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  #1  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:08 PM
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Scoochie signs with Cairns Taipans in Australia

Just saw this on the DDN website.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...ChZvx7YCo9cHN/
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:43 PM
TheDuke2003 TheDuke2003 is offline
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If I were an NBA GM, Scoochie is exactly the kind of guy I'd pursue to fill out my bench/reserve PG role. A 4 year player with a good handle that can hit an open shot, but excels in running a set offense. Plug and play depth.

I never get teams that take fliers with 2nd rd picks on 19 year olds who are so raw. Sure there is upside, but the floor is also incredibly low. Especially with the erosion of the little skills that we see because of AAU ball. 6 months of college isn't enough to turn that kind of raw athleticism into game skills.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:25 PM
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How many nba teams run a set offense?
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:31 PM
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NBA championships come from superstars. Look at the winners year-by-year. Since 1980, the 2004 Pistons are probably the only team without a true superstar - built with just a bunch of really good players. If you can't draft them at the top of the lottery or sign them, you have to take fliers on high-upside kids and hope something works out. Sometimes it does.

You gotta fill in the rest of the slots, too, but why draft a Scoochie when you can sign him later?
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
How many nba teams run a set offense?
All of them... they seem to only have 2 set plays though:

1. Pick and roll
or
2. Clearout, and let your superstar go one-on-one
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
All of them... they seem to only have 2 set plays though:

1. Pick and roll
or
2. Clearout, and let your superstar go one-on-one
+ the play for Ray Allen or another superstar catch and shoot guy.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
All of them... they seem to only have 2 set plays though:

1. Pick and roll
or
2. Clearout, and let your superstar go one-on-one
Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
+ the play for Ray Allen or another superstar catch and shoot guy.
Seems that the NBA is too simplistic. No zone defense allowed...no full court pressing defense allowed...no half court trapping defense allowed.

Gets a bit boring watching a guy score 40 points when he is rarely double-teamed.

Favoritism showed to star players by the refs too.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:45 AM
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NBA is turning into professional wrestling. It's all about personality and pre-determined outcomes.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
NBA is turning into professional wrestling. It's all about personality and pre-determined outcomes.
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The Royal 'over/under' on 'flops' by LeBron and Curry, per game, is 4.5.

Take the 'over'.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Seems that the NBA is too simplistic. No zone defense allowed...no full court pressing defense allowed...no half court trapping defense allowed.
All of those things are allowed in NBA. They just don't work as well against the best players in the world which is why they aren't used all that often.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
All of those things are allowed in NBA. They just don't work as well against the best players in the world which is why they aren't used all that often.
Fair enough...can you explain to me how the illegal defense penalty works in the NBA then?
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair enough...can you explain to me how the illegal defense penalty works in the NBA then?
Applies when in man to man D. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defe...cond_violation
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair enough...can you explain to me how the illegal defense penalty works in the NBA then?
Defender can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless actively guarding an offensive player. Same general concept as the offensive 3 second rule.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Defender can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless actively guarding an offensive player. Same general concept as the offensive 3 second rule.
Apparently, the refs in the NBA call a lot of hand-checking fouls too, which limits what the defense can do.

I do not like any limitations on what the defense can do, that is not natural and that deforms the game, and makes it artificial and waters it down and makes it less entertaining and less organic.

Let the defense do anything that they want, and force the offense to be creative and come up with alternative tactics to defeat the defense.





How many of these rules are still in effect now?:


https://www.quora.com/What-is-illega...nse-in-the-NBA



Most of the answers here deal with just the 3 second rule. It is a lot more than that and here is the complete illegal defense rules:
• Zone defense rules clarified with new rules for Illegal Defensive Alignments.
a. Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) for more than three seconds.
b. Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint area).
c. Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.
d. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line.
e. If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line.
f. Defender on cutter must follow the cutter, switch, or double-team the ball.
• After the first illegal defense violation, the clock is reset to 24 seconds. All subsequent violations result in one free throw and possession of the ball. If any violation occurs during the last 24 seconds of each quarter or overtime period, the offended team receives one free throw.

As you can see they are a lot more restrictive than just the 3 second rule. Fortunately most of the above rules have been abolished in today's NBA leaving us with just the 3 second rule (which is probably why people think illegal defense involves just this one rule)
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:50 PM
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If nothing else, the NBA is in the business of entertainment, and in the business of entertainment, a high scoring offensive affair (I don't care what sport you are discussing) will always be more entertaining to the average fan than a low scoring defensive affair. That is why rules in sports are always geared to the offense. A grind it out Wisconsin vs Michigan St affair can be fun, I'll grant you that, but there is nobody that wouldn't mind seeing some early 90s UNLV vs Loyola Maramont affair right now. Hank Geathers and Bo Kimble vs Larry Johnson and Stacy Augmun, yes please.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Apparently, the refs in the NBA call a lot of hand-checking fouls too, which limits what the defense can do.

I do not like any limitations on what the defense can do, that is not natural and that deforms the game, and makes it artificial and waters it down and makes it less entertaining and less organic.

Let the defense do anything that they want, and force the offense to be creative and come up with alternative tactics to defeat the defense.
That's an old complaint from when they switched the hand check rules back in 2004? It was an adjustment, just like NCAA went through back in 2013.

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How many of these rules are still in effect now?:
Just the 3 second rule.
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:58 PM
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The NCAA needs to call the game like the NBA. Whistle hand checks ad nauseam. Call fouls Allow more freedom of movement. Eventually players adjust and play defense with their feet.

Initially games will be very foul prone. After a while it will be a much better game.

Forget which coach it was who said - You want more offense, call more fouls. Let players move.
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
The NCAA needs to call the game like the NBA. Whistle hand checks ad nauseam. Call fouls Allow more freedom of movement. Eventually players adjust and play defense with their feet.

Initially games will be very foul prone. After a while it will be a much better game.

Forget which coach it was who said - You want more offense, call more fouls. Let players move.
Pass, I still like to see some physical defense...well actually I still like seeing some defense being played period. The NBA is boring to me. The reason they do nothing but pick and roll or clear out is because the way it is called. If they actually played defense in the NBA it might be more enjoyable.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:39 PM
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I think that there are nba teams and players who play great defense. but. the stars in the league are almost impossible to stop without fouling them. as an example who is going to stop lebron james from driving the ball to the hoop unless you have a great rim protector. And how many players can stop kyrie or steph curry from getting off a jumper?

there are few college players who play offense at that level. BUt, Scoochie showed some of that ability in the ncaa game this season. I think he has a legit chance of making an nba roster

I think the average nba fan doesn't understand strategy and they want to see dunks and alley oops
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
The NCAA needs to call the game like the NBA. Whistle hand checks ad nauseam. Call fouls Allow more freedom of movement. Eventually players adjust and play defense with their feet.

Initially games will be very foul prone. After a while it will be a much better game.

Forget which coach it was who said - You want more offense, call more fouls. Let players move.
And in the NBA they call like 1 moving screen per game. If they called it like in college it would be called on virtually every play.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:40 AM
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According to Jablonski scoochie to work out for the Mavs today.
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:25 PM
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Haven't heard any workouts for Cooke. Anyone find it interesting Scoochie is getting pre-draft workouts but Cooke isn't? Or perhaps Cooke's just aren't being announced?
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Haven't heard any workouts for Cooke. Anyone find it interesting Scoochie is getting pre-draft workouts but Cooke isn't? Or perhaps Cooke's just aren't being announced?
After what happened between Cooke and Scooch two years ago and his selfishness this year i put my interest level in Cooke on par with the goings on in the Kardashian/Jenner household
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:05 AM
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http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...lqRZXUVSlzgyK/

DAYTON —
Scoochie Smith returned to the University of Dayton campus Thursday for the first time since graduation. Despite the cancellation of his first flight from Dallas in the morning, he hoped to make it to UD in time for a pickup game in the evening with the many alums returning for Reunion Weekend.

Smith, Kendall Pollard, Devin Oliver, Dyshawn Pierre and others will relive the good, old days — which ended less than three months ago for Smith and Pollard — with some games certain to be featured on Instagram this weekend...

From 1 to 3 p.m. Saturday, Smith and Pollard will sign autographs for fans at Milano’s on Brown Street.

“It’s good to come back,” Smith said. “It’ll be a fun time.”
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
After what happened between Cooke and Scooch two years ago and his selfishness this year i put my interest level in Cooke on par with the goings on in the Kardashian/Jenner household
Charles Cooke's play was incredibly unselfish this past season. Assists were up. Created a ton of offense for others. Played very good defense. Efficient offense. He could have taken a lot more shots, and padded his numbers for the NBA but didn't. Say what you want him about him, but his play this year was the epitome of unselfishness.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Charles Cooke's play was incredibly unselfish this past season. Assists were up. Created a ton of offense for others. Played very good defense. Efficient offense. He could have taken a lot more shots, and padded his numbers for the NBA but didn't. Say what you want him about him, but his play this year was the epitome of unselfishness.
Too much one on one. You could tell when he had it in his mind before the first dribble he was driving to 12 feet and stopping and popping. Especially at the end of the year. ArchieBall was built on ball movement and finding the open man. His brand of ball worked, there didn't need to be a Brian Roberts type for it to be a success, see Sibert, Jordan or Oliver, Devin.

Charles was an excellent defender. Charles was a good scorer, in my humble opinion he was not efficient. He was the only one who consistently forced shots in my humble opinion.

Charles was a good player and I'm glad Charles was a Flyer. No one wears more red and blue goggles then me, i just don't think he was a good system fit.

I readily admit his shenanigans his Junior year cloud my opinion of him but my eyes still work and i either saw or listened to every second of Flyer basketball this year. He just wasn't a system player and the disconnect was apparent the second half of those guys Junior season.
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:15 PM
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Say what you want about Cooke, but we probably are in the NIT the last two years without him. Of course, we would still have Archie, but we probably wouldn't want him because he couldn't get us to the NCAA.
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:44 PM
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Most of the time Cooke went 1 on 1, it was at Archies instruction. AM wanted isolation matchups driving to the basket to create contact. Its why we shot a lot of FTs. We ran the exact same plays for Kendall, but Cooke was a better foul shooter and had a mid range shot so it was natural hed get a longer leash.

Cooke did what Archie wanted him to do in the WSU game. Whether that was good strategy is another topic.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:22 PM
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One of the complaints I have heard is that Grant runs a lot of isolation plays. Archie didn't call them all that much comparatively. Without a doubt, our best one-on-one options graduated...
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:01 AM
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I did find that Cooke has met with the Timberwolves and the Clippers.
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:51 PM
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I wish him success, he just didn't seem as good with the ball in his hands as opposed to finding an open spot and moving once he got the pass. His dribbling to me left a lot to be desired. Still, I hope he has success at the next level.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I wish him success, he just didn't seem as good with the ball in his hands as opposed to finding an open spot and moving once he got the pass. His dribbling to me left a lot to be desired. Still, I hope he has success at the next level.
Be careful talking about his dribbling, there are some on this board that get very upset when that is mentioned. I mentioned twice that I thought his lack of handle was what would ultimately keep him from the NBA and I was chastised heavily for saying it.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:54 AM
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Scoochie's working out for the Knicks today per Jablonski.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:31 PM
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Cooke http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...c6FpcWJtFIRXO/
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:46 PM
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FWIW, this mock draft has Cooke going to Utah at #55

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Be careful talking about his dribbling, there are some on this board that get very upset when that is mentioned. I mentioned twice that I thought his lack of handle was what would ultimately keep him from the NBA and I was chastised heavily for saying it.
I think forcing shots was his biggest collegiate weakness.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:13 PM
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So Cooke has worked out with Portland, Utah Jazz, New Orleans, LA Clippers, Minnesota and has a workout with Sacramento coming up.

Scoochie has worked out with Toronto, Dallas and New York.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:19 PM
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I see a role for Cooke in the NBA if he can improve his shot. He has the size to defend and get off a shot and not afraid of contact. I don't think he will be drafted and likely needs another year or 2 to develop his game but he's our best NBA prospect in this years class.

I love SS and he will be remembered as one of UD's greatest college players (and a personal favorite) but I don't think any of his skills are at NBA level. Size, speed, shot, & defense are all ok for college but in the NBA you need at least one area where you are elite.

I am rooting for both and will be following where ever they end up playing professionally.
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KC Flyer View Post
...in the NBA you need at least one area where you are elite.
IMO, it is very difficult to get drafted by a NBA team in the first round, you really have to be an elite, dominant college player in order to get drafted in the first round.

You can have some holes in your game and get drafted in the second round, but you obviously still have to be a good player.

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Old 06-12-2017, 08:51 PM
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#53 to Oklahoma City

https://www.landof10.com/big-ten/2017-nba-mock-drafts
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:17 AM
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"“This is the most fun I've had playing basketball in some years,” Cooke wrote June 2 on Twitter. “God is hcigood."

Sounds like Cooke had as much fun the past couple years as I had watching him.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
"“This is the most fun I've had playing basketball in some years,” Cooke wrote June 2 on Twitter. “God is hcigood."

Sounds like Cooke had as much fun the past couple years as I had watching him.
Can't possibly be that bad!
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Charles Cooke's play was incredibly unselfish this past season. Assists were up. Created a ton of offense for others. Played very good defense. Efficient offense. He could have taken a lot more shots, and padded his numbers for the NBA but didn't. Say what you want him about him, but his play this year was the epitome of unselfishness.
Yep, all 3 of those assists he had in the final 3 games were really impressive. So was his 10 of 33 shooting. If he's drafted into the NBA then you can bet it will be by an organization that doesn't do their homework and isn't very successful.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
yep, all 3 of those assists he had in the final 3 games were really impressive. So was his 10 of 33 shooting. If he's drafted into the nba then you can bet it will be by an organization that doesn't do their homework and isn't very successful.
you mean the ny knickerbockers!!!
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KC Flyer View Post
I love SS and he will be remembered as one of UD's greatest college players (and a personal favorite) but I don't think any of his skills are at NBA level. Size, speed, shot, & defense are all ok for college but in the NBA you need at least one area where you are elite.
I think his ball handling, passing, and finishing are elite. Not first round elite, but NBA level elite.

However as you point out size and speed and shot and defense are all good but not elite. I think he comes up short but not for lack of effort.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
According to Jablonski scoochie to work out for the Mavs today.
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Kevinob15: it looks like the Dallas Mavericks are definitely in the market for a point guard in this year's draft. But, they are reportedly looking at either 6'5" Frank Ntilikina from France (playing for Strasbourg) or Dennis Smith 6'3" from North Carolina State.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I wish him success, he just didn't seem as good with the ball in his hands as opposed to finding an open spot and moving once he got the pass. His dribbling to me left a lot to be desired. Still, I hope he has success at the next level.
I think I must have been nodding off when you made these observations.

Based upon my observations, you are 180 degrees out of phase. IMHO
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:17 AM
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Agree with Gazoo but I don't sell him short on speed for the reason that he always picked it up when he needed. Granted the conditioning needs work to build his stamina for running at an NBA pace but I still think he's got IT. I hope a team gives him a realistic shot.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:15 AM
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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/video/i...per-prospects/
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:20 AM
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[QUOTE=Smitty10;509487]"“This is the most fun I've had playing basketball in some years,” Cooke wrote June 2 on Twitter. “God is hcigood."



Covfefe??
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:02 PM
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[QUOTE=maddog07;509537]
Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
"“This is the most fun I've had playing basketball in some years,” Cooke wrote June 2 on Twitter. “God is hcigood."



Covfefe??
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"In the end we win"? OK, I'll take it

BTW, I know there is no proof that is what it means, but as it pertains to UD, I like it.

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Old 06-14-2017, 05:26 PM
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Hesitate to call it an update, but Dallas Mavs Scout reporter says today that Scoochie scored an invite the night before his workout to see Baby Driver with Harrison Barnes, Devin Harris and Wesley Matthews.

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/s...c-vs-ntilikina
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:32 PM
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Despite his X ties, I always liked Pete Gillen. He was a superb coach and has always spoken highly of the Flyers and the University in general.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:52 PM
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Cooke moves up 23 spots, from #84 to #61, on the nbadraft.net top 100 big board.

IMO, that certainly seems to be within striking distance of getting drafted in the 2nd round, in the first 60 picks.



http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:27 AM
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Cooke projected to be a 2nd rounder, #55, Utah Jazz.

Updated yesterday.


http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:59 AM
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Pretty lengthy article on how the latter stages of the 2nd round are currently all messed up. I only skimmed the article:


https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...-beyond-repair

The Second Round of the NBA Draft Is Broken, But Not Beyond Repair



The latter stages of the 2nd round seem to be pretty complicated and pretty messy.

I have watched the NBA Draft the last few years on ESPN, and ESPN's expert on international players, Fran Fraschilla, is always talking about teams drafting-and-stashing international players in the latter stages of the 2nd round.

As far as I am aware, the prevailing issues going on in the latter stages of the 2nd round are:

1. Teams drafting younger or undiscovered international players in the latter stages of the 2nd round, and then retaining the rights to those players, for the next about 3? years, without having to sign those players to a contract, and without having to invest money and resources into developing that player: Draft-and-stash.

2. Teams do not want to draft domestic players in the latter stages of the 2nd round because they do not want to have to offer them a contract because they do not really believe in the player? And this is a waste of a draft pick?

3. Players not wanting to get drafted in the latter stages of the 2nd round, because those players are better off going undrafted, because then they can pick and choose the team that they have the best chance of making the roster with.

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Old 06-15-2017, 10:11 AM
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Scoochie working out for the Rockets today. He would actually seem to be a good fit there as a third PG.
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  #58  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Scoochie working out for the Rockets today. He would actually seem to be a good fit there as a third PG.
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The Rockets had some really good teams in the late 80s and early 90s with Sleepy Floyd at point guard. Scoochie, the new Sleepy? Seems about right. Anyone know if the video of Scoochie committing to Dayton is still online? For those who don't remember, he didn't bother to get out of bed to do it. No signing announcement. No hype. Just a guy waking up, still a little groggy, making his college announcement in his pajamas with his head still on the pillow. Probably went back to sleep after.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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He did have an official signing too. I let him use those towels to make it look a little more professional.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:23 PM
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My 2 favorite PGs of all time: Johnny Davis and Scoochie Smith
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  #61  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:23 PM
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Cooke #59, San Antonio.

Updated yesterday.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft




Cooke improves 6 spots, #61 to #55.


http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard

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Old 06-16-2017, 01:58 PM
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I really hope Cooke gets drafted. It would be a great tool for recruiting transfers down the line, if you come to UD from another program there is a path to succeed.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:28 AM
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Charles Cooke may have had the best overall combined NBA level talent, athleticism and basketball IQ to ever play for Dayton. It's just tragic that he allegedly crossed the line with the captain and core crew who stuck together off the court which seemed to have ultimately fractured team chemistry. I feel like he was not liked by Pollard Scoochie and Kyle and he emotionally and mentally fell apart down the stretch last year. He seemed to always be on an island as the season wore on and always in isolation mode when he got touches. Baffles me why his shooting percentage took such a dramatic nose dive in conference play and he was a no show in the tourny. His mechanics are Kobe like. Scoochie got the last laugh I guess with his Herculean effort against WSU but it was a Pyrrhic victory. I wish them both the best as professionals.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Flyer View Post
Charles Cooke may have had the best overall combined NBA level talent, athleticism and basketball IQ to ever play for Dayton. It's just tragic that he allegedly crossed the line with the captain and core crew who stuck together off the court which seemed to have ultimately fractured team chemistry. I feel like he was not liked by Pollard Scoochie and Kyle and he emotionally and mentally fell apart down the stretch last year. He seemed to always be on an island as the season wore on and always in isolation mode when he got touches. Baffles me why his shooting percentage took such a dramatic nose dive in conference play and he was a no show in the tourny. His mechanics are Kobe like. Scoochie got the last laugh I guess with his Herculean effort against WSU but it was a Pyrrhic victory. I wish them both the best as professionals.
All your observations are right on target. His numbers dropped after his wrist injury. This is not an injury that you can "play through it". I would bet that his wrist hurt him the remaining portion of the season and post-season (all of one game).
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:01 AM
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Charles Cooke also took that terrible fall where he hurt his hip and back. I forget what game that was? I didn't understand that play at all. It was almost like Charles forgot when he reached out wildly to push the ball to the basket that there was gravity? He reached out and made no attempt to put his feet underneath himself. He dropped like a belly-slapper in a swimming pool onto the hard wooden floor. When it happened, i winced badly and almost felt the fall in my own body. I think his hip bothered him for the rest of the year.

Note: As a true fan, i am allowed to live my life vicariously through the efforts of the players. When they fall and get hurt, the fan feels it too.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Charles Cooke also took that terrible fall where he hurt his hip and back. I forget what game that was? I didn't understand that play at all. It was almost like Charles forgot when he reached out wildly to push the ball to the basket that there was gravity? He reached out and made no attempt to put his feet underneath himself. He dropped like a belly-slapper in a swimming pool onto the hard wooden floor. When it happened, i winced badly and almost felt the fall in my own body. I think his hip bothered him for the rest of the year.

Note: As a true fan, i am allowed to live my life vicariously through the efforts of the players. When they fall and get hurt, the fan feels it too.
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I don't think Charles ever played the same way after his injuries... he was tentative handling the ball, and never again tried to take the ball straight to the hoop for a tomahawk slam (seemed to be mostly all dipsy-do under handed attempts).

Here's hoping he has put his injuries behind him, and starts playing without fear again (was gonna say he should start playing with "reckless abandon" again, but that just doesn't sound right).
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Since this has become the default 2017 NBA Draft Thread - update from NBAdraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

They have taken Cooke off their mock. I don't think either guy will get drafted. I expect to see them both in the summer league. They will get their chance.

Would be great to see one of them get drafted though...
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:49 PM
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I would be shocked if Scoochie were drafted. I thought Cooke might hear his name called in the last 15 picks of the 2nd round but right now it is looking like Utah at number 55 is just about the only hope for him. The Jazz worked him out and they have accumulated a lot of picks (24, 30, 42 and 55) so if they really liked Cooke as a potential practice squad guy, they might take him. None of the other teams he worked out for have late 2nd round picks unfortunately. Seems very unlikely that a team that didn't work him out would draft him. Unless Portland, New Orleans, LA Clippers, Minnesota or Sacramento trade into the late second round, it's pick 55 or bust for Dayton I think.
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Since this has become the default 2017 NBA Draft Thread - update from NBAdraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

They have taken Cooke off their mock. I don't think either guy will get drafted. I expect to see them both in the summer league. They will get their chance.

Would be great to see one of them get drafted though...
I have looked at several mock drafts, and I think only a couple had CC getting picked, so unfortunately, I doubt that he gets picked, but you never know, it only takes 1 team to really like him for it to happen.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Charles Cooke also took that terrible fall where he hurt his hip and back. I forget what game that was? I didn't understand that play at all. It was almost like Charles forgot when he reached out wildly to push the ball to the basket that there was gravity? He reached out and made no attempt to put his feet underneath himself. He dropped like a belly-slapper in a swimming pool onto the hard wooden floor. When it happened, i winced badly and almost felt the fall in my own body. I think his hip bothered him for the rest of the year.

Note: As a true fan, i am allowed to live my life vicariously through the efforts of the players. When they fall and get hurt, the fan feels it too.
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I was at that game as well and it was not the first time that CC defied gravity! It seemed like Archie gave CC free reign to do whatever possible to score the ball which possibly encouraged Cooke to play recklessly thinking he was helping the team when, in actuality, he was hurting the team.

Now, I would like to get this thread back on topic! Scoochie is one of my all time favorite players and I think Archie did him a disservice, almost to a fault, by encouraging him to pass first (realizing that is what a PG is supposed to do) but not telling him to look for his own shot unless he needed to late in a game to guarantee a win!

I attended the Davidson game since my son lives in Charlotte and I have never seen anyone take over a game like Scoochie did in the overtime's 5 minutes and I wondered to myself after that game how many points would Scoochie average if he played that type of game for 36 minutes? At least 18, perhaps 20!

Now, if Archie would have given Scoochie the same green light and encouraged him to devote himself to becoming a better defender his stock would be higher for todays NBA draft. I believe at least mid-second round!

When the results are in I'm sure we all hope the future is bright for Scoochie because he gave all Flyer fans their money's worth for four years in a row!
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Since this has become the default 2017 NBA Draft Thread - update from NBAdraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

They have taken Cooke off their mock. I don't think either guy will get drafted. I expect to see them both in the summer league. They will get their chance.

Would be great to see one of them get drafted though...
They put him back in yesterday...#52 to Washington...ahead of Sumner from Xavier at #55...the X fans will not like that, lol.


http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

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Old 06-22-2017, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
They put him back in yesterday...#52 to Washington...ahead of Sumner from Xavier at #55...the X fans will not like that, lol.


http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
That mock doesn't have nearly enough foreigners in the 2nd round that the teams draft to stash in Europe so they can get the US guys as free agents at a lower price.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
That mock doesn't have nearly enough foreigners in the 2nd round that the teams draft to stash in Europe so they can get the US guys as free agents at a lower price.
Very true.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:21 PM
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It's not even the 2nd round yet and we've already entered the Fran Fraschilla portion of the draft. LOL
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Old 06-23-2017, 06:58 AM
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Cooke agreed to a free agent contract with Minnesota. Congrats to Charles.

https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/sta...08494372589569
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
They put him back in yesterday...#52 to Washington...ahead of Sumner from Xavier at #55...the X fans will not like that, lol.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
Woke up this morning and looked for CC at #52, and guess who's name was there? It's bad karma to gloat early. Charles ended up undrafted, but may have done well with a reloading
T-Wolves franchise that is stacked with young talent now.
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  #77  
Old 06-23-2017, 11:11 AM
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Hate X and love Cooke, but Sumner is a better prospect, especially if he recovers from the injury.

I do not understand all the lower classmen, like Sumner and the Oregon kids, going into the draft to get taken in Round 2.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:14 AM
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Cooke to the Wolves - LOVE IT! My 2 favorite basketball teams coming together. Now he needs to make the team - which he has a chance to do.

Scoochie signed with the Celtics. Best of luck to both of them!
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Cooke to the Wolves - LOVE IT! My 2 favorite basketball teams coming together. Now he needs to make the team - which he has a chance to do.

Scoochie signed with the Celtics. Best of luck to both of them!
I hope one of them make it, then i'll have a reason to root for an NBA team and pay attention before the playoffs again.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
I hope one of them make it, then i'll have a reason to root for an NBA team and pay attention before the playoffs again.
I'm still (patiently) waiting for Josh Benson and his 'NBA body' to make his debut.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
I hope one of them make it, then i'll have a reason to root for an NBA team and pay attention before the playoffs again.
My opinion - Cooke has a significantly better chance to make the team given what we know today.

In Boston - they have a ton of guards under contract (Thomas, Rozier, Smart, Bradley, Jackson) and they drafted a PG last night. Scooch is an all-time favorite of mine, but I think his best chance at the NBA is a great Summer League showing and another team picking him up. Just not sure how he makes the roster in Boston. May have to prove himself this season overseas or in the D-League.

Cooke seems to be in a better situation. As far as wing players go - Wolves have Wiggins and Butler, but after them there is nobody under contract for next year. They could have up to $20M in cap money to spend (if they don't pick up the option on Shabazz and get medical relief from Pekovic's contract) - some of which would certainly be spent on a 3rd wing player who can contribute significant minutes off the bench, but there would be room for a guy like Cooke to provide depth at that spot.
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Old 06-23-2017, 03:57 PM
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I don't get it. Boston has a "ton of guards under contract...." but the Celtics sign Scoochie. Unless I am wrong, he worked out for about five teams but not the Celtics, yet the Celtics signed him. Wonder if any of the teams he worked out for, including the Knicks, made an attempt to sign him. Seems like his options may have been better elsewhere but I wish him the best of success.
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  #83  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
I don't get it. Boston has a "ton of guards under contract...." but the Celtics sign Scoochie. Unless I am wrong, he worked out for about five teams but not the Celtics, yet the Celtics signed him. Wonder if any of the teams he worked out for, including the Knicks, made an attempt to sign him. Seems like his options may have been better elsewhere but I wish him the best of success.
For a majority of these free agent college guys "signing" with NBA teams right now it is simply about their agents finding a situation where they can get playing time in the summer league. In most cases it has nothing to do with actually making that team for the real NBA season. To me it would be much more transparent to say that these players are going to play for (insert team) in the summer league. The summer league lets teams see if they want guys for training camp or their G-league teams, and there are plenty of European scouts watching too.

Somebody let me know when Scoochie or Cooke get invited to a training camp and make a couple cuts. Until then everybody can hold off on buying Celtics and T-wolves gear.
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Old 06-23-2017, 05:47 PM
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Thanks C-time. I certainly understand that the advantage of getting picked up by a team is much better than sitting against the wall waiting for someone to ask you to dance. On the one hand I seem to think that it's a negative if teams you worked out for don't at least come calling now that the draft is over. I understand we don't know whether any of the teams Scoochie worked out for actually did. On the other hand, to be approached the Celtics is certainly a feather in his cap and I hope he succeeds in whatever and wherever he plays.
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Old 06-23-2017, 06:38 PM
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I was wrong about CC being drafted. I own it. I believe Scoochie is the better prospect though. I wish them both the best and I expect Scoochie to make a final cut at some point. Cooke will pass the eye test but he'll never be the finisher that Scoochie is and that will hamper him imo. Defense should get him a spot in the long run.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:18 PM
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Defense is optional in NBA. And I don't buy anyone can get to the NBA without offense first, second, and third. Maybe in the old NBA...
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by keats '91 View Post
Defense is optional in NBA. And I don't buy anyone can get to the NBA without offense first, second, and third. Maybe in the old NBA...
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Tell that to a guy like Tony Allen. He has made almost $40M playing D. He only had one season where he averaged double digit points. But he can guard just about anyone.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Apparently, the refs in the NBA call a lot of hand-checking fouls too, which limits what the defense can do.

I do not like any limitations on what the defense can do, that is not natural and that deforms the game, and makes it artificial and waters it down and makes it less entertaining and less organic.

Let the defense do anything that they want, and force the offense to be creative and come up with alternative tactics to defeat the defense.




How many of these rules are still in effect now?:


https://www.quora.com/What-is-illega...nse-in-the-NBA



Most of the answers here deal with just the 3 second rule. It is a lot more than that and here is the complete illegal defense rules:
• Zone defense rules clarified with new rules for Illegal Defensive Alignments.
a. Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) for more than three seconds.
b. Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint area).
c. Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.
d. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line.
e. If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line.
f. Defender on cutter must follow the cutter, switch, or double-team the ball.
• After the first illegal defense violation, the clock is reset to 24 seconds. All subsequent violations result in one free throw and possession of the ball. If any violation occurs during the last 24 seconds of each quarter or overtime period, the offended team receives one free throw.

As you can see they are a lot more restrictive than just the 3 second rule. Fortunately most of the above rules have been abolished in today's NBA leaving us with just the 3 second rule (which is probably why people think illegal defense involves just this one rule)
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Fans want to see offense. They don't want to watch players with the ball being held and continually fouled. Even the nfl has cut way down on the contact allowed with wide receivers.

The best offensive players in the nba cannot be stopped without fouling. No one player can stop lebron, durant etc

Congrats Scoochie! (forgot the main purpose of this thread). He will be playing for a cerebral coach, someone who appreciates doing things the right way more than most. The celtics have a ton of guards but Ainge said he wanted to make some deals.

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Old 06-26-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
For a majority of these free agent college guys "signing" with NBA teams right now it is simply about their agents finding a situation where they can get playing time in the summer league. In most cases it has nothing to do with actually making that team for the real NBA season. To me it would be much more transparent to say that these players are going to play for (insert team) in the summer league. The summer league lets teams see if they want guys for training camp or their G-league teams, and there are plenty of European scouts watching too.

Somebody let me know when Scoochie or Cooke get invited to a training camp and make a couple cuts. Until then everybody can hold off on buying Celtics and T-wolves gear.
Why would an MLB team draft a shortstop when they've already got one of the best? Many reasons, but, take the best players you can get and use them as trade bait later.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Why would an MLB team draft a shortstop when they've already got one of the best? Many reasons, but, take the best players you can get and use them as trade bait later.
They draft shortstops because they are the best athletes on the team...then they put them where they are needed. Eric Davis is a great example of a shortstop moved to another position.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Why would an MLB team draft a shortstop when they've already got one of the best? Many reasons, but, take the best players you can get and use them as trade bait later.
Kind of comparing apples to oranges here. Baseball players after they are drafted typically go through 3 or 4 years of minor leagues before they are even expected to make an MLB roster. That guy who is the best in baseball could be long gone, on the decline, or even switched positions. When they draft guys for the NBA, most are expected to be a solid bench player right away.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
When they draft guys for the NBA, most are expected to be a solid bench player right away.
Lottery Pick = starter right away or young/raw but projectable as an all-star.
Late First = solid bench
2nd Round or Undrafted = Role Player. Shooter, scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, or defender to slow down opponent's star player.

Charles Cooke is going to be brought in to fill a specific role. Think Chris Johnson. But the thing about Charles Cooke is he is really good in a lot of areas (much more well-rounded than CJ) which makes him a nice D-League call-up option or possibly an NBA bench piece. A coach can use him to plug a lot of different holes.

Eventually, he might even carve out a bigger role. No coach is going to give him that chance initially. But he's talented enough that it wouldn't shock me to see him work his way into being a rotation player if he finds good luck (right fit), stays healthy and puts in the work. Wouldn't shock me to see him never make it either. But it'll be fun to see how it plays out.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
They draft shortstops because they are the best athletes on the team...then they put them where they are needed. Eric Davis is a great example of a shortstop moved to another position.
Not only that (a huge part, though) but it's usually at least 3-4 years even before an 18-20 year old potential great shortstop or other great player even at what seems to be an already stacked position makes it to the majors, whether for just a cup of coffee or long term, and there's no guarantee at all, and usually the chances are quite slim, that even THAT heir apparent at that stacked position will succeed.

Be it injuries, trades, guys that can't hit the curve ball, etc. You can be a "do-it-all' stud in AA/AAA but far different in the BIGS..You simply cannot have enough great athletes that can run, catch, field, and play multiple positions. If you can HIT it's icing on the cake..
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Kind of comparing apples to oranges here. Baseball players after they are drafted typically go through 3 or 4 years of minor leagues before they are even expected to make an MLB roster. That guy who is the best in baseball could be long gone, on the decline, or even switched positions. When they draft guys for the NBA, most are expected to be a solid bench player right away.
I don't know what sports you're playing, but I'm comparing basketballs and baseballs.

I really doubt you were left confused by my post, but if you honestly need the gaps filled in, here goes: unlike baseball where players often require a few years of development to make the show, NBA players are generally ready or not ready at draft time. However, there are exceptions, and the D league is basically dedicated to it. Since there are roster spots to fill and teams to be fielded even if the GM doesn't expect most of these players to ever play a day in the NBA, they can either 1) sign players to create the most well-balanced D league team (and look to win the D league / "pack" the stands) or 2) look to get their hands on the most talented players regardless of position and hope to strike gold with someone who works incredibly hard to make an NBA roster. That person might make your roster, or they might be great trade bait for another team. Picking up guys who have no shot at all of ever making the NBA (lack of athletic ability, size, etc.) doesn't make a lot of sense even if it makes your D league team better, so you might as well fill out your D league team with guys who might just be worth something to your organization someday.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Charles Cooke is going to be brought in to fill a specific role. Think Chris Johnson. But the thing about Charles Cooke is he is really good in a lot of areas (much more well-rounded than CJ) which makes him a nice D-League call-up option or possibly an NBA bench piece. A coach can use him to plug a lot of different holes.

Eventually, he might even carve out a bigger role. No coach is going to give him that chance initially. But he's talented enough that it wouldn't shock me to see him work his way into being a rotation player if he finds good luck (right fit), stays healthy and puts in the work. Wouldn't shock me to see him never make it either. But it'll be fun to see how it plays out.
No way Cooke can play in the NBA! He forces way too many shots, turns it over too much, won't pass the ball, and defense doesn't really matter in the NBA. I simply think Scoochie is a cool name and I like Scoochie more so he will be a NBA starter next year once he gets to training camp and shows up Isaiah Thomas!!!!!!

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Old 06-26-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post

Charles Cooke is going to be brought in to fill a specific role. Think Chris Johnson. But the thing about Charles Cooke is he is really good in a lot of areas (much more well-rounded than CJ) which makes him a nice D-League call-up option or possibly an NBA bench piece. A coach can use him to plug a lot of different holes.
I think being an undrafted D league player is a bit of a curse. If your are drafted and playing in the D league, you were sent there to get some PT. Since you were drafted, the team will keep checking on you. In all but a few cases, most D league players probably would have made more money overseas.
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:18 AM
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Scoochie has signed with an Australian team, the Cairns Taipans.

http://www.espn.com/nbl/story/_/id/2...ith-nbl-season
Cairns Taipans have unveiled a major signing ahead of the looming NBL season with American Dayshon "Scoochie" Smith heading Down Under.
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:33 AM
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"A 187cm point guard out of Dayton University."

Could it be that Dayton U is not an uninformed reference, but merely a metric conversion? My mind is completely blown right now you guys.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:02 PM
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First time I've seen a UD men's player go to Australia to play which is kind of surprising since going to Australia would probably be a much easier adjustment than going to some European countries. Not sure how much he will make but I did find that the NBL has a $1.1 million salary cap which might be why more US players don't go there.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:42 PM
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Well I was wrong about that one. At least in Australia he'll have warm sunny beaches in the north and all the outback to comb for leg..shrug..
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