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  #801  
Old 05-19-2018, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
We can talk about it until we're blue in the face but until I see the administration putting it's power to use, it doesn't do any good. They either need to force the A10 to improve or leave. I don't know how that gets done, but there are people who are paid to figure that stuff out.
Exactly how would UD force the A10 to improve? and as far as leaving, where would we go? Easy to armchair, hard to do. Best brains at the school are working on it.

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  #802  
Old 05-19-2018, 08:41 PM
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The A10 getting a clue in putting together their H/Hs for a conference would go a long way towards strengthening the top and bottom of the league.

Who thought it would be a good idea to make Rhode Island play La Salle H/H in conference this year?

It's almost like they're intentionally undermining the conference
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  #803  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The A10 getting a clue in putting together their H/Hs for a conference would go a long way towards strengthening the top and bottom of the league.

Who thought it would be a good idea to make Rhode Island play La Salle H/H in conference this year?

It's almost like they're intentionally undermining the conference
Mean while the AAC went out of there way to make sure UC and WSU only played USF, ECU and Tulane once. These being the bottom of the barrel in the conference. This contributed to the schools getting a 2 seed and a 4 seed respectfully. Does anyone think that UC and WSU would have gotten those high seeds if they played these schools twice?
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  #804  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:12 PM
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If a team has a designated rival that they play every year like VCU-Richmond, Dayton-STl, UMass-URI, etc I'm fine with that

I also understand there's an interest between the Virginia schools, GW and Davidson playing each other because it's a bus ride.

This year if St. Bonaventure doesn't beat Rhode Island at home, they don't make the tourney. Luckily the league had URI & SBU play twice. If they had they had the top 2 teams in the league play once like they did with Dayton & VCU Scoochie's junior year that's potentially a tourney bid gone and millions of dollars lost for the league

The Bonnies which were by every account I read last preseason the #2 team in the league in the preseason playing Duquesne twice this year. URI played La Salle twice this year. Look I get preseason rankings don't always hold but no one who follows the A10 believed either of those teams would be anything but RPI hits last season.

It is not that hard for the league to look at the H/H pairings and say Fordham, La Salle, Duquesne, maybe this year with a new coach GW are going to bring up the rear of the league. We need to protect the top of the conference and have the bottom teams play the other projected bottom feeders

Bona was in the last 4 in this year (probably unjustly), Dayton was in the last 4 in (unjustly) several years ago. This league doesn't have a big margin of error. One poorly scheduled H/H matchup in league play is potentially a multi-million dollar mistake

Dayton can't make Fordham build a practice facility, show up at games or invest in the basketball program. The easiest most rational thing the A10 can do ensure the success of everyone 1-14 in this league, scheduling, it can't even get right
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  #805  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Exactly how would UD force the A10 to improve? and as far as leaving, where would we go? Easy to armchair, hard to do. Best brains at the school are working on it.
I think that's basically what I said

As for how would they force it? Well, if UD, VCU, St Bonny, and another school put their weight together, they could force some changes in scheduling to start with. And if the league feared UD and VCU leaving, they would probably up their game a bit. But none of that seems to be happening. Clearly, we're not privy to much, if anything, that goes on in that arena, but you'd think we'd at least hear rumors if there was something going on. If you never demand more, you're never going to get more. UD should be demanding more and if they can't get it here, then find a way to get it somewhere else.
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  #806  
Old 05-20-2018, 01:08 AM
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I think the issue is that Dayton doesn't have the leverage by itself to force changes. Gonzaga based on their status was able to get the WCC to bend over backwards to accommodate them.

Does anyone else care enough to force changes? What Dayton, SLU and VCU aspire to be as programs I think is out of line with what most the league wants. There's no Gonzaga like heavyweight that can pull the league in its direction with the threat of leaving. I'm not sure a handful of schools have enough leverage to force the league to do anything
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  #807  
Old 05-20-2018, 01:25 AM
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You may not care now and think the A10 is fine but I think there's a good chance one day soon you will be made to care about the A10 when a Dayton team like the one in 2015 ends up on the wrong side of the bubble
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  #808  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:50 AM
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Dayton has no leverage on the A10. If the members of the A10 cared they'd already be trying. If Dayton leaves there are very few schools who it'll make a real impact.
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  #809  
Old 05-20-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The A10 getting a clue in putting together their H/Hs for a conference would go a long way towards strengthening the top and bottom of the league.

Who thought it would be a good idea to make Rhode Island play La Salle H/H in conference this year?

It's almost like they're intentionally undermining the conference
Are you saying the projected top teams should all play h/hs? I am not so sure everyone would agree with that. With the double bye in the A10 at stake, teams may not want to take the chance of the top teams beating up on each other and allowing one of the mediocre teams, playing an easier schedule, to grab one of the top spots. You may be right that the league is dictating the schedule but the teams may be weighing in more than you think.
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  #810  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:51 PM
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Some food for thought in regards to potentially joining the AAC:

The AAC has an 10 million entry fee to join. Would UD be willing to pay this fee under current circumstances?

The current TV contract for the AAC is about 2 million per year, per member. This is compared to 200K (Not positive on this number) per year, per member for the A-10. However, basketball members make only 30% of a share in regards TV contract revenue.

The negotiation positions for the A10 and AAC are completely different over the next 2 years. The last time the A10 negotiated a TV deal, we had Temple, X, and Butler in the wings. We don't have these schools this time around. George Mason and Davidson don't replace these schools. This is while when the AAC negotiated its deal, no one would know if the conference would last long term so TV low balled their deal. Currently people are estimating the new AAC deal would be worth 6-8 million per year per member in 2020.

The aforementioned better visibility the AAC provides. Pure speculation on my part, but it would not shock me if ESPN has the AAC some of the A10 to help with their declining profit margin.
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  #811  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:01 PM
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The pod system is okay for the A10, but I really think it would be a more interesting and inspired league if they had an upper and lower tier league using a relegation/promotion scheme. Each tier plays home and away, and 6 of the 7 other tier (3H/3A) for 18 games. In order to move up, the team would have to win the tier and maybe several teams could move up based on their record against the better tier, or not at all if they failed to have a winning .500 or winning record against the higher tier. The lower tier could have a knock out season and still get a bid, but it would be easier for the top of the top tier to boost their schedule strength and could result in an additional bid for a bubble team.

It would make for some spirited games. This would also take away the bias in week pods inflating records for a higher finish in the league. So say teams that had a better percentage against the top tier than the teams in the top tier would be eligible for promotion, so if two teams in the lower tier dominate the lower tier, and have a .500 or better record against the top tier, they both would be eligible for promotion, and the teams with a loosing record against and in the top tier, may get relegated. So we would have to accept the fact the UD might have gotten relegated this year, but a lesser team would have had to prove themselves worthy.

There are flaws to this, but I think it brings about good competition and generally will protect the more consistent programs in the A10 without closing the door on any of the members to having a great year and possibly making the tournament.
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  #812  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Are you saying the projected top teams should all play h/hs? I am not so sure everyone would agree with that. With the double bye in the A10 at stake, teams may not want to take the chance of the top teams beating up on each other and allowing one of the mediocre teams, playing an easier schedule, to grab one of the top spots. You may be right that the league is dictating the schedule but the teams may be weighing in more than you think.
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I would think for RPI, NCAA at large/seeding purposes and TV teams would want to face the best possible pod in terms of teams. I'm not sure what degree individual schools have on the process of teams they play for pods

Originally Posted by Dillomernda View Post
Some food for thought in regards to potentially joining the AAC:

The AAC has an 10 million entry fee to join. Would UD be willing to pay this fee under current circumstances?

The current TV contract for the AAC is about 2 million per year, per member. This is compared to 200K (Not positive on this number) per year, per member for the A-10. However, basketball members make only 30% of a share in regards TV contract revenue.

The negotiation positions for the A10 and AAC are completely different over the next 2 years. The last time the A10 negotiated a TV deal, we had Temple, X, and Butler in the wings. We don't have these schools this time around. George Mason and Davidson don't replace these schools. This is while when the AAC negotiated its deal, no one would know if the conference would last long term so TV low balled their deal. Currently people are estimating the new AAC deal would be worth 6-8 million per year per member in 2020.

The aforementioned better visibility the AAC provides. Pure speculation on my part, but it would not shock me if ESPN has the AAC some of the A10 to help with their declining profit margin.
The TV money Wichita gets is lower than than a full member with a football team. I'd assume the potential buy in is different for a basketball only school
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  #813  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:58 PM
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Not alone....

Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Dayton has no leverage on the A10. If the members of the A10 cared they'd already be trying. If Dayton leaves there are very few schools who it'll make a real impact.
Perhaps Dayton has little or no leverage acting alone. But teamed with three, or so, other dissatisfied schools that have aspirations similar to UD's would be a different story. This is politics. If three or four of the top schools took the initiative and were able to pull in another half dozen fence-sitters so as to have an effective voting block, I think the bottom feeders could be pressured.

Re politics again: A conference commissioner matters and can be influenced by the influential schools that push for change. The AAC's Mike Aresco is front and center 100% of the time pushing the AAC agenda. The AAC might not succeed in becoming the "Power 6" conference....but it won't be for lack of effort.

In my opinion, the A10 should work,...not to just get along, but....to become the best non-FB basketball conference in the country. That is not an unreasonable goal. It's doable. But not the way the A10 is loafing along. I think UD has a responsibility to work this issue. I don't see it happening.
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  #814  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:21 PM
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You dont leave the A10 with the intent of ever returning to the A10. Some of the talk about the A10 being a landing spot of the AAC flopped is ridiculous. With the exit penalties and re-entrance fees, lost NCAA credits, etc, etc, it is a fortune to hopscotch conferences -- especially when major D-I football cannot make millions seem like a day's pay.

If Im the A10 Commissioner and UD leaves, there is no re-admittance. That goes for anyone. Im not going to be treated like a door mat. I have my own league brand and reputation and scruples to protect.

As far as A10 Pods, UD requests the toughest pods every year and in most seasons we get them. Sloo is always in our pod b/c of geography. We got VCU twice, URI twice. Jeez. What more do you want.

I know UD has been attempting to use their RPI/SOS scheduling prowess to help instruct other schools how to schedule better to elevate the league within the league once conference play starts. Too many A10 schools still arent great at playing the math game.
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  #815  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
You dont leave the A10 with the intent of ever returning to the A10. Some of the talk about the A10 being a landing spot of the AAC flopped is ridiculous. With the exit penalties and re-entrance fees, lost NCAA credits, etc, etc, it is a fortune to hopscotch conferences -- especially when major D-I football cannot make millions seem like a day's pay.

If Im the A10 Commissioner and UD leaves, there is no re-admittance. That goes for anyone. Im not going to be treated like a door mat. I have my own league brand and reputation and scruples to protect.

As far as A10 Pods, UD requests the toughest pods every year and in most seasons we get them. Sloo is always in our pod b/c of geography. We got VCU twice, URI twice. Jeez. What more do you want.

I know UD has been attempting to use their RPI/SOS scheduling prowess to help instruct other schools how to schedule better to elevate the league within the league once conference play starts. Too many A10 schools still arent great at playing the math game.
Great to see a little common sense enter this thread.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:34 AM
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The strength of the A10 from a basketball perspective is largely dependent on the university presidents and what they are willing to spend. If the shareholders (alumni + donors) are not interested in demanding or funding improvements that lead to success, they will not happen. If A10 schools each get only $200k in TV revenue, that's little more than a rounding error in your entire athletic budget and by itself is not going to facilitate any change.

As for us demanding change, would we want to belong to a league that's direction is driven by 1 or 2 teams? Probably not. UD is striving to increase it's success in Athletics and league membership for each of it's teams and I am 100% in agreement with that direction, but unfortunately, the one piece that is missing is consistent men's basketball prowess/domination. Every other box is checked.

Our A10 men's basketball resume looks like this:
23- years of membership
1- Conference Tournament Championship (at home)
2- Regular Season Championships
8- NCAA appearances
5- One and done NCAA appearances
(1- NIT National Championship - does this matter?)
Is the combination of every other box checked, enough to get us into a more elite conference? The answer is no.

Hopefully, AG can get us over the hump and get us where we want to be, in the conference we want to be in - so we can stop relying on being know as "the most prolific NCAA Tournament venue in the world."

Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If I'm the A10 Commissioner and UD leaves, there is no re-admittance. That goes for anyone. Im not going to be treated like a door mat. I have my own league brand and reputation and scruples to protect.
I agree with your premise, but at the end of the day, if Zavier, Butler, Penn State, West Virginia, Temple, etc. wanted back in the A10, I think they would be allowed back in.

Side note - someone eluded that LaSalle was selling it's artwork to keep the doors open. LaSalle is the only school in the A10 to field a team in every men's and women's sport. Interesting . . .
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  #817  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:34 AM
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Very interesting posts....

Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
The strength of the A10 from a basketball perspective is largely dependent on the university presidents and what they are willing to spend. If the shareholders (alumni + donors) are not interested in demanding or funding improvements that lead to success, they will not happen. If A10 schools each get only $200k in TV revenue, that's little more than a rounding error in your entire athletic budget and by itself is not going to facilitate any change.

As for us demanding change, would we want to belong to a league that's direction is driven by 1 or 2 teams? Probably not. UD is striving to increase it's success in Athletics and league membership for each of it's teams and I am 100% in agreement with that direction, but unfortunately, the one piece that is missing is consistent men's basketball prowess/domination. Every other box is checked.

Our A10 men's basketball resume looks like this:
23- years of membership
1- Conference Tournament Championship (at home)
2- Regular Season Championships
8- NCAA appearances
5- One and done NCAA appearances
(1- NIT National Championship - does this matter?)
Is the combination of every other box checked, enough to get us into a more elite conference? The answer is no.

Hopefully, AG can get us over the hump and get us where we want to be, in the conference we want to be in - so we can stop relying on being know as "the most prolific NCAA Tournament venue in the world."


I agree with your premise, but at the end of the day, if Zavier, Butler, Penn State, West Virginia, Temple, etc. wanted back in the A10, I think they would be allowed back in.

Side note - someone eluded that LaSalle was selling it's artwork to keep the doors open. LaSalle is the only school in the A10 to field a team in every men's and women's sport. Interesting . . .
Really worth reflecting on the content of these posts...I think.

Re UD's history and role in the A10: When it comes to facilities, especially BB, and BB fan support, absolutely incredible, we are in a class by ourselves. But when it comes to BB performance we have been pretty much just another player in the A10....holding our own, for sure, but dominating the conference? Not even close.

Our hand would be a lot stronger if we made the NCAAs ~ 15 times in our 23 years, advanced to at least the Sweet 16 7-8 times, won a half dozen conference championships, etc. The fact is our aspirations have far exceeded our performance. We're sorta wannabes Miller started to change that. Hopefully Grant can restart the process. Sustainability over coaching changes is a "must" to get where we want to be.

As for influencing the direction of the A10, we don't have the clout to go it alone. But if three or four other top programs having aspirations similar to ours are not satisfied with the strategic goals of the conference, banding together to force change is definitely a possibility, in my opinion. But such a movement requires a leader, an instigator. I believe UD has sufficient ability and influence to lead such a movement....but only if we can "seduce" a few solid partners to work with us. And it is worth noting that the school presidents steer the boat, not the ADs. Perhaps Neil should be working on Spina....reminding him of the Arena investment.
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  #818  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:54 AM
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The A10 is not preventing men's basketball from reaching the post-season. We may be able to quibble about how it affects recruiting, exposure et al, but it's a multi-bid league and history has shown that if you do well in and out of conference you have a very good chance of getting an at-large. The A10 isn't the WCC or MVC.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
As far as A10 Pods, UD requests the toughest pods every year and in most seasons we get them. Sloo is always in our pod b/c of geography. We got VCU twice, URI twice. Jeez. What more do you want.
We're in a pod with Duquesne every year which has been historically the second worst program in the A10 this century.

The 14-15 season where Dayton was the last team in the field, the Pod was Fordham, La Salle, Duquense, Bona and St Louis (who finished 3-15 & last in the A10). Despite going 10-2 in OOC against 5 power 5 teams & nationally ranked UConn team and 13-5 in A10 play. Pod that year nearly cost UD an at large bid

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...2168/year/2015

Rhode Island the clear front runner going into last season played La Salle H/H twice.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
The A10 is not preventing men's basketball from reaching the post-season. We may be able to quibble about how it affects recruiting, exposure et al, but it's a multi-bid league and history has shown that if you do well in and out of conference you have a very good chance of getting an at-large. The A10 isn't the WCC or MVC.
Past performance isn't a guarantee of future of results. The greater trend in college basketball for fewer at large bids for non P5/Big East schools might not have trickled down to the A10 yet but the trends aren't encouraging for schools outside the power conferences


Efforts by major conferences to play more conference games will only hurt mid-major schools that are eager to earn at-large bids to the NCAA Tournament.

“Moving to 20 league games is going to change the entire model,” one Big Ten athletic director told FanRag Sports. “They want to wipe out the non-Power 5 schools from getting at-large bids completely. Moving to 20 games makes that more of a realistic possibility.

https://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/20...games-st-johns

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Old 05-21-2018, 12:00 PM
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I agree A10 needs to give the top preseason team the best possible pod every year. The main reason is seeding in the NCAA tourney. Over the past 3-4 years, it seems like the highest an A-10 team has been seeded is 7. Higher seeded teams (outside of the 8-9 seeds) have a better chance to win multiple games in tourney...
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:15 PM
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OSUFlyer - that link is working. I'd be interested to find out more specifically to whom "they" is referring.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Past performance isn't a guarantee of future of results. The greater trend in college basketball for fewer at large bids for non P5/Big East schools might not have trickled down to the A10 yet but the trends aren't encouraging for schools outside the power conferences


Efforts by major conferences to play more conference games will only hurt mid-major schools that are eager to earn at-large bids to the NCAA Tournament.

“Moving to 20 league games is going to change the entire model,” one Big Ten athletic director told FanRag Sports. “They want to wipe out the non-Power 5 schools from getting at-large bids completely. Moving to 20 games makes that more of a realistic possibility.

https://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/20...games-st-johns
How about the A10 goes back to just 16 league games? Like the WCC. Less exposure to Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, etc. Lol.
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:22 PM
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So supporting not going is because probably more than 1/2 of the AAC is looking to go elsewhere from a conference hopping standpoint? And if we leave the A10, UD wouldn't be readmitted?

So let's look at each scenario...I don't doubt that over 1/2 the AAC would like to be in a Power 5 football driven league but that's simply not happening. UCF & USF are the best football schools with their ability to recruit Florida and you can lump Cincy, Houston,Tulsa & Memphis in a next tier followed by SMU, UCONN and Temple. All of those schools aren't being invited somewhere else.

re: being readmitted to A10...I would only support going to AAC with VCU so if things change we have VCU, Wichita St and UD to build something from probably Temple & Tulsa as well for sure along with Tulane that's better starting place than the A10.

In addition joining AAC while UC is still present blows Xavier's Big East objection "it's the same TV market (LOL)" up. You don't think someone around the Big East conference table would say if UD and UC were in the same hoops league for 3-5 years..."why didn't UC think it was the same TV market and object to UD being added to AAC"?

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Old 05-21-2018, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by oRed View Post
So supporting not going is because probably more than 1/2 of the AAC is looking to go elsewhere from a conference hopping standpoint? And if we leave the A10, UD wouldn't be readmitted?

So let's look at each scenario...I don't doubt that over 1/2 the AAC would like to be in a Power 5 football driven league but that's simply not happening. UCF & USF are the best football schools with their ability to recruit Florida and you can lump Cincy, Houston,Tulsa & Memphis in a next tier followed by SMU, UCONN and Temple. All of those schools aren't being invited somewhere else.

re: being readmitted to A10...I would only support going to AAC with VCU so if things change we have VCU, Wichita St and UD to build something from probably Temple & Tulsa as well for sure along with Tulane that's better starting place than the A10.

In addition joining AAC while UC is still present blows Xavier's Big East objection "it's the same TV market (LOL)" up. You don't think someone around the Big East conference table would say if UD and UC were in the same hoops league for 3-5 years..."why didn't UC think it was the same TV market and object to UD being added to AAC"?
Some thoughts

The A10 has not been a limited factor for UD to date. If we win games we get in the NCAA tourney. There are lots and lots of worse places to be. However, the lack of significant games in the non-con as well as in conference is worrying and is going to get worse. It's not hard to see a future where it becomes harder for UD to even get chances at the types of games they'll need for at large bids.

I think getting UD, VCU and Wichita St connected in a conference is the beginning of a pretty good plan B in the event the of a move to the AAC and the subsequent falling apart of the AAC. That's a strong bball foundation that could be ported or built around.

Assume anyone that is anyone in AAC football leaves. UConn, UC, USF, UCF, Houston, Tulsa gone. That would still leave Temple, Memphis, SMU. Still a pretty good top 6 with UD/VCU/WS. A gutted AAC could still attract other schools who are looking to move a step up in football. Someone like Old Dominion, who would be a nice get for the current A10, but would never come because of football. Or CUSA members. Not ideal, but worse than the A10? I don't think so.

Or Dayton/VCU/WS could try and join/rejoin the A10. Would the the A10 refuse that? Maybe, but it would be based on pure spite and would totally ignore an opportunity to improve massively.

Or Dayton/VCU/WS could poach the A10's top teams and maybe some others from MVC, etc. Dayton, VCU, WS, SLU, RI, Richmond, Northern Iowa, Ill St is strong top 8 with some decent options to get to 10 for a round robin.

The only real loser situation I can think of is the AAC implodes and in that moment the Big East decides to grab VCU and WS leaving us in the cold and the A10 refuses to let us back in.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
OSUFlyer - that link is working. I'd be interested to find out more specifically to whom "they" is referring.
https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2017/11...sion-2018-2019

https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...caa-tournament

The original article is from Fanrag Sports and Jon Rothstein but the link is dead. Other blogs have exerts.

They from my reading is the power conferences
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:18 PM
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Wallage, from an article in the Omaha paper I posted earlier in this thread from the Creighton AD, Wichita was a non starter for expansion for the Big East, the support wasn't there for them. He had been out there to tour the facilities and this was from his mouth in the paper of record in Nebraska so I'm assuming there was some serious consideration

I take that to mean that a public school is off the table for the Big East because they have everything else the Big East would want basketball wise.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:30 PM
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IMO it's far more likely that the A-10 continues to sink vs. the AAC losing members to power 5 conferences. It seems that the Big 12 has stabilized thanks to the looney rule that a 10-team conference with no divisions can have a money grab (aka "title" game) at the end of the season. The A-10 raided leagues like the CAA and Southern and now looks more like the CAA or Southern. This year the Conf RPI sank to 11 just behind the mighty Mid-American Conference. In fact, the A-10 RPI % was closer to #16 Southern vs #7 AAC. Yes, the A-10 received 3 bids, thanks to Davidson's tourney run. And yes, UD and VCU being down certainly contributed to the low ranking. However, if the slate is further tilting toward the power 5, I'd much rather have the opportunity of watching UC, UConn, Wichita St, etc. night in, night out than the current A-10 product. Postseason chips fall where they may.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:24 AM
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For those who think the American may get raided in the future, can you explain by whom? The Big 12 seems to be set against expanding. Even if it did, BYU and Air Force/CSU are just as likely to be added as any American school.

Given ND's arrangement with the ACC, getting to 16 isn't important. If the B10, SEC, or P12 expand it'll be the B12 they raid, not the American. It is more likely that the American expands for football than gets raided, to truly become "Power 6" as they desire. For example by re-inviting BSU/SDSU and other Western schools to make a West division. They could even really think out of box and tempt Gonzaga to leave.

The A10 is dead. To me this was proven by the decision not to expand to the Midwest after losing Butler. Wichita State was a glaringly obvious choice but was ignored and eventually lost. Dayton is on an island and SLU isn't even on the map, yet no Midwest additions were made despite the availability of schools at least on par with Davidson and George Mason.

UMass, VCU, Dayton, Saint Louis and Richmond are all attractive to various conferences that may expand in the future. Given the A10's decision to limit additions to the East coast, replacements for these schools should they depart are few and far between. Comparing the future outlook of the A10 and American is apples and oranges. The American's is bright and the A10's dim. We must accept this fact.

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Old 05-22-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Wallage, from an article in the Omaha paper I posted earlier in this thread from the Creighton AD, Wichita was a non starter for expansion for the Big East, the support wasn't there for them. He had been out there to tour the facilities and this was from his mouth in the paper of record in Nebraska so I'm assuming there was some serious consideration

I take that to mean that a public school is off the table for the Big East because they have everything else the Big East would want basketball wise.
Thanks for the info. I think its the Big East being elitist/stupid, but it helps alleviate what I consider the perfect storm of badness for UD if they were to jump.

I'd much rather go to the arena to watch UD play UC, UCONN, Wichita, Memphis, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Temple, VCU (assuming they are our partner) than the vast majority of the A10. In the A10 VCU, RI and SLU are great games, although SLU has been brutal to watch recently. Other teams have good years, but besides wondering how SBU and Davidson get such good guards and hating the stupid St. Joes Hawk its mostly blah.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:00 AM
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Expect the unexpected.

Recall, when the ACC first went after old Big East schools not many years ago, that was a stunning, entirely unexpected and unprecedented happening. That action triggered the entire conference "realignment" process.

And, it was all about money...nothing else.

The Big 12 will be satisfied with 10 schools until it's not.

Re the unexpected....on and off for years there has been talk that FSU is not satisfied with the ACC and that it is a better fit with the SEC. Should the day come that the SEC feels expanding to 16 schools will increase the size of the pie enough to increase revenue by $2 million, let's say, for each of the 16 schools....and the SEC goes after FSU and one other school, hang on to your hats. That sort of thing likely would trigger raids among the current Power 5 and the AAC.

None of this affects UD directly, of course, because FB drives the bus. But it is a reminder that unexpected things can happen. I think the AAC is dealing with its situation very well by recognizing that the only aspect of its future it can control is focusing on making its conference as good as it can possibly be.

The common sense of such an approach is entirely obvious. So obvious that one wonders why one or more BB-only conferences like the A10 don't adopt a similar strategy, i.e, "The best thing we can do to ensure a bright future is to do what it takes to be as good as we can possibly be".

I still think that is our best bet. A really good commissioner would help. Our's seems almost invisible....she's surely not an activist.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:46 PM
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ESPN 60 junior Romeo Weems has committed to DePaul.

Massive pickup for Dave Leitao. Top-ranked player in the state of Michigan.

Depaul beat out Michigan State, Michigan and Ohio State for him. Conference affiliation opens and closes a lot of doors
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@jeffborzello
ESPN 60 junior Romeo Weems has committed to DePaul.

Massive pickup for Dave Leitao. Top-ranked player in the state of Michigan.

Depaul beat out Michigan State, Michigan and Ohio State for him. Conference affiliation opens and closes a lot of doors


Yeah I don't get the people that think that we'd basically be the same team whether we're in the A10 or Big east.


A lot of people here are so conservative in their thinking. Even if the worst case scenario happens, I don't see it being really any worse than the current stagnant A10.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
Yeah I don't get the people that think that we'd basically be the same team whether we're in the A10 or Big east.


A lot of people here are so conservative in their thinking. Even if the worst case scenario happens, I don't see it being really any worse than the current stagnant A10.
Agree, being in the NBE would upgrade our recruiting ability, same is true of the AAC. Probabilities of joining the NBE are slim and none, and slim is headed out of town. Chances are somewhat better regarding the AAC but nothing concrete has developed yet and slim and none could still be in play. Developing another new BB only conference is a stretch at this point and the results of such an effort are an unknown. Being a dominate force in the A-10 would help our cause in the short (and maybe long) term, but except for a couple years under AM we have failed to be that force year in and year out.

Question from a "so conservative" thinker, What is the worst case scenario you speak of ?
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Agree, being in the NBE would upgrade our recruiting ability, same is true of the AAC. Probabilities of joining the NBE are slim and none, and slim is headed out of town. Chances are somewhat better regarding the AAC but nothing concrete has developed yet and slim and none could still be in play. Developing another new BB only conference is a stretch at this point and the results of such an effort are an unknown. Being a dominate force in the A-10 would help our cause in the short (and maybe long) term, but except for a couple years under AM we have failed to be that force year in and year out.

Question from a "so conservative" thinker, What is the worst case scenario you speak of ?

Joining the AAC and 4 teams teams leave. Keep in mind I'm assuming UD would not be joining solo, they'd be taking SLU or VCU with them. I'd say the big east expanding and taking two a10 members and not dayton is more likely to happen than the top 4 teams leaving the AAC.


It's all hypothetical, I just don't see dayton leaving and it ending up much worse than the current a10 no matter how things shake out.

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Old 05-23-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
Joining the AAC and 4 teams teams leave. Keep in mind I'm assuming UD would not be joining solo, they'd be taking SLU or VCU with them. I'd say the big east expanding and taking two a10 members and not dayton is more likely to happen than the top 4 teams leaving the AAC.


It's all hypothetical, I just don't see dayton leaving an it ending up much worse than the current a10 no matter how things shake out.
Please enlighten the rest of us as to who these four teams are and where they might be going.
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Old 05-23-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Please enlighten the rest of us as to who these four teams are and where they might be going.
Uconn to ACC

Huston, SMU, Memphis and Cincy to Big 12


There are actually rumors about 5 teams from the AAC wanting to jump ship
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Old 05-23-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Please enlighten the rest of us as to who these four teams are and where they might be going.


I actually don't think that many will leave. It was a response to the previous post of worst case scenario.

I think two A10 teams (not UD) to the big east is more likely than 4 leave from the AAC.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:01 PM
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I will freely admit I have no idea what the future holds.

The Big 12 did an extensive study on expansion and didn't find anyone available (read AAC members) that provided value to the conference. They got a conference title game with 10 members which was the main focus of expansion considerations to begin with

The ACC has rejected UConn multiple times for expansion starting in 2000s

I'm sure everyone in the AAC would love to be in a power 5 conference and wants out but I don't think the feeling is mutual
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Uconn to ACC

Huston, SMU, Memphis and Cincy to Big 12


There are actually rumors about 5 teams from the AAC wanting to jump ship
And we want to jump ship to the Big East, but, alas. Ain't no way four AAC schools are going to the B12.

If any of these extremely unlikely scenarios take place the American will still probably be better than the A10.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:57 PM
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ECU the worst team arguably in the conference with USF hired a new coach with a solid pedigree for around $900,000-$1,000,000.

That's more than what some of the top teams in the A10 are spending on a coach
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Uconn to ACC

Huston, SMU, Memphis and Cincy to Big 12


There are actually rumors about 5 teams from the AAC wanting to jump ship

I think all of the AAC teams would like to jump ship if their destination was a Power 5 league. All of them.

Power 5 conferences add teams for one reason: cash. Nothing proposed above adds revenue to the existing Power 5 leagues. So, IMO, not likely to happen. The only thing I could see is if the SEC or Big 10 get frisky and go after Texas and Oklahoma. That would destroy the Big 12 and begin a new free for all.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:29 PM
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This is an interesting idea for scheduling in terms of pods from CUSA. Everyone plays everyone once on the schedule and a travel partner twice. After 14 games the top teams play eachother for the last 4 games and on down the line

"I think our scheduling is going to change significantly this year," said Marshall head coach Danny D'Antoni. "We hired Mark Adams (former coach and ESPN analyst) to come up with something that would create interest and give us a better chance for a better seed (in the NCAA Tournament) out of our league tournament.

So, how is scheduling going to change that? The most radical difference will be that when the conference schedule is released, built in will be dates for games, but with opponents to be determined. Those dates will be filled with league opponents after the conference seeds the teams following the first 14 games.

"We're going to play 13 games and your travel partner twice, which would be Western Kentucky for us," said D'Antoni. "Then they are going to seed the schools. If you finish in the top five, No. 1 through No. 5 will play each other for the next four games to get 18 games.

"Like, if you're No. 1 you will play No. 4. And you'll play, I think, No. 4 and No. 3 at home and then travel to No. 2. ... There are four games in that five-team slot. No. 1 will play No. 5 and No. 4, I think. And No. 2 and No. 3 will come to No. 1.

"Then, if you're No. 2 you will play No. 4. It just reverses all the way down until you get everybody in that top group playing each other once. That will give you 18 games."

The goal is for C-USA's best teams to play one another in effort to boost the Rating Percentage Index (RPI) of those teams. Those groupings remain in place all season all the way through the conference tournament.
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sport...87418accd.html
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