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01-21-2018, 03:22 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by udscott
Disagree, no way AG just lets him disrespect and do what he wants do we can keep up our APR, if that's true would u want that in a head coach?
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Yes, i do. Your APR can be used as reasoning to give scholarship reductions or even a postseason ban. You do what you need to do to keep your APR OK.
Also, your schtick is really tired.
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01-21-2018, 04:08 PM
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Colonel
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Who cares what u think of me, I'm allowed my opinion just like u, don't like it leave
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01-21-2018, 05:54 PM
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Udscott is a one trick pony. Not sure why anyone replies to him. He is your typical complainer that hinds behind a keyboard. Nothing here to see folks.
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01-21-2018, 06:17 PM
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Colonel
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It's a messsge board on the internet, where else am I supposed to hide ??
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01-21-2018, 06:24 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by udscott
It's a messsge board on the internet, where else am I supposed to hide ??
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Focus on similarities. Fck that tiny regional school 45 min south....
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01-21-2018, 07:19 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by udscott
It's a messsge board on the internet, where else am I supposed to hide ??
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That's actually pretty funny. I mean the irony of the guy running a college basketball forum dissing one of his users for "hiding behind a keyboard" giving his opinions. One thinks everything is great, even during crap seasons and the other thinks everything is wrong during great seasons. Can someone explain why one is better than the other?
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01-21-2018, 07:31 PM
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General
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Anthony Grant is one of ours & we're gonna protect him
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01-21-2018, 11:16 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Well, handbook aside, you cannot let this kid have a scholarship next year. Strip it from him and he can go back to NJ and think about the tremendous life opportunity he is missing.
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True, he can have his scholarship revoked after the season. And, by the look of things as of right now, that’s the most probable outcome. But both AG and the U know that cutting a guy in midseason has an impact on the APR, and that might be a major concern at this point.
Also, here’s a question for those who’re familiar with the APR equation: what effect, if any, does the 2014-15 midseason expulsions of Dumb and Dumber have on UD’s current APR? I’m curious to see if there’s a lingering effect that might be affecting any decisions regarding Pierce.
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01-22-2018, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Also, here’s a question for those who’re familiar with the APR equation: what effect, if any, does the 2014-15 midseason expulsions of Dumb and Dumber have on UD’s current APR? I’m curious to see if there’s a lingering effect that might be affecting any decisions regarding Pierce.
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And not to debate your point...but more so for the others that will say...."They released dumb and dumber, they can do it now"....There is a big difference with a player not meeting expectations in the basketball world and criminals that are a liability on campus. The risk of D&D was more than enough to take an APR hit...
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01-22-2018, 07:37 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
Wonder why they took it down. They've removed the cork and allowed the genie to escape. I'm more surprised they discussed it and posted it at all. Once it was up, it no longer mattered.
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Probably because they realized it was disingenuous for L & B to air that info and the follow up Bedell tweet. Right or wrong, good or bad, lazy or [fill in the blank], it's not in UD's (or their media partner Cox Enterprises) DNA to single out a kid's status on the team for either poor grades, poor performance, or poor attitude. In the past when there is an issue with any of these behaviors, they speak in generalities, i.e., "unless some players step up their game/attitude/effort, etc., they might find themselves playing elsewhere...".
L & B's remarks were also discussed during Flyer Feedback w/ Bedell and Brooks Hall. Brooks handled it much better, probably because he played the game. Then again, so did Bucky...
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01-22-2018, 08:03 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by shocka43
And not to debate your point...but more so for the others that will say...."They released dumb and dumber, they can do it now"....There is a big difference with a player not meeting expectations in the basketball world and criminals that are a liability on campus. The risk of D&D was more than enough to take an APR hit...
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Thanks shocka43, but I think I didn’t explain that I was only looking at it from a “statistical” perspective, not “perception”. Sort of like when a driver gets a moving violation and the “points” stay on his/her record for ‘X’ number of years. I’m guessing UD got an APR hit for doing the proper thing and releasing D&D in the middle of the 2014-15 season. Would that hit carry-over as far as 2018-19 (when an APR hit from releasing Pierce would most likely kick-in)? That’s what I was trying to ask.
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01-22-2018, 12:09 PM
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These are very frustrating situations that obviously no program wants to deal with. As a fan, it pi**es you off to no end. But you never know what is going on in the mind and life of any young athlete (Derenbecker). Like anything in life, you make the best decisions you can with the information you have, from scouting to recruiting to practice to games to helping another human being who obviously is not responding the way everyone would expect. Now we need to navigate the ARP versus doing what we need to do to win, equation.
The fact that Larry/Bucky made this public, still makes me say WOW. Also, remember how we did after D&D left the team . . .
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01-22-2018, 02:47 PM
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This whole thing with Pierce is a mess. All, I feel, are doing their best to make the best of a bad situation. Pierce is not the victim here. All the rest of us are. That includes Larry and Bucky, who have way more basketball, announcing and UD experience than any of us.
In AG I trust. Also, in Larry and Bucky I trust.
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01-22-2018, 02:54 PM
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General
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The APR is a two year average so the gentlemen who left us won't effect it
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01-22-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
This whole thing with Pierce is a mess. All, I feel, are doing their best to make the best of a bad situation. Pierce is not the victim here. All the rest of us are. That includes Larry and Bucky, who have way more basketball, announcing and UD experience than any of us.
In AG I trust. Also, in Larry and Bucky I trust.
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If Pierce is walking off the floor and not attending class, I fail to see how I am a victim in this, and Pierce bears no fault.
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01-22-2018, 03:52 PM
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Interested to hear if anyone steps up to the microphone and asks about the situation during tonight's radio show or if Larry will bring it up since it's in the public domain.
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01-22-2018, 05:56 PM
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Anyone know what time the Anthony Grant WHIO radio show with Larry Hansgen is on tonight?
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01-22-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer
Anyone know what time the Anthony Grant WHIO radio show with Larry Hansgen is on tonight?
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7:00 p.m.
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01-22-2018, 09:00 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
The APR is a two year average so the gentlemen who left us won't effect it
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Thanks, OSU.
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01-22-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Anthony Grant is one of ours & we're gonna protect him
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He's our head coach and was hired to fulfill high expectations. He should be held to a high standard. Nothing more, nothing less.
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01-23-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62
If Pierce is walking off the floor and not attending class, I fail to see how I am a victim in this, and Pierce bears no fault.
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Any of us who pay money to see the Flyers or donate to UD, from which Pierce is given a scholarship and all other expenses he incurs playing basketball, are wasting our money on this kid. He shows not only disrespect to Grant and his staff, but to his teammates and all UD fans. Secondly, Pierce is 100% at fault on this. He is being given a free ride, tutors and all the coaching help he needs, and he is choosing to reject it.
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01-23-2018, 10:56 AM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by jack72
Any of us who pay money to see the Flyers or donate to UD, from which Pierce is given a scholarship and all other expenses he incurs playing basketball, are wasting our money on this kid. He shows not only disrespect to Grant and his staff, but to his teammates and all UD fans. Secondly, Pierce is 100% at fault on this. He is being given a free ride, tutors and all the coaching help he needs, and he is choosing to reject it.
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Wow what an entitled way to look at things. As a paying fan, all I am entitled to is to a space in the lot, to get in the door and to be able to sit in the seat to which I have been assigned. Anything in regards to the success of the team is solely up to me to determine if the cost of those things is worth my money.
No player or coach or even university owes me anything more than that. While it is in their collective best interests to provide much of what some on this board expect, I am in no way entitled to anything more. It's my choice to decide if I want to spend my money on the product/service or not.
Let's not mistake our passion for sports or our alma mater as being owed. Huge difference. Perhaps this way of thinking is why some on this board are so angry and refuse to accept the realities of this team as it pertains to the results we are seeing this year.
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01-23-2018, 11:01 AM
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Too bad, he seemed promising for a big. Hopefully he gets himself straightened out
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01-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Wow what an entitled way to look at things.
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It's not about entitlement. It is about paying for a service. And, for some (like me), it's about keeping people excited by leading by example. Yes, you can opt in or out of donating, purchasing tickets, apparel, etc as you see fit. However, anything I work for or towards in my career and/or personal life is going to get effort. Full effort.
This brings up two additional points:
1) Pierce - Man up or hit the bricks. Blunt, and simple. Welcome to big boy life.
2) If I held a position at UD that has anything to do with athletics at all, I feel it is my duty to deliver the best product possible. Again, talking anyone that deals with the athletics department in any way, that product is a successful team or teams (depending on your role).
Anything short of that, you are failing at your duty. Your job. If players come in that don't own up to their duty to play hard, whether or not they have the skills, talent, etc to succeed, Discipline them, or let them leave if they can't at very least put in the effort. That is inexcusible. As a professional in the space, you are setting a bad example from the top down if you also don't do your part to lead with intensity and to set the right example.
Then again, I get bent out of shape when someone at McDonald's loads all the pickles on one side of my sandwich. Take price in what you do, or don't do it.
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01-23-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Wow what an entitled way to look at things. As a paying fan, all I am entitled to is to a space in the lot, to get in the door and to be able to sit in the seat to which I have been assigned. Anything in regards to the success of the team is solely up to me to determine if the cost of those things is worth my money.
No player or coach or even university owes me anything more than that. While it is in their collective best interests to provide much of what some on this board expect, I am in no way entitled to anything more. It's my choice to decide if I want to spend my money on the product/service or not.
Let's not mistake our passion for sports or our alma mater as being owed. Huge difference. Perhaps this way of thinking is why some on this board are so angry and refuse to accept the realities of this team as it pertains to the results we are seeing this year.
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Perhaps the post of the year!
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01-23-2018, 01:34 PM
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Was anything said on AG's show last night??
Wonder how this is playing out as far as the rest of the team is concerned? Has to be a distraction at the least.
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01-23-2018, 01:49 PM
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*Wabler once sent me a letter addressed to 'Rollo'...I was both humbled and worthy!
Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Wow what an entitled way to look at things. As a paying fan, all I am entitled to is to a space in the lot, to get in the door and to be able to sit in the seat to which I have been assigned. Anything in regards to the success of the team is solely up to me to determine if the cost of those things is worth my money.
No player or coach or even university owes me anything more than that. While it is in their collective best interests to provide much of what some on this board expect, I am in no way entitled to anything more. It's my choice to decide if I want to spend my money on the product/service or not.
Let's not mistake our passion for sports or our alma mater as being owed. Huge difference. Perhaps this way of thinking is why some on this board are so angry and refuse to accept the realities of this team as it pertains to the results we are seeing this year.
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Perhaps the post of the year!
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If I'm only paying for tickets and a parking pass, I somewhat agree with what you're saying as you're only going their for entertainment purposes...no different than a movie...but even then, they do owe you their best.
But plenty of us pay a seat license on top of the ticket/parking and that, my friends, makes UD basketball/athletics not only a form of entertainment, but also an personal investment...so to me, they owe this group not only their best, but an open dialogue, too.
With that said, Neil probably doesn't know Jimmy Cunningham in sect 444 row ZZZ, but he does know others...many by name...for a reason. It's his business.
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01-23-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Wow what an entitled way to look at things. As a paying fan, all I am entitled to is to a space in the lot, to get in the door and to be able to sit in the seat to which I have been assigned. Anything in regards to the success of the team is solely up to me to determine if the cost of those things is worth my money.
No player or coach or even university owes me anything more than that. While it is in their collective best interests to provide much of what some on this board expect, I am in no way entitled to anything more. It's my choice to decide if I want to spend my money on the product/service or not.
Let's not mistake our passion for sports or our alma mater as being owed. Huge difference. Perhaps this way of thinking is why some on this board are so angry and refuse to accept the realities of this team as it pertains to the results we are seeing this year.
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You used the words "entitled" and "owed". Not my language or thoughts. In fact I don't remember amongst all the moaning this year anyone using that language.
My language was, "are wasting our money on this kid. He shows not only disrespect to Grant and his staff, but to his teammates and all UD fans." In other words, if what we are hearing is accurate, put him on the next bus, or on one at the end of the semester, or eventually the support for our program wanes.
If you accept what he is doing, then imagine a team with several guys like this. How happy would we be?
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01-23-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
If I'm only paying for tickets and a parking pass, I somewhat agree with what you're saying as you're only going their for entertainment purposes...no different than a movie...but even then, they do owe you their best.
But plenty of us pay a seat license on top of the ticket/parking and that, my friends, makes UD basketball/athletics not only a form of entertainment, but also an personal investment...so to me, they owe this group not only their best, but an open dialogue, too.
With that said, Neil probably doesn't know Jimmy Cunningham in sect 444 row ZZZ, but he does know others...many by name...for a reason. It's his business.
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I agree with what you are saying but I am not a casual fan. I have missed very few games since the late 70s and have been buying season tickets and paying the
seat license for years. I have infected my entire family and many, many friends with my Flyer Fever.
The point is I am fully vested but I am not an owner. I am not due anything. I want more than what the last 4 years has brought but I am not due that, nor explanations about strategy, playing time, inside player information etc. Like any other investment of my time or money I want maximum ROI but have to continually evaluate my expectations versus the reality of the return and adjust as necessary.
I also agree like any business looking for customers it is in their interest to listen to us but I sure don't expect a bunch of 18-22 year olds to play for me or to change based on what I feel like I am entitled to as a fan of 40 years.
For a fan, any fan, to say they were wronged by JP is just flat out wrong.
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01-23-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
I agree with what you are saying but I am not a casual fan. I have missed very few games since the late 70s and have been buying season tickets and paying the
seat license for years. I have infected my entire family and many, many friends with my Flyer Fever.
The point is I am fully vested but I am not an owner. I am not due anything. I want more than what the last 4 years has brought but I am not due that, nor explanations about strategy, playing time, inside player information etc. Like any other investment of my time or money I want maximum ROI but have to continually evaluate my expectations versus the reality of the return and adjust as necessary.
I also agree like any business looking for customers it is in their interest to listen to us but I sure don't expect a bunch of 18-22 year olds to play for me or to change based on what I feel like I am entitled to as a fan of 40 years.
For a fan, any fan, to say they were wronged by JP is just flat out wrong.
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You aren't giving yourself enough credit regarding what you mean to the University.
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01-23-2018, 09:56 PM
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I don't expect an 18-22 year old kid to play for me. I expect the professionals, those paid for their services, to deal with that situation. Those 18-22 year old kids are adults, in college, learning what professional life is about. And, they have one hell of an opportunity!
I entrust those professionals to not allow slackers or freeloaders to be rewarded for their ways. To me, doing so not only does the paying students, hard-working athletes, donors, local businesses and fans a great injustice, but also the same 18-22 year old STUDENTS you speak of.
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01-23-2018, 10:17 PM
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How many of you have considered the possibility that this kid has real personal problems? I don't know the situation, but maybe he's leaving the court in personal dispair, going to the locker room, and crying because his mother has cancer. There's more than 1 interpretation of the events, maybe the kid is just struggling with life in general and needs AG and the team to support him until he's on stable ground.
Or maybe he's a prima donna jackball.
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01-23-2018, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
2) If I held a position at UD that has anything to do with athletics at all, I feel it is my duty to deliver the best product possible. Again, talking anyone that deals with the athletics department in any way, that product is a successful team or teams (depending on your role).
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I put this weeks check on those that have anything and everything to do with UD athletics, especially men's basketball, that they take their "duty" very seriously in providing the best product available.
With that said, those responsible for delivering the fan experience, those responsible for taking care of the people who have their names on walls and those who can smell the floor from the sidelines or pony up the funds for the charters, etc...carry out their duties to the fullest extent no matter what the product on the floor is. Granted, it is a big process...but the people that make a lot happen behind the scenes, and the casual fan, are treated well whether or not the team wins 25 games or 10 games.
The Athletic Department does their job religiously to make the Arena and the experience as a fan the best it can be no matter how the team is playing. 95% of the people in this wheel, don't have a thing to do or say that will impact the product on the floor. They can only hope that the product on the floor pans out to meet the lofty expectations they set for themselves off of the floor.
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01-24-2018, 12:05 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
How many of you have considered the possibility that this kid has real personal problems? I don't know the situation, but maybe he's leaving the court in personal dispair, going to the locker room, and crying because his mother has cancer. There's more than 1 interpretation of the events, maybe the kid is just struggling with life in general and needs AG and the team to support him until he's on stable ground.
Or maybe he's a prima donna jackball.
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Of course it was considered. If that was really the case, why was it presented over the air in the manner in which it was? There was absolutely no mention of the guy having any reason for walking off, aside from anytime anyone tries to push him.
Certainly, if there is more to the story then my stance changes. But, given what we know now, I don't get the sense that's what's going on.
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01-24-2018, 12:39 PM
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Sheesh, people never stop throwing the players under the bus around here. Remember, there are 2 sides to every story. Perhaps there is more to this than we know. How about people stop speculating?
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01-24-2018, 12:52 PM
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If there were a gut-wrenching, tear jerking, heart-tugging reason for Jordan Pierce to use an excuse for lack of playing time, Tom Archdeacon would have already written a column on it. It's what he does. And until I read such a column, I'm under the royal impression that Jordan is the cause of his situation.
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I shaved my balls for this?
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01-24-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
Of course it was considered. If that was really the case, why was it presented over the air in the manner in which it was? There was absolutely no mention of the guy having any reason for walking off, aside from anytime anyone tries to push him.
Certainly, if there is more to the story then my stance changes. But, given what we know now, I don't get the sense that's what's going on.
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Forgive my ignorance but do we know anything more than: Larry said something, nobody from the program has confirmed or denied it, Larry has not backed away from it but it has been removed from the WHIO site? If this is what we know, we know nothing. We certainly don't know enough to be making blanket judgments about the kid's character, saying he should be gone, etc...
On the APR, I get the overall sentiment and again I am not an expert on the intricacies of the APR, but don't we have an almost perfect APR? If that is the case and if, hypothetically, we had a student athlete openly disrespecting the coach, to me it is worth whatever the hit would be, (I assume negligible considering our overall track record). I will also guess that AG has made enough money between the NCAA and the NBA and has enough pride and self-respect that his bonus does not enter into the decision making process at all, (if that is, in fact, part of his deal with UD).
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01-24-2018, 01:23 PM
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He jumped in front of the bus!!
Originally Posted by ud2
Sheesh, people never stop throwing the players under the bus around here. Remember, there are 2 sides to every story. Perhaps there is more to this than we know. How about people stop speculating?
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That's why he was disciplined!!! The team has enough problems competing, don't need a freshmen adding to coach Grant's to do list.
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01-26-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
If there were a gut-wrenching, tear jerking, heart-tugging reason for Jordan Pierce to use an excuse for lack of playing time, Tom Archdeacon would have already written a column on it. It's what he does. And until I read such a column, I'm under the royal impression that Jordan is the cause of his situation.
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Don't get me wrong, that's the most likely story here.
I'm just saying it's OK to be ticked off at this kid's effort, but my stance on humanity is that no one LIKES being a waste of talent. Something is going on. Just because Arch doesn't know it, or even the coaching staff doesn't know it, doesn't mean it's not there.
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01-27-2018, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
If there were a gut-wrenching, tear jerking, heart-tugging reason for Jordan Pierce to use an excuse for lack of playing time, Tom Archdeacon would have already written a column on it. It's what he does. And until I read such a column, I'm under the royal impression that Jordan is the cause of his situation.
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Arch does a good job of telling sports stories that have an uplifting, human interest angle. The fact that he hasn’t done a story on Pierce simply means he hasn’t found anything uplifting or interesting about Pierce’s situation (yet). Will he ever find that angle on Pierce? We’ll know by the start of the next school year (if not sooner).
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01-27-2018, 01:17 AM
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I will say that I don't want Pierce to leave. I hope he finds himself and is able to contribute to the Flyers. But, if he chooses not to, and it will be his choice, then good luck in the future and next man up, who can we get.
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01-27-2018, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I will say that I don't want Pierce to leave. I hope he finds himself and is able to contribute to the Flyers. But, if he chooses not to, and it will be his choice, then good luck in the future and next man up, who can we get.
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Disagree, unless he has a very good reason for walking off the court and not putting in the effort. Being a freeloader is unacceptable.
Time for him to put in the work, or go home. Again, pending there's nothing more to the story.
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