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  #1  
Old 09-09-2018, 01:14 PM
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How does UD football survive?

Ichecked this and the Football forum. I did not see any discussion of UD-SEMO game Sat. No one cares? Not D-1 as are VB & Soccer. I'm amazed at the level of play of UD football.....when it appears no one cares. Hope I missed something and am 100% wrong.
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:31 PM
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Agree the football site does not get much play, and the play it does get is often times the parents of the players. Having said that, the program is D-1 non-scholarship and is eligible for the FCS championship. Attendance at the games could be better but it still outdraws, all the other D-1 sports save men's basketball. competition for the football fan is intense with the BIG and the MAC holding all the cards. Not a lot of interest overall on the FCS Flyers. The model for the football program is a good one for UD, not a huge expense, produces a quality product, and contributes to the overall excellence of the athletic program. There are those who advocate dropping football and giving that $$ to men's basketball. That is an option of course, but one I don't see the university taking.

Last edited by UD62; 09-09-2018 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:20 PM
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Not sure if this is the case at UD but I've seen football mentioned as a good recruiting tool for male students at D3 schools
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:21 PM
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I am a Flyer Football fan and season ticket holder since 81. I love the football program and it survives because of the number of students it brings to the school. Additionally, it is a first class run program.

The game yesterday was not widely talked about yet because a lot of people like me were at the game. It was an 8 hour drive in mostly pouring rain. It was also against a team not many people know about around Dayton.

The problem as I see it is the university doesn't do a good job promoting the program. They don't advertise the fun that is attending a game. It is a family type of event that is affordable. They need to do more fun things to get students involved. It would be a better product and attendance would improve if played on campus.

All of the athletic programs are division 1 and volleyball is free. My daughter and I love watching the Volleyball and women's basketball games. All great team programs.

Dayton needs to do a better job promoting these other sports.

Go Flyers!
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:22 PM
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I watched the 2nd half on ESPN+ for what it's worth...
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Not sure if this is the case at UD but I've seen football mentioned as a good recruiting tool for male students at D3 schools
As are all other sports at DIII schools.

Why would a "typical" inbound college kid skip out on the experience of UD, BGSU, tOSU, OU, etc for that of a university that often times may be the same size or smaller than the high school they went to? The overwhelming reason is that they want to continue to play competitive sports.

Where I went, I would venture to say at least 25% of the students played a sport. The only reason the majority of that 25% went to a school in the middle of the country, that lacked many of the things a large university can provide, is because of sports.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:47 PM
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Great observation and great question...

UD Football survives by managing costs (No Scholarships), donations from clubs like Varsity D, donations from past players and football community. No different from every other sport at Dayton (aside from Men's Basketball).

It's a great progam that puts out quality student athletes and represents the university well. It provides an opportunity for many quality high school players to get a great education and continue to compete at a high level. Many talented players that might be an inch too short or a stride too slow end up at Dayton and get a chance they might now otherwise get.

The fact that Dayton was leading SEMO at the end of the third quarter is extremely impressive for those that understand the talent level of football outside of division 1-A.

The program is in the right conference given the current college football landscape. A much bigger question is how do the other Ohio D-1 programs not named "The Ohio State University" survive?

Attendance for the MAC's 12 football programs broke down as follows:
Toledo: 20,745 per game (up from 20,628 in 2016)
Akron: 19,569 (up from 10,337)
Ohio: 19,388 (down from 21,190)
Miami: 16,444 (down from 17,110)
Western Michigan: 15,886 (down from 23,838)
Bowling Green: 15,881 (up from 15,140)

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2016/4/18...enses-released

So back to the question "How does it survive?"

It survives through it's community: parents, players, past players, and true Dayton Fans who enjoy good football and appreciate the history of the progam.

I'll finish with a little trivia:

What school has produced the most head coach Super Bowl titles?

http://ohiowins.com/university-dayto...-bowl-coaches/

Sorry for the long winded response, but I am thankful for the time I was able to spend as part of the program and thankful for the friendships and connections I made during that time.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:26 PM
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Have to admit to a bias toward the Flyers. My dad played qb for Harry Baujan in the mid and late 20's. Been following them for a long time.Flyers were not verey good while I was at UD in the late 50's early 60's. The move to DIII and then the forced move to D-1 non-scholarship and the Pioneer league was a good move. still try to get up to Dayton for a game every year. Enjoy posting on the football site but the strength of the site mainly rests with the families of the players. Been that way for quite a while.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:26 PM
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Article I found on Notre Who's site from 2009 showed Dayton behind only Nebraska, Penn State, and the Irish for the most football Academic All Americans all time.

https://und.com/news/2009/7/3/Notre_..._All_Americans
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  #10  
Old 09-09-2018, 10:41 PM
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Don't Forget John McVay

the General Manager of the San Francisco 49'ers who had several Super Bowl wins and is the Grandfather of the LA Rams coach.
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  #11  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:51 AM
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Just my $0.02. I agree with all of the positive attributes of the program and the value statements, but from a fan perspective, they don't play any teams I'm interested in, and they don't play for any championship that I care about. If on a rare occasion they can make the FCS playoffs, they are still so out manned that it ends up a lopsided loss. I followed them more when they were D3 and actually competed for a true national championship - but the NCAA eliminated that opportunity. They are now in a tiny cocoon of similar schools with no other option.

For any UD football historians out there, were there any defining moments that led UD to the present status instead of a level like Villanova, UConn, Temple, Miami, etc?

That said, it's amazing all of the huge household football names that have been involved with UD football over the years - including currently:
Noll
Gruden
McVey
Baujan
Patrick
Lombardi (grandson)
and the fact that UD holds or is at the top of various quirky statistical football categories.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:22 PM
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Back in 1964 to 68 UD had some connection with the NY Giants. I forget who the UD coaches were then but I seem to remember some good years. We played MAC teams on regular basis.

Micky Bitsko, 1964? - played for NY Giants. Mike Ciccolella (?) played middle linebacker for the NY Giants in lean years - Bob Print 1964? played defensive end (I think) for the San Diego Chargers for a while - Pete Richardson, a defensive back who graduated in 1968, played defensive back for a number of years for the Buffalo Bills.

John McVay played for Miami Ohio and was the coach at UD 72/73 and head coach of the NY Giants from 76 to 78 without much success. He went to the front office at 49ers and was very successful with Bill Walsh. McVay was NFL Executive of the Year in 1989.

We have some football heritage.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UD90 View Post
I'll finish with a little trivia:

What school has produced the most head coach Super Bowl titles?

http://ohiowins.com/university-dayto...-bowl-coaches/
That has always been one of my favorite trivia questions. Unfortunately - UD no longer has that title alone. Wesleyan (another football powerhouse) has tied us with 5. All of theirs come from Belichick.

Regardless, we need Gruden to go win another and win back our fun fact!
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Just my $0.02. I agree with all of the positive attributes of the program and the value statements, but from a fan perspective, they don't play any teams I'm interested in, and they don't play for any championship that I care about. If on a rare occasion they can make the FCS playoffs, they are still so out manned that it ends up a lopsided loss. I followed them more when they were D3 and actually competed for a true national championship - but the NCAA eliminated that opportunity. They are now in a tiny cocoon of similar schools with no other option.

For any UD football historians out there, were there any defining moments that led UD to the present status instead of a level like Villanova, UConn, Temple, Miami, etc?

That said, it's amazing all of the huge household football names that have been involved with UD football over the years - including currently:
Noll
Gruden
McVey
Baujan
Patrick
Lombardi (grandson)
and the fact that UD holds or is at the top of various quirky statistical football categories.

Denny Greene (Vikings)
George Perles (Michigan State)
Wayne Fontes (Detroit Lions)
Tom Moore (OC for the Colts when Peyton was there)


Heck, at one point, Perles, Fontes and Moore where assistants together at UD under McVey.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Back in 1964 to 68 UD had some connection with the NY Giants. I forget who the UD coaches were then but I seem to remember some good years. We played MAC teams on regular basis.

Micky Bitsko, 1964? - played for NY Giants. Mike Ciccolella (?) played middle linebacker for the NY Giants in lean years - Bob Print 1964? played defensive end (I think) for the San Diego Chargers for a while - Pete Richardson, a defensive back who graduated in 1968, played defensive back for a number of years for the Buffalo Bills.

John McVay played for Miami Ohio and was the coach at UD 72/73 and head coach of the NY Giants from 76 to 78 without much success. He went to the front office at 49ers and was very successful with Bill Walsh. McVay was NFL Executive of the Year in 1989.

We have some football heritage.
Tom Moore (Peyton Manning's personal OC) George Perles, Jerry Hanlon, Dennis Green, Wayne Fontes all coached under McVay.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:23 PM
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Don't forget that Jim Katkavage played for the Giants. Also from the McVey coaching era Mark Ellison played for the G-Men,Mike Wilson played for the early Bengals and Gary Cousins played for the Dolphins and Bears. Also Bob DeMarco played for ST. Louis Cardinals.

Last edited by Bill McPeek; 09-10-2018 at 02:29 PM.. Reason: additonal information
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:32 PM
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DeMarco played 15 seasons in the NFL for four teams, leaving the Miami Dolphins the year before they went 17-0. He was a three-time Pro Bowl selection.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:12 PM
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Grew up watching osu football and high school u til I played. Never went to any ud games in 4 years. Not really sure why ud has a team if they wonít try to be competitive and give scholarships
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:44 PM
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Lets do some math (Source = UD finical aid web page):
100 players on roster x $58000 cost of attendance (tuition, board and fees) = $5.8M
Average 1st year student receives $28,000 in financial aid = $30,000 per student net COA.

This might be why Dayton football survives:
Men's football brings in $3M in revenue each year from the players tuition. If they spend $1M on football related expenses, they still generate $2M in revenue.
The women's sports at UD spent $5,628,072 on women's teams and received $2,802,959 in revenue. (Source: Collegefactual.com)

So maybe, just maybe, football survives because they help cover the losses of all women's sports. Just a thought...
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Grew up watching osu football and high school u til I played. Never went to any ud games in 4 years. Not really sure why ud has a team if they wonít try to be competitive and give scholarships
I would submit that the Flyers are very competitive. The school made the financial decision to get out of the big money losing situation of FBS football. It is a good fit for the school. When we were full scholarship we were an independent. Would be hard to find a home now, besides no way the UD takes on that huge financial burden. Granted the situation is not everone's cup of tea, but it does work for the school.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:22 PM
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Football covers Title 9

That's what Chicago '92 is telling me. It sure does not exist for interest it creates or media coverage generated....or fans in the stands.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
That's what Chicago '92 is telling me. It sure does not exist for interest it creates or media coverage generated....or fans in the stands.
If fans in the stands is the measurement, football comes in second to MBB. As far as media coverage, hard to do with tOSU is the area. Like I said. May not be for everyone. I enjoy following the FB team.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:18 PM
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I follow the football Flyers now that I can get games streamed online. I just wish somebody would at least start a game thread for each game. It's a shame there is not as much fan interest as there should be.

And just like with women's basketball, somebody should take up the challenge of promoting and selling the product to students. I know there's a lot going on for students, but why not be a fan of your teams and enjoy the fun of attending their games and cheering them on? Or, if you're too cool to get all rah rah, at least enjoy the spectacle. It's your small window of time to take it all in as a student. Carpe the darn diem.

Would be an interesting challenge for a marketing class. Has anybody ever done a master's thesis on how to successfully market a specific product to fellow students? Somebody should organize a competition for business plans on how to increase attendance for football, women's basketball, volleyball and soccer. Red Scare took the wrong approach a while ago, more using the stick than the carrot. Time to try the carrot? Free pizza? Random student fan of the week gets a thousand bucks? Lottery at each game for a free case of beer? There must be a million ways to get the buzz happening. Somebody just needs to take the bull by the horns.

Sorry for the rant, but jeez, there must be some entrepreneurship brains on campus willing to take on the challenge. Or, as Squidward once said, "If I had a dollar for each brain you don't have...I'd have...a dollar."
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:58 PM
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They already tried free food and a free raffle for the first home game.

https://daytonflyers.com/news/2018/8...?path=football

Football attendance in Ohio - other than tosu - is a problem for every college.

Cincinnati beats UCLA and they move the Miami/UC game to PBS. They get 16K announced in a 65K stadium. With the rain, my guess is that butts in the seats were far less.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:27 AM
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Anybody know what the "Dayton Flyer Prize Packs" were that were being raffled off? Once again, either poor marketing to not describe what the raffle prizes were if they were valuable, or poor promotion if the prizes were chewing gum and stickers.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
They already tried free food and a free raffle for the first home game.

https://daytonflyers.com/news/2018/8...?path=football

Football attendance in Ohio - other than tosu - is a problem for every college.

Cincinnati beats UCLA and they move the Miami/UC game to PBS. They get 16K announced in a 65K stadium. With the rain, my guess is that butts in the seats were far less.
Agree, it's tough for schools not named tOSU. in the MAC Miami Redhawks don't draw flies. Recall seeing the weeknight games on tv where it appeared the Flyers outdraw the Hawks. Hockey is the big sport there. with MBB and FB left in the dust. In fairness, the Hawks are a better tean recently and may be drawing better, I just havent seen a game.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cardsflyer View Post
I am a Flyer Football fan and season ticket holder since 81. I love the football program and it survives because of the number of students it brings to the school. Additionally, it is a first class run program.

The game yesterday was not widely talked about yet because a lot of people like me were at the game. It was an 8 hour drive in mostly pouring rain. It was also against a team not many people know about around Dayton.

The problem as I see it is the university doesn't do a good job promoting the program. They don't advertise the fun that is attending a game. It is a family type of event that is affordable. They need to do more fun things to get students involved. It would be a better product and attendance would improve if played on campus.

All of the athletic programs are division 1 and volleyball is free. My daughter and I love watching the Volleyball and women's basketball games. All great team programs.

Dayton needs to do a better job promoting these other sports.

Go Flyers!
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:52 AM
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Cards, I feel the same way. Two years ago I emailed the new president of UD Dr Spina expressing frustration at how little the university seems to do to promote football. Parent weekend game (this week) is always packed and a blast for everyone attending and even those that remain in parking lot. I thought every game should have that atmosphere. Prez Spina didnít disagree and put me in touch with the UD sport marketing department. Some of suggestions were little things like signage, you wouldnít know you were at UD if you looked around Welcome . I also contacted a marketing professor who took up the challenge and used it as a project for his class last year. He was honest and said with this type of project it would take a year or two to implement ideas. Well that time has now come, there is some signage in stadium that actually says Dayton Flyer Football, they are trying raffles and offered a free barbecue at opener. One of main obstacles though is Welcome itself, located off campus, although not far many students rather stay on campus and walk around in various sport jerseys and day drink. Which isnít something just going on at UD but at other campus across country. This weekends PFL opener should produce a great crowd for Parent weekend and hopefully there is some momentum. I myself think Welcome Stadium tailgate could be a perfect place to kick off a Saturday night for the UD students provided they wear Flyer jerseys of course. 🍺🍺 Go Flyers
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