|
|
01-20-2018, 04:29 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 3,942
Thanks: 4,069
Thanked 4,285 Times in 1,756 Posts
|
|
URI Loss
That was easy to predict.
There is a reason why URI is the best team in the A10. They are physically strong and the play smash mouth basketball. UD with the turnovers could not handle their pressure. It wasn't trapping, just hard defense.
The team is not committed to playing hard defense, especially when Trey goes to the bench. Three consecutive games giving up over 80 points. You could see the difference between the URI defense and UD.
At one time in the first half UD was shooting over 75% from the field and losing. How does that happen? 1) Turnovers, 2) Defense 3) Rebounding
Offense flow was good, but when URI stepped up, a lot of easy turnovers occurred. Nobody helps Josh on the boards, so URI had lots of offensive rebounds. They shot too many 3s, but no harm no foul because they would rebound too many of them.
The team shows flashes of brilliance but has shown no defensive improvement since the beginning of the year. That is simply heart, dedication and communication.
Monster game by Josh. I wish he had help.
|
Mad Props to SeasonTicketFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 05:37 PM
|
1st Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 155
Thanks: 31
Thanked 247 Times in 92 Posts
|
|
Cunningham had a great game, but that missed layup/turnover/airballed 3 really killed us. Rhode Island went on a 10-0 spurt, and that was ultimately the difference in the game
Rhode Island just has better players, and more experience. Crosby’s continued poor play and Xeryius’ lack of aggressiveness or confidence were the only frustrations
Posted via Mobile Device
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to big jordan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 05:38 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Josh if they got him the ball throughout the season could have had 5 plus games like this one. He should have been a poor man's David West this year
21 turnovers on a team with this little margin for error is a disaster. It puts a lot of pressure on an already bad defense. I see people on here say turnovers aren't a big deal or there's no issues with the offense but I must be watching a different game.
14 threes is an improvement & get Josh 18 shots should be the goal every game
Posted via Mobile Device
|
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to OSU Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 07:05 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Have we improved at all on defense this year?
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-20-2018, 07:16 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 3,329
Thanks: 6,764
Thanked 1,645 Times in 683 Posts
|
|
__________________
Heart Transplant Sept 21, 2018 Amen
Cancer Survivor Amen
|
Mad Props to Tony T 71 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 07:36 PM
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,592
Thanks: 1,838
Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,244 Posts
|
|
I have a question about the 1-3-1(2-3?) zone that UD plays that nobody has answered yet this year and I have asked several times. It obviously starts out as a 1-3-1 but it obviously doesn't stay that or have traditional rotations/assignments. The middle person is often a guard who rotates up after a pass while the point of the zone drops to fill the middle spot. It is obviously meant to be some sort of matchup instead of a traditional corner trapping 1-3-1. Has anybody ever seen another team play it? I've seen all sorts of zones and junk defenses but I just don't recall ever seeing this before. Somebody give me an example of a team who has played.
Also I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just saying it looks really odd.
|
01-20-2018, 07:51 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,099
Thanks: 2,201
Thanked 5,170 Times in 2,285 Posts
|
|
I have actually seen a few other teams play it some this year. As C-time points out, it is not the traditional 1-3-1 that many of us are familiar with. I kind of like it - not as a permanent zone but as a change of pace. In our case, our man-to-man is so bad we have little choice but to play some type of zone.
However, in the way we play it, players are rotating out onto shooters so much and we are closing either late or not under control. Either the shots are open or the offensive player goes around us into the middle of the defense.
We saw what happened when we went man-to-man late in today's game. We got torched for 3 straight dribble drives for buckets and a foul. Sigh - it is what it is.
|
Mad Props to ud69 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 07:59 PM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 111
Thanked 656 Times in 248 Posts
|
|
Omg first time I have ever seen u be critical of UD, maybe u will
Join me now saying AG is average on a good day and UD will never be anything but average under him
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-20-2018, 08:23 PM
|
1st Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 141
Thanks: 3
Thanked 188 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
The zone Dayton plays is, I think, actually a 1-2-2 zone with the point going to the free throw line when the ball goes to the wing. In any case, the zone is poorly executed leaving the wings and corner open. When your tallest guy has to cover the deep corner, that leads to what happened today. URI had 12 offensive rebounds and quite often they were fighting another URI player for that rebound.
UD shot well and Cunningham was most impressive. It is disconcerting to see some UD players debating ( whining?) over who caused a mistake while the game is going on.
|
Mad Props to sabo2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 08:26 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 3,329
Thanks: 6,764
Thanked 1,645 Times in 683 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by udscott
Omg first time I have ever seen u be critical of UD, maybe u will
Join me now saying AG is average on a good day and UD will never be anything but average under him
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Not in your wildest dreams Scotty
There is a big difference being critical of something and being mean spirited calling out 18-21 year olds. I'm giving AG and the team more time than a season to see were the program goes.
__________________
Heart Transplant Sept 21, 2018 Amen
Cancer Survivor Amen
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Tony T 71 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 08:43 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1,602
Thanked 2,810 Times in 1,546 Posts
|
|
Basically, we had three freshmen, along with Josh, Trey, and Darrell trying to compete against a highly athletic team of juniors and seniors with the capability to make a deep run in the NCAA. I don't think anyone could have coached that group up enough to beat that team. I think Coach Grant thought the defense he employed was their best shot at beating this team. I think the key was the 21 turnovers, with 8 being by our only senior. And I know Darrell was just trying to make a play and get to the line, but turnovers were very costly. Big Jordan above referred to Rhode's 10-0 run. He is right; that was the killer. There were several offensive errors that hit the team in that stretch - missed layup by Josh, ill-advised three-ball by Josh that did not draw iron, a turnover by Crutcher, and two by Darrell. That stretch just killed us. Not to mention, Rhode had numerous two and three-shot opportunities on their end. X continued to frustrate the fans. I don't know if I have ever seen a Flyer whose game deteriorated so much over the course of one season. It is sad to watch a young man's game wither as much as his game. Kostas played a good game in general; he just needs to put on muscle so he can eventually be a force in the paint. This was not a coaching loss; this was a loss of experienced athletes having their way on the offensive side of the ball.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to TommyGola For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 08:55 PM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 111
Thanked 656 Times in 248 Posts
|
|
Excuses, Excuses, Excuses
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-20-2018, 10:26 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 1,581
Thanks: 1,360
Thanked 691 Times in 306 Posts
|
|
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-20-2018, 11:09 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 13,586
Thanks: 1,837
Thanked 17,099 Times in 5,101 Posts
|
|
A lack of high hands when opposing shooters take threes is a problem too. Too often we dare guys to shoot. Cant do that at the level we want to get to. Must lock them up so they cant shoot to begin with.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Chris R For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-20-2018, 11:18 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
TommyGola, as usual, you are a voice of reason. Not excusing the poor play. 21 turnovers are too many. But this team just can’t compete with a deep, experienced squad like Rhode Island, because they aren’t a deep, experienced squad. To wit:
-Darrell had 8 turnovers, and while some came on offensive fouls, he also made some boneheaded passes, and didn’t protect the ball on the dribble as well as a Senior should.
-Josh played a great game on offense, but didn’t help the interior defense a whole lot.
-Crosby had 2 assists and no TOs, but didn’t attack enough to make much of a difference on O.
-X, well, he’s just a hot mess all over right now.
And that’s the extent of the contributions from the players who logged anything resembling significant minutes last year, and are active this year. Trey? This is basically his real Freshman year. Mikesell’s hurt. Sam’s gone. And that was our returning nucleus. And yes, after 2/3 of a season, anyone who’s played any significant minutes isn’t a wet-behind-the-ears Freshman any more, but the same can be said for our opponents.
Not excusing poor play. Not saying that progress has met expectations. Just saying that, at our level of competition, experience counts for a lot, and this year we’ve had less experience than most of our opponents. Especially today’s opponent.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-20-2018, 11:38 PM
|
|
Major
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 735
Thanks: 428
Thanked 862 Times in 267 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by udscott
Omg first time I have ever seen u be critical of UD, maybe u will
Join me now saying AG is average on a good day and UD will never be anything but average under him
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Did you get all those red marks when AM took us to 4 straight NCAA invites?
Umm...yes. Your constant "the sky is falling" posts is really getting old
|
6 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Donniex3Era For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 08:43 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,353
Thanks: 5,412
Thanked 9,809 Times in 4,072 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by C-time
I have a question about the 1-3-1(2-3?) zone that UD plays that nobody has answered yet this year and I have asked several times. It obviously starts out as a 1-3-1 but it obviously doesn't stay that or have traditional rotations/assignments. The middle person is often a guard who rotates up after a pass while the point of the zone drops to fill the middle spot. It is obviously meant to be some sort of matchup instead of a traditional corner trapping 1-3-1. Has anybody ever seen another team play it? I've seen all sorts of zones and junk defenses but I just don't recall ever seeing this before. Somebody give me an example of a team who has played.
Also I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just saying it looks really odd.
|
You can have a traditional 1-3-1 where the ball is guarded or a 1-3-1 trap where the ball is guarded and it is trapped in the corners...those are the typical ones that most see.
UD rotates the top and doesn't switch off the ballhandler on a reversal. Whoever is guarding the ball, guards the ball until it is reversed and the "wing" defender rotates back to the top and middle when their wing is void of a offensive player. Traditionally the point defender would pass the offensive player off to the wing and rotate. So in the end your wing and point defenders rotate and the high post and baseline defender stay home and play traditional rotations.
I am no expert on zone D by any means, but this is the 2 cent observation. I think the zone confuses offenses at times which is the goal with a team that isn't that great at half court D. The confusion is supposed to lead to steals and transition buckets which is what they need.
|
01-21-2018, 09:03 AM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Piqua
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 39
Thanked 1,082 Times in 469 Posts
|
|
Plus yesterday, KK agressive offensive play.
Keep it up KK.
|
01-21-2018, 09:24 AM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,855
Thanks: 631
Thanked 894 Times in 435 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Chris R
A lack of high hands when opposing shooters take threes is a problem too. Too often we dare guys to shoot. Cant do that at the level we want to get to. Must lock them up so they cant shoot to begin with.
|
I agree as I observed throughout the game the coaches telling the guys while they were on D to get their hands up.
|
Mad Props to Ready Action For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 09:51 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Miamisburg OH
Posts: 3,711
Thanks: 2,155
Thanked 2,118 Times in 1,054 Posts
|
|
An Enjoyable Loss
The UD- Rhode Island game was one of the most unusual and entertaining losses I have ever watched at the arena. Dayton played with fire the whole game on offense. The introductions foretold what would occur with Rhodey starting 4 seniors and UD two Freshmen. I witnessed one of the greatest all-time performances by a Dayton Flyer with Josh Cunningham scoring 32 points and adding 12 rebounds. They shot 65% from the field against a good defensive team.
But their 21 turnovers and defensive incompetence did them in. I have never seen a more inept Dayton Flyer defensive team and I've had my tickets since they played in the Field House. I have officially thrown in the towel on their willingness to play competent defense.
I hope AG discontinues saying this team thinks defense first or he will be nominated for the Jim O'Brien Fills the Air with Post-Game Nonsense award. This team does not have a clue how to play effective defense. Just listen to what most of the TV analysts say about the Flyers. It appears the coaches have bought into the players belief that the only way to win games in the A-10 is to outscore the opponent. I'm sorry but that belief is fool's gold. It will take rolling up the sleeves and some hard work in practice to learn how to play
man defense. Maybe some ball pressure and half court traps should be tried. I wish the Flyers luck in turning the poor season around but it does not seem likely likely to occur.
Last edited by Alberto Strasse; 01-21-2018 at 10:29 AM..
Reason: spelling
|
01-21-2018, 10:23 AM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 111
Thanked 656 Times in 248 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Donniex3Era
Did you get all those red marks when AM took us to 4 straight NCAA invites?
Umm...yes. Your constant "the sky is falling" posts is really getting old
|
Find a new website then cause your gonna hear it till AG takes us to the NCAA, and based upon his history that's not happening no time soon, 2 trips in 10 years
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 10:25 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,353
Thanks: 5,412
Thanked 9,809 Times in 4,072 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by udscott
Find a new website then cause your gonna hear it till AG takes us to the NCAA, and based upon his history that's not happening no time soon, 2 trips in 10 years
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Since you are in the overwhelming minority of UD "fans" I suggest you find a different means before being labeled a troll and getting a vacation. It may do you good.
|
6 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 10:41 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
The glass is half full. At least we have a decent offensive team to watch. Watching one that plays great defense, but cannot shoot or score, can be not only grating, but boring. Also it is much easier to teach defense than shooting.
I was watching Coach K recently. He was saying he has to play a bunch of zone this year, because with the young guys, there is just not enough time, once the season starts, to work on individual defensive skills necessary for man defense. I doubt few can say Coach K and his staff are bad coaches, who can't coach defense.
|
01-21-2018, 10:42 AM
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,417
Thanks: 65
Thanked 1,558 Times in 941 Posts
|
|
Old?? Sky isn't falling??
Originally Posted by Donniex3Era
Did you get all those red marks when AM took us to 4 straight NCAA invites?
Umm...yes. Your constant "the sky is falling" posts is really getting old
|
It's down! We are now Duquesne and may be soon be Fordham. A losing record overall and in conference. A bottom feeder in the A10, and we could be here for a while. Saddled with a lot of marginal talent, losing perhaps our second best player next year ( and he's overall an average player given his penchant for turnovers) and little help on the horizon.
13k every night, a great school, great facilities. Why should we settle for so many than great players. AG need to clean house.
|
01-21-2018, 11:06 AM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,110
Thanks: 1,953
Thanked 2,457 Times in 1,283 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by maddog07
It's down! We are now Duquesne and may be soon be Fordham. A losing record overall and in conference. A bottom feeder in the A10, and we could be here for a while. Saddled with a lot of marginal talent, losing perhaps our second best player next year ( and he's overall an average player given his penchant for turnovers) and little help on the horizon.
13k every night, a great school, great facilities. Why should we settle for so many than great players. AG need to clean house.
|
So you are saying AM didn't recruit well?
|
01-21-2018, 11:51 AM
|
|
2nd Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 93
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 33 Posts
|
|
Archie Miller absolutely did NOT recruit well the past 3 years. How does he not get more crap for the 4 players he brought in 3 years ago is beyond me. That’s looking like a really big whiff of a class...
Archie’s unwillingness to go after higher ranked recruits and settling for guys is the most disturbing quality he had here and is the main reason we are in the position we are in with lineups and lack of depth. I would be really curious to play the “what if” game to see how this team would look with AM still the head coach. We would have Wright instead of Crutcher & Carter instead of Toppin. Maybe still Sam Miller. Definitely no Cohill coming in next year (bc Archie gave up on him).
Archie was great with what he had and got most out of his guys, but he reached his ceiling with UD bc he gave up trying to go higher.
|
01-21-2018, 11:55 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 3,942
Thanks: 4,069
Thanked 4,285 Times in 1,756 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by UD62
So you are saying AM didn't recruit well?
|
Recruiting at UD has always been a crap shoot. Archie brought in some outstanding players. His batting average was not 100% however.
There were also fate issues. I wonder what this team would be like if Big Steve was on the court and Ryan Mikesell was healthy enough to play. Adding those two to this team's roster would add defense, depth and experience. Might not contend for the A10 title, but would help plug a few holes better.
|
Mad Props to SeasonTicketFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 11:57 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud69
I have actually seen a few other teams play it some this year.
|
Which other teams play this defense?
|
01-21-2018, 12:04 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
So many of the posts in this thread and other threads, sound like people throwing Oliver Purnell under the bus, starting with BG's 2nd season, as a means of explaining all the problems. Maybe then, the coach was the problem.
Do you think that, maybe, just maybe(sarcasm intended), the coach is also the problem now? AM would have a lot better record with this exact roster.
Last edited by ud2; 01-21-2018 at 12:11 PM..
|
01-21-2018, 12:55 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Can't dismiss McKinley Wright or Naz Carter. Trey Landers looks like a find so far in my opinion. Jordan Davis does too
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 01:11 PM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,110
Thanks: 1,953
Thanked 2,457 Times in 1,283 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud2
So many of the posts in this thread and other threads, sound like people throwing Oliver Purnell under the bus, starting with BG's 2nd season, as a means of explaining all the problems. Maybe then, the coach was the problem.
Do you think that, maybe, just maybe(sarcasm intended), the coach is also the problem now? AM would have a lot better record with this exact roster.
|
How AM would have done this year at Dayton is unknowable. What is knowable is that he is struggling at IU. We know he can coach. But as with Dayton, it's all about the Jimmies and Joes. Neither program is really competitive in conference this year. Look for both to improve in the future.
|
Mad Props to UD62 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 01:27 PM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,204
Thanks: 816
Thanked 607 Times in 303 Posts
|
|
I think my only criticism of AG from the game was his lack of calling a timeout when Rhody was on their 10-0 run. With a young team against a seasoned opponent, I am a big fan of using your TOs whenever you feel a run coming on. What good did they do us at the end of the game? Hurley used one right when Dayton made a little run in the 2nd half.
|
01-21-2018, 01:47 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,897
Thanks: 1,341
Thanked 1,302 Times in 674 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Recruiting at UD has always been a crap shoot. Archie brought in some outstanding players. His batting average was not 100% however.
There were also fate issues. I wonder what this team would be like if Big Steve was on the court and Ryan Mikesell was healthy enough to play. Adding those two to this team's roster would add defense, depth and experience. Might not contend for the A10 title, but would help plug a few holes better.
|
But Big Steve, RIP, isn't here and hasn't been for several years. It's long past time he should have been replaced. And I'm looking at everyone extolling the virtues of Mikesell, yet vividly recall a lot of complaining about him. Mikesell is a role player, not a star. A decent roll player for sure. But anyone who thinks AM had a great recruiting class in Crosby, Miller, Mikesell, and Williams is fooling themselves. When you think about what we had and were going to lose, there's no way you replace Pollard, Davis, Scoochie and Cooke with that crew. My personal belief is AM decided to leave long before he actually did and didn't put in the recruiting work he should have, knowing that he would likely be leaving when the Srs graduated. I think he had what he considered decent enough talent coming in that if an opening didn't occur, he could win enough games to keep momentum going.
If AM were here, with his new recruits and the current team, we might be "marginally" ahead of where we are in terms of W/L, but not going to the NCAA tournament. I've been tough on AG, but John Wooden couldn't win with our current team on a consistent basis.
|
Mad Props to TXFlyerFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 01:49 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by UD62
How AM would have done this year at Dayton is unknowable. What is knowable is that he is struggling at IU. We know he can coach. But as with Dayton, it's all about the Jimmies and Joes. Neither program is really competitive in conference this year. Look for both to improve in the future.
|
What he said!
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 02:08 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Some excellent points, TXFlyerFan. I’ve thought for several months that AM put a ton of eggs in the Class of ‘17 basket, with a plan to leverage that success into a P5 gig. And whether that was or wasn’t his plan, that was the outcome.
Now, I’m not a total ingrate. I do appreciate the success we had under AM, and I do wish him well at IU. But in comparing last year’s roster to this year’s roster, there’s no way any sane person can say with a straight face that our record this year should be anywhere near as good as it was last year. Would it be better than it is now? Probably. But last year, after 19 games, we were 15-4. Now, we’re 9-10. What would we be with AM? 11-8, maybe? 12-7? Certainly not 15-4. But we could debate this until the cows come home, and in the end it would prove nothing. AM bought low and sold high. And AG is picking up the pieces, and we’re watching the cleanup.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 02:40 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Agreed it's unknownable how Archie would have done. I don't think anyone believes there wouldn't have been a drop off except maybe a troll.
To say that X Williams, Trey Landers, Kostas, Jordan Davis, Naz Carter & Mckinley Wright are all misses is the height of being disingenuous. Josh Cunningham was brought in here at the expense of a 4 year recruit. AG wasn't dealt a great hand but the Pro AG folks are portraying him as walking into Fordham or Duquesne
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 06:02 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: PHL
Posts: 5,740
Thanks: 2,603
Thanked 2,337 Times in 1,410 Posts
|
|
Interesting to note of the returning players:
Improved: DD, Josh, TL
Regressed: XW, Crosby.
I think DD got a new lease on his basketball life, and TL is taking the next step.
The staff efforts appear to be on the new freshman, and returners who are stepping up.
Don't be surprised to see no Crosby, XW, or (per other thread) JP, next year.
|
Mad Props to Jeff For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 06:39 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
I am not a "process out" players guy, but if what they are saying about Pierce is true, he needs to be gone.
Grant missed his chance to be rid of Crosby, he tried to quit the team and transfer but Grant welcomed him back.
|
01-21-2018, 07:18 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
The fact there's so many PG offers for this year says something
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-21-2018, 07:46 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,642
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 4,578 Times in 2,405 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Jeff
Interesting to note of the returning players:
Improved: DD, Josh, TL
Regressed: XW, Crosby.
I think DD got a new lease on his basketball life, and TL is taking the next step.
The staff efforts appear to be on the new freshman, and returners who are stepping up.
Don't be surprised to see no Crosby, XW, or (per other thread) JP, next year.
|
Crosby regressed? Have you been in a coma the past 3 season?
|
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Smitty10 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 08:49 PM
|
|
Major
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 656
Thanks: 330
Thanked 517 Times in 199 Posts
|
|
I didn’t read all the posts but someone asked what the defense is. It is a “point zone”. I think Paul Hewitt was one of th developers of it. Pretty cool defense but takes a lot of time to learn. Essentially the point or “top” of the zone takes the ball. This is ever switching and takes tons of reps. It is a good defense because it is confusing to the offense to recognize. Lots of matchup zone principles in this defense. Need a lot of speed and length
Posted via Mobile Device
|
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Odrab14 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 08:59 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 140
Thanked 1,145 Times in 598 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
Archie’s unwillingness to go after higher ranked recruits and settling for guys is the most disturbing quality he had here and is the main reason we are in the position we are in with lineups and lack of depth. I would be really curious to play the “what if” game to see how this team would look with AM still the head coach. We would have Wright instead of Crutcher & Carter instead of Toppin. Maybe still Sam Miller. Definitely no Cohill coming in next year (bc Archie gave up on him).
Archie was great with what he had and got most out of his guys, but he reached his ceiling with UD bc he gave up trying to go higher.
|
The narrative that Archie didn't go after higher recruits is overblown. He did but didn't land them.
And if you are being honest with yourself, if Cohill was still viewed as a Top-30 recruit as he was when Archie "gave up" on him, he probably wouldn't be coming here. Archie started back recruiting him after his stock fell, not sure how it would have turned out.
Last edited by bcross; 01-21-2018 at 09:20 PM..
|
Mad Props to bcross For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-21-2018, 11:34 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Crosby regressed? Have you been in a coma the past 3 season?
|
Yeah, Crosby hasn’t regressed, but he certainly hasn’t progressed like Darrell and Trey have (and I have no idea how good a season Josh would have had last year if that injury hadn’t happened). And X, well, “regressed” is an understatement at this point in the season.
Back on Crosby, I noticed a bright spot in his skill set Saturday that I can’t recall seeing out of him previously. Specifically, he generally kept his dribble at or below his waist, and usually between the waist and the knee. His first 2 years here, his dribble was so high that I could have gotten a steal off him. But Saturday, it was as if the ballhandling light bulb finally came on for him. I hope that light stays on.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-22-2018, 09:01 AM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: PHL
Posts: 5,740
Thanks: 2,603
Thanked 2,337 Times in 1,410 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Crosby regressed? Have you been in a coma the past 3 season?
|
I'm fine, thanks for asking.
However you want to categorize the change in Crosby's game, from a purely statistical standpoint, you could support it. Other than Crutcher is out performing him in every category except FT's (a distant 0.040 behind), I suppose there could be a case that this is a breakout effort. Certainly the third year step every coach is looking to see. I'm not in the "pile on JC camp". I wish the kid well. For the program it would be nice to see him play much better. That's what I believe a majority of the board would prefer. After three years investment in him, I don't see progress.
To me his stat's are marginally improved due to duration of court time, not improvement in his game.
|
01-22-2018, 09:07 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 3,227
Thanks: 1,484
Thanked 1,912 Times in 1,082 Posts
|
|
Plain & Simple
The major reasons for the RI loss is .....
Their pluses were exactly opposite our negatives.
Move on to the next game which BTW will try to get us back to .500 ball!
At this rate we should consider that (500 ball) somewhat of a success.
|
Mad Props to NJFlyr71 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-22-2018, 09:14 AM
|
|
2nd Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 93
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 33 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by bcross
The narrative that Archie didn't go after higher recruits is overblown. He did but didn't land them.
And if you are being honest with yourself, if Cohill was still viewed as a Top-30 recruit as he was when Archie "gave up" on him, he probably wouldn't be coming here. Archie started back recruiting him after his stock fell, not sure how it would have turned out.
|
Except that Archie admitted he got tired of losing out on the higher-ranked recruits and effectively "gave up" recruiting them. He admitted to this! I am as big an Archie fan as anyone else, but his apparent giving up on trying to recruit the stars is very concerning. Our coach has to believe we can get big time guys to actually ever get them. To not be appalled by Archie's admittance of giving up on bigger recruits, as a UD fan, is a settling mindset.
McKinley Wright would have been great here, no question. But my point is more that Archie whiffed in a big way on his recruiting classes 2 and 3 years ago and half of the Freshman class and we are paying for it now.
|
01-22-2018, 09:27 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 3,942
Thanks: 4,069
Thanked 4,285 Times in 1,756 Posts
|
|
Jerome Hunter committed to Indiana. Some services list him as the #2 prospect in Ohio. Supposedly, Archie pursued him and had an inside track on him to commit to Dayton before he left.
I don't believe any UD coach quit on trying to recruit. They just got beat out at the end too often by bigger more glittery names. AJ Harris is a great example. UD worked him hard and Ohio State swooped in last minute and signed him.
|
01-22-2018, 09:27 AM
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,817
Thanks: 2,633
Thanked 2,700 Times in 1,283 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Yeah, Crosby hasn’t regressed, but he certainly hasn’t progressed like Darrell and Trey have (and I have no idea how good a season Josh would have had last year if that injury hadn’t happened). And X, well, “regressed” is an understatement at this point in the season.
Back on Crosby, I noticed a bright spot in his skill set Saturday that I can’t recall seeing out of him previously. Specifically, he generally kept his dribble at or below his waist, and usually between the waist and the knee. His first 2 years here, his dribble was so high that I could have gotten a steal off him. But Saturday, it was as if the ballhandling light bulb finally came on for him. I hope that light stays on.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Wow, that's great! JC has now progressed to a 4th grade dribbling level!
Coming next week: JC learns to NOT leave his feet prior to knowing where he's going to pass the ball!
|
01-22-2018, 09:33 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 3,227
Thanks: 1,484
Thanked 1,912 Times in 1,082 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
Except that Archie admitted he got tired of losing out on the higher-ranked recruits and effectively "gave up" recruiting them.
...
McKinley Wright would have been great here, no question. But my point is more that Archie whiffed in a big way on his recruiting classes 2 and 3 years ago and half of the Freshman class and we are paying for it now.
|
Looking back it seemed that the last couple years AM didn't always have his focus on the recruits that he brought in .... one would have thought that after the E8 and the next 2 NCAA's seasons better would have been seen ...
Some of the players he did bring in he seemed to sour on some of them such as TL, JC, SM and once in his dog house it impacted the players game.
Example look how TL plays this year and although not by any means perfect, JC has shown some moments and seems to be settling in. I place that on the new coach. Sam Miller? .... he had other problems as we all saw.
Did AM get players to play to their collective strength? Yes! Did he pull some miracles when that was needed? Yes!
I just thought that his latter recruitment classes were not much better than C+ especially based on the NCAA runs under his belt.
|
01-22-2018, 09:43 AM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 140
Thanked 1,145 Times in 598 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
Except that Archie admitted he got tired of losing out on the higher-ranked recruits and effectively "gave up" recruiting them. He admitted to this! I am as big an Archie fan as anyone else, but his apparent giving up on trying to recruit the stars is very concerning. Our coach has to believe we can get big time guys to actually ever get them. To not be appalled by Archie's admittance of giving up on bigger recruits, as a UD fan, is a settling mindset.
McKinley Wright would have been great here, no question. But my point is more that Archie whiffed in a big way on his recruiting classes 2 and 3 years ago and half of the Freshman class and we are paying for it now.
|
Do you have a link to where Archie admitted to getting tired of losing out on higher-recruits and giving up on them? I've only seen the comments from Cohill about how Archie stopped recruiting him his freshman year.
Last edited by bcross; 01-22-2018 at 09:47 AM..
|
01-22-2018, 10:22 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
Except that Archie admitted he got tired of losing out on the higher-ranked recruits and effectively "gave up" recruiting them. He admitted to this! I am as big an Archie fan as anyone else, but his apparent giving up on trying to recruit the stars is very concerning. Our coach has to believe we can get big time guys to actually ever get them. To not be appalled by Archie's admittance of giving up on bigger recruits, as a UD fan, is a settling mindset.
McKinley Wright would have been great here, no question. But my point is more that Archie whiffed in a big way on his recruiting classes 2 and 3 years ago and half of the Freshman class and we are paying for it now.
|
This entire post is utter nonsense.
Last edited by ud2; 01-22-2018 at 10:30 AM..
|
01-22-2018, 11:17 AM
|
|
2nd Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 93
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 33 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by bcross
Do you have a link to where Archie admitted to getting tired of losing out on higher-recruits and giving up on them? I've only seen the comments from Cohill about how Archie stopped recruiting him his freshman year.
|
https://www.google.com/amp/www.mydaytondailynews.com/sports/tom-archdeacon-behind-the-scenes-archie-miller-road-indiana/FVTuIsT8BNtcjAK7imjpUM/amp.html
I’m combining this with Archie telling Cohill he was too “big time” for UD to connect the dots of Archie giving up on big recruits. And UD eventually getting Cohill just proves his defeatist attitude is unacceptable for a UD coach. I understand how frustrating it is to lose out on guys to bigger programs but you can’t give up before trying
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-22-2018, 11:41 AM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 140
Thanked 1,145 Times in 598 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
https://www.google.com/amp/www.mydaytondailynews.com/sports/tom-archdeacon-behind-the-scenes-archie-miller-road-indiana/FVTuIsT8BNtcjAK7imjpUM/amp.html
I’m combining this with Archie telling Cohill he was too “big time” for UD to connect the dots of Archie giving up on big recruits. And UD eventually getting Cohill just proves his defeatist attitude is unacceptable for a UD coach. I understand how frustrating it is to lose out on guys to bigger programs but you can’t give up before trying
Posted via Mobile Device
|
In other words, you made it up. Got it.
Cohill was ranked similar in the similar 100-125 range as Scoochie, Kyle, Darrell, Kostas, and even Jevon Thomas if you want to include him when they committed to Dayton. Cohill isn't proof of anything.
|
01-22-2018, 02:49 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
Looking back it seemed that the last couple years AM didn't always have his focus on the recruits that he brought in .... one would have thought that after the E8 and the next 2 NCAA's seasons better would have been seen ...
Some of the players he did bring in he seemed to sour on some of them such as TL, JC, SM and once in his dog house it impacted the players game.
Example look how TL plays this year and although not by any means perfect, JC has shown some moments and seems to be settling in. I place that on the new coach. Sam Miller? .... he had other problems as we all saw.
Did AM get players to play to their collective strength? Yes! Did he pull some miracles when that was needed? Yes!
I just thought that his latter recruitment classes were not much better than C+ especially based on the NCAA runs under his belt.
|
Trey Landers had a sports hernia last year and had seniors in front of him. I think that's more a situation caused by injury and depth ahead of him versus souring
Posted via Mobile Device
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to OSU Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-22-2018, 11:28 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Radar
Wow, that's great! JC has now progressed to a 4th grade dribbling level!
Coming next week: JC learns to NOT leave his feet prior to knowing where he's going to pass the ball!
|
Thanks for shooting the messenger. Remember, I’m not the one who recruited Crosby. I was simply pointing out that (yes, as a Junior in college, playing mid-to-upper D-I ball), he FINALLY seemed to get it in his head that he can’t dribble like a 4th Grader on the playground and expect to get away with it.
Why did it take that long? He!!, I don’t know! Why don’t you ask Crosby? Or Anthony? Or Archie? And maybe, if you get that question answered, you can ask about leaving his feet with the ball but no plan for what to do with it (and yes, that frustrates the he!! out of me, too).
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-23-2018, 07:32 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,353
Thanks: 5,412
Thanked 9,809 Times in 4,072 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Trey Landers had a sports hernia last year and had seniors in front of him. I think that's more a situation caused by injury and depth ahead of him versus souring
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Anyone who paid attention last year could tell that Landers had it in him. It was a perfect storm of why you didn't see more out of him last year.
Injury. Not up to speed on defense which was evidenced by defensive miscues in the minutes he played early on. Depth on the team? Who was he going to steal minutes from? Freshman.
His effort and athletic ability was there for everyone to see. You were getting the TL you see this year no matter who the coach is/was this season.
|
01-23-2018, 10:20 AM
|
|
2nd Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 93
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 33 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by bcross
In other words, you made it up. Got it.
Cohill was ranked similar in the similar 100-125 range as Scoochie, Kyle, Darrell, Kostas, and even Jevon Thomas if you want to include him when they committed to Dayton. Cohill isn't proof of anything.
|
Feel free not to be concerned about the trend Archie was heading regarding recruiting. I sure was. You can call it an outlier if you want. I am just connecting the dots of what Archie's own Dad and a recent recruit said on his recruiting...
In my view, Grant and his staff have re-energized our recruiting process. That's my takeaway at least. Just look at them actually going after a guy like Anfernee Simons
|
01-23-2018, 10:44 AM
|
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,108
Thanks: 954
Thanked 1,749 Times in 791 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Trey Landers had a sports hernia last year and had seniors in front of him. I think that's more a situation caused by injury and depth ahead of him versus souring
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Wait a minute now. I thought we weren't allowed to offer up realities/facts on this board without being accused of making excuses and blindly thinking all is 100% perfect.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-23-2018, 11:07 AM
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,417
Thanks: 65
Thanked 1,558 Times in 941 Posts
|
|
Trey is at best an average player. Not a good shooter or slasher. Fair at rebounding and D. Too small to play inside, too slow to play outside. If we had any talent he would make a fine substitute instead of a starter on a losing team. Despite all his hustle and effort he's never going to be what we need to get back to championship level.
|
Mad Props to maddog07 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-23-2018, 11:10 AM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 140
Thanked 1,145 Times in 598 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 116 Chambers
Feel free not to be concerned about the trend Archie was heading regarding recruiting. I sure was. You can call it an outlier if you want. I am just connecting the dots of what Archie's own Dad and a recent recruit said on his recruiting...
In my view, Grant and his staff have re-energized our recruiting process. That's my takeaway at least. Just look at them actually going after a guy like Anfernee Simons
|
You said Archie admitted to it. He did not. John's comments echo what us fans have felt as well over the years. I think you are reading way too much into that.
When I look into your claims, I just don't see it. Just looking back to his final class, before Archie "settled" on Naz Carter, he had the following guys in to visit before the ultimately chose elsewhere:
#58 Darryl Morsell-Maryland
#127 Keith Williams-Cincinnati
#188 Anthony Gaines-Northwestern
But "big-time" recruits like #123 Dwayne Cohill he stayed away from? He was still recruiting #60 Jerome Hunter in that same class and even got back involved with Cohill before leaving for Indiana. The evidence just isn't there.
If Grant's recruiting is better than Archie's, the results will speak for themselves. There's no reason to be disingenuous about Archie's efforts. Recruiting a top 10 kid from Florida is one thing, getting him to chose UD over the NBA is another.
|
01-23-2018, 11:24 AM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,252
Thanks: 2,335
Thanked 3,904 Times in 2,143 Posts
|
|
Great post BCross
We were in it with Morsell to the very end with his home state school
As cool as sounds to recruit someone like Anfernee Simmons, that's time & effort pulled away from a recruit we can actually land.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
01-23-2018, 12:06 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dayton, Oh
Posts: 1,525
Thanks: 732
Thanked 865 Times in 479 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by maddog07
Trey is at best an average player. Not a good shooter or slasher. Fair at rebounding and D. Too small to play inside, too slow to play outside. If we had any talent he would make a fine substitute instead of a starter on a losing team. Despite all his hustle and effort he's never going to be what we need to get back to championship level.
|
If the only way to win is to have the absolute best players on the floor, then why don't Kentucky, UNC or Duke win every single year? Why did we knock OSU, 'Cuse, etc out of the Dance? Why did we take UNC out of the NIT championships? You mean to tell me we had superior players? Probably not in any single position. We outplayed them.
In many cases, I'll take hustle, heart and hard-nosed attitude over talent. That is what wins games.
|
Mad Props to pmcmullen For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-23-2018, 12:21 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,616
Thanks: 3,383
Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,418 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by pmcmullen
If the only way to win is to have the absolute best players on the floor, then why don't Kentucky, UNC or Duke win every single year? Why did we knock OSU, 'Cuse, etc out of the Dance? Why did we take UNC out of the NIT championships? You mean to tell me we had superior players? Probably not in any single position. We outplayed them.
In many cases, I'll take hustle, heart and hard-nosed attitude over talent. That is what wins games.
|
I'd take talent 10 times out of 10. More often then not talent wins out.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to m21eagle45 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-23-2018, 02:39 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,776
Thanks: 1,174
Thanked 3,138 Times in 795 Posts
|
|
I know this might sound crazy, how about talent and hustle?
For whatever reason this team as a whole does not want to put in the effort on the defensive end. We can argue all we want but the stats are there that says we are not good defensively. Certainly the eye test is there also. There is little help defense matter if it is 5th grade CYO or Div I basketball, defense is all about heart. Maybe these guys just don't have it. Maybe Grant isn't getting defensive strategies across to them. All I know, we lose because we only like to play offense. That hasn't seemed to change at all during the year.
All I know is that when I watch games I don't feel like we can win especially when we hit a bunch of 3s to start the game (VCU is the exception). We get too comfortable to sit back and watch the action. I just don't get it. I can't imaging the thrill of playing in front of 13,000 fans that are just waiting for me to be good. Must be that millennial thing. They just want a participation trophy.
|
Mad Props to John C. For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
01-23-2018, 09:44 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dayton, Oh
Posts: 1,525
Thanks: 732
Thanked 865 Times in 479 Posts
|
|
How about that mid-talent, big-heart player, Trey Landers? He got it done tonight!
I still say I'll pass on a player that's all talent and limited heart. And! I'll also pass on any player that's not a team player in favor of someone that is. See Kyle Davis vs. that Staten kid we all once knew.
No heart and no team mentality, no interest despite any other attributes.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to pmcmullen For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|