonderful point about cheeks taking more shots than bennet/Elvis - plus cheeks stronger than those other 2 as well.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Would like to see: Jack at the 5 and Holmes at the 4 at times Brea needs to start Less Elvis More Cheeks

I agree with this, going back to the rotation issue AG has.

I actually LIKE all the dribbling Elvis does, but only when he's on the floor with 4 other guys who can't get their own shot. Why? Because passing around the perimeter is even less useful than Elvis trying to get creative with the dribble.

And as we saw in the Houston game, if he's herky-jerky dribbling around, he puts a lot of pressure on the defense and a 9-0 A/TO ratio against the #6 team shows he can create something for less creative players like Jack / Zimi and steal some rest minutes for the starters.

In short: role players like Zimi and Jack can be productive because of all that dribbling by Elvis. It won't win us the game, but it will let us hang tough without a major offensive lull when the scorers are on the bench.

[Fudd]

I agree on Elvis dribbling against Houston. I think it was sometimes our most effective offense in that game. He is hard to handle off the dribble, and it sometimes results in a defensive breakdown that opens up another man.

He is our best dribble penetration guy, IMO. I still don't have a problem with him shooting the ball. I know he is in a terrible slump, but based on his past seasons, I think he will break out of that.

[Flyer 86]

Ft shooting is Light Years above where it's been the past 2 yrs. Great work by DaRon and others!

[troj]

A nice run in the tournament. Optimistic for the season. Someone please contact Ryan Perryman to come in for a weeklong rebounding clinic. Both losses were mainly result of getting killed on the offensive rebounding side.

[steverino015]

and guard shooting cannot be overlooked, it was horrible!!

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by Gazoo These tournaments are not just about getting P5 scalps, they're about actually getting better as a team (believe it or not). That goal was accomplished. Key observations: Holmes gets the attention, Santos is the playa. W-O-W did Pitt let one get away. Can someone find the offseason comments by maddog about him being a mediocre player, I feel like there had to be some of that. We've taken a bit of a downgrade in our PG with Bennett. Him + Mali would have really been something special I think. BUT, Bennett has the heart of a lion. Jack is more than a space filler. In the last 2 games there were extended stretches where I thought "do we HAVE to bring Holmes back off the bench??" We played better with Jack at times. (Note: of course I'm not suggesting we bench Holmes.) Elvis still cannot shoot. But he should sub out first and run the point when he subs back in. Just go create something with the second team. Brea can shoot. And shoot he will. Fire away my man. As I said before the season started, I just hope Petras doesn't transfer because in a year or 2 we'll be really glad he's here. For now it's spot duty. And the best for last: Zimi. There's a real spot for a guy that just wants to hustle, play under control, and play defense. It might only be 10-12 minutes, but WE NEED YOU ZIMI. Did you expect to say that before the start of the season?

Santos was less than mediocre at Pitt. A very pleasant surprise here so far in every respect.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GoFlyer]

[QUOTE=maddog07;747706]Santos was less than mediocre at Pitt. A very pleasant surprise here so far in every respect.


I doubt if it was a surprise to the coaching staff.

[flyerfanatic86]

[QUOTE=GoFlyer;747708]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Santos was less than mediocre at Pitt. A very pleasant surprise here so far in every respect. I doubt if it was a surprise to the coaching staff.

Probably a surprise to Jeff Capel.

[Buckleyma]

Apparently it was a surprise to Rick Pitino, as well, who credited their loss to poor preparation. I think Pitino meant that Santos was better than they expected.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyers98]

[QUOTE=GoFlyer;747708]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Santos was less than mediocre at Pitt. A very pleasant surprise here so far in every respect. I doubt if it was a surprise to the coaching staff.

I don't know how you can call a kid that didn't get to play a lot, "less than mediocre." Was Trey Landers less than mediocre under Archie or did he just not get to play for whatever reason.

[longtimefan]

[QUOTE=Flyers98;747714]

Originally Posted by GoFlyer I don't know how you can call a kid that didn't get to play a lot, "less than mediocre." Was Trey Landers less than mediocre under Archie or did he just not get to play for whatever reason.

And I guess Jordan Sibert was "less than mediocre" at Ohio State.

[Fudd]

College players often grow in confidence, skills and develop. With experience, they begin to understand what will work for them in division 1 basketball. They come into college at 17 or 18 years old. It does not go in a positive direction for every player, but there is a lot of potential for improvement from start to finish in college ball. This makes year-to-year predictions in the sport more difficult than others, IMO.

Now, with the new transfer rules, It gets even more difficult to predict. The fortunes of programs can change more rapidly now.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

[QUOTE=longtimefan;747731]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 And I guess Jordan Sibert was "less than mediocre" at Ohio State.

As a freshman, he shot 29% and averaged just over 2 ppg. As a sophomore, he bumped up to just over 30% and averaged 3 ppg. Clearly, we were just lucky that it worked out. It’s crazy to think that the coaches saw a guy with great form and a high ceiling.
Posted via Mobile Device

[steverino015]

[QUOTE=Hyde Park Flyer;747739]

Originally Posted by longtimefan As a freshman, he shot 29% and averaged just over 2 ppg. As a sophomore, he bumped up to just over 30% and averaged 3 ppg. Clearly, we were just lucky that it worked out. It’s crazy to think that the coaches saw a guy with great form and a high ceiling. Posted via Mobile Device

actually, wasn't it Archie who saw a guy with great form and a high ceiling when he
was one of the main recruiters at Ohio State? And it was that very reason why he
brought him to UD? That was my understanding.

yes, it worked out well... But yes, Archie Miller saw a guy with great form and a
high ceiling for us, it happened..... https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...w2qM5NPHrPKGN/

as the 2010 Gatorade player of the year in Ohio, he was well known as a player with
great form and a high ceiling with whatever college he chose. <Although he appreciated
his time at OSU, which included a trip to the Final Four, he felt he was pigeonholed into
strictly being a shooter when it was his explosiveness to the basket and all-around game
that made him a top-50 national recruit.>

[PepBand Man]

Has there been any talk about which holiday tournament the Flyer might play next year (2024)? I see that the Maui teams has been selected already.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by PepBand Man Has there been any talk about which holiday tournament the Flyer might play next year (2024)? I see that the Maui teams has been selected already.

We will be in Maui next year. What is not yet known is where the tournament will be held—this year’s site, the original site, or somewhere else altogether.

https://mauiinvitational.com/news/20...ent-field.aspx

[UD62]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer We will be in Maui next year. What is not yet known is where the tournament will be held—this year’s site, the original site, or somewhere else altogether. https://mauiinvitational.com/news/20...ent-field.aspx

How quite as strong as this year,( #1,2 and 4) but will be an uphill battle for the Flyers, given II will be gone. Great opportunity if we have the horses.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer We will be in Maui next year. What is not yet known is where the tournament will be held—this year’s site, the original site, or somewhere else altogether. https://mauiinvitational.com/news/20...ent-field.aspx

No Chaminade? I thought they were always in their own invitational.

[kman84ud]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow No Chaminade? I thought they were always in their own invitational.

Since 2017 Chaminade has only been in the 8 team field in odd numbered years.

[46 Chambers Alumni]

Originally Posted by kman84ud Since 2017 Chaminade has only been in the 8 team field in odd numbered years.

Recent rule. Charleston could not be in its own tournament. Is was in it last year-actually won it.