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  #401  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:18 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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Answers....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Two points: Does it look like the A-10 will ever shape up or downsize? They've had plenty of time to do so. Also, how were the Big East basketball schools hurt?
Second first: I think the Big East was a special case. It was a highly prominent BB power conference for years. There aren't five schools in the A10 that have the cache of the BE BB schools. They were in the drivers seat and could pick and choose the cream of the crop to join them. Just think about how UD was clamoring to join with the BE BB schools...still is.

No one is falling all over themselves to join the AAC. And I don't think the AAC wants a hybrid conference for the reasons I stated previously. WSU was a special exception for the AAC...a chance to really strengthen BB. Frankly, I don't think the AAC would view UD in the same light as it did WSU. Also, WSU is a better institutional fit with AAC than is Dayton.

The BB core of the A10 is solid and strong....usually a multi-bid league. You pose the question about shaping up. And that's a good one. I have urged Chris to explore this with Neil and get some facts. Schools like UD, SLU, SJU, VCU, URI are serious about BB....might add Bona and Richmond, even UMass. There are only a few that give strong indication that they do not consider BB a priority...as evidenced by their second (third) rate facilities. If a school refuses to invest in decent facilities it is telling the conference something. Indeed, it's disrespectful.

Maybe Neil would explain why that doesn't matter to Dayton's main goal...regular NCAAs. I'd like to know why it doesn't matter. Explain it to me.

If it does matter...if consistently weak conference members hurt the NCAA chances of schools that do care...why aren't the "cares" doing something about it? We are in the process of making the largest single facility investment in the history of the university...Arena renovation. Are we to believe that the lack of any reasonable investment by the likes of LaSalle, Fordham...has no impact at all on us? Maybe it doesn't. I'd just like to understand why.

So, does it look as if the A10 will ever downsize of shape up? No, I guess it doesn't. But I'd like to know why?

I'm exposed to a lot of AAC news. For sure the stuff coming from the AAC commissioner is all about improvement. Being a FB conference, money is the driver behind the focus on improvement. The AAC refers to itself as Power 6...and it's FB performance backs that up and is getting even better.

I see only two things shaking up the conference world again: 1) The Big 12 finally decides it really does need two or four more schools; 2) One of the Power 5 conferences concludes there would be even more money by going to 16 schools; and it raids one of the other Power conferences. I would really love to see that...love it! Either scenario would change the ball game again, possibly affecting Dayton. Meanwhile we need a better A10.
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  #402  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:31 PM
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Dayton and VCU are the outliers on basketball commitment (part of why we need out)

You can't make Fordham spend money or in the case of LaSalle spend money they don't have. The commitment to basketball here is dissimilar to the rest of the league
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  #403  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:22 AM
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True, to a point,...

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Dayton and VCU are the outliers on basketball commitment (part of why we need out)

You can't make Fordham spend money or in the case of LaSalle spend money they don't have. The commitment to basketball here is dissimilar to the rest of the league
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Every conference, even each of the Power 5s, varies considerably from top to bottom. Look at the Big 10. Conference schools have different institutional and athletics cultures and histories. Naturally, performance, attendance, etc., vary greatly. But, are there schools in the Big 10 with inadequate, run-down, badly dated facilities? I don't think so.

You mention Fordham. Fordham has money for football scholarships....but not for decent BB facilities? FU has substantially higher enrollment and endowment than Dayton. FU is not a poor school...it's a school that choses different priorities.

LaSalle and St. Joes are in Philly....I know both well. St. Joes has financial assets considerably in excess of LaSalle. LU really can't compete financially.....it should be in a different conference. The MAAC is a better fit.

Consider URI. Rhode Island gets less than 10% of its funding from the State...yet the State controls URI. A URI official told me the school would function better if it were private. Yet, URI is committed to man's BB....the Ryan Center is very nice....well above average for the A10. URI wants to make the NCAAs.

Schools are different and are free to establish different priorities. When they do so in such a way as to be far out of step with other conference members it's time to find a conference that better fits their goals.

That's all I'm saying.
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  #404  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:16 AM
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The A10 has the largest delta between haves and have nots however. We have teams playing in HS gyms alongside schools with massive arenas. No other major multi bid conference has HS gyms unless you want to lump us in with the WCC. If only our worst offenders were playing in Welsh Ryan.
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  #405  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:28 AM
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The reality is this is an exercise in mental self stimulation. The BE has given no tangible indication it's going to expand anytime in the foreseeable future, and even less indication that UD is a desired target. The AAC expanded by one and, though there were some indications UD was in the discussion, I find it hard to believe UC would want to share the SW Ohio spotlight with the Flyers for essentially the same reason that X doesn't want UD in the BE.

UAC hit the nail on the head when he said the breakup of the BE was unique in that you had a core of schools (VU, G-town, Marquette, SJU) with a either a strong national following, recent high level NCAA success, historical panache, or all three. They were able to attract the top flight basketball schools from the eastern half of the country to join them and they have thrived as a league. It's not as easy as saying "well, we'll just pull VCU, WSU, and some other schools and viola, we have a league at the same level as the BE." VCU does not equal Villanova; SLU does not equal SJU. That's not to say these aren't good basketball schools and wouldn't be good to be in a conference, but we are deluding ourselves if we think creating a league from the cream of the A-10, AAC non-football, and the Missouri Valley is going to be anything close to to the BE.

As I said before, we may not want the BE to expand, because if they do they may take someone from the A-10 who is not us, and who we may wish were still in our conference (SLU/Duq).
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  #406  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:00 PM
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ESPN: Conference power rankings according to BPI

1. Big 12
2. ACC
3. Big East
4. Big Ten
5. SEC
6. AAC
... 9. A10

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-according-bpi
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  #407  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
It's not as easy as saying "well, we'll just pull VCU, WSU, and some other schools and viola, we have a league at the same level as the BE." VCU does not equal Villanova; SLU does not equal SJU. That's not to say these aren't good basketball schools and wouldn't be good to be in a conference, but we are deluding ourselves if we think creating a league from the cream of the A-10, AAC non-football, and the Missouri Valley is going to be anything close to to the BE.
I don't think anyone is saying this "new" conference would be as good as the Big East. But with Wichita State, Dayton, VCU, Memphis, Temple, etc, with a few good additions (assuming UConn and UC leave), it would certainly be better than the A-10.
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  #408  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
The reality is this is an exercise in mental self stimulation. The BE has given no tangible indication it's going to expand anytime in the foreseeable future, and even less indication that UD is a desired target.
Rothstein: UConn, Big East have had recent discussions about expansion

“If the Big East expanded to 20 games with UConn as a member, it would help offset other power-five programs being in position to get more of the NCAA bids,” one source said. “It would provide an opportunity for the teams in the league to get more games that matter and more games that can help their overall resume.
Link

“One school expansion would be more favorable to us.” Big East commissioner Val Ackerman

Link
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  #409  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't think anyone is saying this "new" conference would be as good as the Big East. But with Wichita State, Dayton, VCU, Memphis, Temple, etc, with a few good additions (assuming UConn and UC leave), it would certainly be better than the A-10.
UConn and UC are going nowhere. If I'm wrong about that, it doesn't mean the AAC is just going to dissolve and let all of the other teams get poached. What makes people think the B12 (if it actually ever does expand) wants those two? Why wouldn't it take much more logical choices like Air Force and BYU? Just because it has one eastern team that doesn't mean new additions will also be eastern. They don't have to appease WVU's travel concerns at this point.

I think we are the only obvious choice for the BE outside of VCU. We have the edge over VCU because we are catholic and private. SLU and Richmond would work, but their only perceived benefit over UD is the completely false notion that they bring a "new market" and UD doesn't.

If the AAC/BE don't want us the only other option is A10 additions. We aren't subtracting anyone and creating a "new conference" is just mental you-know-what.
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  #410  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:18 PM
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Don't agree

Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
UConn and UC are going nowhere. If I'm wrong about that, it doesn't mean the AAC is just going to dissolve and let all of the other teams get poached. What makes people think the B12 (if it actually ever does expand) wants those two? Why wouldn't it take much more logical choices like Air Force and BYU? Just because it has one eastern team that doesn't mean new additions will also be eastern. They don't have to appease WVU's travel concerns at this point.

I think we are the only obvious choice for the BE outside of VCU. We have the edge over VCU because we are catholic and private. SLU and Richmond would work, but their only perceived benefit over UD is the completely false notion that they bring a "new market" and UD doesn't.

If the AAC/BE don't want us the only other option is A10 additions. We aren't subtracting anyone and creating a "new conference" is just mental you-know-what.
In my opinion, SLU is a far better choice than UD. Look at a map. SLU provides a bridge to CU, is Jesuit and does provide a better TV market. I don't think it would be close call.
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  #411  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
In my opinion, SLU is a far better choice than UD. Look at a map. SLU provides a bridge to CU, is Jesuit and does provide a better TV market. I don't think it would be close call.
Your stating my biggest fear because I'd love to be in the BE- I think SLU is taken the moment they show their past their long funk. I have always thought it's us and VCU in a bind- a odd sort of bedfellows at that.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:10 PM
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keep in mind St Louis was left behind twice by this gang in recent years. When marquette and depaul joined and in the most recent xavier butler creighton additions.
Dukes are a good decade of ncca tourneys appearances away from any consideration
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  #413  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:15 PM
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I would give up all postseason play for three years to be in the BE.

Mostly, because we will be better off in the long run. And there is no guarantee on the postseason anyway.

Not to mention the benefit the other sports would have by being in the BE.
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  #414  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
I would give up all postseason play for three years to be in the BE.

Mostly, because we will be better off in the long run. And there is no guarantee on the postseason anyway.

Not to mention the benefit the other sports would have by being in the BE.
I would give up postseason play for 10 or 15 years to get in.
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  #415  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
The A10 has the largest delta between haves and have nots however. We have teams playing in HS gyms alongside schools with massive arenas. No other major multi bid conference has HS gyms unless you want to lump us in with the WCC. If only our worst offenders were playing in Welsh Ryan.
Unfortunately, the A10 has too many HS gyms. I am not which have massive arenas. I thought UD Arena was the largest home arena in the league. I am not including the occasional games played by teams outside of the home gyms, such as Madison Square Garden for Fordham.
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:04 AM
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Size of gym (and more importantly, the number of butts that sit in it) seems to be an oft-recurring topic in this thread. I agree it is a good metric for the quality of any potential additions/subtractions.

Currently, the A10 has five schools in the top-100 for attendance: UD, VCU, SLU, Richmond and Rhode Island.

Here's a list of non P5/BE/AAC also in the top-100 (excluding the west): Old Dominion, Ohio, Bradley, Marshall, MTSU, Siena, Illinois State.
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  #417  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:05 AM
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I have spent a bunch of time in St Louis, as my brother lives there. The U is an afterthought there, with little following. One could argue that if they got into the BE, and if they became competitive, they may draw fans and TV eyeballs. Big ifs based on what they are presently doing and their history. Dayton is smaller, but UD is a proven quantity.
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  #418  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I have spent a bunch of time in St Louis, as my brother lives there. The U is an afterthought there, with little following. One could argue that if they got into the BE, and if they became competitive, they may draw fans and TV eyeballs. Big ifs based on what they are presently doing and their history. Dayton is smaller, but UD is a proven quantity.
Absolutely correct Jack. I have lived here for 20 plus years and the only followers are SLU alum. SLU is like women's basketball at UD, little to no interest from the community if not grads.

Market size is large but the draw is small. Mizzou SEMO and even Illinois draws more interest. Then add in the fact SLU fans are Fairweather fans. They show up when winning but don't bother otherwise. Too many options here.
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  #419  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:33 AM
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As for Cincinnati in the AAC I've read their message boards and even heard comments from admins they would welcome Dayton as we'd become travel buddies. Don't feel the hate that X has. They respect UD.
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  #420  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:37 AM
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Cincy and the AAC need good programs and quality wins in conference desperately. SMU and UC went 17-1 & 16-2 respectively and got 6 seeds. 20 game schedules by the Power 5 means fewer OOC chances and more of a need to get quality wins in conference.
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  #421  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Conference affiliation is the message board gift that keeps on giving. The A10 has too many high school gyms. X doesn't want us at their Big East party. We'll never get an invite from UNC, Duke, and the gang....oh, you said AAC, not ACC. What's that? I get the discussion, but it seems that we have it in a vacuum. We don't seem to really consider conference realignment forces. How do they affect UD? Which of these winds will blow behind UD's back?

1. Football. This isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. It's king, and no one is taking the crown. There is no indication that football is going to motivate conference realignment for at least 5 years. 2023 seems to be when it could occur next. Where UConn, UC, BYU, and Houston go will drive things. What happens to the AAC?

2. Money. The next round of tv negotiations will be crazy. They will be more complex as the market is affected by the reversal of net neutrality with so many people streaming games. It won't be enough that a school is in a city with a large media market. Teams will be measured by their actual following. Think of this as a minus for SLU and a plus for UD.

3. 20 game schedule. This could be a real game changer. The ideal number of conference teams becomes either 14 or 11. This should be a plus for UD if it wants to upgrade. The Big East needs to add a team (4 is not going to happen). UD is ideally situated to get an invite. If X is an immovable object, then the Big East discussion is essentially dead. The AAC currently sits at 12 teams. This is a great time for the AAC to add 2 basketball only teams. There would be 14 for basketball and 12 for football. Of course, the issue remains that the AAC suffers if 2 football schools are nabbed in the next conference realignment.

3. FBS playoff expansion. If they go to 8 teams, then It could open the door for non-p5 conferences. This could be a real wild card.

4. Who can survive. The next round of expansion will be tough on the second tier conferences in football and basketball. In football, the AAC is in the crosshairs. If the top football teams leave, what happens to the remaining schools? The domino scenarios are crazy.

5. Who is looking to expand. As much as we like to talk about conference change, are any of the conferences discussing it? This is a tough question. There doesn't seem to be much discussion about either the Big East or the AAC expanding any time soon. It's entirely possible that they wait for the next wave of football driven movement. That makes sense.

In the end, UD has limited options: stay in the A10 or move to the Big East or AAC if invited. Unfortunately, the only thing UD can overtly do is keep the success train rolling. But, it needs to be working the phones behind the scenes if it wants to improve conference alignment.
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  #422  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:37 PM
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The Creighton AD is quoted as saying it takes 7/10 to vote a school in so it's possible to get in despite their objections. If the 20 game schedule hurts the Big East & Xavier enough while Dayton is winning they could swallow their pride & take us
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:43 PM
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The ACC & Big 10 are looking to muscle the Big East out of Madison Square Garden for the conference tournament. Having MSG is a big point of pride and recruiting tool for them. Another school that travels & has an alumni base in greater NYC might be another plus
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:47 PM
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Hyde Park is pretty much spot on. UD's options are limited to the A10 and BE, because of football and that is not going to change. UD has done, and will continue to do EVERYTHING in its power and control (short of breaking the bank to overpay for a name coach) to make itself the number one choice when and if the BE expands. It cannot change its tv market or the landscape of cable viewership, ESPN issues or FOX1 issues. UD needs to continue to win, and win a lot and we need to continue, as fans, to provide the overwhelming we do, for the Flyers.

When the BE tv contract is renewed, FOX1 will have a lot to say about who gets in if anyone. Short of a them throwing a lot more money at the BE (which is not going to happen), why would they divide less/same money between more teams? There is probably only one team that could walk into the BE, no questions asked, and that is ND, and that most likely won't happen.

This always sticks in my mind as it pertains to us being evaluated by the BE - we've been in the A10 for 15+ years and we have won only one conference tournament - and it was at home.
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  #425  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:59 PM
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We don't know how the 20 game schedule is going to play out. From reading the national columnists & speculation on my part I think it's safe to say that the teams in Power 5 leagues that move to this are gonna replace quality opponents in non conference with the two new league games. OOC might be a rival & league challenge like the Big 10/ACC.

The 20 game league play should boost the bubble teams in those leagues. That's also very likely fewer high profile opponents for the Big East schools. For instance Seton Hall played a H/H series with Louisville this year & next. Good chance they never get series like that again.

There's a likely scenario where the Big East bubble teams starts to lose bids to bubble teams in the Power 5 because they aren't getting the marquee games & thus have a weaker SOS & fewer quality OOC wins to position them against the other bubble teams. The top tier teams lose OOC games that help beef up their resume for seeding.

The next problem for them & us is going to be the exempt tourneys. For instance Iowa two years ago was a very nice win in Orlando. Iowa plays in the B1G/ACC challenge every year, Iowa St and the Gavitt Games against the Big East every couple years. 22 games on the books against Power 5 opponents every year. No incentive to play 3 more games at a neutral site against quality competition. 25-26 games out of the 30/31 against major conferences isn't happening. These schools will start to do what Indiana did this year & just host an exempt tourney at home against cream puffs. This scheduling model is gonna become the default for those in 20 league game conferences.

From my perspective the Big East is gonna get hurt from this over the near future of years as the PAC 12 & SEC pick this up too. They won't take anyone just to get 11 teams & 20 league games and I don't think this is coming in the next two years. If Anthony Grant say goes to the tourney 5 of the next 6 years & we've got a decades worth of success at our tailwind along with the financial resources & facilities then we've got a compelling argument to a conference likely in need of a team
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Hyde Park is pretty much spot on. UD's options are limited to the A10 and BE, because of football and that is not going to change. UD has done, and will continue to do EVERYTHING in its power and control (short of breaking the bank to overpay for a name coach) to make itself the number one choice when and if the BE expands. It cannot change its tv market or the landscape of cable viewership, ESPN issues or FOX1 issues. UD needs to continue to win, and win a lot and we need to continue, as fans, to provide the overwhelming we do, for the Flyers.
AAC would still be an option potentially. They have shown that they don't require football to be in the AAC in basketball. They have Wichita State for basketball and that spot is taken by Navy in football. As long as they are OK with bball and football not aligning (they seem to be) then they would still be a potential option.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
AAC would still be an option potentially. They have shown that they don't require football to be in the AAC in basketball. They have Wichita State for basketball and that spot is taken by Navy in football. As long as they are OK with bball and football not aligning (they seem to be) then they would still be a potential option.
The AAC option has come and gone unless, they lose members to a P5 or UConn goes back to the BE. UD and VCU both had a chance to strike when WSU did and it never happened. The bottom tier basketball schools in the AAC (Tulane, ECU ect) did not want to add more than 1 school so they could not get the votes to add UD and VCU.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
The AAC option has come and gone unless, they lose members to a P5 or UConn goes back to the BE. UD and VCU both had a chance to strike when WSU did and it never happened. The bottom tier basketball schools in the AAC (Tulane, ECU ect) did not want to add more than 1 school so they could not get the votes to add UD and VCU.
If the AAC wants to go to a 20-game schedule adding VCU/Dayton to get to 14 would be a no-brainer for all parties. If the AAC wanted more football teams they would have gone that route already.
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  #429  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:58 AM
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Look at the AAC basketball standings. They only have two bad teams, ECU and SF. Nine of their teams are in the Top100 RPI. Temple is third last with an even season record, and is pretty darn good. They won the Charleston Tourney beating Clemson. They also beat SC and Wisconsin, but they have struggled in conference at 2-5. Their SOS is #2.

Yes, the AAC would be a big step up for us.
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  #430  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:18 AM
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Not so!

Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
If the AAC wants to go to a 20-game schedule adding VCU/Dayton to get to 14 would be a no-brainer for all parties. If the AAC wanted more football teams they would have gone that route already.
Like everyone else the AAC knows that FB drives the bus. The AAC is getting to be quite strong in FB.....final poll: three teams in top 25...one in top 10. They need strong FB...very strong....not just additional teams. The AAC focus is strengthening what they now have...and they're doing it.

BB is important, which is why WSU was added. But it's still all about FB and the money.
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  #431  
Old 01-20-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
If the AAC wants to go to a 20-game schedule adding VCU/Dayton to get to 14 would be a no-brainer for all parties. If the AAC wanted more football teams they would have gone that route already.
Trust me, that window has closed unless they lose teams. My info comes straight from an AD at an AAC school.
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  #432  
Old 01-20-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
These schools will start to do what Indiana did this year & just host an exempt tourney at home against cream puffs. This scheduling model is gonna become the default for those in 20 league game conferences.
Bring back the Merrill Lynch Classic!
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  #433  
Old 01-27-2018, 11:14 PM
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Just helped StL get a foot in the BEast door.
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Old 01-28-2018, 03:56 AM
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Smile

Originally Posted by slysyl View Post
Just helped StL get a foot in the BEast door.
I would hope we are not rooting to join a league that makes their considerations based on a one-game winning streak at home against another possible candidate for consideration. We are a very young team and I thought I saw multiple posts about us struggling with inconsistency this season while we learn as the season continues. It seemed at the time most people understood and expected this.

My goodness! I know we sucked but please put on your thinking cap before you post such nonsense.

No-one wants to cheer for a loser but I do not like to see some people revel in their struggles. Maybe I have misjudged you. I hope so and apologize if I have. It does not appear that you have been on here long and what I call nonsense just might be very sensible to you and very valid.

Welcome to the board although we disagree and I have crapped all over your short comment. It was a crappy loss

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  #435  
Old 01-28-2018, 09:20 AM
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How bout the Patriot League or Horizon 🤣
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by slysyl View Post
Just helped StL get a foot in the BEast door.
Yeah, after losing 8 straight to the Flyers, an emotional home win for SLU gives them a leg up on the mythical Big East expansion.

Unfortunately for SLU, and all of the A10, SLU is on the cusp of some program shattering events. If they thought they were in the midst of rebuild the last 3/4 years, wait until you see the next 3 to 4.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Yeah, after losing 8 straight to the Flyers, an emotional home win for SLU gives them a leg up on the mythical Big East expansion.

Unfortunately for SLU, and all of the A10, SLU is on the cusp of some program shattering events. If they thought they were in the midst of rebuild the last 3/4 years, wait until you see the next 3 to 4.
Anything we should be waiting to see in “Outside the Lines”?
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  #438  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
The A10 has the largest delta between haves and have nots however. We have teams playing in HS gyms alongside schools with massive arenas. No other major multi bid conference has HS gyms unless you want to lump us in with the WCC. If only our worst offenders were playing in Welsh Ryan.
This is one of the reasons I find it hard to stomach the current situation we find ourselves with this team - we have every advantage in the A-10...every advantage. We should never be as mediocre as we are right now. Never.
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  #439  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Yeah, after losing 8 straight to the Flyers, an emotional home win for SLU gives them a leg up on the mythical Big East expansion.

Unfortunately for SLU, and all of the A10, SLU is on the cusp of some program shattering events. If they thought they were in the midst of rebuild the last 3/4 years, wait until you see the next 3 to 4.
I received a text Sunday from my SLU friend who said sorry he had not been in touch because he had been out late celebrating. I responded with a - I understand, Flyer fans are ****ed off at being 4-5 in conference and Billiken fans are celebrating the same record.
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  #440  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
This is one of the reasons I find it hard to stomach the current situation we find ourselves with this team - we have every advantage in the A-10...every advantage. We should never be as mediocre as we are right now. Never.
Well, I tend to agree, but then we must look at why we are so mediocre. Here are some reasons:

1. The tragic death of Big Steve...he would be a dominant junior this year.

2. The loss of Ryan Mikesell for the season.

3. X's greatly diminished game.

4. Coaching change and loss of a key recruit.

5. Senior-laden class last year that left a huge experience void.

6. The lack of development of John Crosby at the point, leaving the role to a
freshman.

Folks, we may indeed be mediocre this year, but given the aforementioned circumstances, we could be much worse off.
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  #441  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:56 AM
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All this crazy talk about the nBE. I guess only if the nBE needs someone to be another bottom feeder to make DePaul & StJohn's feel better.

Right now we can't show sustainment (is that a word?) in our program. Yes only after about 2/3 of a season ... we haven't demonstrated that our talent level or coaching staff can continue on the trajectory established over the last few years.

I hope that this year is an aberration ... yet unless we do something about the talent on the floor (and except for a limited number of players), I right now do not see how they all will mesh into something rivaling the past number of years talent wise.

I thought the coaching changes would be meaningful in that we would stutter a bit early this year, but now it appears that as a whole we have not seemingly improved in any category .... playing as a team, playing with experience or coaching philosophy and by now I would have thought some of these would show great improvement.

So why on God's green earth do we think we belong in the nBE? Because we have fan support? We have a great arena? Nice but you don't get points in any game based on those factors. Remember if you can the JOB years. All those extraneous factors added up to nada and led UD in to what can be claimed as wandering in the BB desert for what seemed like 40 years.
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  #442  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Well, I tend to agree, but then we must look at why we are so mediocre. Here are some reasons:

1. The tragic death of Big Steve...he would be a dominant junior this year.

2. The loss of Ryan Mikesell for the season.

3. X's greatly diminished game.

4. Coaching change and loss of a key recruit.

5. Senior-laden class last year that left a huge experience void.

6. The lack of development of John Crosby at the point, leaving the role to a
freshman.

Folks, we may indeed be mediocre this year, but given the aforementioned circumstances, we could be much worse off.
I respect your opinion, but the hc is the problem. Even with 1 and 2 present, we would still be struggling IMO. That is why I think Cohill next year is not going to get us over the top. I am not sure that there is anything that could be added to overcome the obstacle of Grant's coaching deficiencies.

Grant is similar to BG, even if half of the starting lineups at UD for both coaches, were 4 star players, I do not think that it would be enough to overcome the deficient coaching schemes that BG and Grant employed/employ, and get us to where we want to go.

Whereas, on the other hand, Archie could take a less than optimal roster, and get us to where we want to go.

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Old 01-29-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Anything we should be waiting to see in “Outside the Lines”?
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It won't be anything like that, and certainly not to that level of national media attention.

Expect some clarity and finality to the lingering suspensions and potential expulsion circulating around their Title IX investigation.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post

Whereas, on the other hand, Archie could take a less than optimal roster, and get us to where we want to go.
Really? I must have missed it the first two seasons when Archie took us to the tournament?
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Really? I must have missed it the first two seasons when Archie took us to the tournament?
You forgot that in Archie's first year he did take us to the tournament (not THE tournament), the A10 tournament. This was a year when the bottom 4 teams did not play in the A10 tournament. Needing a win against GW to finish out of the bottom 4, the Flyers lost. However, thanks to Fordham beating SBU I was able to see the Flyers lose to Butler in Brooklyn. I am forever grateful to Fordham because had they not won, I would have spent a weekend at the A10 tournament not even getting to see my team play.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
You forgot that in Archie's first year he did take us to the tournament (not THE tournament), the A10 tournament. This was a year when the bottom 4 teams did not play in the A10 tournament. Needing a win against GW to finish out of the bottom 4, the Flyers lost. However, thanks to Fordham beating SBU I was able to see the Flyers lose to Butler in Brooklyn. I am forever grateful to Fordham because had they not won, I would have spent a weekend at the A10 tournament not even getting to see my team play.
My bad! Anyone want to wager that AG is good enough to take us back to the A-10 tourney this year?
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:17 PM
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:52 PM
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Pepperdine???
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:37 PM
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Just like everyone has an ahole and opinion, every wannabe journalist has a website. While I think he does a good job setting up the problem statement (getting down to 5 potential programs), he gets lazy and easily dismisses VCU and UD because of a coaching change. No analysis of arena, attendance, commitment from the institution, historical records beyond the past 4-5 years.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Just like everyone has an ahole and opinion, every wannabe journalist has a website. While I think he does a good job setting up the problem statement (getting down to 5 potential programs), he gets lazy and easily dismisses VCU and UD because of a coaching change. No analysis of arena, attendance, commitment from the institution, historical records beyond the past 4-5 years.

Springborofan ... not to diss you but no program is accepted into a conference using these parameters (highlighted) over the program record/success. Yes commitment from the institution is a value and UD has definitely demonstrated that. But some of the programs already in the BE have nowhere near the facilities and attendance we do .... so thinking that these parameters bias a decision in favor of us .... well no. You see we weren't asked in the first round and these factors were there already.

So one has to believe that other factors were/are in play besides an arena or attendance numbers ......

It's like writing a research paper on the mating habits of wood ducks while the actual assignment paper was detailing the use of radar to detect geological faults, getting a D and arguing you should have gotten an A since all the words were spelled correctly. It an't happenin'


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Old 02-01-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Just like everyone has an ahole and opinion, every wannabe journalist has a website. While I think he does a good job setting up the problem statement (getting down to 5 potential programs), he gets lazy and easily dismisses VCU and UD because of a coaching change. No analysis of arena, attendance, commitment from the institution, historical records beyond the past 4-5 years.
I agree that he did a decent job of analyzing the factors that should contribute to the BE’s expansion decision. A much better strategic approach than “who is closer to whom”, Jesuits vs. Marianists vs. Dominicans vs. etc., expanding the footprint of the conference to the left coast, or which University president is on the Board of Trustees for University Zed. But he definitely kept his analysis in the near-term (i.e. a year or less). And, if I was in the BE’s shoes, I might approach expansion in much the same way he did. Let the candidates (UD included) fight it out to see who can consistently succeed while maintaining program continuity.

I only wish the BE would have considered expansion in much the same manner 2 years ago. If they had, we might have stood a better chance of keeping the coach who took us to 4 straight NCAAs, and he might have been more focused on seeing the program succeed once the Class of ‘17 graduated.

One last comment on the author himself: a fair amount of hubris in his attitude about the BE. Maybe the conference should change its name to Mary Poppins, since it’s already “practically perfect in every way”.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Grant is similar to BG, even if half of the starting lineups at UD for both coaches, were 4 star players, I do not think that it would be enough to overcome the deficient coaching schemes that BG and Grant employed/employ, and get us to where we want to go..
That must have been a different guy taking VCU to the tourney and putting up a winning conference record in the SEC over 6 seasons.

Not saying I'm thrilled with how the season is going, but there are other factors other than AG. He can coach. Give the dude some time.
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  #453  
Old 02-02-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Absolutely correct Jack. I have lived here for 20 plus years and the only followers are SLU alum. SLU is like women's basketball at UD, little to no interest from the community if not grads.

Market size is large but the draw is small. Mizzou SEMO and even Illinois draws more interest. Then add in the fact SLU fans are Fairweather fans. They show up when winning but don't bother otherwise. Too many options here.
St Louis is pro sports first and foremost. Unlike Cincy, which promotes _avier and UC very very well (with help from the Bengals/Reds being woeful in recent years), the Cardinals (and to a lesser degree, the Blues) rule the day 24/7/365.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Absolutely correct Jack. I have lived here for 20 plus years and the only followers are SLU alum. SLU is like women's basketball at UD, little to no interest from the community if not grads.

Market size is large but the draw is small. Mizzou SEMO and even Illinois draws more interest. Then add in the fact SLU fans are Fairweather fans. They show up when winning but don't bother otherwise. Too many options here.
I have been here for 23 years. Season ticket holder for 12 years. I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiments of jack and avid. They’re accurate in respect to the last 5 years, but over the last 20-25 years, SLU has had more moments of excitement and support than not. The Spoonball of the 90’s then Romar to Sodabug to Majerus they have had plenty of local support that has extended beyond the Alumni. I can confirm this first hand as I know plenty who attend the games that aren’t alums.

Bottom line, when they’re winning more often than not and are competitive with the top teams in the league, the support is there. Lots of clouded uncertainty over this last player that’s playing under appeal on the Title IX investigation. IF that turns out to be Goodwin and he ends up gone, there’s legit concern over losing their top recruit in waiting for 2018 and that it could really turn into a tailspin from there.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:19 PM
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Only one meaningful consideration...

Re BE expansion...only one thing matters. Assuming a school is a reasonable institutional fit,.....does adding a school bring in additional money so that the existing schools benefit financially to a meaningful degree?

It's about money....TV money. If adding UD would mean $500K more per year, let's say, for each current BE school we'd be in. The added revenue has to be enough to account for the fact that one more slice has been added to the pie. And the added revenue has to be significant and sustainable.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
You forgot that in Archie's first year he did take us to the tournament (not THE tournament), the A10 tournament. This was a year when the bottom 4 teams did not play in the A10 tournament. Needing a win against GW to finish out of the bottom 4, the Flyers lost. However, thanks to Fordham beating SBU I was able to see the Flyers lose to Butler in Brooklyn. I am forever grateful to Fordham because had they not won, I would have spent a weekend at the A10 tournament not even getting to see my team play.
That is not the way I remember Archie's first year.

We beat GW at home in the last game of the season.

No?

We were the 6 seed in the A10T, had we lost to GW, we would have been the 8 seed.

13th place and 14th place did not make the A10T.




https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-schedule.html



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012...nament#Bracket

Last edited by ud2; 02-04-2018 at 10:58 AM..
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That is not the way I remember Archie's first year.

We beat GW at home in the last game of the season.

No?

We were the 6 seed in the A10T, had we lost to GW, we would have been the 8 seed.

13th place and 14th place did not make the A10T.




https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-schedule.html



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012...nament#Bracket
Your memory is better than mine (or you looked it up). I was off by a year.

Look at that roster - AM's first year. Much better than this years roster. AMs second year roster is more similar to the roster AG has to work with.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Your memory is better than mine (or you looked it up). I was off by a year.

Look at that roster - AM's first year. Much better than this years roster. AMs second year roster is more similar to the roster AG has to work with.
I just remembered playing GW back-to-back and winning both, the rest of it I had to look up. I did not recall that GW home game being a make-or-break type game.

But, you are right about the 2013 A10T, I did not remember us being so close to not qualifying for the A10T that year.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:58 AM
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At this point, this thread has as much usefulness as a UDScott post
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  #460  
Old 02-05-2018, 02:25 PM
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Gonzaga to the Big East? Keep an eye on it

Why it could work: Gonzaga fits the basketball-first, religiously based, private-school profile of the institutions in this league. Plus, the Big Ten's move to 20 conference games (to increase, over time, the amount of its own league teams in the NCAA tournament) will likely force the hand of others to follow suit. Adding a team would allow the Big East to do that, while maintaining its preferred round-robin schedule.

Creighton Athletic Director Bruce Rasmussen, who obviously has closely followed the sport for some time, who toured the Zags' new basketball facility last weekend and who has publicly expressed a desire for the Big East to at least consider the Bulldogs (and Wichita State).

http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/...9f33e997f.html
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Gonzaga to the Big East? Keep an eye on it

Why it could work: Gonzaga fits the basketball-first, religiously based, private-school profile of the institutions in this league. Plus, the Big Ten's move to 20 conference games (to increase, over time, the amount of its own league teams in the NCAA tournament) will likely force the hand of others to follow suit. Adding a team would allow the Big East to do that, while maintaining its preferred round-robin schedule.

Creighton Athletic Director Bruce Rasmussen, who obviously has closely followed the sport for some time, who toured the Zags' new basketball facility last weekend and who has publicly expressed a desire for the Big East to at least consider the Bulldogs (and Wichita State).

http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/...9f33e997f.html
Where would GU go, if not to the BE? The American? The Mountain West Conference?

I could see GU moving to the MW, that would make sense. The American is a bit of a stretch IMO.

From your link:

And Gonzaga won't be on the market forever.

That is, at least, the opinion of CU Athletic Director Bruce Rasmussen, who obviously has closely followed the sport for some time, who toured the Zags' new basketball facility last weekend and who has publicly expressed a desire for the Big East to at least consider the Bulldogs (and Wichita State).

“Probably the biggest impediment to Gonzaga's future success is conference affiliation,” Rasmussen told The World-Herald last week. “They've been able to really take advantage of dominating the West Coast Conference, but I wouldn't be surprised if within the next five to 10 years, Gonzaga's in a different conference. They need to be.”

Just something to watch.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:37 PM
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I don't think they could overcome the geography of Gonzaga.

But we've got another confirmation of the 20 game schedule forcing the Big East's hand and the Creighton AD discussing teams for expansion
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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And GU only draws 6k per game, that is full capacity for their arena. We draw more than double that.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I don't think they could overcome the geography of Gonzaga.

But we've got another confirmation of the 20 game schedule forcing the Big East's hand and the Creighton AD discussing teams for expansion
He always has. He just spouts off about this stuff (you can Google similar articles based on stuff he's said for the past three years), but there is absolutely no desire of the league membership to expand. CU is in the middle of nowhere and they would like an easy travel game or two -- no one cares.

He's just yelling in the wind. Ackerman has repeatedly said that its never discussed.

Given the league is probably going to finish first in conference RPI this year, I don't really see this changing in the next generation or so.

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Old 02-05-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
He always has. He just spouts off about this stuff (you can Google similar articles based on stuff he's said for the past three years), but there is absolutely no desire of the league membership to expand. CU is in the middle of nowhere and they would like an easy travel game or two -- no one cares.

He's just yelling in the wind. Ackerman has repeatedly said that its never discussed.

Given the league is probably going to finish first in conference RPI this year, I don't really see this changing in the next generation or so.
What if you guys start getting squeezed by the 20 game schedule. Ackerman's been quoted in an Athletic article saying that could effect expansion plans
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
He always has. He just spouts off about this stuff (you can Google similar articles based on stuff he's said for the past three years), but there is absolutely no desire of the league membership to expand. CU is in the middle of nowhere and they would like an easy travel game or two -- no one cares.

He's just yelling in the wind. Ackerman has repeatedly said that its never discussed.

Given the league is probably going to finish first in conference RPI this year, I don't really see this changing in the next generation or so.
Who the he!! are you? Do you monitor every NCAA team's message board waiting for waiting for a chance to comment on their comments on big east expansion?
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:05 PM
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So the Creighton AD who happens to be the chairman of the NCAA Division I Basketball Committee is just visiting facilities and talking about this, is just yelling in the wind?

Seems like he's a little too high profile
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:46 PM
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That would make a mockery of the term student athlete for ALL Gonzaga teams. How does a team's players ever go to school when traveling in excess of 2000 miles to play games? Assuming some slight accommodation for travel where the team bunches up it's road games, you are talking about 8/9 cross country trips. I've had to travel for work across country and it takes its toll on you both physically and mentally.

Total selling out of the entire athletic department if it happens and the administration should be called out for not taking the kids (not just basketball but ALL sports teams) best interests to heart. And for what, so their men's basketball team can make the final four? But wait, didn't they make the final four last year? I love college basketball but where does the madness stop?
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
There is no interest from Big East member schools nor leadership for expansion.
Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
there is absolutely no desire of the league membership to expand.
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  #470  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:24 PM
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True, springborofan. I just Google Mapped the distance from Creighton in Omaha (the westernmost of the current BE members) to Gonzaga in Spokane. 1,375 miles. That’s just slightly shorter (by @ 50 miles) than the distance from Creighton to Providence College (the easternmost of the current BE members). So, road trips from Providence to Spokane (or vice versa) would either have to involve air travel or be weeklong affairs, with a round trip from RI to WA being about 5,000 miles. And, if you’re on the women’s Softball team or the men’s Soccer team, well, I hope you like spending a week on a charter bus. And St. John’s, Villanova, and Georgetown wouldn’t have it much better.

Not saying it can’t or won’t happen. Just saying it’s a bad idea if the welfare of the BE student-athletes is of any concern to the powers that be.
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  #471  
Old 03-01-2018, 02:24 PM
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Why the Big East Needs Us

The title of this thread "We need to be in the Big East"

Should be changed to "Why the Big East Needs Us".

The bottom feeders need company .....


We don't deserve to be there, we don't belong there, heck we are having trouble being respected in the A10 right now.

Beat downs by 20 and 30 points and just judging by the scores you can't tell whether it was against a nationally ranked team or a team with a losing record.

These are sad days indeed.

A10 doesn't look like we are too good for the conference, does it?

What might have been ... I thought I saw a burning ember just a few weeks ago in our play and then like a hurricane wind blowing off the Jersey shore ... out it went and everything just got too soaked to light a fire ...
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:04 PM
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Gonzaga is "talking" with the Mountain West about joining next week while the teams are in Vegas. Doug Gottleib tweeted that the Zags are also talking to the Big East for basketball only. Is Dayton on the list? Would Dayton go if invited? It's a blood bath every game. St Johns is 4-13 in the league but could hang with anyone in the country right now. I'd love to see the Flyers come to the Big East.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Source View Post
Gonzaga is "talking" with the Mountain West about joining next week while the teams are in Vegas. Doug Gottleib tweeted that the Zags are also talking to the Big East for basketball only. Is Dayton on the list? Would Dayton go if invited? It's a blood bath every game. St Johns is 4-13 in the league but could hang with anyone in the country right now. I'd love to see the Flyers come to the Big East.
They could probably cause us some issues if we played them next week. Unfortunately we are 13-16 with the competition we faced we could be much worse if we had to face the competition in the BEast.

It's painful to say all this, however pointing out reality was always my strong suit.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:24 PM
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Actually if you look at our record, we played the better teams well and home games well. Our record may have been similar in the BE.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:40 PM
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Last season if you were 9-9 and 7th in the Big East you made the dance.
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Source View Post
Gonzaga is "talking" with the Mountain West about joining next week while the teams are in Vegas. Doug Gottleib tweeted that the Zags are also talking to the Big East for basketball only. Is Dayton on the list? Would Dayton go if invited? It's a blood bath every game. St Johns is 4-13 in the league but could hang with anyone in the country right now. I'd love to see the Flyers come to the Big East.
I hope to heck that Gonzaga moves to the MW, we do not want Gonzaga taking up any of the few precious spots that may be available in the BE.

Come on Mountain West! Git 'er done!
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:41 AM
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ESPN article.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...ce-join-league

The MW only has 11 basketball schools, so adding 1 to get to 12 is a natural fit.

I bet BYU will totally regret leaving the MW in 2011 for the WCC if this happens. What an ironic twist of fate.

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Old 03-02-2018, 11:09 AM
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It certainly sounds like Gonzaga is really itching to get out of the WCC. The Gonzaga AD is openly talking about exploring his options, and Mark Few is publicly criticising the other members of the WCC, other than SMC and BYU.

It sounds like Gonzaga considers the other WCC members to be laggards and essentially leaches.

Hmmm, that sounds familiar.

And I was wrong about BYU, it sounds like the MW would welcome BYU back with open arms.



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...228-story.html:

It is an open secret that Gonzaga has become increasingly frustrated in the WCC, in a sense subsidizing the rest of the conference with financial shares from its 19 straight trips to the NCAA Tournament (last year’s trip to the Final Four fetched $8.55 million). It is the WCC’s largest source of revenue and typically is split evenly among conference members, meaning bottom-feeders get the same cut as the team that earns them.

Gonzaga has been linked several times with the Big East, although travel logistics almost certainly preclude that.

“The Mountain West by its very name is in the West,” Roth said. “Geographically, yeah, there are things that make that different than a discussion with a conference that isn’t here.”

Asked whether playing in a conference with more high-level teams is attractive, Roth said: “That’s without a doubt. I don’t think anybody questions that. If travel and geography weren’t an issue, then that would open up all kinds of possibilities for a school like Gonzaga that has such a high basketball profile. Unfortunately, that mode of transportation isn’t quite there yet. We’ll have to get Star Trek to work on that.”

But it’s not just Roth. Several sources said Bulldogs coach Mark Few is involved in the Mountain West discussions and intrigued by the possibility, particularly if BYU follows. Adding those two schools, and assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels, could elevate the Mountain West to the premier basketball conference in the western third of the country — at least on par if not ahead of the Pac-12.

"Our league needs to really step back and take notice,” Few told the Spokane Spokesman-Review in 2016. “It's time for some of these other institutions to start picking it up. They're really dragging the top three down."
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  #479  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:52 AM
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I still think a three division conference, one division on the East Cost, one on the West coast, and one in the midwest, where you primarily play the teams in your division and play teams on the coast just once or twice to limit travel expenses makes sense. Sort of a mid-major super conference.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:54 AM
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If you've enjoyed this season, keep praying for that BE invite.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:11 PM
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When the Virgin Hyperloop One goes online nationwide in 2054 under President Trump's direction to replace the Eisenhower Interstate System, all of this will be moot as geography will not be an issue. UD then will be free to join the PAC-12 and show the Big East what they missed out on. That'll learn 'em.

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Old 03-02-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
They could probably cause us some issues if we played them next week. Unfortunately we are 13-16 with the competition we faced we could be much worse if we had to face the competition in the BEast.

It's painful to say all this, however pointing out reality was always my strong suit.
If you look at UD's Out of Conference SOS it will show they have a Top 10 SOS (I think they are ranked 2). The team down south has a 33 Non Conference SOS. (they are the highest NBE team)
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Unfortunately we are 13-16 with the competition we faced we could be much worse if we had to face the competition in the BEast.
All things being equal, yes, but all things wouldn't be equal. If we were in the Big East, the situation would be totally different. First and foremost, we would have better players, as it would be easier to recruit better players to the Big East. You have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East unless we were in the Big East.
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Old 03-02-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
All things being equal, yes, but all things wouldn't be equal. If we were in the Big East, the situation would be totally different. First and foremost, we would have better players, as it would be easier to recruit better players to the Big East. You have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East unless we were in the Big East.
And Archie may have stayed.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And Archie may have stayed.
I'm happy Coach Grant is here. I believe this is a destination job for him.

He is the Coach to get us to the Promised Land (Final Four)

Arthur Mueller has moved on.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And Archie may have stayed.
A bit longer, until June, when Thad was canned...
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
If we were in the Big East, the situation would be totally different. First and foremost, we would have better players, as it would be easier to recruit better players to the Big East.
You have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East unless we were in the Big East.
If you have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East, how do you know we would have better players. There is no guarantee of that either. The Great Midwest Conference did not improve our talent level from the MCC. I dont think the Big East move has done all that much to move the talent needle with the likes of Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Nova, etc. Jay Wright made a Final-4 long before the NBE formed. The other teams were recruiting at high levels before the BE move as well.

Aint no Blueitts, Holloways, McDermotts, Korvers, Haywards, Howards, Reynolds, or Stokes that ever came to Dayton in the last 10-15yrs.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If you have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East, how do you know we would have better players. There is no guarantee of that either. The Great Midwest Conference did not improve our talent level from the MCC. I dont think the Big East move has done all that much to move the talent needle with the likes of Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Nova, etc. Jay Wright made a Final-4 long before the NBE formed. The other teams were recruiting at high levels before the BE move as well.

Aint no Blueitts, Holloways, McDermotts, Korvers, Haywards, Howards, Reynolds, or Stokes that ever came to Dayton in the last 10-15yrs.
If you look at the year by year commits on Creighton's recruiting you see a noticeable uptick with them in the Big East. Xavier gets better guys too.

Butler I can't remember off the top of my head but that PG that we were after in the spring Aaron Thompson that decommitted from Pitt. I don't think they're getting him the Horizon league. Matt Howard was the only high profile guy they inked that league

Korver was a nobody from Pella, Iowa and McDermott's own dad didn't think he'd be a contributor.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If you have no way of knowing how we would compete in the Big East, how do you know we would have better players. There is no guarantee of that either. The Great Midwest Conference did not improve our talent level from the MCC. I dont think the Big East move has done all that much to move the talent needle with the likes of Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Nova, etc. Jay Wright made a Final-4 long before the NBE formed. The other teams were recruiting at high levels before the BE move as well.

Aint no Blueitts, Holloways, McDermotts, Korvers, Haywards, Howards, Reynolds, or Stokes that ever came to Dayton in the last 10-15yrs.
Sorry Chris, but the BE has unquestionably, without a doubt improved the talent level of Xavier, Butler, and Creighton, it is quite obvious IMO.

I see the difference very clearly, it is unmistakable.

The players are bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled.

Nothing against the A10, but there is a very real difference.

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  #490  
Old 03-03-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Sorry Chris, but the BE has unquestionably, without a doubt improved the talent level of Xavier, Butler, and Creighton, it is quite obvious IMO.

I see the difference very clearly, it is unmistakable.

The players are bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled.

Nothing against the A10, but there is a very real difference.
You are merely seeing what you want to see..... The Flyers would be the same as thy are now if they suddenly morphed into the Big Least.....
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Old 03-03-2018, 08:47 AM
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Gonzaga + St. Mary's + BYU joining the MWC = Dayton + VCU + Wichita St. joining the AAC.

Both bringing in basketball only schools from lesser conferences to a football dominated league (assuming BYU stays independent in football). The lesser conferences all have institutions that did not share the same commitment to basketball as the departing schools.

If Wichita St., Gonzaga and St. Mary's would consider moving to a football dominated league, what would keep us back?

And would UD and VCU be more attractive to the AAC if the MWC makes this move?
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
You are merely seeing what you want to see..... The Flyers would be the same as thy are now if they suddenly morphed into the Big Least.....

How can you not be believe that our chances of getting better players goes up if we move to a better conference. There's so many reasons why dayton in the BE is more attractive to a potential recruit than the A10.

Would we be at the top of the Big east, probably not; but 8th place in the Big East is a much better team than 8th place in the A10.


Yeah everyone is speaking in hypotheticals, but c'mon the A10 is a hindrance (to what level is debatable); if it wasn't why would butler and xavier leave as soon as possible.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Gonzaga + St. Mary's + BYU joining the MWC = Dayton + VCU + Wichita St. joining the AAC.

Both bringing in basketball only schools from lesser conferences to a football dominated league (assuming BYU stays independent in football). The lesser conferences all have institutions that did not share the same commitment to basketball as the departing schools.

If Wichita St., Gonzaga and St. Mary's would consider moving to a football dominated league, what would keep us back?

And would UD and VCU be more attractive to the AAC if the MWC makes this move?
The MWC TV deal is coming up soon and I'm certain that Gonzaga (which basically put the WCC on ESPN) could help them get better exposure on ESPN and some more money on the deal. In addition when New Mexico (which is on it's way to being back), UNLV get back on their feet that's a nice multibid league.

I don't think it effects the AAC thinking.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:26 PM
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Great article on why UC can't do what Xavier is doing. Mentions that the Big East boosted X's recruiting
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Aint no Blueitts, Holloways, McDermotts, Korvers, Haywards, Howards, Reynolds, or Stokes that ever came to Dayton in the last 10-15yrs.

The question is: Why?

Hayward and Howard, for instance, were recruited when Butler was in the Horizon League. Literally Wright State’s conference...
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:40 PM
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I wasnt originally down with it but i like the AAC idea. You got UC,the Shockers,Houston,UConn,Temple,SMU,Us and VCU, could further springboard our appeal to the NBE
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
I wasnt originally down with it but i like the AAC idea. You got UC,the Shockers,Houston,UConn,Temple,SMU,Us and VCU, could further springboard our appeal to the NBE
I agree, I'm so done with the A-10 free loading schools that welcome us to their HS gyms and using that home court advantage beating us - then feeling vindicated they belong in the conference. I also think there is something that makes the BE reluctant to extend an invite to us (a couple theories on this board from X hating us, to Marquette hating us, to the east coast schools looking down on us, to being a Marianist school, to desiring the larger SLU market, or the Richmond market)...).

The A-10 works only as a relatively easy access to the NCAAT, and the fact we keep 75% of the NCAAT revenue.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
The question is: Why?

Hayward and Howard, for instance, were recruited when Butler was in the Horizon League. Literally Wright State’s conference...
Matt Howard was a rivals 150 guy. He was their lone (to my knowledge) highly rated recruit in the Horizon era.

Hayward and Shelvin Mack (played in the NBA) were under the radar guys. Murray State had two high first round picks recently in Cameron Payne and Isaiah Canaan.

Recruiting at Dayton's level and below is a lot about being able to evaluate and project how guys will develop. That's the bread and butter of guys that win in the one bid leagues.

Brian Gregory spent his whole career at Northwestern and Michigan State. He put a premium on getting guys with athletic ability at the expense of other skills. That and refusing to get transfers/JUCO guys at the start of his career I don't think he knew how to build a program at Dayton's level

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Old 03-03-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
I agree, I'm so done with the A-10 free loading schools that welcome us to their HS gyms and using that home court advantage beating us - then feeling vindicated they belong in the conference. I also think there is something that makes the BE reluctant to extend an invite to us (a couple theories on this board from X hating us, to Marquette hating us, to the east coast schools looking down on us, to being a Marianist school, to desiring the larger SLU market, or the Richmond market)...).

The A-10 works only as a relatively easy access to the NCAAT, and the fact we keep 75% of the NCAAT revenue.
We don't win enough. If St Louis and Dayton the success on the court that Butler, Creighton and Xavier had we'd be in the Big East
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
We don't win enough. If St Louis and Dayton the success on the court that Butler, Creighton and Xavier had we'd be in the Big East
I agree but that’s missing my specific point. “Today” should they expand I’d not for a moment feel confident we’d be invited even coming off a successful run. Today the decision makers are more against us (says my gut) than during the formation of the NBE.
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