UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > UDPRIDE SPORTS FORUMS > Mens Basketball

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:02 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Controversial shot? What's the rule?

Okay, I looked at the prayer shot that banked in, stopped it as close as I could many times to see if he got it off in time. What I believe I saw (and this is just pure bad luck for it to all play out this way) was that the clock was turning to zero when he still had it in his hand and fully turned zero when it MIGHT have left his hand. Is a clock in the process of turning zero the end of the shot clock or is it when the zero is complete on the clock. This is hard to explain but the one is almost faded while the zero is fading in. I still think in all probability he might have had skin on ball when it turned zero, but can't say for sure.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:13 PM
CvilleFlyer CvilleFlyer is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 883
Thanks: 608
Thanked 601 Times in 294 Posts
CvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant futureCvilleFlyer has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, I looked at the prayer shot that banked in, stopped it as close as I could many times to see if he got it off in time. What I believe I saw (and this is just pure bad luck for it to all play out this way) was that the clock was turning to zero when he still had it in his hand and fully turned zero when it MIGHT have left his hand. Is a clock in the process of turning zero the end of the shot clock or is it when the zero is complete on the clock. This is hard to explain but the one is almost faded while the zero is fading in. I still think in all probability he might have had skin on ball when it turned zero, but can't say for sure.
If we had made just a few more free throws that shot wouldn't have been the difference maker! Or, if our guards knew how to get the ball inside to Cunningham we would have won in regulation. He either makes a layup or gets fouled!!!

Yes, even though Crutcher got off a good shot, he is a freshman and I think down low to Cunningham would have been a better option!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:17 PM
shocka43's Avatar
shocka43 shocka43 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 7,284
Thanks: 4,122
Thanked 6,992 Times in 2,977 Posts
shocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond repute
I know you are looking for a rule clarification...

But had you pressured the ball and at least got a hand up...the shot doesn't go in.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (02-05-2018)
  #4  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:17 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
If we had made just a few more free throws that shot wouldn't have been the difference maker! Or, if our guards knew how to get the ball inside to Cunningham we would have won in regulation. He either makes a layup or gets fouled!!!

Yes, even though Crutcher got off a good shot, he is a freshman and I think down low to Cunningham would have been a better option!
That's nice. So the rule is?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:18 PM
shocka43's Avatar
shocka43 shocka43 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 7,284
Thanks: 4,122
Thanked 6,992 Times in 2,977 Posts
shocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond repute
Rollo may be able to answer.. For EOR it is the light on the backboard.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (02-03-2018)
  #6  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:22 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I know you are looking for a rule clarification...

But had you pressured the ball and at least got a hand up...the shot doesn't go in.
I don't think anyone is using the shot as the sole reason we lost or why the shot went in. But for crying out loud, if a guy has to toss a shot fading sideways away from the basket from 35 feet out with his shooting arm motion going from right to left, you can't blame the defense. That's the shot I want to give up any day, hour, minute second. It was pure luck and DD did nothing wrong there.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:29 PM
jpk4ud jpk4ud is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kettering
Posts: 1,321
Thanks: 1,335
Thanked 1,079 Times in 414 Posts
jpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond reputejpk4ud has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I know you are looking for a rule clarification...

But had you pressured the ball and at least got a hand up...the shot doesn't go in.
https://twitter.com/DavidPJablonski/...02947424526344

DD had pressure on the ball was just not trying to make a silly foul at 40' that you would have tore him apart for...
Reply With Quote
6 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to jpk4ud For This Totally Excellent Post:
Bill202 (02-04-2018), Flyer 86 (02-05-2018), ruechalgrin (02-03-2018), San Diego Flyer (02-03-2018), Smitty10 (02-03-2018), Tony T 71 (02-03-2018)
  #8  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:47 PM
ruechalgrin's Avatar
ruechalgrin ruechalgrin is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 3,004
Thanks: 4,109
Thanked 2,721 Times in 1,092 Posts
ruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond repute
It was at zero clearly and still in his hand. Refs missed it. A-10 is low mid-major in quality of streaming, that is what we get. Audio never syncs with video. This is basic high-school stuff. So don't blame the refs, blame the A-10 as s horrific TV/Streaming so refs did not get the same angle Jablonski gave all of us.

But doesn't matter, make some Free Throws (13-22 or 59% not going to get it done on the road) or either Davis comes to play (5-26 from the game shooting) or play Pipkins tough in 1H and this is easy win for Dayton.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:54 PM
MrFlyerFanatic's Avatar
MrFlyerFanatic MrFlyerFanatic is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,987
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 1,567 Times in 687 Posts
MrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeMrFlyerFanatic has a reputation beyond repute
Since the shot clock has no tenth of seconds, my interpretation would be full zero on the clock.
I also defer to Rollo on this without looking up the NCAA rule book.
__________________
"There’s nothing happening in Chicago. I’m going back to Dayton. I’m going back to the Big O.” - K. Pollard
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to MrFlyerFanatic For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (02-03-2018)
  #10  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:10 PM
Buick-Flyer's Avatar
Buick-Flyer Buick-Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
Thanks: 181
Thanked 60 Times in 19 Posts
Buick-Flyer will become famous soon enoughBuick-Flyer will become famous soon enough
Did the refs even have a video of shot? I didn’t see them with a stopwatch so I assumed they did but who knows.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:18 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 884
Thanks: 649
Thanked 649 Times in 312 Posts
TXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
If we had pressured more as the ball was going into the back court, he never would have had time to get across the mid court line to take that shot.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-03-2018, 07:19 PM
jack72's Avatar
jack72 jack72 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 12,371
Thanks: 10,411
Thanked 5,712 Times in 3,248 Posts
jack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond repute
Until it shows zero, there is more than zero, so time left.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-03-2018, 08:09 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BMVSucksPlex
Posts: 12,806
Thanks: 12,725
Thanked 11,369 Times in 5,092 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Rollo may be able to answer.. For EOR it is the light on the backboard.
this...
__________________
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Plato
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-03-2018, 08:10 PM
Chris R's Avatar
Chris R Chris R is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 10,614
Thanks: 1,103
Thanked 11,306 Times in 3,356 Posts
Chris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond repute
We do nothing else other than make our FTs and Pipkins' heave is just a footnote. Had 49 minutes to win so any 35ft nonsense wouldn't matter.
__________________

C. M. Rieman | Publisher | 937.361.4630 | Get the latest here:

Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Chris R For This Totally Excellent Post:
jpk4ud (02-03-2018)
  #15  
Old 02-03-2018, 08:13 PM
jumpin' joe's Avatar
jumpin' joe jumpin' joe is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,083
Thanks: 768
Thanked 2,027 Times in 765 Posts
jumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond repute
The shot clock can be at 29.1 seconds and still show 30. Likewise, the shot clock would still be at 1 second at 0.1 seconds.
IMO, the clock was at zero and it was still in his hands. However, when I hear the horn the ball was already released.
The NCAA rules state that the horn is the deciding factor not the clock.
"Rule 11-2.1.b.4 states in part that officials may use instant replay to "Determine if the ball was released on a try for goal before the sounding of the shot clock horn when the try is successful." This rule can result in an instant replay review in several distinct situations. First, if the official waits until the try is successful and then blows his whistle immediately, he may use instant replay to determine if the ball was released prior to the sounding of the shot clock horn. Second, if the official blows his whistle immediately following the release of the ball for the try because he believes there was a shot clock violation and the shot is unsuccessful, the ball becomes dead and the violation must stand without further review. However, if the try is successful, the ball also becomes dead when the try in flight ends and the official may use instant replay to determine if the try was released prior to the sounding of the shot clock horn."
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to jumpin' joe For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (02-05-2018)
  #16  
Old 02-03-2018, 08:38 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
The shot clock can be at 29.1 seconds and still show 30. Likewise, the shot clock would still be at 1 second at 0.1 seconds.
IMO, the clock was at zero and it was still in his hands. However, when I hear the horn the ball was already released.
The NCAA rules state that the horn is the deciding factor not the clock.
"Rule 11-2.1.b.4 states in part that officials may use instant replay to "Determine if the ball was released on a try for goal before the sounding of the shot clock horn when the try is successful." This rule can result in an instant replay review in several distinct situations. First, if the official waits until the try is successful and then blows his whistle immediately, he may use instant replay to determine if the ball was released prior to the sounding of the shot clock horn. Second, if the official blows his whistle immediately following the release of the ball for the try because he believes there was a shot clock violation and the shot is unsuccessful, the ball becomes dead and the violation must stand without further review. However, if the try is successful, the ball also becomes dead when the try in flight ends and the official may use instant replay to determine if the try was released prior to the sounding of the shot clock horn."
Okay, so the horn being the deciding factor, the refs ruled correctly right? Now the argument could be why the horn was so late but not that the Refs missed it both live and replay.

Just curious, why are posters using this thread to explain that other things cost us the game. I agree, they always do. This is rules question. And if we lost also because Jordan Pierce purposely stomped on Baby D's shooting hand prior to the start of game, sure, I'd like to know that, but it sure doesn't fit this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:30 PM
ud69's Avatar
ud69 ud69 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,372
Thanks: 1,894
Thanked 4,389 Times in 1,949 Posts
ud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond repute
From the NCAA rule book:


Art. 3.
In games when an official uses instant replay to review a potential shot-clock violation as in Rule 11-2-1-b
4, the official shall determine whether a violation occurred by the sounding of the shot clock horn. If the shot clock horn is not audible, the official shall use the reading of zeroes on the shot clock to determine if a shot clock violation occurred. When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands.

---------------
It would seem that the horn is the first determinate. However, by implication, if the shot clock shows a definitive reading of zeros then the shot clock can be used.


Reply With Quote
Mad Props to ud69 For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (02-04-2018)
  #18  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:42 PM
ud2's Avatar
ud2 ud2 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,677
Thanks: 4,106
Thanked 3,328 Times in 2,191 Posts
ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Rollo may be able to answer.. For EOR it is the light on the backboard.
What does EOR mean?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:43 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
From the NCAA rule book:


Art. 3.
In games when an official uses instant replay to review a potential shot-clock violation as in Rule 11-2-1-b
4, the official shall determine whether a violation occurred by the sounding of the shot clock horn. If the shot clock horn is not audible, the official shall use the reading of zeroes on the shot clock to determine if a shot clock violation occurred. When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands.

---------------
It would seem that the horn is the first determinate. However, by implication, if the shot clock shows a definitive reading of zeros then the shot clock can be used.


In that case I'll stick to the opinion that the Refs made the right call because what I saw, or more exact, didn't see, was anything definitive on replay other than the buzzer went off long after the shot. Somehow ruechalgrin did see something definitive but I have to question if he had more to drink than I did or if he was watching with his red and blue glasses on?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:53 PM
T-Bone 84's Avatar
T-Bone 84 T-Bone 84 is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 4,014
Thanks: 2,112
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,285 Posts
T-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
What does EOR mean?
Just a guess: End Of Regulation.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:08 PM
T-Bone 84's Avatar
T-Bone 84 T-Bone 84 is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 4,014
Thanks: 2,112
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,285 Posts
T-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
From the NCAA rule book:


Art. 3.
In games when an official uses instant replay to review a potential shot-clock violation as in Rule 11-2-1-b
4, the official shall determine whether a violation occurred by the sounding of the shot clock horn. If the shot clock horn is not audible, the official shall use the reading of zeroes on the shot clock to determine if a shot clock violation occurred. When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands.

---------------
It would seem that the horn is the first determinate. However, by implication, if the shot clock shows a definitive reading of zeros then the shot clock can be used.


In that case, I have 2 questions, out of sheer, morbid curiosity:
1) Did the replay that the officials used have audio, or video only? And
2) Is the horn synched with the clock, or controlled manually?

If the answer to (1) is “video only”, then they made the wrong call. But if the replay had audio, they may have gotten the call right.
If the answer to (2) is “synched”, then it is what it is. But if the horn is controlled manually, then the home team will always have a chance to do some “cooking” in situations like this.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:17 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
In that case, I have 2 questions, out of sheer, morbid curiosity:
1) Did the replay that the officials used have audio, or video only? And
2) Is the horn synched with the clock, or controlled manually?

If the answer to (1) is “video only”, then they made the wrong call. But if the replay had audio, they may have gotten the call right.
If the answer to (2) is “synched”, then it is what it is. But if the horn is controlled manually, then the home team will always have a chance to do some “cooking” in situations like this.
Posted via Mobile Device
If the horn is manually controlled than it will always be late.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:19 PM
ud69's Avatar
ud69 ud69 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,372
Thanks: 1,894
Thanked 4,389 Times in 1,949 Posts
ud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
In that case, I have 2 questions, out of sheer, morbid curiosity:
1) Did the replay that the officials used have audio, or video only? And
2) Is the horn synched with the clock, or controlled manually?

If the answer to (1) is “video only”, then they made the wrong call. But if the replay had audio, they may have gotten the call right.
If the answer to (2) is “synched”, then it is what it is. But if the horn is controlled manually, then the home team will always have a chance to do some “cooking” in situations like this.
Posted via Mobile Device
To answer -

1) Video only. You never see the refs put on headphones for sound. Therefore, if it is permissible to do a video review for a shot clock violation - and it is - the only reason to do so would be to look for video (shot clock) verification. There is no audio during a video review.

2. Automatically synced

I just think that due to poor camera and video work, the refs had no video of the shooter and shot clock simultaneously. Certainly, nothing that was shown on TV. If they did, based on Jablonski's video, the shot would obviously have not counted.

Last edited by ud69; 02-03-2018 at 10:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:29 PM
Flyer Dave's Avatar
Flyer Dave Flyer Dave is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Centerville,Ohio
Posts: 242
Thanks: 119
Thanked 121 Times in 55 Posts
Flyer Dave is just really niceFlyer Dave is just really niceFlyer Dave is just really niceFlyer Dave is just really niceFlyer Dave is just really nice
Of course there is never a problem with the shot clock...like at the start of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-04-2018, 09:33 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BMVSucksPlex
Posts: 12,806
Thanks: 12,725
Thanked 11,369 Times in 5,092 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Not every gym has red lights around the backboard which is why the rule quoted above refers to 'audible'. Where lighted boards are available, you go with the lights. In games I ref, where lights are available, I don't even listen for the horn because in a lot of cases, the gym is so loud you can't hear it.

I had a game last week where the 'automatic horn' button was turned off! It's a question I always ask the scorekeeper to make sure they aren't doing the horn themselves. In this case she turned it off so the announcer could get the ball rolling on intros and the National Anthem and then forgot to turn it on. I've reffed many games where they turn if off during full timeouts because both teams are back on the court after 30 seconds and everyone is ready to play...so the auto horn button it turned off, she hits the horn to signal 'play' and forgets to turn it back on when the ball is inbounded. The lighted backboard will always work...the horn, 99% of the time. But I don't want to be the official on the court in charge of making a last second shot good/no-good without BOTH working. Which is why you always ask the clock operator to make sure the auto horn is 'on'...even during the game.
__________________
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Plato
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-04-2018, 09:49 AM
Fair34 Fair34 is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dayton,Ohio
Posts: 534
Thanks: 192
Thanked 109 Times in 55 Posts
Fair34 is just really niceFair34 is just really niceFair34 is just really niceFair34 is just really nice
I don't understand this: if they had done this or if they had done that they would have won. The point is: it came down to the one play.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-04-2018, 09:52 AM
bigred's Avatar
bigred bigred is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Woodbourne-Hyde Park, Ohio
Posts: 487
Thanks: 151
Thanked 271 Times in 145 Posts
bigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to beholdbigred is a splendid one to behold
What they should have done (and what they may have done) was measure the time from the inbounds to the time he got the shot off with a stop watch. There was only 7 seconds for them to shoot the ball after the inbounds. Then no need to worry about the camera angle.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-04-2018, 09:58 AM
SLUFLYER SLUFLYER is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,643
Thanks: 1,022
Thanked 865 Times in 411 Posts
SLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond repute
I never saw any replays on the TV that could even help with determining whether he got it off or not, so I have no idea what replays and angles the refs were reviewing.

I believe the rule on the “zero” on the shot clock is that when it hits zero, it is deemed fully zero and is the point of violation.

I am simply thankful that this shot happened against a 10-13 Flyer team and not a bubble Flyer team or one fighting for a protected seed in the NCAA tournament.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-04-2018, 10:50 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BMVSucksPlex
Posts: 12,806
Thanks: 12,725
Thanked 11,369 Times in 5,092 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
FWIW, Larry - on radio - said the shot was legal.
FWIW II, if it takes 5 minutes and 10 camera angles...it's close enough to count.
__________________
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Plato
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-04-2018, 11:39 AM
shocka43's Avatar
shocka43 shocka43 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 7,284
Thanks: 4,122
Thanked 6,992 Times in 2,977 Posts
shocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by jpk4ud View Post
https://twitter.com/DavidPJablonski/...02947424526344

DD had pressure on the ball was just not trying to make a silly foul at 40' that you would have tore him apart for...
You are correct. I misspoke regarding the hand in the face, as I never replayed it. DD had pressure on the shot, I still think the actual lose ball should have been contested. Guy didn't have to work hard to get the loose ball. That gets contested, I don't think it works out the way it did. It was a prayer shot as it was.

Either way, it isn't what lost the game. I have always said that if you leave the game in the officials hands, you are going to be disappointed.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-04-2018, 07:15 PM
jumpin' joe's Avatar
jumpin' joe jumpin' joe is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,083
Thanks: 768
Thanked 2,027 Times in 765 Posts
jumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond reputejumpin' joe has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
To answer -

1) Video only. You never see the refs put on headphones for sound. Therefore, if it is permissible to do a video review for a shot clock violation - and it is - the only reason to do so would be to look for video (shot clock) verification. There is no audio during a video review.

I have seen refs put on headphones for reviews at games. Many times it's probably to talk to the video guy, but review of sound can be available. Why would the NCAA have a rule for audio review of the horn if, as you say, it's video only? The rules clearly states to review audio for the horn first and if it's not available to review the video.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to jumpin' joe For This Totally Excellent Post:
CT Flyer (02-12-2018)
  #32  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:54 AM
Radar Radar is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,164
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 1,469 Times in 709 Posts
Radar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond repute
We should've known...

...from the opening tip that a monitor/horn/lighted backboard would be involved in the outcome of this game (I do not subscribe that the slop shot cost us the game mind you. Listening to the WHIO feed while watching, Larry emphasized after the clock fiasco in the very beginning (and subsequent problems after that), that UMass is THE WORST facility in the A10 when it comes to such things. There is just no attention to detail when it comes to the scorer's table, etc. Are we spoiled at UD Arena because of the many NCAA games hosted? Heck yeah! But every other A10 arena gets it, too...even Fordham!

I now return you to your "why we should be in the Big East thread"...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-05-2018, 03:58 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,135
Thanks: 2,706
Thanked 5,118 Times in 2,357 Posts
longtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond reputelongtimefan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If we had pressured more as the ball was going into the back court, he never would have had time to get across the mid court line to take that shot.
True. Either DD thought it was going to be over-and-back or he was just lazy. He didn't go after the ball with any effort.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-05-2018, 05:09 PM
Smitty10's Avatar
Smitty10 Smitty10 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,334
Thanks: 1,107
Thanked 2,427 Times in 1,279 Posts
Smitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond reputeSmitty10 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
True. Either DD thought it was going to be over-and-back or he was just lazy. He didn't go after the ball with any effort.
Well, if he goes after the ball and doesn't get it, he then loses his man. I'm guessing protocol in that situation is to stay in front of your man.

Seriously though, with all the swiss cheese defense we've seen out of this team, I can't believe anyone is pointing the finger at Baby D. because his man got off a shot put type of shot off 40 feet and right of the basket while his momentum was taking him right. And also close enough that we still can't say definitively whether the shot beat the shot clock. It's this simple though, there was more a chance of Baby D getting called for a phantom foul than that shot going in.

Last edited by Smitty10; 02-05-2018 at 06:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-12-2018, 05:54 PM
CT Flyer CT Flyer is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,091
Thanks: 1,615
Thanked 693 Times in 399 Posts
CT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant futureCT Flyer has a brilliant future
I never weighed in on this earlier but I was at the game and although its hard in live action to make a determination here's what I saw/said. As soon as the refs blew the whistle I said to my wife there is no way he got it off by the time the clock hit zero but he did get it off before the horn sounded. So if the horn is the determining factor then I'd say they got it right. UMass probably needs to have their equipment calibrated.

PS - Such a shame to see a more than half empty arena with about 50 students total at the game. Their new video boards are incredible too. Also noticed much less of a UD presence this year than in the past. I guess that's what losing does to both teams.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-12-2018, 09:43 PM
cj's Avatar
cj cj is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,060
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 3,402 Times in 1,783 Posts
cj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond repute
I may be wrong but when a clock with no tenths of a second are used, when the clock shows 00 there is still 0.9 seconds left, hence the delay between 00 and the horn.
__________________
Give liberals an inch and they will take the country.
Opinions are like swampys, everybody has one.
We're America B!+c#
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.